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[Bonobo]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Bonobo) on Thu Jul 2, 2015, 08:51 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[canoeist52]

1. Yes, it is a desperate method used when you support no issues that the constituents want or need.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

2. Are you honestly asking if

Some of DU's AA community are race-baiting?

Is that you Karl?

[Bonobo]

3. No, not African-Americans.

More like extremely white people co-opting AA issues in order to slime Bernie Sanders.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

4. Well,

All of those I've seen raise this issue on DU have been members of the AA community. Maybe echoed by non-AAs, but the issue itself was brought up by AAs.

[TM99]

7. I have seen both.

And not all POC agree with the derisiveness of some threads 'expressing concern' when the OP has really very little to do with real concerns.

[Snotcicles]

5. A twist attempt, foiled. nt

[leveymg]

10. Nice twist. Your implication is this: to question the tactic is the same

thing as to call the person who repeats the meme a racist. Not necessarily. It's just a political tactic, and is a version of the old, "your candidate isn't concerned enough about people like us" -- insert ethnic, religious or racial group, regardless of the facts. It's a political smear, and an old one.

Step two in your version of this race-baiting tactic: the person who questions the tactic is some sort of racist if the person who posts the meme is, or pretends to be, a minority.

It doesn't really work that way -- an oldie and goody from the Lee Atwater book of political dirty tricks -- but nice try.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

25. This isn't the first time

This poster has posted something like this. See downthread.

[BainsBane]

73. accusing 1strongblackman of "pretending" to be African American

Is incredibly offensive.
This post of yours yesterday makes clear who you are talking about above. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=16797

What you call a "meme" is in fact a growing concern among people of color, as evidenced by publications on a number of sites. African Americans are the single most reliable voting demographic in the Democratic party, yet their numbers on this site are few. Yet despite that, you accuse one of the few, regular posters, much respected by the broader DU community, of "pretending" to be a black person, despite the fact he has spoken to issues regarding that community for many years now.

Your post is deliberately divisive and incredibly reactionary. You dismiss voters very rights to express concerns and ask questions of candidates, which shows a profoundly anti-democratic and anti-egalitarian ethos that is as far removed from anything resembling leftism as anything I can imagine. If Sanders is to win the nomination and the election, he must field all kinds of questions from various constituencies, and your denying the right of people to do that only hurts his chances and contributes to the perception that his is a narrowly focused movement. More importantly, it speaks to far more serious divisions in American society that delegitimates the voices of people of color. You are talking about a nomination for the DEMOCRATIC party, not the GOP. The majority of Americans have a say in that, no matter how much you resent that fact.

[ismnotwasm]

80. Who are you accusing of "pretending" to be a minority?

[hrmjustin]

87. Pretends to be a minority? Who is pretending?

[HFRN]

6. not race-baiting, but perhaps red-herring

as it presupposes that issues that his issues dont affect multiple races

[winter is coming]

8. I'm not sure I'd call it race-baiting, but it is dishonest and slimy.

And when I see it, I'm reminded of the dog whistles of the '08 primary season.

[LondonReign2]

71. ^ This, exactly

The Rovian attempt to paint Bernie as not concerned with issues of race while simultaneously ignoring the Clinton campaign's racist dog whistles is exactly that, dishonest and slimy.

Reminds me of the Republican tactic in 2004 to mock Kerry's war record and medals while ignoring the Shrub went AWOL from the fucking TANG.

[Agschmid]

9. What a belittling OP.

[OilemFirchen]

11. Yup.

"Feigning" concern.

Fuck that particular noise.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

28. +1 .. n/t

[HooptieWagon]

12. Yes, if they're using a manufactured race "issue" to divide.

The BS is completely made up. Sanders was a civil rights activist, and marched beside MLK back when Hillary was a Goldwater Girl. These claims or "concerns" that Sanders doesn't care about blacks are just a cheap smear job, with no basis in fact.

[Agschmid]

15. They aren't going to be able to divide anyone...

I wouldn't worry about it all that much, just vote for your choice.

However I do find it belittling minimize other feelings/thoughts on a candidate. Everyone is entitled to those and here at DU for the most part they are allowed to share it.

To call it "race baiting" is frustrating.

[sufrommich]

18. Yes,never thought I'd see the term "race baiting" used as a

bludgeon on a democratic board,but here it is.

[JaneyVee]

13. Are you not concerned?

[bettyellen]

82. In behalf of POC, he is so concerned!!!

[sufrommich]

14. This OP is a study in "feigning concern".nt

[Agschmid]

16. Now with 6 recs...

I think people thing they are "winning" something when all they actually are doing is hurting others.

Sticks and stones I guess.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

27. Make that 8 recs.

[BainsBane]

57. which is sad comment

No wonder so few posters of color want to post here. This is supposed to be a place for liberals/leftists/Democrats. And yet people recommend right-wing memes like "race baiting" to discredit the concerns of a huge portion of the Democratic electorate. This after hiding two OPs yesterday by an African American member who dared to express his own concerns.

There is nothing progressive/left/or liberal about holding the political prospects of one man above issues of racial diversity and concerns of portions of the electorate. Nothing. It is very much the opposite.

[BainsBane]

61. What you think about me

does nothing to change your position on an issue, the facts in evidence, or how some are treating members of color who voice their concerns. It only shows how you are unable to defend your position.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

62. You can stop any time now.

Your words are of no value to me. They never will be.

[leveymg]

19. No, the OP is pointing out a political dirty-trick in play here at DU.

The response in the thread above that it's a form of racism to point out the tactic is "feigning concern."

[Bonobo]

21. It's getting complex so let's simplify.

If a white person who does nothing but hate on Bernie Sanders posts about his need to get more support from African-Americans, he/she is:

1. Pretending concern over Bernie Sanders disingenuously, and

2. Taking a patriarchal and patronizing attitude towards African-Americans by thinking he/she needs to speak for them.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

46. Maybe Hillary's team has data to show that the African American vote is moving towards Bernie?

I don't think they would be concerned otherwise.

[bettyellen]

66. Yes, soon worried about POC feeling patronized. Not buying it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. This question or a variation of it was actually posted in the African American forum.

Posted without comment :


http://www.democraticunderground.com/118715991

[Bonobo]

20. Yes, I did post that.

And I stand firmly of the opinion that it is itself borderline racist to USE (I chose that word carefully) racially related issues in order to attack a politician, particularly one with a stellar history of politics and support of people of color.

Let African-American bring up the issue, fine.

But for a white person to pretend that they are concerned and then to use race to divide, it is scummy.

[JaneyVee]

33. Wouldn't "scummy" be...

You pretending that white people concerned about black issues is "scummy"? I mean, do you have proof that these white people are actually not concerned?

[procon]

35. Nonsense.

I'm white. So, I'm "scummy" because I advocate for fairness and equality for my black BIL and his elderly mom, or my lovely nieces? How is standing up for their rights, things that I as a white person take for granted, defined as being divisive?

Tell me I'm only pretending to care about results when I want politicians to actually accomplish changes when it comes to treating everyone in this country with equal dignity and respect, instead of just prancing around like show ponies for the camera.

[bettyellen]

83. Hell of a lot of projection there- thinking white people do not really care. Embarrassed for your

Attempts to divide this community.

[procon]

22. This post is baiting.

While I'm still in the process of learning more about all our great Democratic candidates, its pettiness like this that forces me to look beyond DU for straight info on Sanders and the rise of economic populism.

I am one of those 'concerned' people who wonders why the only issue topics on Sanders website are:
INCOME AND WEALTH INEQUALITY
GETTING BIG MONEY OUT OF POLITICS
CLIMATE CHANGE & ENVIRONMENT


It’s inexplicable to me that many of the key social issues like race, immigration, women's rights, things that have a longstanding record with liberals, activists and Democratic Party policies, are missing from his list of topics. It's a startling omission given that his voting record (On the Issues) is rated very good by the NAACP and NARAL. Maybe these just aren't his priority areas, or his web team is behind getting those points listed, but given all the recent events that have roiled through the news and prompted some ugly political debates in recent months these are vital issues for many Dem voters and he needs to do better to convince me.

[Bonobo]

23. They are not missing from his speeches or his votes or his career or his life. nt

[procon]

39. The average person won't see those things.

Most networks don't carry daily updates on individual candidates. They only get a brief mention when they do something newsworthy, and even then, if you weren't parked in front of your TV at that precise 60 second spot, you missed it. Today, we all rely on the Internet and those who are interested in any political candidate will go to their websites to get the in depth explanation of his views.

[bettyellen]

84. Mostly missing from his campaign and glaringly so from his website-

His own campaign admits it at this point. You think his campaign is wrong about that? Why not write an OP about how his campaign is gaining concern?

[JustAnotherGen]

29. I noticed this too

The limitation of issues on his site.

I've stated several times - if he wins the nomination -

I need a refined list of 'this action - this result'.

That's what works in NJ. When I'm knocking on doors. These are no nonsense folks with long commutes -

I need to be quick in and out.

If I were to direct them to his web site on a Teachers Union/Education issue - I'm going to lose that door knock.

[TM99]

31. Those are the top issues

on his website, but if you are really interested in him, check out the news section.

All of the topics from LGBT civil rights to immigration reform are there with stump speeches, legislative actions to date, and proposed future action.

It is so damned irritating that people keep expressing 'concern', and yet they just are not paying attention. His record is there. His leadership is there. His speeches are available for all to hear. His work with social AND economic justice issues for well nigh 40 years all very easy to source out.

Unlike other candidates, he is transparent, consistent, and congruent. His campaign is organic and unfolding day by day and week by week. He is not focused on optics or focus groups. His campaign will not be doing big slick Madison avenue ads.

To be convince one must put forth some effort. It is all there.

[procon]

50. News is not the same as a candidate's official platform and policy statements, yeah?

Thank you, but I do pay attention, which is why I read many other nonpartisan websites and search out more than just the airy puff pieces here that are only focused on extolling the candidate's superlative qualities. I want to know both the good and bad of every candidate, however, as a voter, my interest does not extend to becoming a full time researcher and taking a deep dive into all "40 years all very easy to source out" material.

In political campaigns, typically the candidates compete to woo voters into their camp. Websites are the only consistent source for most voters and if the information we are seeking isn't there because that politician -- for whatever reason --neglected to provide it, we're going to lose interest and go elsewhere. That's Basic Marketing 101' -- always keep your customers engaged and involved because the more interesting stuff they find in your business, the more apt they are to stay and buy.

Its still early in the process and I haven't crossed anyone off yet, but more than what he may have done in years past, I want to see Sanders official statements that detail how he will act in the future if elected; what steps he actually proposes that will bring about actions to resolve all these vital social issues that concern so many people.

[hrmjustin]

24. This op is demeaning.

[Bonobo]

26. No, it isn't.

What prompted it, however, is.

[hrmjustin]

30. Your problem and the problem of several of you friends that support Sanders is that you can dish it

out but can't take it.

You can't stand criticism of Sanders.

[TM99]

32. Criticism is fine.

Thinly veiled flamebait posts expressing 'concern' are not.

A white woman telling me a bi-racial man that Sanders is not 'doing enough on race' when his fucking history is replete with words and deeds is NOT criticism.

It is manipulative crap.

[hrmjustin]

34. Heterosexuals telling me that Hillary Clinton is bad for Gay rights and is not my friend is

Annoys the shit out of me.

Now you know how I feel.

And why is it when there us criticism of Sanders you and your friends always declare it flaimebait?

You do it all the time.

[TM99]

38. Except, there are plenty of homosexuals

who have criticized Clinton's evolution of gay rights.

I have not problem with other POC disagreeing with me on Sanders and that type of criticism and discussion is fine.

But the threads in questions are flamebait. One was even deemed by the community as such as juried & hidden.

I am sorry that you can't see the difference or how horrid it makes some Clinton supporters look.

[hrmjustin]

41. I am sorry that you can't see how bad it mskes Sanders supporters look that you guys can't handle

Criticism.


Good day to you.

[ismnotwasm]

48. This thread is full of irony, yes?

[hrmjustin]

49. Yes it is and it shows what has bedn going on here.

I hope people realize that several Sanders supporters are can't handle criticism and some are even trying to shut down negative discussion of him.

And that those critiof Sanders are being targeted and demeaned.

[randys1]

51. I would respond but you only get 5 hides then you are gone, I will let you do it for me

as I am one of the white people that SOME Bernie supporters have targeted.

Will be game over for me soon as there are more of them than us, they will run the juries until we are all out of here, seems to me

Oops, I did respond

Oh crap, well I needed to do some shopping anyway.

Watch what happens next, guaranteed

[hrmjustin]

53. .

[frylock]

43. Hillary's record speaks for itself..

nobody is telling anything other than to look at her record.

[hrmjustin]

44. Telling me to look at her record is legit but telling me I don't know who my friends are is another.

[OilemFirchen]

36. An article observing that the Sanders' camp is aware of this problem...

is demeaning?

Do go on.

[Agnosticsherbet]

37. No. "race baiting (uncountable) The act of using racially derisive language, actions, or other forms

of communication in order to anger or intimidate or coerce."

[Indepatriot]

40. That depends on what "the meaning of is, is...."

[BainsBane]

42. Race bating is a right-wing trope

Used to discredit discussions of racism and the concerns of people of color. It's a popular phrase on Fox News, on RW radio and among RWers more generally.

Sanders has very good ideas that speak to the obscene influence of money in politics and class divisions in America, but class is not everything. The American electorate is diverse. Democrats in particular depend on African American votes, since they are the single most reliable voting demographic. Latinos also are key. That is the Democratic party, as are women. Issues pertaining to those groups are not "baiting." They are central to what it means to be a Democrat.

[ismnotwasm]

47. So true

You might as well tell AA's and others "they're playing the race card". Sanders should be able to address social issues without agonizing over it. So should any Democrat.

And: I find in the OP a perfect example of irony.

[BainsBane]

56. Which has been done, BTW

[ismnotwasm]

58. Not surprised.

It's disgusting.

[BainsBane]

59. I can send you the link if you like

It was truly disturbing.

[ismnotwasm]

64. Please do

I want to test a theory about this. I'm guessing I'll already know certain names.

[ismnotwasm]

70. And I was right!

What's word worse that disgusting? Loathsome will do I think

[randys1]

52. The very idea that AfAm are being accused of race baiting, on DU, is stunning

and this bullshit that it is only whites who are asking about Bernies' issues with the minorities, is a lie

that is a lie

did I say that is a lie?

[99Forever]

45. Of course it is.

Nor is it surprising that those doing it, are, given their track record of doing or saying anything and everything to try to gain an advantage.

[HassleCat]

54. Don't be like them

Pretending to be "deeply concerned" about various things, but especially race, is a favorite tactic of Republicans.

[zappaman]

55. "Feigning concern"?

What a shit OP.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

63. Look here. It's the guy who locks meta threads engaging in meta.

What a hypocritical shit post.

Who are those other hosts you claim to have conferred with? I've asked you that question several times now. Why aren't you able to answer?

[zappaman]

67. awww still crying about your locked post?

sorry you don't understand how hosting works.
click the about button to see the other hosts.
still have a problem? contact the admins.
maybe you can sign up?

[MineralMan]

85. As someone who has served as a host many times,

it's clear to me that you do not understand how hosting works. Decisions are made by consensus, and the hosts forum is well-balanced in its makeup, with the full range of DU viewpoints represented. When you're qualified to be a host again, I highly recommend a term as a forum host, just to see how TOS issues are handled.

Disclaimer: I am currently a forum host again, as of today. I will be for the next 90 days.

[zappaman]

88. Oops looks like the poster can't reply with yet another hide.

That's unfortunate.

[MineralMan]

89. Ah. Well, never mind, then.

I didn't notice the hidden post.

[bettyellen]

65. The OP is "feigning concern" that POC here feel patronized instead of supported when white people

Here agree with their sentiments. And ironically the Sanders campaign has admitted their problem with initial outreach and are correcting course.
So there is a real issue acknowledge by the campaign- the OP is the one playing cards here.

[sabrina 1]

72. Why are AAs being singled out as the only minority group needing special attention when nothing

could be further from the truth? See the growing support from them and ALL MINORITY groups ONCE THEY KNOW that Bernie is running. I find it insulting to AAs to assume they alone are in need of this kind of singling out frankly.

[ismnotwasm]

75. I would find it insultingly disingenuous you assume that politically aware PoC

Wouldn't already know Sanders is running.

[sabrina 1]

76. I assume nothing nothing of the sort, I KNOW they knew he was running, which is why these

'concerns we see here from a few were extremely puzzling to me. Why do YOU think they thought ONLY AAs were in need of being led by the hand to find these things out??

They can put their concerns to rest as I have posted an OP demonstrating how unnecessary their 'concerns' are. And of course if they were genuine, they will be thrilled to learn just how active ALL minorities are in Bernie's campaign. So far none of the 'concerned' have paid much attention to that OP.

[ismnotwasm]

81. Since you don't know me

I'll simply ask a question. Who, exactly are you telling that their "concerns" are unnecessary?

[bettyellen]

86. "Led by the hand" where? To his website, where social issues do not exist?

To his initial stump speeches where he pivots to economics at every turn- same as the website?
Are you suggesting your OP solves the campaign issue that Sanders own people have acknowledged?
I missed your OP, but if it's another "he marched in Selma" cut and paste....

[bettyellen]

68. Insulting divisive bullshit based on a RW meme to silence progressives

Shame on you.

[hrmjustin]

69. Shoukd be locked as divisive meta.

[AgingAmerican]

74. It is at least in part

There are those with an agenda that use it as an excuse to attack his flawless record on civil rights.

[onecaliberal]

77. Yes. Those assertions are also damn lies.

[Maedhros]

78. The Clinton Campaign MUST make this primary about something other than economic policy.

Both Sanders and O'Malley wipe the floor with her in that arena.

Unfortunately, she doesn't fare much better when it comes to civil rights. Not because Hillary is particularly bad on civil rights, but that Sanders is so good - and has a spotless 40-year record to prove it. Nonetheless, this is still the more favorable battle ground for Hillary.

Therefore a strategy has been developed to undercut Sanders' record with concern trolling. They can't attack his actual record, so "weaknesses" must be invented:

"Is Sanders doing enough?"

"Why isn't Sanders saying more?"

It's calculated and dishonest.

[BainsBane]

90. You can make up any excuse

People can shout down, have juries hide posts, and drive off the few remaining African American members on this site, and all it does is limit y'all's exposure to the issue. It doesn't change how those groups view him; it doesn't change how the African American press writes about him; and it doesn't win over voters. It does, however, seem to make people here feel better. That, more than helping Sanders win or advancing any cause, seems to be the more important concern. Have your little hermetic world where you can control which voices are allowed to speak. You certainly can't do it in the broader American society.

You have seen threads by African Americans who are not in fact Clinton supporters (some O'Malley, some undecided) expressing concern. Clearly that is about how they feel. Yet people here call their concerns illegitimate, unnecessary, memes, and "pretend." Their concerns are seen as inconsequential because their lives are seen as inconsequential.

[mmonk]

79. More of using a lack of visibility at this stage which is more of an assumption for political

convenience.

[JI7]

91. speaking of those who "feign concern"