MoveOn has a perfect response to Netroots controversy:

[sufrommich]

“The presidential candidates’ responses today to the powerful protest led by Black activists at Netroots Nation—as well as other remarks from the campaign trail in recent weeks—make clear that all Democratic candidates have work to do in understanding and addressing the movement for Black lives.

“Saying that ‘all lives matter’ or ‘white lives matter’ immediately after saying ‘Black lives matter’ minimizes and draws attention away from the specific, distinct ways in which Black lives have been devalued by our society and in which Black people have been subject to state and other violence.

“Similarly, while economic and racial justice issues certainly intersect, and reducing economic inequality will benefit people of all races, portrayals of racial injustice as merely an offshoot of economic injustice or the implication that solutions to economic inequality will take care of racism represent a fundamental misunderstanding of how race operates in our country.

“Frankly, all Democratic presidential candidates need to do better. Candidates must make clear that they stand in solidarity with the movement for Black lives and be willing to say explicitly ‘Black lives matter’—full stop, without qualifiers. Candidates should develop and convey an understanding of how racism operates independently of as well as how it intersects with economic inequality, and say what they intend to do to about it. And candidates should heed the call to say the names of Black men and women like Sandra Bland who have died in police custody, and give specific commitments to address police brutality and mass incarceration.”

http://front.moveon.org/moveon-response-to-netroots-nation-presidential-town-hall/#.VarOYfmo3B5


It doesn't place blame, it speaks to all our candidates. When I heard what happened at Netroots today my first thought wasn't "how does this affect my candidate" it was " we have got a problem". We aren't addressing the anger and fear young black people are experiencing in a way that is connecting with them. I'm sure if Hillary Clinton were there she would have had the same experience as the other candidates.This is a problem for all of us,every democrat.

[ibegurpard]

1. Yes good response

[madfloridian]

7. I disagree. They are trying to have it both ways.

[RiverLover]

10. Here are just SOME of the WHITE people who have died in police custody recently....

Man dies in police custody in Holiday Lakes
Thursday, July 9, 2015
http://www.chron.com/houston/article/Man-dies-in-police-custody-in-Holiday-Lakes-6375073.php

Man Dies in Montclair Police Custody
7/3/15
http://www.chron.com/houston/article/Man-dies-in-police-custody-in-Holiday-Lakes-6375073.php

UPDATE: Man killed in police chase in KCK identified
7/16/15
http://www.kshb.com/news/crime/police-chase-ends-on-interstate-35-and-18th-street-expressway

Warren police sued over man who collapsed in custody and died
6/22/15
http://www.macombdaily.com/general-news/20150622/warren-police-sued-over-man-who-collapsed-in-custody-and-died

Death by dehydration prompts changes at Island Co. Jail
6/18/15
http://www.king5.com/story/news/local/investigations/2015/06/18/island-county-jail-death-keaton-farris/28899369/

Idaho Man Dies While Being Restrained in Police Custody
6/26/15
http://newsradio1310.com/idaho-man-dies-while-being-restrained-in-police-custody/


ALL LIVES MATTER

(And we have a police brutality problem.)

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. I guess you missed this ...

“Saying that ‘all lives matter’ or ‘white lives matter’ immediately after saying ‘Black lives matter’ minimizes and draws attention away from the specific, distinct ways in which Black lives have been devalued by our society and in which Black people have been subject to state and other violence.

[RiverLover]

18. I disagree. Saying Black Lives Matter, All Lives Matter is TRUTH while still highlighting BLM.

And do the white people killed in police custody not matter because they are white? It definitely isn't getting the same press.

I get we have serious discrimination problems in the country, but they're wrong to fight against the very people who are fighting for them. have some dialogue about policies you want put in place, something constructive. Not disrupting what could have been some incredibly inspiring speeches from OUR candidates.

Sorry. Just saw your .

Guess this has me riled up. You were agreeing with me...that's unique.

[7962]

41. I dont think the face palm means he's agreeing with you

But I do.
I tired of renegade cops killing people of ALL races. EVERY time it happens it needs full exposure from all angles.

[heaven05]

93. white woman do not

end up on the ground, with their head slammed into the concrete and a knee in their back, constantly and consistently. Remember the 14 year old girl in the bathing suit, slammed to the ground? I just haven't seen it happen with any consistency among the privileged class and I do go looking. A lot of the privileged class think POC have no memory about these incidents. I don't understand why. Maybe it's just not being able to realize POC can reason and have excellent memories. Have to, to be able to deal with what Sandra Bland got. Constructive enough for you as a comment on your hissyfit. By the way, no one agreed with you.....

[sulphurdunn]

20. All lives matter.

One doesn't matter more than another. If you start thinking they don't, you're on the wrong side.

[Roy Rolling]

22. 100% Correct

I think the issue is some white Democrats are miffed they are profiled by that statement when they may have taken great pains to avoid that sort of language faux pas.

Those trailing statements are certainly passive-aggressive and diminish "black lives matter". Concerned candidates should know to avoid using those statements together, it's just respect.

[GitRDun]

32. You are absolutely right!

Let's say a protester shouts "Women should be allowed to control their own bodies!!!"

Would it be appropriate for a candidate to respond by saying , "Everyone should be able to control their own bodies"?

That would be a pretty hollow response, even though it may be true some class of men somewhere did not have control.

These candidates need to get a grasp on the fact that the message received is, in fact, the message.

The message they intended to or did send means nothing.

[RiverLover]

33. That would not bother me in the least.

If anything it would show that both men & women should equally have rights over their bodies & the PTB are trying to take those rights away from women.

[GitRDun]

35. You are in a pretty small group then. Congrats to you.

[bravenak]

64. You are brand new and being abusive. Not cool.

[AOR]

81. You've come to the wrong pew with your protestations...

Your accusations of abuse are beyond laughable. Discuss what was written and state your case or refrain from responding with the childish games of those who have no answers. Politics is not a game of gotcha or personalities. Politics is about power and resources and who controls them and why that is. Real people on the ground - of all stripes - are being destroyed on a daily basis by the exploitation, oppression, and institutionalized theft of the commons and the labor of the working class. Racism is a by-product of that power structure.

Capitalism - at it's very foundations - is based on the institutionalized theft of labor, expropriation of the commons, and oppression of the masses - for the unlimited profit of few - and it doesn't really discriminate or care about the color of your skin, sexual orientation, or anything else. Racism is a tool of those that OWN the power to divide the oppressed masses. Those facts - in material reality- are why the social justice without economic justice arguments are so utterly bankrupt and devoid of any meaning. The two can't be logically separated in the fight against capitalist oppression and expropriation and in the context of class struggle. Anyone who claims they can is no leftist or friend of the working class - AS A WHOLE - and are not really interested in an actual just and more equitable society for ALL.

Racism, white privilege, and blatant and insidious discrimination most surely exist and need to be fought at every turn, but to focus simply on that without a thorough understanding of class and class struggle is an apology for the oppression and injustice that many claim to fighting against.

[bravenak]

90. I can see you'll be getting pizza.

[heaven05]

92. you've come to the wrong place

with your garbage. Economics did not kill Sandra Bland. It was a separate issue from the job she drove from Illinois to Texas to start the next day after her arrest. Why can't you get that straight? Class? You're in a class alright with this garbage...the white, privileged class. And you are blinded by THAT class distinction. period.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

61. I heard a young man

shout out from the crowd after O'Malley added "white lives matter." He said "we already know white lives matter!" To me that is the point: valuing black lives equally with all others and working for the according justice.

[Cha]

65. That is a good response. He said "we already know white lives matter!"

[eridani]

82. That was exactly what Clinton said in a black church

So indirectly they did name names.

[1StrongBlackMan]

83. And???? n/t

[Roy Rolling]

16. Response to what?

"...Saying that ‘all lives matter’ or ‘white lives matter’ immediately after saying ‘Black lives matter’ ..." Response to that statement?

MoveOn's pitiful attempt itself to be all things to all people but stand for nothing, is precisely what it is ranting against.

But to be a good response, there has to be a preceding proclamation. And I don't think all Democrats said what was characterized in the quote above. It is a straw man argument to say all Democrats don't understand the distinction between "black lives matter" and "all lives matter", especially since the origin of "all lives matter" is specifically to diminish the import of "black lives matter".

So spare us the sanctimonious ass-kissing, MoveOn. And stop setting up speech requirements for people to pledge allegiance to your causes, and attempt to define candidates by your specific parameters.

But to be sure, I'm gonna watch to the entire exchange. If I'm wrong, then, uh....never mind.

[Mojorabbit]

79. Do we really let the right co opt the phrase "all lives matter"?

How lame is that? I am impressed with the Black Lives Matter movement but I cede nothing to the right.

[Le Taz Hot]

2. Not at all surrised by this response from them.

[sadoldgirl]

3. That is only a one-sided answer.

If you invite candidates to speak or to have a
discussion, you don't shout them down; and if
as the head of the organization you tweet ahead
of time that that is what you plan, your organization
should be shunned by all candidates, because your
invitation was a scam.

[winter is coming]

13. +1. Let the candidates speak and then grill them about your issues.

Shouting them down before they can say anything is stupid.

[Skwmom]

4. From what I've read Bernie did not say "all lives matter" or "white lives matter."

In response, he said of course black lives matter.

Both O'Malley and Clinton have said "All lives matter."

The woman who wrote the press release should now better than to make statements such as “Saying that ‘all lives matter’ or ‘white lives matter’ immediately after saying ‘Black lives matter’ without identifying the candidate who made the statements. Otherwise, it is misleading - which was probably the intention - because it's hard to believe anyone involved in the world of politics could be so clueless.

[99th_Monkey]

5. That's exactly right. Bernie didn't say that, it was O'Malley

and he said it more than once, in one case twice in a row.


and what he actually said was ... "Black Lives Matter, White Lives Matter" ...

[madfloridian]

6. he also said all lives matter.

And they do.

[99th_Monkey]

8. ok, you may be right

he may have said that after saying what I said he said.

[Skwmom]

17. Please clarify that he is O'Malley (not Sanders). n/t

[madfloridian]

19. I've put up both videos.

[Skwmom]

53. Some people don't watch the video and the one on Sanders was only a partial video.

Here is the whole video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=31&v=wHhrvKlZyS4

[madfloridian]

60. Thank you, that's the one I saw live. Thanks so much.

I updated it in my post.

[madfloridian]

58. O'Malley said black lives matter, white lives matter, all lives matter. He said it twice.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. Excellent response. nt

[BeyondGeography]

11. It's a great response if we want to nominate politically correct weaklings

who cave in to rude assholes.

[7962]

42. Boom!

[99Forever]

67. Yep. +1000

[R B Garr]

69. So I guess you thought Occupy Wall Street were rude assholes, too?

Or is it only Black Lives Matter who should be well-behaved and respectful?

[Trajan]

102. The target of Occupy's wrath were greedy bankers

Not upcoming liberal progressive presidential candidates who are actually decent, caring, considerate human beings ...

The comparison falls flat

[R B Garr]

103. The post I responded to called BLM "rude assholes."

Was OWS rude assholes?

[Number23]

86. Wow.

[geek tragedy]

99. Listen to yourself. nt

[PatrickforO]

12. I disagree this was a good response.

The netroots nation event sucked because a) they lied to the candidates about the format, b) they had a crappy, inexperienced moderator who was so rude as to take pics of the crowd with his cell phone while the candidates just stood there, and c) shitty crowd control.

Yes, I hear free speech, but these people who came on the stage and flapped their own jaws instead of letting the candidates speak and the utter failure to impose some control with speak, question and answer was just wrong. Sure people are mad. Black lives do matter. Social injustice sucks. Police brutality needs to be ended right now.

But these people shouted down candidates who AGREE WITH THEM instead of hearing what they had to say and then asking pointed questions. What POSSIBLE good does that do? Really.

Instead of 'we' having a lot to learn, I think netroots has a lot to learn about how to put on a serious event. They suck.

[swilton]

26. Very well put

Netroots lost a lot of credibility with me today.

[beam me up scottie]

34. I was looking forward to it.

It sucks because now they will have a hard time getting candidates to speak there again.

No one who shows up in good faith appreciates being ambushed.

[Autumn]

68. I didn't know that Hillary was booed there in 2007, someone posted about it this morning.

Bernie, O'Malley and Hillary have all stood against injustice and Police brutality. For netroots nation to allow them to be treated the way they were I wouldn't blame any Democrat for never going there again.

[PatrickforO]

77. Well I've sent them an email telling them they suck, and that they can absolutely COUNT

on me never to support them in any way or give them a single dime in donation.

[seveneyes]

95. Bingo. netroots blew it

There is no excuse for it and it can not be undone. Nothing good will come from this disaster.

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. I have to read the entire response; but ...

I got here:

Similarly, while economic and racial justice issues certainly intersect, and reducing economic inequality will benefit people of all races, portrayals of racial injustice as merely an offshoot of economic injustice or the implication that solutions to economic inequality will take care of racism represent a fundamental misunderstanding of how race operates in our country.

And wondered ... Why I had not thought to say something like that?

[JDPriestly]

101. Actually, it depends on how far you go back on racism.

The racism of today is the outgrowth of slavery which was in fact an economic system.

So, historically, racism is related to that economic system.

Today, racism appears to stand on its own and is less clearly related to economics. A rich Black man may and probably will be still treated badly in certain situations in which a poor white man would be treated like a member of a royal family.

The origins of racism lie in the economic system of slavery, but today, racism is not always related to economic reality. I would argue, however, that a lot of the racism today is related to the stereotypes about Black people that grew out of slavery.

So you have a good point, but it is more complicated because the historical origins of racism in the US lie in the economic system of slavery, but the social reality of racism is that it has grown away from that economic system and remained as that system disappeared. But in a sense, racism is an effort on the part of white racists to reconstruct the economic and social relationship with Black people that was basic to slavery. Racism, that is, is an effort to establish a relationship in which the white person is perceived and perceives himself as more valuable economically and socially than the Black person.

The racist persuades him- or herself that he or she has more value than the Black person. So in that sense it is an economic issue. It's about the value of the person.

That is why it is important to say that Black Lives Matter.

What do you think about the statement "Black Lives Matter as Much as White Lives"?

I'm asking for your thoughts on that statement because I'm not sure what I think of it myself. What about the statement, "Black Lives Matter More Than White Lives"?

Which of these statements are unacceptable? Which are barely acceptable? Which are true? Which are untrue?

I'm interested in your point of view.

[1StrongBlackMan]

104. ...

What do you think about the statement "Black Lives Matter as Much as White Lives"?

Response: I think that is a valid statement; but, it dilutes the movements message that, here, in this space (America) and right now, the equality of mankind is not at issue ... the issue is the complete institutionalized devaluation of Black lives.

I'm asking for your thoughts on that statement because I'm not sure what I think of it myself. What about the statement, "Black Lives Matter More Than White Lives"?

Response: This is an incorrect statement ... no life should be valued more than another, especially based on their particular flavor.

Which of these statements are unacceptable? Which are barely acceptable? Which are true? Which are untrue?

Response: The latter statement is false and unacceptable. The penultimate statement is true; but, barely acceptable in the context of this discussion. The first statement ("Black Live Matter", full stop) is true and completely acceptable, in the context of this discussion.

[JDPriestly]

105. Thanks. Agreed.

[jeff47]

21. Uh, no, they don't.

They have a caricature of what the candidates have been saying, and responded to that caricature.

[winter is coming]

23. "implication that solutions to economic inequality will take care of racism"...

is a shit statement. No one's claiming that fixing economic inequality will magically make racism, sexism, or any other kind of -ism go away. This meme is an attempt to play the "which is more important?" game and drive a wedge between Democrats, and get us to accept the idea that we can only have economic inequality or social inequality, but not both. It's a meme that best serves politicians who want to offer us crumbs of social equality while inexorably driving us into poverty, and I utterly reject it.

[pnwmom]

25. In the past, Bernie Sanders has implied this very thing. It's why he didn't think

he needed to "tailor his message" -- which was purely an economic message -- to different audiences.

He is working hard now on speaking to minority groups on issues that specifically matter to them, but it is a new way of campaigning for him that he's never had to do as the Senator from Vermont.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/immigration/la-na-democrats-latinos-20150620-story.html#page=1

Garrison Nelson, a professor of political science at the University of Vermont, said it is not Sanders' natural instinct to tailor his message to different audiences.

"Bernie's not an identity politics candidate," said Nelson, who has been following Sanders' political career for decades.

"Bernie's is an economic message," Nelson said. "He believes the underclass is not defined by their demography; they're defined by their income. He finds this kind of demographic politics somewhat — well, he doesn't like it."

[beam me up scottie]

31. No, he didn't.

And your "concern" is noted and dismissed as just another excuse to tear down a candidate who has fought for civil rights his entire life.

Opinions are not facts, pnwmom.

Stop conflating the two.

[pnwmom]

36. Bernie: "I'm not a liberal. Never have been."

Sanders told The Times that he hopes his populist economic message will unite working-class voters, cutting across race, party, and ideology.

“I look at these things more from a class perspective,” Sanders said. “I’m not a liberal. Never have been. I’m a progressive who mostly focuses on the working and middle class.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bernie-sanders-polls-minority-voters-2015-7#ixzz3gIGO4XWq

[beam me up scottie]

37. Doesn't prove your claim.

Try again.

[pnwmom]

39. It proves that he has argued that his message cuts across racial and gender lines

and so he didn't have to address concerns of specific demographic groups.

But he has begun to try to adapt his message to a larger world than Vermont, so that's good.

[beam me up scottie]

44. Bullshit. "so he didn't have to address concerns of specific demographic groups"

You continue to make false claims about a civil rights champion.

[pnwmom]

49. And you keep ignoring his actual words. Maybe, instead of lecturing minorities

on how "you should not be basing your politics based on your color," he should be really listening instead. It seems that he has started to, but he needs to go beyond reminding people of his civil rights work in decades past.

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/06/this-interview-shows-why-bernie-sanders-is-losing-african-american-support/

“Well, here’s what you got. What you got is an African-American president, and the African-American community is very, very proud that this country has overcome racism and voted for him for president. And that’s kind of natural. You’ve got a situation where the Republican Party has been strongly anti-immigration, and you’ve got a Hispanic community which is looking to the Democrats for help.

“But that’s not important. You should not be basing your politics based on your color. What you should be basing your politics on is, how is your family doing?”

"Substantively, Sanders’ philosophy misses the point that many of those “demographic” issues are economic issues. For black Americans, the criminal justice and policing reforms that Hillary Clinton has advocated are directly tied to their economic well-being, or that of their close friends and relatives. And while Sanders decries the role of money in politics, the Obama coalition is much more urgently concerned with whether they’ll even be allowed to vote in the next election.

"Bernie Sanders’ positions on these issues aren’t really the problem, though. Politically, he has made the calculation that focusing on those issues loses him more “white working-class” support than it would gain him among non-white voters. Since Hillary Clinton has left him little room to make inroads with the Obama coalition, this may be his best shot, but if Bernie Sanders keeps handling questions like these with fists of ham that would make Oscar Mayer blush, he’ll end up driving away what little support he has from them."

[beam me up scottie]

52. Bernie: "we are far from eradicating racism"

Sanders: Charleston Shooting Reminder Of 'Ugly Stain Of Racism' In US

Presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) on Thursday condemned the shooting at a historically black church in Charleston, S.C. as a "tragic reminder of the ugly stain of racism" tainting America.

"This senseless violence fills me with outrage, disgust and a deep, deep sadness," Sanders tweeted.

In a longer statement, the Democratic presidential contender said the killings, which were blamed on a white suspect whose victims included state Sen. Clementa Pinckney (D), showed that the U.S. had a long way to go in escaping its history of racial violence.

"The hateful killing of nine people praying inside a church is a horrific reminder that, while we have made significant progress in advancing civil rights in this country, we are far from eradicating racism," he said.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and their congregation," Sanders added.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/charleston-shooting-bernie-sanders-racism

If racial justice is so important to you why are you unaware of those comments?

[pnwmom]

56. I'm not unaware of those comments. That's why I said he is beginning to open the door

to talking about race, even though he hasn't been doing that much till recently.

http://www.vox.com/2015/5/27/8671135/bernie-sanders-race

For other progressives — many of them black or Latino — economic inequality is important, but so is racial inequality. They're extremely concerned about racial bias in policing, and about ending mass incarceration. They're concerned about the treatment of unauthorized immigrants, and about protecting voting rights (an issue like campaign finance where progressives are worried the integrity of the political system is at stake — and where the outcome doesn't look good for them).

Bernie Sanders doesn't speak to those concerns. He didn't mention those issues in his campaign launch in May. They're not on the issues page of his website. And his appearance at Netroots Nation in July left many attendees frustrated: Sanders answered questions about racial issues by pivoting back to economic ones.

[beam me up scottie]

57. And yet you continue to swift boat Bernie

Stop posting opinion pieces and listen.

[pnwmom]

63. I'll post whatever I wish and you can continue to do the same. n/t

[whathehell]

78. +1. n/t

I'm a Bernie supporter, but really.

[R B Garr]

73. He swiftboated himself by his behavior, swiftboating being your term.

Stop telling people to disregard what someone does in real time in front of real people to tout some fluffy articles.

[R B Garr]

74. He swiftboated himself by his own behavior, "swiftboating" being your chosen

term. He appeared quite flustered to be taken off message. Mr. Town Hall expert didn't look very adept at it last night!

Stop telling people to disregard what someone does in real time in front of real people.

[Vattel]

100. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Sadly, it does seem to be necessary. You are obviously correct that the quotes that have been offered in no way support the bullshit conclusion. One has to wonder if the issue is reading comprehension or there is deliberate swift-boating going on.

[beam me up scottie]

54. More of his words: Sanders denounces racism

Sanders denounces racism, divisive politics of Trump in address to La Raza

U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, who is running for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2016, addressed the annual convention of the National Council of La Raza on July 13, calling for comprehensive immigration reform and denouncing those who would divide Americans over race and national origin.

...

While “racism has plagued the United States since its inception,” Sanders said the nation has advanced. “We should be proud that in recent decades we have made real progress,” he said. But he cautioned that voices of division remain and must be forcefully rejected.

“Not Donald Trump, not anyone else will be successful in dividing us based on race or on our country of origin. America becomes a greater nation, a stronger nation, when we stand together as one people and in a loud and clear voice we say no to racism and bigotry,” Sanders said.

http://www.wisconsingazette.com/political/sanders-denounces-racism-divisive-politics-of-trump-in-address-to-la-raza.html

You're the one lecturing people, pnwmom.

Stop telling everyone what he thinks and start listening.

[R B Garr]

72. He wasn't "listening" last night. He was rude and condescending.

Stop lecturing people to ignore what he actually does in real time in front of real people instead of some fluffy opinion pieces.

[beam me up scottie]

55. Bernie: I want an America where young black men are not harassed, killed and shot in the streets

"And like everybody in this room, I want to see an America where when young black men walk down the street they will not be harassed by police officers, they will not be killed; they will not be shot!"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=455509


He's been listening, what's your excuse for ignoring what he said on the issues?

Could it be you don't give a shit and are just using race for your own agenda?

[R B Garr]

71. He wasn't "listening" last night. He was rude and condescending.

There are only 6,000 blacks in Vermont where he has his so-called famous town hall meetings to talk to the people, but with so little diversity in Vermont, he obviously doesn't have to bothered with anyone if it doesn't suit him. You are looking at the difference between words and actions. Anyone can talk a good game. I wonder if he would have been so dismissive of the Occupy Wall Street protestors since that is his prime target audience. Black Lives Matter -- not so much.

[R B Garr]

75. He fled New York 30 years ago because he didn't like people.

Vermont has 6,000 Blacks. It's impossible for him to be a "civil rights champion" except for on paper because -- in real time -- in his state, he does not have to deal with diversity. People can question his authenticity without it being a "false claim". GET USED TO IT.

[heaven05]

94. whoa!!

smack down....

[winter is coming]

45. Well said. n/t

[AOR]

48. +1

it's utter bullshit and it not only serves the capitalist lapdog politicians. It's a meme that best fits the capitalist ruling class and the owners to divide the working class and pit the poor of one race against the poor of any other.

[Babel_17]

70. Fertile ground doesn't gurantee good crops for all

but barren soils does guarantee a poor harvest for everyone.

Imo, this is what Social Democracy is about. You have to prepare the field in order for all the great things we want to grow. Rights for women, POC, minorities, vet's, disabled, children, are all at the mercy of our economic system. Every year government generates new laws, and that can be great, but what we also need generated is new economic opportunity.

We can pass more laws saying all our injured veterans will get better taken care of, but if government doesn't generate the revenue, or cut wasteful spending, it just won't happen. We can legislate how companies hire, so that it's more fair, but that doesn't create jobs.

We can legislate that college admissions must meet a fair criteria. but that doesn't help students get jobs before, during, and after, they attend. Without an economy with jobs, attaining a degree becomes less of a valued achievement.

We want safer neighborhoods, more hospitals and clinics, roads and sidewalks in good repair, a good system of utilities, public transportation, clean water, clean food, clean air, all the good things of life, and they all require the kind of economic change that Social Democracy is all about.

We want social change. But for that crop to flourish and truly be bountiful, the soil has to be prepared.

It's just basic good sense to agree to this, and to encourage it coming about.

[pnwmom]

24. What many in the "All lives matter" camp fail to recognize

is that economic equality will not, in and of itself, bring racial equality.

If you think it will, then go ahead and ask any of your black friends or relatives or acquaintances who have reached a professional , well-paid, status.

Do they feel that the people around them are "color-blind"? Do they get harassed by the police in situations where the police wouldn't stop white people? Do they get treated by salespeople as if they don't belong in high-end stores?

Are they frightened for their children every time their children leave the house?

For white people, attaining a high educational or economic level tends to bring respect and a feeling of security. For black people, no matter how high they climb -- even if they become the President of the United States -- there will be people who view them as undeserving and unworthy. Because of their race.

[RiverLover]

27. So doing nothing to help blacks get paid more & have access to good education is the way to go

because to you & others it won't help them? I call BS.

Doing NOTHING will not help anyone. We can't change what's in people's hearts. But we can make racial economic equality through economic policy attainable.

Its better than the alternative, which is to do nothing but whine about how unfair it is, while it continues.

[pnwmom]

28. I call BS on your distortion of my post. n/t

[PatrickforO]

38. Well this IS true.

For us white guys, it is the fact that we have enjoyed unearned white privilege in a profoundly racist society. And that does suck. Economic justice is good, but to have social justice we would have to make some sea changes in our society.

First, public school funding would have to be evened out so each pupil, no matter where they attend school, gets the same amount of funding, AND re-institute bussing because we've got a lot of de facto segregation going on. And classes within the schools need to be desegregated as well. The problem is that kids will still tend to hang in cliques.

Police brutality can be addressed through making sure these cops aren't on steroids, first of all, and then taking a whole new tack with retraining. We've got to get the police forces and sheriffs departments back to the serve and protect community policing model instead of 'they are the enemy, stomp on them 'til they totally submit' model which we have now. We can also implement predictable sanctions for brutality and track incidents through body cameras.

We also need to end the drug war, legalize pot, decriminalize the rest and END private prisons. There is absolutely NO excuse for introducing the profit motive into the corrections system. And these contracts communities sign with these private jails to guarantee 80% occupancy? Get rid of those.

Sounds like a lot of entrenched interests will lose a lot of money if we take steps for social justice. But they do need to be taken.

Still, the netroots event sucked because, well, see my post below. That whole thing was just wrong - in the sense it was poorly planned and poorly conducted.

[pnwmom]

40. Thanks for your thoughtful post, PatrickforO.

I agree -- it will be a huge job. But it must be done.

[Mojorabbit]

80. There has to be a drive to be inclusive

I have a friend who is a single mother and a Muslim. She is terrified for her 8 year old son's safety. I have heard people making offensive remarks when out with her(She wears the hijab). If I were Queen of the world there would be continuous psa's on being inclusive and tolerant. It would be taught in school, plastered on billboards etc. These divisions only succeed when people are encouraged conform and to dehumanize each other.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

62. +1 n/t

[jalan48]

29. Perhaps a better way to get their message across would be to give examples of how Obama has

addressed the issue of 'black lives matter' and ask the candidates if they would support continuing efforts like his. It would acknowledge Obama's efforts and also give the candidates the opportunity to agree or disagree.

[still_one]

30. It is a two way street. That is what a dialog is all about. This was a Town Hall, and they made it

very difficult to answer questions because of all the disruptions.

[heaven05]

46. excellent response, thank

book marked and k&r......

[SleeplessinSoCal]

47. Bernie is not an empathetic person. And he's way too old.

He will be 75 on election day. I would vote for Joe Biden, who is only one year younger because he has so many qualities and Oval Office experience that Bernie lacks.

Bernie needs a better answer for what Democratic Socialism is than pointing to Scandinavian countries. He will have a tough time with minorities for diminishing their deep convictions. The center could drift right over attack ads on our financial system compared to theirs. And after years listening to him with Thom Hartmann, he comes across like a sermonizing rabbi too much of the time. No charisma or feelings comes across.

We need a younger version of Sanders. Someone with communication skills and who comes across like a people person.

Elizabeth Warren in 2020!!

Joe Biden in 2016!

[AOR]

50. Nice Ageism...

going on in that post. And of course we sit back and wonder how discrimination and prejudice takes root. Unbelievable.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

51. Ageism regarding Commander in Chief?

It's pretty amazing how little compassion comes across with his total life experience. I don't think he planned to run for president. But winning is going to be a marathon and an obstacle course. We saw how all presidents age when they take on the troubles of the world. It's got to be a consideration.

But I mention many other drawbacks as well.

MHO, Sleepless

[Person 2713]

59. Hartman been doing Brunch with Bernie ? I know I have quite a lot from Sanders on some radio show

I have not picked a candidate to back yet . My very weak and dlc dem party township in this area sent me an email with an article claiming if we don't stand with the front runner we are what fractures the party . I did not like that tone so early in the race. Some other Hillary mouthpieces have turned me off too so far.
I am not turned off by what I have heard of him on the radio but he seems a dream , a Pipe dream but then I remember Obama and the odds The difference may be that Bernie doesn't seem the type to compromise and ObMa was changing as the race went on and in office on his policies.
I am going to listen to him now n Phoenix

[boston bean]

66. this was stated perfectly! But some just won't hear it!

“Similarly, while economic and racial justice issues certainly intersect, and reducing economic inequality will benefit people of all races, portrayals of racial injustice as merely an offshoot of economic injustice or the implication that solutions to economic inequality will take care of racism represent a fundamental misunderstanding of how race operates in our country.

[Sancho]

89. This is exactly correct...

I see this everyday. When I've mentioned variations, I get flamed for the most part.

Economic improvements (not even close to equity) is a subset of social justice.

[frylock]

97. Is there a reason our current President can't do that?

[Number23]

84. Interesting to see how real, bona fide LIBERALS respond to this. What a dramatic difference

from here. Perhaps they can be a role model for others that fancy themselves as such.

This is a great response. I didn't know MoveOn was even still around. K&R

[lovemydog]

85. That was my first reaction too. 'We have a real problem.'

Not 'how do I spin this for my candidate.'

[PowerToThePeople]

87. Great minds

PowerToThePeople (6,553 posts)
30. I agree

Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2015, 02:03 PM - Edit history (1)
I have no desire to minimize the institutional abuses towards another. Institutional racism is real, it takes black lives. #blacklivesmatter

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6988880

It is so "in your face" obvious that this is true, how could anyone not come to this conclusion?

[sufrommich]

88. That was a great post,PowerToThePeople.I forgot that it

migrated to Facebook too. Yes,Great minds!

[Vattel]

91. This is bullshit.

Bernie hasn't said that all lives matter, he hasn't aid that "racial injustice is merely an offshoot of economic injustice," or that "solutions to economic injustice will take care of racism." He has said explicitly that "Black lives matter," and he has addressed police brutality and mass incarceration.

I know that the goalposts will keep moving to find something he hasn't done, but that's politics.

[Joe the Revelator]

98. What is really bullshit, in my opinion....

....is that we are actually arguing if 'all lives matter' or not. All lives do matter and its fucking pedantic and annoying to have to parse that.

[blackspade]

96. I whole-heartedly agree.

The money quote:

"Frankly, all Democratic presidential candidates need to do better. Candidates must make clear that they stand in solidarity with the movement for Black lives and be willing to say explicitly ‘Black lives matter’—full stop, without qualifiers."

A thoughtful, and well written, response to Netroots fallout.