When Hillary Clinton "updates" her positions, how can we be sure they stay that way?

[fbc]

Here is an example of an instance where a strong position against banks in defense of families got thrown out the window just a few years later:

tl;dw: After speaking with Warren, Clinton becomes a champion against a bank sponsored bankruptcy bill in the later days of Bill Clinton's second term and deservedly gets credit for inspiring Bill's veto of the bill. A few years later, as a Senator, she votes for the same bill when it comes back up.

I don't want Bernie Sanders "pulling Clinton left" on the issues for her to jump right back to the other side if she becomes president. I think she should tell people her actual, honest positions on issues, and when I say "actual, honest positions" I mean the way she would act on those issues if she becomes president.

[bowens43]

1. wet your finger, stick it up in the air and see which way the wind is blowing.....

that's where she is on the issues at any given time.

[liberal N proud]

2. No difference with any candidate

Time and time again, there are complaints of an elected official, mainly Presidents, who didn't keep their campaign promises and they shifted their position.

DU is full of that at any given point of Obamas term.

[whatchamacallit]

3. I guess it's all good then

[artislife]

4. Then why even support a candidate if their platforms and speeches

Are just empty words?

[Sheepshank]

6. why support a candidate that permites lies about accepting PAC money?

as if that makes him some sort of noble wonderman....the reality is that campaign laws don't allow any candidate to accept money

[artislife]

7. Great deflection

Not....yawn.

[whatchamacallit]

9. Good question

I've noticed many voters, on both sides of the aisle, simplify (dumb down) the process by projecting a uniformity of virtue onto their party. Seems no matter what individual politicians do, if they're playing for your team, support is assumed to be automatic.

[artislife]

12. Yes

If this premise is true, then we should vote for H because she can rock the pant suit
Or we should vote for Trump because he has a TV show
Or vote for Bernie because he has unruly locks
Or O'Malley because he is the underdog.

Then this site should cease to exist.

[NCTraveler]

39. They aren't empty words. It is them filling us in on their ideology.

You are equating ideology with governing. While ideology influences governing at all levels, one NEVER gets to stick to their ideology completely. Sanders has not done so as a Senator, he wouldn't do so as a President. Neither would Hillary or anyone else.

[artislife]

41. I guess I am

I agree, we never get everything we want and that is reality.

What is hard for me, is if I can trust I am actually getting their idealogy or is it the idealogy of what they think will get them elected?

Bernie has been pretty true to his idealogy, and even if I don't 100% agree with him on everything, I do believe he is presenting the most honest assessment of his idealogy.

Thank you for really answering. It has given me things to ponder.

[NCTraveler]

52. I couldn't and wouldn't argue against either of these.

This comment with respect to Hillary - "What is hard for me, is if I can trust I am actually getting their idealogy or is it the idealogy of what they think will get them elected?"

This comment that flows off the previous one but with respect to Sanders - "Bernie has been pretty true to his idealogy, and even if I don't 100% agree with him on everything, I do believe he is presenting the most honest assessment of his idealogy."

Hillary is a political and ideological beast in the circles she travels. Sometimes she has shown she is willing to sacrifice one for the other. Sanders is simply an ideological beast. While he has definitely done some things politically that go against his ideology, they are so far and few between, it is impressive. That in itself is a huge reason to like Sanders. That doesn't always mean it is the best person to govern. I truly think we would all benefit from either candidate.

[Sheepshank]

5. OMFG we are back to evolving or not evolving?

If that is the case, then Bernie thinks orgasms will stave off cancer and women like to be gang raped? is that where you want to go with this conversation? how do we know Bernie wont' devlove back to that type of thought or even worse when it comes to women's isues?

Politicians MUST adjust to the times, the community, the needs of their constituency, whish is always on flux. Politicians are supposed to represent the people, not their own desires. If Politicians never took note of what their constituency wants, then we may as well resign ourselves to a dictatorship.

This line of thought is getting old, and frankly is very, very stupid.

[rateyes]

11. Did you watch the video? Hillary devolved

on the issue of bankruptcy! Thanks, but no thanks, on politicians like that on the big issues like this!

[artislife]

15. I am going to start a drinking game

That we all get to have a shot every time you refer to Bernie and orgasms to stave off cancer.



Party city at the Bernie Group!

[Sheepshank]

20. well...did he or didn't he evolve from that?

and btw...this is the first time I have raised this particular Bernie'ism.

You should be more careful when stalking and keep your players straight. Maybe I should bring it up more often to help you with your party goals.

[artislife]

24. It so difficult because you all sound so much alike

It's as if you have a thread with a talking point of how to go and conquer the day!

The other---just like Benghazi--junk meme

[Sheepshank]

28. make notes...it will help you in the future n/t

[artislife]

30. No, I look at avatars and get to know from there

Though the peace sign hand with the American Flag is used by a few who are not in lockstep.

[Sheepshank]

33. you do realize people often share the same avatars, or even change avatars?

your plan doesn't work very well

[artislife]

34. Well your name is now burned into my retna.

[Cheese Sandwich]

63. Some of us just DU for fun. Not everyone is such a pro that we take notes on other people.

[stevenleser]

8. When Sanders supporters thoroughly piss off every Hillary voter, how will they win the election if

he somehow wins the nomination?

[whatchamacallit]

10. So are you saying you won't necessarily vote for the nominee?

Interesting...

[fbc]

13. Is that a threat

I have said many times on this board that I will vote for Hillary Clinton if she wins the nomination.

Are you saying Hillary Clinton supporters would or should not vote for Bernie Sanders if he wins the nomination?

Is that out of spite? Or do you think that maybe Jeb Bush might be a closer alternative if voting for Hillary Clinton is not an option?

[artislife]

18. Shhh ...the pledge only works one way....

[Sheepshank]

23. How exciting. Bernistas are getting a taste of their own medicine

and the response is incredulous?

Why haven't you spoken to your own months ago when they very vocally said they don't care if they throw the GE...they won't vote for hillary if she is the Dem Nominee.

[stevenleser]

25. Think logically about this for a moment. How could it be a threat? I can't control large swaths of

Hillary voters.

But you and other folks can certainly piss them off.

[fbc]

31. Here's the reality

The only people seeing these posts are DU members and when it comes to DU members, Hillary Clinton supporters are such a small minority that they couldn't elect a local council member in a small backwater.

The numbers are clear: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026592890

[stevenleser]

35. It's not just on DU, but DUers can make the experience what it is for other DUers. That's reality.

Tearing down Hillary is not Bernie's path to the nomination anyway.

The only thing that will do is cause Biden to enter the race and inherit Hillary's supporters.

[fbc]

37. What's wrong with Biden entering the race?

Joe is a good guy.

As far as I know he's not a big bank/wall street puppet.

[stevenleser]

44. Nothing wrong. He'd inherit all of Hillary's original level of support and then Bernie supporters

would be faced with trying to tear him down too I suppose.

Again, tearing down Hillary is not Bernie's path to the nomination and it is definitely not his path to a general election win.

[stevenleser]

47. Nope, she's not. Bernie supporters plus Republicans plus the media are with fake scandals.

But you knew that.

[stevenleser]

53. Oh, so you are defending stuff like Benghazi now? Good luck with that.

And as far as the other sillyness you posted you know as soon as you go ad-hominem it means you lose, right? The Ref has ruled on that one:

[Cheese Sandwich]

62. I like this referee meme!

Want to learn how to use it.

[fbc]

49. No offense, but that sounds like nonsense.

Joe Biden automatically inherits Hillary supporters? There's no evidence for that. Clinton and Biden are not the same person.

No Bernie supporters would switch to Biden? Why not? Just because Sanders is a clear favorite over Hillary Clinton with 90% of Democratic Underground members, that doesn't necessarily mean that Sanders would be just as popular in comparison to Biden. It's quite possible some Bernie supporters would switch to Joe Biden.

I think you are basically missing the point of the movement behind Bernie Sanders. This isn't about Bernie Sanders vs. the world. This is about Democrats taking their party back from weak centrists with no principles who let Fox News opinion polls guide their positions.

Frankly, the idea that Joe Biden belongs in the same category with Hillary Clinton is an insult to Joe Biden. You may be right, but I do not have enough information at the present time to agree with such a scathing repudiation of Biden's character.

[stevenleser]

51. No, you dont want to hear it, but it is exactly what would happen. nt

[BKH70041]

56. It is already.

"This is about Democrats taking their party back"

Democrats already have the party. There's a group of progressive populists who want to make the party into something it never was nor will it become, but that's a different topic.

This time next year when their progressive candidate is packing up for home and they're forced to violate their whole belief system and vote for the "lesser of two evils" corporate candidate, they might get it, but I doubt it. I've seen nothing to indicate they're capable of seeing outside the box they want to believe is real.

Sanders supporters need to form their own party. They'll never be happy in the "corporate" parties.

[virtualobserver]

17. so Hillary voters would sit out the election and throw it to the Republicans?

How could you suggest such a thing?

[Sheepshank]

21. Bernistas apparently had set the standard months ago.....

for sitting out an election because their guy didn't win the Primary.

I wonder why they would suggest such a thing?

[virtualobserver]

27. When a Democratic strategist implies that Sanders supporters pissing off Hillary supporters

might lead to Hillary supporters abandoning the Democratic nominee.....it is a little more serious.

[Sheepshank]

29. why is that more serious?

I don't see it. I see delicious irony.

[virtualobserver]

32. savor it, then n/t

[jwirr]

64. They have suddenly forgotten the SCOTUS and what it means to women.

[L0oniX]

22. Save that for your next appearance on Fox.

[NCTraveler]

45. Have you watched him on Fox?

He does an excellent job discussing issues from the progressive side. Maybe you can show where he promotes a conservative opinion on Fox? Is this a position you only hold for him, or does it work for others as well? You might be forced to dislike some of this countries best progressives with this line of flawed thought. I mean, consistency and all. Then again, you actually made an attempt to attack Hillary on womens reductive rights. A position even the most ardent of Hillary haters don't hold.

[frylock]

57. !

[NCTraveler]

42. He won't win the primary, and is currently stalled, for just that reason.

That is one of the reasons they have completely left the "look at him skyrocket in the polls," to "Look at Hillarys favorable numbers." That change in regular rhetoric is happening for a reason.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=484242

What is happening with his supporters and surrogates really isn't fair to Sanders himself.

Scorched earth and all.......

[BlueMTexpat]

48. I have a pretty high "piss off threshold" in politics but there

are some so-called Sanders "supporters" on DU who have almost managed to take me there.

The thing is that it is those supporters who have almost pissed me off, not the candidate. However, I don't believe that those supporters truly represent the majority of Bernie supporters - Bernie's true supporters and Hillary's actually agree on much more than we disagree - and I also believe that Bernie himself would not be pleased by the actions and words of those so-called supporters who simply want to "dis" Hillary or to pick digital fights with people they don't even know.

Posting on DU is like being an armchair quarterback or an armchair warrior - lots of fuss and fury, but little substance or result.

What we all really need to do is to get out there and pound the pavements to meet people to ensure that every potential Democratic voter in 2016 is registered to vote in a way that GOPer-passed voting restrictions that target them specifically will not matter. And then on voting day (if there isn't an extended voting period), we need to make sure that those voters can get to the polls and vote. Otherwise, none of this fuss and fury matters.

[Armstead]

55. Um, the inverse also applies

[Autumn]

61. The same as when Hillary supporters thoroughly piss off every Bernie voter

if by some chance she somehow wins the nomination.

[Romulox]

14. Her "centrist" record for every year of her life (less the last six months) is the best guide. nt

[SwampG8r]

16. Always follow with a check

You have to speak a language she knows

[Cheese Sandwich]

65. ouch. nt

[winter is coming]

19. Same as with any other candidate: do you think they're honest and trustworthy? n/t

[BainsBane]

26. Why do you care? You aren't voting for her regardless.

You don't want a politician who listens to the public to represent their interests, fine. Don't vote for her. You prefer someone who doesn't care what the view of the public is but instead focuses on their own views. Fine, you can vote for that.

[virtualobserver]

36. when you say "public" don't you actually mean "donors"? n/t

[BainsBane]

38. I mean voters

like the voters Clinton has been talking to all around the country, LISTENING. No, I don't just mean the chosen few who have decided they are the only Americans whose views matter. I mean the population as a whole, even if they aren't white, upper-middle and middle-class, and mad at the Democratic party.

[virtualobserver]

40. She is listening......What words do the American people want to hear?

As for actual positions on things that we care about?.....She will fill us in on that when she is President.

[HassleCat]

43. Govern from the middle

Most presidents run to the right or left of their party, then tack back toward the middle when they have to deal with Congress. Clinton would certainly do this. Sanders would have to do some of it.

[beam me up scottie]

54. Kicking for the gratuitous association of Bernie with "gang raping women" and "orgasms".

I guess nothing is too low for some of you, and swift boating a good man is infinitely better than actually discussing the issues raised by the op.

Keep it classy, HC supporters.

[Juicy_Bellows]

58. Don't hold your breath. Nt.

[EndElectoral]

59. Simple answer. You can't.

[nc4bo]

60. I don't.

Figured if I scrolled down the thread I'd find just the right comment to piggyback on and here it is.

I can not trust HRC and that's just the way it is.