So I called Bernie's campaign last night

[hootinholler]

I just didn't want him to miss out on all of the great advice he's getting here from camp weathervane because I know he can't afford to focus group all of his positions before he states them.

I think they are packing up and going home since they finally recognized that they can't possibly win.

[Motown_Johnny]

1. Yes, 3 days after the 100,000 person event

they realize they can't win.


Also, he doesn't focus group his positions. You must be thinking of a different weather vane.

[Divernan]

18. That is super! Where can I get a Clinton weathervane?

It would make a great bumpersticker!

[Gloria]

29. I don't get the talking like a rightwinger

Why? Can't you be pro-Sanders without resorting to FAUX speak?

I expect to be flamed, which among Dems, shouldn't really be happening if the're having serious discussions about different candidates...


Oh, I forgot that I was in the wrong forum apparently, although it still is supposed to be open to any Dem, right??

[newfie11]

32. +++++++++++++++

I so agree with you!

[Motown_Johnny]

37. You say others talk like a right winger....

then claim that you will be the one who is flamed?

Wow, project much?


How is pointing out her inconsistent views on a seemingly endless list of issues, plus her refusal to even take a stand on others, talking like a right winger?

If she doesn't want to be seen in this light then she can take some serious positions and stick by them.


edit to add a little something that shows just one example of how bad she is on this subject

[Gloria]

48. Do you honestly think that Bernie, if nominated or elected

wouldn't start "compromising" his views? He has been in the Senate.. he has or anything near as complex as Sec. of State. So, he hasn't had record built up of the ebbs and flows of political life that comes after being in politics in different situations...like First Lady, attempting healthcare, being a Sen. for NY, or being Sec. of State. Or working for the Children's Defense Fund or a private law firm.

Politics is NOT simple, sorry, that's they way it is.

[Motown_Johnny]

49. But his moral compass is true.

Hillary was not in the Senate anywhere near as long as Bernie and as you can see from the video, she started compromising her values almost from the start.

I think this is also why she gave the impassioned 19 minute speech in favor of the use of military force in Iraq. She was smart enough to know it was a the wrong thing to do, but backing a war was always good for a politician. It made him/her look strong and patriotic. Unfortunately for her, and the rest of the world, it was such a debacle that it hurt her politically. What were the odds?

Bernie voted against that war even though it was not popular to do so. He was in favor of marriage equality early on, even though it was not popular to do so. Hillary had to wait until the polls showed a clear majority was in favor before she "evolved" on the subject. Even if we take her at her word, and not assume she was just playing politics with people's civil rights for her own gain, then we need to put her in the bottom 50 percentile of all Americans when it comes to supporting civil rights.

Will Bernie, as President and even as Senator, sometimes take a partial victory when he can't get a total one? Hell yes! Will he do something horribly wrong for political gain? There is no evidence to suggest that he ever would. That is a real difference between the two.



P.S. No response from you about claiming to be the one being attacked while you are the one saying I talk like a right winger. Please respond to that. From my point of view you are just throwing around insults and then claiming to be the one being attacked.

[beam me up scottie]

50. +1

Her vote on the Iraq war and fierce opposition to same sex marriage are the two biggest reasons I won't support her.

If she could be that wrong on those important issues I can't trust her to get it right if she gets another chance.

She's a war hawk with a crappy record on equal rights for lgbt people.

And if you need to "evolve" on civil rights you're no liberal.

[passiveporcupine]

59. Right now Kerry is pushing for war with ISIS

Saw it today on reddit. I wonder if the admin is setting Clinton up so that once she's nominated, she gets to have her very own war to run and show how tough she can be. There is time left for Obama and Kerry to ramp it up, but not actually start a war.

Someone here (in another thread) said that they want a tough President, not an embarrassment. I think they got mixed up. It's the tough ones who often end up being the embarrassment.

[uhnope]

60. Je Suis Charlie

fuck ISIS

[Gloria]

52. ?

I insulted you?


If Clinton is nominated and Bernie does what he says he will do and supports Clinton, please alert me on the direction of his moral compass at that point in the eyes of his supporters.
I will be interested to see how many are disappointed re: his tacit acceptance of Clinton stances vs those who will ignore that and will be content that he was true to his promise to support her.

[Motown_Johnny]

53. Didn't you say I was talking like a right winger?

Maybe I misunderstood your post, but it sure sounded like an insult to me.


Of course we will support Hillary if she wins. Can her supporters say the same thing if he wins? Judging from how they acted in '08 it seems unlikely.

[Cal33]

54. Here's my reply to your first paragraph:

"If Clinton is nominated and Bernie does what he says he will do and supports Clinton, please alert me on the direction of his moral compass at that point in the eyes of his supporters."

I am not for Hillary, but I would vote for her if she should win the Primaries. So, I would be supporting
her, wouldn't I? The reason for my supporting her is that I think she would be doing less damage to our nation
than any Republican president would, and also I would at least be supporting the Democratic Party.

I suppose Bernie could be supporting Hillary for the same reason -- in part, at least. In the way you view the
situation, does this imply a change in the direction of my moral compass?

[passiveporcupine]

55. He will support her if she is nominated, to keep a Republican from winning

but it does not mean he will not call her on her mistakes once she is POTUS. Just like with Obama. He wanted Obama to lean further left, but he still supported him the second time around to help him win, and then still calls him out on what he considers his mistakes.

It's not wrong to vote for a dem instead of letting a republican win, even if it's not your first choice...even if you don't agree with everything they stand for. Even if it's the lesser of two evils.

Or are you OK with Republicans winning?

Only an immature ideologue will throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[PatrickforO]

58. I don't know, Gloria. On the face of it, your reasoning sounds logical, but for one

thing. People who go to Washington prepared to govern have a set of values that aren't negotiable; they will negotiate up the these and then stop. Basically, what I'm saying is that everything isn't relative. Everything isn't subject to change when the wind seems to be blowing the other direction.

Now, I'm for Bernie because his actions over many years consistently point to a set of core beliefs that he isn't willing to compromise on.

Secretary Clinton just doesn't seem to me to have this kind of set of values.

This is readily illustrated by an interaction Bernie Sanders had with Hillary Clinton back in 1993. The following is an excerpt from a Politico article by Ben Schreckinger:

In February, Sanders requested a meeting with Hillary, “to bring in two Harvard Medical School physicians who have written on the Canadian system,” according to the records of the administration’s task force. Those physicians were Stephanie Woolhandler and David Himmelstein, leading advocates for single-payer health care.

They got their meeting at the White House that month, and the two doctors laid out the case for single-payer to the first lady. “She said, ‘You make a convincing case, but is there any force on the face of the earth that could counter the hundreds of millions of the dollars the insurance industry would spend fighting that?’” recalled Himmelstein. “And I said, “How about the president of the United States actually leading the American people?’ and she said, ‘Tell me something real.’”

See, this is exactly the kind of thing I have a problem with about Clinton, because what this tells me is that money can scare her out of doing the right thing. Regrettably, that just isn't good enough for me. I want single payer. I want expanded Social Security. I want my grandchildren to be able to get ahead through attending free college - sure they'll have to work to support themselves; no reason to give them anything on a silver platter, but they won't be buried under obscene piles of debt when they get done, either. And I want a vigorous, uncompromising approach to climate change, because if we don't aggressively address it, and right now, all the rest of what these politicians want is moot.

Lastly, I'll say that I'm very disappointed in Clinton for joining the so-called bipartisan effort to give the executive branch MORE war powers. Our founders put war powers with Congress for a very good reason, because it would allow vigorous and exhaustive debate before we put 'boots on the ground' somewhere. Giving more of that power up to a President, any President is going in the wrong direction.

[NCTraveler]

38. In all seriousness.

I believe Rush links to places where similar items can be purchased. He would appreciate you driving around with one. Every person that saw it on your bumper would associate you with a republican. Knock yourself out. Personally, I have a pro-choice bumper sticker on my car. Probably something you wouldn't want seeing as Hillary is one of our leading advocates in that area.

[Divernan]

39. You're more familiar with Rush than I am, for sure.

I listened to him once around 10 years ago, and he was so vile that I switched stations after just a few minutes. Be careful if you're listening to him (and since you refer to bumper stickers in the current primary race, you are relatively up the minute on his "links&quot . His negative, hate filled world view can be infectious.

When life hands you lemons, make lemonade. You could pre-empt the weather vane as a positive symbol of evolving, being cutting edge or somesuch. And since I have an old Obama sticker and a batch of new Bernie stickers on my car, folks would not associate the sticker with the republicans. So do you have a Hillary sticker on your car? I never saw a single one during the 2008 primary battle, but I saw lots of Obama stickers - had one myself.

[NCTraveler]

41. My point is dead on with respect to your comment.

As far as him linking to them, how people will view it, and how he would love it. Spin how you would like. Second most recognized democrat in this country and you would be proud to make a statement of disgust toward her in public. Try an ant-choice sticker. Or at least one that shows you support progressives. I really think some of you saying you are simply against something actually also says you are for something. Your thoughts here would simply show the public you are in opposition to democrats, meaning you support republicans. People simple assume what you support when your words are simply a statement of opposition. Knock yourself out.

[Motown_Johnny]

51. Then she shouldn't be a political weathervane

and her supporters should avoid using "weathervane" in their posts.

Would it be wrong for an (R) to call W. stupid? Or to say he was a failed President? Hell No!

It is also correct for us to point out that Hillary changes positions constantly and now goes so far as to tell voters that she won't even state her position on TPP and the XL pipeline until after she is President.

If you want to blindly follow Hillary just because she is Hillary you have that right. Don't blame the rest of us for pointing out what a horribly flawed candidate she is while there is still time to nominate someone else.

[Alfalfa]

26. +1

[SamKnause]

2. What makes you think that ???

Could you go into a little more detail please ?

[djean111]

3. Did you remember to demand obeisance to "The Pledge-y Thing"? Because that only

goes one way, ya know, and lately there has been a lot of that.

[hootinholler]

5. Dang it!

I forgot that part. But not to worry, I'm sure Bernie will cover that in his concession speech that I'm expecting any moment now.

I'm sure all the Hillary supporters will be holding their breath in anticipation.

[Cal33]

4. Unless you are being sarcastic, you seem to be saying exactly the opposite of what is happening,

aren't you?

[djean111]

6. Sarcasm would seem to be the key here! n/t

[A Simple Game]

7. Yes and very subtle sarcasm at that. I like it that way, makes it more interesting. n/t

[daleanime]

8. I understand...

and support his decision. As much as I was enjoying working to change things in America we'll just have to put a stop to it.

Time to just lay down and be submissive to the corporate agenda.....

[hootinholler]

10. Woo Hoo!

We're number one!

Worst persons on the whole internet! When I think about who we beat out to get that title it's an amazing accomplishment.

[JaneyVee]

11. It was a hard fought victory, but a victory nonetheless.

[hootinholler]

13. Maybe you should go hang out at stormfront

Just to lighten the mood a little.

Note to jury: The poster asserted that Bernie Supporters are the "worst persons on the internet" I'm simply pointing out one place where they might find some solace among people who are nicer than us mean old poopy head Bernie supporters.

[marble falls]

17. You aren't even close. They hate Bernie more than they hate Hillary. Read the posts on your link ...

Did you purposely misstate the "support" for Bernie?

[JaneyVee]

19. Yeah okay

"Bernie Sanders is a Jew, Socialist, and writer of Rape Fantasies, yet he's still head and shoulders above Hillary. Yeah!"-Stormfront

Google: stormfront bernie sanders. Unfortunately he has some support over there, with thread titles like: "pros and cons of Bernie Sanders", and "Even Bernie Sanders is sick of open borders!", plus a lot more.

Btw, I'm not the one who brought up stormfront.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. Thankfully a jury has put an end to your presence in this thread.

On Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:03 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Speaking of Stormfront...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=486255

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

linking to Stormfront? linking to such hate sites is forbidden on DU

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Aug 1, 2015, 10:10 AM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Accusations of Bernie having anything to do with a vile hate group are ludicrous...what is wrong with people here?
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It isn't the link that gets my vote to hide it is the vile implication of the OP. This person should be sent packing.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The hyperbole is getting to be so over the top I can't tell what is satire or not anymore. trying to link Sanders supports to storefront? that is really ugly.


Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[beam me up scottie]

43. Anyone who links to Stormfront should be banned immediately.

Is nothing too low for Hillary supporters?

[Rob H.]

45. Apparently not, at least for some of them...

since she's being defended in that group, claiming she's being "targeted" rather than condemning her for linking to Stormfront.

[beam me up scottie]

47. The fact that they can't see what's wrong with her post tells me everything I need to know.

If a Bernie supporter had done it they'd be alerting on the post for weeks and screaming for her tombstone.

[hootinholler]

21. ROFLMAO!

[JaneyVee]

22. Check for yourself....

They love his anti-capitalist stance, but are conflicted because he's Jewish.

[hootinholler]

23. I'll just have to concede that you are the stormfront expert

Because I ain't going there.

[JaneyVee]

24. Hey, we have that in common.

In thinking that place is a cesspool.

[hootinholler]

25. So Bernie supporters aren't the worst persons on the internet?

You got me all confuzzled now.

[Rob H.]

46. And yet you linked to it anyway nt

[newfie11]

33. Im suprised at the animosity among Dems

I guess I shouldn't be but really!!!

[sabrina 1]

30. Lol, are there two internets? Because the one I use says Sandroids

are the most popular people on the internets.

[DanTex]

14. It is quite an accomplishment. The way that the internet Bernistas managed to alienate the AA

community on his behalf was impressive. Of all the Clinton conspiracy theories that get tossed around, the most plausible one is that Bernie's internet supporters are secret double-agents trying to make him look bad by association.

[JaneyVee]

15. You would be shocked to believe...

That camp Sandroid is still harassing Black Lives Matters activists on the internet. I see it on my twitter timeline. It's disturbing.

[heaven05]

20. really

since I don't do the twitthing...I wouldn't know. But if true, wouldn't surprise me in the least. And that stormfront thing..allegation? If that true...well...I'm going to see if I can get someone to go there and look....I can't do it.....today. Don't need the stress of just being around the spirit of such, stupid, ignorant shit eating pigs of society. And I'm sorry pigs..I really don't mean to insult you.

[SusanCalvin]

36. That's disturbing.

They are not doing Bernie any good, whether that's intentional or not.

[roguevalley]

56. yet a hillarian linked to Stormfront. Who would go to that neo nazi piss hole

to find something unless they go there a lot. An open forum allows anyone to post here. I doubt largely that either candidate knows how low some go here.

[SusanCalvin]

57. I'm sure you are right about that.

Hopefully not many voters notice either.

[virtualobserver]

27. aren't your arms tired from banging on that drum?

[artislife]

40. Gee, when Janey's drop of a mention of Jewish didn't get a rise

lets start in with the AAs, out of concern that we are alienating them.

So transparent. Interesting that the attacks come back to the supporters not the candidate. The very big difference in the threads. We don't like Hs positions or lack of firm positions on issues we care about and have issues with the candidate.

Well, very few people read here in the scheme of things. Lots of people see Hillary give one of the weakest positions on Planned Parenthood that has ever come from the left. If they are paying attention, this should have a big effect on women who are of child bearing age.

Following Hillary into the great Unchange may be wrong, she may be leading the Dems to the center of the right.

[beam me up scottie]

44. So when HC supporters blamed us for Janey's link to Stormfront getting hidden that's what?

That's not just a conspiracy theory, that's a persecution complex.

Talk about making your candidate look bad by association...

[Bobbie Jo]

34. This exactly. nt

[ybbor]

12. Finally!

Someone had to let him know. Thanks!

Boy, he must feel silly!

[jeanmarc]

31. Nice post

I can see him easily winning a caucus state like Iowa and then there's New Hampshire. Two wins in a row.

[SusanCalvin]

35. Here's the thing.

From what I can see, he actually does pay attention to what is going on and responds to it. Not in the sense of adjusting basic positions, but in the sense of paying attention to what is going on and responding to it. Can't speak for anyone else, but I like that.

[beam me up scottie]

42. Nice.