Clinton Is Not A Stronger Candidate Than Bernie Sanders - HuffPo

[WillyT]

Clinton Is Not a Stronger Candidate Than Bernie Sanders
Liam Miller - HuffPo
Posted: 07/28/2015 5:09 pm EDT Updated: 1 hour ago

<snip>

It's just so obvious.

A recent CNN poll shows Sanders can beat the possible Republican nominees; and mind you, that's with Sanders not having full name-recognition yet (as in, 41 percent of respondents said they didn't know who he was).

But you can put it really simply.

* The Democratic base is about as excited about Clinton as the Republican base was about Romney (there, I said it); and Democrats are already much, much less inspired about the election than Republicans;

* Clinton is so reviled by the Right (almost entirely unfairly, but still), that they will come out in droves to oppose her. It's not hard to see that that plays a role in Republicans being so much more excited about the election; they, like so many, are assuming Clinton will be the nominee, and they can't wait to vote against her.

* Sanders speaks to, inspires and motivates people all over the political map -- not just the "far Left" as the simple-minded, when-you're-a-hammer-everything-looks-like-a-sickle-wielding-socialist media would have us believe.

* Sanders is inspiring people to register to vote who have not registered before, and engaging millennials (only 20 percent of whom voted in 2014) in huge numbers.

Beltway insiders do not know how to talk about Sanders; all of the rules they use to frame their conversations don't apply. It really shows just how lazy and formulaic political coverage has become -- how out of touch with real people. I'm reminded of Thomas Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions. According to Kuhn, scientists will brush off data that call into question accepted theories (and they do that because they have a lot invested in those theories -- published work, research grants, tenure).

Eventually, though, enough information comes in that challenges the established way of looking at things that a crisis point is reached; the inadequacies of the previous way of understanding become impossible to ignore any longer. Then a scientific revolution takes place and a new way of understanding is embraced -- a new paradigm. (The classic example is the topic of Kuhn's book The Copernican Revolution, which chronicles the shift away from believing that the Earth was the center of the universe... Hmmm.)

You can see that crisis of understanding taking place in American politics, and it applies to those who cover it just as much as it applies to the elected officials they cover. They all seem to be saying, "how can this guy be doing so well? Everything we know about politics tells us he can't."

Maybe they should start paying attention to...

<snip>

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/liam-miller/sanders_b_7883450.html

[beam me up scottie]

1. Another right wing hit piece on Hillary?

MAKE IT STOP!



Big Rec™ was here.

[WillyT]

2. LOL !!!

[Ed Suspicious]

46. Rec Syndicate.

[beam me up scottie]

47. Organized Recrime is rampant on DU.

[pocoloco]

74. I don't think Linda is gonna vote for her!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3176621/Lies-cover-ups-corruption-Linda-Tripp-West-Wing-assistant-outed-Monica-Lewinsky-s-sexual-liaison-Bill-Clinton-talks-time-Hillary-tells-never-President.html

[Divernan]

77. Ex-Plo-Sive! And will be laid out by GOP in detail if HRC wins the primary.

Another source which the GOP will draw on in an anti-Clinton campaign is Kathleen Willey's website, http://www.ascandaladay.com/about-us.html and the book Willey wrote: "Target: Caught in the Crosshairs of Bill and Hillary Clinton". Are all the charges true? True or not, they will be part and parcel of the daily news throughout the general election campaign. The GOP is salivating at the prospect of campaigning against and voting against HRC. HRC will have negative coat tails - with her at the top of the ticket, those good Dems running for lesser offices will suffer from a high GOP turnout.

[AtomicKitten]

113. Wow! That's a blast from the past.

[lewebley3]

84. This is the GOP: The Dem's and the American people want Hillary

[azmom]

3. K&R

[restorefreedom]

4. farmer ted said it best

[Enthusiast]

5. Kicked and recommended!

How can anyone "refutiate" this?

[appalachiablue]

18. You can't misunderestimate it either. It's the food you have to put on your family.

K & R! I'll drink to that. Democracy is overrated anyway.

[RufusTFirefly]

6. Whoops! Somebody's off message!

This isn't going to sit well ...



Meanwhile at the Blankfein residence, things are starting to get a little tense...

[passiveporcupine]

27. Oh, so that's what he meant

with "putting food on your family".

[moobu2]

7. But Huffingtonpost is biased against Hillary Clinton

always has been always will be. Look at how they promoted Elizabeth Warren and she wasnt even running.

Bernie Sanders is not going to win the nomination. People dont really understand that he's a certifiable socialist and once lived on a commune. lol He'll be lucky to get any sates in the general once everybody knows who and what he is.

[RufusTFirefly]

10. Of course it is. What other possible explanation could there be?

Don't worry. President-elect Clinton's natural affinity with regular folk, her authentic, off-the-cuff speaking style, and her impeccable populist credentials will eventually come through for her. I'm sure of it!

[Plucketeer]

48. Might I inquire

What degree of mortal danger is prevalent if I opt to hold my breath?

[RufusTFirefly]

49. Sorry. I'm not a doctor. But I might be able to give you a tip on the third race at Belmont

[Plucketeer]

53. Aha!

That sounds like as good ah advice an any! I'll stick my thumbs in both ears, so I can't exhale!

[arlington.mass]

11. and yet

And yet there are people like me who have become jaded about politics, and are now re-entering the arena for the first time in many years

I don't care if Bernie is a "socialist"

I care that he is an outsider who is being supported by his people, not big money PAC's

I care that he has stood for the same things for decades

I care that he supports working class people

I care that he supports quality health care for all

I care that he has always fought for equality for all

I haven't been FOR anyone in a long time, but I'm 100% with Bernie and I'm going to work to support him

[RufusTFirefly]

13. Yes! Wouldn't it be great to be able to put away the clothespins for the next election? n/t

[WillyT]

16. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - And Welcome To DU !!!

[zeemike]

38. Yep and welcome to DU.

And I suspect there are a lot more out there that feel like you do...and if they vote it will be a game changer.

[Nite Owl]

43. It's not just liberals who are supporting

Bernie. His appeal is across all party lines. People know right off that socialist or not he is real and not just making campaign promises.
He's for us pure and simple.

Nice post arlington.mass! Welcome

[delrem]

54. liberal/conservative; left/right/center; meaningless. People support Bernie's policies.

Once sound progressive policies are enacted, they are supported across the board.
It becomes clear that the only ones who want to destroy those policies and programs are the same ones who stand to make a profit out of increasing human misery.

[Yallow]

60. Well Said

"make a profit out of increasing human misery" Isn't that what it is all about?

[RiverNoord]

110. It's not just policies, either.

It the weird reality that he seems to be a politician who actually seems to stand by what he says. This runs counter to the political gamesmanship that the American people have grown tediously used to for years and years.

[chknltl]

50. Welcome to DU and let me give you a little perspective

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6592890

This should help make things crystal clear about your new forum chums my fine fellow DUer!
Welcome home arlington.mass

[secondwind]

72. AGREED! welcome to DU!

[CrispyQ]

94. The dems always talk about going after the undecided voter

when their focus should be on the non-voters! It's a much bigger segment of the population & I believe with the right message, you can actually interest them, vs the undecideds, who I think are more about getting media attention. I mean really, Obama vs Romney & someone is undecided? Not buying it.

Glad you have you engaged again!

[rhett o rick]

106. I am active in my local Democratic Party and when we last met for our Drinking Liberally

meeting, I was surprised to find two people that I thought were strong Clinton supporters, were going to support Sanders in the primary. They both told me that they like Clinton but thought Sanders was bringing the Party back to the people.

[beam me up scottie]

14. "People dont really understand that he's a certifiable socialist and once lived on a commune"

You had me going moobu2, for a minute there I thought you were serious.

[MoveIt]

21. was it the red baiting that gave it away?

[beam me up scottie]

24. They should write for the Onion.

I'm still lmao over here...picturing Bernie barefoot and nekkid except for a pair of overalls...tending to his pot plants...

[neverforget]

32. Does Bernie have a Hammer and Sickle tattooed on his ass?

[beam me up scottie]

35. LOLOLOL!

Stop it, I'm in tears...bwahahahaha!

[WillyT]

64. ROFLMAO !!!

[DFW]

95. Um, hey people, you DO realize that is from 1969, right?

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[skepticscott]

105. Didn't you know?

"People who live in communes are communISTS"

Archie Bunker

[beam me up scottie]

115. I can only imagine what Archie Bunker would have to say about a Jewish socialist like Bernie.

[passiveporcupine]

28. "he's a certifiable socialist and once lived on a commune"

And that's a bad thing, because?



edited to add: Damnit Scotty, you snuck that by me again. I didn't notice who wrote the post.

[beam me up scottie]

33. He's "certifiable"!

I can't remember the last time I laughed this hard.

[lewebley3]

85. Thats bad because the American people don't want him:

[passiveporcupine]

97. You may be in for a rude awakening

[Major Nikon]

39. You say that as if it's a bad thing

This isn't the 1980's. Jumping up and down and yelling commie just doesn't cut the mustard anymore with anyone who isn't a teabagger, and those loons view all Democrats that way regardless.

[jwirr]

59. He lived in an Isreali kibbutz. A bit of a difference from a commune.

[JDPriestly]

68. 'once lived in a commune"? Do you mean the kibbutz in Israel?

The average American will love him for that.

It's Israel. Everybody except people on DU and Pacifica loves Israel.

That will be a plus for Bernie.

[Maedhros]

88. Socialist bashing. Nice.

You're flat wrong. The more people learn about Bernie, the more support he gets. This has been demonstrated.

[quakerboy]

8. Its going to get interesting

I think we can beat them, no matter who we nominate.

I think that Bernie is the best choice, out of the available options.

The problem is really comparing things. The RW hates Clinton today. They dont know Bernie. And Hillary was again touted as invincible for nomination, so they are geared up to oppose her.

If we nominate Bernie instead, the RW will re-aim the lie machine and get to work.

That's how politics works now.

[99th_Monkey]

55. A number of the RWers know Bernie

and the mostly respect him, because he says what he means, means what
he says, and doesn't stab Congressional colleagues in the back. He's earned
this reputation honestly, and learned how to stand firmly for what he knows is
right, without resorting to nasty tricks.

That kind of POTUS, can get a lot of important stuff done that otherwise would
be fought tooth & nail, like happened to Hillary on health care, back in the day..

[quakerboy]

112. The RW machine will still kick into high gear

Whether individuals respect Bernie or not. Hell, he could change his entire platform to match the republican agenda exactly, and the RW machine would still go into smear mode if he gets the nomination.

Im for Bernie. But I dont even begin to imagine that the corporate powers would sit back and take that one quietly.

[99th_Monkey]

114. But that it precisely the point!

"Bernie could change his entire platform to match" RWers, but they'd still ..." <--THIS

THIS^ will NOT happen with Bernie as POTUS. He's not an "aim low, then negotiate"
type of guy. Bernie is the FDR POTUS we've all been waiting for. His message is clear,
and unchanging. Hell he's been saying this stuff for decades now.

Bernie Calls-out Criminals Greenspan, Rubin, and Summers on illegal Bailouts - 1997 Classic

I DO agree -- like RWers did to Jimmy Carter -- that their noise machine will still be
turned on Bernie, even though many RWers may respect him as a person. That
just goes with the territory apparently anymore, unlike the days of Ike & Gerald Ford.

But the public is starting to see that for what it is, a toxic distraction from getting anything
useful or beneficial accomplished, and they do not like it one bit. Bernie can turn this
back onto itself, and he will.

[delrem]

56. "If we nominate Bernie instead, the RW will re-aim the lie machine and get to work."

Of course. But the RW has been aligned vs Bernie from the moment he announced -- coming out with memes like "Bernie doesn't care about PoC because only a rare few attended his announcement in Vermont", and we've seen what that was morphed into even on DU. Those are calculated RW attacks. "Rovian" - attack him on his strengths.

By the time Bernie Sanders wins the Dem nomination he'll have survived the very worst they can throw at him, and you had better believe it, the Republican party is probably the richest target on the planet and they'll be bewildered, scrambling to put together a platform of any kind out of the mess of their philosophy of absolute personal greed.

[quakerboy]

111. Was that the RW?

Im not certain.

I hope he makes it. Would be the best nominee in my lifetime, and the best president in 50 years or more.

[sorechasm]

9. 47% prefer the Bern to the Bush, yet 41% don't know who he is

I'm no mathematician, but that's a pretty sad reputation for the Bushes, though well deserved.

'Bern the Bushes!'

[libdem4life]

40. Good one...I thought immediately about the infamous

Abrahamic.spontaneous. combustion event known as the Burning Bush)

[jwirr]

66. Bern the bushes and the burning bush are something to remember for the general. Love it.

[zentrum]

12. BERN! nt

[tomm2thumbs]

15. Watch post-1st debate to see how things shift nationally

Gonna be an interesting evening and week thereafter.

[RufusTFirefly]

17. Not if the spin-meisters do their job

After the first debate between Kerry and Dubya, I told a friend, "Bush is going to find some way to postpone the other debates. He can't possibly survive another drubbing like the one he had tonight."

I was so naive.

[Motown_Johnny]

19. I would even say we will need 2 debates behind us

since 1 might be a fluke.

If Hillary comes off as looking contrived and Bernie comes off as looking sincere, two debates in a row... the game changes.

[RufusTFirefly]

20. Don't worry. I have a reliable source....

... who tells me that Clinton will be practicing very hard to look more sincere and less contrived.

[Motown_Johnny]

22. Kewl, I have a reliable source....

...who tells me that Rick Perry will be practicing very hard to look smarter and more thoughtful.

[RufusTFirefly]

23. And he's also working on learning how to count to three.

It's been a little tough going so far. But hey, it's still early.

[Motown_Johnny]

25. and leopards are practicing to change their spots.

All of these things have roughly the same probability of success.

[daleanime]

26. The one rule Perry's advisors gave him....

no counting.

[L0oniX]

29. How dare you!

[1StrongBlackMan]

30. Uh Huh ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251477517#post126

But it's too early for polls to matter ...

Or, so we're told ... right before someone post an "OMG!!! HRC had better be a'shakin' in her boots" post ... showing, in reality, that she is ahead!

[delrem]

58. Hillary has very high negatives and nowhere to go but down.

As people listen to the alternatives on the Dem side, it will be less "OMG, of course I support Hillary and not Trump", and more of a debate between Dems regarding the direction of their party. The "Hillary is the anointed one. Only Hillary can win." name recognition argument will be cast aside and Hillary Clinton will have to win on her actual history and plans for the future. Just like every other Dem candidate.

And every dirty trick that her campaign throws out at her competitors will come back and bite them on the ass.

[1StrongBlackMan]

70. Well ..

Hillary Clinton will have to win on her actual history and plans for the future. Just like every other Dem candidate.

As best as I can tell, she is ... despite what you are hearing in this bubble.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. Nice how they equate Hillary with Romney....

The Beltway is still convinced the electorate luvs Wall Street.

[tomm2thumbs]

37. I remember when Obama did

I think it is about 3:44 in -- calling out on ambiguity

[Spitfire of ATJ]

62. I can already picture her looking lost as Bernie speaks and then acting like he's the enemy.

[delrem]

63. Very interesting. Did either of those politicians raise the social security tax cap?

Or was it just bullshitters bullshitting the electorate?

What actually happened "on the ground", now the '08 election is over and Barrack Obama won?
Is it different than if Hillary Clinton won and the tax cap wasn't raised?

[raindaddy]

109. Did he say universal healthcare for every citizen and raising the Payroll Tax cap?

Refreshing to be able to vote for a candidate who's actually serious about those issues...

[fbc]

42. RoF called her the female Mitt Romney in their Bernie endorsement.

"Hillary Clinton is neither a liberal nor a true conservative. Rather, she’s an electable Democratic candidate who leans to the right. She’s the Democratic version of Mitt Romney. President Hillary Clinton will be a conservative Barack Obama and a somewhat liberal George Bush. She’ll bail out banks in another collapse and send ground troops to a foreign country in the event of a terror attack.”

http://www.ringoffireradio.com/2015/07/ring-of-fires-official-position-on-bernie-and-hillary-because-you-asked/

[LondonReign2]

78. That's spot on IMO

Not As Bad As A Republican is her most compelling attribute. But if you want to ensure the Democratic party keeps moving to the right and no banksters are harmed, she's your candidate.

[Buns_of_Fire]

89. "Vote Hillary -- She's Not a Republican!" may not be much of an endorsement,

but it fits on a bumper sticker!

We need a thread to help the Big Brains of each campaign come up with short, pithy slogans that are easily transferable to bumper sticker-isms. Americans love pithy. The pithier the better.

[Maedhros]

90. Ding! We have a winner. [n/t]

[cantbeserious]

34. No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

eom

[Thespian2]

36. K & R!!!

[LynneSin]

41. That's because the strongest candidate is Joe Biden!

[fbc]

45. LOL, Biden will be a last resort to try and steal "Anybody but Hillary" votes from Sanders.

but it won't work.

[LynneSin]

51. Wait and see. Biden is coming in August!

[jwirr]

69. Yes, what the Democratic Party officials had better understand is that if they are playing games

like getting people to run just to get the voter from Bernie it will not work at least not in the long run.

We are already furious at the DNC about favoring Hillary. If the party plays dirty politics to win this for Hillary the new and returning voters Bernie is bringing in will not take it. They are coming back because he is the real thing. If they suspect in anyway that he is being cheated - they will leave again.

But party heads are in such a bubble I doubt that they are going to see.

[fbc]

44. The tide has turned, but it will take a few moths for the polls to catch up. Also:

[img][/img]

[Thinkingabout]

52. I am supporting a strong Hillary Clinton, she is experienced, capabe and ready for the job.

[delrem]

67. The problem with "experienced, capable and ready for the job"

is that it lacks actual substance. It's empty. For example, that same empty phrase can be applied to Jeb Bush. It could be applied to George W. Bush in '05. So it's meaningless.

[hueymahl]

73. To be fair, I don't think at any point in history could you label GWB as "capable" NT

[fbc]

79. She's been ready since 2000... but now the times have passed her by.

The majority of democrats do not want a centrist candidate looking to work with republicans.

[Thinkingabout]

83. And you think Bernie is ready and capable, talk about time passing someone by, he has sat in

congress for years without getting any major bills passed, yes, time has passed since 1991. What candidate is working for republicans? Working across the lines is accomplishing what Congress should be doing and not the do nothing congress.

[Armstead]

87. No I'd say the times are catching up to him

As for Congress not passing his bills. That is more about how corrupt and/or timid too many Democrats have been.

[fbc]

93. +1 exactly.

[Thinkingabout]

98. Yea, shallow.

[Armstead]

100. No, shallow is "Trust us. Whats good for corporate America and Wall St....

"..will be good for you.......someday."

[Thinkingabout]

101. We will see who gets the delegates.

[Armstead]

103. Probably Hillary

We still live in a corrupt and decaying pilitical system in which the Elite Status Quo holds all the cards, snd calls the shots, regardless of what is the best course for the majority of the population.

I have no illusions about who is likely to be the nominee.

But I cling to the hope that the forces of positive progressive populist change that Sanders represents will grow and push us in a better direction.

[Big Vincenz]

81. OK, Hillarite.

We shall see how "strong" she is.

[rhett o rick]

107. That's all true, but it's the outcome of the "job" that concerns me.

Will Wall Street continue to have free reign over our economy? Will we continue with domestic spying on all Americans? Will we step up the continuous war in the Middle East? I think so if Clinton is elected.

[99th_Monkey]

57. K&R for Berniementum!!!!!!!!!! -nt

[ericson00]

61. can't find a bio worth talking about Liam Miller

so it seems his bio is "Bernie pusher" as almost everything he's written about is Bernie.

Not a suprise either: the Puffington Host never respected the Clintons much, as a left-of-center magazine ought to.

[WillyT]

65. They Take Anybody With An Intelligent Point... Give It A Try...

[marym625]

71. K&R!

Thank you, WillyT, for your constant posts informing us and keeping it real!

[PatrickforO]

75. The Dem establishment doesn't know how to talk about Sanders, that's

for sure. But we are.

The thing I worry about is during the general election he might get smothered with Koch brothers ads. That's when he'll need our help most.

[McKim]

76. This Smutty Story is Beneath the Dignity of Reasonable People

This story from Huffington Post belongs in the supermarket tabloid rack. While I am a firm Senator Sanders supporter, I like to judge
politicians by their political actions. For me, Hillary Clinton voted for the Iraq War, end of story. She did not divorce Bill, end of story. Bill Clinton hurt the working class people and defended the banks and big corps. End of story. I like facts, not tawdry gossip.

[lewebley3]

86. Clinton help rebuild the middle Class: Bush and GOP destoryed the Ecno

The Clintons raised taxes on the rich, and put people back to
work on higher wages.

[Maedhros]

91. Whoa - back it up there for a second...

"Smutty?" I'm not following you on that. Can you expand on that idea?

[rock]

80. Just to make sure sure I understand your devious plan

We run Bernie because the stupid Republicans don't know who he is and will therefore not come out to vote against him! Voila! We win.

[LiberalLovinLug]

92. I think the point is that there doesn't have to be a "devious" plan

Hillary has all kinds of material from her "scandalous past". Sure most of it is BS Fox News clap trap, but perception is everything in politics. She has done or been accused of doing or saying things that the right doesn't like, AND other things the left were not too enamored with.

Bernie has been a Senator for much longer and they still have nothing on him. The only thing they have is that he calls himself a "Democratic Socialist". And actually that is quite brilliant. As he has already played the "socialist" card on himself waaaaaaaaay before the GOP can do it. No matter how loud they scream "SOCIALIST!", he and most Americans will just yawn and say "...and?"

[blackapron]

82. go cinton

willy t. is a rep. like crystal. they no Clinton will crush whoever. Bernie is a nice guy who cannot win. please read Barney Franks article about "Why" Sander should NOT run.

[olddots]

108. oy ...

[Vinca]

96. I've always had the feeling Bernie had more of a chance of winning the general than the primary.

People right, left and center appreciate the lack of BS.

[Progressive dog]

99. The Republicans disagree and

have been putting their money where their mouths are. Some of our money too.

[PBass]

102. First of all, the Huffington Post sucks...

(unless you need daily updates on what Howard Fineman thinks, what the Kardashians are doing, and Honey Boo Boo).

Everything quoted in the OP seems to be made-up "facts" - opinions masquerading as facts. They don't reflect the actual polling that I recall.

Seems like wishful thinking is fueling "the Bern".

[PBass]

104. Also, "Bernmentum" is in the media's best interest.

The media wants a horse race. Beware of investing too heavily in articles that make the early polling seem tight. Hillary has massive name recognition, and is one of the most popular politicians in America (even though the white male author might not realize that). Yeah, she has high negatives, and her approval rating is not that high. Except almost every other politician polls worse than that. So relatively speaking, her numbers are strong.

On the other hand, Bernie Sanders is almost completely unknown on the national level.

[L0oniX]

116. K & R