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Sun May 3, 2015, 01:22 PM

Bernie Sanders is not afraid to talk about SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE

My hero

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/30/single-payer-cure-healthcare-reform

I start my approach to healthcare from two very basic premises. First, healthcare must be recognized as a right, not a privilege. Every man, woman and child in our country should be able to access the healthcare they need regardless of their income. Second, we must create a national healthcare system that provides quality healthcare for all in the most cost-effective way possible.

Tragically, the United States is failing in both areas..........

46 replies, 5553 views

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Reply Bernie Sanders is not afraid to talk about SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE (Original post)
Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 OP
Doctor_J May 2015 #1
brooklynite Jul 2015 #21
Doctor_J Jul 2015 #24
brooklynite Jul 2015 #25
Doctor_J Jul 2015 #28
Culver Shuttle Jul 2015 #43
Cal33 May 2015 #2
Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #11
Cosmocat May 2015 #13
appalachiablue Jul 2015 #37
Scuba May 2015 #3
Sheepshank May 2015 #4
Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #5
oberliner May 2015 #6
Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #7
oberliner May 2015 #8
Yurovsky May 2015 #9
Evergreen Emerald May 2015 #10
LuvLoogie Jul 2015 #29
libdem4life May 2015 #12
Cosmocat May 2015 #14
Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #16
Cosmocat May 2015 #15
Wolf Frankula May 2015 #17
Rosa Luxemburg May 2015 #18
appalachiablue Jul 2015 #38
BainsBane Jul 2015 #19
Cheese Sandwich Jul 2015 #31
Sheepshank Jul 2015 #20
Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2015 #23
still_one Jul 2015 #27
ljm2002 Jul 2015 #33
still_one Jul 2015 #34
ljm2002 Jul 2015 #35
still_one Jul 2015 #36
mythology Jul 2015 #44
99Forever Jul 2015 #22
still_one Jul 2015 #26
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #30
LWolf Jul 2015 #32
Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2015 #40
LWolf Jul 2015 #41
sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #39
Autumn Jul 2015 #42
Andy823 Jul 2015 #45
Autumn Jul 2015 #46

Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 04:58 PM

1. poor Bernie. He doesn't understand chess or civics or triangles

 

He just thinks we should do what's right.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:05 PM

21. Good for him; now all he has to do is get elected...

...with an electorate that barely thinks ACA is acceptable, much less single payer.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 12:34 AM

24. oh, man. another stalker.

 

I get them from time to time. Almost always from the Reagan wing of the party.

The electorate would like healthcare a lot more than they would like this abomination. But fear not. The corporate psychopaths who you believe should run the country won't let Sanders anywhere near the white house. They much prefer a pro war, pro tpp, anti labor, anti public education, pro spying dino any day, and always get what they want. But it's nice to dream about an actual Democratic president once in a while.

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 12:42 AM

25. Delighted you know the mood of the electorate: care to provide evidence?

I'd be happy with Single-Payer; but I'm honest enough to say that our Congress in 2010 could never pass it because the average voter (who doesn't hang out here) wouldn't support it. And even if you had evidence (which you don't) that there was majority support for Single Payer, there the pesky problem that voters frequently don't vote issues, as opposed to personalities.



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Response to brooklynite (Reply #25)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 01:12 AM

28. at the time that the president signed gingrichcare, almost two thirds of Americans were

 

in favor of Medicare for all. Also he had an enormous amount of political capital after the party's landslide in 2008. IMO the president deliberately tanked the negotiations to pay back big insurance for their campaign contributions, and also to make sure the party got slaughtered in 2010 so he would have cover to enact a republican agenda.

Btw, the post you responded to was from May 8. How far back are you going to be checking my posts?

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Response to Doctor_J (Reply #1)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 10:43 AM

43. Vote for Bernie -- He's not a lying sneak.

 

It's not much of a slogan, but it has the virtue of being true.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sun May 3, 2015, 07:25 PM

2. The rest of the advanced nations in the world all do have the single-payer system or

 

some variation thereof. We are the only exception. What are Democrats here afraid
of? Don't want to make the insurance company execs. angry?

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #2)

Sat May 9, 2015, 06:44 PM

11. Probable donors

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #11)

Sun May 10, 2015, 06:57 AM

13. Donors AND voters

End of the day, their asses are their primary concern like most politicians.

the big money at the top is a big part of it, but if the masses in this country continue to be so willing to buy the stupid ass shit spewed to support the current system and demonize what works best, you aren't going to see the critical mass needed to get this changed.

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Response to Cal33 (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:34 PM

37. It's taken 50 years in this country to get what we have. Canada had universal healthcare in the

40s or 50s like many other countries around the world. Healthcare is not the only area we are failing in, it's public education which is being privatized for profit where we've slipped to no. 16, our degraded infrastructure rates a D, we are no. 2 in our middle class behind Canada, no. 1 for the first time, we have the largest prison population in the world and more major categories where we are declining. Neoliberal economics, free trade and globalization for 40 years- "leveling the field" I think it's called.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 06:56 AM

3. K&R

 

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 01:07 PM

4. HRC did a lot more than just lip service. As FLOTUS.....

 

she put together the package that was delivered to Congress, and got royally ripped apart for her troubles. Not just HRC, but her committee members and all of the hundreds of thousands of hours of work and lobbying. I have no doubt that HCA will move forward and morph under a Democratic Presidency...whether it was HRC or Sanders. Republican candidates are STILL running under the premise of dismantling the whole thing.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #4)

Mon May 4, 2015, 07:50 PM

5. WE just have to convince the voters about single payer

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Mon May 4, 2015, 08:05 PM

6. Sounds like Hillary Clinton circa 1993

 

Glad the country has finally come around.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #6)

Tue May 5, 2015, 10:35 PM

7. What is her view now?

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #7)

Tue May 5, 2015, 10:40 PM

8. I believe she is an Obamacare fan

 

She has certainly spoken in favor of it.

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Response to oberliner (Reply #8)

Wed May 6, 2015, 08:27 AM

9. Is she willing to take a stand now?

The 1993 plan was a step in the right direction, but not single payer. When she comes out in favor of single payer, I'll reconsider her candidacy.

Until then, I'll continue to view her as the spokesperson for the corporate interests who've bankrolled her, and those bastards surely don't want anything that benefits the people.

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Response to Yurovsky (Reply #9)

Thu May 7, 2015, 09:32 AM

10. you are not paying attention

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Response to Yurovsky (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 01:17 AM

29. Good thing Bernie didn't vote for the ACA

and took a stand for Single Payer only! And he got Single Payer over the hump in the United States of Vermont where it is now insuring hundreds of thousands!

All it took was for Bernie to do it! He even got his own bill scored by the CBO in 2010 after he made the rounds on the Tom Hartmann networks rallying the support of a hostile and skeptic public!

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sat May 9, 2015, 10:15 PM

12. Trouble is, insurance companies hold a great deal of investment, not only in their own

 

market which is massive and now global, but they are heavily invested in holdings in real estate, including much of the national debt. Bernie knows that a number of these Too-big-to-fail are insurance companies, perhaps even more powerful than financial institutions. Obama knew that he/we couldn't bail out the financial companies and the insurance companies. IMO.

We're talking possible austerity here. Millions would be unemployed because it's a heavily bloated industry and produces nothing...just paper pushers with rich CEOs, in essence. Easy to say, not so easy to go through. It will take someone like Bernie to guide us through the difficulties.

Europe is starting their own departure from the "easy money/debt splurge" as in Yanis/Tsipris in Greece. Spain and Italy are watching because they, too, have been decimated by the Global lenders, Germany and the US and want out...which will affect our financial behemoths.

Single payer sounds great, and we should have it, but Bernie's bringing it up will have to be accompanied by the realities. It's a House of Cards and that would surely pull one out from the bottom. I still say Go for It, Bernie.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sun May 10, 2015, 07:14 AM

14. A few things

this is why I like Bernie and am leaning toward getting behind him.

He is fortunate enough to be in a district where he can talk like this and not get punished by his voters.

I think people fool themselves into acting like it being as simple as "standing on your principles."

But, as someone else noted, the closest we have gotten to universal was when Hillary put it forward, and she and MANY other democrats got beat up to no end for it, and this was the reason a lot democrats lost their seats in the 94 republican takeover of the House.

Hell, this democratic president and his democratic majority passed what was the REPUBLICAN version of health care reform in 94 in ACA, without one god darned republican vote and history repeated itself, with the american public punishing them and giving the republicans the house in the next mid term.

It is worth getting behind Bernie Sanders because he is right on most of the issues and speaks to them as well as any other politician in the country.

It is a LONG shot that he gets past the deep seated stupidity of the people of this country to be president. But, if he does, he isn't magically changing things. He won't be a king, he will be the president. And, he will will have a flacid party around him and the same kind of craven opposition Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama faced.

He also has not faced even 1/100 of the bullshit he will face if he manages to become a truly viable candidate. Howard Dean was destroyed in a heartbeat, John Kerry was marginalized as a weak coward, Al Gore as an arrogant liar, all while making an entitled moron into a RESOLUTE MAN OF CONVICTION!

You will know he is a real viable candidate when the republicans and their media lap dogs turn their heat on him.

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Response to Cosmocat (Reply #14)

Sun May 10, 2015, 10:14 PM

16. I think

the media and Republicans will mostly ignore him but I think Bernie will never stay silent. He will be great in debates and town hall type meetings. It will interesting what the Democratic Party does.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)


Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Tue May 12, 2015, 01:58 PM

17. The United States Can't Afford Single Payer

Here are the reasons:

1: We have to give generous aid to Israel, so they can have single payer.

2: We have to fund the War on Terror, that is put down Islamic nutcase organizations funded, armed and trained by the CIA.

3: We have to encourage 'regime change' that is have the CIA arm, fund and train NEW Islamic nutcase organizations.

4: We have to defend Europe, which is capable of defending itself.

5: The Navy and Air Force need new somethings. They don't know what, but they know it's going to cost a lot of money.

6: Bunny Billionaire and Lenny Limousine need tax cuts.

7: Lenny Limousine needs a new trade agreement, so more American jobs can be shipped to low wage countries and Lenny will have more money to tell American workers how rich and privileged they are.

8: Small town police forces need main battle tanks and helicopter gunships.

9: Large city police forces need intercontinental bombers and nuclear weapons.

10: The NSA needs a new something to be able to read peoples' minds.

But what ever comes, we can't spend Americans' tax dollars on Americans. That's Communism, or treason or something.

Wolf

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Response to Wolf Frankula (Reply #17)

Wed May 13, 2015, 07:48 PM

18. I hear you!

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Response to Wolf Frankula (Reply #17)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:43 PM

38. +1

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:46 PM

19. Hillary wasn't afraid to talk about single payer either

In fact she worked damn hard to implement it in the early 90s. Who here did anything to make that possible at the time?

Talk is easy. Anyone can talk. Making it happen is another thing altogether.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #19)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 04:09 AM

31. Really? That's not how I remember the Clinton health care plan of 1993...

 

The Clinton health care plan, known officially as the Health Security Act, was a 1993 healthcare reform package proposed by the administration of President Bill Clinton and closely associated with the chair of the task force devising the plan, First Lady of the United States Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Bill Clinton had campaigned heavily on health care in the 1992 U.S. presidential election. The task force was created in January 1993, but its own processes were somewhat controversial and drew litigation. Its goal was to come up with a comprehensive plan to provide universal health care for all Americans, which was to be a cornerstone of the administration's first-term agenda. A major health care speech was delivered by President Clinton to the U.S. Congress in September 1993. The core element of the proposed plan was an enforced mandate for employers to provide health insurance coverage to all of their employees.

...

The Clinton health plan required each US citizen and permanent resident alien to become enrolled in a qualified health plan and forbade their disenrollment until covered by another plan. It listed minimum coverages and maximum annual out-of-pocket expenses for each plan. It proposed the establishment of corporate "regional alliances" of health providers to be subject to a fee-for-service schedule.
...

Meanwhile instead of uniting behind the President's original proposal,other Democrats offered a number of competing plans of their own. Some criticized the plan from the left, preferring a single payer system.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993


That wasn't single payer.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 10:51 PM

20. Hillary didn't just talk...she drafted a plan

 

Presented it to congress over 20 years ago, whe she was FLOTUS.....and she is the true hero here. She was scolded, belittled and shut down as unworthy of making such a demand to all of those white men. Bernie is just mimicking something very great that was started 2 decades ago.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #20)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 12:16 AM

23. but she supports the ACA and has not talked about an alternative in the future

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 01:06 AM

27. please explain to me how single payer would have passed in 2008? Lieberman, Bayh, both Nelsons,

and other blue dogs made it very clear they would not support single payer or Medicare for all. Hell they would not even support Medicare for those 55 and older. They didn't have the votes.

They still don't have the votes, and the layout of Congress is even worse, which indicates because of gerrymandering it won't happen until at least the next census, and even then it will be tough



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Response to still_one (Reply #27)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 04:10 PM

33. One thing is for sure...

...it will never pass until there is someone in a position of power who is willing to fight for it.

Sadly, President Obama was not that person. Yes, the ACA is a big improvement over what we had and I do believe he deserves a lot of credit for getting us that far. But he caved on the public option, trading it away behind closed doors, and many of us at the time were dumbfounded how quickly and how easily he did that. Remember, that was one of the key policies where he had differentiated himself from Hillary Clinton during the primaries.

Also, he and the Democrats did not even allow single payer advocates at the table -- they clearly did not want those dangerous ideas to be discussed openly. That tells me their agenda was not quite in the right place. They were too beholden to the private insurers and did not want to be seen as "unfriendly" to business. IIRC, right about that time one of our major car manufacturers decided to put a plant in Canada rather than in Michigan, in part because they did not have the burden of health insurance for Canadian employees -- but that never got any play during the ACA policy debates. A President who wanted to advocate for single payer could have made a lot of hay with that fact, but our President didn't say a word about it.

It's hard to say what might have happened if someone had advocated strongly for a single-payer system. If the rabid right wing can be successful in persuading people of things that go against their best interests, who's to say that a committed left wing cannot be successful in persuading people of things that are in their best interests? And how will we ever know if we DON'T EVEN TRY?

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #33)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 06:10 PM

34. The President can't pass diddly without Congress. Single payer would never have happened. The blue

dogs and other democrats in Congress made it very clear they would not support it. They did not have the votes, and they had a very limited time to get something.

Whoever becomes President, including Bernie, will not be able to realize it either. Even if every single Democrat in Congress supported it, which they won't, they don't have the votes.

As for your argument that "if only the President would have advocated so single payer, he could have made a lot of hay with that fact", would have gone no where, and only delayed things. They did throw out trial balloons of Medicare for all, and the public option, and that was squashed immediately by the blue dogs. Every republican voted against it, and again the blue dogs, along with Lieberman, Bayh, Nelson in Nebraska, Nelson in Florida, and others were adamant they would NOT support single payer, Medicare for all, or a public option. That is the reality.

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Response to still_one (Reply #34)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 08:34 PM

35. The reality is...

...those on our side did not put up a fight. They did not try to enlist their base to make noise about it.

You can talk about "reality" until you're blue in the face. The fact is, "reality" is changed when people insist upon it.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #35)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 10:01 PM

36. Ok

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #35)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 10:56 AM

44. So in other words, you think they would have folded based on a sternly worded lecture?

 

You haven't actually presented even the slightest bit of evidence on how you suggest getting from Point A, the situation we had before the ACA, to Point B, Single Payer, when even an intermediate step took such an effort.

Even Vermont wasn't able to make that happen with one of the most liberal electorates in the country. Yes the economies of scale would make a nationwide single payer system far more cost-effective than one in just Vermont, but if Vermont wasn't willing to take that step, how do you get people or elected officials from other states to do so?

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:20 PM

22. Bernie pulls no punches.

Even when it slaps the corporate crime families.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 12:59 AM

26. That is fine, and most folks well agree, however, as long as Congress has the make up they

have, I don't care who is President, it isn't going to happen.

I remember the ranting and raving regarding the ACA because "Obama would not give us a public option". The blue dogs, and the republicans were never going to let it happen. They had two years to get something out, and they did. Many at DU were and are still extremely upset with the President about that, yet ironically I have not seen anyone tell us how they could have gotten single payer through, not only then, but now where the make up of Congress is even more twisted.

All the power to Bernie, but single payer is going to take while. Hell, even Vermont couldn't get it started when they tried.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 02:30 AM

30. It isn't acceptable that there are 33 million people still without health care. He is right,

as we know, because that is what we thought we would get if we won it all, which we did. Single Payer is the only way and people should NOT stop pushing for that ever.

I did not support the ACA and won't pretend now that it was anything other than Health Insurance Reform. There are a few good things in it, but one of the worst is that we have middlemen who do nothing for the health of the public, taking approx 20% of Medicaid funds before the get to patient care.

With the government running that program the overhead was 3%. It's a disgrace that this country alone among developed nations runs Health Care for Profit.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #30)

Sun Jul 5, 2015, 03:31 PM

32. Those 33 million...

are those 33 million without insurance, or without care?

I ask, because there are plenty of us with insurance who STILL can't afford care.

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Response to LWolf (Reply #32)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 10:10 AM

40. yes

Although we had a HMO some years ago the insurance would not fund my husband's radiation treatment even though the hospital was in network. Just because it was different from what they were used to. We had a huge battle with them and it was finally authorized.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #40)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 10:26 AM

41. I have insurance.

I always have had insurance. After the premium is paid, though, there's no money left for care, with a $1500 deductible and 20% copay. The only care I get is emergency treatment.

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 01:39 AM

39. Bernie isn't afraid to talk about anything! That's why we love him!

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Original post)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 10:30 AM

42. Healthcare. The ACA is not affordable nor is it healthcare.

Go Bernie, keep on talking.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #42)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 06:05 PM

45. Really?

So far this year my wife and I have saved over $50,000.00 that we would have had to pay out of pocket if not for the ACA, so I highly disagree with you. I paid $1,000.00 out of pocket, which isn't cheap, but it was better than what we would have had to pay without the ACA. Before the ACA we had no insurance for 4 years because we could not afford the high costs. Yes single payer would be much better, but the ACA is far, far better than nothing at all.

I am glad Bernie talks about single payer, but even if he is elected into the WH, it will not come to be. Until congress changes hands, and we get elected officials on both sides who are willing to tackle a real universal health care program, we have to accept what we have, and if it weren't for the ACA passing, millions of us would have no health insurance at all, and that's not acceptable.

How long do you think it would take to actually get a single payer plan into operation if "anyone" elected to the WH tried to do it?

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #45)

Mon Jul 6, 2015, 10:30 PM

46. That's good for you. n/t

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