Hey Sanders supporters. He will only run as a DEMOCRAT. Whaddaya think of that?

[RBInMaine]

Last edited Mon Nov 24, 2014, 05:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Again, I think Sanders is generally great. He has very passionate, strong, and right populist positions.

But, as a declared "socialist" he can not win. Plain and simple.

He is thinking about a run. And he has said he would most likely switch to DEMOCRAT because he knows he can't win as an Indy. So I would like to know if this is a deal breaker for the Sanders supporters. I mean, my goodness, he is SWITCHING from the purity of being an Independent Socialist to becoming a member of the "right wing corporate" Democratic Party because he has said he knows he needs the PARTY help to have any chance at all.

I'd think this would be a complete deal breaker for you. My goodness, joining the unpure PARTY of the Clintons, of Obama, of Joe Manchin and Mary Landrieu... How dare he ! Hmmmm?

[djean111]

1. Policies are deal breakers for me, like, oh, the TPP.

If Sanders runs as a Democrat, he will run as a member of the dreaded Left Wing of the Democratic Party.
Not the Third Way wing. So, it's all good, hmmmmm?

edited to add - I don't think taunting is an effective campaign tactic.......

[davidpdx]

67. You are absolutely right

But they won't listen to you or anyone else. They certainly could approach things differently, but choose to act bitter and divisive.

[roody]

2. Sounds good to me.

[RBInMaine]

10. Ok great. Why does it sound good? I would think the Sanders supporters would be VERY disappointed

that he would shed his "indy socialist" skin and become a member of the dreaded "corporate right wing" Washington Democratic Party.

Do elaborate.

[roody]

15. Because he would make a good president.

He needs to run as a major party candidate to win.

[RBInMaine]

23. But why does he need to run with a major party to win if his ideas are so great?

This is a rhetorical exercise, but I LOVE IT ! I do think most of his ideas are great. But what I want the purists to see is that even their HERO Bernie Sanders is willing to cast off his lifetime of being an Indy "Socialist" to join an organized political party, not because he really wants to, but because he feels he HAS to because the reality of politics that Indies CAN NOT WIN the Presidency (and, rarely, other offices either) outside of a PARTY. There are plenty on the far left who bash the party day and night, but OH NO'S guess what, their hero is now abandoning himself to join a party for the SOLE reason of being able to TRY to mount a credible campaign. Even Bernie is being a pragmatic realist because he knows he wouldn't have a hope in all hell on his own, and he even knows it would be extremely hard even in the party because he'd have to raise millions of dollars, put together a field organization, etc. the likes of which he has never attempted before. So, to the purists who love to bash the Dems I would say, GEE, I GUESS THE PARTY IS LOOKING PRETTY DAMN GOOD THESE DAYS TO YOUR HERO. NOW PLEASE LEARN FROM THIS !

Just gotta love it. Also, not only can Bernie NOT win because all his life he's been a declared Indy Socialist, he will be seen a party carpetbagger opportunist. The R's would shred him to pieces. But I certainly welcome him to the primary and the debate because he is so honest and his populist views are right on most issues.

[otohara]

36. Where Do I Donate To This Indy Party

please provide a link.

[arcane1]

41. Your made-up excuse to taunt people notwithstanding, Sanders has clearly said why he'd be a Dem

And it's quite clear: the Dems already have a 50-state apparatus to work with, that he'd have to assemble from scratch otherwise. It has nothing to do with your phony "Indys can't win" reputation.

Nice try though

[RBInMaine]

81. You are telling me what I already know. You have no problem with this obviously opportunistic move?

I know why he's doing it, but how come the far left purists have no problem with it? That's the question. Why does the far left love to bash the D party and so many members of it, but now its just fine that Sanders is abandoning his lifelong status as an "Indy Socialist" to join a party the far left loves to bash so much? That's the question, and a fair one.

[roody]

53. I'm a registered Green, therefore I

never bash the Democratic Party here at DU. I admire progressive people who participate in Democratic politics with the goal of changing it from within.

[RBInMaine]

82. Good for you. Others do bash the D party though, and it is fair to raise this issue.

[roody]

56. How old are you? Do you remember

John Anderson or Ross Perot?

[RBInMaine]

83. Right. But the question is that PLENTY on the far left bash the D party yet now seem to have no

problem with Sanders joining it for the SOLE purpose of trying to get elected president, and I am just wondering why they have no problem. It is a VERY fair issue to raise and one that will DEFINITELY be raised if and when he runs. Reporters and other candidates will immediately ask why he is suddenly running as a D now when it wasn't good enough before, and this will hurt him with many in the D base.

[aspirant]

77. Whistle while you work

Let's see, the country is 40% registered Indys. So based on that, the ever so righteous Queen Hillary Sachs would never cast off her lifetime of being a dem principled corporatist to woo indys. Now, if she does then she is a sell-out who in reality understands the political process. The repubs will "shred her to pieces" on this and all the heavy baggage she carries. When Bernie denies his DEMOCRATIC socialist principles, then criticize. I am a registered dem and am also a DEMOCRATIC socialist so Bernie is joining lots of his own. You can play your Frank Luntz word game with all your right-wing buddies but it won't work elsewhere.

[merrily]

37. Why would anyone be disappointed?

According to you, the same people who support Sanders supported Kucinich. What did Kucinich run as?

For that matter, what did FDR, HST and LBJ run as?

[LawDeeDah]

76. I don't think you are convincing anyone to convert, in fact, you are doing the opposite.

The more other contestants in the race are scoffed at and the more Hillary is deemed Queen, the more irritated at the inevitable one people get.

[GeorgeGist]

3. Dale Carnegie you are not.

Trash.

[RBInMaine]

9. A question answerer you are not. Answer the question.

[still_one]

4. If Bernie runs as a Democrat, and wins the nomination, who would you vote for?

I have no problem saying I will vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is.

I have to wonder why some seem to be upset that Bernie might run as a Democrat. Whether he wins or loses the nomination is not the point. He will bring a focus to the issues that every candidate should be discussing. With Bernie in the race candidates will be motivated to actually speak to controversial issues instead of hedging like many do, afraid that they might upset some people


Whaddaya think of that?

[RBInMaine]

6. Yes. But you are entirely out of reality if you think he would win the nomination.

He won't have the broad backing needed nor the funds. Ain't gonna happen, much as I do like most of the policies.

What about my question? Why do purists who say the D party is terrible, too right wing,... not care suddenly that Bernie would switch?

Please elaborate.

[stone space]

11. I can see that this OP is directed towards a tiny handful of Sandars supporters.

Why do purists who say the D party is terrible, too right wing,... not care suddenly that Bernie would switch?

Maybe you'll find one or two of them.

Good luck!

[RBInMaine]

22. Ah, there are plenty. Many of these are those who backed Nader and Kucinich. WAY out there.

[stone space]

27. How many have you found so far?

It looks to me like you are the only one here who objects to Bernie running as a Democrat.

[RBInMaine]

32. No, and that just isn't the issue. Can you please try to get it.

I never said I was opposed to him running as a Democrat did I? In fact, I have repeatedly said exactly the OPPOSITE. I have said time and again and will again say now that I WELCOME Bernie to the primary if he decides to run. I have only said I think his chances of winning the nomination, let alone the general election, are about nill. You just are not grasping the issue.

I am asking if Bernie's FLIP FLOP to joining the party, a party which the purists love to often bash, is now having an impact on their purist views around PARTY politics and the Dem PARTY itself. How come purists are not screeching that it is Bernie's IDEAS that should be moving the masses and not a need to join a party? Do you see it now, or do you need further explanation?

Now, please address the actual issue I have raised. The diversions are tiresome.

[stone space]

39. Who else but you is whining about...

...Bernie running as a Democrat?

[merrily]

68. Isn't he or she whining that no one is whining about Sanders' running as a Dem?

[stone space]

69. That seems to be it! (nt)

[aspirant]

78. Why react to a Frank Luntz word game?

[still_one]

13. You obviously have not listened to Bernie. He has NEVER used the phrase that "the D party is

terrible". In fact when he speaks of Hillary or other Democrats, he only speaks about them with the upmost respect, even though he has disagreements on how he would approach various problems in contrast to them.

In fact Bernie is even respectful to his republican adversaries.

As far as Bernie changing parties, did you have a problem with Charlie Crist, going from republican to independent to Democrat?

Most important I have NEVER said the Democratic party is terrible, but I would say it has at times lost its way.

[RBInMaine]

25. You obviously have not read my OP accurately. I NEVER said he has said that. NEVER. I am talking

about his purist backers and their reaction to his abandoning his Indy Socialist status to join an organized party they love to bash all the time as not being pure enough. And that is just the fact.

[stone space]

38. So far, you seem to be only talking about yourself.

I am talking about his purist backers and their reaction to his abandoning his Indy Socialist status to join an organized party

But who knows? Maybe somebody else who cares will pop out of the woodwork.

[aspirant]

79. You mean indy DEMOCRATIC Socialist status

[polichick]

44. Some would like to see the corporate Dem party redeemed.

[stone space]

5. Is this a surprise?

But, as a declared "socialist" he can not win.

You may not vote for him, but I will.

[RBInMaine]

7. It is entirely outside the realms of reality for a declared "socialist" to win a NATIONAL election.

[stone space]

8. Sandars is also Jewish. Can a Jew be elected?

I was told a few times a while back that a Black man couldn't be elected.

[RBInMaine]

19. Diversion. Apples and oranges. Please, answer the question to establish some credibility.

[stone space]

24. What is the question?

I've heard lots of claims like this over the years.

The claim that a Black man cannot be elected President has, of course, been shown false.

But the questions of whether a Jew, or a woman, or a socialist, or an atheist can be elected President is still open, suppose.

But if you really want my answers to these questions, here they are: Yes, yes, yes and yes.

Anything else you need from me?

I mean, apparently, I have to establish some kind of "credibility" here in this thread. Not sure why.

[RBInMaine]

28. The question was, "How do you feel about Bernie abandoning his Indy Socialist status to join a party

that the far left loves to bash all the time, and he is doing it as an opportunist knowing he doesn't have a hope in hell to mount any kind of a credible campaign alone and needs party backing and support. Will this now prevent so many on the far left from spending so much time bashing the party? How do you feel about a guy who takes the major step of joining the party ONLY because he knows he would NEED the party because, I guess, his ideas and message alone wouldn't be enough to carry the day? Will this have an impact on their attitude toward Bernie who is willing to shed some of his own purity to improve his chances of personal political gain? Will it have an impact on their view of party politics and the necessity of it? Will it make them stop and think before they again bash the party when they feel it isn't pure enough?
Hm?

[stone space]

30. Doesn't bother me in the least.

I can see that it bothers you quite a bit.

Oh, well. That's just you.

Have I established my credibility to your satisfaction, yet?

You must know how important it is to me to establish my credibility in your eyes.

I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight if I fail at that.

[Cal33]

12. I'd vote for Sanders, if he runs. I'd vote for Warren before Sanders, if she changes her mind and

runs. I'd vote for Hillary over any Republican.

[think]

14. Bernie represents the party far better than Goldmann Sachs & the TPP does

Making Bernie the "socialist" boogeyman like some people will try very hard to do is just crap.

Bernie is very mainstream on issues and most people wouldn't consider him a "socialist" because frankly he's not one in the classic sense. You won't see him pushing to nationalize the oil companies, the auto industry, etc etc.

Universal healthcare would about as close to socialism as he gets.

And if that's radical socialism then one should look at the over whelming majority of other industrialized nations that have universal health care and see the socialists in our midst.

Yes Bernie will probably lose in the primary but he'll keep the focus on REAL issues and stir the American conciousness. Is this not important?

Obviously if it comes down to voting for the lesser of two evils then you vote for the less evil. Other than that a real choice would be nice.

People are sick of sell outs....

[truebluegreen]

17. Got it in one:

"Bernie represents the party far better than Goldmann Sachs & the TPP does"

And, IMO, far better than Hillary.

[RBInMaine]

20. Fine, but he is a declared "socialist" and couldn't dream of winning the NATIONAL election.

You are trapped inside a very small and tight box if you think he could actually win a national election. Even he has admitted is would be VERY difficult. He would enter mainly to have an impact on the debate which I fully support. But he knows himself that is would be extremely unlikely for him to able to pull it off.

[stone space]

31. That really bothers you, doesn't it?

Fine, but he is a declared "socialist"

[merrily]

34. Not a socialist. A Democratic socialist. Why do you keep doing that?

[arcane1]

43. There is only one possible answer that I can think of to keep doing that:

To undermine and discredit a potential Sanders candidacy.

[merrily]

65. I don't have a problem with honest criticism of Sanders, but

that is not honest criticism.

[davidpdx]

66. Exactly

And several people have been pulling this DU.

[LawDeeDah]

46. That Muslim thing against Obama didn't work so I doubt the Socialist thing against Sanders will

As far as I know.

[arcane1]

51. To be fair, the Muslim thing was a lie, so it may have gotten different reactions.

But I don't think the "S-word" is as scary as some people think. At least, not among people who don't vote republican and aren't complete idiots.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. can he do this?

Ohio: Christie vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 46, Christie 39 Clinton +7
Ohio: Paul vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 49, Paul 40 Clinton +9
Ohio: Bush vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 48, Bush 38 Clinton +10
Ohio: Perry vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 49, Perry 39 Clinton +10
Ohio: Kasich vs. Clinton FOX News Clinton 47, Kasich 43 Clinton +4

[truebluegreen]

18. I think it is a stupid question

from someone who seems to be more interested in labels than policy.

[RBInMaine]

21. You just don't get it do you? Please, try to HEAR this time:

If you bothered to actually read the whole post, I said as I always have, that I agree with Bernie on most policy matters. The undeniable fact is that as a declared "socialist" he simply can not win a national election, and it is perfectly excellent and proper to question his switch to the Dem party from Indy. The far left purists should have a serious problem with
that if they are not being hypocritical because they love to bash the party all the time. Now here is one of their heroes rushing like hell to the PARTY because he knows his chances of gaining ANY traction are slim enough even with the party backing. So which is it? TAKE ON THE ISSUE PLEASE. Is there a problem with Bernie abandoning his "socialist Indy" declaration, a LABEL he has himself embraced, in order to raise his chances of mounting a SERIOUS national campaign by becoming a registered DEMOCRAT for that purpose.

If his policies are so wonderful, why then does he need to become a DEMOCRAT ?? Why won't his staunch backers ANSWER THIS QUESTION DIRECTLY without platitudes and diversions? C'mon. Let's be straight here.

And guess what? "Labels" most definitely MATTER. He will be SMASHED TO PIECES as a declared former "Independent Socialist" because that may play in Vermont, but sure as hell not in Peoria. Welcome to political REALITY in America.

[Tace]

26. I Doubt Your Premise

"The undeniable fact is that as a declared "socialist" he simply can not win a national election."

I simply do not agree with you on this. Although, you keep hammering it. --Tace

[truebluegreen]

29. I guess we'll just have to see, won't we?

The "socialism" label will hurt him...with people that would never in a million years vote for a Democrat. With people who think the party stands for nothing, and who therefore don't vote? The opposite is true. Bernie Sanders could very well revitalize a party in desperate need of it.

Or, the Party could continue on its current path, and expect to reach a different destination. I wouldn't recommend that, myself...and seeing as how this post has 450+ views with 2 recs I might be in the majority. Enjoy your day.

[stone space]

33. 9 years ago it was an "undeniable fact" that a Black man could not be elected President.

The undeniable fact is that as a declared "socialist" he simply can not win a national election

"Undeniable facts" are not all they are cracked up to be.

They just aren't.

[LawDeeDah]

47. Especially a Muslim black man. The media was hard selling that one

and Hillary, in her so not very nuanced ways, fed that crap. and it didn't work.

[stone space]

35. So far you seem to be perfectly alone in your excellent adventure.

and it is perfectly excellent and proper to question his switch to the Dem party from Indy

Nobody else seems to care.

[jeepers]

45. I am going to guess that you are blind in one eye.

In that you lack the ability to see anything in depth.

It could be that the democratic party needs a stronger voice, a socialist voice perhaps to strengthen
the unemployment program, social security, medicare, move ACA closer to single payer and strengthen the social safety net. Bernies issues. Issues you yourself are admittedly in favor of but can't vote for because neither your party nor your candidate put any effort into supporting them.

None of that matters to you I suspect. What does matter is the money and what the men behind the money tell you is doable. Who you can elect and who you can't. Reason and choice are beyond you.

Renouncing his affiliation as a social democrat to run as a democrat tells me that Bernie cares more about the voters and the country than he does about his own ego. It tells me that whether they can see it or not Bernies move to the democratic primary instead of running a divisive third party candidacy is to save the democratic party from the DLC and from republican defeat.

You don't see that do you.

[truebluegreen]

60. Well said.

And welcome to DU.

[noiretextatique]

52. i agree eom

[Tarheel_Dem]

59. Nope. Seems it's Bernie that's "more interested in labels than policy". If not, why switch parties?

[Smarmie Doofus]

40. I like it. On w. the primaries.

>>>I'd think this would be a complete deal breaker for you. My goodness, joining the unpure PARTY of the Clintons, of Obama, of Joe Manchin and Mary Landrieu... How dare he ! Hmmmm?>>>

And Elizabeth Warren, Robert Reich, FDR and Henry Wallace.

What's yer point?

[polichick]

42. He said that months ago - no surprise there.

[20score]

48. This post is an embarrassment.

[neverforget]

49. The Democratic Party also has Merkleys, Frankens, Warrens, and Sherrod Browns. There's room

for Bernie Sanders in the party.

[PAProgressive28]

50. Keep crying

I can't wait to vote for Bernie. He is still undecided on independent/Democrat. But I personally hope he runs Democratic.

[ZombieHorde]

54. He's just using the social construct of the Democratic Party

in order to achieve his goals. I like many of his goals. He's more violent then I like, but I like of lot of his stances.

[Scootaloo]

55. Meanwhile in other news, goats travel local bridge unmolested. n/t

[truebluegreen]

61. Heh. Good one.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. Uh, we think it's what he said a month or three back?

Those of us who are strong supporters have known this for quite some time. Nice that you finally caught up with it, even if only so you could try and be smug about it. Sorry, fail OP.

[democrank]

58. The Democratic Party has different "wings" just like the Republican Party.

I see a 10,000-mile difference between Sherrod Brown and Mary Landrieu, or Elizabeth Warren and Joe Manchin. It`s like comparing night with day or apples to kumquats. The Democratic Party isn`t all "right wing", only part of it is.

Bernie Sanders, based on his stated positions, is closely aligned with progressive/populist/liberal Democrats. We believe in and stand up for the same ideals and the same people. I really don`t think you`ll see Sanders demanding an oil pipeline or more torture sites or fewer rights for the LGBT community or more breaks for banksters. No matter what he runs as or what label people want to affix to him, I welcome his populist ideas and his courage to fight for them.

I wouldn`t waste 3 seconds supporting Mary Landrieu, but I did attend one of Bernie`s free spaghetti dinners once and loved everything I heard. The standing ovations were really uplifting.

[bigwillq]

62. He can run as the Devil, and I will proably still vote for him.

I don't care about which party they list on the ballot.

[cheapdate]

63. I demand an oath to swear no allegiance to the Third Way!

[concreteblue]

64. If this gets me in trouble.....

SO BE IT.
RB, I will say what I am discerning a lot of posters are thinking: THis post is a thinly veiled and ill-thought stab at discrediting Sanders and his supporters on DU, and kind of makes you look like an Idiot.
LET THE FLAME WAR BEGIN!

[merrily]

70. Agree with arcane1. The Op is predicated on a silly premise that you pulled out of your ear.

Based on zero evidence, you say that the same people who support Sanders supported Kucinich. Yet, Kucinich ran as a Democrat. If you are correct, why would the supposedly same people who had zero problem with Kucinich running as a Democrat have a problem with Sanders running as a Democrat?

Such little fact as the OP contains is inaccurate: Bernie has said that there are advantages and disadvantages to running as a Dem, and also advantages and disadvantages to running as an Indie.

And, for the third time, Bernie is a self-described Democratic Socialist who has run as an Indie in several elections and who caucuses with Democrats, not a Socialist.

The Democratic Party no longer even bothers to run anyone against him for the US Senate.

0 for 3

[djean111]

71. Bwahahaha! All this OP needs now is The List and The Chart.

They don't accomplish anything, by the way. And for me, the TPP cancels everything else out. Sorry.

And anyone who thinks jeering at and trashing candidates who are Not Hillary, and supporters of those candidates, could not possibly think that this would engender any more enthusiasm for Hillary than there is now. In fact, this stuff is so off-putting I have begun to question the real motive - is it to drive off liberal/Progressive voters? Who would want to do that? If we are so insignificant that we don't matter, then why all the taunting and such? Doesn't make sense, really.

Also, I have read elsewhere a trial balloon about why have primaries if Hillary is such a shoo-in, save the money for the general election, don't give the GOP any more ammunition.
Never gonna get a buy-in on that. Never.

[arcane1]

73. No way in Hell I'd accept skipping the primaries. That would be a deal-breaker for me.

[Xyzse]

72. If he wins the Democratic Primaries, I'll vote for him.

If he runs as a 3rd Party Candidate, I will vote for the Democratic Candidate, whomever it is.

If he wins, I think that is a great thing.

If he runs in the Primaries, I think it would be a great thing. It would move the conversation to a more progressive end, which I think is important.

[cali]

74. bwahahahahaha. another utterly ridiculous post from you.

[RBInMaine]

80. Typical diversion and insult, but of course no answer to the question. Pretty pathetic.

Only the ultra left seems to think my posts are "ridiculous." They will bash Hillary, bash anyone "unpure," bash the Dem Party, even bash Obama for being too "right wing" and too "corporate" etc etc. But then when I ask why none of these purists are questioning Sanders' opportunistic willingness to abandon his "Independent Socialist" status to join the D party as a hoped vehicle to the nomination, its sheer silence. Why? Isn't that hypocritical? Let's be fair.

Next, it is those who actually think folks like Nader, Kucinich, or Sanders could win a national election who are "ridiculous." Sanders doesn't have the ideological depth, and he is a declared "socialist." Game over for him before he starts, much as I do like his passion and positions on most of the issues. He's a great guy, be ain't going no further than Vermont. Time to get real.

[cali]

84. first of all, the premise of your post is flat out silly. most people who want Bernie to run

want him to run as a democrat for obvious reasons that anyone with a modicum of sense can swiftly discern: 1) He can't engage in the process or be heard as effectively if he runs as an independent- no debates, for example. 2) No one wants to see him in the role of spoiler.

Let's address your the equally absurd claim that you corporo-right wing dems throw up: The "pure" bullshit. Not wanting a corporate hawk for the nominee doesn't equate to having a purity test.

Bernie becoming a dem to run is hardly abandoning his principles. It's abandoning a label. He has long caucused with the democrats.

Finally, one doesn't have to think he can win to think that his running could be very valuable. He says things no one else on the national stage does. That in itself is of value- to have his message reach more people.

And stop with the "he's a great guy" bull. It's amusing that you stick that on to your Bernie hating posts, but it's transparent as a clean window.

Your fear of his running against your adored heroine is what's ridiculous.

[LawDeeDah]

75. one of these things is definitely not like the others:

Clintons, of Obama, of Joe Manchin and Mary Landrieu

The President is a decent man.

[demwing]

85. Maybe you should try harder at this thinking thing

But my goodness aren't you just the little engine that could?

[Derek V]

86. No problems here!

[AtomicKitten]

87. Whaddi think of that?

I think it's awesome.

We should be so lucky.

[Chan790]

88. RB, I don't know if you realize this...

generally us independent Socialist types and Social Democrats (like me) consider it our party and to real-extents view the Manchins and Clintons who run as Democrats to be interlopers. We don't have a problem with Bernie switching parties to run as a Democrat--we have issues, or at-least I do, with Hillary NOT switching parties in order to run as the right-wing corporatist tool she is in the party of right-wing corporatist tools.

Right-wing corporatist tools already have their own party...the Republican party...they don't need ours.


Sincerely,


A Real Democrat for Party Purity.

[Warren DeMontague]

89. Then I think that would mean people could support him on DU and not be breaking the rules.

That's what it means.