Sorry Bernie Sanders fans: no more disclaimers.

[murielm99]

I've been posting on DU long enough to have survived several primary seasons. It is always heated. Feelings run hot, people are banned, posts are hidden. As repetitive as this may be, I will say it again. This time it is different. The level of vituperation is dangerous to the health of DU.

It is no secret that I support Hillary Clinton. I expected that I would have to defend her. But I did not expect that I would have to defend her against an array of posts using right-wing sources, incomplete data and outright trolling. Oh sure, we get some of the latter, but in the past, it has been dealt with quickly.

I have noticed, too, that prominent people and new DUers are being treated with special harshness. I noticed a new member called Attorney in Texas. He posted a thread that was worded in a kindly manner. I felt he was stomped by Bernie supporters. Yeah. Welcome to DU, Attorney in Texas.

I see that traditional allies like Barney Frank and Amy Klobuchar are now persona non grata. It does not matter that they have made statements or written articles that are respectful and well-reasoned. They are called names and accused of attacking when they have done no such thing. Even Jane Goodall, who merely shook hands with Clinton, is now being excoriated! That did not happen on this website, but it is still a good example of how low Bernie's supporters have sunk.

Sorry folks, if Hillary deserves tough questions, so does Bernie. Why should he be any different?

I need to get to my main point: disclaimers. I, and most other Clinton supporters, have written many posts that we began with a certain disclaimer. We have stated that we like Bernie, that we always have. We have stated that we will vote for him, if he wins the nomination. Most Clinton supporters have written several posts beginning with similar words.

How are we repaid for our disclaimers? We are told that if Hillary wins the nomination, they will not vote for her. We, and our candidate are called names. We are mass alerted.

I am through with disclaimers. Bernie's fans have soured me. I don't think he is a good guy if he attracts such a gutter-dwelling following. If Bernie cannot control his fans, then he has no leadership ability. Bernie is divisive. He is a polarizing figure. He is not even a Democrat, and I do not like the idea that he is being shoved down our throats on a Democratic website.

I don't care if you have thousands of posts or if you are a brand new troll. I will continue to defend my candidate without disclaimer. I will not be abused, Mommie Dearest.

Pardon me while I go put all the wires hangers back in my closet.

[Scootaloo]

1. Okay. What are your "tough questions"?

Did you forget to include them or is this the first part of a series or what?

[murielm99]

6. Go back and read more carefully.

I said that when anyone criticizes Bernie, they are accused of attacking him, no matter how thoughtfully they have worded their criticism. But Hillary can be questioned about anything, under all types of circumstances.

If Hillary can be subjected to tough questions, so can Bernie. It does not matter what the questions are. They should be asked without his fans getting all up in arms. What's good for the goose is good for the gander: it applies here.

I gave examples of people who had questioned him. I gave examples of how they were treated. I did not offer questions of my own, because that was not the point. Read carefully.

[Scootaloo]

16. You don't have "tough questions" of your own? Okay. So you're just here to sneer.

[murielm99]

22. Go ahead and miss the point,

no matter how carefully it is explained. How typical of supporters of the Independent to introduce a red herring.

[Scootaloo]

24. "How typical of supporters of the Independent to introduce a red herring."

It's like raiiii-aiiii-aiiin, on your wedding day! It's a freeeeeeeee riiiiiide when you're already late! it's the gooooood adviiiiiiice that you just can't take! And who would have thought? It figuuuuuuuuuuures!

[artislife]

39. Oh! You get a gold star.

Ah sh*t...it should have been spoons.......

[calimary]

78. Sigh, murielm99, don't bother. They're not listening. They just want to fight.

Amazing how quickly they prove your point, though. Like freakin' IMMEDIATELY. Criminy - the FIRST post outta the gate. WHACK!!!!!

I'm another one of those many Hillary fans who always tried to be quick with disclaimers - how I liked Bernie Sanders just fine, I'd support him, and I'd vote for him if he beats Hillary to the nomination. I have seen proportionally VERY little of that congeniality returned to me. And I've started looking for it here, too, because it's become an issue now, and I don't want to make a statement I can't at least anecdotally back up. For example, I've seen far more posts from within the Bernie camp that assert they will NOT vote for Hillary under any circumstances, even if she is the Democratic nominee. And it always amps up and gets a lot rougher and nastier from there!

But when I start seeing blogs and commentary outside of DU describing this same problem from their own independent viewpoints (like the one on HuffPo that I and others have shared here) - then I know it ain't just me - or just DU! It is most definitely "a thing." Getting more widespread by the day, evidently.

[MyNameGoesHere]

47. Spot on

You're the subject of the OP. Congrats.

[Scootaloo]

79. I know. The OP is here to sneer at people for not supporting their candidate

This does not deserve thoughtful consideration and chin-stroking.

[Sheepshank]

154. Can't you just stop and listen for just a little bit?

You so-o-o-o don't seem to want to understand. It is NOT about sneering because you support a different candidate. It's not about that at all. Serious...read and put your aggravation a aside for just a little bit. It's about vitriolic comebacks and attacks. It's so prevalent you don't even notice you're doing it....right out of the gate on post #1.

On second thought maybe you do get it. You seem to be in on one of the first posts very frequently with your vitriol. Maybe you know exactly what you are doing.

[Scootaloo]

161. Why should I silence myself to allow someone to hector me?

Why do Clinton supporters feel they are so privileged, so entitled to demand silence?

[Sheepshank]

169. You are right

Go ahead and wallow in whatever makes you happy.

[Scootaloo]

177. I'm aware I'm right

[Sheepshank]

180. Yes, you are right. So right, you are righty right right

So right that you are the biggest right.

Confirmed enough for you? Want to add something else before,you accidently realize no one has told you you cannot speak, ever. Asking you to listen just a little bit quite something else.

[Scootaloo]

186. I've been getting told "shut up and listen to me" for a long time now

it's a regular refrain from Clinton supporters around here.

Do you realize we're in a text-based environment? That this renders your demand that I "stop and listen" inhernetly nonsensical? Stop what? We're not actually talking. no one is being interrupted. No one is trying to talk over the other. Listen? To what? I'm not going to miss anything, I don't need to rewind or ask for a repeat, i can just move my eyes up and re-read.

What you are saying is "stop posting things, and let me be the only voice here."

Now as I just said, the medium gives me the ability to read at my leisure. To peruse, to take my time, to think about it and formulate a reply. And sometimes it just happens that the subject matter being read... really isn't worth much.

Such is the case here, where we have yet another "Clinton supporter" posting yet another sniveling hand-wringing "I wish Bernie supporters would shut up and stop dishing it back!" whine, to be met with yet more demands from sanctimonious entitled putzes demanding "shut up and listen!"

This tactic has worn out its usefulness. if you want our attention, say something worthwhile.

[Sheepshank]

189. No, not once did I say you should stop posting and let me be the only voice

That is something you are telling yourself and believing. That is absolutely the problem. You want to be insulted, you want to be the injured party, you have already decided that everyone who is a Hillary supporter is sniveling. And you find ways to confirm it over and over, even if that means purposefully misconstruing a message.

I take it back, you are not right. I can't even pretend with you for the sake of ending the vitriol...because you just don't stop no matter what.

[Gman]

104. I've got a question

Why are Sanders supporters so white?

[Scootaloo]

150. My guess would be genetics

[wendylaroux]

182. say what?

WINNER!!!

[George II]

110. As usual, no sensible response or substance to a reasonable and well stated post, just childishness.

Proving the OP's point. Thanks!

[Scootaloo]

117. Why waste substance on shallow people?

[George II]

205. Race baiter? Where the fuck did THAT come from??????

[SwampG8r]

210. It comes from you

You race baited in the rally thread and here you are doing it again.
If that's not your intention maybe you should work on your communication skills.
And so you know I am a poc and I know what I'm seeing
If what I'm seeing is mistaken you might want to work on your presentation.

[George II]

213. Wrong, wrong, wrong....and finally wrong.

You see what you want to see, and it's totally off base. That's why you can't be specific. If you CAN be specific we can discuss it, otherwise, as they say, "I call BS".

Thanks.

[SwampG8r]

216. I don't care what you want

I know what you are.you showed.me

[ismnotwasm]

218. What is a "pic"??

Just out of the mildest curiosity

[SwampG8r]

222. Sorry on my phone

A poc is what it should say
I am native so my color is reddish brown

[Blue_Adept]

262. Jury results

On Mon Aug 3, 2015, 06:13 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

It comes from you
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=490677

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Accusing someone of race baiting is out of line and over the top.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Aug 3, 2015, 06:20 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Serious charges should not be casually made. Back it up or don't go there.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I didn't see anything which earned the accusation so would have to say 'hide it' at this point
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I do not see the race baiting in reviewing this thread, but I'm not a poc. I think the comment should just be responded
to as disagreeable, but not worth a hide.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The only people I've ever seen accuse anyone else of "race-baiting" have done it from the right. What is "race-baiting" anyway?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[1StrongBlackMan]

285. To Juror #5 ...

The DU definition of "Race-baiting" is any discussion of race or issues revolving around race that makes white liberals uncomfortable ... But it is not to be confused with "Race-nagging", which is exclusive to PoC.

[villager]

63. Hillary's fans have soured me, as well

Most of the "gutter-dwelling" seems to come from the other side, who constantly project, and post snarky attack posts. If these are the kinds of followers responding to something innate in a candidate, what does that say about her?

I didn't feel that way a couple weeks ago. Her DU followers are doing her no favors.

[haydukelives]

82. I agree

Seems to me the Hillary fans are throwing flames too.

[Duckhunter935]

188. very true

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. You made a lot of sense........until you said this:

If Bernie cannot control his fans...

He cannot do that. Hillary cannot do it either, with her fans. It's an unreasonable goal.

[murielm99]

15. We judge Trump and the other members

of the clown car by the way their supporters react to the statements made by their chosen candidates.

I am going to do the same thing to the Independent candidate from now on. I am through being abused.

[ybbor]

28. What statements has Bernie made that caused such reactions?

I cannot think of any off the top of my head that need defending.

[pnwmom]

34. Bernie hasn't made any such statements. The OP wasn't saying he did.

It's just a minority of his followers. A minority, maybe a small minority, but toxic enough to make the whole place stink.

[Phlem]

70. Right, just like some Hillary supporters.

[3Stones]

143. exactly how I feel Muriel99

I haven't posted much but I follow this site daily.

[George II]

292. But it's a VOCAL, beyond VOCAL, minority that are toxic.

Ooops, I used the word "minority" in a negative context...."alert"..."alert".

[LondonReign2]

383. Hello, kettle?

[mentalslavery]

48. So, what is this abuse you speak of

Like...are you being called names.... or what...Not likely from true bern fans. Remember-trolls are a real thing!

[Sheepshank]

327. the constant unending snark directed at a Hillary supporter - confirmed n/t

[zeemike]

96. OMG you are being abused!!!

Calling MIRT...Alert...help this poor Hillary supporter and stop the terrible abuse...
Oh the humanity...Oh the drama...I think I am going to cry.

[Change has come]

244. But....

She would have been inevitable!!

[Sheepshank]

328. Confirmation of the constant, snark and abuse lobbed at Hillary supporters n/t

[zeemike]

340. Yes we know, they are always the victim.

The abuse they suffer must be terrible...there should be a law or declare them a protected group in the TOS of DU to stop the suffering and pain.

I know, this is more snark that is painful for you to hear, but I just have no sensitivity to your plight as a HRC supporter.

[Sheepshank]

343. swarming and nasty vitriol

congratulations. you've lived up to every expectation.

I wonder how many fence sitters will decide to flop over to Bernie's camp now?

Or do you think it's not in Bernie's best interest to win over more voters?

Congrats on that aspect too. Seems like your're just batting a 1000

have a good day, I've spent enough time on you nastiness for one day.

[Ed Suspicious]

100. Independant candidate? I swear he was seeking the

the nomination of the Democratic party.

[murielm99]

103. He is an independent.

He has refused to join the Democratic Party, but he is using Democratic resources.

I am so sick of his supporters and his inability to reign them in that I will no longer refer to him by name. From now on, if I post about him, I will call him the Independent.

[Ed Suspicious]

111. I'm equally sick if the H-bombs lobbed our way. This street goes

two ways and I swear it seem like you guys are crossing the center line.

[Change has come]

245. I guess that settles it then!

Will you also shut down the Bernie Sanders group on Independent Underground?

[eridani]

256. He merely supports the Democratic Party platform more than quite a few--

--who call themselves Democrats.

[snagglepuss]

268. /\/\/\THIS/\/\/\ should be an OP. By their fruit ye shall know them.

[L0oniX]

271. Now a days that is called ...being independant.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

377. Don't care about the "I". Look at all the unaffiliated voters in NC up for grabs.

http://www.ncsbe.gov/webapps/voter_stats/results.aspx?date=08-01-2015

Is your crack political strategy to ignore a candidate -- SANDERS -- who would appeal to Dems and Indies, all because of some supposed meanies on a message board? Jesus.

[murielm99]

395. He is going to use our resources and then

treat us with disdain? The "meanies on a message board" reflect his behavior. And it is poor behavior, on his part, and on the part of his supporters.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

402. Bernie Sanders does not treat you, or anyone, with disdain.

Careful, now, you overplayed your hand big-time with that one.

I'm happy to see the majority of DU reject this victim shtick. The question is... will people who live on 140-character tweets and manipulative Crap Blogs do the same?

Use my resources, Bernie! Time and money...

[dionysus]

348. it's the nw attack du jour: despite caucusing with Dems since forever, and holding more traditional

Dem ideals than the corporate DLCer he is running against... he's not a "real dem"

it's priceless because the poor victims crying about sanders supporters must be getting worried: despite the fact that her massive $$$ and name recognition advantage assures her of winning the primary.. unless, that is, she blows it again..

[skepticscott]

166. No, we don't

We judge them by what THEY say, personally. We judge them by the bat-shit crazy policies that THEY advocate.

[cui bono]

172. What Independent candidate?

Surely you are not saying that as a slur against Sanders, not after such a self-righteous rant...

[murielm99]

249. I made no slurs.

I stated a fact.

It is a fact that he is an Independent.

[cui bono]

252. No, he is running as a Democrat. If you don't mean it as a slur you should edit it out

because it's not true.

[murielm99]

258. Maybe you should find a dictionary. n/t

[kath]

66. And then (and slightly before that) she also said this:

"I don't think he is a good guy if he attracts such a gutter-dwelling following. If Bernie cannot control his fans, then he has no leadership ability. Bernie is divisive. He is a polarizing figure. He is not even a Democrat, and I do not like the idea that he is being shoved down our throats on a Democratic website."

Wow. just wow. This sounds like something right out of Faux News, or from the mouth of a teabagger.

think a minute - just who exactly is being shoved down the throats of Democrats?? Hmmm? Her Inevitableness perhaps?

Unreal.

In terms of Sanders, he represents traditional Democratic values one hell of a lot more than a founder of the DLC ever could. And on the vast majority of Sanders's major issues, 70% of Americans agree with him. http://www.salon.com/2015/07/11/america_is_ready_for_socialism_massive_majorities_back_bernie_sanders_on_the_issues_and_disdain_donald_trump/

Excerpt:

In fact, on a wide range of issue specifics Sanders lines up with strong majorities of public opinion—and has for decades.

You can get a strong sense of this from the results of the “Big Ideas” poll commissioned by the Progressive Change Institute in January, which has thus far gotten far less attention than it deserves. (Full disclosure: I’m a former blogmate with Adam Green, co-founder of PCI’s affiliate, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee.) PCI first solicited ideas online through an open submission process (more than 2,600 specific proposals were submitted) and then let people vote on them (more than a million votes were cast). This bottom-up process was then tested out in a national poll. The following all received 70% support or more:

Allow Government to Negotiate Drug Prices (79%)
Give Students the Same Low Interest Rates as Big Banks (78%)
Universal Pre-Kindergarten (77%)
Fair Trade that Protect Workers, the Environment, and Jobs (75%)
End Tax Loopholes for Corporations that Ship Jobs Overseas (74%)
End Gerrymandering (73%)
Let Homeowners Pay Down Mortgage With 401k (72%)
Debt-Free College at All Public Universities (Message A) (71%)
Infrastructure Jobs Program — $400 Billion / Year (71%)
Require NSA to Get Warrants (71%)
Disclose Corporate Spending on Politics/Lobbying (71%)
Medicare Buy-In for All (71%)
Close Offshore Corporate Tax Loopholes (70%)
Green New Deal — Millions Of Clean-Energy Jobs (70%)
Full Employment Act (70%)
Expand Social Security Benefits (70%)

All of the above are in line with Bernie Sanders’ politics and all are extremely popular, with support across the political spectrum. For example, the infrastructure jobs program (a key element of Sanders’ platform) had 91% support from Democrats, 61% from independents and even 55% support from Republicans—compared to only 28% who were opposed.

[Phlem]

71. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[MissDeeds]

76. +1zillion

[Beartracks]

93. "I won't vote for the guy that represents me best, because his FANS aren't nice!!"

It's just incredible over-generalizing, and illogical.

As an excuse not to vote for someone, that ranks right up there with: "I won't vote for the guy that represents me best, because he can't win!!!1!1!" That's why he's friggin' asking for your vote: so he CAN win.

=======================

[murielm99]

106. That is not what I said and you know it.

[Scootaloo]

122. No, it's smarter than what you've said.

[artislife]

403. I have come to love you....nt

[840high]

145. ...^ that

[Scuba]

259. + another

[L0oniX]

281. + more

[red dog 1]

341. I agree 100 percent.

Excellent reply!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

356. Excellent post; cant be said enough.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

369. "I don't think he is a good guy if he attracts such a gutter-dwelling following."

Using that logic, Obama's not a good guy, either, because there have been some *seriously* gutter-dwelling OPs on this site attacking those who oppose his policies.

I guarantee if I walked up to anyone on the street and asked them if their vote was influenced by the nice/mean factor of anonymous posters on a message board, they'd look at me like I were a fucking idiot.

[tex-wyo-dem]

95. I agree...the OP lost me there also...

As far as leadership, Bernie has said publically numerous times that he will not engage in negative campaigning against Hillary, but he will certainly discuss differences between his positions and Clinton's. Many of his supports will follow his lead and do the same, others will not; that's just reality of political campaigns involving thousands of people.

I will say, however, that the frustration and anger among many Bernie supporters regarding the establishment and status quo that is controlled by an oligarchy is substantial...for good reason. That anger is often, rightly or wrongly, directed Hillary's way in that she is viewed as part of the problem.

[MADem]

146. He's trying--he made statements this morning on one of the morning talk shows

at the end of the program where he said he's not fighting HRC, she's his friend for 25 years, he's not going to attack her, etc.

His fans need to actually LISTEN to him and emulate his behavior and repeat his words. They don't do that--a lot of them like to call people names here, and it sucks. The worst ones are total strangers to me, but even a few familiar names have gotten on the Personal Invective Bus.

[uponit7771]

3. +1, the notion that Sanders can throw stones isn't supported by the facts. I think we have 4 damn...

...good candidates and there's no need to denigrate any of them.

[arcane1]

4. "If Bernie cannot control his fans"?

Well, he hasn't PMed me and asked me to tone it down, so I guess I'm one of the well-behaved ones.

[whatchamacallit]

5. Holy shit!

Bananas...

[Le Taz Hot]

7. There's a reason for that.

It's because Hillary supporters are Yellow Dog Democrats. That and Wall Street are her only base. These people would vote for Jeb fucking Bush if he slapped a D next to his name. Bernie supporters come from all walks of life and all political spectrum. As such, they are far less likely to vote for someone just because there is a "D" next to their name. Don't expect all Bernie supporters, who have a tendency to be independent thinkers, to blindly swear fealty to a party that no longer represents them and hasn't for a good 30 years. Will some of them vote for the corporate shill if she gets the nomination? Yes, some will. That is why, if the corporatocracy manages to buy the nomination for her, she'll lose in the General. Her support is a mile wide and an inch deep.

Poor, abused Hillary supporters. If you don't want shit thrown at you, don't throw it out in the first place.

[uponit7771]

9. ... or Hillary supporters are hearing no better platitudes from Bernie than comes from her?

Knowing there's a gerrymandered republican congress all we're going to get from either candidate is "... we should..." followed by no specifics...

The devil I do know is better than the one I don't know

Again, none of these candidates can throw stones...

[JaneyVee]

10. "Yellow Dog Democrats. That and Wall Street are her only base."

Yeah, never mind the 86% of African Americans, 75% of hispanics, and nearly every other Dem base demographic. Sanders got the white upper middle class liberal demographic on lock.

[passiveporcupine]

33. I admit I'm a white liberal

but don't accuse me of being upper middle class. I'm barely above poverty.

Bernie is attracting a lot of people in a lot of categories. And it's too early in the race to be calling the winner...by a long shot.

[JaneyVee]

89. See post 87.

[GoneFishin]

68. You really are out of touch if you think we are all white upper middle class. Maybe hard for you

to process, but many liberals' understanding of empathy, and their contempt for selfish greedy people, comes from having been stomped on or shamed during some point in their life, a situation which often goes hand-in-hand with growing up dirt poor.

Get in touch.

[JaneyVee]

87. Let me clarify:

According to the polls, Hillary is winning every demographic, like I said above. My post was in response to another post saying Hillary's only base is Wall Street, which according to polling, is patently FALSE.

[Phlem]

74. !!!

Epic Fail.

I haven't had a steady job since Nafta and we now live paycheck to pay check.

[JaneyVee]

88. See post 87.

[Scootaloo]

90. Post #10 tells us way more, though

[Phlem]

109. you lost me at post #10

[oasis]

162. Kick for 87 because FACTS are DU's most impotant asset.

:kick:

[Change has come]

246. If only the election was yesterday.

I'm looking forward to the debates. Any idea when the first one will be? I tend to get my "facts" from the candidates themselves.

[oasis]

247. The GOP candidates debate Thursday.

You'll see many angry posts on DU about no dates being set, as yet, by the DNC Chair.

[Change has come]

250. I'm looking forward to those debates!

I think that will help take the edge off here at DU for a little while.

[oasis]

251. I'm hoping O'Malley does really well. The stronger he gets

the more positive posts will become.

[BainsBane]

408. Janey, come on. The only voters who count are "progressives."

As defined by reflections in the mirror in certain folks' houses.

[Alfalfa]

13. +1

[DanTex]

14. Bernie supporters tend to be "independent thinkers". LOL.

[murielm99]

17. Supporters here and on other websites

are swearing blind fealty to the Independent candidate.

I threw no shit. It was thrown at me. Now I am throwing it back.

[passiveporcupine]

97. I'm sorry you were treated unkindly

but it's happening on both sides. I have thrown no shit but I've recieved it, and I'm also accused of being a Bernie supporter, which means if Hillary wins the primary, I will refuse to vote for her, and I say that's wrong. I've said here many times I will vote for whomever wins the primary.

Too many rocks being thrown at too many glass houses on both sides. Too many generalities be tossed around as absolutes.

What I really hate to see though is people threatening to not vote at all if one or the other candidate wins, because of how their supporters are acting. What if all Bernie supporters refused to vote in the general because of how some Hillary supporters are acting?

Is Bernie acting this way? NOPE

Is Hillary acting like some of her supporters? NOPE

Threats of not voting are like blackmail.

[dionysus]

354. you won't get any vote for hillary doing that, just poisoning the well out of spite...

[pnwmom]

36. That's false. Hillary has strong support across the spectrum of Democrats, with her highest numbers

among the most liberal.

With DU being the notable exception, of course.

[1StrongBlackMan]

290. And, per (fairly) recent polling ...

Bernie's strongest support came from folks that self-describe as "conservative" or "very conservative."

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=13531

[pnwmom]

300. Thanks. Those ARE interesting numbers. But not all that surprising,

maybe, given his connection with the 2nd Amendment people.

[1StrongBlackMan]

301. If I were running for office, on a racial justice platform ...

and a poll indicated that my strongest support came from self-identified klansmen ... I think I'd pause to figure out what the hell was happening!

[LondonReign2]

385. If I were running for office on an economic justice platform...

and my biggest contributors were Blankfein and Dimon...I think I'd be a disingenuous panderer.

Now, the only difference between my post and yours is that all the banksters DO support Clinton while claiming KKK members support Sanders is a pathetic smear and a lie.

PR expert my ass.

[1StrongBlackMan]

387. Are the folks that self-identified in that poll as "conservative" and/or "very conservative" a

compared to those that self-identified as liberal or very liberal a pathetic smear and a lie?

[LondonReign2]

391. No, claiming as you did that Sanders strongest support comes from self-identified klansmen

is a pathetic smear and a lie. But you didn't need me to tell you that, you knew it was a smear and a lie when you posted it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

392. Reading really IS fundamental ...

I never said Bernie's supporters were/are klansmen.

(Riffing on your previous attack) ... high school graduate/GED holder my ass.

[LondonReign2]

393. Maybe typing is fundmental?

YOUR DIRECT QUOTE--->If I were running for office, on a racial justice platform ...and a poll indicated that my strongest support came from self-identified klansmen ... I think I'd pause to figure out what the hell was happening

Emphasis mine.

So you aren't saying his supporters were/are klansmen, just that "a poll indicates his strongest support is from self-identified klansmen." (which it doesn't) and he needs to pause to figure out what the hell is happening.


Pathetic smear and lie doesn't really begin to cover it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

394. Re-read what I wrote ... Slowly ... Perhaps have an 8th grader read it then explain it to you ...

How do you get Bernie's supporters are klansmen from:

Quoting YOUR direct quote of my QUOTE--->If I were running for office, on a racial justice platform ...and a poll indicated that my strongest support came from self-identified klansmen ...

[LondonReign2]

396. Jesus H Christ, what bullshit, right down to your childish attempt to make believe

its about reading comprehension rather than your odious lie.

Trying to make believe it is about you rather than a poll showing Bernie gaining support amongst conservatives it transparent bullshit even a Fox news viewer wouldn't fall for.

It's a pathetic smear and lie once again trying to tar Bernie as a racist by claiming his "strongest support is from self-identified klansmen". You should be fucking embarrassed but people willing to tell a lie like that never are, they've left all integrity far behind.

[1StrongBlackMan]

398. LOL ... You still can't read ... you can swear like a sailor; but, still can't read ...

PM one of your more literate buddies ... maybe they can, quietly, point out what you are missing.

Have a good evening.

[LondonReign2]

405. You poor thing

You are caught trolling out a smear and the best defense you can muster is the charade that your words don't mean what you wrote.

You saw a poll showing Bernie gaining momentum with conservatives and you took the opportunity to imply that his "strongest support came from self-identified klansman". Now all you can do is try, and fail miserably, to bluff your way through.

That's Ok, I've come to expect this level of dishonesty from far too many Clinton supporters here.

[1StrongBlackMan]

407. Wow the projection is strong in you ...

only to be matched with an inability to read and/or the inability to admit when you are just plain wrong.

Did you perchance run this sub-thread by anyone else?

Here: I'll post what I wrote ... maybe someone else can weigh in (and PM you to gently break it to you).

1StrongBlackMan (22,049 posts)

301. If I were running for office, on a racial justice platform ... and a poll indicated that my strongest support came from self-identified klansmen ... I think I'd pause to figure out what the hell was happening!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=491482

And, BTW ... I'm NOT a HRC supporter ... I am leaning towards O'Malley. He, in my estimation, has presented detailed plans to address the issues that concern me most ... as opposed to the lofty, though non-specific language, I'm hearing from the other candidates.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

411. How do you infer from this quote

How do you infer from this quote:

" If I were running for office, on a racial justice platform ... and a poll indicated that my strongest support came from self-identified klansmen ... I think I'd pause to figure out what the hell was happening! "

that your interlocutor is accusing Senator Sanders of being supported by Klansmen?


I do think it's odd that supporters of a candidate who very recently joined the Democratic party get to define who is and isn't a Democrat and the object of their scorn is a woman who has been a Democrat since she could vote, served as a First Lady to a Democratic governor and president, served two terms in the Senate as a Democrat, and served as a Secretary Of State to a Democratic president.



Much is being made out of a small subsample from one poll...That being said, when you look at the data in toto, Senator Sanders supporters are more wealthier, more educated, and much , much... much more homogeneous than the party at large. Although Secretary Clinton leads in all categories Senator Sanders does better as education and income rises.




This leads to two conclusions...It reminds me of the marcher who is going in the wrong directions thinks everybody else is going in the wrong direction and Democratic primary voters will decide who is and isn't a Democrat

[BainsBane]

410. It is clear, according to the cited PPP poll, that his strongest support

is among those who identify as "very conservative." You seem upset by the implication that "very conservatives" might be Klansmen or similarly oriented.

[BainsBane]

409. You mean they maxed out at the 2700 for Clinton?

Along with how many other people? Do you have the FEC filings to back that up?

[MissDeeds]

37. Thank you, Le Taz Hot

Very well said and all true. Sooo tired of these "concern" posts.

As the OP said:" I don't care if you have thousands of posts or if you are a brand new troll. I will continue to defend my candidate without disclaimer. I will not be abused, Mommie Dearest."

And we will continue to defend our candidate.

[A Simple Game]

49. It has become apparent from reading the posts down to this point that we are dealing with

classic liberal bashing. We have even been compared to clown car supporters and especially Trump supporters.

And still just like Hillary we have no specifics to critique.

Are we at stage three yet? Then they fight you.

[mentalslavery]

57. Thats a little much

I mean....have you ever talked to a hill fan in real life....cuz they typically appear to be decent and liberal people to me.....not as progressive as i would like on some economic issues-see guaranteed income.....but overall liberal and decent folks.

[Le Taz Hot]

149. Allow me to introduce myself.

I'm Le Taz Hot. I'm a loud-mouthed opinioned old broad and this is the primaries. Pleased to meet ya.

[msrizzo]

163. If that is true....

...then what do you make of the fact that Hillary is by far the choice of people who call themselves Democrats when polled? I don't understand what gives you the write to kick people out of a party they choose to belong to. Maybe you don't agree with them, and that is your right but you seem to want to make them disappear off the face of the earth. There are a lot of Hillary Clinton supporters and if you got your wish and kicked them all out of the Democrat party, then the Democratic party would be gutted. I know you might say that her support is shallow but until she is actually behind in the polls then that is just your opinion.

[Le Taz Hot]

170. Read my post again.

Her base is Yellow Dog Democrats so, of course they're going to vote for whomever they are ordered to vote for. Bernie is drawing from people from a wide political spectrum and most of the country hasn't even heard of him yet.

No idea where you think I said I have the "write" to kick people out of your party. I don't care about your party. It sold out 30 years ago with another Clinton who wanted to be president so bad he sold out half the country.

[msrizzo]

204. Once was enough, thank you.

You make me kind of sad.

[Change has come]

248. This isn't facebook.

You're current emotional state isn't persuasive.

[Scootaloo]

178. I dunno. Why was "Duck Hunters" so popular?

[L0oniX]

280. LMAO ...nailed.

[Alittleliberal]

185. As always

A small percentage of people are actually paying attention. An even smaller amount of people pay attention often enough to actually know what's going on.

[dionysus]

349. name recognition, decades of being in the public eye.tons of campaign cash. outside of political

junkies, most people don't even know who Bernie even is...

Hillary is a dem, but no liberal when it comes to economics or war... i'll gladly vote for her when she is the nominee, even though there's a lot about her political decisions I don't like. she's a triangulator like Bill.

but she's miles ahead of the Neanderthal republicans, so she's got my vote.

bernie is more like an old school democrat than Hillary will ever be, despite being officially a Democratic Socialist, so this calling him an "independent" as a slur is nonsense.

[mythology]

193. So you're going to claim that roughly 55 to 60 percent of Democrats are either

Yellow dog Democrats or Wall Street? And that's a winning argument how?

In addition you are saying that 70 or more percent of black and Hispanic voters are as well.

I really don't see this claim working out for you.

[postatomic]

194. Excellent presentation to support the comments of the OP

Independent thinkers??!!?? Wow. Let me jot that down. I had no idea.

[L0oniX]

273. ^^^this^^^

[JaneyVee]

8. Every "corporate" Democrat under the bus!

Until we end up with President Bernie Sanders, 75 Republican senate seats, and 400 Repub House seats. Because that sure sounds like "progress".

[ieoeja]

283. We held the House for all but 2 of the 60 years before the DLC takeover.

We held a majority of state legislators and governorships for most of that 60 years as well. Within 2 years of the DLC takeover, Democrats lost the House. And in the 30 years since those numbers have increasingly gotten worse.

If you're worried about 75 Republican senate seats and 400 Repub House seats, maybe you should look at the people who have a 30 year track record of losing, and not at the people who want to try something different.

[kath]

288. Thank you for this! it is way past time to get the infiltrators out of our Party.

[Ed Suspicious]

351. You need to keep on preaching this. [phone]

[Alfalfa]

11. If the Hillary-worshippers toned down their vitriol a little

This wouldn't even be an issue on DU.

[murielm99]

21. See post 17,

Johnny-Come-Lately.

[Alfalfa]

23. I've seen it

And it was the Hillary-worshippers who started "throwing shit" first, as you put it. You can't blame people for reacting to that negatively.

[OilemFirchen]

31. No you haven't.

Obama-bashers became Warrenistas and morphed into Berniacs. The genesis of that evolution began over seven years ago.

Congratulations on your second-day anniversary!

[Alfalfa]

35. The Obama-bashers were disgruntled Hillary-supporters

Who were and are still bitter about the fact that she missed out in 2008. I better not call them "worshipers" since I already got alerted on. I thought I was actually being pretty civil considering the flamebait OP.

[OilemFirchen]

52. No they weren't.

They happily proclaimed that they voted for Obama but quickly became disenchanted. That's their story, and I have no reason to doubt them.

What else do you want to share about DU posters' histories?

I'm all ears.

[freshwest]

224. Sid would know. Or say he does. Just sayin' n/t

[OilemFirchen]

230. Sid knows nothing.

It's not like he owns this place.

Just sayin'.

[freshwest]

237. I heard he was Skinner's sock! n/t

[Ed Suspicious]

353. That's my story. Perfectly told.

[Number23]

44. ++ To a 1, every single "Obama is a sellout, fascist corpo-Dem who called hisself a moderate

Republican" poster here is trashing Hillary. Every last one of them.

Your evolution -- Obama basher to Warren "supporter" to Sanders "supporter" -- is absolutely spot on. And I guess they think that no one has noticed either.

[A Simple Game]

54. You should say a prayer every time you invoke Warren's name.

If she had run instead of Bernie, Hillary would be down by at least 20 more points than she is now.

[Number23]

62. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts....

But thanks for caring about what I should care about.

[freshwest]

226. Yes, I noticed that, too! But...

Number 23!

[freshwest]

227. Yes, my teacher. I noticed! But...

[Hekate]

102. +1 OilemFirchen

[frylock]

338. This underscores how full of crap the OP truly is..

the party establishment has been shitting on progressives for years, then they get all wadded when people respond in kind. Reap the fucking whirlwind.

[dionysus]

350. i am an Obama supporter to this day. he wasn't as liberal as i hoped. i prefer bernie, but have no

problem voting for Hillary in the general despite any misgivings I have about her positions...

[Moonwalk]

41. So...two wrongs make a right? Bernie supporters avow him more ethical and of a higher caliber....

...than Hilary. But they don't seem to hold themselves to his same standards, as I've yet to see Sanders put down Hilary.

As for Hilary supporters starting it...all I see day in and day out on the DU home page is "Bernie Sanders..." followed by some put down of Hilary (for some reason, it can't just be how good Bernie is, it has to include how awful Hillary is). All the Hilary posts i've seen on the DU home page or far (and they've been very view compared to Sanders) have just indicated what Hilary said or did, no put down of Bernie at all. No where. Not even a "Sanders supporters are scared!" or "I'd cut off my hands before voting for Sanders..."

Which is to say, not "starting it" doesn't exonerate you—not unless you believe in "stand your ground" laws and that if someone is doing something that makes you at all fearful you can shoot them. From what I can see—and again, I take all my evidence from the DU home page--Sanders followers have escalated their pointless abuse of Hilary beyond what is reasonable, rational or even useful if we (yes, WE, not you, not me) want to win the presidency.

And yes, it is pointless. If Bernie is the best for the job and can win the votes, as all supporters here keep insisting, he'll win in the debates handily. No need to undermine Hilary to achieve that. So why the constant pot-shots at Hilary? Unless Bernie supporters are the ones who are scared?

[calimary]

91. +1

[Hekate]

99. Thank you, Moonwalk

[gollygee]

165. You've only been here two days.

How do you know who started it?

[murielm99]

297. Don't accuse us of name-calling if you

are going to use the term "Hillary-Worshipers."

[Bryce Butler]

30. Jury Results

On Sun Aug 2, 2015, 04:50 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

If the Hillary-worshippers toned down their vitriol a little
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=489822

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Hillary worshippers? This kind of language is disruptive and doesn't help!

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 2, 2015, 05:01 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yes, disruptive language, please try to keep things clean. Meanwhile, the OP and about six other reply's are also full of blanket statements and name-calling. Not the greatest thread I've seen today.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[L0oniX]

274. Yeah they always alert on that "worshipper" stuff. Must be hitting a nail on the head.

[Bobbie Jo]

286. Nah

It's just a stupid remark, coming from the same folks who have been tossing crap at
Obama for the last 7 years.

Under the circumstances, that remark is exceedingly ironic based on the behavior of certain other supporters around here.

Not that it matters one whit, but I didn't alert on that one. Apparently it's all the rage to throw out the "they" reference.

[L0oniX]

287. Ah ...the fly paper worked.

[Bobbie Jo]

289. Ok

Well aren't you the clever fella.

Or something....

Weird stuff...

[pnwmom]

69. As a fence-sitter, I see more of it coming from the Bernie supporters -- but not from O'Malley's.

And when I do defend Hillary from grossly unfair attacks (often from right wing sources), I'm accused of being in the Hillary camp. No, but some people seem to be trying to drive me in that direction.

[calimary]

92. +1.

It could simply be that accusing you of being a Hillary supporter is someone's idea of an insult.

[Hekate]

105. ....But have you been called a "Hillary worshipper" yet?

You just haven't lived until that happens.

[pnwmom]

132. I probably have, but I've been called the equivalent, anyway. And it's very annoying and off-putting

and doesn't increase my interest in Bernie.

[freshwest]

228. Well, Obama supporters have heard it all. SSDD. Same sources. We know the routine. Ugh.

[Hekate]

229. Yes we do.

Love your gif

[freshwest]

238. And I love you! n/t

[ibegurpard]

261. you are not a "fence-sitter"

And if you actually believe that I suggest you check your post history.

[pnwmom]

303. Hillary is the subject of a disproportionate number of very personal,

and untruthful attacks, and I have responded to some. I think it's important because I still think she'll be the eventual nominee. She has a much stronger campaign organization, a lot more money, and she seems to have learned from her first run.

I would post more in the Bernie group but I asked two questions there and got blocked. So did 1StrongBlackMan and many others on the fence, so I'm in good company.

But go ahead and keep thinking you can read my mind better than I can.

[Le Taz Hot]

265. I'm sorry, did you just say you are a fence-sitter?

With a straight face?

[L0oniX]

277. I couldn't hold a straight face on that one.

[L0oniX]

276. "fence-sitter" WTF LMFAO

[Spazito]

322. Goodbye troll...

You got 160 more posts than you should have. Skinner has banned you, wtg Skinner!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=325015&sub=trans

[Armstead]

12. I don't think either (any) candidate has a monopoly on "harshness"

Sure some of us Sanders supporters can flare up sometimes and write asshole things.

So, I have to admit, can I.

But it's often in response to the tone set by supporters of Hillary.


It's generally a two way street.

People who support H are no angels either. Y'all throw your own share of feces out there. And you get a similar reaction when you do.

And, this having something to do with issues and all that stuff, people can get critical. How else do you explain your opposition to something?

[OilemFirchen]

18. Not exactly.

It's a one-way street with a bike lane.

[SusanaMontana41]

27. I strongly support one of the candidates. Sniping isn't helpful. That's why I don't. n/t

[murielm99]

113. Great response.

Thank you.

[Agnosticsherbet]

19. Al Franken, another important liberal, endorsed Hillary Clinton

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. So have several members of the Congressional Black Caucus & the Progressive Caucus.

eom

[Hekate]

124. Jesus, now we are into dismissing progressive heroes & civil rights heroes? Because why?

Because they endorse HRC?

I am soooo persuaded by the reason and logic of your argument.

[BainsBane]

25. Over time, I have come to share your view.

It is indeed disconcerting. This may explain some of it.

Hillary 57% overall support
64% identifying at very liberal
58% identifying as liberal
59% identifying as moderate
37% identifying as somewhat conservative
27% identifying as very conservative

Sanders 22% overall support
26% identifying at very liberal
19% identifying as liberal
16% identifying as moderate
31% identifying as somewhat conservative
42% identifying as very conservative

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_National_72215.pdf

[Cleita]

43. Your polling source seems to be very proud of the Wall Street Journal

endorsement they have received. Now my information tells me that Rupert Murdoch (Mr. Fox News) runs the Wall Street journal, a man very prone to yellow journalism and out and out disinformation. So I don't find your poll something I would take seriously.

[7962]

130. So 42% of Bernie (the Socialist) supporters are "very conservative"? HA!

Useless poll

[BainsBane]

138. Useless because you don't like what it says

Yeah, I know. It's only PPP, the most accurate polling outfit, but naturally that couldn't compare to what you want to believe.

Evidently you've forgotten that the Tea Party began in opposition to the Wall Street bailout.

[7962]

142. Dont see a lot of Very conservative folk supporting single payer, higher taxes,

expanded social security, more business regulation, climate change action, etc. the list is long.

[Still In Wisconsin]

174. The implied point is that the cons are supporting Bernie because they think he can't win...

which IMO is bullshit.

[7962]

176. ahhhhh....i see

[Luminous Animal]

209. Actually. And as I have pointed out to BainsBane before, many people who self-identify

as conservative actual hold liberal views when asked specially about traditional liberal stances. According to polls, only about 15% of the population hold hard core conservative views. And this, 85% of those who identify as conservative, actualy support expanding social security, more business regulation, action on climate change, expanding medicare, stronger unions…

Poll after poll for many have shown that those who self-identify as conservative also believe that action should be taken on all of the above.

Bainsbane knows this but keeps posting those stats as if they are meaningful.

They are not.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/03/06/why-most-conservatives-are-secretly-liberals/

[freshwest]

236. Operation Chaos 2016 is the GOP's official scheme. It's used to divide Democrats to help the GOP:

Republicans Should Help Bernie Sanders to Weaken Hillary

by Myra Adams June 25, 2015 4:00 AM

...This is a call to action for every Republican anxious to win back the White House in 2016.
Bernie Sanders, the socialist U.S. senator from Vermont, is now surging in his quest to win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination. He is attracting media attention and large crowds, and is invigorated by a New Hampshire–primary poll showing him only 10 points behind frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

After a GOP power player sent me a piece from left-leaning Salon headlined “Hillary Clinton is going to lose: She doesn’t even see the frustrated progressive wave that will nominate Bernie Sanders,” my heart went pitter-patter, beginning to sense an opportunity.

But it was not until I saw a headline in The Hill warning that the “Sanders surge is becoming a bigger problem for Clinton,” accompanied by “It may be time for Hillary Clinton to take the challenge from Sen. Bernie Sanders more seriously,” that I was truly motivated to join Team Bernie and rally my fellow Republicans to do the same.

So I sent Bernie a donation and visited his campaign store, where my favorite bumper sticker was Vote for Bernie... you know you wanna!

Now, I don’t really wanna, and neither do you. However, supporting Bernie in the early stages of his campaign is a noble cause that makes a great deal of political sense and emboldens me to announce Operation Chaos 2016...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420262/bernie-sanders-republicans-myra-adams

In the article, she remarks on the former efforts to do the same thing every two years since 2008. Bernie does not want a rightwing GOP in the White House.

BSers must purge aggressive 'supporters' for the good of the nation. They may vote for him now, but will not in the general. I believe they are here to set us against each other. We should not fall for it. I don't care who wins the primary because I'm going to vote for the winner. I have always loved Bernie, don't want his ideals dismissed if he faulters or fails.

When we were training and organizing mobilizations against the Vietnam War, we had to be alert for those who trying to discredit our ideals and our cause. Usually these were the ones who were aggressive and spoiling for a fight. We called them agent provocateurs, and that is what they were.

This is what I see online with the language being used against a Democrat. Easy to attack all of the Democrats if one isn't one. They don't believe what they are saying, just grab whatever media meme is available and are unable to give replies that aren't abusive in nature, because they don't respect us or our causes.

The quality of supporters does affect voting patterns. I was never interested in Hillary back in 2007 and 2008, even though I knew she was the victim of rightwing propaganda for years. When the PUMAs began their routine, it left a bitter taste and distrust I had a hard time overcoming. This is how I now feel about BS. It is not his fault. We're being RF'd from many sides. This election is a crucial one. The Koch brothers say they must win it and are going all out to do so. We are in a dangerous place right now. This is who Bernie is really trying to stop from taking over completely.

I don't like baggers or people who act like them. I can't believe some of this type would not be in positions of power. I don't wish to be under anyone's thumb. I've had enough of that to last a lifetime.

[Android3.14]

26. Projection

Thy name is murielm99.

[NorthCarolina]

29. Oh brother...

[Cleita]

32. I keep reading that Bernie supporters are very mean to the Hillary supporters.

Yet I haven't seen those posts from Bernie supporters. I have seen some mean posts about Hillary, but none of them done by the Bernie supporters I know. Now putting up facts about Hillary is not Hillary bashing IMHO. It's true she's friends with Henry Kissinger, which is a deal breaker with me. It's not a bash or a slur but a simple fact. The fact that right wing sources are being used to prove a point would raise a flag with me that they might not in fact be real Bernie supporters.

[Moonwalk]

58. Have you seen the DU homepage? What are you talking about...?

Last edited Sun Aug 2, 2015, 07:04 PM - Edit history (2)

Every other post supporting Sanders and putting down Hilary has been posted by or written by a Sanders supporter—and they're often "bashing" as compared to "facts" because in many cases the facts are wrong. Even when the facts are right, the Bernie posts tend to say, "Bernie did this and down with Hilary!" Facts or not, that indicates the tone from Bernie supporters. It can't be simply "Hooray Bernie." It has to be "Hooray Bernie, boo Hilary!"

I honestly haven't decided who I'll vote for yet. I'm waiting to see who actually ends up in the primaries. But I'm telling you how the pro-bernie posts have struck me. I don' know if Hilary will get my vote, but the DU home page posts from his supporters need to be more "hooray Bernie" without the "boo Hilary" or I'll be turning away from him because I can't stomach that sort of thing again. I hated it when it happened with Obama/Hilary. I won't stomach it again.

Throw poo at GOP candidates all you like. But democratic supporters need to show civility towards the opposing side's supporters and candidate, or their candidate gets crossed off my list

[Cleita]

61. I went to the home page and found one post about Clinton's emails posted by a DUer whom

hasn't declared one way or the other and who used a right wing source. How does that make him/her a Bernie supporter. There were a couple about Bernie though.

[Bobbie Jo]

266. Nah

They're pretty crappy to everyone who isn't 110% on board.

If you doubt this, take a look at the BLM discussion in the Sanders group, or any one of the links provided in this thread.

[jalan48]

38. Many of us Sanders supporters see the political process as corrupt.

It has been polluted by the millions of dollars of bribe money from wealthy donors and corporations, made possible by the Citizens United ruling. So yes, it is different this time and although I support Sanders because he talks about this major problem I would love to see Hillary and her 'fans' talk about it as well. It's a big problem for all Americans, especially those of us without the money to buy influence.

[artislife]

40. Don't vote for him. Even if he is the nominee.

Don't.

[Scootaloo]

45. They won't n/t

[artislife]

51. We aren't asking them to pledge.

If there are those posts, it is just a joke.


No one is seriously asking them to. They can if they want or they can choose differently. They have a right to their vote.

[Hekate]

114. Scootaloo, you know that is bull. >smh<

[Scootaloo]

121. No, I don't. Everything I see from you guys SCREAMS otherwise

[Hekate]

126. I'm so sorry for your eyesight problem, then.

[Scootaloo]

173. In 2008, I saw pure unbridled rage towards a black man running for the democratic nomination

In 2015, i'm seeing more of the same rage, the same raw hatred, being thrown towards a Jewish guy running for the democratic nomination. Only this time, it's earlier, more desperate, and he's further behind than Obama was.

In 2008, that rage formed the PUMA movement, spawned birtherism, and led to 10% of registered Democrats voting for John McCain.

So you tell me why the living fuck I would beleive people who spend all their time - ALL THEIR TIME snarling and shitting on a candidate they insist will never win, falling over themselves to demand silence from his supporters, making threats and constant harassment and abuse... are going to pull the lever for him if he's the nominee?

[L0oniX]

278. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ no really ^^^THIS^^^

[artislife]

284. +!

[LondonReign2]

386. ^Yup^

[taught_me_patience]

318. Post links showing Hillary supporters refusing to vote for Bernie

if he wins the primary...

...otherwise, you're just making stuff up.

[Scootaloo]

329. I think you mistake me, T_M_P

I know there are plenty of Clinton supporters who say they will vote for Sanders in the general if he's the nominee.

I also know that saying and doing are very different things.

As I point out in Post #173, I have seen this rage, this open, boiling hatred that is being directed at Sanders before. i saw it delivered to Barack Obama, and people who dared support him in 2007-2008. By the same people. Who support the same candidate. and then after the covention, I saw those very same people jump ship to vote for McCain.

So you tell me. When I see people calling Sanders a loathesome segregationist gun nut rapist, a radical Jew who is too old to run and is actually a third-party Republican plant... and then i see the same person telling me that they'll vote for him in the general... Why would I believe them?

[mentalslavery]

42. Its probably just right wing trolls, so dont sweat it too much. with that being said....

I put myself more in the bern camp. Hills cool. I have just been more of a bern man for a long time and don't really wanna hear a rehash of the 90's BS. I know that is not her fault but it makes the prospect of the general unmotivating. Plus, she tends to avoid questions and give meaningless answers at times when I want a stronger voice and more specifics.-see keystone comments recently

In terms of those stating that they won't vote for hill, then they are obviously trolls or talkin hella smack that they won't back up. Anybody, including chaffee, besides the GOP. I'll support hill!

[Cleita]

46. That's what I think. None of the Bernie supporters are going out of their way to

bash Hillary.

[mentalslavery]

53. Right, I mean i feel like when I talk to a bern fan in real life

and can confirm they are not a troll.. they are pretty cool about hill. I have sympathy for how unfairly she is treated-see NY bs story. But at the same time I wish she was more of a fighter. I want the hill of hilcare dayz back when she smacked that repuke across the face with the -maybe I should be in the kitchen comment.

And...occasionally I see that fire in her but I think what happened with hilcare really affected her. I think she overlearned the lesson of polispeak and is too controlled.

[MerryBlooms]

50. If even half of the fucking meta bullshit that's posted here would get locked,

the animosity level would drop, but folks have learned the little clever ways to avoid locked threads. It's long been more about the members who can't get along to save their goddamn souls, than it's been about he candidates. One says it's blue the other will say it's red, just to piss each other off. They fight over EVERY THING!!! Now instead of their bickering ending in a few days or week, we've got more than a fucking year of them shitting all over each other and DU. We're all going to have to learn to just ignore the crap and focus on the posts that actually contribute something.

[secondwind]

55. I have repeatedly said that if Hillary wins the nomination she has my vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[djean111]

56. I thought about it - and I think I can go on. But thanks. n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

59. I don't give them Hell.

"I don't give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it's Hell."
- Harry Truman

[cui bono]

60. You post as if HRC supporters are saints.

They are some of the worst examples on here. Just look at the HRC group plotting to take their hatred into real life. Look at the infamous "Not Enough, Bernie" OP that was posted in order to link him to a disgustingly racist pic in people's minds.

It's plain as day. The fact that you would post this OP shows that you are ignoring it and are disingenuous. So really, who cares what you post if it's only to attack Sanders supporters yet again. We are the meanest people ever. We've heard the talking point. Can't you come up with something new?

[Hekate]

120. "Plotting to take their hatred into real life"? Oh please, a link before I ...

[cui bono]

168. I know! Fucking unbelievable, right? But here's a link to my reply to it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=6967

Note the enthusiastic response by a group host as well as many others.

[Puglover]

263. Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

[L0oniX]

270. Did you know that Bernie is now dangerous to the health of DU?

I suppose he is also dangerous to Hillary's campaign. I don't know how much more of this intellectual mind storm I can take.

[MisterP]

64. oooohohoh the gloves are COMING OFF! Bernie's gonna get some REAL tough questions!

I'm sure the officialists are ready to take him DOWN on policy

[Thinkingabout]

65. K & R, very good post.

I do post things about Bernie mostly to show Bernie is not exempt on the corporation associations and other issues. There is nit a need to carry on with the war hawk issue, he and Hillary voted for AUMF which funded the war. I have spent my posts displaying reasons why Hilary is the person we need for our next president.

[pa28]

67. Really? I've seen plenty of hostility and divisive rhetoric from Hillary supporters.

Hillary's public record routinely gets thrown out for discussion by Bernie fans and that's portrayed or inferred as negative attacks by Clinton fans. Why is there such an indignant reaction to discussion of her actual record concerning the war in Iraq, lgbt rights and welfare reform? Those aren't personal attacks.

Is is possible you are turning a blind eye to the "gutter politics" coming from your own side? Have you considered that possibility?

[cantbeserious]

72. The Latest Anti-Bernie Meme - I Disapprove Of Bernie Because I Don't Like His Supporters - Very Lame

eom

[MADem]

98. You may think it's "lame"--but your view isn't controlling. This issue is real, even if you don't

like it. Keep denigrating and alienating Democrats if you think that will help your candidate. Pro tip--that's a "lame" idea that will affect your candidate's reputation long after he goes back to his desk at the Senate.

We're used to getting that kind of shitty, insulting treatment from the GOP--when it starts happening inside the house, don't get the idea that we like it any better.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/21/do-white-liberals-have-a-bernie-sanders-problem/
http://pleasecutthecrap.com/the-one-thing-that-will-stop-bernie-sanders-his-supporters/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-d-rosenstein/an-open-letter-to-bernie_b_7761360.html

[sheshe2]

153. +1000

Truth!

[cantbeserious]

159. I Was Not Denigrating Democrats - The Original OP Did That

eom

[MADem]

334. The original OP did no such thing.

The gentleman under discussion is an Independent who is running under the umbrella of the Democratic Party, but he has said, repeatedly and rather vociferously, that he is not a Democrat. He says that he has always been an Independent, who happens to caucus with the Democrats. He's been consistent about this, too.

[cantbeserious]

344. We Will Have To Agree To Disagree

eom

[Beartracks]

101. +1 - It *is* lame.

"Bernie really speaks to me, he has a straighforward way of cutting through bullshit and explaining things as they are, and his policy positions are just so spot on for what we need in this country. BUT.... you know... I can't vote for him because some fans of his on an online discussion board were overly sensitive and said mean things."

Oh come one, people.

We're all Democrats here. Aren't we?

I wouldn't appreciate any I-won't-vote-for-Hillary-cuz-her-fans-are-mean posts either -- except I haven't seen any of those.

=======================

[cantbeserious]

160. ^^^ This ^^^

eom

[L0oniX]

279. "Lame" ...that's putting it mild. It's more like little children throwing tantrums.

[kath]

291. Yes, it is childish almost beyond belief.

And the lack of self-awareness in the OP is stunning.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

366. Lame and quite victim-y.

I don't do victim. So much garbage is thrown at "the far left" on this site, and I've yet to run to Skinner or create an OP whining about how mean the Woodchucks are. People need to toughen the fuck up. Seriously, if they can't handle comments on a message board, how in the hell do they get through each and every day out in the real world?

Allowing anonymous commenters on a message board to influence your vote -- based on tone, emotion, etc. -- is mind-bogglingly stupid. DU is quite familiar with some of the choice OPs (of Spamdan, smartypants, et al.) attacking libruls, white libruls in particular. None of those OPs influenced my vote in any way, shape or form, and never will. Who is this "Bernie's supporters suck!" approach supposed to appeal to? Who are these delicate little flowers influenced by such things?

[gregcrawford]

73. So where are all these bad-ass Bernie fans?

I thought I'd been following this pretty closely - I AM a Bernie fan - but I haven't seen any of these people; I would take them to task if I had. Maybe it's because I don't frequent the Hillary group. Whatever. I've seen PLENTY of Bernie critics, though, chumming the waters with questionable claims.

Incidentally, I've met Bernie and spoken with him several times. He's one of my senators. He is NOT divisive or polarizing. He's just fed up to the teeth with the evil schemes of rapacious banksters and morally bankrupt corporatists. So am I.

Those who mistakenly equate Bernie's intolerance of fraudsters and criminals with criticism of Hillary might want to take a deep breath and reconsider.

"No wire hangers EVER?" Really? Cleverly veiled reference, though!

[haikugal]

223. Gregcrawford...please let me know what that reference is..I'd like to know.

Thanks!

[gregcrawford]

304. HA! It's from an old movie called "Mommy Dearest"...

... based on a book by the daughter of Joan Crawford (no relation!) I think Faye Dunaway got an Oscar for that role. Anyway, Joanie was a hell of an actress, but somewhat lacking as a mother. When she found wire hangers in her daughter's closet, she went ballistic and started beating her with them, screaming at the top of her lungs,

"How many times have I told you, NO WIRE HANGERS EVER!"

BAD mommy.

[haikugal]

305. Ah, I see........must be awful to suffer such abuse.

Unbelievable...but I see it here daily, claimed anyway.

Thanks! I didn't know what the reference was.

[PDittie]

75. " I will not be abused, Mommie Dearest. "

This is a very odd analogy. Do you really identify with the "attacks" on your candidate this strongly? If so... you perhaps might consider having a talk with some people much more professional than other participants in this forum.

Or maybe take a break from DU. Being so upset at this stage of the primary season -- and blaming your upset on what others post as the cause -- that it compares to a sensationalistic account of child abuse in a biography of a historical figure might just be a little over the top.

It can't be healthy. I wish you the best.

[murielm99]

116. Awwww....

Thank you for your concern.

[PDittie]

144. You're quite welcome!

[Scootaloo]

183. Which is a very odd line, coming from Hillary supporters.

"I was going to do what you wanted, until you said something I didn't like."
"I like you, but you've got to change this and this and this for me to really like you..."
"Shut up and listen to me! SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME! SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME!!!
"I didn't want to do this. You made me."
"I just don't know why you hate me, I do so much for you!"

[Phlem]

77. "Sorry Hillary Clinton fans: no more disclaimers."

But ya'll tried to ram her down our throats WAY before Bernie came along.

This post is completely pathetic.

Hypocritical much?

[MADem]

81. Bernie's fans have soured me, too. Terribly.

The personal insults are mind blowing. I've been here a long time, but this week was the first time a DUer ever called me "Karl Rove" because I'm not feeling that Bern...!

BS was on TV this A. M. refusing to trash HRC. His supporters should follow his lead, but they won't. Why? Because some of them are following the lead of Paulbots looking to create a little chaos, I suspect.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-06-08/meet-the-voters-who-can-t-decide-between-rand-paul-or-bernie-sanders

[Hekate]

128. A newbie who joined 2 days ago says that about a DUer of 11 years standing....

"Rovian tactics"? That takes some nerveless gall that does.

[MADem]

140. I've been here since Day 2, actually!

I didn't have a lot of posts because I mostly looked at DU from work, but I enjoyed it greatly in those dark days.

Then I lost my computer and my email and couldn't recreate my log-in because I forgot my damn password, so I had to begin again!

[Hekate]

151. I thought so! But I just went by your stats page for the year. ...

I wonder if Li'l Newbie there has a similar if less benign story to tell about his longevity.

[MADem]

156. One never knows!!!

Nothing would surprise me, anymore!

[Bobbie Jo]

200. Some of them...

Like the ones who start with the shit-stirring right out of the gate.


Uh-huh.

[Hekate]

231. Aaand he's gone

With another of his short lived ilk soon to follow I bet.

[Agschmid]

234. He's already back I bet...

[Bobbie Jo]

241. Feels like whack-a-mole around here.

[Agschmid]

233. Well that newbie has been here a few times before...

At least that my opinion.

[Hekate]

240. Just can't help themselves, some of them

Their devotion would be endearing if it wasn't so toxic. jmho

[MADem]

135. No, I wasn't. I used published non-wingnut sources, and some didn't like it.

Can't rebut the argument? Call someone a name. That's the way it's done here.

Keep burning the bridges, if you'd like. Hope you know how to swim against a raging current.

[daybranch]

84. I guess I fell sleep, during the disclaimers, but did not see defense, just promises

issues- not confrontation is what Bernie people expect on this site. continued cries of inevitability are not issues. Bernie is only real democrat since Carter.
we Bernie people put people before party. open your mind.

[Iliyah]

85. murielm99, confirmation of what you wrote hereinabove and probably below - LOL

[heaven05]

86. ALL TRUE, sadly

excellent post....the BS crowd has turned off a lot of people that were leaning his way. Totally turned off. I just send people here to read some of the BS from his "gutter dwelling followers" and according to the many I know and have sent here, his supporters here are killing it for him out here in the real world. Yep it has gotten that bad. They'll realize it when some one else gains the nomination and probably, given their blindness, not until then. I haven't made my mind up yet...but one candidate went to the neutral box with me after starting to win my support and that is along with others here who have been turned away by the BS crowd.

[ibegurpard]

94. Oh another Bernie ' s supporters are turning me off him post

No never seen this before...
I don't give a shit how rude, condescending, and obnoxious the Hillary pushers on this board are. If she is the Democratic nominee I will have no choice but to vote for her. In the meantime I will fight like hell to get someone in there who I can readily support.

[RufusTFirefly]

115. The "bad optics" meme didn't work. Perhaps this strategy will stick.

Hope springs eternal, I guess!

I find it amazing how often when I question Clinton's voting record or evasive answers on the campaign trail, I get accused of using right-wing talking points.

[Still In Wisconsin]

107. Here are some of the things I have been called and accused of by Hillary supporters:

I have been called naive, a "moonbat leftie," an idiot, and an unrealistic fool. I have been called a misogynist by a dear friend for wearing a Bernie Sanders t-shirt. I have been accused on these pages of being a Republican plant and told that I am doing the same thing as the people who voted for Nader in the general in '00 for merely supporting Bernie in the primary. And just last night, my own sister told be to "shut the fuck up" when I said I thought Hillary had been influenced too much by corporations.

And yes, I will without hesitation vote for Hillary Clinton if she is the Dem nominee. I will also donate what I can in terms of time and money, when I am not busy working for Russ Feingold. But the nastiness is of a level usually reserved for the most vile members of the opposing party- and it has been BOTH outgoing and incoming as regards the Hillary camp.

OH... and one more point. It is NOT true that anybody with fewer than 10,000 posts is a troll.

[Phlem]

118. Dude your post isn't going to be touched

because they know full goddamned well they do it too and worse. First there was the Elizabeth Warren fit. Then there was all the name calling as you describe above, now it's Bernie followed by said name calling etc...

It's a pattern, anyone who doesn't agree with the Hillary Group is belittled and shamed.

Followed up by the "Oh I have the vapors, they're so rude and mean to me" posts.

Been watching this pattern, it's fucking insane.

[TM99]

225. You forgot a few more.

We are a part of the Progressive Unicorn Brigade. We are racists even if you happen to be a POC yourself. We are the fringe left who hate corporations. We are purists. It is tiresome.

[Still In Wisconsin]

376. In fairness, there are quite a few corporations I do hate...

the rest is pure bullshit. I dislike Hillary but yeah, I'll vote for her if she's the nominee. I'll hold my nose while doing it but still...she's better than any of the Repugs.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

370. Emoprog, emotarian, black helicopter something or other, racist,

PUB (Purity Unicorn Brigade)... so many I forget them all. All tossed about by BOG members against those who criticize Obama's policies.

Such hypocrites, the poor dears. And hypocrites who have ZERO impact on my vote.

[Still In Wisconsin]

375. I am seeing a LOT of accusations of racism from Hillary supporters...

some implied and some right out there in the open.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

378. It's all they've got.

Actually, white liberals have been in Woodchuck sights for quite a while now, pre-Hillary. But unlike the OP, I don't feel "abused" by strangers on a message board. Nor did I let their little tantrums influence my vote for or against Obama in 2012.

Optics suck. Supporters suck. What will the poor dears lob next?

[Gman]

108. I'll ask the question everyone tiptoes around...

Why are Sanders supporters so white?

[Phlem]

119. OMFG.

Really? With this?

It's invisible to you that the Hillary group gives better than it whines about.

[Gman]

125. So why is it?

[bravenak]

184. Interesting question. Let me know when you find out.

I've already told them why, so hopefully the message spreads and that changes soon.

[Gman]

191. I'm not counting on it.

I've been told below I was race baiting. They don't get it.

And it's not that whites shouldn't be supporting Sanders. It's that they don't reach out to others. Others are just supposed to do it in a way that is according to what the Sanders supporters think it should be.

On edit.....

Not to mention the fact that their economic justice helps Blacks and Latinos is a flawed argument as it doesn't fix the racism issue.

There's just so much more.

[Phlem]

196. And you have to ask.

Check post #139

Race bait much?

Sorry I was busy doing something productive and not slinging mud.

"So why is it" Really.

[1StrongBlackMan]

293. I suspect because in the end ...

his message is about reviving the white middleclass to its former "glory."

[Gman]

295. I don't like to think that's true

But you are very likely correct.

[1StrongBlackMan]

299. I might add ...

days that weren't all that glorious for Black folks.

[Gman]

326. No need to

As its undertood.

And it's like they've all just shook off the Sanders BLM debacle and said, oh well.... And not just the supporters but Sanders too. Just like it never happened. They learned nothing

I still can't believe somebody here said I was race baiting.

[1StrongBlackMan]

331. Well believe it ...

But I will say Bernie seems to have opened his eyes/message a bit since BLM.

But his supporters, nah ...

[JimDandy]

306. OMG...what bullcrap!

I have read your posts and respected them for years. Not any more. Your current discourse is no longer reflective of someone I had held in high esteem even when I disagreed with them.

This is race baiting beyond the pale. You are on ignore.

[1StrongBlackMan]

311. I am crushed. n/t

[Still In Wisconsin]

310. Where do you get that?

Where has Bernie Sanders ever said that he's about making sure white folks are taken care of and that life should look like Leave It to Beaver? Scott Walker, yeah, that's what he's about. But Bernie Sanders? Really?

[1StrongBlackMan]

312. To be fair ...

I don't believe that Bernie is thinking of making sure white folks, in particular, are taken care of; rather he is color blind/deaf.

[Still In Wisconsin]

314. OK, I can't argue that with facts...

I like Bernie because I think he's our best chance at the moment of putting a dent in corporatocracy. I dislike Hillary because of her intimate ties to corporate America, but there are a lot of reasons to like her, not the least of which are her outspoken support of People of Color and LGBT people. I will vote for her without hesitation if she is the nominee, but I just can't get past the corporate ties. Maybe I'm being unrealistic, I don't know.

I do know that this campaign has gotten very ugly very quickly. Lots of vitriol flying in a lot of directions, and I'm speaking only of our Democratic primary.

[aikoaiko]

315. But you're not calling him a racist, right?

[1StrongBlackMan]

320. NO! I am not calling Bernie a racist. n/t

[aikoaiko]

323. But you think he's reviving the white middleclass to its past and to a time that wasn't glorious...

...for Black Americans because of Jim Crow and other forms of racist discrimination, right?

[1StrongBlackMan]

330. Yes ... But that doesn't make one a racist ...

It just means that someone presumes their experience is the experience of others. That's what color blindness does.

[Still In Wisconsin]

139. Race bait much? n/t

[Gman]

148. Doesn't answer the question.

[Still In Wisconsin]

171. Ever notice almost everybody at a Neil Young concert is white?

Gee... Neil Young must be a RACIST!

[Phlem]

197. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Thanks bud. You rock!

[1StrongBlackMan]

296. See Post #294.

[1StrongBlackMan]

294. That doesn't mean that, at all! But what it does mean is ...

his music is not appealing to many PoC.

But/and while, Neil Young is not dependent upon Black folks attending his concerts or buying his records ... any Democratic candidate running for the Presidency, requires significant Black support.

[Still In Wisconsin]

309. On that we don't disagree at all.

However, the post I replied to pretty much implied that Bernie Sanders and/or most of his supporters are racists. That is what I disagree with.

[1StrongBlackMan]

313. Please stop assigning your interpretation to what others are "implying" because ...

in the end, your interpretation says more about you ... where your mind is ... than what the other person didn't say.

[Still In Wisconsin]

316. I see, got it.

After all, I have fewer than 10,000 posts. My interpretation says I am (insert whatever you want to call me) and I should just sit down and shut up.

So are you telling me I'm a racist, then? Is that where my mind is?

[1StrongBlackMan]

321. Your post count is irrelevent ...

My interpretation says I am (insert whatever you want to call me) and I should just sit down and shut up.

Sighhh ... re-read what you have written.

So are you telling me I'm a racist, then? Is that where my mind is?

No ... I am not telling you that; nor, have I implied that ... but, clearly, that is what you are hearing.

[Still In Wisconsin]

324. Fair enough.

Yeah, that's what I am hearing from others. If that's not what you're saying then I'll take your words at face value.


As far as being told to sit down and shut up, we can just agree to disagree. I do think that's a prominent theme on these pages though. Many Clinton people insist that anyone who does not support her is unrealistic, naive, or a troll. Many Sanders people, I am ashamed to say, insist that anyone who doesn't support Bernie is a corporate sell-out. I've been politically active for liberal/progressive causes for over three decades and I know a bit about how this goes. There is a tone of condescension in a lot of people's language on here for more junior members. Whatever, I'm not a crybaby and as I have said, I will vote for Hillary Clinton without hesitation if she is the nominee, which in all honesty I expect she will be.

As for the rest of this stuff- my own sister told me to (exact quote) "shut the fuck up" when I expressed my opinion about Hillary's ties to the banksters and corporate interests. Her personal, emotional investment in Hillary Clinton is palpable. If I can take that from family then I can handle comments on a web forum.

[nadinbrzezinski]

333. And this folks is why this place reeks

1.- No, the audience is not white. I saw that at a local meeting for Sanders last week, Still doing some race baiting?

You want the exact racial breakdown? Like oh I don't know the 1960s news reporting? REALLY, you want that?

2.- Thank you for providing a textbook example of the, yes I will say it, not tiptoe around it, racism on the left, This is why it is STRUCTURAL.

And with that... thanks for giving me even more reason to exit stage something... I do not think I want to exist left (bunch of racists) or right (bunch of racists) or for that matter... middle...

It is even sadder when people who SHOULD KNOW BETTER join you.

Next I expect to hear a few antisemitic slurs, yes, indeed I do. (And those have been posted here as well)

So tell me, not going to tiptoe around it... why the race baiting instead of... I don't know policy discussion? I know, I know the latter takes actual GASP I KNOW! WORK!

[Gman]

335. Race baiting?

You clearly don't get it. And you don't get it because you think that it's just not possible to not get it. Sanders' audiences are embarrassingly white for the Democratic Party. White supporters in Sanders' predominantly white constituency that tell someone to basically shut up about race force out and away anyone else that might want their issues heard. And Sanders people just don't get that. Life and death issues are much more important than economic justice. You've got to be alive to even care about economic justice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

336. I was there reporting with a Sanders audience in the 500 + range

last Wednesday. I am telling you that this audience was NOT FREAKING WHITE ONLY. Please continue to correct not just my eyes, but the digital content in my HD regarding this meeting. I am there as a reporter. That is all. I am not taking sides on this race, and it is a disgusting argument YOU KEEP MAKING.

And yes, I will go there, for your benefit.

The audience was at LEAST 40 percent hispanic, some of whom might look white to you if you do not know them. Hell, I will look white to you as well, and I am Latina, and Jewish. Good luck telling this if you saw me in the streets.

The Audience also contained about 6 percent AA, which is actually higher than the percentage in the WHOLE FREAKING COUNTY or the city, which is slightly higher than the county.

It also contained a smattering of Pacific Islanders, as well as Chaldeans, Somali Americans, LGBT, and Trans. Let's not go into the male female divide. Or do you want me to go there too?

As I said, this is what makes this place suck. You want to play those racist games. Have at it. Please make sure that I now believe Left wingers can be, yes, they can, racist. And I never expected to see this outside of certain lovely places of the internet that now are also linked from here, with mostly no consequence. There was a time that the mere mention got people the ban hammer.

Oh and one last thing... before you tell somebody that htey do not get it about economic issues and structural racism issues, you should inform yourself of what kind of work they do regarding these issues, like for real. Like this article on poverty. A series ons the California Crimial Code 182.5 such as this article, this article and this article.

I think I made my point. Goodbye

[noiretextatique]

368. i am not white

i am sure there are more sanders supporters who are not so white either.

[Gman]

379. Good on you

I don't think Sanders is a bad guy. I think he may be clueless on some current race issues. As a candidate, he should be well aware of the burning issues in the AA community and have proposed solutions. Something that's not economic justice. It can be as simple as reading Black Twitter.

Most of his supporters I can't speak so kindly of.

[noiretextatique]

380. did you happen to see sanders interview with chuck todd?

todd tried to claim that blacklivesmatter activists "disrupted" his event, and sanders stopped him in his tracks. he said the activists were not being heard and used his forum to voice a legitimate grievance. what part of that is dismissive of african-american concerns about racism? and...what is dismissive about economic justice, when over 50% of black youth are unemployed? it is unfortunate that so many democrats reject traditional democratic values because the candidate has an S after his name. sort of reminds me of the whole "civil rights is a communist conspiracy" thing.

[Gman]

382. Glad to see he finally gets it.

I can't say as much for many of his supporters who said the BLM should be polite and ask for a nice meeting. And even accuse me of race baiting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

388. I am sorry, when you INSIST that a campaign only attracts white people

when the reporter who was at one of them ends up giving you the racial breakdown. so 1960s....

Here is the full exchange

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=491765

by the way I recommend you go find all the speeches given to the Urban League last Friday, and take the time to LISTEN to all of them

Two men (who don't get it according to you) had a plan. Secretary Clinton had a great diagnosis, bless her heart, but no plan.

If I add the third man with a plan on the stage, that would be Bush.

I will not give you my reporting, god forbid I should do that. Just the direct links to all five speeches

http://www.c-span.org/video/?327429-102/hillary-clinton-remarks-national-urban-league-conference

http://www.c-span.org/video/?327429-103/martin-omalley-remarks-national-urban-league-conference

http://www.c-span.org/video/?327429-104/senator-bernie-sanders-remarks-national-urban-league-conference

http://www.c-span.org/video/?327429-101/dr-ben-carson-remarks-national-urban-league-conference

http://www.c-span.org/video/?327429-105/jeb-bush-remarks-national-urban-league-conference

I recommend Carson's first. That is truly a puzzling speech... 6 minutes of pull yourself by bootstraps and all truly talking down to people, He truly puzzles me. But that is the short one with almost no content.

Shame on the rest of the media for NOT covering what was a historic event... five presidential candidates at the Urban League, unheard off. And all five should have been covered well beyond the partisan media on EITHER side did. Which was next to nothing anyway.

This is what the movement has done... by the way. This is how little attention the needs of PoCs are getting. 5 presidential candidates on the stage, three of whom are first tier candidates. Yup, you are right, none is paying attention.

By the way, I am not supporting anyone my dear. Well, except big money. I think my candidate, Mr Money, will win anyway.

[George II]

112. Excellent post, thank you for stating what many of "us" here have been thinking the last few weeks.

[wolfie001]

123. Voting for Nader in 2000.....

.....brought us the worst president in our history. I'd like to see a little reasonableness in these debates. The stupid repukes will kill Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid as an afterthought. Who knows what damage they will inflict. These are pathological sociopaths we're dealing with. Hillary will be way better than any of those monsters, IMHO.

[Still In Wisconsin]

131. False equivalency.

Voting for Bernie Sanders as an Independent in the general election would be analogous to voting for Nader in '00. Voting for him in the PRIMARY, or failing to vote for Hillary Clinton in the PRIMARY is not the same at all. That is, unless, you believe that Hillary Clinton is the last and only chance the Democratic Party has in this election.

[wolfie001]

187. Not voting for Hillary in the general election is....

.....the exact same as voting for Nader in 2000. You get a repuke. I'll vote for Bernie because he's pro-Union, but when the general election rolls around, and it's Hillary vs. a repuke, the lever has to be pulled for Hillary. A lot of DUers are saying they'll never vote for Hillary. Sounds like a potential 2000 redux.

[Phlem]

211. whoa, I never heard this before!

And hear I thought this is what happened:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore

[Maedhros]

127. Sorry, Hillary is a bad candidate.

I'm not going to stop saying that just to spare feelings.

[RufusTFirefly]

137. Yes. And the focus on hurt feelings is designed to draw attention away from discussing the issues

The prospect of going head to head with Bernie on actual issues obviously terrifies some of Hillary supporters.

Frankly, I don't blame them. If I supported Hillary, I'd be terrified, too.

Is it any wonder that DWS is trying to severely limit the scope and number of debates?

[Phlem]

212. Plain and simple my friend. I like the way you roll.

[Geronimoe]

129. Why do Hillary supporters object to free speech and legitmate questions

Once you think the position of the President is owed to your candidate and for god knows what Hillary has actually accomplished in the do nothing millionaire Senate, you feel anyone questioning such a ridiculous notion as being unfair.

I do not think being in the Senate for 1.5 terms automatically makes one qualified.

I do not think being a former President's wife, makes one automatically qualified. (Laura Bush)

I do not think being Sec of State, makes one automatically qualified (Madeline Albright, Condi Rice).

A very big factor in why Obama beat Hillary was her huge support for Bush and Cheney illegal wars. For many this shows terrible judgment and makes her unsuitable to become President.

[Marty McGraw]

133. I'm really sad

and regretful I ever came on to this obvious flame baiting post. Just curious of the methods a few try to divide the rest of us as 'others'.

Thankfully we have someone like Bernie to champion our way up out of 'otherness'. It's been way too long that we have been without our true spiritual voice.

[graywarrior]

134. I've been here at DU since 2002 but I don't dare post anything at GD pr GDP because of the

absolutely disgusting hatred that is aimed at certain candidates and their supporters. Sometimes I can't even read some threads they're so bad. In fact, the hatred by some of the Bernie supporters here really don't make me want to vote for the guy if that's what he attracts.

Go ahead and attack me for that, I really don't give a fiddler's fuck. People here are so wrapped up in their self importance, they probably won't even read this because they don't recognize my name as "one of them."

[ibegurpard]

147. And yet you just dared

Give me a break.

[graywarrior]

157. Can't just keep your snark to yourself, can you.

This is the new way we treat DUers....like absolute crap. Pat yourself on the back, hero.

[ibegurpard]

158. this nonsense

About Bernie Sanders supporters treating everyone like shit and all of these "victims" crawling out of the woodwork is bullshit.

[graywarrior]

167. Whatever you say.

Everyone at the new DU is right.

[Phlem]

198. And whatever you say mam.

[sheshe2]

269. It's good to see you again gray!

[Hekate]

232. I miss the taped duck. Where did he go after you freed him?

Way too much hackery around here these days, I agree. It's a helluva deal when long time DUers, good Dems, have to hide out in protected groups just to have a decent exchange of views or celebration of progress without incessant baiting. Both the BOG and the HRC groups are still in business, btw.

[Agschmid]

235. I recognize your name...

And I only remember respecting you and enjoying your posts.

[Bobbie Jo]

242. Yep

"Go ahead and attack me for that..."

I see two of them lined up to do just that. This train is never late.

Good to see you anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

389. What you are seeing is hyper partisanship on steroids

I guess both Mrs Clinton and Mr Sanders eat children for breakfast (given what is posted here, yup) I wonder, do they exchange recipes? And where do they get their victims?

It used to be confined to the House and the Senate, more the House, and chiefly one party, but the virus has gone and infected way too many people.

Right now these people are at war. I cover this shit as a non partisan reporter, and even for daring to say that a local event had many minorities... obviously I support Sanders. It could not be... I was there, I am reporting what happened at the event.. nope, I must somehow be district manager... I s'pose it could be fun... for a campaign that has no district managers for the local area... so the job is actually open.

It really makes me not want to post here either to be honest. And this is what will destroy the country, Not republicans, not democrats, hyper partisanship. Yes, Republicans, from all available data, have the lions share of this, but dems are not innocent lambs to the slaughter. And it is just getting worst.

I know that due to this idiocy (and the good dose of racism, and antisemitism< and a few other ism's) I will never again join either national party. Oh and the media does not do nothing but fan the flames as well. You no longer see issues coverage either, except for a few indie papers here and there. It is all he said, she said. RUN FER THEM HILLS!!!!!

[shenmue]

136. Go Muriel

Preach!

[840high]

141. So tired of this kind of op's.

When a Hillary supported linked to Stormfront - pray tell where was your outrage?

[stupidicus]

152. Bernie's "gutter dwellers" don't trump Hillary's "high rise" dwellers

you know, that "!%" crowd that cultivated and made her the woman she is today?

A lot of them are likely HC supporters posing seeking the goal you're promoting -- allowing a small minority to poison the pool.

Are they all "gutter dwellers", or like Trump's immigrants, have a few good people sprinkled in?

[RichVRichV]

155. Projection

It's not just for Republicans.

[SunSeeker]

164. Excellent post. Thank you!

[FlatBaroque]

190. Yeah! So fresh!

[artislife]

192. And minty!

[sheshe2]

275. Hi, SunSeeker

I agree with you, an excellent post!

[orpupilofnature57]

179. Where are your questions and where are the lies ? stall tactics and smoke .

[applegrove]

181. Don't forget that the GOP have paid trolls who like to disrupt

the DU and democratic ideas or politics in general. They do it everywhere. So some of the worst attacks are to try and make Hillary supporters uncomfortable in places like this. How else to dissuade independents who might be looking for a place to suss out their pro-democratic feelings. They started a feminist war, a race war on the DU before. Who says that when the stakes are even higher the GOP totally ignores the DU. A small percentage. But a certain % nonetheless. The NY Times has talked about it. So should we.

[postatomic]

195. "Forget Benghazi, this might be the real deal. nt"

This is what one of those "independent thinkers" said when presented with a story that had no factual basis.

This is a reference to a right-wing talking point and it's being used here by one of the minions that march. March to the Sea.

[SunSeeker]

206. So my innocuous "Thank you" reply to your OP is met with not one but two Bernie supporters' sarcasm.

They probably lack the self awareness that they are proving your point by their posts.

[ibegurpard]

207. no

It's just the claims of victimization and the other Hillary posters on here are tiresome.

[SunSeeker]

208. And you too prove the OP's point. nt

[ibegurpard]

215. the OP has no point

Hillary people are trying to spread the word that Bernie Sanders supporters are awful. That's all it is. It's just another bullshit angle to try to bring him down since nothing else has worked so far.
Bernie has no monopoly on obnoxious cheerleaders and you, being one of the worst offenders, knows that full well.

[jfern]

362. That's all they have

It's not like Hillary actually inspires anyone with her 3rd way neoliberal hawkish agenda.

[Phlem]

217. your absolutely correct!

Hillary fans don't do any of this either!

Thanks for that!

[SunSeeker]

220. And you make number four. nt

[Phlem]

221. yep. like the guy said.

nothing there. But hey I'm sure you'v cornered the market on all critical and spiritual thinking so, nice mountain you stand upon.

you have a just absolutely great evening.

[Cha]

253. I got an ugly personal attack from that one, too. Told him.. "That's like a Badge of Honor for me!"

You too.

Watch me get another badge of honor!

[SunSeeker]

254. Hi Cha. I'm glad they haven't bullied you into silence.

[Cha]

255. Nah, I just laugh at their attacks. Says everything about them and nothing about who's in their

sights.

SunSeeker

[Luminous Animal]

214. Gutter dwelling. Polarizing. Divisive. Shoved down our throats. Cheers! You've taken the high road!

[Phlem]

219. Exactly.

There's so much BS in this thread you could run the country for years just from all the methane.

[Martin Eden]

264. Succinct summary of the OP

The OP intentionally incited the kind of flame war with divisive name calling she claims to abhor.

[Trajan]

239. Cool ...

Gone ...

[Comrade Grumpy]

243. Threads like these indicate some sort of collective pathology on DU.

Anyone care to discuss issues? Or even the candidates?

This shit is just sniping at each other.

[artislife]

257. I have to admit

I am mildly interested in how they will word version 324 of the same OP ... such creativity...

[Martin Eden]

317. Yes, it is

And it reflects the political discourse of our country in general.

[Scuba]

260. So let me see if I got this straight. You won't support Bernie because people Bernie ....

... has never even heard of support him while being rude to you/your candidate, yet Hillary's praise for war criminal Henry Kissinger and close ties to Pete Peterson are OK.

Got it.

[Bobbie Jo]

267. Wut?

[colsohlibgal]

272. Democrats

The party has moved steadily right since Bill Clinton.

Bernie may not be technically a democrat but I think his views are way more in line with FDR than Hillary.

I don't hate Hillary, I just have problems with her yes vote on our insane and costly Iraq Invasion. On her having taken in over 2 million speaking before Wall Street firms. Will she really work to reign them in after taking so much from them?

Bernie lays it right out there. No triangulation. I know what he's for and I know programs he wants. He spells it out in detail.

Hillary has not done that. I like some things she's said recently but it's never anything concrete, it's broad.

It's past time for a female president I'm just not sure she is the right one for me. If she gets the nomination I'm not sure what I'll do. Hillary would be preferable over anyone the right runs but how long can we not so much vote for someone but rather vote against the opponent?

[red dog 1]

364. Well stated!!

[Adrahil]

282. I have to say the level of vitriol is shocking to me...

I (wrongly) assumed that Democrats would act with more deliberation and less emotion when discussing candidates. But I think it's a vicious circle.

[William769]

298. Very well said. Thank you.

[frylock]

307. Sanders supporters were labeled as denizens of fantasy land and detached from reality from jump..

I mean, who would take exception to a characterization like that? And now Team Clinton is surprised when they receive a little push back?

[LWolf]

308. Jesus Fucking Christ on some cheese toast.

Last edited Mon Aug 3, 2015, 02:52 PM - Edit history (1)

Do you have anything to say about Hillary Clinton?

Or are you just posting a vituperative OP with the blatant purpose of attacking Sanders supporters with special harshness and low blows by accusing them of being gutter dwellers?

That's a low blow, indeed, and the hypocrisy of this post fucking reeks.

Edited to add: That final line about coat hangers is particularly telling, at least it is for me. The kind of hate that would engender a DU post using a graphic reminder of botched home abortions IS the problem with this nation.

[murielm99]

337. Jesus Fucking Christ on some cheese toast yourself.

I've been called enough names by supporters of the Independent that I don't care. My experience with them here has been almost entirely negative. That is why I have had enough.

As far as your edit is concerned, how culturally illiterate are you? The wire hangers reference is to a book about Joan Crawford, written by her daughter.

[LWolf]

342. I almost lost my mother

to a botched illegal abortion. That's plenty "culturally literate" enough for coat hanger references, as far as I'm concerned.

As for the rest, you posted one of the ugliest rants I've EVER, in 13 years, seen at DU, accusing OTHERS of just what you are doing here.

Hypocrisy is the least of it.

[murielm99]

345. You still don't see the point.

That had nothing to do with abortion.

The ugliness is coming from your side.

Bye.

[LWolf]

363. You can say that now.

You still used the reference.

For many in the reproductive rights movement, the coat hanger is more than a commonplace closet item. Activists use it to memorialize those girls and women who turned to unsafe abortions out of desperation when abortion was illegal. It transforms into shorthand for “Never again.”

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/02/17/beyond-coat-hanger-whats-next-abortion-rights-iconography/

Ugliness? Try this:

I've been posting on DU long enough to have survived several primary seasons. It is always heated. Feelings run hot, people are banned, posts are hidden. As repetitive as this may be, I will say it again. This time it is different. The level of vituperation is dangerous to the health of DU.

The level of vituperation in this post is dangerous to the health of DU...but please...continue to point fingers at others.

It is no secret that I support Hillary Clinton. I expected that I would have to defend her. But I did not expect that I would have to defend her against an array of posts using right-wing sources, incomplete data and outright trolling. Oh sure, we get some of the latter, but in the past, it has been dealt with quickly.

Suggesting that Sanders supporters are trolls...

That did not happen on this website, but it is still a good example of how low Bernie's supporters have sunk.

If it didn't happen on this website, why are you attacking Sanders supporters on this website?

How are we repaid for our disclaimers? We are told that if Hillary wins the nomination, they will not vote for her. We, and our candidate are called names. We are mass alerted.

I haven't told you that. Neither have I "mass alerted." That's true for many fellow Sanders supporters. I can't say it's never happened, because I generally don't read Clinton threads. She's irrelevant to me. I can say that you are using a broad brush.

I am through with disclaimers. Bernie's fans have soured me. I don't think he is a good guy if he attracts such a gutter-dwelling following. If Bernie cannot control his fans, then he has no leadership ability. Bernie is divisive. He is a polarizing figure. He is not even a Democrat, and I do not like the idea that he is being shoved down our throats on a Democratic website.

I think you are protesting too much here, projecting your own sourness on to others. Again, with the name calling you purport to despise. The hyperbole is pretty rich, too. Nobody can shove anybody down your throat. Nobody is forcing you to read what they have to say about Sanders.

And again, with the projecting, re: divisive, polarizing, leadership qualities, etc.

I don't care if you have thousands of posts or if you are a brand new troll. I will continue to defend my candidate without disclaimer. I will not be abused, Mommie Dearest.

Again with the name calling.

The ugliness? That's YOUR projection.

[realFedUp]

319. Thank you

I sense a lot of Bernie supporters are passionate about what he is saying but actually anyone can be saying the same thing. it's not about him. And I think there are Republican trolls who would love Dems fight and lose the election. There are lots of issues in the future to agree together on. Get it together.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

325. No quarter asked, none given? Works for me.

I've triple-checked the numbers, and it looks like I'll be ok without your disclaimers in place. Thanks.

[Attorney in Texas]

332. As a Sanders supporter, I think we need to push for the most liberal nominee then the best President

I am a big fan of Elizabeth Warren; I hoped she would run.

I am a big fan of Bernie Sanders; after my disappointment that Warren chose not to run, I was very relieved that Sanders decided to run.

If there was a candidate to the left of Sanders or Warren, I'd jump ship from the Sanders campaign to climb on board with the more liberal campaign.

The fact that I am a Warren-Sanders-and-Leftward type Democrat should tell you that my political views our not only left of the US mainstream, but left of the mainstream within the Democratic Party.

I accept this fact. I'm even proud of this fact.

One consequence of this fact, however, is the reality that my preferred candidate rarely wins the nomination.

I wish this were not true, but it is.

The second consequence is that I am usually voting in the general election for a less liberal Democratic nominee than the candidate who I supported in the primary.

I did not support President Obama in the early stages of the 2008 primary, or Kerry in the early stages of the 2004 primary, or Gore in the early stages of the 2000 primary, or Clinton in the early stages of 1992 primary.

In each election, our Party's nominee was less liberal than I would have preferred, but I was proud to work for (and vote for) each of our nominees.

This is not surprising because you cannot hold out-of-the-mainstream values (I like to think "better-than-mainstream" values) and then be shocked when the party's mainstream votes for a candidate whose views are more mainstream than the candidate who shares your "better-of-the mainstream" views.

Let's fight to get Sanders nominated. If those of us who share Sanders' values are disappointed in that goal and Clinton gets nominated, let's not pretend that we are willing to stand by while Walker or Bush or whatever charlatan the Republicans nominate gets elected.

Instead, let's fight for the most liberal nominee and then for the best President. Hopefully, we'll get to vote for Sanders twice, but even if not, we'll still get to vote for the best candidate on the ballot twice.

PS - thanks for the kind words in the OP.

[Agony]

339. Grab a mirror

[Aerows]

346. I believe we have fewer Bernie Sanders supporters

than we have "I can't support Hillary unless I absolutely have to."

She's not my candidate of choice in any realm of the politician I would embrace. If -IF- she is the nominee, I will support her due to my obligation to keep nutbags like Walker, Cruz and Trump out of office.

That doesn't mean that there aren't a jillion things that are off-putting about her. She's doing the same things she did in 2008.

Hubris is a subtle and cruel taskmaster.

[dionysus]

347. i'm sure bernie will get right on apologizing for posters on such an important place as DU... what

you want is to be coddled.

and don't forget her dirty campaigning against Obama the last time she lost. the Clintons are what used to be known as liberal republicans.... good on social issues, but in the pocket of big business and war supporters. I still prefer them to republicans. I bet if I got to meet them and hang out i'd like em both a lot as people. evn Obama turned out to be a center-right Dem, and I still like him, too.

Bernie is more of a dem than corporate Hillary ever will be, but don't worry.. with her vast amount of campaign cash, she'll crush him. and i'll still vote for her against the crazy republicans.

have a good night.

[red dog 1]

365. + 1

[Purveyor]

352. What a waste of time, indeed...

[Cheese Sandwich]

355. I think this kind of accusation needs evidence. What they said about Jane Goodall?

Let's see it.

[murielm99]

357. Okay. n/t

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lorraine-devon-wilke/bernie-bullying-and-other_b_7908216.html

[Cheese Sandwich]

359. This? Is this what you found offensive?

This is the comment left on facebook that you found offensive?

I hope this isn't an indication of who Dr. Jane Goodall will be supporting in the U.S. Presidential election. Please, please take a look at what Bernie Sanders is all about before jumping on board with Hillary Clinton. Bernie is the real deal, genuine, consistent, and always fighting for the average American, what's right and fair, and not tied to big money interests. Hillary Clinton is very much in the pocket of Big Money including oil companies that are threatening the environment and against measures to combat climate change. Bernie Sanders has put addressing climate change at the forefront of his platform, along with fighting income inequality and reforming our political system. #FeeltheBern #Bernie2016

That's the evidence from the article you linked.

If that's all the evidence, and that's what they call "Bernie Bullying", then I would say it's mostly not appropriate outrage. Because that comment is not very offensive at all. It's very tame compared to other crap we see on the internet all the time.

Some kid maybe wrote that, possibly even literally a child. Who knows really? Maybe the man or woman who wrote that is a fan of Jane Goodall and also of Bernie Sanders.

If you have any more evidence you can keep posting it.

[murielm99]

360. You are not worth the effort.

Goodbye.

[Cheese Sandwich]

361. If this is the whole evidence that this big accusation and drama is based on, that's really sad.

There may well have been some other things, but this is they best they could come up with in a Huff. Post blog, and that blogger was clearly looking for stuff. And that's the best evidence.

This, posted on the public facebook page of a celebrity:

I hope this isn't an indication of who Dr. Jane Goodall will be supporting in the U.S. Presidential election. Please, please take a look at what Bernie Sanders is all about before jumping on board with Hillary Clinton. Bernie is the real deal, genuine, consistent, and always fighting for the average American, what's right and fair, and not tied to big money interests. Hillary Clinton is very much in the pocket of Big Money including oil companies that are threatening the environment and against measures to combat climate change. Bernie Sanders has put addressing climate change at the forefront of his platform, along with fighting income inequality and reforming our political system. #FeeltheBern #Bernie2016

That is not even remotely offensive in that context. And even if it were, it hardly represents all Sanders people or the candidate.

If that's the whole thing, that's really, really pathetic.

[noiretextatique]

367. i see a lot of people acting like spoiled, whiny children

Last edited Tue Aug 4, 2015, 07:46 PM - Edit history (2)

claiming one side or another is being unfair, when many of the accusers are doing the exact same thing as those they accuse: they are just convinced THEY are right and the other side is wrong. i strongly prefer sanders, but i will vote for democratic nominee, as will most here, because the GOP candidate will be a nightmare. so...everyone put on your big girl/boy pants and duke it out, and quit your bitching. and if you sour on a candidate because of a few of his/her DU supporters, be honest with yourself: you never seriously considered that candidate in the first place. i believe clinton will win the democratic nomination, and when that happens, you will have your pro-clinton paradise at DU. until then: this is what democracy looks and feels like. some people are going to attack your preferred candidate, some will be unfair, some will try to be fair, and get attacked for not being a die-hard supporter. some will make baseless accusations, and some will act as if any criticism is bashing. i have been here since 2001, and nothing is different with this primary than any other.

[DrDan]

371. 2000? Don't think so.

neither does your profile

[noiretextatique]

372. since close to the beginning...do you have a comment on my post?

or just the fact that i'm not good with dates?

[DrDan]

373. I disagree with nothing you have stated

I prefer to stay out of the fray during these primary seasons - too toxic. Too many here think they have it all figured out - with more than a year to go - and do not want to hear any dissenting views. Not unlike a spoiled child - as you said. Too bad GD-P is not issue-focused - but alas, it is not.

I also think it will be coming down to Hillary - have thought so for some time - and against Jeb.

btw - I am a 2001 joiner also. The 2000 caught my eye because DU was only a figment of someone's imagination then. Reality began in 2001.

[noiretextatique]

374. thanks, DrDan...i confess: i have terrible memory for dates

so thanks for the reminder. i am probably going to take a break too....too...much...bullshit, as with every primary.

[fbc]

381. It's not Bernie. It would have been the same with Warren.

Hillary is a bad candidate that is disliked by a majority of Americans which also happens to include many of the voters in her party.

The problem here is that Hillary supporters were fooled into believing she is a good candidate by meaningless polls taken before the race ever started. And now that those huge meaningless poll leads are starting to evaporate, they want someone to blame. How about this? Blame yourselves for being fooled.

Don't blame Bernie. If it wasn't him it would have been someone else.

[murielm99]

399. That is ridiculous.

Her numbers show the opposite. Dream on.

[KoKo]

384. Are you serious?

You say:

I am through with disclaimers. Bernie's fans have soured me. I don't think he is a good guy if he attracts such a gutter-dwelling following. If Bernie cannot control his fans, then he has no leadership ability. Bernie is divisive. He is a polarizing figure. He is not even a Democrat, and I do not like the idea that he is being shoved down our throats on a Democratic website.

I don't care if you have thousands of posts or if you are a brand new troll. I will continue to defend my candidate without disclaimer. I will not be abused, Mommie Dearest.

Pardon me while I go put all the wires hangers back in my closet.

[hay rick]

390. "If Bernie cannot control his fans, then he has no leadership ability."

Bernie let us down by not reining in boorish posters on DU...

[murielm99]

400. Do you know what an analogy is?

The Independent's fans are abusing everyone else on this site, just like Joan Crawford abused her daughter. I am saying that I will not accept that abuse any more. I will object to it.

Yes, I am serious.

BTW, I don't need a reminder. I know what I said.

[retrowire]

397. I'm rolling my eyes

this mob mentality bs is getting out of hand.

I support Bernie, and not all Bernie supporters are the same. don't compartmentalize people like that. that's primitive thinking.

[Aerows]

401. A *LOT* of people

are irritated by the "Hillary is the only candidate" narrative.

This attitude is the same thing that caused her to lose in 2008.

Many want a more leftist political direction for our party to go, other than the direction Hillary wants to take it.

It would behoove you to not continue berating those that don't support her for the Democratic nomination. She might just get it, but then we will be looking at a Republican in the White House.

[One of the 99]

404. Don't blame Bernie he is a good man

And I think he needs to be a candidate. He probably won't win but he is changing the debate and forcing Hillary to address progressive issues.

[murielm99]

406. Thank you for this very nice post.

I think if everyone who supports him had reacted the way you do, and if they had taken issue with Hillary's record in a more truthful manner, I would not feel this way.