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Cal33

(7,018 posts)
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:43 AM Jun 2015

It seems clear to me that most supporters of Sanders here at DU would support Clinton, if

she should happen to win in the Primaries. I certainly wouldn't want to see a Republican
win the Presidency in 2016. I was wandering if most supporters of Clinton would do the
same for Sanders, if he should win in the Primaries. Has this latter point ever been
brought up here?

57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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It seems clear to me that most supporters of Sanders here at DU would support Clinton, if (Original Post) Cal33 Jun 2015 OP
Ask yourself this question: Buzz Clik Jun 2015 #1
My guess would be the Clinton supporters, but that still does not answer my question. Cal33 Jun 2015 #2
The reason why I asked was to test the sincerity of your question. Buzz Clik Jun 2015 #3
I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, the Clinton supporters were not exactly very friendly Cal33 Jun 2015 #5
You don't remember correctly. DURHAM D Jun 2015 #8
I don't remember having read any Clinton supporter saying they would not vote for Sanders Cal33 Jun 2015 #13
I would vote for Sanders stonecutter357 Jun 2015 #15
If you are a Clinton supporter but would vote for Sanders should he win in the Primaries, then Cal33 Jun 2015 #17
I've not seen ONE Clinton supporter say they wouldn't vote for the nominee. MADem Jun 2015 #16
+1000 rock Jun 2015 #18
Sanders will not be the nominee so there is upaloopa Jun 2015 #27
To split a minor distinction... Chan790 Jun 2015 #24
Your correct ... Cosmocat Jun 2015 #23
Just a point MuseRider Jun 2015 #34
Well, I AM a Hillary fan, and I see boatloads of bile from too many in the Bernie Sanders camp calimary Jun 2015 #38
Yes, there are Bernie Sanders hardliners here. I have been debating with one the past several Cal33 Jun 2015 #48
Yeah. calimary Jun 2015 #50
Yes and Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2015 #4
Thanks for the info, and I am glad. Cal33 Jun 2015 #6
Try to find a single post in which a Hillary supporter says they will not ... JoePhilly Jun 2015 #7
A poster implied last night that it's a full 20% of you according to polling. Chan790 Jun 2015 #25
Hillary supporters do not expect to lose. upaloopa Jun 2015 #29
Well, this Hillary supporter is hoping that's how it turns out. calimary Jun 2015 #39
Didn't expect it in 08 either. nt awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #41
Do you have a link to the (cough) BS poll (cough) they mentioned? JoePhilly Jun 2015 #35
I just looked...I miscited him. Chan790 Jun 2015 #36
Let's see what happens ... JoePhilly Jun 2015 #37
I think at the end of the day DFW Jun 2015 #9
I hope almost all Democrats will vote for the Democratic candidate come Nov. 2016. Cal33 Jun 2015 #20
There's a difference. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #22
The difference is there, of course DFW Jun 2015 #47
Point taken. AtomicKitten Jun 2015 #49
There's a big difference between earning a vote or getting one by default. Indepatriot Jun 2015 #10
I doubt you'll change your mind, but I see some things differently... Sancho Jun 2015 #19
I think it's and interesting thread. Sancho Jun 2015 #11
I think Bernie is too decent a person to revert to being an Independent late in the game. He and Cal33 Jun 2015 #21
EXCELLENT points you make, Sancho. calimary Jun 2015 #43
Holy shit. Arkana Jun 2015 #12
my first choice is Bernie Sanders John_Doe80004 Jun 2015 #14
Thank you John_Doe80004! calimary Jun 2015 #44
Not me. Maedhros Jun 2015 #26
Of course, you'll effectively be doing just that bvf Jun 2015 #45
A lot of Clinton supporters turned PUMA when Obama got the nod. Did most of them just let off peacebird Jun 2015 #28
Oh Good Gawd! There never really was a PUMA! leftofcool Jun 2015 #51
All I know of it was what I read in the media after Obama got the nom, but a wiki search also brings peacebird Jun 2015 #53
I am happy he is running and hope he does well and stays in the applegrove Jun 2015 #30
Considering the alternative (a Republican crazy no matter which one) Clinton is the only acceptable rurallib Jun 2015 #31
What the holy fuck? OilemFirchen Jun 2015 #32
Democrat over republican Clayguy61 Jun 2015 #33
Well, it is Democratic Underground... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #40
And another thought... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2015 #42
No it is not clear most Sanders supporters on this site would support Clinton. hrmjustin Jun 2015 #46
Clinton needs to listen to sanders and Warren UCmeNdc Jun 2015 #52
Hillary will pull a Lieberman if she loses to Sanders yurbud Jun 2015 #54
I don't think so. That's going too far someone who was a Democratic First Lady. She Cal33 Jun 2015 #56
Of course we would support Sanders if he won the primary. musicblind Jun 2015 #55
This is what the primaries are for Marrah_G Jun 2015 #57
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
1. Ask yourself this question:
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:45 AM
Jun 2015

Which group of supporters has been the most vocal, the most abusive on DU: Sanders or Clinton?

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
2. My guess would be the Clinton supporters, but that still does not answer my question.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:49 AM
Jun 2015
 

Buzz Clik

(38,437 posts)
3. The reason why I asked was to test the sincerity of your question.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 10:55 AM
Jun 2015

The Sanders supporters have been horrible to anyone who doesn't join the throng.

I am NOT a fan of Hillary Clinton at all, but if I dare challenge a Sanders fan on any subject, I am quite likely to get a faceful of bile.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
5. I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, the Clinton supporters were not exactly very friendly
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:10 AM
Jun 2015

to the Warren and later the Sanders supporters. The Clinton supporters were here first, and
they looked upon the Warren supporters as late-comers and an annoyance.

Okay, that's in the past (I hope). So, the question still remains unanswered: Would most
Clinton supporters vote for Sanders for President, if he should win in the Primaries?

DURHAM D

(33,054 posts)
8. You don't remember correctly.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:24 AM
Jun 2015

jftr - I have not seen a single Clinton supporter say they would not vote for Sanders. But, many Sanders supporters have said they would not vote for Hillary EVER including the recently PPRed long time poster. If you took the time to actually read the dozens of posts about this you would know your OP is seen as flamebait by those who have been paying attention.

What is your agenda?

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
13. I don't remember having read any Clinton supporter saying they would not vote for Sanders
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 12:08 PM
Jun 2015

either, nor do I remember having read any of them saying they would vote for him. There
are Sanders supporters (among them, I myself) who have stated that they would vote for
Clinton, should she win the Democratic nomination.

And yes, there are some Sanders supporters who have repeatedly stated that they would
not vote for Clinton, and I have been engaged in discussing this issue with one of them
giving him my reasons why he should vote for her. Please look in this same page about
6 inches down for the title, "Bernie Sanders' Caring about people seems to have remained
steady and consistent". (You apparently haven't read any of it).

If you look upon my OP as flamebait, it's your privilege. My point is that we should
all do our best to get the one we support to become the Democratic nominee for president.
But once the issue has been settled after the Primaries, we Democrats should all stick
together and concentrate our energies in defeating the Republicans in Nov. 2016. It is
still early, and there is enough time to get all Dems. to stick together. But we have to
work at it beginning NOW, and keep working at it, if we are to get any Democrat into
the White House in 2016. Democrats, by definition, have a stronger tendency than
Republicans to have our own opinions. This is usually a good way to be, but there are times
when it can be overdone.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
17. If you are a Clinton supporter but would vote for Sanders should he win in the Primaries, then
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 12:52 PM
Jun 2015

good for you. You are the first one I have come across to state so.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
16. I've not seen ONE Clinton supporter say they wouldn't vote for the nominee.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jun 2015

Not one.

I can't say the same for all the Sanders supporters. Some of the vitriol is strange and leaves me wondering about the sincerity of the more angry fans.

The angry few (and they are just a few, but they are vociferous) don't seem to embody the attitudes of the guy they purport to champion.

One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, though...I prefer to think that most of them will do the right thing if things don't go their way.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
27. Sanders will not be the nominee so there is
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:32 PM
Jun 2015

no reason to bring up the issue.
Of course Bernie people are never lost for some bull shit idea like this one.
Come the day he drops out there will be the five steps that those who have been told they are going to die soon go through.
They are full boat into the denial stage now as your OP points out as does the rest of your posts in this thread.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
24. To split a minor distinction...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:09 PM
Jun 2015

my impression (being one of them) is that a lot of Warren/Sanders/O'Malley supporters were I will never vote for Hillary long before they were supporters of anybody in 2016. For a lot of us, that "No Hillary Ever!" position goes back to before 2008 even, sometimes long-so. (I knew that I hated Hillary Clinton in a way no Republican could ever match back when she was campaigning for the Senate seat for NY. I don't merely personally dislike her...I loathe her continued existence as a political entity.)

So identifying them as Sanders supporters rather than anti-Hillary partisans may be disingenuous. It's attributing the cause to the result rather than vice-versa.

Cosmocat

(15,424 posts)
23. Your correct ...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 02:47 PM
Jun 2015

I am liking Bernie more and more, but, it isn't all of them there are lot of pretty off putting Bernie folks rolling here doing more damage than good for him ...

MuseRider

(35,176 posts)
34. Just a point
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 05:02 PM
Jun 2015

that some of us, and perhaps more than just some, don't want to fight the battles brought around by what you speak of so you are left here with those that make it horrible.

I think most of the people I know who are on the Sanders team don't care for the nastiness because it never had to be that way and some of us had requested that the Sanders group make an effort not to do that. I do believe we are for the most part staying away from this and even staying away from DU because, damn this is not fun or helpful.

So, as much as I like some of the people who are doing this I do not like their tactics at all. It is not time to scorch the earth, it is time to be reasonable and understand that other people have other needs and desires. To trash them repeatedly rather than informing them will backfire. This Goes for BOTH sides The fact that Bernie can stand there and take people poking at him and calmly, for the most part, take them down several notches without being snarky or loud says a lot about how he wants his campaign to roll. It is possible to fight and fight hard without resorting to an all out war. Armed with facts and a certainty that he is right he rolls right over these people who attack him.

The asking for information fiasco that has turned DU into a rather mean place boggles my mind. Since when did, "What does he or she think about something?" become bashing?

Anyway, just my take. I certainly find it all unhelpful, immature and unneeded.

Also, this is just my opinion. It does come from both sides and the more this happens the worse discussion is going to get here. Sadly.

calimary

(90,011 posts)
38. Well, I AM a Hillary fan, and I see boatloads of bile from too many in the Bernie Sanders camp
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jun 2015

who threaten to stay home and pout on Election Day if Clinton's the nominee. They openly assert that they won't play, they won't help, they'll vote on the other down-ticket races but not hers, they won't contribute, or maybe the most they can somehow bring themselves to do is to hold their noses and vote, etc.

Conversely, I have seen very little of that same rigid refusal to compromise demonstrated by anyone in the Hillary camp. Now that I stop and think about it - I can't think of ANYBODY who favors Hillary here, who has NOT ALSO openly and very decisively declared they will be happy to support AND to vote for Bernie Sanders if it winds up being him as our nominee instead of Hillary. I've volunteered that view myself on multiple occasions in multiple posts on multiple threads here. What I have seen so far, and I've been looking, is a very definite lopsidedness.

I'm sorry. It pains me to see this and it pains me to say this, too. But this is what I've begun to notice, here and elsewhere. The Bernie people are ABSOLUTELY rigid and unbending. They're hostile to all things Hillary and can't wait to jump down the throats of anyone who makes a statement in support of her. And often it's not even reasoned but filled with snark, instead. I wrote in another thread about the goddamn pile-on that is just freakin' UNRELENTING here. It's not the Clinton people - it's the Bernie Sanders people who seem to be completely and flatly unwilling to compromise, or if they understand they may need to - they're planning to do so only begrudgingly. I can't think of ONE Hillary supporter here who's dug in his/her heels like that, promised NOT to help, and indeed have threatened to take their ball and go home.

It's really pissing me off.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
48. Yes, there are Bernie Sanders hardliners here. I have been debating with one the past several
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:17 PM
Jun 2015

days giving him my reasons why he should vote for Hillary Clinton, should she win the
Primaries next year. Here's the title of the thread, which can also be found on the
same main page further down:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251410624
(I hope this link works. if not, just look for the title further down the main page
"Sanders' caring about people seems to have remained steady and consistent&quot .

I think there are many more people here at DU who are pro-Sanders than pro-Clinton.
This would help to make the pro-Clinton people feel like they are being jumped on. I also
realize that away from DU in the world out there, the situation is very likely the exact
opposite. But Sanders is making gains. I wonder what things will look like 6 months from
now.

This is to let you know that come Nov. 2016, I'd love to see ALL Democrats voting for the
Democratic candidate, whoever s/he may be. At times like this one, all Democrats should
stick together.

calimary

(90,011 posts)
50. Yeah.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 05:25 PM
Jun 2015

I think that's pretty true - nationally as compared to this DU community. Only last night I was arguing this same case - hoping to convince one of the Bernie people to stay open in case it's Hillary on top at the end - and the responding subject line, unfortunately, started with "Not me."

Can't help but wonder how okay that person will be, "standing on principle," if it means one less vote for the Dem nominee and therefore making it easier for the bad guys to win and take the White House away.

If it's a close election, having too many people like that "on our side" means we're probably SCREWED.

That's exactly the kind of thing the bad guys are hoping and praying to see - and COUNTING ON!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
4. Yes and Yes ...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:06 AM
Jun 2015

HRC supporters have, to a person (that I have seen) stated, in just about every post, that they will support whomever is the Democratic nominee. I have not seen a single self-identified HRC that has indicated that they would not vote for Bernie. (And the same can be said about us un-committed folks).

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
7. Try to find a single post in which a Hillary supporter says they will not ...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:19 AM
Jun 2015

... vote for Bernie in the general if he were to win the Dem primary. I doubt you'd be able to find a single one.

Then, try to find posts from Bernie supporters who say they will never vote for Hillary in the general election were she to win the Dem primary.

Those are easy to find. Simply go to any OP in which "Hillary" is in the title.

You should be able to find one or more such posts, nearly every time.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
25. A poster implied last night that it's a full 20% of you according to polling.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:15 PM
Jun 2015

That some poll says that 20% of Democratic supporters of Hillary said they will not vote for Senator Sanders if he is the nominee because he is too extreme. He didn't like it when I cited it back to him as evidence of the need for a purge of fake Democrats from the party.

**Poster redacted as they are not a participant in this thread and I don't believe in call-outs.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
29. Hillary supporters do not expect to lose.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:41 PM
Jun 2015

Therefore there is no need to talk about voting for Bernie as the nominee. That is my position.

calimary

(90,011 posts)
39. Well, this Hillary supporter is hoping that's how it turns out.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 06:48 PM
Jun 2015

But I don't mind talking about voting for Bernie as the nominee. Not by a long shot! I am proud to assert my willingness to cooperate, compromise, join, and even celebrate the Bernie camp - if he's the one! If HE'S in, I'M in. With BELLS ON. I don't take her presumed win for granted. Nor do I make any claim or assertion that she's the perfect candidate. But I'll be damned if I'M gonna stay home and pout on Election Day. If it's got a "D" by its name, I'm voting for it.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
35. Do you have a link to the (cough) BS poll (cough) they mentioned?
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 05:45 PM
Jun 2015

No need to call them out specifically.

And of course the question was really about DU's Hillary supporters, not the millions of others. I mean, I suspect that Hillary would get the vote of LOTS AND LOTS of moderate Republican women (who would lie to their husbands), and that THEY might not vote for Sanders.

But the idea that ANY Democrat says they'd not vote for Bernie in the General ... that;s some serious nonsense ... on DU for sure ... and probably outside as well.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
36. I just looked...I miscited him.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 06:05 PM
Jun 2015

He said 20% of Democrats said they won't support a ticket with Sanders on it.

I assumed (or imagined) that those Democrats were Hillary Democrats. (concede they could be Reagan Democrats that haven't voted for a Democrat since Carter) He didn't link to the poll in question either. For what it's worth, I think upaloopa has the right of it...a lot of them are people who will end up voting for Sanders if he's the nominee but can't see themselves voting for him because in part they can't see him securing the nomination.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251410797#post30

DFW

(60,182 posts)
9. I think at the end of the day
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:33 AM
Jun 2015

Most Democrats will vote for the Democratic ticket.

There will be plenty of bitterness if the "right" candidate doesn't get nominated, as there was in 2008, but it was plenty obvious that voting someone else or not voting at all is worse. Some will say "not much worse," but they'll be wrong (Vice-President Palin, anyone?).

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
20. I hope almost all Democrats will vote for the Democratic candidate come Nov. 2016.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 02:10 PM
Jun 2015
 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
22. There's a difference.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 02:39 PM
Jun 2015

Some of Sanders' supporters won't vote for Hillary out of a principled opposition to her Third Way record and policies.

Some of Clinton's supporters won't vote for Sanders out of bitterness. They will deny it as they try to run a backhoe over what happened in the 2008 primary. They are jacking themselves up with boastful taunts of inevitability and 'it's her turn,' just like they did in 2008, setting themselves up for regurgitation of the same bitterness.

DFW

(60,182 posts)
47. The difference is there, of course
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 02:17 AM
Jun 2015

I have seen plenty of posts on DU reflecting your first scenario.

I have not seen any posts reflecting your second scenario, although any attitude of inevitability or "her turn" is ridiculous, of course. Except in the case of an incumbent president, a primary should have to be won, not donated on a silver platter.

I hope neither proves to be true in any quantity that flips a state to the Republicans. "President Scott Walker" or "President Jeb Bush" just isn't worth it. That is MY overriding principle.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
49. Point taken.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 04:20 PM
Jun 2015

The second scenario occurs if/when she loses as per the 2008 template.

Traditionally the field waits for the sitting VP to state his intentions, but as we have seen before the Clintons ignore tradition and it becomes all about them. That's pretty disrespectful toward Joe Biden who barring the untimely death of his son was expressing interesting in a possible run. You may recall the idea floated from the Clinton camp about a switcheroo, suggesting VP Biden and Clinton switch jobs during Obama's second term, thereby setting her up for the privilege of a sitting VP, the very privilege she is now disregarding disrespectfully since it's not hers.

Bill Clinton's second term turned out to be a successful legislative era for rightwing GOP legislation. Some of the worst bills were signed during that time. I don't see Hillary as doing anything different. She is a wholly owned subsidiary of Corporate America, something she worked on while SOS stepping on the toes of the Commerce Department. It's pretty much game over for the 99% if either she or any of the GOP candidates wins the White House.

 

Indepatriot

(1,253 posts)
10. There's a big difference between earning a vote or getting one by default.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:34 AM
Jun 2015

I've been a registered independent for over 20 years. I registered as a Democrat in 08 to work on President Obama's campaign. Any candidate must earn my support. Being "next in line" or "inevitable" does not earn my vote. Talking about the evils of Wall Street while filling your war chest with piles of their cash does not earn my vote. Being unwilling to take a stand on TTP does not earn my vote. While I may vote for HRC if she's the nominee I'll do so under duress at the thought of the alternative. This is no way to start a movement or win the White House. I will not phone-bank or travel to other states on my own dime to knock doors for HRC. I will not donate any money to her campaign (Goldman Sachs has that covered) I did all of those things to help get President Obama elected because he inspired me to do so. HRC inspires no such feelings in me. She only inspires dread that once again we will end up with one of the two candidates the Corporate/Media powers that be give us. I'm through with Business As Usual so if HRC wins the White house (which I seriously doubt she can) she may do it with my vote but she will not get my support. There is a HUGE difference. I believe you'll find that many progressives feel the same way and that HRC will not inspire the same grass-roots movement that helped President Obama win the White House. This is why I truly believe HRC cannot win the White House and it scares the hell out of me that she may win the Democratic Nomination. I have two young children and I want to see them grow up in a progressive "Sanders" version of America as opposed to a wall-street determined "Clinton" version.

Sancho

(9,205 posts)
19. I doubt you'll change your mind, but I see some things differently...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jun 2015
Any candidate must earn my support. Being "next in line" or "inevitable" does not earn my vote. Talking about the evils of Wall Street while filling your war chest with piles of their cash does not earn my vote.


After the Koch brothers and friends (Scott Walker, Rick Scott, etc.) proved that BIG money could beat the unions and popular voters - they started to take over. No Democrat has had resources to fight back since the Kennedy's and FDR (who were very progressive). The Clintons figured out how to fight back, but their foundation and PAC's are pretty transparent. Not like the Bushes and Koch's who hide behind shell organizations. Unless we change the law, no Democrat can win with the new money put into the elections unless they raise big bucks. Hillary REPRESENTED NY. She could not, as a Senator, attack her own constituents. Regardless, most retirees, union retirement funds, and international partners do NOT want to dismantle Wall Street.

Hillary and Obama know that putting a few CEO's in jail (like we did with Enron) won't do anything - another clone will step up. Do you really have knowledge that Hillary, who meets with Warren and is "liked" by Sanders is really going to cave to Wall Street any more than Obama? I just read "Sons of Wichita: How the Koch Brothers Became America's Most Powerful and Private Dynasty" by Daniel Schulman. Those are really the enemy to our democracy, not the Clinton's.

Being unwilling to take a stand on TTP does not earn my vote.


Hillary is under oath NOT TO REVEAL what's in the TPP from her days as S0S. It's been reported that she won't sign a trade deal that hurt American jobs. It's also been reported that she and Obama have a deal not to criticize each others' efforts until the primary is over. She said she would take trade deals as they come up one at at time. She has supported some and not supported others. She may have a stand that will be revealed, but the TPP is more of a symbol than reality at this time, because it's not finished and we don't know what's in it. Don't interpret her lack of announcements so far to mean that she doesn't have a position. She probably does.

HRC inspires no such feelings in me. She only inspires dread that once again we will end up with one of the two candidates the Corporate/Media powers that be give us. I'm through with Business As Usual so if HRC wins the White house (which I seriously doubt she can) she may do it with my vote but she will not get my support. I believe you'll find that many progressives feel the same way and that HRC will not inspire the same grass-roots movement that helped President Obama win the White House. This is why I truly believe HRC cannot win the White House and it scares the hell out of me that she may win the Democratic Nomination.


In much of the rest of the country, Hillary is inspiring! 25% of FL was born outside the US. Women all over the sunbelt have been treated as second class on salaries for a long time, and now face crazy medical and choice laws. To women and immigrants from Cl to FL, TX, and even midwestern states, Hillary is the first and only candidate who identifies with them. She will get LOTS of independent and crossover votes from the GOP - who love her stands on a path to citizenship and equal rights for women. Maybe those aren't important in the NE, but it's #1 on issues for millions in middle America. 20 million people with families and kids have been here for years (decades) and can't vote, pay taxes, become lawyers, or anything because they are not citizens. Hillary gets it!

I have two young children and I want to see them grow up in a progressive "Sanders" version of America as opposed to a wall-street determined "Clinton" version.


Since her days in AK, Hillary has been an advocate for day care, preschool, public education, rights for working mothers, and children's medical care. I don't see why anyone with young children wouldn't appreciate those efforts from decades of work. Even the conservative Christians in the Bible belt give the Clinton Foundation credit for the missionary like work it does. Hillary personally has long been a national and international advocate for women, mothers, and education. That precedes her days as a Senator and SOS and now candidate.

In other words, she has been as active for social justice as anyone. My wife and I have almost 40 years as educators. We also have seen lots of good that unions have done in the South where we grew up. Hillary has been a supporter of unions and public schools. Obama has been a disappointment on both.

I would simply ask you to consider if you really know all the facts before dismissing Hilary as a candidate.

http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-and-immigration/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-fighting-for-americas-workers/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-education-for-girls-futures/
http://correctrecord.org/breaking-glass-womens-economic-empowerment/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-a-lifetime-champion-of-income-opportunity-2/
http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clintons-strong-support-of-americorps/

I'm not as convinced that the recent economic crisis "defines" Hillary as much as you do.

Sancho

(9,205 posts)
11. I think it's and interesting thread.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:43 AM
Jun 2015

I have often stated that I would vote for the Democratic candidate.

I believe that Hillary has the best chance to win, but I've been flamed by some Bernie supporters. Even when I try to discuss issues or specific details, I have been accused of just about anything you can name.

OTOH, there have been a large number of unfounded posts I call "bashing". Some were from a now banned NYC_SKP, but others are sill ongoing. If there is a legitimate issue to debate, fine. If there is some imaginary RW conspiracy that has been known for years, has no usefulness, and is repeated on DU, I call that bashing. Even when I confront some of those threads - and it's hard to stay civil, I get attacked personally.

All the Democratic candidates have some things we like or don't like (so does Obama I'm sure); but that's no reason to go crazy. At any rate, I've seen more Bernie supporters say they would never vote for Hillary than any other group. I think the Warren folks, and the O'Malley folks generally agree they will vote for the Democrat.

I'm actually glad that Bernie is running as a Democrat. Hopefully, he would not run as an independent and cost the Democrats the election (like Perot and Nader did the years they skimmed votes from Bush and Gore).

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
21. I think Bernie is too decent a person to revert to being an Independent late in the game. He and
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 02:18 PM
Jun 2015

Warren are the most decent and trustworthy people in the Senate I can think of.

calimary

(90,011 posts)
43. EXCELLENT points you make, Sancho.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:55 PM
Jun 2015

Especially this one:

"At any rate, I've seen more Bernie supporters say they would never vote for Hillary than any other group. I think the Warren folks, and the O'Malley folks generally agree they will vote for the Democrat."

I've noticed that, too. All over DU, and even elsewhere on THIS thread. It is EXTREMELY galling!!!!!

At the same time I have not been able to find ANY Hillary supporters around here who've vowed to dig in their heels like some Bernie Sanders advocates are doing. As a Hillary supporter myself, I have never said that, either. I'm already on record saying I would be utterly delighted to vote for Bernie Sanders if he does win the nomination. I will be repeating that promise probably many times over the next year or so - throughout primary season. If Bernie Sanders does wind up as our nominee, I'm behind him all the way, and with enthusiasm! Besides, he's ALREADY SAID, (yet another of the many things to his credit) that he wasn't going to run as a spoiler (Independent) because he knows what the results of that huge mistake would be. So if HE can do that, why can't all his followers?

I'm sorry - but that rigidity and refusal to compromise and threats of Sore-Loserman-in-Waiting shit has to STOP!!! We have to be UNITED going toward November 2016! We can't afford to have legions of Perfection-or-Bust individuals who stay home and pout on Election Day. Wonder how satisfied they'll be if that sinks our nominee and we get stuck with another CON in the White House.

Arkana

(24,347 posts)
12. Holy shit.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:47 AM
Jun 2015

I love this--Hillary Clinton's name is being filtered to "Lady Inevitable" and Bernie's is being filtered to "The Tragic Idealist".

Thank you, Chrome extension.

John_Doe80004

(156 posts)
14. my first choice is Bernie Sanders
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 12:21 PM
Jun 2015

but if hillary wins the nomination, then i will vote for her. let's face it what the republicans are offering up is much much worse than anything the democrats would put up.

i will say this. it will be a tight race to the nomination between clinton and sanders. even if sanders doesn't get the nomination he is certainly starting off his campaign with giving hillary a good run.

calimary

(90,011 posts)
44. Thank you John_Doe80004!
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 11:57 PM
Jun 2015

I feel the same way. Just switch the names and that's how I feel.

VERY ready to support Bernie Sanders, actively and enthusiastically, if Hillary doesn't make it! VERY ready to do that. I just wish the same kind of cooperative and conciliatory spirit were coming at us Clinton supporters from some in the Bernie Sanders camp.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
26. Not me.
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:16 PM
Jun 2015

I don't want Hillary anywhere near the White House.

I will vote for the candidate that best represents my views. If that's a Democrat, then great. If not, I'm not worried. I will not vote for a candidate whose policies I find abhorrent.

 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
45. Of course, you'll effectively be doing just that
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 12:38 AM
Jun 2015

if Hillary becomes the nominee.

FTR, I'm a staunch Sanders supporter, but I'll be damned if I'll do anything to help give a Republican a voice in the next couple of SCOTUS appointments.


peacebird

(14,195 posts)
28. A lot of Clinton supporters turned PUMA when Obama got the nod. Did most of them just let off
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:38 PM
Jun 2015

Steam and vote Obama after all? I expect the same may hold true now with whichever side doesn't get the nom, but not sure

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
51. Oh Good Gawd! There never really was a PUMA!
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 05:41 PM
Jun 2015

You guys bought that crap hook line and sinker. It was a freeking joke from the get go because I know who set up the web site and who posted in the forum there.............5 people.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)
53. All I know of it was what I read in the media after Obama got the nom, but a wiki search also brings
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 05:57 PM
Jun 2015

This, which sounds a bit more than you are suggesting?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_United_Means_Action

applegrove

(132,207 posts)
30. I am happy he is running and hope he does well and stays in the
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:58 PM
Jun 2015

whole primary. While I don't think he can win the general, I would happily vote for him. But I can't vote, I'm in Canada. Which tells you why I would still be happy if Clinton losses: I don't have to live with the consequences as much of Republicans winning the presidency because I don't live in the USA. That would be a nightmare for you. And I don't want that grave risk to occur. That being said Bernie reminds me of Pierre Trudeau and in an ideal world I would love to see him as President.

rurallib

(64,688 posts)
31. Considering the alternative (a Republican crazy no matter which one) Clinton is the only acceptable
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 03:58 PM
Jun 2015

choice of two. If someone says they would rather let a crazy bastard become president than vote for Hillary, I have little sympathy for them.

As for right now, I prefer Sanders. If Clinton is the nominee, she gets all my support.

Clayguy61

(31 posts)
33. Democrat over republican
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 04:25 PM
Jun 2015

I would vote for ANY democrat over any republican any time and any place. Not voting gives republicans what they want. I am for Sanders and my wife for HRC. We agree and need democrats to support all democrats!

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
40. Well, it is Democratic Underground...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 07:41 PM
Jun 2015

if she wins the primary the vast majority of us will be voting for her. I am sure, that if Bernie wins the same would apply to Hillary supporters.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
42. And another thought...
Thu Jun 11, 2015, 07:50 PM
Jun 2015

I can't wait until "General Discussion- Primaries" is re-opened. That way most of the annoying, loud mouth supporters of both candidates can take (most) of their pissing matches out of GD. There is a minority of supporters of both candidates that are intolerable to be around.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
46. No it is not clear most Sanders supporters on this site would support Clinton.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 01:05 AM
Jun 2015

And every Clinton supporter on this site has said they would support the nominee if it was not Hillary.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
54. Hillary will pull a Lieberman if she loses to Sanders
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 06:27 PM
Jun 2015

And run a an independent.

The will of Wall Street will not be thwarted.

 

Cal33

(7,018 posts)
56. I don't think so. That's going too far someone who was a Democratic First Lady. She
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 08:22 PM
Jun 2015

simply couldn't do such as thing -- regardless of what Wall Street wants.

musicblind

(4,563 posts)
55. Of course we would support Sanders if he won the primary.
Fri Jun 12, 2015, 07:43 PM
Jun 2015

We will all support any democrat that wins the primaries.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
57. This is what the primaries are for
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:56 AM
Jun 2015

You support a candidate....and you might even change your mind during the process. Nothing is set in stone until we have a winner. Then, with a few exceptions, DU will back the winner and work to get them into the White House.

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