"Interrupting Bernie: Exposing the White Supremacy of the American Left"

[BainsBane]

Change from Within, Writings by Jamie Utt.

You know, I’ve always liked Bernie Sanders. I appreciate that as a U.S. Senator, he has been willing to speak the truth about many important social issues, but he’s also a U.S. Senator, which means that he is only going to be as progressive as his electorate allows him to be.

That said, I’d generally been pretty disappointed with the lack of racial justice analysis in his economic inequality platform as a candidate for president. That is, until a few weeks ago when some phenomenal Black activists at the Netroots Nation Presidential Town Hall forced his hand.

For all of the “this is not the way” sentiment we’re hearing from White progressives, it was the interruption at Netroots (alongside other direct pressure) that led to Bernie’s explicit platform on racial justice. . . .

Because here’s the thing – what’s powerful about these interruptions from Black women is less how it has changed the tone of the Democratic campaigns and more about what they have exposed in the White left.

I see these protests as less about the individual candidates themselves and more about how their White base refuses to center Black lives and Black issues. It’s notable that White Bernie supporters, who consider themselves the most progressive of us all, shouted down and booed Black women who dared to force Blackness into the center of White space.

Because let’s be honest, every Bernie rally is White space.

In watching the over-the-top angry response from White liberals about Bernie being interrupted in Seattle, I can’t help but think of the words of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. on White moderates:

http://changefromwithin.org/2015/08/09/interrupting-bernie-exposing-the-white-supremacy-of-the-american-left/

[mmonk]

1. You say Bernie's participation in direct action didn't matter, no?

[BainsBane]

2. What do you mean, in the 60s?

It's not that it doesn't matter. It doesn't do anything about racism today. The problem today is the epidemic of police killings and the profound racism in American society. We have a current civil rights movement going on right now. I like history. I have a PhD in history, but that doesn't address the current situation in which people are dying. That is what folks are protesting. America now, not the South fifty years ago, but now.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

32. so what are the other candidates doing about it?

words you say aren't enough. Hillary has said a few words. Didn't see her march for Freddie Gray? O'Malley was in Baltimore but got into trouble. Webb silent. At least Bernie got arrested for protesting for civil rights.

[zazen]

63. more women are killed daily by their intimate partners than people killed by police

Why are you ignoring this issue? Is only the violence against POC by strangers important to you, but not intimate partners like that poor woman and her children who were murdered by her batterer (all African American) in Houston this past weekend?

Women murdered by violent partners know them, so it must be "natural" somehow and not worthy of a national movement where we disrupt presidential candidates and storm the stage. Oh, yeah, and there's the beating of a woman by an intimate partner every 7 seconds. Not to mention sexual violence and harassment by intimate and non-intimate partners.

Millions of women of all races in this country are slaughtered by their intimate partners and you behave like this is invisible. Women of color are particularly isolated in battering situations because of community guilt for turning in their partners, who are likely to face greater danger at the hands of police, and because criminal justice may in fact harm the woman herself. They statistically have less of a financial safety net to the degree that can help them safely leave. We won't even get into sex trafficking and pornography.

Where's your outrage about that? Why are you obsessed only with white stranger violence against mostly male African Americans and unwilling to look at how African American males are just as likely to batter as men of any other race? Why are you rendering African American and non POC women's experience invisible?

The most self-righteous human beings I've ever met are white people who want to call out other white people for racism. You are as human and flawed as the rest of us, but your behavior now is outright destructive. I am saddened by the change I see in you. You do not speak for African Americans and you're not God's appointed Jeremiah to lead us out of the wilderness of our supposed pervasive racism. Talk about blindness to your own white privilege. Sadly from someone who once respected you, Zazen

[somna2015]

110. ...

I came out of lurkdom just to thank you for this post.

[zazen]

115. I think she has me on ignore, since I've challenged her elsewhere and get no response

I really appreciated BB's work in the past. She was gone for awhile, and when she came back, I had no idea what had happened.

Some feminists seem to have forgotten the concept of intersectionality. I give. Gotta walk away from the topic for awhile.

Well, glad to have you participating! At 2000-ish posts after at least 10 years, I'm defined as a low-poster myself.

[Aerows]

213. Nailed it.

[arithia]

241. ...really?

Police officers enforce the laws established by our government, which makes them agents of the government. When agents of our government single groups out for disparate treatment, they are by extension cloaking their actions in the mantle of the state.

Intimate partner violence is not state-sanctioned- it is one individual violating another. Fully armed riot cops in tanks may be just as lethal to one person as an abuser, but the difference in terms of scope of power and influence renders them logically incomparable. It's like comparing an alligator to Godzilla. Sure, they are both lizards. Both of em will kill you the individual quite dead. Only one of them is capable of decimating an entire population (yes yes, movie monsters aren't real, but hopefully you get the point).

Black people have already been treated like property by the state. Are you really so confused as to why blacks (or anyone else, for that matter) would resent it happening again in the form of systemic racism in law enforcement, for-profit prisons, the gerrymandering of minority districts and various other voter shenanigans that strip away the power of the black voice?

I'm not entirely sure why you felt the need to insult whites who call out white racism. The power system in the US was constructed around white interests and rights. It is STILL constructed around white interests and rights and lucky are those who are born white, male and straight. You yourself point out that women of color face disproportionate societal problems due to the intersection of racism and sexism... so clearly there is STILL a power gap between ethnic groups and whites have more power than blacks.

You're admitting there is a racism problem and then telling whites, the people with the most political power in the US (and the social group that directly benefits from racist policies and practices), that they are self-righteous for pointing it out in a way you don't like.

[zazen]

244. seriously? systematic male violence against women has less "power and influence" than racist violence?

Thanks for summing up how even today informed people like yourself can be so blind to the historical and cultural ubiquity of male supremacy enforced through violence.

Because it's only 'one individual violating another,' which is usually how each rape and beating and harassment and murder happen, it's a snappy alligator rather than Godzilla.

[arithia]

247. Yes, an individual has less power and influence than a government actor

I see now why that person was ignoring you- your reply is rude and includes personal attacks/assumptive fallacies. Blind? When you make assumptions about "blindness" and the other person's knowledge base, you are falling back on logical fallacy instead of reasoned argument.

When someone beats their intimate partner, they are violating that person's right to safety and security as defined by law. When the law itself is defined in such a way to allow government actors to violate a person's right to safety and security, it's far more problematic. An abuser cannot personally strip you of your rights under the law. A government agent can.

An abuser cannot personally throw you in jail (unless they are a government actor themselves). Due process under the law is something we are all afforded by the 14th amendment, but that right is stripped away through discriminatory practices such as stop and frisk. Skin color is not an indication of criminality, yet it is used by various government agencies to target minority demographics for disparate treatment and prosecution. (See also Sherrif Joe Arpaio and his department's treatment of hispanics for a non-black example. Another can be found in the Indian Adoption Project, which took native children away from their homes without cause or recourse for raising by white families.)

While an abuser can control your freedom through threats and violence, victims of domestic abuse can seek protection from their abusers through government actors and agencies (ie, the police). When it is the police controlling your freedoms through threats and violence, individuals have limited access to resources that can help them escape that threat. They can report it to the agent's superiors and hope they do not simply protect their own, which often the case even in the face of video evidence of abuse. They can sue the government agent/agency and hope that the behavior changes from the top down... and that's frequently *it*.

If you look at the history of women in the US, you can see examples of overreach by government actors- particularly in the faces of suffragettes. Women were locked up against their will in jails and insane asylums because they advocated women's voting rights. While many individuals were opposed to giving women the right to vote when the movement started, it was ultimately the government body preventing them from exercising that right. It was the government locking them up for freedom of speech and assembly. It was the government force feeding them in jails.

Because it was the government doing so, only the government could enact a change. When women were granted the rights to own property, open lines of credit in their name and other important bits of women's lib- it came from the government granting that right. Yes, women fought for those rights just as people fought for an end to slavery. Both groups were chattel under US law, only one still is. (Slavery never really ended. We just freed slaves on paper and then filled our jails with non-whites using soft racism and then forced them to work. It's kinda like how child labor is illegal on the books yet we have 10 year old migrant kids legally picking our veggies.)

What's happening to blacks, latinos, Native Americans, the mentally ill (over half of all killed by the police this year were mentally ill and intimate partner violence disproportionately impacts that group) and other groups lacking political power is abuse on a bigger scale. I'm not talking in terms of numbers. I'm not talking in terms of ubiquity. I'm talking about scale and sphere of influence. I'm talking recourse and opportunities to escape the abuse.

Big Brother has longer arms than a domestic abuser. What color or form Big Brother takes when he's doing the swinging is irrelevant to the fact that it's happening. No one here is trying to downplay the horrors of domestic abuse, but you are in fact trying to downplay another group's trauma by saying it's not as important or widespread as another problem. I hope you are at least on some level cognizant of that fact.

What you are doing is akin to saying violence against women doesn't matter in countries where women are allowed to vote, own property and choose their husbands.

[zazen]

248. racial profiling is no more legal than under response to battering, today, yet it is practiced

You are conflating the biased action of law enforcement acting out of conscious or unconscious racism with the official state position.

That same law enforcement (and magistrates and judges) still act out of conscious and unconscious sexism (and racism) when dealing with violence against women, even though (only recently) the official state position is that they should not. i know they do from my own work with battered women as well as from reports from the field. Beyond law enforcement, the function of systematic male violence against women is that it comprises a society wide power structure that is as murderous as what law enforcement, in our country, is doing.

I'm not going to explain Foucault and other non-state power structures to you because you are doing all sorts of numbers here like using "logical fallacy" when in fact you're engaging in it and accusing me of all sorts of "insulting" behavior, when I'm sedate compared to other people on this board. So this is about something else. Whatever.

However, in a few years or so when you're open to another way of looking at things you might want to check out Carole Pateman on The Sexual Contract (an oldie but goodie) or Catharine MacKinnon's Toward a Feminist Theory of the State to look out how state power and male domination have been conflated in seemingly "neutral" language.

There's also the concept of intersectionality (Patricia Williams has a good book on it I think) that you might want to check out.

Later. Done here.

[Supersedeas]

232. Exactly, urgency today is what is needed, what is demanded

[George II]

25. We keep hearing about his "participation" back in the '60s. What positive decisive things has...

...he done since?

[cali]

38. many. from introducing legislation to speaking out to marching to

going to Florida to highlight the plight of agricultural workers in the tomatoe fields. And much more.

[George II]

217. Ah, the ubiquitous "many".....

....kind of like the Katie Couric question to Sarah Palin, "what newspapers have you read?" Answer, "all of them".

[Aerows]

216. Allow me to list them

I'll hit the highlights, because I don't want to violate copyright SOP on DU.

11. Voted Against the PATRIOT Act: The USA PATRIOT Act was passed in a 98-2 vote in the Senate and a 357-66 vote in the House. Sanders voted against it, and has voted against renewing it every single time. The law has been used to violate the rights of Arab and Muslim Americans, but few know how extensively it has been used in the drug war; from 2009 to 2010, the law was invoked for 3,034 narcotics cases and only 37 terrorism cases.

(RECENT)

15. Strongly Condemned Police Violence Over the Past Year: One criticism of Sanders is that he avoids talking about police violence in favor of talking about the economy. While the economy forms the bulk of his pitch, he has repeatedly condemned police violence during the duration of the Black Lives Matter movement. Here he is in mid-August 2014, before frontrunner Clinton ever spoke about the issue. Here (8/20/14) are (8/24/14) a (8/18/14) few(6/6/2015) more (4/30/2015) examples (6/2015)

(RECENT)

16. Embraced Immigrants When Hillary Clinton Refused To Talk To Them: In 2014, young immigration activists repeatedly tried to talk to Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton to ask her about executive action. While Clinton did not talk to them, Bernie Sanders was not only willing to talk, but agreed with their call for executive action.

(RECENT)

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/22/20_examples_of_bernie_sanders_powerful_record_on_civil_and_human_rights_partner/

[George II]

218. And all the civil rights legislation he introduced?

[Aerows]

219. I'm puzzled by this response

Could you clarify?

[George II]

220. What Civil Righs legislation has he introduced in his 50+ years of fighting racial inequality?

Very little, if any. He's essentially been a legislative hanger-on, devoting his congressional career to voting for bills that others have introduced.

I'll leave it at that.

[Aerows]

221. Hillary Clinton was a Senator

Could you post the Civil Rights legislation that she introduced?

[George II]

223. In her 8 years of service in Congress about the same as Sanders' 26 years, but......

....the cornerstone of her campaign isn't her record on Civil Rights, just her overall record of service to her, OUR, country.

[Aerows]

224. She didn't introduce any Civil Rights bills, then?

I believe that is what you are saying.

[George II]

225. I really don't know, but her "civil rights record" isn't the basis of her campaign for President.

On the other hand I still haven't seen anyone post the list of legislation that Sanders introduced in either the House or the Senate.

I sure hope Toto doesn't pull back Bernie's curtain before the first primary.

[Aerows]

226. "I don't know"

And yet you found it necessary to call out Bernie's record on civil rights.

Mmm, mmm, mmm.

Whatever keeps you going, I suppose.

[George II]

228. Like I said over and over and over again, that's not the basis of her campaign, unlike Sanders.

[artislife]

3. Thank god there isn't any in Hillary's support!

Whew!

[BainsBane]

4. Did you read the OP?

because it specifically says it's not about the candidates but the reactions. In the article it even talks about how protesters are trying to get at Hillary. If Hillary supporters say the same stuff, it is no better, absolutely not. The problem isn't Bernie vs. Hillary, it's white progressives not understanding how urgent the issue is.

[cali]

9. lol. you don't fool most people.

[valerief]

20. My first thought, too.

[Scuba]

123. Most? No, not even many.

[virtualobserver]

11. It has actually been an urgent issue for a long, long time.

The difference now is that now we have clear proof of what has been going on. They cannot hide from the cameras.

[riversedge]

31. I think that was the whole argument to the article. I read it last

night and inserted a bit into a thread. Good article and so true.

[AOR]

54. Took a glance at Jamie Utts websites...

an utter farce of "be the change you wish to see" concentrating on "feelings" to guide a movement. New Age guru garbage of the highest order. Montel Williams, Dr.Phil, Oprah Winfrey snake oil "cures" for social and economic injustice. Any change this capitalist philistine seeks will have the half-life of a mayfly in actual reality. Mystical thinking at its finest.

[leveymg]

136. Sounds like MLK's "white moderate" describes HRC perfectly. Sanders, not so much.

The OP and Utts have their targets mixed up.

[whatchamacallit]

5. Bernie supporters, a good response to

shitty divisive posts like the OP, is this good one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=508006

Just drop this link wherever they pop up. It'll save you lot of time and energy.

[n8dogg83]

6. Yea, now im just waiting for Hillary to be called upon to release her racial justice platform.....

............still waiting...........

[cali]

7. wow. disgusting. think about the name of their action: bow down bernie.

They.assaulted him both physically and verbally.

Supporting that shit in Seattle is indefensible.

[2pooped2pop]

26. yep

misguided or stupid. Not sure which. Bow down, my ass.

[ladjf]

129. That's about it , in a nutshell. Thanks for the clarity. nt

[ibegurpard]

8. gotta get the last few drops from that well don't you?

We all know that whatever Bernie Sanders says or does will not be enough to appease people on DU who have been beating this horse for months. He us speaking out on it and will continue to do so. Whether it speaks to communities of color is for them to decide...not white liberals like you or me.

[BainsBane]

10. The last few drops? Are you kidding?

Police killed another man in Ferguson last night. A state of emergency has been declared. Back people are dying, and you all keep worrying about Bernie's feelings.

America is undergoing revolution right now, and white liberals are arguing that it's about "agitators" and people not paying proper deference to Democrats. The revolution isn't one man's political career, the first woman president, or any other campaign. It's a fight for black lives, and people need to pay attention to what matters. We need to stop being the problem and become part of the solution. This is urgent. Human lives are at stake. It's time to wake up to what's real.

[seveneyes]

14. "Police killed another man in Ferguson last night" - pure FUD

Stopping an armed criminal that is trying to harm innocents doesn't make the cut.

Bernie does not do half truths.

[ibegurpard]

15. Yeah way to deliberately miss my point

You know perfectly well that I'm talking about the bullshit insinuations from you and other CLINTON people on this board that neither Bernie Sanders nor anyone supporting him cares about black people being gunned down indiscriminately or locked up without just cause. You've been using this is a political tool and it's fucking ugly. I'd say you ought to be ashamed of yourself but you're obviously blind enough to your own motivations that you can't even see it.
No one here is going to stop focusing on the horrific abuse being heaped on the black community. And neither will Bernie Sanders. You all wanted him talking about it. He's talking about it. And we're with him 100%.

[ibegurpard]

34. I've read this site a hell of a lot longer than this weekend

And you've been in the vanguard of those pushing the message that none of us care. You've been almost gleeful about pushing the LIES about how white liberals don't give a shit about the problems facing Black America. And what the hell do you know about it anyway? You're self admittedly as white as I am. SHAME!

[2pooped2pop]

29. damn, must have been Bernie's fault.

I think few disagree with the problem of cop on black crime. But bow down Bernie is way out of line to get anything done. U go ahead and get a republican in instead. That will surely help.

unfucking believable.

[DashOneBravo]

64. Police did not kill a man ma'am

He's in the hospital.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Try accuracy

18 year old Tyrone Harris is, as of last check, in the hospital in critical condition and has been charged with 10 counts, They are:

four counts of Assault on Law Enforcement in the First Degree, five counts of Armed Criminal Action, and one count of Discharging or Shooting a Firearm at a Motor vehicle.

He is being held on a $250,000 cash bond and this should outrage you. Since this is a police matter, his family has not been allowed in. For the record he is at Barnes Hospital and according to his father he is a very good friend of the late Michael Brown and a graduate or Normandy HS.

Shame, you could not even go out and find the name!

[Cha]

128. Well said, Bains.. they're so worried about BS's feelings.. this isn't about him.. they can't get

that through their heads.

They wanted President Obama's "feet held to the fire" for 7 years but.. BS? Back off .. he can't hold up to questioning or Anything.. he's perfect. No. he's. not.

[haikugal]

215. Your full of it and beyond patronizing to boot. You can't talk like that and turn around and spout

things about white splaining, white tears, liberal racists etc., get down off your high horse while it still has feet.

Disgusting attempt to twist people's words. You're talking to honest people that care about the issues we've been talking about. You are worse than dishonest...this is ugly. Will you be happy when there is a shooting war and people are dead and buildings on fire? How will that work for the election? We have to come together and have a genuine dialog not this moose crap. Yes, that's a Palin reference.

[Luminous Animal]

12. Glad you noticed that Jaimie Utt is a white man but not before you edited out this unsubstantiated

dig. From before your edit:

"If juries want to hide this and every other article from African American writers, it isn't going to help your campaign's political prospects. There is a very real frustration out there, and hiding from it only keep you in the dark."

[Capt. Obvious]

18. Bwah

That's our Baine.

[cali]

19. lol. glad you pointed that out.

[melman]

21. lolz

[neverforget]

27. Lol! Good catch!

[LittleBlue]

39. Lol

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

49. Nice.

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. That was AWESOME. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

57. boom

[840high]

73. Wham!

[kath]

100. Lol!

[pacalo]

109. Perhaps she deleted it because she didn't want to appear condescending

while teaching us (minions) how to conduct ourselves without alienating others?

[Cha]

130. So? You've never made a mistake and edited something out? Holding yourself up as perfect..?

so all the BS supporters can guffaw and guffaw some more.

Pathetic.

[AllyCat]

133. A Bernie Supporter, but voted to leave it.

[Cha]

135. Leave what? My post? Thanks. They couldn't handle that?

[AllyCat]

139. I've been "attacked" for far worse and been told to stop whining

People need to upgrade their flame suits if a post like yours is problematic.

[Cha]

141. So it was voted to Leave? because I didn't get a big yellow message.. what were

the numbers if you don't mind telling me.

I've seen posts less "problematic" than mine get hidden.. every post is minefield if you're in the alert police sights.

Thanks again, AC

[George II]

144. If that post was alerted, that's pure BS in my book....

An attempt to censor and shut down free thinking. Glad it didn't work.

[Cha]

148. So am I .. wish AC would post results.. but, I guess I'll just have to be

content that I got to say my piece.. even though it wasn't exactly nice because the post I was responding to wasn't nice.. and I didn't get a hide!

YAY!

[AllyCat]

176. 5-2.

Let me see if I can copy results for you.

[AllyCat]

177. ask and you shall receive (when I figure out how to do it!)

On Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:00 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

So? You've never made a mistake and edited something out? Holding yourself up as perfect..?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=510343

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Aug 11, 2015, 09:04 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: not personal.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Broad brush of "all" Bernie Sanders supporters.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an attack on what the person said, not an attack on the person. That's a relevant distinction. El Bryanto
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Cha]

189. Thank you, Ally Cat! Ya did it!

[BainsBane]

179. It's an attempt to distract from the point of the article

I explained why I deleted it, which was due to concerns expressed by a host that the sentence made it Meta. Other than that, there is nothing further to say.

[Cha]

190. I know.. It's their big Gotcha moment that fizzled like a wet

firecracker.

[BainsBane]

162. Actually a host pointed out to me that would be considered Meta

and locked. I removed it at his request.

[Purveyor]

203. Are the 'hosts' making courtesy calls now for all posters before locking or just a 'select' few,

I wonder... eom

[TransitJohn]

13. Where is the daily Bernie invective going after this plays out?

[LynnTheDem]

16. What total bullshit, this "meme".

Bernie Sanders has been working on equality issues, race & gender, for 50-odd years.

Get over yourselves.

[RBInMaine]

35. ABSOLUTELY !! BLM is being radical and alienating its natural allies.

[Cha]

137. NO, they're not.. I'm a natural ally.. my friends are and #BLM is not "alienating" us at all.

[hollowdweller]

17. Martin Luther King would be a republican today.

Also liberals are the real racists because they hook black people on the welfare and government dependency.

I've heard this line many times by republicans.

[Cha]

131. Bullshite.. you have absolutely no clue about MLK.. he wouldn't be a

damn republicon that's for sure.

[ismnotwasm]

22. You know I support that shit in Seattle

I live here. We've had to have federal investigation and oversight of our police force. Because of police brutality and racist shootings. The shooting closest to my heart was the shooting death--in the back-- of an Native American man--a know wood carver, often inebriated person just walking down the street with his headphones on, his little carving knife out, minding his own business. I had known him and his brothers for over 30 years. I still keep in touch with his brother.

This is a very good article, and rather than rejecting because it critiques a politician--no matter how much transforming power that politician may have--simply proves the point of it. Sad.

[artislife]

24. I don't reject it either.

I have lived in and around Seattle for years. The SPD..is racist. What I don't like is that only Bernie supporters need to be reprimanded. Hillary will forget herself and reveal herself as a privileged white woman.
I am Latina but pass as white. .and I know how good I got it.

[ibegurpard]

28. I'm not rejecting the article

I'm rejecting the person who posted it and their motivations.

[Blus4u]

86. ^^^^^this^^^^^

Peace

[George II]

36. Few people know the background behind the racial issues in Seattle - the long-time....

...excessive violence by the police AND the fact that the Department of Justice had to step in to curtail the violence.

I posted this article here several times over the weekend, I wish more people would take time to read it to get a better perspective on the situaition in Seattle.

That Senator Sanders on Saturday called Seattle “one of the most progressive cities in the United States of America” was appalling.

Sure, maybe progressive in some parts of the city, but not everywhere. I don't know of any other major city in the country that has it's police department operating under a Justice Department consent decree over use of force.

There was more to this story than just Sanders' appearance being interrupted.

[Cha]

62. And, I don't think those in the crowd who "turned ugly" would even care if they did know.

Thank you for trying to insert some Seattle Police Dept history into the back story, George.

[Cha]

40. It's a most worthy article, is.. here another one from Washington State Senator, Pramila Jayapal/

"Why Saturday's Bernie Sanders Rally Left Me Feeling Heartbroken"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=509207

Exactly it proves Jamie Utt's point.

[freshwest]

41. Remember when POC blocked the freeway to get attention for the man shot to death in his own car?

That kind of disruption was necessary because all the marches and protests did not get it addressed. So they blocked traffic! It was inconvenient! How dare they do that!

And the issues brought up the other day are REAL ones, the 'forget school, send those kids to that jail school being built;' POC getting long jail terms for what others don't do time; driven out of their own neighborhoods for what may be rich liberals, to areas where there are no jobs for them, their places where they had their own support systems.

It goes on and on. Just because people want to deny it, outright, in the face racism is going on. The beatings and killings continue. For POC it's an emergency, it's a call for 911!

But everyone wants them to wait their turn, when it's possible they won't be around to get their turn. This is what is going on, and they have a right to speak and will do it in a disorderly way if orderly means don't work. They're Democrats, they've been faithful allies, have voted and not been heard.

So yes, they'll go outside the system, they have to do it, just like OWS did, just like unions have had to do, like anti-war people done. And they will hold their party responsible. After all, they are half of it.

[maxsolomon]

23. white progressive here. not a "moderate", thank you.

I'm fine with the bum-rushing of the microphone - BLM is vital even out here in the PNW. Last month, cops killed a black kid for shoplifting beer in Oly because he had a SKATEBOARD.

The 2 women, who are not GOP provocateurs (they really don't have it together enough to pull that off - no one in Seattle does) got to make their point; even after being called racists, the "white moderate" audience largely complied with their demands - a few didn't. So what. Pull that shit in NYC and see how passive everyone is.

But when they said they'd hand the mic back after the minutes of silence, and then reneged, that's when shit went off the rails. It makes it hard to defend their passion, because it looks like they don't know what they wanted.

I have argued with white & asian people who criticize protest tactics, which in Seattle seem to invariably involve blocking our infamously shitty traffic even more - walking down I-5, occupying critical intersections downtown. Aren't you angry about the injustice? Yes, but I need to pick my kids up - daycare closes at 6! Which is a pretty good point.

And, in the PNW, we have ethnic diversity in people shot down by the police: John T. Williams, a Native America woodcarver/homeless man, most significantly. So the Alllivesmatter shit is harder to argue against as well.

[artislife]

88. This is true, too nt

[RBInMaine]

33. Bernie's "space" is AMERICAN space. Enough of these reverse racist attitudes.

Bernie is European-American and Jewish-American. He had family members lost in Holocaust. He is Jewish.

Enough of this "white space" nonsense. Bernie's space is AMERICAN space. These are reversed-racist attitudes.

BLM can hold rallies of its own and protest in peaceful ways. They can make their own "space" without rude, bigoted, and disruptive tactics like they did against Bernie.

[Cha]

37. "Why Saturday's Bernie Sanders Rally Left Me Feeling Heartbroken" by Washington State Senator,

Pramila Jayapal

From a Black Woman who was there..

1) This is one small result of centuries of racism.

2) When the disruption first happened, the crowd (mostly white) turned ugly

3) I don't have any answer on what is "right." Bernie Sanders was a guest in our city—invited by a multiracial coalition to speak on some very important issues. Enormous amounts of work went into yesterday's event and it was so important to talk about preserving and expanding Social Security and Medicare. None of the papers today are covering those issues, because they were eclipsed by what happened. That's not necessarily "wrong"—it just is what it is. But here's what I would have loved to have happen: after the protesters were able to get the mic and say their piece and have the 4.5 minutes of silence for all the black people who have been killed, I would have loved for Bernie Sanders to take the mic and respond.

4) I had not yet endorsed Bernie Sanders (and still have not), although I was incredibly excited about his candidacy

5) Here's what I am trying to deeply think about: How do we call people in even as we call them out?

She explains each and every point at the link.
http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2015/08/09/22671957/guest-editorial-why-saturdays-bernie-sanders-rally-left-me-feeling-heartbroken

A friend just PMed this to me, Bains.. thank you for this article by Jamie Utt

"It’s notable that White Bernie supporters, who consider themselves the most progressive of us all, shouted down and booed Black women who dared to force Blackness into the center of White space."

Same thing State Senator, Pramila Jayapal, was heartbroken about.

[Jetboy]

42. All crowds boo when they don't get to experience what they came for.

Anyone would at a minimum, step back from a person requesting that they 'bow down'. For a lot of people, it's go time right there.

It is not notable at all that a crowd shouted down the people preventing them from doing what they came for. All crowds boo in this situation.

The expectations set for Senator Sanders are impossible for anyone to achieve.

[Bjorn Against]

45. This is exactly right

If you scream at a group of thousands of people and accuse them of being white supremecists you should not be surprised when you get booed, I can 100% guarantee the same thing would happen at a Clinton rally if someone did this. It is unreasonable to expect everybody in a group of thousands to react positively when they are broadly accused of being white supremecists.

[Cha]

60. "All crowds do it.. " That didn't matter to this Black State Senator from Washington. And, I

don't give a shite if "all crowds do it", either.

[Jetboy]

65. Booing, hissing and shouting was the right thing to do.

No reasonable person can expect any crowd to react in any other way after having their event hijaked and being called racists. 'After all that they booed? I'm heartbroken'. Join the club.

[Cha]

66. Yeah, that's why it "turned it ugly"..

[Jetboy]

67. If someone calls people they don't even know white supremecists, there is a fair

chance that an ugly turn isn't far ahead.

[Cha]

70. And, the crowd proved their point.

[dgibby]

82. You DO realize a rep. from BLM

was an invited speaker at that event, and had already spoken, right? Any evidence that he received the same treatment the protesters did?

I seriously doubt that the protesters were being yelled at because they were black or because white people in the crowd didn't care about about BLM. My best guess is that, after waiting in the heat for several hours to hear Bernie speak, they were royally pissed that he didn't get a chance to speak and that he was verbally and physically assaulted, as were some of the organizers of the event. BTW, the ONLY reason they weren't arrested and booked on Federal charges is because Bernie asked the police to leave them alone.

Those women were lucky that crowd WASN'T full of White Supremacists. If it had been, they'd have been dragged down off the stage and beaten senseless (or worse). I grew up in the segregated South. Believe me, those people weren't even close to being W.S.

And another thing, I'm a white southern female, 22 year Navy vet, almost 70 years old, and I have 2 of the most beautiful biracial g.g. nieces you will ever see. They have a wonderful dad, and he treats them like the little princesses they are. My g. niece is very lucky to have such a great man in her life. Do I worry about his and their safety? Only everyday, all day. That's one of the reasons I support BLM in spite of the appalling way a handful of their supporters acted.

[Cha]

132. #BlackLivesMatter. Nobody gets to set conditions on how they choose to protest.

[dgibby]

163. Since you didn't answer the question,

I'm guessing you either didn't know there was a rep. from BLM that was a guest speaker OR you did know it, but the fact that he wasn't confronted by the crowd like the protesters didn't advance your agenda. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Oilwellian]

193. #BowDownBernie. No one gets to say something like that to someone, without pushback n/t

[Jetboy]

127. Booing proved their point and being silent would've proved their point too.

'They were silent, more or less admitting their white supremecy!'

Agree with these fools and it proves their point, disagree with them and it also proves their point.

[artislife]

92. A crowd gathered to hear about Medicare, Social Security

It wasn't his event, he got invited after the fact.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

50. "dared to force Blackness into the center of White space"

What a farce that has become. But please, I hope that that poor woman that was booed who "dared to force Blackness into the center of White space" tries to do it again and again.

If enough people don't realize how much of an asshole she is now they will sooner or later.

[kath]

81. Way to do a really dishonest job of selectively editing what Ms Jayapal wrote.

What she wrote is way, way more nuanced than what YOU are trying to imply.
Here is the complete text of what she wrote under number 2):

2) When the disruption first happened, the crowd (mostly white) turned ugly. It's hard to say what is the chicken or the egg. Some of it may have stemmed from the protesters calling the whole crowd racist. Some of it was from annoyance at the disruption. Some was probably from deep disagreement about tactics in a movement to get attention to an issue. Some was from deep disappointment because people had stood in the hot sun for hours to hear Bernie. Whatever it was, the conversations that ensued—the name calling of white and black people against each other, including some people calling blacks who didn't agree with what was happening racist—were so painful. I was in the speakers tent and Pam Keeley alerted me to two young black girls (Gina Owens grandchildren) who were weeping, they were so scared, so I went over to comfort them. We stood with our arms around each other, and in some small way, that gave me the greatest sense of doing something tangible—to be with people I love, assuring them they would be safe, and that none of us would ever let harm come to them. After the protests, several people came up and wanted to talk. Many were furious—some white people said they no longer support BLM. Others said they do support it but this erodes their support. Some said outrageous things from anger. Others seemed befuddled. Some understood. People will have to work this out for themselves, but as we all do, I hope that we can open our hearts to all of the pain and suffering in the world and be as compassionate and kind as possible to each other so that we can also heal as we learn and listen.

And number 4

4) I had not yet endorsed Bernie Sanders (and still have not), although I was incredibly excited about his candidacy. One of the primary reasons is because I wanted to know more about his stands on race and racism. I asked the campaign for some time to discuss this with him, and he did very graciously make some time for me to have a short conversation with him. What I got from the conversation is that he knows he comes from a very white state and he's a 70+ year old white guy. He knows that running for President, he must now speak to voters who are very different from those in his state. He IS deeply committed to equality on all counts but his primary lens for all of his work—and a HUGELY necessary and not-often-enough-acknowledged lens—is economic. He is a truth-teller on economic issues in a way that no other candidate is. He gets the connection between large corporations, elections, and income inequality. He does understand the problems of the criminal justice system and I fully believe he will work to change that if elected. But the deeper comfort with talking about race and racism is harder. As Mayor of Burlington, early on, he endorsed Jesse Jackson for President and Jackson went on to win the state. He was active in the civil rights movement. But more than that, he is someone who has fought for so many of the threads that connect our movements. He has to learn to talk about racism in that way, to connect his ideas on education, economics, incarceration, and race. As I said when I had the honor of introducing him at his evening rally, he is in a unique position to do so. And we are in a unique moment where we crave that leadership in a presidential campaign.

I told him in my conversation with him that he needed to talk head on about institutional racism—he said he agreed and he would do it in the evening. And he did—to an enormous, cheering crowd of 15,000 people. That's a huge platform for our messages. There's more to do and learn for sure, but is any one of us perfect? The most we can ask for is for someone who listens and cares deeply, who is trustworthy, and who will do what he says. I know I learned a lot in my campaign and I will continue to grow from listening to people's voices. I believe Bernie Sanders is growing too—and I hope (and yes, believe) that we'll look back on this and see his emergence as a leader who brings our movements for economic, racial and social justice together in a powerful way.

You tried to frame this woman's attitude both toward the white people in the crowd and toward Bernie Sanders as being quite negative - which is clearly not the case.

How dishonest.
But, sadly, not surprising.

[Cha]

97. Of course, you're calling someone "dishonest" even though I stated all the points and they were

explained at the link..

Anyone can go to the link and read the whole thing.. but no.. you have to drum up some CT.

[kath]

174. Nice to see that you edited out the name-calling "dishonest like all Sanders supporters" bs this

morning. ( but for some reason I can't get your edits to show up - so paraphrasing your previous nastiness here)

[Cha]

214. Yeah, I decided you were the one who said.. so I shouldn't lump them in with you.

[aikoaiko]

117. So tell me - do you agree with the whole statement

4) I had not yet endorsed Bernie Sanders (and still have not), although I was incredibly excited about his candidacy. One of the primary reasons is because I wanted to know more about his stands on race and racism. I asked the campaign for some time to discuss this with him, and he did very graciously make some time for me to have a short conversation with him. What I got from the conversation is that he knows he comes from a very white state and he's a 70+ year old white guy. He knows that running for President, he must now speak to voters who are very different from those in his state. He IS deeply committed to equality on all counts but his primary lens for all of his work—and a HUGELY necessary and not-often-enough-acknowledged lens—is economic. He is a truth-teller on economic issues in a way that no other candidate is. He gets the connection between large corporations, elections, and income inequality. He does understand the problems of the criminal justice system and I fully believe he will work to change that if elected. But the deeper comfort with talking about race and racism is harder. As Mayor of Burlington, early on, he endorsed Jesse Jackson for President and Jackson went on to win the state. He was active in the civil rights movement. But more than that, he is someone who has fought for so many of the threads that connect our movements. He has to learn to talk about racism in that way, to connect his ideas on education, economics, incarceration, and race. As I said when I had the honor of introducing him at his evening rally, he is in a unique position to do so. And we are in a unique moment where we crave that leadership in a presidential campaign.

[kath]

172. Shhhhhh, don't derail the poster's agenda of wanting to paint the state senator as anti-Bernie by

Going and pasting the woman's full comments here! don't bring facts into it.

[HooptieWagon]

152. If the event is disrupted, the audience has the right to boo.

[artislife]

198. She is an Indian immigrant, not "Black"

From a Black Woman who was there..

Pramila Jayapal
Born in India, Pramila came to the U.S. by herself when she was sixteen to attend Georgetown University. She worked on Wall Street as a financial analysis following graduation and then went on to earn a Master of Business Administration from Northwestern University. After working in the medical equipment industry for a year, she decided to leave the private sector and pursue work in the social justice arena.


I knew it from her name. She actually was very inspired when she spoke at the event that evening just before Simone Sanders came in to speak.

Just to be clear who is who and saying it to whom.

I just wonder how many more Rachel Dozezals there are....

[CharlotteVale]

43. I have zero respect for ANYONE who tells another human being

to "bow down."

[BainsBane]

44. You know, it seems that is exactly what a lot of people are telling Black Lives Matter

That's how it looks to me.

[Bjorn Against]

48. I have marched with Black Lives Matter and many of the people I marched with are supporting Bernie

I have never heard any Bernie supporter tell Black Lives Matter to bow down.

Baines I know you are better than this. You would never accept it if anyone told Hillary to bow down and you should not accept it when Bernie is told to bow down.

It is possible to support Black Lives Matter without supporting the tactics of the people who took over the stage. The vast majority of Black Lives Matter were not involved in the actions in Seattle and not everyone in the group supports their actions. Black Lives Matter is not a monolithic group.

[davidpdx]

74. Sorry Bjorn, I disagree with you

Bain is not "better than this" she is divisive and continues to be divisive. That is her whole shtick. The same goes for other people in this thread who are doing the same thing (who I won't name since they weren't addressed in your post). For someone who claims to be well educated, it is disappointing.

People like this want to tar and feather all progressives as racist while at the same time they are undermining the cause they support. It is politically motivated smear tactics one would expect from Republicans. "You are either with us, or against us." Remember that one?

It is telling that almost all of those who continue to smear progressives are Hillary Clinton supporters.

These are the SAME Clinton supporters who tell Sanders supporters to act like the person they support. It's obvious they DO act a lot like the Clintons and have learned from the 2008 smear machine. Hypocrites......

I had a post up in GDP yesterday asking people to put this behind us. Clearly people like Bain and her buddies want to continue their divisive campaign. Well sorry, you've been called out. I for one won't let this garbage go answered.

[840high]

76. Thank you.

[kath]

83. +1000. thanks for telling it like it is, davidpdx.

[QC]

85. Thank you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=302058&sub=trans

[davidpdx]

90. Interesting revelation

Though it appears no direct consequences other than losing the sock puppet.

Maybe I should go out and draw up some sock puppets since there is no consequence for it.

[m-lekktor]

91. lol wow

[kath]

93. Well, THAT's interesting...

[davidpdx]

96. I would say it's more than interesting

But I'm not going to say those things because we all know where it will lead.

[kath]

101. Then there the two prolific DU posters who many think are the same person...

Interesting stuff sure goes on at DU...

[QC]

102. It's funny when they engage in conversation with one another.

Total mutual admiration society vibe.

Have you ever seen posters get their multiple personae mixed up? It's hilarious when that happens.

[kath]

103. I have heard that it has happened at least once (more?), but unfortunately didn't witness it.

[Prism]

202. There was a glorious one

Back when LGBTers were protesting various actions of President Obama, there was this guy who presented himself as an LGBTer of color. Even though roughly 90% of DU's LGBT community were pissed about various things, he could always be counted on to lambast us, insinuate we were all racist, and other assorted fun whispers.

Guess who a lot of people picked as the True Voice of the LGBT Community as far as they were concerned? Yep. That guy. He was thrown in our faces relentlessly (ironic given contemporary complaints).

Then one night he mixed up his log-ins and started talking about how he was a white straight waiter in Florida. He quickly deleted, but a ton of us saw it.

He's not around anymore, and the people who practically carried him around this board in a litter never mentioned him again.

It was incredibly awesome.

[kath]

204. Well, the pair that I'm thinking of are still here.

Sure would be nice to see them get the boot.

why do the mods let this shit go on and on and on?

[Prism]

210. It's the intended business model

The jury and host systems are more or less designed to make DU as self-running as possible. The owners don't want to babysit. Frankly, I don't blame them, but it does create instances where obvious trolls and disruptors are able to blend into a clique and then go to town lighting matches and flinging charcoal lighter all over the board.

Plus, a good troll wouldn't be super obvious. They'd mouth lots of words and platitudes to seem liberal while ensuring everything remains as divisive as possible.

[m-lekktor]

222. wow.

what a story! lol

[QC]

229. It was hysterical. n/t

[Autumn]

246. Oh I remember when Political Tiger got banned.

That was one righteous ban.

[Autumn]

238. The multiple personae mix ups are hilarious. And then it's back

to the ballet, and the dance continues

[QC]

239. Mahalo, Autumn!

[Autumn]

240. Thank you, friend

[nadinbrzezinski]

192. hmmm isn't that a bannable offense?

well yes, yes it is, unless you are connected I suppose.

[QC]

195. Depends on who does it. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

196. Obviously

I was told by a host on FB that if I wanted my account permanently nuke I needed to do that... the host is one of the protected class.

Indeed some piggies are more equal than others...

[Prism]

199. How is she not banned for that?

Plain evidence of disruption.

People have been nuked for far less.

People who come to discuss issues honestly don't play those games.

[QC]

209. Apparently the rules on sockpuppetry are very situational.

You know, kinda like the rules on heckling public officials.

Oh well, the summer hath a way of making me ponder such issues.

[Prism]

211. Sneaky guy

Next drink's on me.

[m-lekktor]

89. exactly!

[Bjorn Against]

116. Given many of her posts I can see how you feel that way

I however have known Baines long enough on here to know that she does have a good side, she is a better person than she is presenting herself right now. I don't blame you for being upset however, these sorts of posts are very divisive and they are not helping Bains win allies. It really frustrates me because I support both Black Lives Matter and Bernie Sanders and I hate to see people drive a wedge between these groups, it is very destructive to the cause and I believe that what Bains is doing is harming the movement.

[davidpdx]

140. I sincerely hope you can get through to her

It is not just Bains though, but a half dozen to a dozen people.

[Bjorn Against]

142. Yes, she is certainly not the only one.

[Cha]

99. Bains is Awesome.. she's getting information out there about how people feel about this.. and

too many BS supporters can't handle it so they start personally attacking her.

She's a strong woman, though.. she can handle.

[davidpdx]

112. Yes, then when people running their mouth get put on vacation you immortalize them

Oh poor so and so. Anyone who is on vacation deserved it (note: no names were mentioned)

As to the recent posts, what you and Bain are doing is divisive.

I put out a post the other night asking people on BOTH sides to stop this shit.

The issues are starting to be addressed be several campaigns, which I wholeheartedly support. There is a long way to go and I am sure there will be more positive suggestions come from all the campaigns.

Continuing to intentionally taunt supporters of one particular candidate will have consequences in the future (and no that isn't a threat).

Please go ahead and alert and then you and your buddies can do exactly what you claim others are doing to Hillary Clinton supporters.

[kath]

169. This!:

" Yes, then when people running their mouth get put on vacation you immortalize them
Oh poor so and so. Anyone who is on vacation deserved it (note: no names were mentioned)"

When one of them gets a hide, it's always because they were "alert stalked" (they sometimes even go crying to Skinner about it), then the person gets enshrined as a great martyr. Seen it happen multiple times.

[AtomicKitten]

237. The criteria for banning someone is variable too.

Calling people here liberal white supremacists earns some a timeout. Repeating the phrase "cunning stunt" although historically used here numerous times with impunity earns others a pizza delivery. Fairness can only exist with equal treatment under the rules. The only consistency here is the bias of the admin.

[MrMickeysMom]

208. I linked on over to this thread and learned a thing or two tonight...

I can see that things (taunting, baiting) has caused a lot of vitriol foaming out of their mouths at warp speed.

I wondered what causes this kind of hatred and where folks will draw the line at? Clearly, they are worried.

I think Clinton supporters might be worried to the point of desperation to have created this shit.

[davidpdx]

231. Yep, either way they have caused a huge rift among DUers

I really hoped this would blow over in a few days, but it seems like they are intent on continuing to stir shit for a long wile.

[Bjorn Against]

114. So I assume you consider Hillary supporters to be liberal white supremecists as well Cha

If you are OK with this sort of treatment of Bernie supporters then I don't want to hear you complain when Hillary supporters are treated the same way.

[davidpdx]

143. Good luck with getting an answer

Here are two scales to measure by:

[whatchamacallit]

157. They believe there's an implied exemption for Hillary supporters

And Hillary Whites continue their free ride to lecture and shame all non-Hillary Whites, and most ironically of all, any dissenting blacks.

[artislife]

201. Another one? nt

[whatchamacallit]

155. So you support multiple sock puppets?

Or is it just cool for friends?

[kath]

175. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an answer on that.

especially from that person.

[QC]

200. Mahalo, kath!

[kath]

206. back atcha, QC! Awesome post!

So great to see you here!

[QC]

207. Nice to see you as well. You just got alerted.

Stop being such a meaniebooboo!

[kath]

230. Could you please post jury results?

or PM me?
TIA!

[BainsBane]

106. Read that MLK quote

about comments on tactics.

No. I will not denounce the tactics because they make you uncomfortable. The issue is black lives. The issue is not being deferential to Bernie and his supporters. It's doing what has to be done to raise the issue of the killing of black people. That is what matters, not Bernie, not Hillary, not our feelings as white folks, but black lives.

Listen to this interview where the protester talks quite intentionally about the tactics they use. She articulates the purpose quite clearly and interestingly. Also listen to the crowd. It's well worth listening to the whole thirty minutes.

[Bjorn Against]

113. So would it be fair to call you a liberal white supremecist Baines?

Or is it only acceptable to broadbrush Bernie supporters with that term?

Druving a wedge into the Black lives Matter movement and dividing the movement based on candidate choices is extremely destructive to the movement. I worry that people using the type of tactics you are promoting are going to destroy this movement. Many Bernie supporters have participated in Black Lives Matter actions, attacking these people and driving them away is not going to help the movement grow.

[CharlotteVale]

53. Get back to me when they have their own hash tag.

[dgibby]

84. Then you need to get your eyes checked.

I'm a Bernie supporter AND a BLM supporter, but I don't condone the actions of the people who verbally and physically assaulted Bernie, and I suspect there are many other Bernie supporters that feel the same as I do.

I'm guessing that if I told you to bow down, you probably wouldn't be nearly as gracious as Bernie was. After all, he's the reason they weren't hauled off to jail. I'm also guessing you wouldn't take kindly to being called a White Supremacist, either.

You and your fellow travelers use Republican Tea Party talking points to disparage Bernie's supporters. HAVE YOU NO SHAME? My gawd, if you're going to come after us, please get your own material. This is getting really tedious.

[TheFarS1de]

69. This is an issue ...

Even though Sander's stated he is a non practicing Jew , the act of asking someone of Jewish decent to "bow down" is extremely rude and shows that the people making this hash tag have no respect for the person they are attacking . The NRN , while a debacle , got their message out there and in the political spectrum . This latest bout of "protests" in Seattle where counter productive and stank of intimidation tactics .

IMO no one , regardless of their background , should be physically threatened and shouted at like what I saw those 2 women do to Sander's . To add that hash tag at the end of it all was just a spit in the face .

[840high]

75. +1

[cheapdate]

46. Tired of these smears and I have stopped reading

anything that starts out with the obviously attention seeking headline of "white supremacist liberals" or some such. DU is disproportionately loaded with actual civil rights activists and community organizers, many of whom, this one anyway, have respect for Bernie Sanders as one of us -- a person trying to do right.

I've seen what gets labeled as "over-the-top angry response from White liberals about Bernie being interrupted in Seattle". I've been personally called a "racist white liberal" multiple times in the past 48 hours.

Tired of it. This will be my last post on the subject.

[dgibby]

87. Don't let them silence you.

That's what they want, and like you, I'm sick of it. I'm also over sitting back and let people who don't know anything about me define me. That dog won't hunt anymore.

They're attacking Bernie's supporters because they can't attack Bernie. It's all they've got, and it's going to get much, much worse as Bernie gains more and more support. Guess they're getting uneasy about his large turnouts, so they feel they have to amp up the attacks (as if that would stop us. Pathetic!).

[PowerToThePeople]

47. Trashing this third way smear attempt

[Doctor_J]

51. liberals are the real racists. just like Fox news and hate radio

Why do the hillarians continue to insist that they're democrats?

[GitRDun]

58. The phenomena that strikes me most

is the lack of balance in the white view of the events in Seattle.

On the one hand, you have centuries of racism, some progress, but still a very different experience for POC versus whites. You've got two young people, who are living that minority life with all its disadvantages and the added risk of getting killed by police for no reason.

On the other hand, is the fact these two young people interrupted a rally, in a dumb way, to bring light to their circumstance.

The overwhelming visceral response on this discussion board is to condemn the rally interruption.

To me, that's the point. If we white progressives can't change ourselves to really see more, prioritize better, we have no hope of changing the rest of the world, no matter who our candidate is.

[ibegurpard]

59. I think that you're missing

That people are, for the most part, not condemning the movement or the message but the tactics and particularly the target.
And what burns me are the people who are then all over social media trying to reinforce this message that "white liberals" don't give a shit about racism. Yes it is absolutely not on our radar until it's shoved in our face. Yes white privilege isolates many of us from it. But insulting and yelling at people simply causes most of them to shut down and shut you out.

[Cha]

61. Exactly, GitRDun.. well Done. And, they'll keep coming up with excuses why it was okay

to turn so freaking ugly.

[840high]

77. One of those women was groomed

by republicans and is a Palin admirer.

[George II]

167. Throw in the fact that the Seattle police department has been recognized as being...

....violent AND racist, and is currently operating under a Consent Decree from the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice. It is being overseen by a court appointed Police Monitor.

Lots of background here:

"Following a nine-month investigation of the Seattle Police Department ("SPD&quot , in December 2011, DOJ's Civil Rights Division and the United States Attorney's Office for the Western District of Washington found a pattern or practice of excessive force that violates the U.S. Constitution and federal law. The investigation also raised serious concerns that some police practices–particularly those related to pedestrian encounters with police–could result in discriminatory or biased policing.

The City of Seattle did not agree with these findings at that time but, in July 2012, concluded that it would be best to enter into a settlement with DOJ. The settlement is embodied in two documents: a Consent Decree and a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). In this context, the Consent Decree is an agreement between DOJ and a municipality to eliminate unconstitutional policing. The agreement is presented to a federal judge for approval. With the judge’s signature, the document became an order of the Court, enforceable by the Parties and the federal court under the Court's inherent contempt powers. The MOU is a related side agreement between the parties not enforceable by contempt but by the DOJ as any private contract would be. In Seattle, the MOU dealt mainly with the creation of a Civilian Police Commission ("CPC&quot and the Crisis Intervention Committee ("CIC&quot ."


http://www.seattlemonitor.com/s/DOJ_Settlement_Agreement.pdf

http://www.seattlemonitor.com/

[ismnotwasm]

233. Thank you

This point is completely overlooked almost all the time.

[William769]

68. Kick & highly recommended!

[Uncle Joe]

72. Bernie is a liberal, I thought Hillary Clinton was the moderate?

Thanks for the thread, Bainsbane.

[BainsBane]

78. I find it amazing how the only thing that concern many

are labels, as though no issue or principle could possibly matter--not social justice, black lives, racism or anti-racism, but labels. Hillary Clinton is far to the left of many people here on matters of social justice, racism, and diversity, that much is clear.

[Uncle Joe]

79. How is she more to the left than Bernie on the issue of social justice and racism?

[Cha]

121. they do love their labels.

[Uncle Joe]

149. In the OP; Martin Luther King is using a label "White Moderate" so naturally the question becomes

which candidate is liberal and which is moderate?

On every issue Clinton is to the right of Sanders unless you can name one that I'm not aware of.

As Clinton is the "moderate" per MLK's quote in the OP, it more applies to her than to Bernie Sanders.

[bunnies]

182. Were you making that argument to people whining that Bernie isnt a Democrat?

[Cleita]

80. Are you calling Bernie supporters, the same as Hitler loving, Jew hating, Swastika bearing,

gun toting, wife beating, Christian fundamentalist white supremacists? You really need to find a different description if your post is just from ignorance. If it's not from ignorance well, you know it's beyond cruel to associate Jewish Bernie, whose family died in the Holocaust, and his supporters with such a historically heinous label as white supremacist.

[dgibby]

98. Outta the park! Thanks, Cleita.

I grew up with those idiots. Hell, some of them are my relatives. People who try to label other people as White Supremacists either don't know what the hell they're talking about, or they DO know, which puts them beneath my contempt, which is about as low as you can go. Wonder which of these groups Bain belongs in. I hope it's the first, but guess we won't know unless she tells us. Of course, if she's in the second group, she probably wouldn't want to admit it. I know I wouldn't.

[R B Garr]

105. I'm finding it hilarious that the Bernie PUB's do nothing but call people derogatory

names and labels, yet a young AA dares to call you "white supremacist liberals" and you all come unglued.

And no one knows or can tell by looking at Bernie that he is Jewish, so hiding behind that is just hollow browbeating.

[Live and Learn]

107. What is a BUP and where have they benn calling people derogatory names?

I sure haven't seen that.

I don't think anyone on DU should accept being called a 'white supremacist liberal' since it is a vile lie.

[somna2015]

111. " no one knows or can tell by looking at Bernie that he is Jewish"

Holy shit that is some offensive garbage.

[George II]

147. I think you just proved the point that was being made.

[bunnies]

183. Why do you keep posting the same damn thing in thread after thread after thread?

You seem to be quite enjoying throwing that lovely little slur around.

[R B Garr]

185. I quoted the various names people were called, but you obviously missed that part.

I don't blame you for intentionally ignoring the names that are used to malign other good Democrats here simply because they don't grovel and bow down to Bernie. And since you're stalking me, you must have seen that your "concern" was already answered.

Talk about annoying -- it's really annoying to see the slurs that good people are called here on a daily basis by the new-found Bernie fans, so don't preach to me about annoying. bye now

[bunnies]

186. Stalking you?!

Bless your heart. Better luck next time.

[R B Garr]

187. Awww, bless you too. You said, "thread after thread after thread"

which is a bullshit exaggeration, so I thought I'd join the fun. Good times.

[SMC22307]

234. How does a Jewish person look?

And no one knows or can tell by looking at Bernie that he is Jewish, so hiding behind that is just hollow browbeating.

(What the hell am I reading here on DU?!)

[R B Garr]

235. You just echoed what I said. What does a jewish person look like...

You can't tell. Now how hard was that.

Yes, wtf am I reading here on DU....phony trumped up outrage as a way to inoculate Bernie from criticism about the BLM incidents. Pathetic.

[Democat]

236. Is your post satire?

You call people names and then complain about people name calling?

[artislife]

95. The biggest reveal is bains is a white woman

That is what I thought...interesting.


I guess tonight in LA has helped Bernie and BLM a lot. Working together. Pretty cool

[Romulox]

145. Most of those pushing this here are. nt

[BainsBane]

164. The fact is many African American posters

Have had their posts hidden for talking about these subjects. So you can hardly expect their points of view when they have been censored and put on forced time outs. DU is an overwhelmingly white site, and more so all the time.

[Romulox]

165. OK. But your primary focus here has never been AA issues, until it was useful to Hillary to exploit

BLM for political purposes.

[Cleita]

168. ...

[QC]

170. Yes, it's the blatantly opportunistic nature of the sudden support for BLM

that is so irritating.

And then there's the utter inconsistency of people who were outraged that an uppity lesbian and an uppity transwoman dared to heckle the president and first lady suddenly discover the righteousness of heckling. I could post links, but that would be a callout, so I'll refrain. Just search the site for references to Ellen Sturtz and Jennicet Gutiérrez and be ready to chuckle.

[kath]

180. Ding ding ding ding!

[George II]

154. Why do you find that "interesting"?

[artislife]

156. Because in the time I have been here

Most of her posts that I have read have been explaining to "white" Bernie supporters what they are not getting. She posts a lot in the AA group, I had the impression that one should be AA to post in the group as it is a sacred place to step out of the main and into a cozy setting. ( I would post in the Latino group, but we are either too small a demograph or we just don't post to ourselves, but I would assume it would be a place where we could reflect on how certain issues where hitting our people in certain ways.)

That's why. I thought she was AA because of those two things, primarily.

[George II]

158. You thought you should post that "interesting" comment to the DU world.....

.....most likely hoping no one would question it but would draw a conclusion about it.

I don't find anyone's race "interesting" for any reason. They are what they were born to be.

As far as the AA group, I'm a 67-year old white man and I post in the AA group from time to time myself. I find it more friendly than most groups here. People there are much less judgemental.

Summing up, she "explains to white people" and she posts in the AA group, so she must be black.

Good job of profiling.

[artislife]

159. Oh for effs sake. nt

[whatchamacallit]

160. Hillary supporters have been profiling Bernie and his supporters since he announced

This shit OP is exactly that. Profiling Sanders and his supporters as racially insensitive has been the singular focus of DU's Clinton supporters.

[Romulox]

166. Yep. This started way *before* BLM. It's disingenuous to say the least. nt

[artislife]

188. What the man didn't understand

Is that I am a minority.

When AZmom talks about the Latino experience in Arizona, I give her words a lot of weight, because she is LIVING it. I actually gave Bains a lot of weight to her words. I didn't know it was White progressive explaining. I had that from the White older Feminists in 2008, telling me what was important to my brown self and what wasn't. But they knew, yes indeed and they didn't like that I came to a conclusion that I wanted Obama for the nominee. I have been tenderized.

Look at it this way. When someone talks about losing a house to foreclosure, do you listen differently if it is a bank telling you or your friend who is packing up their sh*t before the sheriffs come?

And I am half White so, I love my Irish side, too. And I get to live a pretty good existence because White people just think I am white.

But let me tell you that other minorities see it. I had a AA friend that I worked with. We had such a good time together, same sense of humor, anyway, her mom came in to see where she worked. I met her and we chatted awhile. Later my friend said her mom called me the Mulatto, and I liked it. Why? Because she was saying it from a place of inclusiveness. I used to joke that her mom liked me better than her, and our christmas gifts seemed to reflect just that.

We had some similar experiences. I talked about my Native grandfather growing up on the Rez and my Mexican grandma being the only one to speak English for the family. Of her sitting in the back of the class and never asking questions.

We both cried when my friend's 5 year nephew died of Meningitis after being briefly checked at Children's hospital. She wondered aloud if he had been brought in by 2 White parents and not a single Black mother with 3 other kids in tow, if the staff may have taken more care. We both cried because we had a suspicion that it may have been true.

So yeah, I do try to get a clear picture in my head of who is speaking. So if someone is telling me about Maine politics and they are from Maine, well I give it a lot of weight.

[nadinbrzezinski]

197. And all this time I thought she was a black feminist woman

quite the reveal...

[Live and Learn]

104. The White Supremacy of the American Left???

Good fucking grief. I can't believe you posted that!

I don't believe the 'Left' are the moderates King was speaking of either.

[HooptieWagon]

153. It's a Nation of Islam meme.

That appears to be the source of most of BLMs rhetoric.

[nadinbrzezinski]

194. To be precise, a faction of it

not all of it.. it is a really flat movement.

I knew some of the inside baseball becuase local groups fight all the time

You have your nihilist, anarchist types.

You got the strategic thinkers... who can see beyond this precise exact moment.

You got the feminist old style, and the new style

The Trans group,

it's a mess. At this point I think this flat movement theory is showing the great failures and it will need to be conceded that it works for a short time, but then it breaks apart.

[Cha]

118. Great article.. and properly pissing off those who think they're protecting bernie because

he can't handle it.

They screamed to hold President Obama's feet to the fire for 7 years .. but, don't question BS.. he's off limits doncha know.

Oh and someone thinks they need to point out that you're "white", Bains.. poor thing.

#BlackLivesMatter

[Bjorn Against]

119. So is it OK with you if people start referring to Hillary as a liberal white supremecist Cha?

Or are these sorts of tactics only acceptable to you when they are used against Bernie?

[Cha]

120. You're "white", Bains!

[Bjorn Against]

122. Does that make her a liberal white supremecist?

I am wondering if the people who support broadly using this term against Bernie supporters are OK with it being applied to Clinton supporters as well.

[Cleita]

150. They might as well apply it to President Obama too because that's about

as nonsensical, inaccurate and factless the accusation is.

[Romulox]

146. That makes her a "White Supremacist Liberal", right? nt

[Scuba]

124. I miss the unrec button.

[Skwmom]

125. Oh didn't you know, because of BLM, Bernie can now say BLM without cringing...

If you think it's a coincidence that Bernie Sanders can now say Black Lives Matter without cringing, hires a BLM supporter who's a Black woman, and released a comprehensive racial justice platform that centers Black lives, after public BLM disruptions ... then you're extremely less-than-smart.

https://www.facebook.com/marissa.jenae.johnson

She shared a post from a member of the BLM - Washington DC.

Of course, she praised Clinton as being better than Obama in her interview ( which is posted in General Discussion).

[jfern]

243. The day before the first protest

In lily white Iowa, Sanders said that black men were disproportionately targeted by police. He spoke out against police militarization shortly after the Furgeson incidents a year ago. Sanders didn't need some immature brats to shut him down to know that Black Lives Matter.

[Cha]

126. "Two Black women called for a moment of silence for Mike Brown a year after he was gunned down,

bleeding in the street for 4.5 hours, and White “progressives” shouted, booed, and chanted the name of a White man throughout that moment."

Bains Bane

[Android3.14]

134. I've been thinking of Orwell's "Animal Farm"

"...out from the door of the farmhouse came a long file of pigs, all walking on their hind legs...out came Napoleon himself, majestically upright, casting haughty glances from side to side, and with his dogs gambolling round him."

Where is the demand for justice and equality for all suppressed people?
Hispanics, Acadians, Native Americans, Hawaiians, people of middle eastern backgrounds, etc.
As Orwell said, some animals are more equal than others.

[Cleita]

138. I think the line was that all animals were created equal, but some are more equal than others.

Of course the pigs were at the top of the "equality" structure.

[Android3.14]

171. exactly

Yup, that's the line.

[Lunabell]

151. Pretty suspicious that one of the protesters was a Palin fan

and right wing christian. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2015/08/blm-activist-who-shut-down-sanders-is-radical-christian-sarah-palin-supporter/

[George II]

161. That's bull....according to one person here she is a Farrakhan AND Palin supporter...

....those two just don't mix.

[gordianot]

173. She got caught on Social media and did not wipe it quickly enough.

Her facebook could also have been a false narrative. I am not that curious about her to care. Now that she has a job with Farrakhan maybe she will leave BLM alone to promote their cause without alienating potential allies.

[earthside]

178. "whiteness" and "White supremacy"

What a bunch of crap.

I don't know of any "white" progressives who wouldn't love to see greater action against all kinds of racial discrimination, genuine reform of the justice system --- and economic justice.

To go along with this polarization along skin color lines that this author and BLM are promoting is simply divisive, destructive and counterproductive of the goals that African-Americans and progressive Americans want for this nation.

I understand the frustration with the country's first black U.S. President and his lack of forthrightness and boldness on racial issues -- but the Tea Party and the Repuglicans are the regressives here. Targeting Bernie Sanders and the most progressive elements of the Democratic Party is just plain stupid.

You know the MLK quote is from April 1963 and the civil rights movement had the courageous support of progressives from the north, folks like Bernie Sanders -- and that resulted in the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act. The reform came because of the actions of MLK and hundreds of thousands of African-Americans who understood the 'prize' and knew how to get it. For some of these BLM types to be so ignorant of history is frankly disturbing and bodes ill for any more progress.

And I'm sorry, but to see a 'white' guy like Jamie Utt bandying about terms like "whiteness", "White supremacy" and "White space" is almost creepy.

[Report1212]

181. Calling this white supremacy, wow

White supremacy is hangings, shootings, people's bodies being mutilated, jails being filled with people.

It's not folks who sat out in sun for 2 hours to see one thing getting annoyed when it is hijacked.

The rhetoric from extreme left is out of control.

[Shandris]

191. You might want to listen to exactly how most of us...

...talk to people these days. White supremacy hasn't meant that in a LONG, LONG, LONG time. I'll leave it to others to hammer out exactly what it currently entails, but it no longer means what it always did. You should get used to that, as very few of the words we use now mean what they once did.

[Report1212]

205. "Most" americans dont go around calling everything white supremacy

That's just a fact you're gonna have to deal with the fact that the internet far left isnt reality

[frylock]

227. This particular out of control rhetoric is courtesy of the extreme center.

[WDIM]

212. More division propaganda. Black vs White.

This is what keeps us all down,

Its racist eitherway to judge people based on the color of their skin. Calling Bernie Sanders supporters "white supremist" is racist.

Judge a human by the content of their character. End the cycle of racism. The black community has no better friend than Bernie Sanders and posting racist devisive articles like this should be shamed.

[jfern]

242. MLK wouldn't have considered Sanders a moderate

He would have considered him a key ally on being anti-war, pro-union, helping poor people, and civil rights.

[NaturalHigh]

245. Is this from The Onion?