Bernie Sanders Slams Clinton for Having Supported Slashing of America's Safety Net

[FreakinDJ]

Bernie Sanders Slams Clinton for Having Supported Slashing of America's Safety Net


Bernie Sanders is criticizing Hillary Clinton for supporting the gutting of the welfare system under Bill Clinton's watch. In 1996, Bill Clinton passed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, with the advertised intention of "ending welfare as we know it." Many critics believe that's exactly what it did. Three assistant secretaries at the Department of Health resigned in protest of the act, claiming that it shredded the existing safety net. In her 2003 book, Living History, Clinton writes that she supported the legislation.

Bloomberg'sJosh Eidelson reports that Sanders is now taking aim at Clinton for this position. "I think that history will suggest that that legislation has not worked terribly well," Sanders told Bloomberg, "I mean, that’s what Ronald Reagan’s ‘welfare queen’ was all about. It was the illusion that we’re spending huge sums of money on people who are cheating, who are taking of the welfare system and so forth."

In her book Clinton insists welfare reform gave millions of parents jobs, but many see things quite differently In his Harper's essay on Hillary's campaign, economic analyst Doug Henwood writes about a Center on Budget and Policy Priorities report that analyzed the long-term impact of welfare reform. "They found that [it's] serving fewer families despite increased demand, that the value of benefits has eroded to the point where beneficiaries can’t meet their basic needs, and that it does far less to reduce poverty than its predecessor, AFDC. In addition, the report noted that almost all of the early employment gains for single mothers have since been reversed."

Clinton's support of her husband's legislation briefly came up during the 2008 campaign as well. Then Senator Obama declared, "I won't second guess President Clinton for signing."

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-slams-clinton-her-support-welfare-reform-gutted-safety-net

[Thinkingabout]

1. The welfare reform gave training for two years, childcare, food and shelter assistance

And she was right more parents was working. What would Bernie's plan consist of?

[jeff47]

4. More parents were working in a labor market boom?!

Why, clearly it must have been destroying welfare that did it!! Just....don't pay any attention to the current numbers.

Or even better, forget to adjust the current numbers for population growth before paying attention to them.

[Historic NY]

57. It was the start of a turn around in NY City....

for many people.

The 1996 law is generally heralded as a historic, bipartisan success. Welfare rolls have plummeted, and the poverty rate is still lower than it was in 1996, despite the prolonged economic slump. Even in this tough economy, the number of New Yorkers on welfare is about 350,000 — a far cry from the 1.1 million (one out of every seven city residents!) on welfare in the mid ’90s.

http://nypost.com/2012/08/20/welfare-work-first-still-works-best/

From 1994–2009, work rates for single mothers rose from 43 percent to 63 percent. Overall labor force participation rose from under 55 percent to more than 60 percent (during a period when labor force participation nationwide declined). In 2011, even after the Great Recession, child poverty in NYC was almost 10 percentage points lower than in 1993, the year before welfare reform started.


Bill de Blasio moves to eliminate workfare in NYC....
http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/09/bill-de-blasio-moves-to-eliminate-workfare-in-nyc/

He is getting blasted too....

[Historic NY]

63. He should actually look at his own states roll ..

https://www.heartland.org/media-library/pdfs/Vermont.pdf

[George II]

116. Yes, it was a historic and for many life-changing bipartisan success.

It wasn't perfect, but it helped millions of American single parents - it got many parents (mostly women) back in the workforce and even more children above or at least closer to that poverty line.

I'm sure Bill and Hillary Clinton are smiling inside, knowing that they're being "slammed" for successful legislation.

Like so many of the comments we see, what has the "slammer" done that was more effective than this legislation?

[bread_and_roses]

112. Welfare "reform" was a cruel and savage act

I worked in human services. I know what it did to families. I know what it did to women - mothers. I know how it impacted their children.

It was a sop to racists but poor and low-income whites suffered too, of course.

Many just "disappeared" - camping on relatives couches.

Single mothers could no longer go to school.

Mothers forced to work a few hours at McDonald's - requiring hours a day on buses to get infants and toddlers to day care so they could work a four hour shift at minimum wage ...

What used to be a meagre but at least marginally manageable safety net became insufficient to even the most basic needs.

And there is plenty of data and studies out there to confirm what I am saying.

Anyone who is actually interested - and not just in pretending that either one of the Clintons ever gave a damn about actual children and families - can find it easily enough.

[Thinkingabout]

117. So you think it is okay for people like myself who has a minimum wage job to work and pay taxes

which provides for those in the safety net and when training for jobs is too hard for others? Give me a break, who has sympathy for me? Does those families you assist have a better life than I can provide with my minimum wage position? If this is the case then something is really wrong. I would be happy to receive training in order to get employment. In the two years assistance is still received, I would be required to do the training.

[questionseverything]

127. to be clear

i want millionaires and billionaires to provide the safety net

[Thinkingabout]

129. Currently the working people are taking care of it.

[questionseverything]

133. yes that is the status qua we are fighting against

that is why we need bernie

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251501412

[Thinkingabout]

136. How is Bernie planning on doing with welfare reform?

[questionseverything]

142. tax the people with the money,,not minimum wage earners

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/12/02/bernie-sanders-unveils-12-point-economic-plan-break-koch-oligarchs.html

[Thinkingabout]

144. Got it, let's forget about training people for jobs.

[Red Knight]

159. Don't know what you're talking about

Sanders wants to make public universities tuition free for one thing, he wants to invest a trillion dollars in infrastructure investment. He would create opportunities for folks who don't have it now and certainly create jobs which would look to put people to work--not on welfare. But there are always going to be people who fall through the cracks. If I had a minimum wage job I'd want to be sure that proper safety nets were there because I'm closer to needing them than wealthy tax cuts.

[Thinkingabout]

160. The thread is about welfare reform.

[bread_and_roses]

148. No, I do not think low-wage workers should bear the burden of the safety net

The minimum wage in this country is a joke - that's why we have the "Fight for $15." And ordinary workers ARE overtaxed, while our Corporate Overlords scam the system and make out -literally - like the viscious vampire profiteers they are.

However, I do not think you have a good understanding of either the "welfare" system as it exists today, as it existed pre-"reform" or what the actual effects of that "reform" were. It was a bad system - I would never claim otherwise - but bad as it was, it had better provisions than after "reform" - which savagely impacted the very poor, and mothers and children worst of all.

And let me ask you - if we had every able-bodies person in this country trained and job-ready, is there a job they can live on waiting for them? If you are working for minimum wage, you know the answer is no. In fact, there probably isn't a job at all for all of us, never mind one at an actual living wage. So why blame those who happened to still be standing when the music stopped and the chairs were all taken.

Your situation is wrong and unjust. So is that of those who have the terrible misfortune of having to depend on the savage system Clinton unleashed on them.

We need to fight for better for everyone - not blame and punish the unlucky.

[Thinkingabout]

149. I like the thought of training, I don't see others working with me who has training

For jobs other than the type I am working and I don't look upon myself as being a bad person for working for lower wages. If I did not know how to fish and fishing would provide me a source of food I would be very happy to train for fishing. I look at my minimum wage job as being better than no income and much better than not having a job.

The reforms paid for childcare, food assistance, and housing assistance during the time of training. Assistance was already going so what better opportunity for those able bodies than to spend on training?

[bread_and_roses]

150. Of course working for low wages doesn't make you a "bad person!"

It does, however, make you an exploited person - but that is why some of us fight to raise everyone's wages.

Look, I understand that training sounds good - and goddess knows, I am not against providing people training. But you are sadly mistaken in what you think the Welfare "Reform" bill did to support low-wage and poor people while in training. It is seriously - actually fatally - flawed by the limitations that were put on it.

I am not against providing people training. However, I am very much against forcing people into training that often amounts to nothing except free labor for our Corporate Overlords, or limits them to training for very low-wage jobs that will keep them in poverty or which denies them training for better jobs because it takes two years instead of six months ....

Not to mention people would be seriously undernourished if they relied solely on the available "food assistance" ...

I could go on on. I trust that you are a decent person, in a hard place yourself. You can take my word for it or go do the research yourself - we called it "Welfare Deform" for a reason.

Either way, peace and good wishes for better times for you, for all of us down here in the 99%

edit to remove inadvertent underlining

[Thinkingabout]

151. I can only speak for myself and say if I was 20 years old and i had an offer to get training for a

Jib in which I would get the benefit in my future life and an opportunity to provide for my needs even it it meant relocating elsewhere to take the job. I take great pride in providing for my needs, work does not hurt anyone.

[Ken Burch]

157. It's not like it has to be training OR welfare. You can have both.

And nobody's against getting people more job training. No one had to have their benefits cut off for the job training Clinton supposedly brought in(which didn't train people for much, really).

What we need is training AND jobs programs...and single-payer healthcare (the main reason most people on welfare stayed there was that there weren't jobs that provided health coverage for their kids. Make healthcare truly universal and at low personal cost and almost no one would be on welfare for any length of time. And it would make your life easier as a minimum-wage worker.

[Ken Burch]

156. You've made a case for doing more for minimum wage workers...

...not for punishing people for being on welfare. By your own admission, making life harder for them (and you knew they were on welfare because there weren't jobs for them) didn't help you at all.

It's people with more who are your enemy, not people with less.

[ibegurpard]

2. good

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. A well deserved "slam". K&R

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. Good for Bernie, who prefers helping the people SLEEPing on Main Street, as compared to Hillary, who favors the corporatists REAPing on Wall Street!

Go Bernie Go!!!

[CharlotteVale]

6. Glad he is calling her out on it.

[Control-Z]

7. So Sanders is attacking Hillary

for something her husband did - under entirely different economic circumstances?

[ibegurpard]

9. Oh she's all about running on Bill's record hersrlf

Except when she's not...

[artislife]

22. Being First Lady

of Little Rock and the nation was cited again and again by her supporters as experience in domestic and foreign affairs.

bleh

[bvar22]

137. Hillary is On Record at the time supporting it, wrote about supporting it in her book,

....and still calls it a "victory" today.
We can hope she evolves again.

[Ken Burch]

17. It matters because she still defends it.

She could put this to rest by admitting the poor had done nothing to deserve punishment and that most people on welfare never made a lifestyle choice out of it, but were only there because there were no jobs for them to take.

She could also admit that poverty was not mainly a black thing(most people on welfare are white and this has always been the case) and that the vast majority of single black women never had children out of wedlock or intentionally kept having ore kids just to increase their welfare payments.

In short, she could admit Marian Wright Edelman was right and Bill was wrong.

[bravenak]

42. Yes. They were WRONG. I want an apology tour from Bill AND Hillary (she bragged about it).

And then I want to see what each candidate will do to correct this situation. End time limits and penalties and let drug felons have fucking food stamps back. Add this to the list of demands. We need a running list of demands.

[jwirr]

71. Add a guaranteed minimum income. That would take care of a lot of the mess. And it would end

the lines at the welfare office.

[bravenak]

72. Yes! Thank you!!

Emergency cash disbursements to the poor too and the section 8 program expanded. I have a bunch more idea that pop up all the time.

[jwirr]

73. I suspect there is a lot more we could add. There is so much need out here. And all we have seen

in a long while is cuts dreamed up by the Rs.

[bvar22]

139. Here is what I dream about:

FDR Economic Bill of Rights, 1944, State of the Union Address:

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be[font size=3] established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

[font size=3]America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.[/font]

Please note that the above are stipulated as Basic Human RIGHTS to be protected by our government,
and NOT as COMMODITIES to be SOLD to Americans by For Profit Corporations.


There was a time I can remember when voting FOR The Democrat
was voting FOR the above values.
Sadly, this is no longer true.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

155. K&R for this post. Economic Bill of Rights!

Why is there more support for the "right" to have a shit load of guns than for people to have a decent life?

[SusanCalvin]

82. And we (our country) could easily afford this. nt

[DonCoquixote]

98. wow...that was brave

no pun meant

However, now I am afraid the attacks from certain Clinton people will double, especially the ones who went to Clinton because he knew how to cover the racism and classism the party used to define as the enemy. Hell, he still has not apologized for blowing all those dog whistles in 2008, not for calling Obama a "wuss." I would not be as angry if she was not counting on the Black vote so much.

[bravenak]

103. Well, this issue needs attention.

Things can be improved but she has to be told that nobody is falling for the idea that welfare reform was awesome. She better get her plan out there to fix shit.

[bvar22]

143. That is light weight compared to what the Old Dog did in the Arkansas Primary of 2010...

...when he was sent back to Arkansas to raise money and Campaign for Blanche Lincoln.
Blanche has NEVER done ANYTHING for the poor and underprivileged of Arkansas,
but you would believe Blanche was a Joan of Arc of the Democratic Party if you listened to Bill.

The worst were the gratuitous slams against "Liberals" and "Unions".

"So what did the Democratic Party establishment do when a Senator who allegedly impedes their agenda faced a primary challenger who would be more supportive of that agenda? They engaged in full-scale efforts to support Blanche Lincoln.

* Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing liberal groups for good measure.

*Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests.

*The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln — a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just don’t have the votes for.

The Left has NOT surrendered, but has taken many Beat Downs from the Democratic Party Power Brokers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024586209

[questionseverything]

128. add re entery to subsidized housing to the list please

[LWolf]

21. I didn't see any attacking going on. nt

[SusanCalvin]

81. He is attacking positions she has claimed. nt

[SonderWoman]

8. We should be encouraging people to work.

And paying into Social Security, Medicare, and retirement. These are good for our citizens and economy. Otherwise it will lead to future crisis. While at the same time protecting safety nets for those who truly need them, which is also good for our citizens and economy.

[artislife]

23. Well when we create enough good paying jobs, maybe we will. nt

[bravenak]

32. Do you see the hidden post above yours?

I would never have expected to see something like that.
Something is wrong. This is not how we usually are.

[artislife]

33. Vile, completely vile

Lots of people revealing themselves.

[bravenak]

34. They sure are. Wow. nt

[SusanCalvin]

51. Baffling, I would say.

I think it was meant to be vile, but I can't figure out what it was meant to actually say. Is a puzzlement.

[bravenak]

53. I wonder what it means too. Really.nt

[Kali]

84. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027054989

[bravenak]

99. I knew something was wrong.nt

[artislife]

92. So it was a mix up!

That is a warning folks, be sure that jpeg is of Bernie and not your sexy selves when posting. It is dangerous to multi task!

[beam me up scottie]

36. WTF?

I know it's hard to shock people anymore during the primaries but that was just...wow.

It should have been 7-0 to hide.

More than one thing wrong there.

[bravenak]

37. Right?!? Who is that ONE GUY who is ALWAYS on the jury?!?

I think people need to chill the second they think about writing the word 'vagina' during policy discussions like this one. Jeeze...

[beam me up scottie]

41. It's one of those words that's okay if we refer to it but a no no for them.

Seriously.

[bravenak]

43. Yeah. We own those things. Ours!nt

[beam me up scottie]

54. OEM

[bravenak]

55. Sho nuff!

[Kali]

85. it would seem to be an accident

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027054989

[beam me up scottie]

86. Thanks!

I'm glad they cleared that up, if it was anyone but Kentuckian I wouldn't believe them.

That's pretty funny actually.

Okay it's really funny.

[Live and Learn]

88. Best laugh I've had all week.

I have had some posting and texting gaffes in my time but nothing quite like that.

[beam me up scottie]

90. I thought someone started drinking a little early...

I know guys like that, complete gentlemen when sober and they get a little too...inappropriate when they've had a few.

So glad Kentuckian isn't one of them.

[Kali]

89. I was on the jury

it was so bizarre, but I had to go with a hide and a "WTF?"

then I saw the explanation thread and had to laugh

[beam me up scottie]

91. At least we didn't start a campaign to get him thrown off DU.

At least I hope no one did.

Lol, that is one ginormous boo boo.

[Kali]

83. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027054989

[SwampG8r]

93. I saw it

I am in a constant state of wow
Eta saw the explanation thread
Too funny

[bravenak]

100. Lol! I had NEVER seen him act like that.

Now I know why.

[Enthusiast]

119. Geez. WHERE have I heard that before? "We should be encouraging people to work."

At the same time you imply we are using the safety net for people that are not truly in need.

Are we just handing out welfare to anyone and everyone whether they are in need or not?

Are people undeserving?

[winter is coming]

10. Ah, if only the two of them could discuss this issue face-to-face in a public meeting,

where the voters could do a compare and contrast...

[questionseverything]

13. what an original idea!!

you should send it to someone in charge!!!

what would we call this thing?

<<banging head against wall>

[artislife]

24. It doesn't matter...there's research. nt

[NanceGreggs]

29. Have the debates been cancelled?

Or do you mean that six of them aren't sufficient for some candidates to explain their positions?

[winter is coming]

30. Oh, you think they'll actually have a chance to rebut each other. That's cute. n/t

[NanceGreggs]

35. So you think the debates ...

... should be cancelled altogether?

That's even cuter!

[winter is coming]

38. No; I think the DNC should relinquish its unprecedented stranglehold on the process. n/t

[NanceGreggs]

44. What's your problem with the way the debates are run?

I'm asking a serious question. What do you want to see done that's different, and why?

[winter is coming]

49. There's no need for the exclusivity rule.

Reducing the number of debates to 6 is draconian, and postponing the first debate until October is incompetent and best and corrupt at worst. Yeah, we had a shit-ton of debates in 2007-2008, but it let people tune in to the process when they were interested. That was smart.

[NanceGreggs]

58. Draconian? Hardly.

The average voter is not a political junkie. They are not going to sit through endless numbers of debates - in fact, most won't watch all six that are scheduled.

Candidates will have plenty of time to make their positions known with six kicks at the can - and if that isn't enough time, I'd suggest they need to hone their communications skills to be precise and to-the-point.

If people are interested in the process, they will find out when debates are scheduled and tune-in, or they'll record them and watch when convenient.

Pretty simple stuff.

[winter is coming]

61. Pretty simplistic, you mean.

The junkies will watch all the debates whenever they are. The people who aren't junkies--whose votes we need--likely won't engage until shortly before it's time for them to vote. I'd rather they have an opportunity to see and hear the candidates for themselves.

You've completely failed to address the issue of exclusivity. There's no reason to restrict our candidates to DNC-sanctioned debates. If someone else wants to host additional debates, perhaps geared to specific issues or states, why should our candidates be penalized for participating?

This all for Hillary's benefit, and it stinks on ice. It's hard enough to get casual voters to turn out because many of them feel the game is rigged, and what the DNC has done with the debates this year feeds right into that.

[NanceGreggs]

65. Ah, there it is ...

"This is all for Hillary's benefit."

That's your real problem, isn't it - your belief that everything is a conspiracy geared towards HRC being the nominee.

[winter is coming]

67. Conspiracy? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the frontrunner benefits

from the changes: not just limiting the debates in the first place, but the change that's taken place since July, to move the Iowa and New Hampshire debates, both originally slated for August/September to much later in the fall. That additional delay doesn't serve the voters or the other candidates, but it prolongs HRC's name-recognition advantage.

I'd be objecting no matter who benefited from this scheme, if for no other reason than it's absolute idiocy to let the GOP get their bullshit out there while we sit on our hands. And I utterly reject the exclusivity clause: candidates should be free to debate when and where they choose, without being penalized by the DNC. Lift the exclusivity clause and let the candidates who want to show up, show up.

[eridani]

105. So why did they have so many more debates in 2007?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_debates,_2008

They had already had EIGHT debates by this time in the cycle!

5.1 April 26, 2007 – Orangeburg, South Carolina, South Carolina State University
5.2 June 3, 2007 - CNN 7:00pm EDT - Goffstown, New Hampshire, Saint Anselm College
5.3 June 28, 2007 - PBS - Washington, D.C., Howard University
5.4 July 12, 2007–Detroit, Michigan
5.5 July 23, 2007 - CNN - Charleston, South Carolina, The Citadel military college
5.6 August 4, 2007 – Chicago, Illinois
5.7 August 7, 2007 – Chicago, Illinois
5.8 August 9, 2007 – Los Angeles, California

The reason is that Clinton is going to do poorly, and DNC prefers to minimize that effect.

[NanceGreggs]

106. I would imagine ...

... that it's been determined that multiple debates eventually hit the point of diminishing returns.

I am much more of a political junkie than the average voter - as you probably are as well. But it's easy to lapse into over-kill, where no one is watching/listening after a certain number of airings. Even the most hard-hitting, truth-telling, undeniably salient point loses its appeal after being repeated over and over - and falls into the ""not this shit again" category with the listening audience.

This idea of Clinton not doing well in debates is just another DU cliche. She does extremely well - whether you want to admit it or not. I was a staunch Obama supporter in 2008 - but there were times during the debates that I knew HRC had gotten her licks in.

I see little point in debates that take place too far in advance of the actual election. People here constantly refer to the "average American's" short attention span. And now those same people are convinced that the "average American" is going to sit through multiple debates more than a year in advance of the general, and will retain everything they've seen/heard. They won't. I think we both know that.

Hill's poll numbers speak for themselves. She is the preferred candidate among the majority of Democrats - and blaming her for being so is ludicrous. And yet there are those who need to believe that there is a vast conspiracy to frame everything to her advantage - dismissing the fact that she HAS the advantage by virtue of the number of her supporters, and not by virtue of Party manipulation.

There are too many posters here who say "let the people speak" - but when the people speak up FOR the candidate they want, and not the candidate certain posters here want, it becomes a conspiracy to shut the "real" people up.

HRC's numbers ARE the numbers; her support IS the support. The fact that some people here don't want to accept that reality is, in the real world, irrelevant.

[eridani]

107. Keeping the Democratic brand in front of voters is all of a sudden bad?

The effects in 2008 were just so gawdawful that we got the presidency and both branches of Congress. We certainly don't want to risk THAT happening again.

Clinton is going to lose the general. She does not have a snowball's chance in hell with alienated voters, who are 63% of the voting population. Why bother to keep Democrats in the media to benefit such losers?

[NanceGreggs]

108. Okey, dokey then.

Clinton is going to lose the general - despite every poll that says the contrary.

Yes, we got the presidency in 2008 - and it was because we had the magical number of debates - not too few, not too many, but just right.

... I'll just back away slowly now - and you can go on and on and on about how the facts don't matter.

[eridani]

109. You just keep on with your ever-shrinking universe of voters

I'll keep on trying to get the alienated ones involved.

[NanceGreggs]

110. Yeah, well, you just do that ...

... sounds good.

[John Poet]

138. So, Hillary can't do nearly as many debates as she did in 2008?

Does she have a health problem we don't know about?

[NanceGreggs]

147. Who said Hillary "can't do as many debates"?

Other than you, that is?

As for her health, HRC released her tax records AND health records on July 31st. Her physician declared her to be in ""excellent physical condition and fit to serve as president of the United States."

If you're prone to throwing RW talking points around, you might want to check to see whether they've already been debunked.

[Arkana]

134. How is the debate format Hillary Clinton's fault?

[winter is coming]

146. Who's announcing and sticking to these unprecedented restrictions?

One of HRC's '08 campaign chairs. Yeah, I'm sure that's just an odd coincidence.

[zentrum]

11. But she's for women and children

…..don'tcha know.

[840high]

16. Yeah - sure Go Bernie

[EEO]

12. She cannot win.

[passiveporcupine]

14. a SLAM?

"I think that history will suggest that that legislation has not worked terribly well,"

It's only a SLAM if you are trying to start a fight, which too many dems seem all too ready to do with other dems.

Sorry, it's a disagreement, in very gentle language. Yes, Bill Clinton was wrong and so was Hillary when she backed it...but Bernie isn't "SLAMMING" anyone.

[LWolf]

20. +1

[artislife]

25. Adverbs are like sucker punches! nt

[senz]

101. You're right, of course. Bernie doesn't "slam" anyone.

I listened to him once a week on the Thom Hartmann program for years talking with all kinds of callers, and he was never, ever unkind or even impatient. That's a pretty amazing guy.

[Zorra]

15. DLC/ThirdWay/NewDemocrat centrists - seriously bad company. nt

[cyberswede]

18. Headline writers need to get a grip. That's not a slam. nt

[YOHABLO]

26. If there is anyone to go after it's Wall Street and the 1% who are avoiding paying taxes.

Who is really cheating the American public, those who rely on the safety net, or the very entity that's robbing the American people blind? And Obama: "I won't second guess President Clinton for signing." Yeah, don't rock the boat.

[Isolato]

27. Damned Skippy

Bernie's not wrong for distinguishing his approach to welfare from his more popular opponent. Anyone who saw Michael Moore's Bowling For Columbine should know full-well what "Workfare" wound up meaning to participants. Minimum wage jobs for single-parent mothers bussed hither, thither, and yon who could not, meanwhile, parent their own children. A first grader shot another first grader -- in his mother's absence -- a taste of the collateral damage of this flawed piece of enabled legislation.

If this doesn't set Bernie apart from Hillary, I'm not sure what will.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

46. And then, of course, the "Workfare" parents were criticized, demonized even,

for failing to be there for their children. Most people aren't interested in the follow-up though. They were convinced those "welfare queens" were living like royalty on the public dime and had to be brought down, never mind the consequences of the "solution."

Honestly, things just seem to be getting worse in so many ways in this country (and the world?) I'm starting to see why some people turn to drugs or alcohol on a full time basis. When it seems like hope is gone, why bother fighting?

My insomnia has been particularly bad lately. Hopefully I'll get a good night's sleep soon and feel less hopeless. Good bye cruel world (hopefully for at least 8 hours!)

[bravenak]

28. Not a slam. It is the truth. Period.

This issue needs to be discussed thoroughly. It was always my position that this was most hurtful to poor blacks because of the lack of jobs in their areas. If you make welfare dependant on a job that does not exist in your area, then you're fucked. They knew at the time that those communities had already been disinvested in, so to me this was a racist nod to the rightwing. Another Sistah Soldjah moment or whatever. A way to beat down those 'Welfare Queens'. This is why I do not like Hillary. She is still proud of it. Proud. Cannot stand it.

[artislife]

39. They just think everyone should be able to do well just by breathing

They don't understand how neighborhoods change, schooling changes, fresh food changes, opportunity changes from area to area. They have no flipping idea. Maybe grandma Rodham knew hunger, but Hillary sure didn't. And it shows.


It is brick upon brick suffocation.

No idea. None.

[bravenak]

40. I agree.

They seem think everybody can do the same things regardless of circumstances. But really, they know these things and do it anyway because they are self righteous in a way. They go all 'white saviour' on us and pat themselves on the back for 'getting us gainfully employed' while we take three buses to the white side of town to work and never see our kids. They do not get it. But they gon learn!!

[artislife]

45. Your people and mine...riding the bus

I flew into LA international to visit my brother. He lived up the coast at that time in Oxnard. He didn't want to pick me up at the airport...yeah...nice, anyway....
I took the bus from the airport to Oxnard and it was filled with minorities going home after working at the airport cleaning, cashiering, whatever

4 hours one way

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Oxnard,+CA/Los+Angeles+International+Airport,+1+World+Way,+Los+Angeles,+CA+90045/@34.1160088,-119.2592838,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m19!4m18!1m5!1m1!1s0x80e84de61325679f:0x598049c0fa5eb645!2m2!1d-119.1770516!2d34.1975048!1m5!1m1!1s0x80c2b0d213b24fb5:0x77a87b57698badf1!2m2!1d-118.40853!2d33.9415889!2m4!5e0!5e1!5e3!8j1438998369!3e3


That kind of bus trip.

[bravenak]

47. Yep. I know the route.

I used to take the Jefferson Bus downtown to the blue line, transfer to the Red line, go all the way up to North Hollywood, then take the Bus the rest of the way to work. I used to just pack a bag and stay with a friend for a few days just so I could sleep. Imagine if I had had my kids at the time? We woulda starved or I'd end up on the Track somewhere on Sunset Blvd or Sepulveda.

[artislife]

48. Here in Seattle

I lived in Renton (as one kindly old lady asked--isn't that where the poor people live?) and would take the bus into Bellevue then switch to get to the eastside of Bellevue for a job.

If I left work ten minutes late, instead of getting home a bit after 7 I would get home at 9:30pm. With nothing to eat from lunch on. No eating at the desk! And as the bus drivers would throw you off the bus if caught eating. And they were always looking in the mirrors.

[bravenak]

50. God! I know that life!

So damn exhausting. I was glad to move back on up here to Alaska and stay put. Life is just so much easier for me here, less competition for resources.
I'll never ever live without a car again, even if I have to get a bucket at an auction.

[SusanCalvin]

56. Again I will harp on empathy!

All one has to do to understand this conversation is look at a bus schedule. Doesn't even require a computer. Looking at car v bus on Google maps? Please.

[bravenak]

59. For real.

Some people just cannot understand this stuff. They can't even imagine how complicated things are for the truly poor. I'm pretty poor, but not that poor. If shit gets too bad I can just go home to my mama and take a spot in her 4-plex. And drive her car. And make her babysit. (Starting to sound REAL GOOD Some people just do not have that luxury.

[SusanCalvin]

60. "They can't even imagine how complicated things are for the truly poor."

So complicated that they have no time (let alone money) to participate in politics and stick up for themselves. To the PTB, that's not a bug, it's a feature.

[bravenak]

62. It was set up this way on purpose.

Welfare reform was just another blow to the already defensless.

[SusanCalvin]

64. I completely agree. Sadly. nt

[artislife]

66. I had a boss

Who said I could never be late. NEVER. It didn't matter that the bus broke down. Take earlier buses to ensure you get to your $10 an hour job. I was running down the hill....yeah the Puget Sound is hill after hill after lake after mountain...because I needed to be sure I made that bus...because...


I slipped on a wet leaf, Japanese maples...and fell down half on the street and half on the curb...so I jammed that shoulder. I couldn't lift that arm for a month before a chiropractor finally got it back into shape.

Still gives me problems.

There was a show or an article...cannot remember...that talked about how they knew who was wealthy and who was a slave in Pompeii. They knew it from the stresses on the bones and shoulders. I have those kind of stresses!

[bravenak]

70. I need to see that show you saw. Or article.

I have trouble in my bone too. The less money they pay you the more demeaning they try to make your life. I noticed at as I got better jobs, I started getting leeway time on showing up to work, more days off, bonuses, benefits. I wish it had been like that from the get go. Minimum wage should be 20.

[SusanCalvin]

75. "The less money they pay you the more demeaning they try to make your life."

That is the simple truth. I think this is a very important conversation.

[senz]

130. I'm just catching up with it now and agree with you that this conversation

is very important. If the people could only rise up -- wisely -- and take the reins. We would need a calm, decent leader, like Bernie, to guide the rebuilding of the structure of American society so that it makes a decent life possible for everyone. We know it's not impossible; some of the Scandinavian countries appear to have done it. How ignorant that we let a mere word, "socialism," stand in the way.

[artislife]

78. Post 77

This is the closest I could find. It is the child and slave though that I remember. Just look down thread a bit.

I saw or read this years ago...

[SusanCalvin]

74. Me too.

If you can recall that show, I would very much like to know.

[artislife]

77. This is the closest thing I could find

It was years ago that I saw or read this but

http://www.ermaktravel.org/Europe/Italy/herculaneum/herculaneum.htm

Another notable body is that of a young teenage girl who died while holding a baby in her arms. Judging by the skeleton shape, the victim never gave birth so it couldn't be her child. Furthermore girl's remains clearly point out to a very harsh life and even malnourishment as a child. This lies in drastic contrast to the bones of the baby she was holding. The baby was well nourished and probably was a child of the owners who probably had the girl as their slave in the household. Apparently the slave girl tried to save master's baby, but they both were buried inside boat's chambers.

[senz]

132. Includes some unfortunate "white" people, too.

Transportation during my late teens and twenties was either walking, taking the bus, or (shudder) hitchhiking. Many memories of shivering in the cold at bus stops, hoping the bus would come soon. I got my first car at age 35 and the thing that most amazed me was the privacy. But I couldn't conceptualize what was happening because, due to events I'm not going to describe here, I was basically in a state of shell-shock. I couldn't think about my situation; all I could do was put one foot in front of the other and keep going. There are probably a lot of people of all colors who do the same. In that state of mind, people can't do anything but survive and suffer.

That's why what you and bravenak are doing here -- analyzing it, putting it into words, connecting the dots, bringing it to life with words that evoke the experience so that others can see it and feel it -- is extremely important. But of course, it needs to be brought out into society so that everyone can see it. I would love to see Bernie Sanders discussing these things because he has the megaphone, and I believe, truly believe, that he cares.

You guys are young, articulate, and intelligent; please keep it going.

[questionseverything]

131. and buses cost money

i have known a few folks that rode their bikes thru the snow to get to their job

[historylovr]

94. I couldn't agree more.

Your post and this whole sub-thread. This law is evil. Of course they knew what they were doing, how they would hurt people already hurting, make their lives just that much more difficult. It's like they took sick, sadistic glee in it, or at the very least shrugged their shoulders over the "collateral damage." Either way, it's disgusting. They should all be ashamed of themselves, not proud.

[bravenak]

102. I hope this comes up in the debates.

Please Bernie, bring it up! Then reveal a plan to mitigate the damage. It will force answers.

[udbcrzy2]

31. BOOM!!!! n/t

[misterhighwasted]

52. BOOM then pfffft. Its all Hillary's Fault!!

Bernie, "I won't be attacking Hillary Clinton". (but I will attack her through her husband's decisions)

Have fun at LU.

[jwirr]

69. He never said he would not talk about her action regarding the issues. That is not attacking.

If we cannot talk issues why don't we just have the coronation now.

[DJ13]

76. If we cannot talk issues why don't we just have the coronation now.

Stop it, you'll get too many Hillary diehards excited.

[SusanCalvin]

79. He will attack her on issues.

If she has claimed them, fair game.

[eridani]

104. Personality before issues, yet again

Sanders is attacking a POLICY that Clinton supported.

[jwirr]

68. From personal experience with Bill's welfare reform - the biggest problem was that there were

no exemptions.

When the bill was passed I was getting welfare in order to stay at home and care of my severely disabled daughter. She is totally disabled and needs one to one care for all life needs. The facility she lives in today gets $3000 a month to take care of her. I once figured what I made an hour on welfare - $.35 an hour.

The crazy bill would have forced me to place her in a very expensive facility so I could go to work. Fortunately I live in a state that had some understanding of the problems and they created a list of exceptions which included me. I took care of her for 45 years on welfare.

All too many bills come out of congress with very little understanding of the real life consequences. Bill Clinton's welfare reform was one of them. There were a lot of people who fell through the cracks because of it.

[SusanCalvin]

80. There you go.

Thanks for this post.

[senz]

97. That must have been incredibly hard.

These things can happen to anyone. If the state hadn't been there to help you, your life would have been a kind of indentured servitude to the facility, and she would have spent her early life with strangers. How could anyone prefer that outcome? Too bad Reagan, and later talk radio, turned "welfare" into such a dirty word.

The society we live in reflects who we are as a people. Unless we lose our democracy and our rights.

[jwirr]

113. And that is even more true today when we have so few good jobs. When you are not hired if you

are over 50. Or because of your skin color. Or when you have served time in prison. The rules need to reflect reality and not the wishes of the greedy. Bill and Hillary need to acknowledge that this idea was a bad one like they finally admitted that too many police and mass incarceration are a direct result of their bad ideas.

For me in hindsight I realize that he seemed very liberal - but he was not in touch with what was really happening to a lot of us. I doubt that they are anymore in touch with us on the bottom than they were then despite the Clinton Foundation. Hopefully they are more in touch with the people over seas that they are trying to help than they were us.

[senz]

125. Well said, jwirr.

I don't think they care what is happening to the American people. If they win, I suspect what will keep them in line is their desire to be well regarded and leave an admirable legacy. So it's not about the people; it's about them.

[Enthusiast]

121. Huge +1!

[oasis]

87. I'll give Bernie credit for "slamming" Hillary with an issue that'll

do very little ,if any, damage to her in the GE.

[senz]

95. Bernie's "slam" was heartfelt, civil, and polite. Which is Bernie.

Now, here's what we're up against with supposed "Hillary supporters" (get ready to laugh or cry):

[senz]

96. Should have said that the location is beautiful San Diego.

[Bongo Prophet]

123. Thanks for bringing us an "anti-Illuminati" libertarian conspiracy author into it...

A big fan of Mark Dice, are you?

Mark Dice is an ass, and it tells me a lot about YOU that you think this proves anything, except that there are poorly informed people out there. We know that. But if you read the comments on his youtube videos, his fans laugh and shout about how ignorance should be punished by making them slaves, taking their right to vote, and other vile things. A progressive solution would emphasize education, not just derision.

[senz]

124. Hey. I had never heard of Mark Dice. The video was an eye-opener for me.

But your accusations against me are rather vile. Thanks for letting me know who you are, Bongo Prophet.

[Bongo Prophet]

126. Sorry if it came out too harsh, senz.

If it was an honest mistake, then we are cool. I think in this heated atmosphere that one of those "man on the street interviews idiots" style things that characterize ANY particular candidate is just throwing gas on a fire that is already too big. Just a few seconds of that video and I suspected what that dude was about, much less when I went to youtube to confirm the bigger picture.
Some nasty stuff.

The more we fight, the less we can converse and understand each other.
I prefer civil debate and discussion, and believe we can achieve that only if we each take responsibility for our own actions.
In that spirit, I apologize for jumping to conclusions as to intent.
Welcome to DU!

[senz]

135. Wow. Apologies are rare online. I'm impressed.

Thanks, Bongo Prophet, for resetting our acquaintanceship. And thanks for the welcome.

[diabeticman]

152. .....

Forget Who Mark Dice is.... I'm sad that we have a country where people aren't even aware of the Bill of Rights to say something like "Hold Up! The Bill of rights? Are you sure? .... ANYTHING LIKE THAT half of these people look like they were not sure what the Bill of Rights are.


This is why we have a clown circus like the GOP and this is why we are stuck at a min wage of $7.25

[senz]

153. Have heard we don't have high school civics classes anymore.

That could explain it. Whoever was behind the move to get rid of these classes is NOT a friend of democracy and the American people.

And...your comment is what I should have said.

[diabeticman]

154. Thank you. My rant was not as good as my wife's who mention the wiping out of civics class as well

as Geography and logical thinking.

[Doctor_J]

111. As anticipated, the hillarians post right wing talking points

to defend the candidate

[jwirr]

114. RW? Poverty? It was the rw her and Bill were dancing to when they passed welfare reform.

[John Poet]

140. Nauseating.

[Enthusiast]

118. I kick and recommend with reservations. I don't think Bernie exactly "slammed" Hillary.

He questioned the wisdom of enacting welfare reform.

But I do think Democrats are far too quick to whither in the face of Republican criticism. We witnessed the same take place when Republicans launched an assault on ACORN.

Reagan's welfare queen bullshit has never been adequately challenged so it continues today.

We have all sorts of unjustified corporate welfare even to fossil fuel companies while they set all time corporate records for profit. The same is true of military spending and the outright pure fucking waste by Iraq War contractors.

Where is the outrage, Democrats, about corporate welfare?

[Amimnoch]

120. blah blah blah... a record of many successes, vs a record of failed positions.

http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Hillary_Clinton_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

vs

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/Bernie_Sanders_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm

So, her record may not be perfect, but it is a record of many successes and a LOT of progress.

His is a record of many attempts, but where exactly has he achieved actual progress??

As I've been saying.. he's the "Ron Paul" of the left.. great ideas, little action or success. Show me the substance.

[navarth]

122. Where's the "SLAM"?

This article's headline is pure flame bait. Now somebody will say "see! I thought your Bernie wouldn't go negative!!!"

I see no slam. Bernie has more class than that. I don't expect to see Sec. Clinton 'slamming' Bernie either, although some of her surrogates have, disgustingly, engaged in weasel talk about him.

I'm surprised at alternet. I expect better quality than this headline. I call bullshit, at least on the headline. Thanks for nothing.

[BlueStateLib]

141. Have a nice day :)

In 1993 President Bill Clinton made the EITC the centerpiece of his strategy to support minimum wage workers, doubling the amount of the credit and creating a small tax credit for very low-income workers without children. The 1990 and 1993 expansions together almost tripled the program’s cost. By 1996, spending on the EITC exceeded all federal and state welfare payments under the Aid to Families with Dependent Children program, and by 1998, it surpassed all expenditures under the SNAP Program. Today, the federal EITC is the largest tax benefit for families with children generally.

"There are 7,000 kids in New Hampshire who have health care because I helped to create the Children's Health Insurance Program."

— Hillary Clinton on Saturday, January 5th, 2008 in a debate in Manchester, N.H.

Clinton is also on solid ground saying that she helped to create SCHIP. Much of the credit for SCHIP usually goes to Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., who shepherded the legislation through a Republican-controlled Congress. But the Clinton campaign has said previously that she used her influence behind the scenes to push for SCHIP, and there is evidence to support that.

Soon after the legislation passed, the New York Times reported, "Participants in the campaign for the health bill both on and off Capitol Hill said the first lady had played a crucial behind-the-scenes role in lining up White House support."

[emsimon33]

145. Clinton was probably the most intelligent president of my lifetime

This is why I feel that he among the presidents who have had one of the most negative impacts on our country, the middle class, the economy, and our representative democracy.

He sold us out and he knew what he was doing.

This I find heartbreaking because he could have been one of the greatest presidents given his intelligence and his ability to make his case to THE PEOPLE. He is a fabulous public speaker.

[daredtowork]

158. This is why I don't support Hillary

She refuses to address this ongoing tragedy, and the fact that cuts continue to be made (usually with broad hints that black people might be benefiting). At the bottom there is the crisis of homelessness, there is a welfare system that psychologically and physically tortures American citizens, and frankly a system that logically makes no sense.

As a potential candidate for President of the United States, Hillary should be laying out a platform on welfare policy. Instead all she has is the same old tired "welfare reform as we know it". She hopes to give incentive for people to work. Blah, blah, blah. If people get on the bad end of the vicious cycle: if they are too physically or mentally ill, if they are too elderly, if they just can't get another job fast enough, then they start to get dragged across the rocks. From there on out they get subjected to a humongous rube goldberg machine where they often have to get to places without a transportation subsidy and make enormous time commitments to appointments and work readiness busywork (to support the poverty industry) while they are supposed to be looking for work. And they inevitably get punished by sliding closer to homelessness no matter what they do. The system is cruel. Yet Hillary will not take a position to fix it or educate the people who are still making kneejerk decisions about it based on stereotypes and racism. Her policy is still "people should work."

That's why even though I'm a woman who wanted to vote for the first female President in my life time, I will be voting for Bernie.