2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat Bernie said in June of this year about Black Lives Matter. Did the hecklers know?
Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2015, 10:31 PM - Edit history (1)
The episode yesterday at Netroots Nation has now to me become not about candidate Bernie Sanders, but about far more than that.
Though I support Bernie in the primary, this issue is much deeper and more important to the 2016 election than it is about one person.
It's about groups that attack the very people who are standing for them the most. It's about trying to make two very fine candidates look bad in a public venue. It's about not allowing discussion, demanding that only certain words are acceptable, and shouting out anyone else speaking.
Black Lives Matter is an important and vital group. Yesterday they publicly embarrassed one of their strongest advocates.
What Bernie has said (so far) on Black Lives Matter
From June of this year.
A little over a month ago Bernie Sanders said this:
The Good News is: That you're hearing more and more about that issue. You're hearing about Ferguson, you're hearing about Baltimore, you're hearing about New York City, you're hearing about elsewhere.
The Bad News is: IF you think these issues have just occurred in the last year of two, you'd be sadly mistaken.
The truth is that for many many decades, there have been situations where the Police Officers have treated Prisoners terribly. And even in some cases, absolutely unjustly killed them.
The poster also listed some of the solutions Bernie mentioned.
1) We have to recognize Police have a tough Job. We got to Respect them. They have to be well-paid. And they have to be well-trained.
2) BUT, if a Police Officer does something wrong, like anybody else, they have to be held Accountable for their actions. If they break the Law they have got to be held Accountable.
3) We need to stop the Militarization of Police. Police Departments should NOT look like 'Armies'.
4) Community Policing: In effect, to integrate Police Officers in the Community -- so that they become part of the Community, so that actually know the people by name. We have to end the concept of of the Police as the Oppressors.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Response to madfloridian (Original post)
orpupilofnature57 This message was self-deleted by its author.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)have been longing to hear.
Their Rovian talking point was intended to attack him where he is the strongest.
You know it's a paid for talking point when no matter how often it is corrected, it persists.
THIS is going to harm Hillary, because people do not like these tactics.
And because now we all know that it is a talking point intended to derail a great candidacy, it has lost its effect.
Eg, the incident at NN has become suspect to a whole lot of people and it is being attached to Hillary's name, whether true or not.
But that is the result of negative campaigning, when you do it, sometimes there are consequences and for Hillary these are now the consequences, she has to either condemn the lies her campaign is spreading about Bernie, or she is part of it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I felt embarrassed for our candidates yesterday.
merrily
(45,251 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)campaigners because that is what they FEAR the most. And all he has to do is keep on telling the truth. It will overcome all the money spent on spreading lies.
I am USING their lies to bolster our candidate now, showing people what the opposition has to do because they cannot deal with or campaign on the FACTS. It's funny, but when people actually SEE that nastiness and then see how much integrity Bernie has the contrast is remarkable.
Let them spend money on their nasty negative campaigning, we don't need to spend a penny, we can USE theirs to support Bernie.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)that the source they are using is a rotten egg. It smells. Don't use it.. True lies win sometimes but the truth does too.
840high
(17,196 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)...but so is the Big Lie. The Sanders campaign and supporters can't be naive to the evidence that the swift-boating and ratfucking has begun, and will only get worse. Real progressives and minorities are on the same team...beware of those trying to drive a wedge between them.
merrily
(45,251 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the best choice. Show people the lengths they are going to to NOT talk about issues, and to try to silence those who ARE.
I mean why waste all that Corporate money when we can use it for free, to our advantage?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Remotely involved?? Because THAT'S how memes persist. Without evidence, YOU are doing exactly what YOU are claiming to condemn. Either show evidence, or stop persisting that meme.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)campaign against an honest opponent, when you allow your supporters to lie about a candidate's record, Bernie has the best record on Civil Rights in this campaign, when the expensive talking point persists no matter how often it is corrected, there WILL be consequences for that.
And the consequences are that since you have not admonished your supporters for lying about your opponent in such a Rovian fashion, the impression is created that you are on board with it, and the suspicion will be that you are involved in anything that relates to the origianal Rovian talking point.
That's just the reality.
Bernie doesn't pay for negative campaign talking points.
So he will rise about all this as we USE the negativity to point out the difference between a candidate who has the best record on every important issue in this campaign and the lack of substance, being replaced by Rovian talking points, wrt to his opponents.
And that too is a reality.
If you object to people making a connection between a persistent and false talking point and this event, I can't help you. You need to talk to Hillary's campaign because that is who is responsible for it. People will do what seems reasonable to them. That nasty talking point is now connected to her campaign and anything that resembles it will be laid at the feet of her campaign, unless she condemns it all.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)She hasn't said a bad word about Bernie.
TM99
(8,352 posts)She uses her surrogates and supporters to do it for it just as she did in 2008.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)and Luis Gutiérrez.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)
You just know his wife had to get him that job! 
stranger81
(2,345 posts)with false memes that are utterly lacking in evidence (or, in this case, definitively belied by the evidence), maybe you Hillary supporters will dispense with the meme that Bernie Sanders is David Duke with bad hair.
But you won't, will you. I didn't think so.
840high
(17,196 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)that Sanders claims that racial injustice is merely a symptom of economic inequality. It was in a tweet that you posted: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=463010. Granted she didn't use Sanders name, but if you don't think she was referencing Sanders you are terribly naïve.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Last edited Sun Jul 19, 2015, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)
Bernie wanted to get the root of the matter of the rise in crime instead of jailing more people.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Outstanding. In 1991 if I am reading the dates correctly.
This clip should be his warm up to all his speeches.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)
appalachiablue
(41,113 posts)be known more widely. There was a lot of dangerous legislation and policy being passed in the Roaring 90s, don't we realize it now!Thanks for posting this. 
swilton
(5,069 posts)
aspirant
(3,533 posts)the real results of the NN will be the reemergence of more videos like these, they are devastating.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)There will be more. 
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I did a search several hours after the fiasco at Netroots Nation....and nearly every single headline in the media was about Bernie and Martin being chased off the stage, or about how they could not handle the questions.
The protestors came out looking really good while our candidates did not.
It was quick and it was a very bad hit against out two candidates.
Some examples:
Sanders and O’Malley Stumble During Black Lives Matter Protest
http://time.com/3963692/bernie-sanders-martin-omalley-black-lives-matter/
'Black Lives Matter' protesters flummox O'Malley, Sanders
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/black-lives-matter-protesters-flummox-omalley-sanders-120319.html
Protesters shout candidates off stage: ‘Black lives matter!’
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/protesters-shout-candidates-stage-black-lives-matter
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)
hedda_foil
(16,371 posts)So there was some distortion of the circumstances in the coverage ... perhaps to give O'Malley some cover if he gets the VP nod (or POTUS if Hillary flames out).
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)These civil rights groups are getting a lot of big money. I would hope that a candidate's history would matter to them, or the Democrats election might be decided already.
Glad to see them getting the opportunity to make a difference.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)The more I see that this movement overall is not that concerned with electing any candidate.
Checking some more into it.
Skittles
(153,138 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Saving this to digest tomorrow.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Yet he has been systematically singled out as the target for attacks insisting he doesn't care about POC. All the while Hillary has been completely ignored by those same people. Something is definitely up here. This is 'purple heart bandaid' level stuff here.
Swiftboating for sure.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)anything substantive from HRC on racism or the underlying economic issues driven by racism's masters/perpetuators, the bankers and wall street goons... With Sen. Sanders I do. He's starting to come around. That's good.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)He's been doing it for decades.
That's what angers me, the lack of appreciation for all he has done for civil right and for the needs of people. He's got a solid record.
I think Black Lives Matter is an important group. I donated when they started forming. The deaths have been overwhelming.
But they should not have ambushed candidates who were invited to take part. They were caught off guard, damned if they speak, damned if they don't.
Like others here I am starting to wonder at motives. Why go after the candidate who is closest to being what they are asking for, and not bother another one at all.
I hate to think that way. But I am looking through funding. There is big money behind this group and others. There can be harm in that.
Bernie and O'Malley deserve to be treated courteously. Bottom line.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)
the #Black Lives Matter brouhaha here has shown me whose lives matter to many liberals and progressives that have been here and those who are new. I would never impugn Sen. Sanders works in favor of equality of races in amerikkka. Yet, that work hasn't changed amerikkka one iota from Emmett Till to Sandra Bland.
Get angry, stay angry at people demonstrating, ambush is really the only way to either make these candidates address a very important issue in a real time way or show that only 'all lives matter'. They had to think on their feet and they both failed. You like the others here are always trying to tell black people, in this instance particularly, how they should feel and act on those raw emotion surrounding these continuing murders and executions by the new massa. All this intellectual bullshit has not stopped the murder of black lives by the new massa enforcing the NEW JIM CROW law(s) designed to take the vote, deny civil and human right and even life itself from POC.
My eyes have been opened to the liberals and progressives on here claiming all lives matter to diminish the impact and import of the FACT that black lives have never mattered in amerikkka. Wonder about the importance of this demonstration and of #Black Lives Matter and its motives all you please, in fact, until the sheep come home. DOES NOT MATTER. So now I'm supposed to be suspicious because of your worry about funding. I say you are worried precisely because there is money behind #Black Lives Matter that can change amerikkka and allow some of the privileged to lose some of that which they fear losing.
Black people are getting sick of the deaths. What can the privileged on here NOT understand about that? It's pretty simple. A child in kindergarten can understand the anger and frustration. Why can't you who intellectualize violent death of unarmed POC at the hands of the new massa into all lives matter and white lives matter, which they always have?
Bernie and O'Malley should have been quicker on their feet and got what was necessary to keep this issue of racism alive and not pushed into the want ads section of national thinking. ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will REMEMBER SANDRA BLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will demonstrate for SANDRA BLAND. I promise, The progressives and liberals will not be able to forget SANDRA BLAND.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)are fed up.
How does it help to turn on each other?
heaven05
(18,124 posts)just putting people on front street, who are allegedly progressive and liberal, and showing where their priorities are. I'm glad Sandra Bland's murder, #Black Lives Matter outrage has pulled them from under their thin veneer of liberalism and has shown me and many here how many agree with Billyboy Clinton making it so easy to incarcerate black men by the hundreds of thousands. And they have been incarcerated for crimes white people are still walking around free from on parole or dismissed, or just plain jury seeing a zimmerman and saying go your way my son with our privileged blessing(s).
Our party is right of center and it shows here, big time. But they are not the power anymore. That's what they are fearful about. GO #Black Lives Matter!!!!!
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)state so I confess that I don't personally know a lot of Democrats from red states. But, on DU at least, I think there is mostly agreement on how seriously broken the system is. I think there may not be universal agreement about how to fix the system.
You'll get no argument from me on any of the incidents that have hit the news in the last year. My opinion is that steroid use and roid rage is running rampant within law enforcement, that an independent outside prosecutor should be appointed to prosecute every case. I believe this shit continues because no cop is ever punished even when it is on video tape. And it won't stop until a few cops get life sentences or are sent to death row.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)about our base of voters. I'm not so sure after reading a lot of BS diverting and diminishing the actions of POC that are extremely angry at the death of Sandra Bland at the hands of amerikkkan racists calling themselves police officers. I would agree on the probability of steroid use, "roid" rage, but I definitely would add good old amerikkkan pie racism to those two causes of this upsurge in racist killing(s) of unarmed CHILDREN, women and men of color by LEO's and just plain privileged citizens of this society.
I won't look for cops to get the death penalty or serve big time in any prison anywhere any time soon.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)just better informed because of cell phone cameras, etc...
I am speculating, but it seems like the presence of Barack Obama in the White House is like a worm gnawing at the brains of some people and they are lashing out at people of color, consciously or not.
I won't expect it anytime soon either, but independent investigations and unfettered prosecutions would be the right answer.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)
and "independent investigations and unfettered prosecutions". True. I like the "worm gnawing" viz in my mind...so very vivid in my imagination. All those worms gnawing at all those brains.
artislife
(9,497 posts)You don't get angry about drunk drivers, MADD doesn't happen. You don't get angry about shoddy engineering, Pintos catch fire again and again. You don't get angry about taxation without representation, nations aren't born.
Frustration is just another motivator.
Both good.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)sitting back and letting the paid henchmen do the heavy lifting.
But average people need to be coordinated so as not to be pulling in 27 different directions. Most of the time we are all pulling in different directions until some galvanizing dynamic causes a critical mass to pull simultaneously in the same direction. And that is usually driven by frustration, disgust, or anger.
The have-nots have been treated like shit by the haves for a couple of decades at least. Some have it a lot worse than others. But if we can all agree that this shit must stop then we can probably affect some changes to the status quo.
2banon
(7,321 posts)in so many, countless ways..
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 05:36 PM - Edit history (1)
) that is a ZERO concern of what you deduce. Do you want liberals and progressives to forget the murder of Sandra Bland? That's your point? That is some seriously twisted compassion. Well really doesn't matter, and is typical of the last three days of responses by so many here, a lot who just want Sandra Bland's murder to go away. #Black Lives Matter won't forget Sandra Bland along with the countless others in, say, just the last three years who have been unarmed and murdered by the amerikkkan racist....you have a good one now, ya heah.... 
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Nail on head.
Here is the part about their planned outrages...designed to make us angry. They like to appear to be obnoxious, they think it is a good idea. They carry these ideas over into their Campus Leadership Program.
Unlike chapter-based political organizations, CLP clubs are unaffiliated with either the Leadership Institute or each other. According to Blackwell, this trait offers a serious advantage: "No purges." The clubs' independence also comes with the benefit of plausible deniability. "You can get away with stuff that you would take a lot of flak for doing in the College Republicans," says CLP director Dan Flynn. "Because we're independent, we can do activities that push the envelope," agrees University of Miami senior Sarah Canale, whose CLP-organized Advocates for Conservative Thought threw an affirmative action bake sale last year in which the price of a cupcake varied according to the race of its buyer. That it was controversial, she believes, was a victory in itself.
The Leadership Institute teaches the same principle. Controlled controversy -- making your point in a manner so bombastic that your opponents blow their cool -- is a Blackwell specialty. Before the 2004 Republican Convention, the conservative elder personally went to a drugstore and bought little pink heart stickers, bandages and purple nail polish. At home, he made the "Purple Heart Band-Aids" that he later distributed in Madison Square Garden to mock John Kerry's war wounds. From Blackwell's perspective, the Kerry camp's outrage at the gag was a tactical disaster. Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe, Blackwell says, kept the story alive for days by "running around like a chicken with its head cut off."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/7216
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 21, 2015, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)
is the new civil rights movement. No one else has spoken up for people since Trayvon Martin, THREE YEARS AGO. His killer got off in a rigged trial and it faded from view, except for the zimpig missteps with the law since then. No politicians looked into it with enough interest to keep it alive. The LAW had spoken. A racist murderer was free and clear. The New YORK, Cincinnatti, Ferguson, 12 year olf Tamir Rice cases, outrage then fade from general view. Ferguson got the politicians attention, good. Then after "the report", faded away. Baltimore scared the privileged because of the Nat Turner fear they carry. So people stood up and started looking with a few comments in support. But just like the BLM outspokeness, everyone concentrated on the violence and destruction in Baltimore and not the the underlying cause. Freddie Gray. Okay his killers are going to face some kind of trial, sham or not. Sen Sanders is starting to speak out and that is good. "Black Lives Matter" did NOTHING wrong. NOTHING!!!! Except put the focus on our candidates and a very serious problem that since Travon Martin, has not been seriously discussed.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)murders and brutality. And thus far, I'm seeing very little action from Loretta Lynch.
I'm not sure what the candidates can do to get Lynch to DO SOMETHING, but I'm sure Bernie will try if he hasn't already.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)he is on the right path, never said he wasn't. He just missed a couple of the paths in the forest with a lot of trees. He's starting to find his way out of that forest.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)And of course, the names associated with them.
I would hope she is already aware of these names, but if not, maybe Bernie and O'Malley will provide her with a list, and say those names out loud as they pass on that info.
(just in case)
heaven05
(18,124 posts)I also hope what you hope. The rest, hyperbole.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)she supports. No other candidate (Republican or Democratic) has that sort of weaponry.
Clinton's team is composed of tone deaf, entitled 1% types insulated from the chaos facing America's non-rich.
Ultimately, I don't think this is a negative. Both Sanders and O'Malley have a chance to take a few lemons and make lemonade.
Meanwhile, Hillary is in la la land portraying America as a land of perfect peace and harmony created by Wall Street's charitable benevolence.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)simply presented.....
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Those protestors want to support someone who supports them. All you have to do is prove it NOW - not by what you've already done, but by what you're going to do NOW.
The only way Bernie or O'Malley "look bad" is if they don't respond with integrity and respect for the concerns raised by the protestors.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)“Black people are dying in this country because we have a criminal justice system which is out of control, a system in which over 50% of young African American kids are unemployed. It is estimated that a black baby born today has a one in four chance of ending up in the criminal justice system.”
Rather than listen the protestors shouted him down. He never got to finish talking about it. About 9 minutes in.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)It's not like that's was the last speech he'll ever have a chance to make. But for the protestors, this was a totally unique opportunity to make themselves heard.
As I've said elsewhere, the only way this event hurts him is if he fumbles his response. If he rises to the occassion he'll have their support and votes.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)He "answers" by showing them what he's really made of, by showing them that he heard him and took their message to heart in his future actions, by proving that he gets it.
And it's not just Bernie, it's also us white progressive supporters of Bernie who also need to prove that we're listening and hearing them. And right now we're not looking very good - all the whining and gnashing of teeth about Bernie being "hurt", instead of taking to heart the message that the protestors were bringing.
They're in our faces telling us to prove that we're really allies, and not just a bunch of politally correct white liberals who sadly shake our heads about endemic racism, but don't actually feel it in our guts because we don't have to - it doesn't happen to us.
I wrote this last night:
You know, I've been doing my best to process what went down at the Netroots forum ever since it
happened. It's pretty much the only topic I've been reading about over all these hours - I don't know how many different threads, plus a few non-DU news articles and such.
Anyway, it's taken me awhile, but after all that reading it finally hit me that those protestors did exactly the right thing. Yup, they transgressed bigtime - they pushed us nice white progressives totally out of our comfort zone, pissed us off, outraged us, inconvenienced us, messed up our nice candidate speeches, and sent bunches of us typing furiously on our keyboards about it.
Indeed, typing furiously on our keyboards... And therein lies the power of that protest. Instead of having the pleasant experience of cheering for our guy after a well-delivered speech, we were confronted with the stark reality that these sisters and brothers don't just get inconvenienced when their day doesn't turn out so good - they get murdered.
I don't want to be that nice white progressive who feels inconvenienced about a speech being interrupted. I don't want to sit in judgement over what's a "proper" way to protest. My life is generally not at risk just from driving down the road in my car and forgetting to use my turn signal when I change lanes. There a so many things I never have to think about because I was born white. So I bless those protestors for getting all up in our faces like they did - for making me really THINK about the why of their anger.
Yes, it was well done, it was necessary, and they were right to do it. Transgression is powerful. I thank them.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)There is an almost total lack of discussion, empathy, or understanding on this site right now.
Thanks for this. I'll stick around for another day.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Glad to know I'm not alone, hope you can hang in here for awhile yet. 
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)This site is not the place for me. The people I respect are either silent, gone, or simply drowned out. There isn't a whole lot of empathy here. This BLM and Sanders thing has turned what could be a point of learning, compassion, respect, and understanding into a mud-slinging fight about hurt-feelings, white priorities, and a damaged candidacy.
Unfortunately, the admins have chosen a site that encourages it and have simply sailed on. Their experiment elsewhere and the radical success that was have told me all I need to know about this place. I wish I could at least spend time in the groups, but...they're rather clique-y, and I've never once felt a part of that in my life.
But I will check in occasionally for gems like this post and your shit-stirring one later. Love your gardener quote, btw. I'll be around, just...one of the many who no longer finds it worth my while to post. I'm one of the lucky ones who has ways to occupy my time on real-life pursuits, and I don't mean that as a slight to those who do participate here.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)I cut way back a long time ago, and for most of this year have mostly been hanging out in the Fiction Group, and avoiding all the poltical stuff altogether.
I've been on DU for 14 years. Sometimes I've gone away for months at a time, but I guess I'm sort of addicted since I still come back. 
I'm very happy to have made your acquaintance, and I selfishly hope you'll still pop up here once in awhile.
This is spot on:
Obviously, I feel the same way.
Thanks so much for conversing with me. I've enjoyed it very much.
Peace.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Come on, why not just let it all out and call them "thugs"?
I mean, how dare they interrupt a politician? How dare they inconvenience all the nice polite white folks who came to hear him?
Pretty damn uppity of them, amiright?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I guess that would make them dumb asses.
And get out of here with your not so subtle insinuations of racism.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)When you talk about them like that it offends us personally. Do you want to be sorounded by a sea of white faces, or do you want to grow his base of support? Trashing black lives matter and calling them names hurts you with black voters. After the way the activists were trashed here so thoroughly yesterday, I pulled my support from Bernie. I do not feel comfortable supporting the same candidate as people who lack empathy to this degree. (That and him cancelling)
It happens all the time here; white progressives find black people who upset them and write thread after thread trashing them with glee. It looks terrible. If they piss y'all off enough, then they are ingrates of a sort. I'm telling you this because you seem like it might actually help you see what's going on, many of these folks are lost causes.
This is what I felt like in GD yesterday. Like Sofia: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-AFGJu44JthY42/the_color_purple_1985_mrs_millie_is_hysterical/
Click on the link and watch. You guys sound like Miss Millie. If I were sounding like here, I"d want somebody to stop me. You guys have to check each other. Don't be a group of white folks sitting around screaming invectives at black activists. It looks terrible.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I say this as a person who fully supports their cause and message. They did a great injustice to themselves.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Seriously. Y'all are getting called Standers now. It's a cross between Stans (maniacal fans from eminem's song) and Sanders. Stop it!!! Don't become a hashtag.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)He was marching with the civil rights movement. He has addressed racial disparities and fought against them for most of his life.
And yea, I'm supporting Bernie in the primary. But I'm not against Hillary Clinton. I'll have no problems pulling the proverbial lever for her if she is the nominee.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We already know, better than you. It's paternalistic and condescending.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)I'm just being honest about Bernie Sanders track record. If that makes you uncomfortable, thats your problem, not mine.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
White people lecturing black people on civil rights on the internet. There are white college kids right now bombarding well educated black liberals (even college professors) about civil rights and black history. It makes me irritated for people to teach me things that they need ME to teach THEM. I'm very well versed in my OWN HISTORY. Lol!
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Sorry if that hurts your precious fee-fees.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Folks disagreeing with you and debating you is not bullying. I suggest you grow a thicker skin if you want to survive the Internet.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)his supposed strong civil rights commitment by taking those BLM protesters who were right in front him as seriously as he takes his canned speeches. After all the brouhaha that he is Mr. Town Hall and the admonishments about other candidates who won't drop everything to town hall with him whenever summoned, he came off looking rather inept.
How hard would it have been for him to at least acknowledge the protesters and made them feel significant by at least telling their story to the camera.
He's had 30 years in politics, and he couldn't figure out a way to embrace them or give them some feeling of empowerment while also taking control of the situation and making himself look good in the process. He could have given them his or his staff's contact numbers and said on camera that he will meet with them. Then he could have parlayed all that into several photo ops (he needs the free press since he said he's not taking money...). Instead, his free press is going to be clips of his irritation and his selfish focus on his applause talking points. Maybe we're seeing why he's hid out in Vermont for 30 years in one of the lowest population states where he doesn't have to deal with much diversity on an everyday basis.
I have to shake my head at the insinuations here that Bernie was victimized by the protestors like it's everyone's job to make Bernie look good. It's HIS job to make himself look good, and this could be a glimpse into his capabilities and true nature. He doesn't want to be bothered unless it suits him. Now juxtapose that with another defining moment for a campaign: the Clinton/Bush debate when Bush looked at his watch like he was bored, but Clinton rose to acknowledge the questioner and say "I feel your pain."
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)2banon
(7,321 posts)
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Okay. Somehow I don't think that works very well, but, whatever...
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)of our generation, you can stomp your feet & claim disrespect all day long but until these candidates start to truly address the social justice issues that we find important this will continue to be their problem. Every time Sanders starts to talk about social justice he diverts to economic justice those don't mix for the BLM movement & won't help him win us over. Bernie hasn't marched in decades for social justice so that talking point is moot for us, either he really starts to listen to black voices or he looses their vote. It's his decision. Our families lives depend on it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)“Black people are dying in this country because we have a criminal justice system which is out of control, a system in which over 50% of young African American kids are unemployed. It is estimated that a black baby born today has a one in four chance of ending up in the criminal justice system.”
Rather than listen the protestors shouted him down. He never got to finish talking about it. About 9 minutes in.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)
I think he handled it quite well. And yes, once you demand someone address your concerns, it makes sense to STFU when they begin to do so.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Not the fact that our children our unnecessarily racially profiled, sent from the school to prison pipeline, under educated, murdered for their skin color, etc. We want these issues addressed, not his blathering about bullshit economic policies that 1. He doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting passed & 2. Aren't going to keep my kid's alive long enough to live a long happy life.
Without social justice, economic justice means nothing.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)You said:
. Yep, he was spinning it back to the unemployment bs.
He was saying:
“Black people are dying in this country because we have a criminal justice system which is out of control, a system in which over 50% of young African American kids are unemployed. It is estimated that a black baby born today has a one in four chance of ending up in the criminal justice system.”
Those were his words before they shouted him down again.
You think unemployment is bull**** ? I will bet there are millions who disagree.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)that are occurring in this country which is why I said he slinked it back around to unemployment. The BLM movement is concerned with the fact the our families are being torn apart by the fact that our family members are being murdered for no reason & with no repercussions. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the unemployment rate. My son could be running to baseball from school simply bc he is running late & runs the chance of being shot by a cop because he has headphones in & doesn't hear the cop say anything to him. These are very real issues for us & by far outweigh a lot of the other issues he is running on because BLACK LIVES MATTER.
I want my children to be able to wear headphones & run without the fear of dying at the hands of a trigger happy cop, simply because of the color of their skin.
Unemployment can be fixed, but it won't do a damn bit a good if they keep offing us. Sanders needs to understand that our lives are on the line every single day, every time we leave the house & at this point he just doesn't seem to get it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Every time he is asked a question regarding a social justice issue he somehow swings it back around to economic justice, thus my reasoning that he is incapable. Maybe he's just unwilling.
NanceGreggs
(27,813 posts)What an excellent, well-spoken, and thought-provoking post.
Really, really well done. Thank you.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)hung in a jail cell is outweighed by a job. Hell Sandra Bland was heading to one of those jobs. What the hell did that job do for her? Come on!!! She conquered the economic injustice, she was supposed to start a good paying job the next day after arriving in that Texas town. WHERE IS SHE NOW!!!!!!!!! I bet millions understand what I'm saying and agree with the fact of the false equivalency inherent in this economic parity=racial parity. BS!!!!!!!!!
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Thank goodness, you're on this thread with me. 
tblue37
(65,273 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)You do not believe Sanders can get anything economic passed. Okay. I can see this argument. A reactionary congress is going to be the absolute bane of progressive economics.
However, assuming the same congress is in place... how is anything on that racial justice agenda going to get passed? I have trouble imagining that the same congress that would throw out a jobs bill, that would throw out an education bill, that would spurn an income equality bill... would then extend the hand of bipartisanship and racial equality.
Maybe I'm just cynical or uncreative. How do you see that working out?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)And make national standards and practices for policing.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)your comment falls on deaf ears and the proof of your comment being true is Sen. Sanders starting on race and then going to the 50% youth unemployment as a problem that, as implied, if that rate falls with a "living wage" jobs program aimed at that underprivileged group, then racism will "magically" disappear. They just don't, can't understand racism at the gut level. It's all intellectual with the privileged economics is magic group. I agree with you 100 percent.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)booed, that's his answer to everything & it's the wrong answer for those of us living in a different world. The problem is all of them think they can just kind of brush over it & everything will be ok & that's just not the case anymore. It's time for them to put up or shut up.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,168 posts)I am seriously astounded at this thread and the likes of yourself attacking a long time civil rights champion. You should be ashamed and so should those ignorant childish and rude folks. Thinking they were making some kind of point when all it showed was an embarrassingly classless behaviour that we usually only see at Tea Bagger events.
There is no magic wand policy he could present that would suddenly evaporate all racism in America, especially ingrained institutional racism. But employment policies and justice system revamping will help the country as a whole and ESPECIALLY minorities like African Americans because they are the most affected by this institutional injustice! Is that really that hard to comprehend?
Seriously you cut off your nose to spite your face. Unfreakinbelievable.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)would they vote for Capitalist Hillary or don't vote at all?
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)But the fact that I keep getting to listen to ppl telling me that he is the greatest civil rights nominee ever is absolute bs. So what if he marched 40+ yrs ago? Now all he does is provide lip service, he wasn't out there when Ferguson went down & he didn't show his face in Baltimore or when anyone else was brutally murdered. He needs to either put up or shut up just like the rest of them.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I did not know that was a racist thing to say until lately.
Did you read my post? I posted what he said recently.
druidity33
(6,445 posts)at the legislation Bernie has crafted, sponsored and voted for regarding Race matters in the last 35+ years?
TM99
(8,352 posts)though he did speak out in the media at the time.
But guess what?
Neither did Clinton or O'Malley.
Clinton only went to a church NEAR Ferguson a year later and then blundered out 'all lives matter'.
Do you hold all Democratic candidates to this standard if you are going to ignore their history good or bad with our community?
haikugal
(6,476 posts)I want to bring something up here. One of the things that we are dealing with is the fact that many young adults have never had the experience of having a genuine person with their interests at heart for a candidate for president. They, and we, have become cynical and jaded by the third way and the abuses we've all suffered.
As young people some of us had the experience of just such candidates. We also had the experience of having them assassinated. There is a huge gulf between the young and some of us older people in this experience. They know their history, we lived it. I bring this up in order to remind ourselves to be patient teachers not as another way to divide us.
I am hopeful for a candidate for the first time in decades. A genuine, caring, honest person is running for president, and he has solutions and can lead! To say I'm thrilled is an understatement.
There will be dirty tricks and filthy smears. We've all seen it before and we will not stoop to that level. We will fight clean and smart, but fight with everything we have in us to see our candidate succeed.
Remember the young have not seen this before.
jalan48
(13,853 posts)DamnYankeeInHouston
(1,365 posts)
jeff47
(26,549 posts)jalan48
(13,853 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts) John Poet
(2,510 posts)That's what got her booed at Netroots in 2007.
whereisjustice
(2,941 posts)jalan48
(13,853 posts)antigop
(12,778 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Yet he stands strongest for the needs of those condemning all over the internet.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)I'll address this tonight if I have time, I need to get to the library before it closes. Listen to Scarletwoman, Mad. She gets it. She really really gets it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)No matter who does it.
No, I don't get why they shouted down a guy who has been voting for things that matter for years.
It worried me for our country.
Is it a popular view? I have no idea. But when I was watching I was getting sick inside from the shouting...wondering what the rest of the election time will bring.
F4lconF16
(3,747 posts)And you're one of few people on here I feel like it's worth voicing it to. I'm on my phone right now, I have no internet since I just moved. I will type up what I feel about this elsewhere, and hopefully post it tomorrow. I'll let you know.
But I very much disagree with your interpretation of this.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)But many other people are as well. I see a strong need for groups like BLM, in fact I donated near the group's beginning.
But in this case it painful to watch. It was like they were breaking the candidates so they would say just the right words and take just the right stances.
They are going to keep doing it at every debate.
They are still going after Bernie in ugly ways on a couple of twitter sites. They've made him a joke. I was accused of saying "they" the wrong way so I will clarify I am talking of BLM.
The other day I said the candidates had to be thoughtful in their speech because they were running to be president of everyone. I was attacked for that as well.
They did it to the one candidate they can trust the most.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)But it saddens me to see how many think shouting down Bernie and O'Malley was a good thing to do. It surprises me, and I admit it hurts to remember that shouting and chanting as our candidates had to stand there and take it or be damned.
They were invited to take part, then they were ambushed.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Those protesters weren't against him, they just wanted him to listen and hear them. They presented him with a wonderful opportunity to rise up with them and bring their message with him.
There's no loss, there's no damage, there's only a new opportunity for growth. Not just for Bernie but for his supporters, too.
We ought to trust that Bernie has it in him to meet the challenge, we ought to have faith in him.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It will take time for all that to play out. It's not just about Bernie, it's about other people also.
It's about why a group would do this to a good candidate that had been invited.
It's about the fact that what I'm reading at Twitter and a couple of other forums and articles that indicates that maybe no candidate will be good enough in the long run...that if every single wish is not gained there may be no voting at all.
I don't want to believe that.
I am taking a chance posting about this issue. I have lost friends here because of it. I am shocked at how many accept yelling down candidates as simply okay.
It's too soon to say no damage was done.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)In another thread, someone said he had a meeting scheduled with the Black Lives Matter people after the end of his Southwest tour. This is exactly the right thing for him to do, and there's no reason to think that he can't do what it takes to build up trust within the AA community if he follows his good instincts.
I honestly don't get why anyone should be so down about what happened. It has the possibility of being a fantastic turning point in building up a real, authentic coalition between POC and Bernie's white progressive supporters. What could be better? Don't we want the AAs on our side?
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)who was bothered by yesterday.
As I say, it will play out before one can say no damage done.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)It was one speech. He had nearly 1200 people at a rally that same night, including lots of POC. He had another 8000 in Dallas, TX today. He's all over Black Twitter and most of it is hilarious - that's the end of the name recognition problem in the AA community!
I don't get what there is to be disturbed about, I really don't. Bernie's moving on, most likely onward and upward. He'll only keep getting better. And if he does this right, he'll have the AA community behind him.
Let yesterday go and move ahead. It was important for the BLM people to do what they did, I think we should honor that instead of stewing about it.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)at candidates who were invited and came in good faith...is acceptable behavior?
I must be just getting too old to appreciate behavior like that from any race, any ethnic group.
No I can no more let yesterday go than the BLM people can stop doing what they plan to do....taking over every debate.
I have great understanding and appreciation for why this group is needed. Actually I have been accused here many times of being racist, I have the experience of teaching and learning and helping myself and others cope with integration of the schools in the South. I am not stupid, nor ignorant. I would like to say I'm not racist, but them's fighting words around here.
Also at Twitter and at sites of other members is the clear understanding that they will not vote at all unless a candidate toes every line they draw.
That is not reality. It worries me for our party.
I have lost friends here over this, but so be it.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)are in constant danger?
Then weigh that against the inconvenience having a politician's speech interrupted.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to fault the protesters. And that event was no kind of fatal wound to Bernie's campaign.
As for whether we have the votes of the AA community, that's up to us - the Democratic Party isn't owed their votes. The Democratic Party owes THEM, and it's only right that we listen carefully to what they are saying.
Please try to cheer up - we're working a revolution here, right? And as Emma Goldman said, "If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution." Slough off that gloom and go gladly into the future with confidence that we and our candidate can handle the work ahead of us.
Peace.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)But because he spoke the right words today means they will go after him tomorrow for something else. I have seen several say that.
They have plenty of money, funded well from what I read. They can do the same to Hillary for her stances that ended up with many jailed over minor petty crimes.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)But it failed when the OP was hidden
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)back to a past that never was.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)If he doesn't I have to question motives.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)It is being demanded that Bernie speak frankly and directly about police brutality that targets black Americans - and when multiple examples are presented of Bernie doing just that, those criticizing Bernie won't give him an iota of credit. When you try and point out the many ways in which Bernie has spoken to and legislated for the need for racial equality, you are attacked.
The bottom line truth of the matter is this: there is absolutely nothing Sanders can say or do to appease his critics on this score. Given that, I cannot lend any credence to his critics.
The Black Lives Matter movement is important, and they should be heard - more importantly, people in power should take steps right now to address their concerns. But Bernie Sanders is not deserving of the ire directed his way. He's being used as a stand-in for Business-As-Usual Political Culture - and it is right and good that thus culture be soundly criticized - but Bernie is not "business-as-usual". That would be the front-runner.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)While you are up here venting and screaming and miss millieing about those HORRIBLE BLACK ACTIVISTS, you are making it a sure thing that black folks are repelled. It drives us away.
Soon Hillary will show up at a black lives matter rally, wearing a dashiki, eating a bean pie.. And while you're screaming PANDERER!! She'll cha cha slide herself right into the nomination.
You look bad. This looks bad. I wish you would stop proving the point that BLM tried to make. You are proving black twitter right, well they are right but, still. All the lecturing and paternalism and stuff, it exactly what they say about white liberals. This what you are doing. Instead of trying to learn from those who ARE NOT LIKE YOURSELF, your way is right and others should conform. That's call white proveledge Flo. You are being it right with all of these ops trashing those black activists. Stop.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts) bravenak
(34,648 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)spokesperson?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The cluelessness of white liberals is trending. She hits all of the points that they are making about white liberals in her ops. Fuck I wish white folks would listen to their black friends about race shit.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Is the President and his AG not listening too?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)addressed by all candidates. If your candidate can't handle it, too bad. He will lose.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"addressed by all candidates" but not the sitting, elected President and his governmental power?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)to stop this murdering. Obviously you don't, so which allies have the wherewithall to stop it NOW?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Racism is not black people fault, it's white people. Saying they won't care about BLM unless we behave the way they want just makes us say, so? You never did if you can say that with a straight face. Maybe white people need to work on racism? Listen more than they talk? Stop lecturing black people on the internet about civil rights and Dr. king? Stop trying to bully us into voting for sonebody by repetively repeating that they marched before you were born!!! Stop trying to think that we are going to be moved by all the talk of economic justice that we wont get since we'll be dead or in jail. Be honest about why there are so many black people in jail. Were not bad, it's fucking racism. Racist police, racist prisecutors, racist juries, ravist guards, and racist people who pretend to be your allie until you start demanding your right TO LIVE and then your 'allies' start bombarding black people all over the internet with lecture on history that WE ALREADY KNOW ITS OUR HISTORY. The act paternalistic and talk down to you like a child and they act like THEY ARE THE VICTIMS. Look up miss millie from the movie the color purple. You guys are acting like her. Sigh.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)the people in power that can help change this NOW, Obama and Lynch, why? Is it because it doesn't fit into your narrative of "not black people fault, it's white people", while even Bernie and others would be allies.
We stand for truth and tiptoeing around the President and the full force of his Governmental powers is telling.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)White progressives have been using that tired line to bully and beat up on black people and do not even see how racist it is to ask black people why the black man has not fixed racism yet. You seem to think that racism and racist policing is the sole responsibility of that Black man and that Black woman and you don't see how racist that is to ask me that? Over and over I see it. Why hasnt Obama fixed racism? What about Holder? Lynch? They name black people like that not fucked up. Not one white progressive has done more than Obama and Holder and they do it while fighting racism agaisnt themselves, from the right and the left!
And here we have all these white liberal threatening not to 'help' black people anymore because they got the feeling hurt. See how fucking easy it is for them to deflect and try to make sure they have absolutely no responsibility to do jack shit?
All the black wenbsites are talking about how terribly they are being treated by racist white liberals. You should be checking your friends not asking me why Obama hasn't fixed racism yet. Sean Hannity and Fox News make that same point day after fucking day. Why do you want to try that shit? Does it feel good to sound like Fox News on race issues? I'd fuking hate it.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)"day after fucking day" Does it "feel good" to be a Fox regular?
What a cope out. It's not any black man, it's the President of the USA and all his Governmental power.
" not one white progressive has done more than Obama and Holder" Specifically again, what have they done to stop the murders, incarceration and black unemployment?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
aspirant
(3,533 posts)who can't answer Obama's and Holder/Lynch's accomplishments on incarceration, murders and Black unemployment.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)"not to vote for Sanders" I think that was your plan all along
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Why don't you do me a favor and find another Black chick to BULLY FOR SANDERS. You are helping him so much I want to help you take it to the next level. Go condescend and paternalize somebody the fuck else.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)and now you want me to do you a favor. Do yourself a favor and move on
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I guess you feel like I owe you something, huh. You are a Stander. Go bully somebody the fuck else.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)
6chars
(3,967 posts)commence! this is incredible.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)& once again try to explain to the misinformed on this board how minorities in the real world are reacting to the rantings of privileged white liberals.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I don't know where we will find enough wood for all these Martyr crosses.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)
NOLALady
(4,003 posts)
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Are you ready to take on that mantle and represent the entire black community? I'm sure as hell not ready to be responsible for the white community.
To be sure, you have solid ground to stand on. You know much more about being an African American in the US than I or any other white person ever will. And you're damned sure a better spokesperson than some non-PoC around here who are having a great time playing with their brand new cudgel--swinging at Sanders supporters like there's no tomorrow. But believe it or not, white people think stuff too, and sometimes we type it on DU.
Madfloridian has earned her say here. She's always been a kind soul and a thoughtful person. She has just as much right as anyone to weigh in on these issues. There are some here--and I don't think you're one of them--but there are some people here who are playing the "I can't believe you said that" semi-veiled accusations of racism that they know are bullshit. They also know race issues are third rail territory, and they're using that as a way to hide and snipe and play really dirty political games. And it's not just one person doing this.
Black lives matter. They do, irrespective of hashtags and new activist groups. Corrupt and violent pigs also matter. They need to be dealt with, harshly and publicly. Their victims are disproportionately black. But their effects are felt far and wide, and there are those of us who f-ing HATE corrupt cops, and we'd feel that way irrespective of what one group or another advises. So people can challenge Sanders all they want. He's a big boy and he can handle himself but it would be a mistake to think its therefore ok to slam Sanders supporters and accuse them in some veiled way of racism. That's just not going to be true in most instances. I feel the way I feel about cops for my own reasons, and those reasons have to do with me and the world I want to live in. My reasons are selfish. But I would think that the way I feel lines up pretty nicely with the way I perceive most people of color feel. We should be natural allies; that's all I'm saying.
Before I send this, let me say that I don't relish the idea of arguing with you. It's not what I want, and it's also a daunting prospect. But look at the OP. MadFL is clearly upset, and you've appealed to her to stop with her lime of reasoning. Even if you disagree, why can't you let her have an outlet to have her say. She isn't harming anyone. She's acting in good faith, obviously.
Not all of this is directed at you. I really haven't posted on this topic yet--I've been collecting my thoughts. You're not responsible for everything that's said on DU that I disagree with. Anyway, I kind of went stream-of-consciousness with the middle part of this post, and I went a little far afield from just replying to you..
bravenak
(34,648 posts)She may be upset be this looks terrible. Op after op denigrating the black protestors by angry bitter white liberals. I think I may be done on this site if this is what I have to see. This is why there are so few of us left.
840high
(17,196 posts)I give the black community more credit than that.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)electrical work done at my house. The workers were black - we got to talking about what was on the news. When mention of Hillary came on - everyone of those workers made a face. I asked why - one guy said "she has too much baggage and can't be trusted."
bravenak
(34,648 posts)And her ass knows how to hire black folks and show up at functions. That does alot.
I've been saying and saying that Bernie needs to hire black staff so that he know about what we talk about. It will grow his support. This whole meltdown is having the opposite effect and turning off supporter from Bernie before they ever know much about him. Serious.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Where was she at NRN?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)Good, video links please so we can see how the Champion handled it
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Will be wonderful to see how she responds.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Well that sounds like a fearless, rough and tough Champion that will take every challenge face on.
So we can assume BLM has perused her event schedule and is notifying it's members of the when and where? They have already talked about the debates, when will this take place?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Want them too. Those unruly negores. How could they?? AFTER ALL HE'S DONE FOR THOSE PEOPLE!! THE RUDENESS?? Why not Hillary? Why? Why? Why? Why? So busy complaining that you have no time to listen to what us black people want. The stuff you want will help them to so they should just do what you want. Who cares that they will be in prison or dying in the street? Pffft!!! Those rude unruly black people. If only they would act like you then everything would be better. Well, your pretty safe from a cop strangling you on a jail cell, but, whatever. If they were more like you that wouldn't happen to them. They should just go be white already. It would make everything so much easier to deal with. All those emotion over dead black people. How could one support a group that works to try to save black lives if they're gonna HECKLE a candidate that you like. His speech was way more important. Maybe they could have learned something that would help them if they don't wind ip dead or in jail. Sigh.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)Obviously a fundraiser with money people is more important than BLM.
"Who cares that they will be in prison and dying in the streets"? Maybe the President of the USA who took an oath to "serve and protect" would be a good starting point.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)BLM publicity shouters are evenly distributed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Please please please go bully somebody the fuck else! For real!! Go do something!! Bye!
aspirant
(3,533 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)RandiFan1290
(6,229 posts)
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)I tried logic & reasoning, it's pointless. We should just know our place by now.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)It's truly getting painful, I actually got the line yesterday that my opinion must be a minority because "they know lots of young minorities in the real world that aren't concerned with social justice issues". They might as well have said of course I have a black friend.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
I wonder why their black friends always agree with them 100 percent? It's amazing!
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)I titled it Black Lives Matter & highlighted the fact that while it was all well & great that he marched during the civil rights era that was 40+ yrs ago & during the current civil rights issues all we're getting is lip service. That set off a shit storm & somehow I was automatically a HRC supporter. Even though we've been saying the same things since he announced his bid.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I told them while they boo hooing Hillary gonna cha cha slide into the White House wearing a dashiki and eating a bean pie. I don't even like her but I can see her like ''What it do, playa!', drinking a grape soda from the Oval office. They better stop before I keep making shit up and Hillary uses it.
LeftOfWest
(482 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)Showing "up at a black lives matter rally" and if she doesn't get shouted down too, then we and you should know this smells fishy . How do you explain BLM discriminating between candidates if attention and exposure is one of their goals?
Dressing up in a "dashiki and "eating a bean pie" and you say she wins the AA vote with this impersonation?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)"you guys are just"
bravenak
(34,648 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)and avoid the President and the full force of his governmental powers to be used NOW
bravenak
(34,648 posts)you keep raging at them about that BLACK MAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)to work with BLM
bravenak
(34,648 posts)to bully. Don't focus all your time on me. You can go and harass a BUNCH of other black folks and be demanding to them and force them to vote for Bernie because O'bama sucks. Won't work but have fun. Do not post to me anymore. You are bullying me for Sanders.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Nor Clinton's security either.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)an open and transparent government or a militarized Washington D.C.?
djean111
(14,255 posts)TM99
(8,352 posts)at Sanders past then they feel they will be safe from a close search of Clinton's past.
His is one of consistency, congruency, and real leadership on issues that few would support at the time (LGBT rights and Jesse Jackson come immediately to mind!)
Clinton on the other hand has a past full of lies (Bosnian snipe fire), inconsistencies, incongruencies, and political opportunism.
Honestly I will never know if Clinton supported Bush's little war because she agreed with PNAC or because she thought it would be political safe and expedient to support war.
The same is true for LGBT marriage rights. Did she really believe that bullshit about God, man & woman, and traditional marriage or was she simply pandering to get the votes she needed and wanted.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)Hell, he was talking about it less than 24 hours before Saturday's set-up, and it still didn't matter. But that requires listening. Marching and sit-ins and voting and getting arrested aren't enough. Words are needed. But talking about what's going on and his plan for doing something about it isn't enough either.
onecaliberal
(32,812 posts)At very high rates, we're just not hearing about it.
http://m.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/native-americans-getting-shot-police
According to the Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice, a nonprofit organization that studies incarceration and criminal justice issues, police kill Native Americans at a higher rate than any other ethnic group.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)I guess no one really cares. 
Thanks for that link, by the way.
onecaliberal
(32,812 posts)skepticscott
(13,029 posts)If Black Lives Matter is going to judge candidates by whether they truly understand the perspective and situation of black Americans, they will be disappointed. Bernie Sanders is white..he cannot truly understand, nor can Hillary Clinton or any white candidate, or any of their white suporters. To expect them to is not reasonable, nor is it reasonable to tear them down or regard them as irredeemably flawed or even enemies of social and racial justice because they don't.
onecaliberal
(32,812 posts)Holding Obamas feet to the fire in the same way. Or Holder. The POTUS and AG can do something now. Not in two years.
840high
(17,196 posts)
WIProgressive88
(314 posts)Last edited Mon Jul 20, 2015, 01:57 PM - Edit history (1)
at providing the proof, as this video does. Let's get that fact out there while also listening to the concerns of the African American community. We can do both, and it will put Bernie in a stronger position to win. We only become stronger by making our coalition more inclusive.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)So there are many others to present Bernie's stances.
I kind of paid a dear price for this post.
Thank you for not accusing me of something.
WIProgressive88
(314 posts)root of the criticism towards Bernie that is coming from those like Black Lives Matter and how it could maybe be addressed. I really didn't intend it to be directed towards you, so maybe my comments were misplaced. I certainly never meant to call you any names.
Again, I apologize, and I will edit my previous post to hopefully make my intentions a little clearer.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)WIProgressive88
(314 posts)Again, I sincerely apologize. My comments were intended as a bit of self-reflection in regards to what we, as a movement, could do to strengthen Bernie's support among African Americans, but they were clumsily articulated, and given that they were not intended as a criticism of you or your original post, admittedly misplaced. I always enjoy your posts, and I would hate if I had anything to do with running you out of GDP.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Here is a post of a video of a good presentation of the BLM statement and viewpoint.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017280207
I think it is excellent. You can understand what is being said, and the message is delivered effectively, poignantly. The Netroots Nation should have organized their meetings so that this message was made in the manner in which it is made in this video. That would have eliminated a lot of problems.
I wonder why the presentation by BLM was done in the way it was done? You couldn't even understand the names or the point of the presentation very well.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)You're really doing Bernie no favours at all by continually posting OPs and comments attacking the protesters, referring to them as 'hecklers', trying to 'prove them wrong'.
What people out in the real world see is a bunch of white guys attacking a bunch of black people - because they DARED to hold a protest demanding something be done about black people being murdered. It looks and sounds just like something the RW does.
You feel aggrieved that people keep calling you things? Then quit acting like what you're getting called. And quit trying to drive off black voters from Bernie by constantly attacking black protestors in the name of 'proving that Bernie is actually a great guy'.
You want black people to vote for Bernie? SUPPORT the causes they care about, don't ATTACK them. And quite frankly, attacking people protesting murders isn't a good look on anyone.
Quit whining about how misunderstood Bernie is, and what a victim he is, and start recognizing the victims who are lying dead.
Cause all of this 'defense' is pissing off people I want to vote for Bernie. They won't vote for him if all they think about when they hear his name is white people going on and on and on about how cruel BLM protestors were to him and how they're nothing more than 'hecklers'.
