How the fuck should I know? I'm just a lilly-white middle aged fat guy.

[hootinholler]

I don't know what to make of this whole BLM dustup, and by that I don't mean the BLM organization or the facts that prompted it, but the current brouhaha smells like a political operation.

The Bernie don't like PoC notion started from the right the day he held his announcement rally. It was picked up by some of Hillary's surrogates and echoed by her supporters "not good enough," etc. WARNING: There is a graphic photo of a black man portrayed as a hunting trophy at that link. A despicable (IMHLWO) attempt to subliminally associate Bernie with racism. Now it's morphed into Bernie isn't humble enough whatever the fuck that means.

Mean while, since before the not good enough thing, Bernie has been talking about these issues, but apparently he hasn't been heard. For instance, regarding Fergusson on June 6th:

Even earlier in August of 2014, and since, he has repeatedly pointed out the evils of the prison industrial complex, the effects of militarized police, but all that is discussed is that he only speaks to economic justice like they aren't intertwined. That all seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

And a number of times including today on MTP when Chuckie Toadlicker set a false preamble to his question on social justice.

Yet, after Bernie said explicitly what has been implied and I thought was understood, is being represented as Bernie finally reaches out to the black community. All I can really say about that is go figure, but then again I'm a middle age lilly-white fat guy, so what the fuck do I know about these things, but I am happy that his message about social justice is finally being heard.

From my side of my lilly-white filter, it all sounds rather contrived. Like a couple of BLM activists were egged on and caught up in their passion for their movement? Fuck, I don't know about that but what does it mean if that wasn't the case? I think it could mean that the BLM movement is rejecting the candidate that is best equipped to advance their cause, and that, if true, gives me a sad because he is the best candidate to address what I care about in addition to people being persecuted for breathing while black.

I've probably rambled on long enough to piss off everyone, so have at it. I remain totally confused by all this shit that just doesn't fit together. Like I don't have enough pieces of the puzzle for it to make sense.

[Live and Learn]

1. Contrived to take him off message is my take too.

There is no way anyone can believe that Bernie doesn't want to make black lives better.

[winter is coming]

17. There's been a lot of "contrived" going around lately. n/t

[Vincardog]

99. NO Bernie is TOO Humble He should say "I have been fighting FOR POC longer than you have been alive

I will not countenance criticism from any talking head who spouts this TRIPE".

[6chars]

111. that's the past. he has to EARN support

by saying things during a campaign, not just by doing things over a lifetime.

[Vincardog]

119. As opposed to? Which pol just has to SAY it during a campaign?

[BainsBane]

187. They ALL have to earn votes

None of them are owed a god damn thing

#earnthisdamnvoteorlose

Have you followed none of the discussion? Black folks want to know what he and the rest of the candidates are going to do to address CURRENT problems. We have a civil rights movement going on now. They want to know what he is going to do about that. He is in fact starting to address those issues, but you all seem determined to undermine that progress. What you proclaim is exactly the sort of thing that pisses off black folks.

[Vincardog]

231. You assert that a lifetime of fighting for POC counts for nothing. I ask which candidate you

support, based on what?
You say we have a civil rights movement going on now and want to know what Bernie is doing to help.

I say there can be no civil justice without economic justice.


How exactly do you see me undermining Bernie's progress?

What exactly would you have me do to help earn your vote?

[BainsBane]

237. This is about people of color

not me, and I would suggest you start by LISTENING. That is why I provided the Twitter feed so you could read what folks are saying.

[Vincardog]

249. I am listening you refuse to speak. You reply to me and make assertions. I ask for clarification,

You get huffy and demand LISTEN.

I am listening and hearing nothing.
Either make your point or get off the soap box.

[bvar22]

239. A 30 year history of doing the right thing...

...bears more weight with me than someone who has "just" discovered her "populism" in the last two weeks.

[KoKo]

247. ...!

That's what is amazing. We keep hearing about Bernie..."Well, that was 50 Years Ago!..What has he done Lately" and when his House and Senate Record is given as examples....It is Said: "That was 50 Years Ago! What has he done Lately!"

[jonno99]

128. Let me parse your statement logically:

"...he has to EARN support... by doing things over a lifetime. "

Ok, he's done that. Next?

[underthematrix]

129. Bernie has not been fighting for POCs since 1964 which is when he graduated

from the University of Chicago. Bernie was active in the civil rights movement WHILE he was in college. it doesn't make him evil. It just means you can't re-invent Bernie for POC communities and expect us not to push back HARD. My message to POCs is to make sure everyone you know who is eligible to vote VOTES. POCs should also be working with community organizations to make sure those people who were incaracerated, served their time, including parole, have their civil rights re-instated, which will allow them to register to vote. Bernie is not our issue.

I'm supporting VP Biden but my fall back position is HRC. We need to work on getting them the Congress they will need to get stuff done. I consider Bernie a side issue. The media hasn't dropped any of his shoes yet but they will. I figure it will start around mid-August. If I as an African American can get you Bernie supporters riled up when i point out Bernie does not have a civil rights record or that he has misappropriated PBO's policies as his own or that he has out and out lied on PBO then you're gonna be devastated when the media dogs come for Bernie and they always come.

[Vincardog]

133. I agree with you about Congress

[passiveporcupine]

151. And Hillary has?

Actually, Bernie has supported people of all color ever since he's been in office. And all people who are not part of the 1%. He hasn't changed. He just worked as a senator for a predominantly white state, so he didn't have a lot of issues of POC to deal with in the senate.

But whenever an issue came up on voting rights or descrimination of any kind, he always supported the underdog, poor, common man, discriminated against.

ALWAYS!

And he has never voted in favor of going to war.

He is an extremely good-hearted, kind man, who just cares about people (all people), and is not and never has been influenced by money or power.

Was he on message right away, considering the tone of racial issues in the US lately. No, but it wasn't because he didn't care, or that it hasn't been on his list of things to support. It was because he's been fighting this issue of economic inequality all his life and that is what is really resonating with the voters right now (finally), so he grabbed his chance while it was hot.

His first message is economic inequality, because it affects all people, not just people discriminated against. He felt that was the most important message to start with because that is the message that started his grassroots support rolling. And while there has been "some" improvement in race relations (no...not nearly enough), there has not just been no improvement in income inequality, it's been getting progressively worse each year.

He's on message now, because he knows now that he can't reach people if he doesn't explain that racial equality...hell all equality, is important to him, and he will fight for it.

It just feels like some of you have put the brakes on and now can't get them to unlock to even hear his message. And what is your alternative? Hillary? Seriously? You think she cares as much about inequality of any kind (other than women) than Bernie does?

And for those of you saying he needs POC in his campaign...how is he supposed to do that when he has such a small staff? He's not hiring a ton of people like Hillary is. He can't afford to. So he's working with a few people he knows. Let him know you feel this way and I bet he will try to hire some POC as soon as he's far enough along to expand and hire more staff. I unerstand why you want to see this, but on his budget, you can't expect him to be able to compete with Hillary or anyone else without the money to grow his staff.

[underthematrix]

166. Bernie can talk and speechify but when you drill into any issue

it's a about relationship and HRC has the relationships to build coalitions to get the work done. Bernie doesn't have that partly because he is NOT a member of the Democrat party. To build on PBO's work, you have to have a DIVERSE coalition. Bernie doesn't have that because he hasn't done the relational work.

[passiveporcupine]

168. I don't buy that

You think the ability to kiss ass makes someone a good prospect for POTUS?

Hillary has connections alright. So do the Koch brothers. That's not what this country needs.

[Jester Messiah]

234. "Kiss my ass publicly early and often and MAYBE I'll give you my blessing."

Yeah, fuck that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

210. But he STARTED the Progressive Caucus ...

in 3 ... 2 ... 1...

[Vincardog]

232. Bernie has been working for 35 years accross party lines to DO things. Your argument for a Diverse

Coalition excludes Bernie because he is not a REAL Democrat?

Cognitive dissonance much?

[Blue_In_AK]

245. Democratic(ic) party.

[bvar22]

248. HIllary can build "coalitions",

with Republicans, like Obama.

[Cha]

196. Mahalo for your post, underthematrix! All of it. take out a snip here, though..

"If I as an African American can get you Bernie supporters riled up when i point out Bernie does not have a civil rights record or that he has misappropriated PBO's policies as his own or that he has out and out lied on PBO then you're gonna be devastated when the media dogs come for Bernie and they always come."

He's "running against President Obama's legacy".. I can't imagine Obama being too happy about that.

[silverweb]

244. Exactly.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. If you don't know, maybe the best thing is simply not to talk about it.

Let Bernie do his thing, let him connect to the African American community, the Latino community, the Native American community, and just sit back and watch and listen.

[msanthrope]

3. This. nt

[bettyellen]

5. So much this.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. Did I stumble upon the wrong site?

This is unbelievable.

[Agschmid]

8. Yup.

[shaayecanaan]

10. And that makes three

Obama had to put up with plenty of this shit ("the Bradley effect", "Obama's Jewish problem" "Obama's Latino problem&quot . He just got on with the job, and didn't make it any more of a shitfight than it already was. A good model for following.

[brush]

11. He's getting there . . .

The NRN dust-up just made his camp realize that he had to step up his message more to African Americans as a huge part of the Dem constituency (and cut out the paternalisim and whitesplaining while they're at it).

You gotta cover all the bases of the Obama coalition if you want the Dem nomination, and that includes Latinos and Asian and Native Americans as well..

We all know that white progressives are with Bernie. He's got to let the rest of the coalition know that he's with us.

His appearance in Louisiana at the SCLC event signals that.

[jwirr]

22. I agree. But at the same time he has to gain name recognition all across the country with all races.

From what I can see on the reservation I live on he is pretty popular here - biggest problem is that many have heard the meme that he cannot win. I tell them that we will know if he can or can't before our state primary. They love what he has to say.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

78. Like I have said before.

Now is the time for a real progressive populist movement, but the message needs to be clear and not overly complex and it needs to be repeated over and over to drive it home into the minds of the people.

Then Bernie will win

[okasha]

137. Because "the people"

just won't understand the message unless it's "not overly complex" and is "driven into their
minds."

Jayzus. Unfuckingbelievable.

[sheshe2]

144. Ouch,

That is going to hurt.

okasha...

[okasha]

148. Let's hope it's a teachable moment.

[1StrongBlackMan]

211. >Teachable Moment" ...

[okasha]

219. Not that I have much hope..

[Ed Suspicious]

225. Not to disappoint you but the necessity for a simple message is for the benefit white people

as well as all other colors of people. I know you really want this "Bernie supporters are racist" thing to grow legs, but it's just not the case here. None of use feel the need to dumb it down for people because they are black. We feel the need to keep it simple because they are American. The average or the half of America that is below the mean as far as political awareness will benefit from a simple message. If you want to make it out to be pointed at black people exclusively, well then maybe you have the race perception problem. I don't know your color and I don't care. All I know is the message you are objecting to should be non-controversial, but many here are working overtime trying to stoke controversy. You do this to the detriment of Americans.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

217. Would it help for the message to be delivered phonetically ?

Thank you in advance.

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. Yeah this ...

I know it is difficult, as it means giving up control.

[AtomicKitten]

4. K&R.

[bravenak]

6. I was right there warning you all since the netroots nation dustup to NOT start a battle WITH black

folks. I asked people to stop complaining about the activist and being so nasty towards them.
Even DU got into the mix where they were sending mean, condescending tweets to black foks ALL OVER THE INTERNET. Bernies supporters reflect terribly on his campaign.

I got called 'race nagger', told to 'have fun in Baltimore' (that's racist, all black folks do NOT live in baltimore), told to vote republican, to get out of the party, that white progressives will now stop supporting black issues, basically got called an ingrate, told that Bernie has done more for black people that all of us black people (that is racist bullshit), got told abot 150,000 times that bernie marched for Dr King, got alert trolled by Sanders supporters (they leave fucked up comments in the jury decisions).

Bernies problem is he does not have enough people of color on his staff to help him get the black vote and he has to come to us and ask for support, we womt go to him.

But honestly, the way his supporters have treated black folks was so horribly paternalistic and blatantly racist, i see no hope for his campaign. Black folks will not vote for the guy woth the racist asshole supporters. We won't show up in force at the rallys. His fans behaved WORSE than republicans this week. I have never been harassed by republicans talking down to me and telling me to shut up, they know what best for me. Basically his fans have treated black folks like wexare stupid and owe bernie our undying devotion for everything 'HE'S DONE FOR US UNGRATEFUL PEOPLE!'

Now you know first hand, from a REAL black person who USED to support Bernie until his evil fans drove me off the plantation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. This place is unbelievable...

This place is unbelievable...It's as if certain groups are being admonished for not knowing their place.

People know about the Klan and the overt racism, but the killing of one's soul little by little, day after day, is a lot worse than someone coming in your house and lynching you.

-Samuel L. Jackson

[bravenak]

12. Real shit.

All this feigning innocence is pissing me off more. Now THEY are VICTIMS of us mean black people, that they have been talking crap about and harassing all week.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. They really need to step out of their homogeneous hamlets...

They really need to step out of their homogeneous hamlets, listen to people of color, instead of only talking to people who think just like them and look just like them and getting their own views shouted back at them and consequently thinking everybody thinks like them.

[bravenak]

18. I swear to god they need to listen to people who do not look like them.

[magical thyme]

13. you've made an awful lot of accusations against Bernie supporters. Do you have any links

to support those accusations?

Links to DU's sending mean, condescending tweets to black folks anywhere?
Links to you being called a "race nagger" and to "have fun in Baltimore"?
Links to where anybody said Bernie has done more for black folks than black folks have for themselves?
Links to any of your other accusations?

Because I've seen you attack Sanders supporters over and over again, but somehow missed all the nastiness you're claiming.

[bravenak]

14. I do not owe you links.

Do a search. I do not feel the need to satisfy your curiosity. It's fucking true. I'm too pissed tgat you do not just believe my black ass without links to do work for you for free. I feel like some here think black folks always lie.
REDACTED called me that and finally deleted it. Ask her.
Go find the ops I posted. Go look at Elon James twitter feed and see how badly whit progressives have been acting. It's NOT just at DU. It's ALL OVER THE INTERNET!!!!
Go look at Imani Gandy's feed on twitter. Leave DU and you will see the light.

[magical thyme]

34. If you're going to make accusations, it's a good idea to be able to back them up.

Otherwise, it just looks like empty claims.

I've never seen any posts by "Zorra" so that would explain how I missed the name calling. I will certainly look that up. If you were called a name, that violates DU's TOS and that post should be hidden.

As far as the twitter feed, consider the possibility that the offensive tweets could be from rightwingers or others posing as supporters in to damage Bernie, as opposed to his supporters. Certainly the mainstream media has been going out of their way to try to make him appear racist, when he most certainly is not.

His message is very much against the 1% and with him gathering so much momentum, I would be surprised if they were hiring plants to smear him early, before he gains too much ground.

I don't even know anything about any of his staff other than I think I've read that he's picked up a group who worked on Obama's campaign for online fundraising. I have read that at this point it is very small, out of 6 people the top 2 are people he's worked with for a couple decades. I honestly doubt he's picking staff based on their color; more likely how good they are at their jobs and how good a fit they are for his message. Do you have any specific people of color to recommend for his staff?

I do find it interesting that people are now picking apart Bernies' staff. I haven't read any comments anywhere about Hillary's staff or O'Malley's staff. By way of comparison, here is an article on Hillary's "people." http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/martin-omalleys-power-map-118441.html And here is an article on O'Malley's "people." http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/martin-omalleys-power-map-118441.html If the photos are any indication, they are all surrounded by a sea of white.

I suspect it may be more a matter of who is in the business than anything else.

[bravenak]

43. That post remained and I had to beg the poster to delete it. It is posted by DSB downthread.

Now, once you see that post you can try to just fight your disbelief and do a search. I do not feel like getting another hide by supporters who hate me. Since I'm being alert trolled and that is considered a 'call-out' I will not help them shut me up.

Yes. If he wants only white votes he can keep his lily white staff. If he wants black people to even givd him a secon look his staff needs black folks. He also needs Hispanics and asians and gays. His staff should look like the coalition he wants to represent. They can tell him why he's failing with our communities MUCH better than a white person who is not a part of our community.

He also needs to come to us. His message about the 1 percent and the oligarch dies not resonate with us. We are worried about life ir death in a immediate and cruel way. His economic message falls flat. Many of us are worried about our kids getting stopped by a cop and not making it hone. Dead kids don't go to college.

[magical thyme]

67. I already found it (or its copy) and see that the poster did self-delete it.

Did you see the link I posted earlier today? Sanders spoke to the Southern Christian Leadership Conference last night -- I found it on youtube this morning.

He does speak to the violence against black people in all of his speeches, emphatically. His mistake literally was in not starting his talks with that topic, and that is an honest mistake that was an easy fix. An honest mistake because discussions of the day can change very quickly. Sometimes, a message just has to be re-ordered for people to be able to hear it, which is what he has done.

I had written just last week that if I were his communications person, I would have him change the order of his speech to open with social injustice and the violence, esp by police, against black people and then move on to economic injustice and how it ties together. Both need to be fixed simultaneously; you can't fix one without fixing the other.

So I have to admit I was taken by his talk last night, because it's as if he (or someone from his staff) read my post...

[bravenak]

69. My opinion is that bernie's messaging is getting better.

Now he just needs to start taking that message to the people and spend some time engaging with the black and hispanic communities. I had posted an excerp last night in the AA group about his speech. I think me and marym posted the exact same excert independently. Funny how minds think alike.

[dionysus]

175. what has hillary done for you that bernie hasn't? this seems very personal to you. on DU hillary has

a ton of PoC support, and i'm at a loss as to why. She supports corporations and war. private prisons. these things disproportionately hurt PoC. I don't get it.

what has she ever done for you?

[bravenak]

176. I hate Hillary. But her fans are super fucking nice to me at all times no matter what.

That makes me comfortable. I like feeling like the people around me won't turn on me at the drop of a hat. I wouldn't feel safe at a Bernie meeting if I had a critisism. They let me speak and NEVER go on full on harrasment mode and bully black folks about Hillary. Seriously. I WAS supporting Bernie, but after this? Not voting in the primary. Have fun, y'all, I seem to be missing my candidate.

[dionysus]

178. i feel you, but deciding your vote based on what anonymous assholes (who may not be who they appear

to be) say on a message board; that I do not get. I bet half the people on here aren't who they profess to be...

if I judged candidates based upon what their "supporters" say on a message board.. i'd never vote for anybody

I went from "one of the most liberal people on DU" to a "third way obamabot"... I learned not to care what candidate's "supporters" say...

I haven't been on DU for a while and came back to this clusterfuck.. aiaiaiaiaiaia

[bravenak]

180. I know. If only it had been SOLELY on DU I would not be fazed.

But it wasn't. They had to go and fuck with every black person on the internet. Started a war with black twitter. Harassed our journalists. Harassed black folks at Netroots. Regisned from prigressivism because of reverse racism (that was a radio host). It was all over the place. White progressives just went all out to fight us and bully us into supporting Bernie.
I was so happy to find a candidate tgat was 96% my ideological twin. Sigh. Never give them the satisfaction after this war.

[dionysus]

183. wow. what the hell went on when i wasn't following DU and politics this year....

[bravenak]

203. Lol! Netroots Nation. :)

[sheshe2]

194. I love you as if you were one of my own.

Respect you, cry with you, share the joy of our President with you.

Yes, HRC supporter here, as you well know.

always.

Hey sweets, need more of the written word from you. I admire your passion.

[bravenak]

204. I love you too.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

63. Go through the last few weeks posts by 'Black Kos' group over on Daily Kos.

I think it was the Tuesday editions. They provided bios Hillary's people of colour on staff one week, Bernie's the next. O'Malley's might be this coming week for all I know.

[magical thyme]

117. Hillary has hired as many people of color as Bernie's core staff, but her staff is 10x the size

of his so I don't think they're really comparable. Hillary has been preparing for this campaign since before 2008. I just scanned through her staff list -- looks like it's closing in on 200, so 10 people of color out of 200 would be 5%.

Of Bernie's 20 or so people, 2 that I know of are people of color (the new member they discuss at Black Kos and one of the 4 people from the Revolutionary Message group that he hired). But he's only just starting to hire regional/state level staff, and as his campaign grows I expect his central staff will too.

Hillary's staff:
http://www.p2016.org/clinton/clintonorg.html


Bernie's staff:
http://www.p2016.org/sanders/sandersorg.html

[BainsBane]

190. I've seen them and plenty of us have

And you must have seen the posts accusing BLM of being a Koch conspiracy.

The post wasn't hidden, but two people who reminded her of it did get hides.

You need to do some research yourself about Twitter and the internet more generally. It's not exactly hard to come by. No one is responsible for spoon feeding you. You're as capable of using Google or looking on Twitter as anyone else. It's up to you to inform yourself.

[magical thyme]

49. so I found the "race nagging" post

or rather, the post itself was self-deleted, but somebody was good enough to have copied it and re-posted it further downthread.

It looked to me like the poster was responding to the article you'd linked to, not calling you a name. And although the poster is a Bernie supporter and the article addressing Sanders or Sanders supporters, but rather white progressives. Still, it was an awful thing to post and I'm sure that's why the poster deleted it.

[bravenak]

54. Yeah. Well that was just the icing on the cake.

[Cha]

188. BS supporters attacked you.. and you're telling them why it's not cool. But, some still won't

listen.. but some are. And, that's the good news.

And yeah, you do not owe anyone any links.. if they don't believe you.. that's their problem.

[bravenak]

202. This is like being on a bad acid trip. Everything is just wrong in some way. Bad vibes.

[Cha]

205. The arrogance is only surpassed by ignorance.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

19. It's a violation of DU rules to call out a fellow poster but I will leave you with this

I've already resigned myself to a complete republican takeover of the government in 2016.

All these threats and the race nagging has truly driven me to not give a shit anymore.

I'll vote for bernie in the primary and then maybe join the Green party if he doesn't win.
...'nuff said."

-name withheld

[arendt]

44. Just FYI

I have put you and bravenak on ignore.

You are utterly relentless and absolutely unwilling to accept anything less than that everyone abandon Bernie Sanders for offenses to whatever it is you think is politically correct.

This kind of behavior does nothing but polarize boards. And, I believe that is your intention.

Like all propagandists, you recycle the same talking points ad nauseam, and fail to acknowledge any evolution in your opponents. One person, once, made a specific remark - "race nagger" - and you will apply it to ALL Sanders supporters and NEVER let it die. It's the Dean Scream all over again, only its not the candidate who did it.

Someone noted that people who broadcast their liberalness in their name are often deflecting from their lack of liberalness. You certainly demonstrate that.

Goodbye.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. Bravenak and I wear your opprobrium and and ad hominems like a badge.

Last edited Sun Jul 26, 2015, 09:21 PM - Edit history (1)

And insulting someone and not giving them the opportunity to respond says more about you than it can ever say about me.

[Lilith Rising]

103. Bravo.

Thank you (both, and others) for fighting the good fight.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

106. The ironic thing is we responded to a call out... We didn't start this fire...

Do a search...I never start threads critical of Senator Sanders but when I am called out I respond.

[Lilith Rising]

122. No search necessary. I've been watching all of

this stuff roll out...

I was definitely excited when Sanders threw in, but I'm none too thrilled with his late addressing (and what I characterize as hostile response at the initial Netroots event and his interview with Chuck Todd) of the BLM movement.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

124. I am content to tout my candidate...I don't start bashing threads and I don't proselytize.

I am content to tout my candidate...I don't start bashing threads and I don't proselytize. if I do sway people it will be by example...

This is crazy... I remember when Bill Clinton was running for president in 92 and a man with HIV interrupted one of his speeches and said. "I'm dying of AIDS, your dying from ambition, what will you do for me?" Clinton empathetically addressed him... If there was a net then that poor man would have been crucified for being a GOP plant.


This is getting out of hand.

[okasha]

142. Congratulations.

Maybe, if I'm lucky, s/he'll ignore me, too.

[1StrongBlackMan]

76. I suspect that ...

Bravenak and DSB will wear your opprobrium and and ad hominems like a badge.

Further, insulting someone and not given them the opportunity to respond says more about you than it can ever say about the other person.

[zeemike]

79. Probably a wise thing to do.

I've been there in those conversations and they are always an appeal to emotionalism and the longer you try to talk or explain the greater the accusations become...and yes polarization is the objective.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

96. It's a cheap shot to insult someone and not let them respond...

If you are going to put somebody on ignore just put them on ignore and don't take a rhetorical dump on them in the process.

[zeemike]

101. I was not talking to you.

And I don't put people on ignore.
And there was nothing rhetorical about what I said...just my observations, if that is still permissible.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

104. I wasn't referring to you...I was referring to the poster who took the rhetorical equivalent ...

I wasn't referring to you...I was referring to the poster who took the rhetorical equivalent of a bowel movement on bravenak and I before putting us on ignore, thus eliminating the opportunity of either one of us to respond.

[passiveporcupine]

118. "It's a cheap shot to insult someone and not let them respond..."

I agree. And I think this should include groups. I think it is a cheap shot to insult Bernie supporters in the Clinton group, when Bernie supporters are instantly blocked from posting in the Hillary group if they try to say anything in response to those insults. Same goes for insulting Hillary supporters in the Bernie group. It just shouldn't be done.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

123. I have put people on "Ignore" but I don't tell them because I know they can't respond...

I have put people on "Ignore" but I don't tell them because I know they can't respond and that would be rude and I certainly don't insult them and then put them on "Ignore" and then insult them because that would be rude and pusillanimous...

The only "protected forum" I post in is the African American forum...If folks are using "protected candidate forums" to trash other candidates I don't like that.

[bravenak]

82. JUST FYI: I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THIS PERSON IS. I'M OKAY WITH HIM IGNORING ME. :)

[Cha]

149. Yeah, he's the one who is missing out. I would wear it as a badge of honor if he put me on "Ignore"

[bravenak]

156. I do feel rather pleased.

[Cha]

167. Quite so.

[pintobean]

93. Jury results

On Sun Jul 26, 2015, 08:25 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Just FYI
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=476205

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Utterly nasty post, beginning to end. Regardless of how you feel about the posters involved, this kind of attack is out of bounds for this board.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jul 26, 2015, 08:35 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Not going to hide this. Sorry, this whole sub thread is a fucking piece of shit.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seems like a righteous rant. And the alert seems disingenuous to say this is the worst in the thread. Hardly.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No it's not, it's par for the course.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Truth hurts.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. Thank you for posting it. I certainly didn't alert on it ...

Thank you for posting it. I certainly didn't alert on it but it's the epitome of pusillanimous behavior to disrespect and insult someone and not let them respond.

[pintobean]

108. You did respond

several times.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

109. As is my right....

As is my right.... I said I didn't alert on it...I did point out it's the epitome of pusillanimity to take the rhetorical equivalent of a bowel movement on someone and not let them respond to them.

[Cha]

172. So? What does that have to do with "Alerting"?

[pintobean]

201. Nothing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

218. Thanks for clarifying./nt

[heaven05]

97. You are on ignore for being so blind

Last edited Mon Jul 27, 2015, 01:30 PM - Edit history (1)

as to your privileged position in this society to talk down to POC. You really are an example of what we have been fighting for 200 years. To hell with Bernie supporters who are racist, even if it is just one as you claim, which Bravenak has proven is not true. No use in trying to burst that privileged bubble you live in. Stay in there, you're on the tracks and a trains a-coming..

[GoneFishin]

26. As a campaign tactic it's pretty easy to make all of these smears without proof, while

demanding that you must just accept and not question them because "there you go again!"

As Bernie continues to gain traction the the smears will increase.

But right now, since they have nothing on Bernie's policies, these false characterizations of Bernie are all they have.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

29. The suggestion that black folks can't do things by themselves and lack agency is appalling

eom

[GoneFishin]

48. It's a campaign tactic. Can't stop yourself from shamelessly trying to make it more than that,

can you?

But you have nothing on Bernie's policies, so I can see why out of desperation you turn to smears.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

51. I didn't call out a whole group of people on Democratic Underground

I didn't call out a whole group of people on Democratic Underground and rob of them of their agency in the process nor did I smear anybody. That's not how DemocratSinceBirth rolls...

[GoneFishin]

58. Really. You did not tar all Bernie supporters based on something written somewhere by

someone else alleging to be a Berrnie supporter?

[sheshe2]

165. Campaign tactic?

No, it is about their lives!!!!!!!!!!1

But you have nothing on Bernie's policies, so I can see why out of desperation you turn to smears.

Yet is okay for you to smear every PoC and AA out of desperation to keep your candidates hands clean. How ugly is that.

[GoneFishin]

213. You are confusing me with someone else.

Potentially billions of dollars are going to be spent trying to manipulate people to vote for the interests of mega corporations who have a stranglehold on our political system.

That is what all of this is about.

Whatever it is you are selling, I am not buying.

I suggest you move on to the next tactic in the campaign playbook.

[okasha]

59. It's worse than appalling.

I'm NA, and all I can say is that I'm glad Bernie hasn't noticed us, which means that most of the whitesplainers haven't, either.

[underthematrix]

114. You go my sista

[okasha]

140. In solidarity.

We'll do this together, for all our relations.

[brush]

31. You're kinda missing the point

It's some of his supporters that have rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.

Seems to me it started here with the battle against Hillary supporters and then spilled over to AA DUers.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. Which is ironic because the majority of them don't support her.

[Bobbie Jo]

83. This is true. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. The problem is they don't revere him either./nt

[GoneFishin]

50. You forgot the quotes around "supporters".

[brush]

150. I think I get what you mean . . .

that some of the "supporters" may not be actual supporters?

[sheshe2]

57. I read them all.

One poster had their Op hidden and frantically went to several threads deleting their posts.

As a campaign tactic it's pretty easy to make all of these smears without proof, while demanding that you must just accept and not question them because "there you go again!"

You are walking a fine line to calling bravenak a liar. She is not!

[GoneFishin]

61. You are confusing me with someone else.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

71. He asked for proof of supporters of a certain candidate saying certain things and I provided it.

Would you like for me to search for the post where a supporter of a certain candidate called a member of this board who happens to be gay a "sissyboy" ?

[GoneFishin]

75. Uh ... ok. Sure. Missed that post. But the poster sounds like a real asshole if he called someone a

name like that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

91. Again, calling out posters by name is prohibited

As Leonard's mother said: "Buck up, sissypants."

[okasha]

145. Would you pm me that link please?

Thanks.

[brush]

15. Woohoo, Bravenak! Let's see how they react to this.

Let's see if paternalism is still in vogue.

IMO that horse won't take you to the finish line.

[bravenak]

20. It won't stop. They know better than us what we need. Now if only they could shut us up.

[hootinholler]

23. I saw that disgusting comment

I was appalled by it.

But honestly, the way his supporters have treated black folks was so horribly paternalistic and blatantly racist, i see no hope for his campaign. Black folks will not vote for the guy woth the racist asshole supporters. We won't show up in force at the rallys. His fans behaved WORSE than republicans this week. I have never been harassed by republicans talking down to me and telling me to shut up, they know what best for me. Basically his fans have treated black fokjs like wexare stupid and owe bernie our undying devotion for everything 'HE'S DONE FOR US UNGRATEFUL PEOPLE!'

See, that's the thing I can't get my head around. I'm not sure that it is actually Bernie supporters doing that. Sure there are idiots in every crowd, but I have trouble thinking that the worst examples are actually coming from Bernie supporters instead of agents provocateur. There are several campaigns who are not above that sort of behavior. Is it at least possible that Bernie is being rat-fucked?

[bravenak]

28. If he's being rat fucked, it's by his own people.

I do not think so since I saw it happen in real time. Hell his folks called me a "Lee Atwater Plant'.
Some of the worst ones here are his biggest supporters. And the constant tearing down of Black lives Matters by his fans is probably the worst thing to do, but they are still up to it. I don't think they realize, even though I told them over and over, that when black folks hear the words 'Black Lives Matter', we get this positive feeling that thise people are fighting for our lives. And they ARE. Hating on BLM is the main thing pushing black folks away. I think his supporters spend too much time with folks who look and think like they. They are in a bubble. They don't know wht black folks really talk about when there are no white people around. And their black friends are either not gonna tell them either or are too disconnected from the black community to know what we are talking about. They seem to think that if they have a black friend or child or husband or wife who supports Bernie, that that is reflective of how the entire black community feels. We are not a monolith, but at the same time we do have our own culture within this culture and we know how each other feel since we constantly talk to each other.

I try to get white men to read black publications.

Try: The Field Negro (he is really good)
The Grio
Black Guy Who Tips
We Are Respectable Negroes (Chauncy DeVega)
Madame Noir
RH Reality Check


If you go check these out, you will get a taste of what we are thinking. I hope it helps.

[Number23]

47. Guess who will get the blame should Sanders go down?

You guessed it! We're already being primed and groomed as the latest version of the PTB that will keep the good man down. Who knew black folks had so much clout??!

I'm now seeing the "even if he changed his ENTIRE message, it won't be enough" bullshit. Oh my God, the WHINING and self-pitying is simply epic.

These people are MAD AS HELL that black people are demanding candidates have us on their staff and actually address about our issues. I mean they are MAD AS HELL, girl that we want to discuss racism and systemic discrimination. Are you feeling the love from the "WE ArE the 99 PerCenT" crowd yet??

[bravenak]

52. I am just about ready to Dexter somebody.

This 'nothing will ever be enough' bullshit is tired, lazy, whiny, crybaby martyr bullshit.
I'm glad to know we are powerful enough, hell black twitter is powerful enough to bring down the mighty savior. Good gods! I wonder if the dream about Bernie up on the cross while we all dance around him and jeer. Such drama!

[heaven05]

121. guess what I'll wear that blame with

Last edited Mon Jul 27, 2015, 07:38 AM - Edit history (2)

honor and will laugh in the face of the racist clowns on here who have themselves made this problem. I'm NOT going to vote for Bernie anymore precisely because of the racism and hate of POC by SOME of his supporters in the democratic party. I won't vote for the creeppublican, Hillary will get my vote. Don't like it, but that's just what his supporters have started in me. I am telling EVERYONE about the blatant out and out racism of some people in the Bernie group. People are coming back to me after I tell them to come here and what to look for in how that groups racists treat POC. They are pissed..... and are talking to people who are talking to people......and........

[Number23]

147. I will vote for whoever the Dem nom is but I agree, Sanders supporters have always, ALWAYS been

a deal breaker for me. As Tobin noted in his very QUICKLY locked OP in the Sanders forum, it surely cannot be a coincidence that the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who have screamed "not good enough!!" at every thing that Obama has done, have flat out said that he was "Bush's third term;" who have called him a "Trojan Horse" or "Republican lite;" who have impugned and smeared him at every given opportunity are the same ones ready to anoint Sanders. Are we SERIOUSLY not supposed to notice this??

I think they think that we haven't seen or that we might forget. That we are just supposed to overlook the nasty, hateful, deranged rhetoric against this president and give the old to their guy because... of something. For the life of me, I simply cannot wrap my head around the fact that such an honest guy as Sanders, who talks about such important issues and has such a strong record on social issues has as his most fevered supporters, people who consider social issues "distractions" and can barely hold their contempt in check for minorities. There is a major disconnect there. I don't get it and I never have.

I am telling EVERYONE about the blatant out and out racism of some people in the Bernie group.

You and about a million other people.

[sheshe2]

181. Thank you Thank you Thank you

As Tobin noted in his very QUICKLY locked OP in the Sanders forum, it surely cannot be a coincidence that the EXACT SAME PEOPLE who have screamed "not good enough!!" at every thing that Obama has done, have flat out said that he was "Bush's third term;" who have called him a "Trojan Horse" or "Republican lite;" who have impugned and smeared him at every given opportunity are the same ones ready to anoint Sanders. Are we SERIOUSLY not supposed to notice this??

I think they think that we haven't seen or that we might forget. That we are just supposed to overlook the nasty, hateful, deranged rhetoric against this president and give the old to their guy because... of something.

Lest we forget he was called a POS and RECed to the top of the page. They demand respect for their candidate, yet they never have shown any to our DEMOCRATIC President.

[Number23]

184. Exactly. 100% agreed

They demand respect for their candidate, yet they never have shown any to our DEMOCRATIC President.

[heaven05]

207. every word, true

succinct analysis of WHO they are that will cause Hillary to be the nominee in the GE. Their disconnect is called arrogant white privilege blindness and insulation from the real world where #Black Lives Matter. Always, always have been in a bubble of unreality and are still there today. That bubble is on the tracks and a trains a-coming...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

127. From what I've see so far it's Hillary that will get the blame.

[sheshe2]

161. Jeopardy question.

Alex: for 200. What caused the Bern to loose the primary?

Contestant: For 200, my answer, Blah people.

Alex: Yes! You are correct for 200!!!1!

#23 knows this is no attempted alerts please.

Hey you.

[Cha]

192. The tone deaf Bernie supporters.

Then Sanders wasn't that strong in the first place, was he?

Think of the biggest "epic" you know.. and this "Whinefest" far exceeds.

As I told brave in another post..

They forgot the lessons of Dr King when he and his supporters were fighting for Voting Rights in Selma, Alabama..

".: We're not asking - we're demanding! Give us the vote! ... Martin Luther King Jr.: That means protest! That means march! That means disturb the peace! That means jail."

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0030683/quotes

This is dialogue from the movie .. but you can see by their actions.. that's how they felt about it.

I just finally saw Selma last night.. all the way through. Bless those who Marched from Selma to Montgomery, Alabama.

Joshua Jackson ?@JoshuaKJackson
Dear White Progressives,

Black people don't HAVE to support Bernie or anyone. You don't own us & we don't owe you ANYTHING

#BernieSoBlack
6:10 AM - 19 Jul 2015 589 589 Retweets
865 865 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/07/22/chat-away-631/

[hootinholler]

86. Assuming you know who Lee Atwater was

Or is, I'm not sure if he's dead yet. Then I guess you would understand the accusation there. If you don't know him, it's worth the google time, but you can substitute Rove.

And their black friends are either not gonna tell them either or are too disconnected from the black community to know what we are talking about.

Are you saying there are black people who are not part of the black community? Not surprising when I think about it as there are many white communities, mostly around economic classes, birds of a feather, eh?

All that aside thank you for a considered reply, I'm assuming those are blogs and I will certainly check them out.

[bravenak]

89. Some black people are adopted or have white parents raising them.

It creates separation. Also, some do not seek out others from the black community, they isilate themselves from the rest of us. It creates a gulf between us and them. Like Ben Carson is disconnected from us so are some of the folks on the far left who are black, hate obama, talk down to the rest of us. Sometimes they are used against the community at large to say 'see, not all black people think that!' Even though in reality, most of us DO think like that.

[shaayecanaan]

139. "some black people are adopted or have white parents raising them"

like Obama, you mean? That guy who got trash-talked by just about every Black nationalist in the country before he was clasped to the bosom of white progressives in Iowa?

Obama’s relations with some of his black colleagues from Chicago were dreadful from the beginning. On March 13, 1997, Obama introduced one of his first pieces of legislation, a modest bill to make a directory of community-college graduates available to local employers. There was a response from Rickey Hendon, a state senator from the West Side of Chicago who had been close to Alice Palmer. After Obama explained his bill, Hendon, who has dabbled in film and television work, earning him the nickname Hollywood, rose to ask a question, and the following exchange occurred:

HENDON: Senator, could you correctly pronounce your name for me? I’m having a little trouble with it.
OBAMA: Obama.
HENDON: Is that Irish?
OBAMA: It will be when I run countywide.
HENDON: That was a good joke, but this bill’s still going to die. This directory, would that have those 1-800 sex line numbers in this directory?
OBAMA: I apologize. I wasn’t paying Senator Hendon any attention.
HENDON: Well, clearly, as poorly as this legislation is drafted, you didn’t pay it much attention either. My question was: Are the 1-800 sex line numbers going to be in this directory?
OBAMA: Not—not—basically this idea comes out of the South Side community colleges. I don’t know what you’re doing on the West Side community colleges. But we probably won’t be including that in our directory for the students.
HENDON: . . . Let me just say this, and to the bill: I seem to remember a very lovely Senator by the name of Palmer—much easier to pronounce than Obama—and she always had cookies and nice things to say, and you don’t have anything to give us around your desk. How do you expect to get votes? And—and you don’t even wear nice perfume like Senator Palmer did. . . . I’m missing Senator Palmer because of these weak replacements with these tired bills that makes absolutely no sense. I . . . I definitely urge a No vote. Whatever your name is.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/07/21/making-it

[bravenak]

153. He had to connect with the black community.

It happens often. Is there a question in there somewhere?

[shaayecanaan]

171. He had to connect with the white community

the simple truth was that Black people weren't going to sit home during the election of the nation's first Black president, and they didn't. Eventually even the Black nationalists who accused him of being an Uncle Tom got on board. That had nothing to do with Obama changing during the campaign. The simple fact is that people like to ride a winning horse.

Obama had many beliefs that put him at odds with the "mainstream" Black political establishment. This was one:-

In his 2006 book, “The Audacity of Hope,” Mr. Obama recalls sitting with a white, liberal Democrat in the Senate and listening to a black, inner-city legislator, whom he identified only as John Doe, speechifying on how the elimination of a particular program was blatant racism. The white colleague turned to Mr. Obama and said, “You know what the problem is with John? Whenever I hear him, he makes me feel more white.”

Mr. Obama finds a lesson in that moment: White guilt has exhausted itself. Even fair-minded whites resist suggestions of racial victimization. Proposals that benefit minorities alone cannot be a basis for the broad coalitions needed to transform the country, he concluded. Only “universal appeals” for approaches that help all Americans, he wrote in his book, “schools that teach, jobs that pay, health care for everyone who needs it” can do that, “even if such strategies disproportionately help all Americans.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/politics/29obama.html?referrer=&_r=0

If you reject Black people who do not hold "mainstream" Black views as somehow not being authentically Black, then you would certainly have to include Obama in that category.

[bravenak]

174. I have no clue what you are talking about.

My husband had the same issues being born to a white mother as did his sister. Like, I had to teach her how to do her hair right and he had to find his own ways to assimilate. We DO have our OWN culture. You can't learn it from books you have to live it. His sisters hair is STILL a disaster. That is what I am talking about. You never know what you don't know until you live that life fully.

[heaven05]

214. COMPLETE....wait for it....

complete BS. Waiting for white people to get past their "white guilt frustration" and get on with the business of accomplishing real progress in the way of racial equality and justice is like waiting for the 'Rock of Gibraltar' to fall into the sea. And just as long as that rock has been standing, white americans have been using that reverse victimization ploy to feel better about saying that black lives don't matter because white privilege and status is the only thing that does. #Black Lives Matter whether that rock ever fall intro the sea or not. POC know this for a fact, recent reminders from Trayvon Martin to Sandra Bland have their souls screaming from graves, "don't let this pass, don't ever forget us"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[heaven05]

212. I know who atwater is/was

and nixon too, reagan also, pappy bush, yah, and his dimson.....and the 3rd asking for his time in the sun to fuck up amerikkka further, with the help of his banker and corporate friends. And since darth cheney is still alive he'll be in there 'advising' dimson2. That's why when HRC gets the nod, no great shakes there either, by default she'll have my vote.

[passiveporcupine]

105. "I try to get white men to read black publications."

Thanks for this list.

[GoneFishin]

40. There are always agent provacateurs when there is money and power at stake. The only

mystery is which posters are they?

It's safe to assume that they are the ones that are stirring up the most shit for Bernie.

But if Hillary supporters' only interest is to keep the shit stirred, then a few assholes saying disgusting things might be very useful. Maybe so useful that they might create a few themselves.

These are Rovian tactics at their finest.

[1StrongBlackMan]

224. Well ...

See, that's the thing I can't get my head around. I'm not sure that it is actually Bernie supporters doing that.

I don't see many Bernie supporters condemning this stuff. Do you?

[greatauntoftriplets]

27. +1,000

[Vattel]

38. Sure, Bernie's supporters (including myself) are really evil--that point has been made many times.

But Bernie so black that he rolls his eyes at his rallies when his whole audience claps on the upbeat to "We Are the Champions" by Queen.

[bravenak]

56. Lol!

Thank you.

Berniesoblack his favorite shoes are Stacy Adams. A friend sent me that one.

[heaven05]

90. some of bernie supporters are, but I'm just agreeing with you

and racist too. Is there a problem here? You doing alright? Put that cigarette out and.....#Black Lives Matter, they really do as it seems so many Bernie supporters reject that life and death notion because they are not affected by possible execution by cop because of the color of their skin or most any other reason either..

[LWolf]

53. I hear your anger.

I accept it. I don't return it. It's a natural response to become defensive, and angry in return. I haven't, because I haven't taken it personally. It's not about me, unless you tell me differently.

I hope you know that I've been listening, and trying to understand. I think I'm coming closer to that understanding.

I thought I understood that BLM wanted a strong focus on racial justice, and wanted to hear racial justice addressed in no uncertain terms, separate from economic justice.

I think that Sanders has done that in Louisiana, particularly at the SCLC.

I know you are angry at Sander's supporters. I'm a Sander's supporter. I'll accept that anger. I don't speak for anyone but myself, though, ever.

Will you share your response to his appearance at the SCLC with me? What is he getting right, and what is he not?

[bravenak]

62. I think that Bernie is hitting his stride and his campaign is learning to do better.

I truly believe that he is molding his message and adding our cause to his agenda. I hope that his supporters will support him in that and will assist him. My dream is to have all if the Bernie liberals take up black lives matters as a cause that they care about just as much as smashing the oligarchy. Think it can happen but we need a come to Jesus moment.

[LWolf]

87. I think I agree about

that come to Jesus moment.

I know that I, too, was shocked at the demonstration, and didn't initially understand. I think it worked, though, at least for me. One of the things I've heard repeatedly is that we can't, or shouldn't, be color blind.

I didn't really understand that, because I've felt color blind my whole life. To my family, that meant seeing people as people, not dividing them into groups by their differences. Acknowledging, celebrating, our diversity but not valuing one more than another. That's a great ideal, but as long as racism and discrimination still exists, it's been dangerous not to look at the differences that color makes in people's lives.

As I spent more time, not just listening, but seeking out more and more diverse black voices to listen to, I realized something. Something that will probably cause you to roll your eyes, and that's okay.

What I realized is this: no matter how positive my interactions have been throughout the course of my life with PoC, I'm still on the outside. I have empathized, and acted as supportively as I knew how to, but I haven't faced that same institutionalized racism.

As a woman, I do know what it's like to face the sexism embedded in American culture, and that helps, but it's not the same.

I can't, because I don't have a personal bias against PoC, assume that I "get it." That's kind of like a sympathetic man thinking he "gets" me making a choice about an unplanned pregnancy.

Why I didn't see that before, I don't know.

On taking up black lives matters as a cause...I hope that we can all do that. Sanders talks about people standing together, united. He's right.

And yes, I'll support him adding your cause to his agenda, because it needs to be our cause as human beings.

[DemocraticWing]

138. If that happens, will you consider supporting Bernie again?

I understand why you're skeptical, there are some real interesting cases of supporters right now. It worries me what's in the coalition, but there are some awful parts of the Clinton coalition too, like moderate/conservative Southern Democrats.

Just yesterday I saw a Sanders supporter call Barney Frank a pedophile for daring to not endorse Bernie. There are people here who care so deeply about their candidate that they will say some of the most repulsive crap to defend him. I honestly think these people just live in situations where they don't know any black people, or maybe don't know queer people very well, or something like that. They aren't hateful, but institutionalized problems don't require hate to survive. It's no surprise that Bernie is popular on Reddit, which is a website dominated by straight white men who are generally tone-deaf when talking about issues that face minorities.

I think Bernie understands what needs to be done., and that's why I'm voting for him. But too many supporters just don't get it.

[bravenak]

157. Yes. I will.

[AtomicKitten]

68. I don't tweet. I don't read tweets. This is anecdotal information I'm not involved with.

First of all, the gross categorization of Bernie supporters is, well, gross. We are not all the same. We do not follow the same template. I'm sorry for the offensive tweets you and from what you relate black people en masse found on the internet. This is open season politically now and for all we know those tweets could have come from anyone. We have no way of really being certain of that. And besides since when did a handful of people become reliably emblematic of a huge diverse group?

What I take away from this, and note I don't spend a lot of time here anymore due to work commitments, is it seems to me some black people who support Hillary Clinton are being overly defensive and seem to feel the need to justify that by promoting these ever-changing negative memes about Bernie. If that is the case, please, support whomever you wish. You don't owe anybody an explanation. And then there are other Hillary supporters who are gleefully taking advantage of this situation and gratuitously kicking Bernie in the sack every chance they get.

What I don't like seeing is tearing down a man who has led a life of walking the walk and not just talking the talk. You posted something about somebody asking if he wants a cookie for that. Wow. Isn't historical perspective a useful tool in deciding whom to support? His record although by no means perfect is pretty goddamn consistently good. If his path means nothing to you or others, so be it. But denigrating his courage in these matters is pretty low.

So pile on. Denigrate ME. Nobody likes me here anyway; I'm usually either ignored or sneered at. But as of July 24th I've been here 10 years, I've learned so much, and think I've earned the right to speak up. I'm just speaking my truth as I see it. Peace.

[bravenak]

80. Black folks tweet. We love twitter. Have multiple accounts. It's a thing we love like instagram.

The only problem was that it was not a handful of people doing the damage. We had issues with progressives all over the place being straight up Overseers on the plantation.
There were a buch of them here and on Kos and even that Damn Nicole Sandler (Radio or Not show host, used to sub for Randy Rhodes) went all extra racist talking about she was resigning from progressivism because, reverse racism. Alot of people lost their minds. Member of DU were busy trying to get Elon (the black guy who hosted netroots) fired from his job and accusing him of planning this.

Imani Gandy did write an article about being harassed with a link in it to DU, an op where they go all CT about black folks being paid by Soros or some shit like that. People from DU were harassing them. If you look out in gd you'll see a post up right now complaining about black lives matters. All week in that Bernie group, op after op whining and complaining and hating on black people. It reflects poorly upon his supporters. It's like his fans are anti me.

Now about the wanting a cookie? His fucking fans harassed and harassed that woman for damn near a full fucking week and that was her response. We do not owe white folks for marching with DR.King. We do not have to be grateful and supplicate ourselves to him because of a fucking march before we were born. They bring up the march to shut down critisism. It makes us say'fuck your marching, we are dying in the streets and beng locked in jail today!' What about now? That marching did not save Sandra Bland, black lives matters activist. They lost one of their own so why should they care about marching? That message was not for Bernie, it was for his fans that think that marching back in the day will win the black vote. It won't. The can stop beating us up with it cause it doesn't matter. We want our issue to be brought up to the top. It's life or death and we do not care about the damn oligarchy.

[AtomicKitten]

102. I care about the oligarchy and their boot on the neck of the 99%.

I care that my son has a shit-ton of student loans and nothing to show for it. He works a minimum wage job here in SF because it's all he could find and the banks want a total payment of $6K a month. I care that my daughter and husband have decided not to have kids because they can't foresee ever being able to afford it. No hope and it breaks my heart.

I care deeply about the shit black Americans deal with on a daily basis. No hope and it breaks my heart. Katrina put me in the hospital with a GI bleed. Sandra's death in police custody is outrageous. All the harrassment, disrespect, and death is horrifyingly to me. No, I don't want a cookie. I'm just an ignorant privileged white girl that cares deeply about something I can never really fully understand. I get that.

I'm voting for Bernie because I trust him. He's as constant as the day is long. I know it will take more than that, that it will also take a progressive Congress. But at least I KNOW Bernie is not beholden to the MIC or Wall Street. In my opinion, he's the best shot we've got to right the wrongs some Democrats including Bill Clinton and the GOP have inflicted on this country. Things that have caused a lot of heartache and suffering.

Off to work now. We live in different worlds but if nothing else know I give a shit. Peace.

[shaayecanaan]

146. If it makes you feel any better

eventually its going to reach a tipping point. Something like 50% of jobs are going to disappear within a generation. Not just entry-level service jobs but previously boilerplate occupations - people like accountants and technicians.

Eventually all that rage is going to burst forth, maybe not in time for Bernie, but at some stage it will.

[Cha]

186. I thought we were through with this for now.. but they keep popping up..

and then we find out more about what all went down across the cybersphere ..

"There were a buch of them here and on Kos and even that Damn Nicole Sandler (Radio or Not show host, used to sub for Randy Rhodes) went all extra racist talking about she was resigning from progressivism because, reverse racism. Alot of people lost their minds. Member of DU were busy trying to get Elon (the black guy who hosted netroots) fired from his job and accusing him of planning this.

They're way too paranoid.

They forgot the lessons of Dr King when he and his supporters were fighting for Voting Rights in Selma, Alabama..

".: We're not asking - we're demanding! Give us the vote! ... Martin Luther King Jr.: That means protest! That means march! That means disturb the peace! That means jail."

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0030683/quotes

This is dialogue from the movie .. but you can see by their actions.. that's how they felt about it.

I just finally saw Selma last night.. all the way through. Bless those who Marched from Selma to Montgomery, Alabama.

Joshua Jackson ?@JoshuaKJackson
Dear White Progressives,

Black people don't HAVE to support Bernie or anyone. You don't own us & we don't owe you ANYTHING

#BernieSoBlack
6:10 AM - 19 Jul 2015 589 589 Retweets
865 865 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/07/22/chat-away-631/

The very idea.. they think they are "owed" something. It's about #BlackLivesMatter.. not tit for tat.

Like your sig line.. "Don't be a Stander. Try empathy. (I'm back to not having a candidate - Biden? What's up with Chafee? ) Please stop trying to educate all us black people about Dr.King and who marched with him. It's irritating."

[Beartracks]

98. All I can say is, Bernie's the guy running, not his supporters.

If you still agree with Bernie's positions, philosophy, policy ideas, and vision, then he's still your guy.

=====================

[heaven05]

107. and I say thank god.

I might not give him my vote just because of the blatant racism and bias in SOME of his supporters. The campaign supporters seem to be legion who really don't like POC speaking up for themselves without asking overseer missy and overseer massa if they could speak to the man in the big house. The New Jim Crow amerikkka is full of them not wanting POC to shout from the rooftops, #Black Lives Matter and we don't give damn what you get offended by.....

[V0ltairesGh0st]

126. It seems you are so full of your own hate

you can't see who is, or isn't fighting for the same things you are. It rends my soul to all this shit the racist white cops are doing to black people across this country and i feel SICK, and powerless because of it. and yeah IM WHITE... but you don't let your ANGER control you more than anything, and attack the people who agree with you. I've been terrorized by cops myself as a white person. I've had their guns pointed at my head for being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I am not your enemy, in fact I'd like to be your friend because I feel if we don't tackle this TOGETHER then there really is no hope of resolving any of it. I know why you feel the way you feel... even if you hate me for saying so.

[sheshe2]

191. Please...

please do not tell heaven what they should feel. Please don't.

It seems you are so full of your own hate
you can't see who is, or isn't fighting for the same things you are.

I don't see how heaven feels hate, it is not. They are angry and frustrated and tired and beaten and fighting for their very lives and those of their children and their children's children.

Actually they do see it and have acknowledged it. Do not tell them what they should or should not think.

This, this is good.

I feel if we don't tackle this TOGETHER then there really is no hope of resolving any of it.

Heaven has some wonderful things to say, listen to them. I have.

Hell, all of AA has so much passion and insight, listen to their voices. Listen.....I have learned so much from them.

[heaven05]

209. you said it

I'll move on....

[pa28]

116. Bernie's evil fans drove you off the plantation?

That sounds serious.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

125. Winning hearts and minds one at a time, by patronizing then!

eom

[pa28]

130. Some hearts and minds can't be won with sincerity. Hyperbole like that should be mocked.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

131. One man's hyperbole is another man's truth./nt

[pa28]

132. If it's the truth I hope he's got a place to stay tonight.

Far, far away from all those evil Bernie supporters.

[bravenak]

155. It is. I'm following the drinking gourd as we speak.

[pa28]

158. Be safe Bravenak. I've posted a few people you might want to watch out for.

Not sure where you are but these people were at the rally in New Orleans this evening.



A few more here.



They might appear to be happy, well-adjusted people who often volunteer their spare time working for the advancement of civil rights but they are actually evil. Hope you find a warm place tonight.

[bravenak]

159. I never called those peope evil. Just the evil fans.

Only evil fans are evil fans and they know who they are. I wish they would get checked by some of the good fans so they would feel properly chastised and stop bullying black twitter. It's like with cops. Not all cops are bad, but when you're black and cops harass your community constantly, you do not trust cops. The bad fans make the whole group look rotten. And the way so many decided to go out and harass black people on the internet.... It makes the group look bad.

[pa28]

162. I believe you. Twitter can be like a trip through the sewer in a glass bottomed boat.

DU is a separate space though and we have long time posters here who have spent decades as Democratic loyalists and activists working for civil rights.

You have to try to put yourself in somebody else's shoes and if I were black I'd be off the rails pissed off. I'm not black and I'm still off the rails pissed off. It kind of shakes you when people suggest you don't care.

[BainsBane]

189. Bernie went to SCLC today and spoke

The OP must know that. Why does he resurrect this shit all over again? Are they pissed off Bernie is trying to reach out for black votes? Do they want to do more damage? What sense does this even make to start this shit up again? How do they think that helps him?

The more I see of this, the more I think they don't want AA votes and instead want to attract the kind of voters who resent Black Lives Matter.

I'm not a Sanders supporter, but I don't like to see this shit go on anywhere. I don't get any satisfaction from the fact they are insulting black voters. In fact, it infuriates me. It is bad for the country. How do they not see any of that?

[Cha]

195. It infuritates me, too. there is no rhyme or reason.

[delrem]

21. So why did you just give them another target? Hmmm?

Haven't you figured it out yet? What'll it take?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

24. I wonder who egged on Nat Turner...

From my side of my lilly-white filter, it all sounds rather contrived. Like a couple of BLM activists were egged on and caught up in their passion for their movement?

I wonder who egged on Nat Turner, Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, and Muhammad Ali

[hootinholler]

39. Poor choice of words

Goaded would have been better.

But no comment about the question that follows. What does it mean if they weren't goaded?

[okasha]

154. No, it wouldn't.

You're denying agency to #BLM again, and as long as you're doing that, word choice doesn't matter.

WTF do you think it means? It means the African American community is mad as hell and not going to take white racism anymore. What about that don't you understand?

[okasha]

152. Probably the same people who egged on

Wilma Mankiller, Frank Fools Crow, Russ Means, Dennis Banks, Charlotte Black Elk, Leonard Crow Dog. . . ..

[hifiguy]

25. It's rat-fucking in the best KKKarl Rove tradition

and it started on DU the day he announced. It has a stench that is positively Nixonian.

[kwassa]

70. This post is satire, right?

[hifiguy]

73. Not at all.

And it literally started right here on DU the day Sanders announced his candidacy.

[kwassa]

77. Well, I think it's funny.

Everything is a conspiracy.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

206. You're conflating different things.

There certainly are Hillary supporters on DU who have taken the fact that Bernie did not have a non-white base to start and pretended that meant he didn't 'care' about black people. But the underlying reality of the different viewpoints and his lack of enough advice and interaction with black people led to the rhetorical fumbles at NN to a real protest. And that in turn, led to paranoid supporters proclaiming that the protest itself was merely some sort of 'plot' or that the protesters were 'duped' into 'attacking Bernie', which was self-centered nonsense. And at that point, supporters went off the rails attacking black people across social media in a way that has done far more damage to his campaign than anything he has done himself, or probably ever will. If there's more 'ratfucking' going on, it's taking place by Hillary or RW supporters egging on the Bernie supporters, telling them the paranoia is something real. Then sitting back and laughing their asses off because Bernie supporters are driving a wedge between him and the black community.

[1StrongBlackMan]

220. A couple of corrections for the sake of accuracy ...

There certainly are Hillary supporters on DU who have taken the fact that Bernie did not have a non-white base to start and pretended that meant he didn't 'care' about black people.

It wasn't HRC-supporters who noted that Bernie did not have a non-white base ... well, the PoC folks on DU. The vast majority of PoC on DU are undecided ... regardless of what Bernie supporters think. Secondly, this "Bernie doesn't care about Black people" narrative is NOT coming from HRC supporters ... again, well not the PoC folks on DU. I think if you do some digging, you will find that the narrative, along with it's twin narrative - "Bernie is a racist" - is what Bernie supporters are saying that HRC supporters (PoC) are "implying."

[stevenleser]

223. Exactly. Absolutely no one on DU has said that Bernie is a racist. I have never seen that.

"Not connecting with people of color" and "Not doing enough to connect with people of color" is not in the same universe as "Racist".

I don't know why people refuse to get that.

It's like they want to mis-characterize what is happening and what POC are saying.

Best advice for Bernie supporters is what Eric Bloodaxe has been saying. Get out of your candidate's way and let him do the talking.

[1StrongBlackMan]

226. Well ...

It's like they want to mis-characterize what is happening and what POC are saying.

I suspect that that IS what they want to do ... The absurd is easily, and rightfully, dismissed.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

233. That's why I said Hillary supporters and not PoC. I don't simply interchange the two.

The diaries I first saw throwing such themes up were from people I assumed were white.

[1StrongBlackMan]

235. Sorry ...

To many HRC supporter and PoC are inter-changeable.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

236. I've noticed, heh. nt

[udbcrzy2]

30. Black Lives Matter on Wikipedia

Black Lives Matter is an American grassroots movement that speaks out and organizes against police brutality against African-Americans in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lives_Matter

What I don't understand is why they have people like Jordon Davis and Renisha McBride on this list on their wiki that did not die by police or like-police? Wouldn't that be a different thing than what the movement is about?

I live in the St. Louis area and I see signs in yards that say, "We Must Stop Killing Each Other" (google it). We have more killings that have nothing to do with the police of all races. We have to deal with youth violence and gang violence too, plus heroin which kills many people.

Police reform must happen and we need to stop killing each other.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Maybe because they died for the sin of having a bit more melanin than some

What I don't understand is why they have people like Jordon Davis and Renisha McBride on this list on their wiki that did not die by police or like-police? Wouldn't that be a different thing than what the movement is about?

Maybe because they died for the sin of having a bit more melanin than some.

[udbcrzy2]

41. BLM says it's a movement

BLM says it's a movement about police brutality though, see that's why I didn't understand why the other two victims were listed.

It makes it difficult to understand their movement when they keep changing it. Makes it confusing as all hell.

[bravenak]

85. It's also about black lives. Hence the name.

[udbcrzy2]

92. I agree n/t

[JustinL]

169. from the beginning, the movement has been about vigilante killings as well as police killings

From the "About Us" page of blacklivesmatter.com:

Every 28 hours a black man, woman, or child is murdered by police or vigilante law enforcement.

#BlackLivesMatter was created in 2012 after Trayvon Martin’s murderer, George Zimmerman, was acquitted for his crime, and dead 17-year old Trayvon was post-humously placed on trial for his own murder. Rooted in the experiences of Black people in this country who actively resist our de-humanization, #BlackLivesMatter is a call to action and a response to the virulent anti-Black racism that permeates our society.Black Lives Matter is a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes.

(Emphasis added.)

Trayvon Martin, Jordan Davis, and Renisha McBride were all killed by vigilantes. I don't understand what's confusing about this.

[udbcrzy2]

173. That's not what the wiki description says and that is what's confusing

Maybe you didn't see my post. The wiki description says that their movement is about blacks killed by police and then towards the bottom they give out the names, but two of the names Jordan Davis and Renisha McBride were not killed by police. See, that is the part that is confusing. Because they were not killed by police.

I never went to BLM site, so I wouldn't have seen that and wasn't talking about that anyway...

[silvershadow]

33. I suspect it is a political operation and cooperation.

The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

[the_sly_pig]

35. I don't care.

Right now its either going to be Bernie or Hillary. I will vote for either one. If that changes, I will vote for the democratic nominee.

[MerryBlooms]

37. You and I are not facing genocide by cop... we need more protests...

we need ALL people running for political office and ALL IN POLITICAL OFFICE INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT, to address the institutional racism in this goddamn country AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. It's been all talk. DO SOMETHING. Start holding these fucking murderous cops accountable. PROSECUTE. No more inside sham investigations. EVERY in custody death gets an automatic federal investigation.

For god's sake, do something.

[hootinholler]

42. I'm totally on board with that! n/t

[MerryBlooms]

45. I knew you would be, and I think 99% of DU is also on board.

[V0ltairesGh0st]

46. Bernie has done his job for 50 years

where civil rights are concerned... It is time that some people realize that and give him credit for it, and see him as an ally and end their irrational and unfounded opposition to his campaign based on just this ONE issue. It's a huge issue no doubt, it's got to be resolved NOW and not later, but not at the expense of falsely accusing it's own greatest advocate of not having done anything about it.

The sanders campaign can not afford to become about just one groups interests. As Bernie told that douche bag Chuck Todd the problems of racism and , economic inequality are PARALLEL problems, as Dr. King himself said. Bernie has handled this all with grace and diplomacy and he remains flawless in it all.


We have millions of uninsured in this country, we have state government attacking reproductive rights making them nearly impossible, we have women not being paid as much as men for the same job, We have a supreme court stacked in favor corporate rights and not the rights of individuals. I will not stand by and be silent while some of you try to make this whole campaign a ONE DEMENSIONAL argument solely for your own particular hot point issues.

[winter is coming]

55. I think it's a mistake to see that as "one group's interests", just as it's a mistake

to think Bernie has been indifferent to those interests. If you look back over his career, Bernie's always been about looking out for the interests of people who don't have power. Addressing the concerns of PoC is one facet of something he's always been invested in.

[heaven05]

65. SOS

still doesn't stop the truth from being the truth about a so-called "champion" of all people. Best equipped, huh? We'll see when and if he get's elected.

[Triana]

66. "the BLM movement is rejecting the candidate that is best equipped to advance their cause"

My take too.

But then I also believe some particular operatives may be orchestrating some of this in the background. The tactic of turning a candidates strongest points into his/her weakest one(s) isn't uniquely Republican, unfortunately. "Swiftboating" is now common political practice for all but Bernie. I think.

One of the issues I had w/ Hillary in 2008 was that she campaigned like a Republican. Disingenuous.

Don't get me wrong, if she's the nom, she'll get my vote -- but with some serious reservations.

[heaven05]

74. They didn't reject

they demanded a candidate check himself and see if maybe there is something else that could be done to "best equip him to advance a cause like #Black Lives Matter. When they are getting the life choked out of them in a lonely cold jail cell surrounded by white terrorists/racists with a badge or their blood is soaking the ground after being executed summarily in the street or stairwell black people shouting at a candidate is the least they should expect. All this BS about rejecting a candidate???? BS! The candidates have been rejecting the fact that #Black Lives Matter for generations. Why should anyone believe some champion is going to appear and really be for ALL the people.

[Bobbie Jo]

72. Whooooooosh

I'll post this here too...


Again, it's not so much Sanders
as it is his supporters.

Once again, take a look at his supporters and their reaction to BLM:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=27165

Compared to the discussion in the AA group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118718521

Also, accounts from those who were there:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/22/1404615/-A-black-woman-s-negative-encounter-with-a-Sanders-supporter-after-NN15-BlackLivesMatter-protest

Bottom line, their reaction to BLM is getting some well-deserved push back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=475770


Just. Stop. If you don't know much about this "BLM dustup." grab a damn mirror

[Adrahil]

95. This thread is an epic example...

of unforced self-immolation.

[freshwest]

160. OMG, Bobbie Jo, I had not seen this:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/22/1404615/-A-black-woman-s-negative-encounter-with-a-Sanders-supporter-after-NN15-BlackLivesMatter-protest

The white guy putting his hands on the shoulders of the girl at the swimming pool in north Texas was said to be part of the racist response. Why is this guy getting in her personal space?

When we meet in my district with fellow Democrats, no one would dare to do such a thing. To anyone, even a disruptor, as we have LaRourchies come in from time to time to raise hell.

[Bobbie Jo]

164. Some of the things I've read

(and continue to read, sadly) on this absolutely blow my mind.

I tried to engage with many people, until one guy cornered me at the Netroots Nation after-party, put his hands on my shoulders, and told me that the protestors had no class and that Bernie Sanders deserves our respect for 50 years of fighting for civil rights. I stopped engaging at that point. I no longer felt safe in a progressive space.

[Cha]

197. Mahalo, Bobbi Jo! Putting that right in my journal.

Bobbie Jo (11,261 posts)

72. Whooooooosh

Again, it's not so much Sanders
as it is his supporters.

Once again, take a look at his supporters and their reaction to BLM:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=27165

Compared to the discussion in the AA group:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118718521

Also, accounts from those who were there:

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/22/1404615/-A-black-woman-s-negative-encounter-with-a-Sanders-supporter-after-NN15-BlackLivesMatter-protest

Bottom line, their reaction to BLM is getting some well-deserved push back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=475770


Just. Stop. If you don't know much about this "BLM dustup." grab a damn mirror

[PBass]

81. Hoo boy, you are indeed confused.

Quote: "the current brouhaha smells like a political operation."

^^^ Totally clueless, and an insult to the Black Lives Matter campaign. Bravo!

Bernie Sanders is going to have to deal with curve balls* during this election. If he can't think on his feet (so to speak) during the campaign, he is probably going to have problems with curve balls as president. And that's not good. Did you expect the red carpet treatment? Because you should be prepared for a fight on the issues you incorrectly ASSUMED Bernie has already locked down.

*(sports analogy, sorry)

The Clintons have many years of good will (deserved or not, that's a different discussion) that they built up with the national black community (remember when Bill Clinton was called "America's first black president"?) Bernie Sanders is a newcomer on the national scene, and has his work cut out for him, in wooing black voters away from Hillary Clinton. If folks on DU can't recognize this basic fact of demographics, they are in for a rude awakening. But it seems some folks are struggling with the facts. Hence, we see some idiotic suggestions that BLM is a political ploy designed to go after Bernie Sanders.

BTW, I feel confident that Hillary will also have to contend with a challenge from the BLM movement. Nobody will get a pass.

[RufusTFirefly]

88. Someone had a race problem and accused someone else who didn't of having one

It's a classic from the political bag of tricks

Someone appealed to hard working Americans, hard working white Americans in order to drive a wedge between the future President and the white electorate.

Surrogates of this same someone referred to the future President's "shucking and jiving," the undertones of which were obvious to those who were paying attention.

[PBass]

115. Hillary Clinton does not have a "race problem" ---

according to the polling she is absolutely crushing Bernie Sanders when it comes to support from the black community. Wishful thinking does not change that.

Bernie Sanders cannot possibly win without massive support from black voters. Please get your head around that, ASAP. Bernie supporters should look at these BLM events as a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY (especially since it's happening so many months ahead of the primary!!!) to CHANGE THE NARRATIVE.

Instead, some of you are entertaining conspiracy theories. And that's stupid.

[RufusTFirefly]

134. She definitely has in the past. Perhaps she's "evolved."

Clinton Touts White Support

"I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on,” she said in the interview, citing an article by The Associated Press.

It “found how Senator Obama’s support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.”

“There’s a pattern emerging here,” she said.

Hillary Supporter Cuomo: Obama Tried To "Shuck And Jive" With Media

The issue came up again, but this time when Sarah Palin, that icon of civil rights, used the term...

Was It Racist for Palin to Accuse Obama of 'Shuck and Jive'?

[PBass]

136. Weak sauce. Just talking about race (in this case, demographic support)

is not racist. There's nothing racist in the quote you pulled, IMO. I'm not seeing it. Explain?

The Cuomo quote (guilt by association) is worthless, and not worth addressing.

LOOK AT THE POLLING. Hillary is beating Bernie with black voters. It's not even close.

[RufusTFirefly]

141. She was speaking to a predominantly white audience in West Virginia.

She knew exactly what she was doing. (Was it as bad as Ronald Reagan kicking off his campaign in Philadelphia, MS? No. But it was still pretty bad.)

Much of her support at this point can still be attributed largely to name recognition.

Also, it's interesting how she can be "co-president" when she wants to be and independent of her husband's destructive policies when she doesn't.

See Frances Fox Pivens' "Why Welfare Reform is Racist" (PDF)

[JustinL]

170. it sure sounds like blacks are not included in the class of "hard-working Americans"

That quote was the subject of extensive discussion and controversy during the 2008 campaign.

[PBass]

94. 40 recommends (and counting) means 40 delusional Bernie supporters

Bernie is a rookie on the national stage. It may be the twilight of his political career, but on the national stage he is brand-new. Black people already have a candidate that they like (Hillary Clinton) and that has been the case since 2008. Now we have a virtual unknown candidate (for all practical purposes) popping up and touting his previous record, which is expected by some to be taken on faith. It doesn't work like that - Bernie is going to have to talk about the issues he cares about (and not in the past tense, and not by saying "trust me, my economic policies will fix all this inequality and injustice!&quot

BERNIE IS RELATIVELY UNKNOWN ON THE NATIONAL STAGE. Check his name recognition stats - they are LOW. He does not get a pass, simply on his record. He needs to introduce himself to the national voters, and this will be an constant, ongoing process all the way up to election day.

[Cha]

199. Now up to 84.. they don't get it.. that's okay. Sounds like Bernie is getting it and that's what's

Important.

[snort]

110. BLM underestimated the power of their action, maybe.

If they want the best available candidate then I think they have done themselves a disservice. Perhaps they didn't bother to research their target.

MLK could have been on that stage and the negative connotations for some would be just as powerful and for the opposition invaluable.

[RandySF]

120. How about this?

No one is under any obligation to support anyone. And it's your jobs to make the case why your candidate deserves their vote. If they don't choose so, respect that choice and say "thank you for your time".

[840high]

135. I'm tired. I proudly admit I support

Bernie. He's a good person who will look out for all.

[joanbarnes]

143. Middle-aged white woman agrees.

[Babel_17]

163. Senator Sanders positions on the issues compel HRC supporters to explain

Senator Sanders positions on the issues compel HRC supporters to explain why she isn't matching his popular positions. One way to avoid having to do that is to go on the offensive against Sanders.

People see their candidate getting attacked and tend to take that personal. But it is a traditional method of dominating the conversation in politics. That Sanders doesn't enable those methods for his own gain can seem like a liability at times but in the long run this strategy will reward his campaign several times over its cost to it here in these early days.

It's pretty Zen, and as the campaign season goes on, month after month after month, Sanders will still be there, untarnished and looking good to the press and the public. Those looking for the speck in his eye but blind to the beam in theirs will be seen in bright contrast for their own true selves. That's how this plays out if you can persevere, and are in the right.

Sanders has the platform that the primary voters, and the country as a whole, want. Staying on message, avoiding engagement in mean spirited and fruitless bickering; the Sanders campaign has proven that it has mapped out the right path to victory, and it's making those opposed to the Sanders campaign uneasy to the point of distraction.

TMWDR: This is an example of what it's like when your candidate is winning.

[Zorra]

177. The important thing is, the truth came out,

and now Clinton is tanking in the polls because of it.

You try to game the people and get busted at it. you go nowhere but down.

Her supporters were her undoing, and their outrage is hilarious.

Third Way is toast, and I welcome their hatred.

[BainsBane]

185. Reality means nothing to you, does it?

Tanking in the polls? She's 40 points up over Sanders. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html
Clinton supporters aren't running all over the internet insisting that Black Lives Matters is a RW plot, that the only thing that counts is one politicians career. Clinton's supporters aren't insulting black Sanders supporters as "race naggers," "thugs," or saying "she so booshie" and prompting dozens of supporters are a time to drop their support for their candidate.
That is entirely the doing of shit like this and the fact that some white "progressives" seem determined to ruin their candidates chances with the non-white majority.

BLM doesn't support Clinton. They support Black Lives, but some think those lives so inconsequential that they can't believe they have any purpose but to discredit Sanders. They've been organizing and protesting for an entire year, but you all decided their protest at Netroots was about Sanders because you simply can't fathom that anything else could possibly matter. How could they really care about the epidemic of police killings of black people? Why would they want to demand all candidates address that? No, it's all pretext to embarrass Sanders. That very notion demonstrates how little importance some place on those lives.

You keep on insulting black voters. Insist real leftist activists are a corporate plot, all while you work to suppress a people's movement in order to promote a member of the political elite. The conservative, reactionary nature of such thinking is deep and is as far removed from leftism as can possibly be.
Bernie isn't a racist, but some of his supporters have serious issues with people of color, and they have already done tremendous damage to his campaign. It's not possible to treat the single most reliable Democratic voting block with such disdain and expect to get their votes.

Bernie has moved on and is trying to do better in speaking to black voters. He appeared at the SCLC today for that very purpose. But some of you can't stand that. That is evidently unacceptable to some, who need to resurrect their insults of Black Lives Matter in order to continue the damage started last weekend and to ensure that Sanders can't move on.

Real progressives are saying no to racism. They are saying no to those who denigrate people's movements in favor of their own reactionary, white-centric view of politics.
#earnthisdamnvoteorlose
#redefineprogressive

This is the 21st century, not 1954. That shit doesn't fly anymore. If you all don't wise up, you're in for a very rude awakening.

[shenmue]

193. What color is the sky, in your world?

[1StrongBlackMan]

221. Bernt Rose! ...

[PFunk]

179. I feel the big loser in all of this is ... the democratic party itself

Note: I'm both black and a Bernie supporter.

And what when down highlighted a major fault in the democratic party. Namely that most blacks, especially younger blacks felt the party, namely whites progressives/liberals has taken them for granted. And the response by many to BLM's actions seemed to have confirmed this by many. Which will result in many blacks will just sit out the next election because of it.

The good point about his that after some early missteps Bernie seems go have gotten the message and is responding effectively. I just wish many (primary white) dems here will quit ripping on BLM will do the same.

[Maedhros]

227. I understand this phenomenon completely.

The Democratic Party pretty much does this to Liberals/Progressives in general: the Party demands and coerces our votes during election season, but once the candidates are in office our concerns get purposely ignored. "Give us subpoena power!" during the election becomes "Impeachment is off the table!" immediately after.

It has to be worse for black Americans. I applaud any effort to stand up to the Party and state unequivocally "Put up or shut up." My beef with the current situation is not with BLM, but with those who have co-opted their action for their own purposes.

[bvar22]

240. The Democratic Party doesn't just ignore Black People after the election.

They also ignore the Working Class, The Poor, the native Americans, Organized LABOR
and a host of others that they court on for votes during elections.
The Democratic Party is counting on undeserved "Brand Loyalty", even though they haven't earned it since the LBJ administration.

[sabrina 1]

182. Hillary's huge gaffe was NOT treated the same way by the SAME PEOPLE. So when

you see all this 'concern' about something that was far less offensive than Hillary's remark which showed she wasn't even aware of the Movement, you KNOW it is being USED for political purposes.

And that is despicable. Bernie won't play with serious issues like that.

Pretty everyone by now knows it is not real 'concern' especially when you see that those who are suddenly SO concerned, showed no interest in the Ferguson protests, and were just FINE with Hillary's far worse insult to the AA community.

People should ignore them, when it goes on week after week, while they have no problem with how upset AAs by Hillary's remark, you know it is not sincere.

Meantime Bernie is doing fine and picking up support every day from Minorities as they get to know him.

Let them play these negative games, the public is sick to death of it all and Bernie won't play, nor should we.

I remember how disgusted I was with Republicans during the Clinton Impeachment garbage. Even Repubs in the end found themselves nauseated by it. People don't like this kind of behavior even if they don't like someone. Clinton benefited from it, so will Bernie.

[Smarmie Doofus]

198. Exactamente. n/t

[GoneFishin]

215. +1

[Maedhros]

228. As always, you speak wisdom. [n/t]

[NanceGreggs]

200. "I think it could mean that the BLM movement is rejecting the candidate ...

... that is best equipped to advance their cause ..."

How incredibly decent of you to try to educate people as to who "is best equipped to advance their cause," because apparently you don't believe they are capable of determining such things for themselves.

And, yes, of course - it's all a "political operation", complete with synchronized watches and coordinated posts on DU - because, as we all know: as goes DU, so goes the nation.

Just when you think the last shark has been jumped, yet another one is dragged onto the beach and ... well, I'm sure you know the rest.

[NCTraveler]

208. Try listening to Sanders and others.

They not only understand that which you do not, they are discussing it in terms that will help you to understand.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

216. The suggestion that Black Lives Matter are pawns...

The suggestion that Black Lives Matter are pawns reminds of the suggestion of many whites in the Jim Crow south that African Americans were happy with their lot in life and would have remained so without the influence of outside Northern agitators.

[1StrongBlackMan]

222. You see that, too? +1. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

241. That was the old chestnut, that Martin was in cahoots with the communists.

Who would have know they infiltrated the Baptist church?

[Maedhros]

229. I don't think they're pawns, but that their message has been co-opted

by others with a different agenda.

[V0ltairesGh0st]

230. Im glad i found this post

I wouldn't have been able to put so many stubborn, and single minded people on ignore without it.

[kacekwl]

238. Your rambling makes sense to me,

I find myself doing it. Hard not to with all th B.S. flying around out there.

[Blue_In_AK]

243. I've generally stayed out of these discussions

because it seems like nothing we "lily-white" people say is correct. We are told that we can't possibly understand with our white privilege, and we're told that decades of activism don't mean much, and maybe that's right, I don't know, but it does discourage people from this side of the racial divide from getting involved.

I doubt that there's a single legitimate (i.e., non-troll) person on this website who doesn't believe that black lives matter, but when our opinions on the issue are angrily shouted down, it makes me at least want to back out slowly.

[yardwork]

246. I'm sure that Bernie Sanders supports fully the rights of people of color.

I can't imagine that he wouldn't.

These accusations are similar to the ones that criticize Hillary for not being a strong enough advocate for gay rights.

Both of them are strong advocates for everybody's civil rights, and any suggestion otherwise sounds foolish, particularly in the context of the Republican KKKlown KKKar.