Been here 10 weeks, and have already seen LOADS of Hillary-bashing

[Charles de Gaudless]

Not a good idea, if I might be so bold as to say. Yes, I'll be voting for Sanders if the primary gets as far as Ohio. But if, as I suspect, Secretary Clinton ends up with the nomination, I will unhesitatingly vote for her in November of next year. I am in my 68th year, and have long since learned that, most of the time, the choices we face in life are between the lesser of two evils.

I'm not suggesting that Hillary is evil; she isn't. But she certainly has a lot of baggage, and is not my ideal candidate. But even at her worst, she is massively superior to any of the Genetic Experiments Gone Horribly Awry running for the Republicrazies, and we denigrate her at our own---and the country's---peril.

[840high]

1. choices we face in life are between the lesser of two evils.

I'm older than you - used to vote for the lesser of two evils. NO more

[Mnemosyne]

7. Word, 840high, word. nt

[rock]

60. "...the lesser of two evils..."

Then you'll not vote very often and you are perfectly free to do so. Just realize that's gonna more often be the case.

[840high]

64. I will not support evil anymore. My

plan is to write in candidate that I think is honest and good for America.

[winter is coming]

2. If you've been here for ten weeks, you've seen that argument made before.

And how persuasive it is.

[JaneyVee]

3. A voice of reason.

[840high]

12. Evil is evil.

[JaneyVee]

22. Hyperbole is hyperbole.

[Charles de Gaudless]

24. Exactly

And there's WAY too much of it in our politics!

[sabrina 1]

29. Don't worry, we are not going to have to make the usual choice. All people have to do

is vote for the best candidate, and not worry about the scare tactics we hear every election.

Those days are over for a lot of us.

I will be supporting Bernie in both the primaries and the GE.

[restorefreedom]

48. what sabrina said. nt

[Agony]

4. Enough is ENOUGH. No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go

(with apologies to cantbeserious for outright plagiarism)

[Agschmid]

14. I don't think they'd mind.

[Alfalfa]

32. +1

Bernie for me. Hillary is NOT inevitable.

[gwheezie]

5. If Bernie is nominated

I will vote for the lesser of 2 evils. I would even campaign for him to keep the GOP out of the WH.

[sabrina 1]

30. How many issues Bernie has supported and voted for over the years, do you disagree with?

How much LESS evil, iow, is his voting record than say, any of the Repubs? A lot less, not so much less?

[gwheezie]

35. I thought I was pretty funny

But carry on.

[SidDithers]

42. You were...

Sid

[sabrina 1]

46. I thought the question was about something else.

Funny how hard it is to get answers to simple questions.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

59. Love me some Shirley Chisolm!

The only other truth teller I have seen in American politics, besides Bernie. I can't say about Adlai Stevenson, because I was in diapers. But after that it has been Shirley and Bernie.

[gwheezie]

62. I have a fondness for Barbara Lee also

No matter who is nominated I'd love it if she had a cabinet position.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

63. I have always admired her tremendous courage, politically and otherwise.

But don't know that much about her. I wikied her and that story is incredible. She is an inspiration. Based on what I have read and heard, she is serving the people.

[leftofcool]

6. "Genetic experiments gone horribly awry"

Can I please steal this??????????? Good Post!

[Charles de Gaudless]

21. Feel free, friend!

[fbc]

8. Yeah, I'd vote for the lesser of two evils, But I don't think we'll need to because

[img][/img]

[99th_Monkey]

13. +100 - This^ nt

[NYCButterfinger]

9. Hillary may be seen as DLC, but she is better than crazy Walker and Cruz

Hillary Clinton has DLC ties, but she has stood for working class families before Walker and Cruz ever got into politics. Yes, she was on the board of Wal-Mart, but she has more credibility. If Bernie Sanders loses the nomination, she would be more electable. She can win OH, PA, MO, IA, WI. She has to work on the likeability issues, and her lack of enthusiasm, but it is July 2015, and we have a long way to go.

[Agschmid]

15. Did you hear about Huckabee?

Sending the FBI out to stop abortions...

THAT is the other side, yikes.

[NYCButterfinger]

16. Huckabee is CRAZY

He can win Iowa, South Carolina, he is popular in some Jewish areas such as NYC, Florida, but he is too crazy.

Huckabee=

[Agschmid]

17. I can't even rationalize that thought in my head.

Yes he is crazy, and I don't even really believe these people are genuine... But maybe they are?

Ugh.

[sabrina 1]

47. That doesn't seem like much motivation for all those non-voters

and Independents who have just given up on politics BECAUSE of this kind of motivation in every election.

And what has Hillary done for the working class? Does she support the TPP, is she still convinced that the Republican Welfare Reform Bill is great for the poor?

I never see much talk about where she stands on issues, just 'she SAID this or that NOW even though she did have to evolve on the issue'.

Is she FOR the Keystone Pipeline?

I don't have a clue where she stands on some of the most important issues for voters in this campaign.

Which is why I support the candidate who leaves no doubt about where he stands AND has a record that is consistent with what he is saying during this campaign.

[HassleCat]

10. I agree

I am perfectly willing to explain why I like Sanders better, but I am not willing to express it in negative terms concerning Clinton.

[beam me up scottie]

11. Vote for Hillary! Because she's better than a Republican!

When that's the best reason you can come up with don't expect people to fall all over themselves defending her here during the primaries.

There's a difference between "bashing" and valid criticism.

[Alfalfa]

33. +1

[restorefreedom]

49. +1 nt

[m-lekktor]

18. yeah, thank baby jesus there is no Bernie bashing going on up in here!

[SidDithers]

43. You're not actually trying to say that there's equal amounts...

of Bernie bashing and Hillary Bashing at DU, are you?

Sid

[malokvale77]

19. In your 10 weeks here...

I suppose you have seen no Bernie bashing.

Some might say: we vote for her at our peril.

Obvious is obvious.

Leave Hillary alone. Amarite?

[MisterP]

20. she's not some slightly-flawed but basically decent candidate

she cheerled Iraq and, with Dems mouthing the same naked shrieking nonsense as President Tinklepants: suddenly it was a legitimate issue instead of just some voice that some drunken douche heard in his head
she didn't just approve of the Honduran coup that was largely the creation of Miguel Facussé--a known kingpin whose agricultural expansion meant shooting and macheteing 200 peasants--she sent cronies to ensure it stayed in power and got recognition (and enrich themselves with blood money)
she oversaw the attack on Libya and practically wet the seat thinking of his death: everything would come up roses for Libya now!

she's been conservative on domestic policy as well; these are not differences of opinion or slower approaches, not something that falls under the handshake-and-make-up well-met-in-debate everyday politicking

[Adrahil]

61. I heard she personally murdered Vince Foster too! nt

[artislife]

23. Oh good, you gave them the pledge.

They should be jumping for joy.

[AtomicKitten]

25. Vote for the war in Iraq, lose the nomination.

Them's the rules.

[Maedhros]

26. Bah! You and your "integrity." What did that ever do for anyone?

[msanthrope]

36. Lincoln Chafee, former Republican, agrees with you....

http://www.thenation.com/article/ready-hillary-pointed-objection-her-iraq-war-record/

[Romulox]

51. Hillary is a former Republican, too. nt

[msanthrope]

53. Yes.....from when she was a teen, 50 years ago. That's relevant! nt

[Romulox]

54. You brought it up. I guess it's "no fair" to remember stuff, when Hillary does it. nt

[msanthrope]

55. Mr. Chafee was a Republican as an adult and fairly recently.....Here is a note on comparisons..

It’s as amusing as it is clumsy and unsophisticated, the lopsided belief that everything is the same everywhere, that context does not matter, that it makes sense to draw ham-fisted equivalencies where none exist, mostly because it’s easier to lash out in a rage than it is to unpack moral or intellectual complexities. 

http://blog.sfgate.com/morford/2015/07/28/a-lion-is-not-a-chicken-essential-distinctions-for-the-perplexed/

[AndreaCG]

58. I suppose you said the same about Kerry in 2004

Because you are of course a model of consistency.

[SunSeeker]

27. K & R

[Jim Lane]

28. I've already seen LOADS of loose use of the term "Hillary-bashing"

To take one example, I've posted about TPA/TPP. It's not Hillary-bashing to:
* report her past statements and actions on trade issues;
* express the opinion that she has been too willing to go along with harmful provisions in agreements;
* criticize her for not opposing fast track strongly and early;
* call her a "corporatist" for this and other reasons.

She's running for President. She's going to have to put up with criticism.

Some people who use the term "Hillary-bashing" seem to apply it to any criticism and couple that with the Republican bogeyman. The argument, presented with varying levels of explicitness, is that Clinton will probably be the nominee and that any criticism of her now is bad because it leaves her less likely to beat the Republican. You appear to suggest endorsement of this view. I disagree, because, to take the most important reason, denigrating her as being too conservative doesn't help the Republican in November. (In fact, it might help Clinton, if she is the nominee, fight off the inevitable Republican charge that she's an extreme leftist.)

I've paid much less attention to the nonideological criticisms (Clinton Foundation, emails, whatever). They're on a different footing; Republicans won't attack Clinton for opposing reinstatement of Glass-Steagall, but they will attack her over emails and the like. Even as to those subjects, however, I don't think we should take the view that Clinton is above criticism. This is the vetting process. Let the criticisms fly. If there's something that takes one of these talking points out of the realm of minor mistake and becomes a serious problem for Clinton, let's find out about it now, before we pick a nominee.

[stevenleser]

40. If folks who support Hillary say it's bashing, then it's bashing. Likewise

If Bernie supporters think something is bashing then it is bashing.

[Romulox]

52. Truly, this is a great argument!

[Jim Lane]

57. Well, I object to what I say is Hillary-bashing-bashing. (n/t)

[Alfalfa]

31. I've seen criticism

But I honestly can't say I've seen any "bashing".

[oasis]

34. The "Lesser of Two Evils" chorus will be singing a different tune

after a Republican President and congress begins setting America back 50 years.

[djean111]

37. Oh, that seems familiar - any criticism of Hillary is considered "bashing". Right.

And noted.

[Vattel]

38. Criticizing Clinton from the left in the primaries won't hurt her in the general.

[DCBob]

39. The Bernie Bunch knows the only way he can win is by taking Hillary down.

So they have resorted to RW style bashing. Its disgusting.

[stevenleser]

41. Well, they think so, but it would only bring Biden in and Biden would win

The primary, not Bernie.

The chance Bernie has, if he has one, is to make Bernie seem great, not make Hillary seem bad.

[DCBob]

44. yes, I suspect you are correct.

Biden would be the logical "Plan B" should Hillary tank.

[Romulox]

50. It's working!!!!! nt

[nc4bo]

45. Stick around and you'll see it goes both ways til Sunday mornings. Sheesh. nt

[BeyondGeography]

56. Normal

There's always going to be an establishment/insurgent dynamic, and many of the latter's supporters are going to be as feisty as many of the former's are smug. It's good we have a clear choice and that Sanders is running. If Hillary wins, the vast majority of Sanders supporters will vote for her. Whenever that question is polled here, well over 90% say they will.

Moreover, Sanders has said he won't go after Hillary, and she will focus her attacks on the GOP, as she did very effectively yesterday. That lays a foundation for unity, provided the DNC doesn't get stupid and freeze Bernie out of the convention.

I'm not a big fan of the Clintons, don't support anyone right now and wish there was a stronger, 2008-type field out there to choose from. But I do have a lot of respect for the Clintons' political know-how at the end of the day (witness the choreography at the 2008 convention, which not only paved the way for Hillary to be SoS, but smoothed things over with Obama's voters, particularly blacks, who have forgiven her earlier campaign transgressions and are now solidly behind her). Most people will feel exactly as you do in your OP, and the Clintons will probably give them every opportunity to do so.

[sonofspy777]

65. bashing?

Why is it when we try and hold someone,

<<<<<< say, a politician >>>>>>>>>

to account that we are accused of "bashing"?

Besides, what IS the Democratic platform?

With it unstated we should make a case for it being

about the things that are actually important to the

majority of the American People.

Hillary is off message. YMMV

[BainsBane]

66. Yes, but your suggestion assumes people want

The Democratic Party to win the presidency if Sanders isn't the nominee.

[GeorgeGist]

67. How much in a LOAD?

And how many LOADS?

[Marrah_G]

68. It's the primaries, be warned, people get vicious

It's stupid, but they do. Every. single. time.

[artislife]

69. I am pretty sure there will be more

And bashing going back the other way.
It's like a blood feud.