Hillary and BLM - excellent dialogue

[MaggieD]

Based on the transcript of the dialogue between BLM and HRC I was very impressed with both parties. It was a brutally honest but respectful discussion on both sides. To me, HRC is the only one running that really gets it.

http://www.salon.com/2015/08/18/watch_black_lives_matter_activists_confront_hillary_clinton_you_dont_tell_black_people_what_we_need_to_know/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Excerpt:

HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you–I’m just telling you to tell me.

QUESTION: What I mean to say is– this is and has always been a white problem of violence. It’s not– there’s not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

HILLARY CLINTON: Well if that—

Q: And it’s a conversation to push back—

HILLARY CLINTON: Okay, Okay, I understand what you’re saying—

Q: Respectfully, respectfully—

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems—

Q: That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean. But like what I’m saying is what you just said was a form of victim-blaming. Right you were saying that what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to do to change white hearts—

HILLARY CLINTON: Look I don’t believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources, you change the way systems operate. You’re not going to change every heart. You’re not. But at the end of the day, we could do a whole lot to change some hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them, to live up to their own God-given potential, to live safely without fear of violence in their own communities, to have a decent school, to have a decent house, to have a decent future. So we can do it one of many ways. You can keep the movement going, which you have started, and through it you may actually change some hearts. But if that’s all that happens, we’ll be back here in 10 years having the same conversation. We will not have all of the changes that you deserve to see happen in your lifetime because of your willingness to get out there and talk about this.

(Inaudible)

HILLARY CLINTON: Well I’m ready to get out and do my part in any way that I can.

[BooScout]

1. I watched the clip earlier....

She impressed me. She was respectful, informed and made a lot of good suggestions. She also said she would help any way she could.

[Gman]

2. Excellent response

She obviously gets it and is wanting to lead on the problem when she says we need to change these things. If not we'll be talking again in 10 years.

She gets it and is willing to lead.

It's not about counting how many AA's attend your rally.

[ibegurpard]

12. Oh but counting faces of color was a thing on here

About a month ago. Want me to go find the threads? And it wasn't Bernie Sanders people doing the counting either.

[SMC22307]

72. Wait. So Hillary gets a pass on bad optics?

It's not about counting how many AA's attend your rally.

My goodness, what fickle bunch Hillary supporters are!

[leftofcool]

79. Hillary supporters want BLM to stay on top of her!

We want BLM to give our candidate hell. They should and did and she handled it nicely. She didn't walk away and she didn't say "they are just another group."

[SMC22307]

82. LOL Right, in a brief, pre-arranged meeting.

Give her hell, #BLM!

[SonderWoman]

3. She's 110% correct.

You can't legislate racism away, BUT you can change the laws regarding institutionalized racism. I.e. criminal justice reform, funding minority communities, increasing opportunity, etc.

[6chars]

68. How is that different than Sanders?

[SMC22307]

73. It's not. And it's very economic justice-y.

Imagine!

[cali]

4. absolute bull. And the double standard is quite something.

I love propaganda though. It's funny when it's so exaggerated.

[riversedge]

44. What exactly is the 'double standard' that you mentioned?

[Vattel]

46. It has become self-parody.

[whatchamacallit]

5. Maggie D - Unconstrained by reality

[MoveIt]

63. Yeah

or the rules about hidden posts apparently....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=106348&sub=trans

[bunnies]

6. BLM was not impressed.

Never mind that though.

[MaggieD]

18. They seem more irritated with Bernie Sanders supporters

The only complaint they seem to have about the convo with HRC is that they wanted HER to take responsibility for Bill's policies. I think reasonable people can disagree on whether the mandatory minimum legislation was appropriate for that time. I think no (have always thought no), but HRC is right - "the people" were clamoring for it at the time because of the huge spike in crime during the 80's and early 90's.

Interview with BLM on the convo with HRC starts at the 6:58 mark

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/when-hillary-clinton-met-black-lives-matter-507155523571

[bunnies]

22. I was basing my impression on BLM Bostons twitter feed...

https://twitter.com/BLM_Boston/with_replies

Honestly... I just want ALL of our candidates to get this issue right. The pitting of one side against the other re: who is more concerned about POC infuriates me. I've largely stayed out of the issue because its been turned into such a mud pit. If *at least* on this one issue, it would be nice if Clinton supporters and Sanders supporters could be on the same side.

[MaggieD]

23. Hmmm, okay. I was looking at the interview they did

I agree - all of our candidates should consider this a very, very important issue.

[bunnies]

27. Got it. Ill definitely check out your link when I get home tonight.

Im at work right now.

[Motown_Johnny]

7. .

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/18/how-hillary-let-down-blacklivesmatter.html

^snip^

SWING AND A MISS08.18.153:35 PM ET

How Hillary Let Down #BlackLivesMatter


In the first video, Julius Jones of BLM implores Clinton to explain how she has evolved on issues of race since the 1990s when she supported policies that have led to the mass incarceration of African Americans. “How do you actually feel that is different than before?” he asked. “And what were those mistakes, and how can those mistakes that you’ve made be lessons for all Americans for a moment of reflection on how we treat black people in this country?”

A Clinton staffer then politely interjected that they were already running short on time, and that throngs of other groups were also waiting to speak with the candidate. This did not go over well, and projected a dismissive perspective of the BLM movement before Clinton had a chance to respond. Regardless of whether this was the intent, it’s indicative of a larger problem, which Clinton’s response further highlighted.

Clinton’s stuck to the standard political, unemotional answers that referenced her commitment to civil rights issues and to the concerns of the needy and children. Next she briefly, and uncomfortably, touched upon America’s “original sin” without ever saying slavery, racial oppression, or the near destruction of Native American civilization. Then she transitioned straight into the realities of electoral politics: “I’m trying to put together in a way that I can explain it and I can sell it, because in politics if you can’t explain it and you can’t sell it, it stays on the shelf.”






I am sticking to the 4 paragraph rule here, there is much much more at the link.

[BainsBane]

8. I find it interesting how many who attack Clinton

distort, take out of context, and sometimes outright fabricate. It's as though they know on some level that the truth doesn't fit their agenda.

[ibegurpard]

10. mirror, mirror

[MaggieD]

13. And fall for right wing talking points

[ibegurpard]

9. this actually made me cringe

"Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems— "

And I'm surprised she's not being crucified over it. I wouldn't think she'd deserve it though because I thought her answers were good but she wasn't listening. She was waiting for an opportunity to talk herself. Let's not sell.this as anything more than it was.

[MaggieD]

15. Didn't make me cringe

Both sides were being brutally honest. All to the good.

[ibegurpard]

16. of course it didn't

You're incapable of being unbiased.

[MaggieD]

17. I don't think I am incapable of being unbiased

I think HRC is the best candidate currently running. I think Bernie is the worst.

I'm not crazy about O'Malley because of the kind of policing he brought to Baltimore and MD. Webb is too conservative. And that is about all we have right now. If Warren were running I might rethink my support for HRC based on the campaign message Warren put together. Same for any other candidate that might enter the race in the future.

So, no, just because I have opinions about those already in the race doesn't mean I would not consider any other future candidates. It's very early, still.

[ibegurpard]

20. No I meant you're incapable of seeing any flaw in her

She was no better in this than any other white liberal. She wasn't listening...she was waiting to pounce with her answers. The bit about talking to white people was cringeworthy. She had some good things to say and I'm not going to be spreading what a disaster she was all over the Internet because, just like the rest of us, I believe her heart is in the right place and she still has a lot to learn.

[MaggieD]

21. How would you know that?

As far as I know, you have never met me. So what is your basis for stating what I think?

[frylock]

24. "So what is your basis for stating what I think?"

Your posting history?

[ibegurpard]

28. Yeah that would be it.

[MaggieD]

29. How does my posting history tell you everything I ever think?

This is what floors me about some people here. Somehow you believe that from a few posts you are entitled to pretend you know what I think about everything; who I have ever voted for; what my life is like, etc.

I can't even wrap my head around why ANYONE would think they know those things about a person they do not even know. It's wacky to me.

[frylock]

30. I don't care about any of that..

the topic was your inability to see ANY flaw in your candidate. Your posting history shows that to be the case.

[Jennifer Kay]

47. "I'm not crazy about O'Malley because of the kind of policing he brought to Baltimore and MD"

Do even you know the Clinton policies and what these activists were trying to get her to say?

Some reading for you: http://www.salon.com/2015/04/13/the_clinton_dynastys_horrific_legacy_how_tough_on_crime_politics_built_the_worlds_largest_prison/

Note: I do understand that Bill enacted these policies and not Hillary, although, she is currently accepting money from the private prison industry--so was her evasion of that question a mistake? No, not at all--that's the problem.

It's just like she says oh, drilling in the arctic isn't good--but can't seem to answer questions regarding the XL pipeline.

[MaggieD]

48. You're wrong on all counts

Bill is not Hillary. Hillary is not responsible for his decisions. And Salon's hate filled bullshit rants about Hillary have made them unreadable to me.

Second, there is not a single shred of evidence to show that Hillary has taken a dime of money from for profit prison corps - not a shred. You're getting that talking point from Right wing libertarian, Glen Greenwalds site and he offers not a shred of proof.

[bullwinkle428]

11. Body language and facial expressions are ALWAYS the genuine "tell" when

it comes to any kind of personal interaction. I believe the word "awkward" is a kind way of putting what took place in this situation.

[MaggieD]

14. Brutally honest conversations are difficult

For both sides. But it is exactly what is needed.

[ismnotwasm]

19. I was impressed as well

#BLM was less impressed, but they called the meeting "respectful" it's a good start.

[MaggieD]

25. They called the meeting "a good start" as well

It sounds like their main disappointment was in her not accepting blame for the past based on what Bill did.

[frylock]

26. It was respectful..

nobody was asked to bow down, and nobody was called a white supremacist.

[Bobbie Jo]

31. And nobody

was screaming, TAZE HER! TAZE HER!

[frylock]

32. As I said; respectful.

[Bobbie Jo]

33. Yes. nt

[MaggieD]

34. I believe the term was "white supremicist liberals"

... and it was directed at the crowd. And having worked in extensively in Seattle with liberal activists (including Black activists) I can tell you exactly what they meant by that.

In practice it is white people who consider themselves liberal but perpetuate structural racism through being clueless about the issue of structural racism and their white privilege.

And unfortunately that perfectly describes a lot of the white hipsters in Seattle to a tee.

ETA - another person on my facebook page also familiar with activists in Seattle put it this way: "I think it's a call to accountability for the many ways that white liberals (intentionally or unintentionally) uphold white supremacist systems. We want to think of ourselves as friends to POCs, but not do the hard work of examining and working to counter the ways we benefit from white supremacy."

That fits as well.

[frylock]

36. Actually, it was "white liberal supremacists"

and I don't give a fuck who it was directed at. The contrast between how Sanders has been approached vs how Clinton was approached is glaring, and I don't expect you to ever acknowledge that.

[ibegurpard]

37. She won't

And it's not important. The important thing is that it's being talked about.

[MaggieD]

38. The contrast seems appropriate

There is a reason the approach turned out differently. Two reasons, actually:

1. He doesn't get it and it shows and he certainly wasn't jumping over himself to listen to them

2. His supporters and their actions and comments

[frylock]

42. same shit, different day.

[George II]

62. No, the reference was that the Seattle crowd was ACTING like "white supremacist liberals".

And Clinton searched them out after her appearance, she didn't stand back with a "deer in the headlights" look on her face, like Sanders did, and she didn't say "if you want me to leave I will".

[ismnotwasm]

67. Exactly !

Sitting in Seattle right now.

[Jennifer Kay]

35. Hold on, so you think she gets it?

HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you–I’m just telling you to tell me.

QUESTION: What I mean to say is– this is and has always been a white problem of violence. It’s not– there’s not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

HILLARY CLINTON: Well if that—

Q: And it’s a conversation to push back—

HILLARY CLINTON: Okay, Okay, I understand what you’re saying—

Q: Respectfully, respectfully—

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems—

Q: That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean. But like what I’m saying is what you just said was a form of victim-blaming. Right you were saying that what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to do to change white hearts—

She obviously does NOT get it. Nor did she respond to the implications of the policies they brought up. Moreover, she was insanely condescending and degrading. This is absolutely disgusting.

[MaggieD]

40. I think she does get it.....

I think she gave them good advice - goodness knows she has been in the position to try to change hearts AND change policy. And I think she listened, and I think she accepted that it's up to them and said how can I help?

[okasha]

43. Tch. And there you were, in the Hillary Clinton group,

claiming to be a Hillary supporter.

[Jennifer Kay]

45. wahh wahh

obviously you didn't see that I clearly stated (on more than one occasion) that she is my second choice. The reasons why she is not my first choice are:

1. Too close to Wall Street
2. Paid speeches at banks
3. Love for fracking and oil
4. Receiving money from private prisons
5. Not admitting to institutional racism that the Clinton policies helped to perpetuate

Please, stop whining about me being critical of Hillary and go do something positive for her campaign.

[okasha]

49. Obviously you "mispoke"

when you so described yourself.

Enjoy your stay here.

[misterhighwasted]

54. Hey Ya Jen Kay!!!

I haven't read one single post of your that tells me you support HRC at all.
zero posts. z e r o

[George II]

57. From your posts earlier today:

Didn't you say this:

"22. AGAIN, read my posts, I have stated time and time again that I DO SUPPORT HER."

Or this:

"25. Yeah, I saw that, and ONCE AGAIN, I do support her."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110715785#post22

[okasha]

69. How about we introduce a bit of reality here?

(You might want to take a little preventive Benadryl first.)

1.Hillary called out Wall Street CEO's, hedge fund managers and their ilk in her opening campaign speech. I'm sure you can find a vid on YouTube.

2.She should give free speeches? Why? Do you work for free? Will you tell your boss tomorrow you just can't ethically take money for your work because Hillary got a pay check?
3. You seem to be unaware of the clean energy planks in Hillary's platform. Suggest you read them. Meantime, note that she has called for an end to offshore drilling in the Arctic and elsewhere.

4. Produce proof.

5. She's spoken out on those issues many times.

[leftofcool]

80. Please supply links to your accusations

[George II]

56. How is that "NOT getting it"? And I thought she was very understanding and compassionate....

...to characterize it as "disgusting" is completely off base.

Aren't you the person who earlier today said you were a Clinton supporter? Really? Just who are you?

[oasis]

39. "Eww, Hillary was sooo unemotional", some say. An impromptu

meeting she agreed to squeeze in between other commitments, and she's supposed to deliver like a William Jennings Bryan. Gimme a freakin break!

[hrmjustin]

41. I think she did well. Good to see you Maggie.

[Adrahil]

50. She handled like like a President. nt

[FloridaBlues]

51. I'm curious how did Bernie vote on the crime bill I think in 1996 ?

[George II]

58. He voted FOR it.

[George II]

52. I saw the video a few times today, totally different from the first (media) accounts, which....

....said that it was contentious. I'm really glad the video was released. Once again it shows that Hillary Clinton is a strong, decisive, and principled leader.

Now let's see the usual cliches, labels, and criticism of her.

[MaggieD]

55. Yes it's quite different than the media filtered portrayal

I got the same feeling watching it that you describe.

[Cha]

66. More of the US "media" trying to bring down the front runner.. specifically Hillary Clinton.

[Jane Austin]

53. But if you watched the video

you'd see that her body language was terrible. She was leaning back away from the BLM representative with her head tilted back so that when she spoke she was looking down her nose at him.

She also gesticulated at face level which looked odd and she repeatedly pushed her closed fist at the representative as if she was pointing, but with her pointing finger inside her fist.

I don't know anyone who like to be punched at like that. It's like being a little kid and having an adult scold you.

If Secy Clinton is our candidate, I sure hope she improves her body language, because what she's doing now is very negative.

[okasha]

70. Oh good grief.

Her head was tilted back because she was maintaining eye contact with a gentleman several inches taller than she is. How do you "look down your nose" at someone who's 5-6 inches taller than you are?

I don't think I'll bother with the rest.

[Jane Austin]

76. You're probably right about that.

I was watching her body language, not him.

[Bonobo]

77. She filibustered him at the end. It was NOT a dialog.

She victim-blamed, she whites plainer, she dismissed, she filibustered.

"If THAT'S your attitude, I'll only talk to white people!"

Oh and don't forget the oh so fake bobble head which showed anything EXCEPT actually listening.

If you can't see it, then you have problems with either social communications and empathy or honesty.

I have to say it will entertain me for a long time to come though.

She is a fake and a very mean one too.

[MoveIt]

81. Just watched it again and that "only talk to white people" bit was the low point

Also, I highly recommend this morning's segment on democracynow.org where two of the activists from that event discussed their reactions and they were really fair I think.

One thing struck me was they said they got her to react from an emotional and defensive place and they felt glad to have been able to get her to perhaps have some self-reflection. That's about as charitable a take as you can have about being told "I'll only talk to white people" about this.

See/Listen to what two of the BLM activists actually thought about this exchange, or just accept the OP's simplistic interpretation.

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/8/19/stream

edited to add: Did anyone also notice her little repeated dig toward Bernie when she falsely claimed that there are "some who only care about economic justice" or some such twaddle?

[Juicy_Bellows]

84. Yeah she got a baby jab in there.

I think a lot of people either didn't watch the entire video or are about as genuine as faux leather.

[Juicy_Bellows]

83. I'll only talk to white people about it.

Funny how her supporters somehow missed that. That's a giraffe sized gaffe in my opinion. Condescending as hell. Media seems to have ignored it as well.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

59. They shouldn't have had a dialogue. Hillary should have just listened.

Also, I didn't notice her apologizing. Did I miss her apology?

[MaggieD]

60. They asked her questions

[DisgustipatedinCA]

64. She should have just listened. I do believe Sanders received that prescription from your camp.

[NCTraveler]

75. She should have not answered questions.

Getting better by the minute.

[Thinkingabout]

61. I think both HRC and BLM gained in the meeting. This would make the meeting a success. This

is something which needs to be worked together to accomplish.

[Cha]

65. Change Laws, Change Resources, Change the System! This is great.. talking with #BlackLivesMatter!

Hillary will do this.. thanks Maggie.

[NCTraveler]

71. I think that is debatable.

Unfortunately, all of the ops I'm seeing on the topic are pretty offensive. I appreciate how you stated your case without offensive call outs. That at least allows for an honest debate.

[MaggieD]

74. Thank you - I try

Sometimes I fail, but that is my intention.

[ericson00]

78. but I thought she's a "bad campaigner" yet she can actually go head to head

with these guys and NOT get her mic stolen