I have every right to criticize the BLM Sanders disruptors

[DerekG]

The BLM activists aren't the only ones who are seeing their communities and society torn apart.

I'm broke, as are many of my friends, while Wall Street continues to carve this country up like a Thanksgiving turkey. (With no impediments from President Obama and the odious Clintons.) And even if my prospects were to change, I doubt I'd bring children into this world, considering the accelerating effects of Climate Change.

I'm scared shitless.

So you know what? I am going to call out those who almost seem intent on sabotaging the most progressive Democratic insurgent since the 80s. I don't even care whether they're agent provocateurs or brainless schmucks, I'm tired of this.

[Paka]

1. I've been looking for a candidate like Bernie since the '60's.

To alienate the very one who is working for you is counter productive. I've fought for civil rights all my life and the idiots that jumped on stage filled with hate and anger are not helping their cause. We need to come together and fight the real injustice not lash out in anger at those who are working for us.

[TheBlackAdder]

76. A FB friend of one talked about throwing a "sheep dog's" bone to distract Sanders until too late.

.


The wanted to ratfuck him until it was too late for him to realize what was going on, and by that time it would be too late to act.


Distract Sanders until it was too late to act on what?


===


These BLM people created their Facebook page the day before. Before that, another FB page one has taked about supporting Sarah Palin. Her Reddit page said to support Sarah Palin and any other woman candidate. Was she acting in a manner to promote Hillary by undermining Bernie Sanders (who was already working on his speaker appointment and his plans... which don't get written overnight)?

Why hasn't Hillary made a statement denouncing this action?



Anyone who thinks that these women caused Sanders to act are delusional.

Sanders was already acting on the matter. It takes time to acquire the talent and perfect the position statement.


I believe these women CO-OPTED the BLM movement for nefarious reasons.


.

[Betty Karlson]

88. One of them seems to have a history of rrooting for Kariboo Barbie.

Does that meet your definition of nefarious?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

2. Hell yes you do. And NO ONE has the moral authority to tell you otherwise.

Anyone who works to get Republicans elected can expect some wrath from liberals. Fuck Republicans and their enablers.

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. Agree with the message, but criticize the tactics? That makes you a "liberal white supremacist".

Can't disagree with your post though.

[jwirr]

124. For me disagreeing with the tactics makes a lot of sense. From the beginning of slavery the white

owners feared the slaves. Nat Turner's name is remembered even today even though his uprising was very small by today's standards. That fear is still present to some extent even though slavery is not in existence. Prejudice and racism are based mostly on fear.

So the tactics of protest are extremely important. In order to gain support for black issues it is extremely important that the actions we take do not encourage the growth of fear but instead encourage people to see the situation (the killing of unarmed black persons by police for petty crimes) as it is and join in the protest.

MLK understood that completely. The marchers in Ferguson MO understood that. What the protest in Seattle was doing IMO is creating fear intentionally or not. It is not a winning proposition.

How many times this last couple of days have we seen the word fear in posts here on DU?

Divided we fall, united we win. And here I am not talking only about this campaign. I am talking about civil rights. We who want the killing and institutional racism must understand how our protests effect people. People we want to become part of our protest.

I took part in Wounded Knee in 72. When I went home to visit my white grandmother she said, "But they will kill us." She grew up in Indian country. The protests reignited her childhood fears of "Indian attacks". She was born in Thayer County Nebraska in 1886. 86 years later she still had those fears. The fears were irrational but they still scared her.

Bernie is correct we can only win this revolution if we are united.

[Comrade Grumpy]

4. Yep. Fuck the saboteurs.

[PatrickforO]

5. You're damned right you do! And I'm with you all the way.

[bigtree]

6. so BLM is to be blamed for the outcome of his campaign?

...why can't they just accept that your concerns outweigh their own?

This approach should persuade them to just get on board the Bernie train and leave all of their troubles behind.

[jeff47]

9. Yes, someone talking about economic reform, climate change and systemic racism

is only concerned with one political campaign.

And I'm the pope.

[bigtree]

10. toot, toot!

...out of the way of the Bernie train!

[EEO]

14. Better than the Hillary train with all its bankers.

[bigtree]

21. okay

...

[840high]

60. Damn right.

[A Simple Game]

71. Well in Hillary's defense her train does have all the luxury cars. Now who can afford a ticket? n/t

[Bubzer]

80. Right!

Still waiting for a stance from her on the TPP.

[CanonRay]

11. My concerns don't outweigh their concerns

by my tactics don't disrupt their meetings. It's their tactics I don't agree with, not their message.

[Bubzer]

81. +1

I'm still not convinced these two protesters where legitimate BLM members.

[senz]

32. Except Bernie is not their enemy. By any stretch of the imagination.

So if they support him, they need not "leave all of their troubles behind."

But I bet you know that.

[AgingAmerican]

41. More likely the outcome of the election

They are making the Democratic party look more like the Tea Party. They will only drive voters away.

Given the choice between Jerry Springerish tea party style Democrats, or the real Tea Party, people will choose the real Tea Party every time.

[cascadiance]

83. You know I think they may have had the opposite effect in motivating Sanders supporters more!

... to support him and come out and speak for him!

Look at what happened since the Washington protest event... A few hours later, there was a record crowd of 15,000 in Seattle coming to see him! And then 24 hours later, we here in Portland almost doubled that size of crowd coming to see him at the Rose Garden here.

I'm betting that there was a few thousand that might have not come out to see him earlier, but made a point to in response to the BS these women tried to pull on Saturday! FAIL on their part in any case in shutting us down!

[BuelahWitch]

96. Indeed! I made my first contribution to him

because of them. True, it wasn't large, but it was something.

[cyberswede]

48. I don't think anyone is saying their concerns outweigh those of BLM activists.

I think the point is that Bernie may be the best hope for ALL Americans. (I said "may," because I don't really know if he is). But it should be ok for people who think he is the best hope to say so.

If Bernie's message isn't resonating with POC, he needs to work on that, because he definitely supports fighting for social justice. Maybe his new press secretary will help.

[mythology]

51. They are certainly expecting their concern and their demanded fix

take priority and outweigh the concerns of others and their fix.

BLM isn't to blame for the eventual outcome of the Sanders campaign. They are to blame for their actions and how those actions may not be the most effective way to get what they want.

[sibelian]

57. "why can't they just accept that your concerns outweigh their own" Just STOP IT.

Get this silly manipulative NONSENSE out of your head. It's just spiteful junk. You are siding with bullies.

[2pooped2pop]

75. substitute BLM train for Bernie Train

"This approach should persuade them to just get on board the Bernie train and leave all of their troubles behind."

The approach of the 3 women who are most likely not even BLM members do not win over anyone and some should reconsider backing those 3

[arcane1]

77. The OP is specifically about the disruptors. It was what, two or thrree people?

Trying to twist the OP into a condemnation of the BLM organization and their cause is pure, 100% dishonesty. Why do you have to be dishonest in this discussion?

I expect better from DU, but I'm always disappointed.

And in case you haven't noticed, a BLM rep works for him now.

[Martin Eden]

89. so arsonists are to be blamed for the fire they start?

They are to be blamed for their own actions and the consequences of those actions.

I'm not referring to the BLM movement; I'm referring to the 3 misguided fools (or rightwing double agents) who took the stage with the intent to sabotage the Sanders campaign. The effect is to drive a wedge between allies on the Left. This is a clear case of divide & concur, benefitting the Republican Party.

To the extent the actions of those 3 disruptors have an impact, the consequences benefit the Republican Party and hurt the causes for which we have all been fighting for all along -- an end to racial discrimination and social/economic injustice.

[Downwinder]

7. i criticized the Willie Horton Ads.

And I criticized the swiftboating of John Kerry.

Why should I not criticize BLM?

[HFRN]

8. that's just so odd, that Hillary isn't defending Bernie on this

I know she's a good person, who knows this isn't fair to Bernie - but I'm surprised she isn't defending him

[Ed Suspicious]

12. Not too surprising.

[BeanMusical]

17. I am shocked, I tell you, shocked!

[restorefreedom]

33. and he defended her today

one of the shows, saying he respects her but they just have different ideas. even said some of the treatment of her appears to be sexist.

total class act.

too bad she is so scared and insulated and above it all that she can't return the favor when he could use it.

i won't forget this on general election day if she is the nominee

[Bubzer]

82. +1

[senz]

38. Good Hillary didn't defend Obama against Muslim charges in 2008.

Instead, she just kinda sort went along with it. I think that was the last straw for me, when it came to Hillary.

[awoke_in_2003]

63. She was too busy

taking her own shots at Obama in 08.

[restorefreedom]

84. jeez. even mccain defended him on that

personal ambition trumps all. civility be dammed.

[840high]

61. imo- her one goal in life is

to be back in the White House. She is not a good person.

[awoke_in_2003]

62. She won't defend him

because she is behind it.

[Betty Karlson]

90. She'll want to wait and see which way the wind blows.

(She ALWAYS does that; she cannot lead, only follow.)

[Catherina]

13. Yeah you do but your white guilt is supposed to make you shut up

Last edited Mon Aug 10, 2015, 01:05 AM - Edit history (1)

and meekly accept the rantings of some very manipulative people sipping on "white tears" trying to knock out the advance of a fast-spreading and dangerous grassroots political movement that's upsetting the political dynasties of the US AND world economic machines against the poor:

Marissa Janae Johnson and Mara Jacqueline Willaford are co-founders of the Black Lives Matter chapter in Seattle that interrupted Bernie Sanders today..

From: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/08/politics/bernie-sanders-black-lives-matter-protesters/index.html

"Sipping on white tears"''- that's most of what you need to know about the co-founder of BLM Seattle who disrupted an important political even celebrating Medicare and Social Security- as if those programs mean so little to US Blacks whose lives matter so much so that neoconservatives and neoliberals who have never cared about social justice can continue walking all over us and waging war against the disenfranchised poor of the world, which by the fucking way includes many Black Americans.

Some brave person please just rip the shirt off that idiot and replace it with one that says "SIPPING ON TEARS OF THE WORLDWIDE POOR".

"Keeping people stirred up against him" (Sanders) -- and --"don't give him a chance" (Sanders)-- and -- "Destroying the enemy completely" (Sanders)

But hah, many of us African Americans aren't falling for this way too obvious bullshit- the dirty race tactics of 2008 meant to divide the populace weren't that long ago- nor are solid Leftists who have serious problems with some things Sanders whitewashes, like the Military Industrial Complex from which he doesn't propose cutting a dime or the ongoing genocide of Palestinians which is near and dear to the hearts of many non-neoliberal POC, but we damn well know the other candidates are much worse on those issues.

Black lives matter but god damnit, ALL LIVES MATTER. Shoot me now as a Black woman for saying that the lives of the millions of Iraqis, Libyans, Yemenis, Guatemalans, etcFuckingC, destroyed (either physically or existentially) matter AS MUCH as the lives of innocent Black people gunned down in the US.

Pay attention to the very sudden interest in the well-being of poor Blacks, the exclusion of other poor, even other oppressed POC, and Fart it off to the divisive dungpile it all came from.

Montel WilliamsVerified account
‏@Montel_Williams 7:44 PM - 8 Aug 2015

Black Lives Matter protesters shut down Sanders event in Seattle - ABSOLUTE INSANITY.

Good God, I swore I'd never post here again but this insanity is too fucking much.

Oh yeah, for added emphasis,

Signed,

An African American Voting US citizen with a god damn longer track on issues affecting Black Americans than haha all these newly found "allies".

[truebrit71]

15. Funny that they don't get after the black people in power...

...you know, like the President, both of his Attorneys General...

But no, let's bully and barge our way into a gathering for a little old white guy that has almost ZERO power...

Makes perfect sense....

[Catherina]

18. Noticed the same thing. And no vigil, no protests in front of the White House?

In front of Congress?

It's so transparent as to be ludicrous= as ludicrous as all the "Bernie supporters" no one fell for anyway who suddenly saw the light" and switched over to what's her name, the wife of the guy suddenly "apologizing" for all his policies that hurt the poor, a disproportionate number of Black lives, SO MUCH.

Makes perfect sense....

[sibelian]

58. "He's old and white and male and stuff! He reminds me of icky things!"

"GASP! You're calling ME a racist? Oh, don't you see the IRONY?"

[MisterP]

20. it's the same sort of "activism" that easily gets very ugly and mobbish

it also gets very reactionary (note all the strands of clicktivist-friendly feminism that just sound like Victorian stereotypes warmed over): it's like the "feminists" using ugly language and bullying to shut down proposals for men's shelters or accusing transwomen of "infiltrating": women's-studies graduate students and people working with women are typically disgusted; it's extremely binary, one-sided, and ... cosseted

and of course it just feeds the actual neckbeards/racists--by proving them right

[hifiguy]

24. I've seen enough of that right here at DU

to choke a horse.

[Turin_C3PO]

102. Serious question

What is a neckbeard and if it has to do with facial/neck hair, why are they singled out? lol.

[MisterP]

120. it's a nickname for someone who says men have it worse in all aspects

and typically turn to their poor dating experience as proof women are all wicked tarts

[Turin_C3PO]

134. Ah I know the type.

The same ones who've tried to use putting on a fedora to pretend they're gentleman, right?

[MisterP]

137. YES THE FEDORAS

and they contaminate real issues that affect the bedonged (fathers robbed by the Duluth Model like my neighbors, men's shelters attacked, sentencing, botched views of rape and abuse that leave women vulnerable) with their crusty internet-fueled bellyaching

[Turin_C3PO]

138. I hate that they'ev tried to co-opt fedoras.

I'm young-ish (31) but have worn one for 12 years now because I simply love the feel of the hat and like the style. I certainly don't feel any more "gentlemanly" or superior to anyone else because of it. It's a shame these MRA douchebags have ruined it.

[MisterP]

139. I'd suggest reading Strauss's "The Game" about this subculture of guys who see

potential mates as basically ... locks to be picked

there's something about the horridness of the book you just can't look away from

[Dr Hobbitstein]

22. I love that picture.

And to those that object: do you really feel that black people are oppressing white people? Seriously?

[senz]

37. No. But intense hatred makes straight paths go crooked.

Righteous anger, on the other hand, gives strength and purpose. There is a difference.

[Skittles]

64. it takes critical thinking skills to see the difference

it has been in SERIOUS shortage lately on DU

[passiveporcupine]

135. I'm not sure it's a critical thinking shortage

I think some people are using it as a cudgel to advance their game by shutting down Sanders with the only real weapon they can find at their disposal right now.

I see them blaming Bernie for attacks to shut him down. Jesus wept!

[romanic]

39. Who said anything about black people oppressing white people?

Were talking about indignant saboteurs with their own agenda fucking up a movement and going after the wrong person. Obviously you haven't got a clue.

[Bubzer]

91. Why would you love that picture?

Do you advocate causing white folks pain and anguish?
Are you one of those people who thinks it acceptable to hide one offense in the shadow of another?
I don't understand why anyone would like what is clearly a racist shirt.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

93. Because black people aren't oppressing white people.

Although, you'd think so listening to a lot of posters here. I find most people who exclaim black people are being racist towards whites are projecting.

[Bubzer]

94. So, then you would excuse one wrong because its not as big as another?

Wrong doesn't change simply because you're on a different side.
Wrong is wrong. Black people are certainly being oppressed. It is definitely the more serious issue... but there is no time where it is okay to display a racist message.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

99. I'd enjoy white tears if I was her, too.

And I'm white. There's a contingent on this site that has completely lost it. So lost in white-privilege, they can't even see the disconnect.

[Bubzer]

103. And you'de still be in the wrong.

Racism can never diminish racism. It can only serve to make it worse. This whole issue dealing with Marissa and Mara and #BowDownBernie exemplifies that.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

107. So those protesting racism are racist.

Got it!

[Bubzer]

111. Wearing a racist shirt is not a valid form of protesting.

It's unfortunately you feel otherwise.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

125. I would agree with you

If she was wearing a racist shirt.

[Bubzer]

126. Well, thats progress at least.

Now perhaps you could explain to me how advocating for the pain and suffering of a segment of the population is not racism?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

128. Pain and suffering?

It's referring to white people being crybabies. Not pain and suffering. Is there a history of white oppression at the hands of black people? No. There is not. Why would you think she was advocating for that? White tears, as a meme, is about crybabies.

[Bubzer]

131. Yes, pain and suffering. That's ussually what causes tears.

A broad-brush statement that lacks exceptions is, by default, inclusive... meaning it doesn't pick where the "White Tears" are coming from.

A real easy way to tell if the shirt is racist is to ask "Would people be offended if the shirt targeted a different group instead".
The answer is a resounding yes. Another great way to tell is "Would I get into trouble with my work's EEO representative if I wore this shirt to work?" Again, a resounding yes!

I can respect that you might not think it's a racist shirt because you think it targets crybabies. I get that.
I just don't agree it's a reasonable view on the shirt.

[AgingAmerican]

127. Protesting racism with racism?

Do you see the disconnect?

[Dr Hobbitstein]

129. I see no racism from her.

[AgingAmerican]

130. Read her shirt

If it ain't racist, what is it?

[L0oniX]

28. Apparently Obama is not on their side or they would be going to him instead of...

blaming some guy who has been for PoC since the first time he got arrested in the 60's. But hey ...people will be playing dumb for the oligarchy's purposes.

[haikugal]

31. I'm glad you're back Catherina...great post! nt

[davidpdx]

54. Thank you for posting this

[BB1]

70. How is she not drinking milk? n/t

[BuelahWitch]

101. I am GLAD you are posting here again! n/t

[brush]

105. Anyone who would wear that shirt . . .

and pose for that photo is clearly an out of control megalomaniac who is intoxicated by the media spotlight and her grasp on power, however briefly, from hijacking the name of the BLM movement.

It won't last long, and if she is being funded that will come out soon enough.

Go Bernie, go Hillary, go whoever the Dem nominee is.

This internecine crap here on DU is so tiring

[BeanMusical]

16. Kick and R

[Maedhros]

19. It's looking more and more like a hit job, less and less like a political movement.

BLM has lost any credibility they may have had.

I will still take a zero-tolerance stance toward police brutality, the police state, and racially-motivated violence in all its forms. But I will assume going forward that BLM is simply a Clinton campaign surrogate, and dismiss their nonsense.

[Hydra]

30. That's really the point

If BLM is more interested in hurting the progressive movement than saving people's lives, then the movement for equal rights and treatment marches right past them.

The Clinton team is seething that this didn't work though, and trying their best to re-legitimize it.

[lark]

34. You know, I'm beginning to wonder what's really going on.

I don't think HRC would do this and don't think she'd be this slick if it was her either. I think this is some Repug plot and they are buying the organizers and the BLM are the dupes. HRC wouldn't be able to buy the organizers like the Repugs could, she doesn't have the Koch billions behind her and they do. Think this is just another RW plot to tear us apart. Why would BLM targeet Bernie who's been on the right side about this, never silent, since before most of BLM were born?

Just a thought.

[bvar22]

47. Hillary might not do this,

...but some of the people working for her would not hesitate,
and cloak it all under "You don't want to know."

[Bubzer]

92. I could believe that.

They're called political operatives for a reason.

[lark]

108. AT this point, with no proof either way.

I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. This is exactly out of Karl Rove's trickly playbook, so leaning in that direction until proven otherwise.

[hifiguy]

23. This is by far the sanest and most worthwhile thread here

on this subject.

[Owl]

25. The disrupters only set back their cause big time.

Totally useless.

[L0oniX]

29. "disrupters" = pro oligarchy tools.

[MissDeeds]

26. I agree

Thanks for your post.

K&R

[backscatter712]

27. I don't think Bernie was hurt by this.

He was seen to have a hell of a lot of patience and sympathy to the BLM cause.

The protesters just came across as belligerent idiots, and they've lost a hell of a lot of sympathy. To the point where they will not be allowed to disrupt next time they try.

[passiveporcupine]

136. Not if you hear Hillary supporters here talk about it.

Yeah...it's Bernie's fault.

[haikugal]

35. Good post DerekG and yes there is a lot that needs to be done and not a lot of time.

Many, many of us out here are scared by what we see and how little is being done to address it.

[shenmue]

36. Keep doing that

[romanic]

40. Damn straight!

I will continue to call out ignorant so-called activists and disruptors who care more about getting 15 minutes of fame rather than care about the cause they claim to fight for. Call me a sell-out, a race traitor, etc...I don't give a damn; I can fight against police brutality, racism, and whatever else without the help of Marissa, whatever her partner's name is, and BLM Seattle.

[NCTraveler]

42. Add the possibility of being killed in a basic traffic stop.

Or being shot because you don't look like the rest of the neighborhood.

[whatchamacallit]

53. We get how totally horrible that is

but that doesn't mean we have to be ok with people foolishly taking down a good progressive ally, and screwing us all in the process.

[Indydem]

43. We have a rift in our party.

It occurred to me today that there is a rift in our party, and it may not be repairable.

Bernie Sanders and his ilk (mostly a group of people who don't understand economics, think that socialism is actually a viable economic system and have a huge chip on their shoulder about anyone who has been more successful than them) are almost entirely concerned with economic issues. They think that income inequality, minimum wage, Wall Street, corporations, etc are the real issues with America, and if they could just get one of "their guys" into office everything would be fine.

The rest of the Democratic Party realizes that making $15 or $1500 an hour doesn't fucking matter if a cop can and will shoot you on the side of the road because they don't like you. BLM is the current embodiment of this issue and I think it is a clarion call for our party to decide who we are going to be.

Basically, to put not to find a point on it, I think we are looking at a division in the party where the "progressives/socialists/communists" are going to fall into the Sanders camp. The rest of America, that is socially liberal and fiscally moderate (or even conservative) is going to end up in the Hillary/Biden/Omalley camp.

If the party wants to be all about fiscal liberalism, Sanders is the man for the job. But America isn't a fiscally liberal country. It never has been. So go with "The Bern" if you want, but you are going to get a republican elected president if he becomes our nominee.

Sanders can't appeal to BLM for the same reason he doesn't appeal to America: he's a one trick pony and we have already decided we don't like that trick.

[Mojorabbit]

45. I am sorry but this is BS

Most polling shows the population is much more liberal on many positions than the politicians in DC.

[Indydem]

98. Fiscally liberal?

Show me this polling?

[davidpdx]

55. Ah, so now in addition to being white supremacist we are dumb

So dumb we have decided to back a candidate that is a one trick pony and could never win.

It is people like you who are divisive. You want to specifically paint people who support Sanders as not part of the Democratic Party, who are out of touch. Sounds like Republican tactics to me. You use the works progressive, socialist, and even communist (for the life of me where that last one came from I don't know. Maybe reading too much about J. Edger Hoover.) to smear the Sanders campaign.

Almost all people who support Sanders also support justice reform. Period.

I am a proud progressive. If you want to smear me for that go ahead. I wear that label on my sleeve.

And I am a hell of a lot smarter than you'll ever be.


Ps-Biden is not running and has given no indication whether he will or not, nor has he said who he will endorse.

[Indydem]

100. I did not call you dumb.

You are ideologically misguided.

You live in a fantasy, that America is just one good man away from a revolution where we will throw off these capitalist shackles and become something more.

America likes it's capitalist "shackles". They like Google and Apple and IBM and GM. They like being the wealthiest country in the world. Economic "progressivism" is a losing equation in this country. Always has been, always will be.

And I assure you, you are not smarter than I am, and you will never be.

[Comrade Grumpy]

104. So, Trump's your man, then?

[TM99]

109. If you have to tell us how much smarter you are son,

then you are not all that and a box of chocolates.

[Indydem]

112. From the post I responded to:

And I am a hell of a lot smarter than you'll ever be.

The insults started with davidpdx who thinks that because he is farther left than I am, he is smarter.

Incorrect.

[TM99]

113. You are still lecturing and pretending

you are smarter than Sanders supporters.

Sorry, totally correct.

Carry on.

[davidpdx]

140. I live in a world where people demand change

It is people like you that are ideologically misguided because you believe that everything will be just fine as along as we go along with the status quo (Clinton or O'Malley) and continue to let have corporations have free rein with politics as usual.

Do you support the Citizen's United ruling? Because if you do you sure as hell do support corporate interests.

Do you support income equality? Because if you don't you sure as hell support corporate interests.

Do you support the right to get an education without having to have mountains of student loans? Because if you don't you sure as hell support corporate interests.

I fully understand you are not a progressive, you a regressive, a Republican lite.

And yes, as far as brains I have you beat by miles.

[stranger81]

56. I do agree there's a tremendous rift in the party right now

that may not be repairable. But it's not the one you think it is.

Keep on shoveling.

[Skittles]

65. BINGO

they're being played like a violin

[LeftOfWest]

67. "Bernie Sander and his ilk"

noted.

okay n/t.

[Babel_17]

73. You heard the echo of the lingo of the McCarthy era?

I thought it might just be me. I was laughing because it was so on the nose.

[Indydem]

95. Ilk is a word.

It means people who think the same.

Get a dictionary.

[Babel_17]

121. Obviosly I know what it means

You should know its historical context, or at least how it's more often than not used as something of a pejorative.

[Babel_17]

72. Joe Biden is now a go to guy for curtailing the police?

I like Joe Biden but he earned a reputation for supporting the old school Democratic notion of law and order, and keeping the streets safe for moms, kids, and the working class. Senator Sanders would look at the bigger picture and see the folly of the prison-industrial complex. Jobs, not jails.

The side of the party behind Senator Sanders is the one most concerned with fundamentally changing the landscape that causes so much misery, sickness, and even death, in this country.

Having the same old coterie of technocrats come in and do more studies, appoint some figureheads, and pass a few toothless laws that just reiterate ones already on the books, won't provide the needed change.

http://www.alternet.org/bernie-sanders-intends-strike-heart-prison-industrial-complex

[Indydem]

97. There is a line.

Having a well funded police force that enforces the laws is not the same as empowering cops to murder civilians without consequence.

The former is good and appropriate; Joe Biden, Hilary Clinton, and others support that effort.

The latter is bad; propped up by systems that allow cops to investigate themselves and prosecutors to make a choice about charging a police officer in a shooting.

If you don't understand the difference between those two things, you are part of the problem.

[Babel_17]

122. If you think Joe Biden would come off well when confronted by BLM ...

You have an admirable level of optimism. I said I like Biden, and I do. But if Senator Sanders can get impugned the way he has then the votes of Senator Biden are an invitation for a ride to hell.

[snagglepuss]

106. Unbelieveable bullsh*t that socialism isn't is viable economic system. One need only

Scandinavian countries or Canada which I might add didn't have the banking crisis that practically destroyed the US economy because US doesn't regulate the banking system as does Canada. The US is in the pockets of Capitalists and wannabe Capitalists who don't want govt regulating anything in the economy because it doesn't serve their interests.

[Indydem]

110. Scandanavia is a capitalist model.

I don't know who informed you to the contrary, but the Nordic Model is not socialism. It is capitalism.

"The Nordic model is described as a system of competitive capitalism combined with a large public sector (roughly 30% of the work force)."

Canada weathered the 2008 crisis not by being more "socialist," but by being the opposite. They have 5 national banks that are basically the only banks. Those banks are, by definition, "too big to fail." and more regulated by the government - which means fewer loans are given to risky borrowers (read low income and minorities).

So yeah, perhaps you should look some things up.

[snagglepuss]

115. Where do you get this nonsense? You seem to be confusing Socialism with Communism.

Democratic Socialism as found in Scandinavia does not prohibit Capitalism, it simply believes that governments are a "countervailing power", that the marketplace is the not the miracle that Adam Smith made it out to be.

[Indydem]

117. Perhaps you don't know or understand what socialism is.

"Socialism is a social and economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy, as well as a political theory and movement that aims at the establishment of such a system."

They are capitalist countries with free market economies.

Yes, they have a large welfare state.

No, they are not socialist.

[snagglepuss]

132. Socialism is a broad term. On its most basic level, it describes systems

in which there is a significant level of public ownership of industries, alongside worker involvement in the means of production but the extent of this varies greatly. Communism involves complete or near-complete public operation, but that's just one form of Socialism.

Moderate Socialism like Democratic Socialism that Bernie espouses focus on creating more equitable distribution of wealth, either through the tax system or some other means.

[MelungeonWoman]

44. Thanks for posting this.

At this point I am just completely over #blm and that's a shame because there was so much potential there for a much needed change. Not really interested in anything else they have to say and hope that someone else will pick up that banner.

[NaturalHigh]

46. Absolutely! BLM's tactics have been mean-spirited and asinine.

[Triana]

49. Exactly. Sanders is our ONLY HOPE of stopping the sinking ship that is the middle class

Best candidate in YEARS.

[Uncle Joe]

50. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, DerekG.

[GitRDun]

52. You can criticize them, they deserve it

the problems start when a person (not necessarily you) extrapolates that criticism to the BLM movement as a whole. There's a difference between a couple misguided kids and the BLM movement as a whole.

Another problem can occur if people do a bad job on outreach and you don't get enough votes to win the election.

It's all fair game..and everything each candidate and their supporters do matters.

[840high]

59. K/R

[John Crock]

66. new movement

Black swift boat lives matter

[John Poet]

68. I don't believe that the Seattle "BLM" protesters

were a fair representation of the #BlackLivesMatter movement or its supporters.

One of them seems to have been a Palin supporter at some point...

Further, the reference to "white liberal racism" is a meme that is often mentioned on right-wing talk radio. I hear it quite a bit--- have to keep up with what the enemy is saying
(although it does lead to a lot of screaming at the radio...)

[Vinca]

69. Great post.

I don't know how many times I've said I'm glad I don't have children. If I were young and starting out in life, I'd definitely consider emigrating to a country that is more friendly to the average person. Republicans don't get it at all. I just read that Cruz thinks wage disparity has something to do with how hard you work when, in fact, it seems the reverse is true: the harder you work, the lower your pay. Bernie seems to be the only candidate that really gets it.

[Babel_17]

74. What was the ultimate intent?

Watching the video shows that the group wanted to compel the crowd to engage in some humiliating behavior. That humiliation would have extended to our entire party. And BLM, by way of association with this group, would have been held to answer for that deranged and dangerous behavior. Thankfully the crowd couldn't be harangued into playing along.

I've nursed some sympathetic thoughts to these young disruptors, but that part of their action looks too carefully reasoned for me to just shrug off.

[valerief]

78. You mean the BLM Infiltrator Activists. Not the real ones. nt

[DanTex]

85. "No impediments from Obama and the odious Clintons"?

Are you kidding? Obama passed the strongest financial regulations since the depression, raised the top tax rate, and passed the most significant safety net legislation since LBJ. And he's just rolled out the most ambitious climate change policies that we've ever seen.

You can criticize whoever you want, and so can the BLM protesters for that matter. But factually you are completely wrong.

[Jamaal510]

141. +1

[IokuA]

86. Unfortunatly the lie that Bernie Sanders has an African American problem is spreading

to people who have no idea about the facts.

reading the comments in this article makes me sad:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/08/blm-activist-who-shut-down-sanders-is-radical-christian-sarah-palin-supporter/

reading through those comments makes me scared for Bernie Sanders, that the lies about him are sticking. We need to fight harder, we need to make people realize Bernie is not against BLM or African Americans.

[olddots]

87. I take back my comment

I was grandstanding about grandstanding =

[Truprogressive85]

114. Instresting

Op stated that blm communities are not the only one seeing their communities being tored apart ?

I would you like to say that to mothers that have lost their sons or daughter due to the racist pigs?

Economic justice is fine but until structural racism is eradicated it won't mean anything.

[Maedhros]

118. A "true" Progressive understands that economic and racial justice are intertwined.

Just ask Ta-Nehisi Coates, Martin Luther King Jr., and Malcolm X.

[Truprogressive85]

119. Funny you mention malcom x huh

The white liberal differs from the white conservative only in one way: the liberal is more deceitful than the conservative. The liberal is more hypocritical than the conservative.

Both want power, but the white liberal is the one who has perfected the art of posing as the Negro’s friend and benefactor; and by winning the friendship, allegiance, and support of the Negro, the white liberal is able to use the Negro as a pawn or tool in this political “football game” that is constantly raging between the white liberals and white conservatives.

Politically the American Negro is nothing but a football and the white liberals control this mentally dead ball through tricks of tokenism: false promises of integration and civil rights. In this profitable game of deceiving and exploiting the politics of the American Negro, those white liberals have the willing cooperation of the Negro civil rights leaders. These “leaders” sell out our people for just a few crumbs of token recognition and token gains. These “leaders” are satisfied with token victories and token progress because they themselves are nothing but token leaders - Malcolm X

[Maedhros]

123. I don't disagree. I've seen plenty of wishy-washy white liberals.

But white liberals, much like black people, are not a monolithic group which behaves in stereotypical ways.

It's quite stupid to pretend that Bernie Sanders is "ignoring" racial violence just because he is talking about education and jobs. In fact, at the rally last night he spoke very directly and passionately about racial justice, and released this platform:

https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

Not only does he recognize the problem, he understands that words mean nothing if not backed by action (something Hillary has yet to learn).

Your animosity toward Bernie is misplaced. Do you want results, or do you just want to complain?

[ejbr]

116. Agent provocateurs or brainless schmucks?

Can't they be both?

[Le Taz Hot]

133. Apparently, my "role" as a white woman

is to sit down, shut up and be screamed at. Fuck that shit.

[Jamaal510]

142. This thread is a strawman.

Last edited Tue Aug 11, 2015, 12:18 AM - Edit history (1)

None of the protestors or anyone who side with the BLM movement said anything whatsoever about being above criticism. What HAS been truly happening is would-be Sanders supporters like myself are getting pushed away the more that we read from people within his camp (such as the "tase them" comments from the Seattle rally), in addition to his lack of a plan on non-economic issues and how he'd work with Congress.
I have tried to hold my tongue, but threads like these make me mad as Hell. I'm sick of seeing people who support our cause getting ran off of DU and getting bullied elsewhere online, and getting accused of being GOP operatives and being told to pipe down and go into a corner. I'm sick of hearing supposed LW radio hosts like Papantonio demonize (not criticize) the movement and be willfully ignorant about the goal of its participants. All the Black community wants is for our voices to be heard and for politicians to not take our votes for granted anymore. Just having an economic platform and promising free college, health care, etc. is not enough and won't stop somebody from catching a bullet by the cops on the streets! If Sanders' supporters think that continuing to act like this and piss off/neglect a key constituency within the party is a winning strategy for the primaries (let alone the GE), they're going to be sorely disappointed next year.


P.S. I can't help but wonder where these types of threads were during the Occupy days, and when people protested Pres. Obama at his events. The calls for protestors to stop it and to not hurt their cause wasn't as loud during those times.