Hillary and BLM - excellent dialogue

She impressed me. She was respectful, informed and made a lot of good suggestions. She also said she would help any way she could.

She obviously gets it and is wanting to lead on the problem when she says we need to change these things. If not we'll be talking again in 10 years.

She gets it and is willing to lead.

It's not about counting how many AA's attend your rally.

About a month ago. Want me to go find the threads? And it wasn't Bernie Sanders people doing the counting either.

My goodness, what fickle bunch Hillary supporters are!

We want BLM to give our candidate hell. They should and did and she handled it nicely. She didn't walk away and she didn't say "they are just another group."

Give her hell, #BLM!

You can't legislate racism away, BUT you can change the laws regarding institutionalized racism. I.e. criminal justice reform, funding minority communities, increasing opportunity, etc.

Imagine!

I love propaganda though. It's funny when it's so exaggerated.

or the rules about hidden posts apparently....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=106348&sub=trans

Never mind that though.

The only complaint they seem to have about the convo with HRC is that they wanted HER to take responsibility for Bill's policies. I think reasonable people can disagree on whether the mandatory minimum legislation was appropriate for that time. I think no (have always thought no), but HRC is right - "the people" were clamoring for it at the time because of the huge spike in crime during the 80's and early 90's.

Interview with BLM on the convo with HRC starts at the 6:58 mark

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/watch/when-hillary-clinton-met-black-lives-matter-507155523571

https://twitter.com/BLM_Boston/with_replies

Honestly... I just want ALL of our candidates to get this issue right. The pitting of one side against the other re: who is more concerned about POC infuriates me. I've largely stayed out of the issue because its been turned into such a mud pit. If *at least* on this one issue, it would be nice if Clinton supporters and Sanders supporters could be on the same side.

I agree - all of our candidates should consider this a very, very important issue.

Im at work right now.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/18/how-hillary-let-down-blacklivesmatter.html

^snip^

SWING AND A MISS08.18.153:35 PM ET

How Hillary Let Down #BlackLivesMatter


In the first video, Julius Jones of BLM implores Clinton to explain how she has evolved on issues of race since the 1990s when she supported policies that have led to the mass incarceration of African Americans. “How do you actually feel that is different than before?” he asked. “And what were those mistakes, and how can those mistakes that you’ve made be lessons for all Americans for a moment of reflection on how we treat black people in this country?”



A Clinton staffer then politely interjected that they were already running short on time, and that throngs of other groups were also waiting to speak with the candidate. This did not go over well, and projected a dismissive perspective of the BLM movement before Clinton had a chance to respond. Regardless of whether this was the intent, it’s indicative of a larger problem, which Clinton’s response further highlighted.

Clinton’s stuck to the standard political, unemotional answers that referenced her commitment to civil rights issues and to the concerns of the needy and children. Next she briefly, and uncomfortably, touched upon America’s “original sin” without ever saying slavery, racial oppression, or the near destruction of Native American civilization. Then she transitioned straight into the realities of electoral politics: “I’m trying to put together in a way that I can explain it and I can sell it, because in politics if you can’t explain it and you can’t sell it, it stays on the shelf.”






I am sticking to the 4 paragraph rule here, there is much much more at the link.

distort, take out of context, and sometimes outright fabricate. It's as though they know on some level that the truth doesn't fit their agenda.

"Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems— "

And I'm surprised she's not being crucified over it. I wouldn't think she'd deserve it though because I thought her answers were good but she wasn't listening. She was waiting for an opportunity to talk herself. Let's not sell.this as anything more than it was.

Both sides were being brutally honest. All to the good.

You're incapable of being unbiased.

I think HRC is the best candidate currently running. I think Bernie is the worst.

I'm not crazy about O'Malley because of the kind of policing he brought to Baltimore and MD. Webb is too conservative. And that is about all we have right now. If Warren were running I might rethink my support for HRC based on the campaign message Warren put together. Same for any other candidate that might enter the race in the future.

So, no, just because I have opinions about those already in the race doesn't mean I would not consider any other future candidates. It's very early, still.

She was no better in this than any other white liberal. She wasn't listening...she was waiting to pounce with her answers. The bit about talking to white people was cringeworthy. She had some good things to say and I'm not going to be spreading what a disaster she was all over the Internet because, just like the rest of us, I believe her heart is in the right place and she still has a lot to learn.

As far as I know, you have never met me. So what is your basis for stating what I think?

Your posting history?

This is what floors me about some people here. Somehow you believe that from a few posts you are entitled to pretend you know what I think about everything; who I have ever voted for; what my life is like, etc.

I can't even wrap my head around why ANYONE would think they know those things about a person they do not even know. It's wacky to me.

the topic was your inability to see ANY flaw in your candidate. Your posting history shows that to be the case.

Do even you know the Clinton policies and what these activists were trying to get her to say?

Some reading for you: http://www.salon.com/2015/04/13/the_clinton_dynastys_horrific_legacy_how_tough_on_crime_politics_built_the_worlds_largest_prison/

Note: I do understand that Bill enacted these policies and not Hillary, although, she is currently accepting money from the private prison industry--so was her evasion of that question a mistake? No, not at all--that's the problem.

It's just like she says oh, drilling in the arctic isn't good--but can't seem to answer questions regarding the XL pipeline.

Bill is not Hillary. Hillary is not responsible for his decisions. And Salon's hate filled bullshit rants about Hillary have made them unreadable to me.

Second, there is not a single shred of evidence to show that Hillary has taken a dime of money from for profit prison corps - not a shred. You're getting that talking point from Right wing libertarian, Glen Greenwalds site and he offers not a shred of proof.

it comes to any kind of personal interaction. I believe the word "awkward" is a kind way of putting what took place in this situation.

For both sides. But it is exactly what is needed.

#BLM was less impressed, but they called the meeting "respectful" it's a good start.

It sounds like their main disappointment was in her not accepting blame for the past based on what Bill did.

nobody was asked to bow down, and nobody was called a white supremacist.

was screaming, TAZE HER! TAZE HER!

... and it was directed at the crowd. And having worked in extensively in Seattle with liberal activists (including Black activists) I can tell you exactly what they meant by that.

In practice it is white people who consider themselves liberal but perpetuate structural racism through being clueless about the issue of structural racism and their white privilege.

And unfortunately that perfectly describes a lot of the white hipsters in Seattle to a tee.

ETA - another person on my facebook page also familiar with activists in Seattle put it this way: "I think it's a call to accountability for the many ways that white liberals (intentionally or unintentionally) uphold white supremacist systems. We want to think of ourselves as friends to POCs, but not do the hard work of examining and working to counter the ways we benefit from white supremacy."

That fits as well.

and I don't give a fuck who it was directed at. The contrast between how Sanders has been approached vs how Clinton was approached is glaring, and I don't expect you to ever acknowledge that.

And it's not important. The important thing is that it's being talked about.

There is a reason the approach turned out differently. Two reasons, actually:

1. He doesn't get it and it shows and he certainly wasn't jumping over himself to listen to them

2. His supporters and their actions and comments

And Clinton searched them out after her appearance, she didn't stand back with a "deer in the headlights" look on her face, like Sanders did, and she didn't say "if you want me to leave I will".

Sitting in Seattle right now.

HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you–I’m just telling you to tell me.

QUESTION: What I mean to say is– this is and has always been a white problem of violence. It’s not– there’s not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

HILLARY CLINTON: Well if that—

Q: And it’s a conversation to push back—

HILLARY CLINTON: Okay, Okay, I understand what you’re saying—

Q: Respectfully, respectfully—

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, respectfully, if that is your position then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems—

Q: That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean. But like what I’m saying is what you just said was a form of victim-blaming. Right you were saying that what the Black Lives Matter movement needs to do to change white hearts—

She obviously does NOT get it. Nor did she respond to the implications of the policies they brought up. Moreover, she was insanely condescending and degrading. This is absolutely disgusting.

I think she gave them good advice - goodness knows she has been in the position to try to change hearts AND change policy. And I think she listened, and I think she accepted that it's up to them and said how can I help?

claiming to be a Hillary supporter.

obviously you didn't see that I clearly stated (on more than one occasion) that she is my second choice. The reasons why she is not my first choice are:

1. Too close to Wall Street
2. Paid speeches at banks
3. Love for fracking and oil
4. Receiving money from private prisons
5. Not admitting to institutional racism that the Clinton policies helped to perpetuate

Please, stop whining about me being critical of Hillary and go do something positive for her campaign.

when you so described yourself.

Enjoy your stay here.

I haven't read one single post of your that tells me you support HRC at all.
zero posts. z e r o

Didn't you say this:

"22. AGAIN, read my posts, I have stated time and time again that I DO SUPPORT HER."

Or this:

"25. Yeah, I saw that, and ONCE AGAIN, I do support her."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110715785#post22

(You might want to take a little preventive Benadryl first.)

1.Hillary called out Wall Street CEO's, hedge fund managers and their ilk in her opening campaign speech. I'm sure you can find a vid on YouTube.

2.She should give free speeches? Why? Do you work for free? Will you tell your boss tomorrow you just can't ethically take money for your work because Hillary got a pay check?
3. You seem to be unaware of the clean energy planks in Hillary's platform. Suggest you read them. Meantime, note that she has called for an end to offshore drilling in the Arctic and elsewhere.

4. Produce proof.

5. She's spoken out on those issues many times.

...to characterize it as "disgusting" is completely off base.

Aren't you the person who earlier today said you were a Clinton supporter? Really? Just who are you?

meeting she agreed to squeeze in between other commitments, and she's supposed to deliver like a William Jennings Bryan. Gimme a freakin break!

....said that it was contentious. I'm really glad the video was released. Once again it shows that Hillary Clinton is a strong, decisive, and principled leader.

Now let's see the usual cliches, labels, and criticism of her.

I got the same feeling watching it that you describe.

you'd see that her body language was terrible. She was leaning back away from the BLM representative with her head tilted back so that when she spoke she was looking down her nose at him.

She also gesticulated at face level which looked odd and she repeatedly pushed her closed fist at the representative as if she was pointing, but with her pointing finger inside her fist.

I don't know anyone who like to be punched at like that. It's like being a little kid and having an adult scold you.

If Secy Clinton is our candidate, I sure hope she improves her body language, because what she's doing now is very negative.

Her head was tilted back because she was maintaining eye contact with a gentleman several inches taller than she is. How do you "look down your nose" at someone who's 5-6 inches taller than you are?

I don't think I'll bother with the rest.

I was watching her body language, not him.

She victim-blamed, she whites plainer, she dismissed, she filibustered.

"If THAT'S your attitude, I'll only talk to white people!"

Oh and don't forget the oh so fake bobble head which showed anything EXCEPT actually listening.

If you can't see it, then you have problems with either social communications and empathy or honesty.

I have to say it will entertain me for a long time to come though.

She is a fake and a very mean one too.

Also, I highly recommend this morning's segment on democracynow.org where two of the activists from that event discussed their reactions and they were really fair I think.

One thing struck me was they said they got her to react from an emotional and defensive place and they felt glad to have been able to get her to perhaps have some self-reflection. That's about as charitable a take as you can have about being told "I'll only talk to white people" about this.

See/Listen to what two of the BLM activists actually thought about this exchange, or just accept the OP's simplistic interpretation.

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/8/19/stream

edited to add: Did anyone also notice her little repeated dig toward Bernie when she falsely claimed that there are "some who only care about economic justice" or some such twaddle?

I think a lot of people either didn't watch the entire video or are about as genuine as faux leather.

Funny how her supporters somehow missed that. That's a giraffe sized gaffe in my opinion. Condescending as hell. Media seems to have ignored it as well.

Also, I didn't notice her apologizing. Did I miss her apology?

Getting better by the minute.

is something which needs to be worked together to accomplish.

Hillary will do this.. thanks Maggie.

Unfortunately, all of the ops I'm seeing on the topic are pretty offensive. I appreciate how you stated your case without offensive call outs. That at least allows for an honest debate.

Sometimes I fail, but that is my intention.

with these guys and NOT get her mic stolen