"if that is your position then I will talk only to white people..."

[sufrommich]

I have now seen this partial quote disingenuously used here on DU many times.

Here's the whole quote:

Activist speaking:

"If you don't tell black people what we need to do, then we won't tell you all what you need to do," he told Clinton. "This is and has always been a white problem of violence. There's not much that we can do to stop the violence against us."


Clinton's response:

"Respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems," Clinton replied.


As you can see,the activist is telling her that racism is a white problem,that white people need to be talked to about it.

I've read the responses on Black Twitter and many activists in Black Lives Matter,none of them are taking this partial quote out of context and accusing her of making a racist comment.In fact,if you google the partial quote,it's being used almost exclusively on right wing blogs.

[Agschmid]

1. I'll kick this.

Any accusation of racism against our three top candidates is rediculous, and should be rediculed as such.

None of our leading candidates is or ever was a racist.

[brush]

2. Ahhh . . . her awkward phrasing is a problem

"Respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with the very real problems"?

You have to admit that's sounds exclusionary.

And Hillary is not the only one using bad phrasing in this exchange.

The activist stating: "If you don't tell black people what we need to do, then we won't tell you all what you need to do," he told Clinton." That's not smart either.

Of course both sides should be talking to each other.

That's a great example of both sides talking but not communicating effectively.

Wish Hillary had more of Bill's eloquence in showing empathy.

[Agschmid]

3. Listen/read the whole exchange.

And discussing this isn't easy, nor should it be.

It's a real issue, and there are real problems that need to be solved.

[brush]

6. I was in the middle of editing my post when you responded

Please look at it again to see what's been added.

[seabeyond]

9. And discussing this isn't easy, nor should it be.

exactly. it was a raw moment in exchange. i bet both look at the conversation and say.... man should have said this, done this. but ya.

and i am not uncomfortable with difficult conversation. some hide from it. not me. i roll up sleeves and ya.... lets get into it.

[sufrommich]

7. "You have to admit that's sounds exclusionary"

No,I don't have to admit that's "sounds exclusionary". When a black person tells you racism is a white problem,not a black problem,agreeing with them isn't being "exclusionary".It's obvious that it's not white people suffering the effects of racism and black people aren't responsible for that racism.

[brush]

11. Guess you didn't read the rest of my post

Both Hillary and the activist, IMO, made unwise statements.

We should all be communicating ALL THE TIME. I mean as a BLM activist, how can you possibly think it's a good idea not to speak out on what needs to be corrected? That's what an activist does. How is it helping BLM if they are not communicating what the problems are along with suggestions as to how to fix them to a person who could become the president who will then have the power to implement said suggestions to fix the problems?

And following that logic, I don't think it was smart of Hillary to say "she would only talk to white people about it", no matter what the activist said. The repugs are already salivating about using that sound bite in ads against her.

We should all be communicating all the time. We just have to figure out how to do it with empathy. Neither of them communicated well in this instance IMO.

[passiveporcupine]

42. It didn't sound exclusionary to me

but if you actually listen to her, or read her full quote, it did come across as dismissive. I don't think it only sounded that way to me.

[Hortensis]

60. Are you kidding? She knocked it out of the park. Larry Wilmore on Nightly Show was impressed

with what she went on to say and criticized those who (not surprisingly) didn't recognize "authenticity" when they saw it.

THIS is the part the Right is extremely carefully ignoring, but the black right AND left are taking note of, including very much the BLM activists she was speaking to:

"Look - I don't believe you change hearts. I believe you change laws, you change allocation of resources. You. change. the. way. systems. operate. You're NOT going to change every heart. You're not. But at the end of the day, you can do a whole lot to change SOME hearts and change some systems and create more opportunities for people who deserve to have them, to live up to their own god-given potential, to live safely, without fear of violence in their own communities, to have a decent school, to have a decent house, to have a decent future.

So we can do it one of many ways. You can keep the movement going, which you have started, and through it you may actually change some hearts. But if that’s all that happens, we’ll be back here in 10 years having the same conversation. We will not have all of the changes that you deserve to see happen in your lifetime because of your willingness to get out there and talk about this.

Well I’m ready to get out and do my part in any way that I can."

A very honest, competent position some here also seem not to have recognized for what it is. I'm proud of her. That's how to do it, Hillary!

[jtuck004]

26. "None of our leading candidates is or ever was a racist." ALL our leading candidates are privileged

and white.

In a country that is racist to it's core, they are racists without being racist, as are many people.

...
But here's why such conversations rarely go anywhere: Whites and racial minorities speak a different language when they talk about racism, scholars and psychologists say. The knife fight experiment hints at the language gap. Some whites confine racism to intentional displays of racial hostility. It's the Ku Klux Klan, racial slurs in public, something "bad" that people do.

But for many racial minorities, that type of racism doesn't matter as much anymore, some scholars say. They talk more about the racism uncovered in the knife fight photos -- it doesn't wear a hood, but it causes unsuspecting people to see the world through a racially biased lens.

It's what one Duke University sociologist calls "racism without racists." Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, who's written a book by that title, says it's a new way of maintaining white domination in places like Ferguson.

"The main problem nowadays is not the folks with the hoods, but the folks dressed in suits," says Bonilla-Silva.
...

Here.

[JDPriestly]

41. Not much you can do about the racism the author of that article was talking about.

That concerns the snap judgments people make based on appearance and manner.

I remember once applying for a job. I had great grades and my resume was perfect for the job, plus a friend who worked in the place had put in a good word for me. All set. Right?

Wrong.

I walked in and sat down and the interviewer sat sort of in a chair to my side and very patiently and very condescendingly said to me, "I'm sorry, but you just don't look like a person who could read a corporate balance sheet." I don't look like . . . . . I had prepared all the budgets on Lotus 1-2-3 for various projects of the large non-profit company I was working for. Plus I had a degree that indicated I was pretty capable in that area, plus I had just taken some additional course work on reading corporate balance sheets, etc.

I was given no chance simply because of my appearance -- a bit older (at that time not that old), short and feminine. Not just a woman but feminine.

The bridge that kind of ignorant prejudice builds is really hard to cross.

And think how hard it was for men to break into nursing. Even male teachers used to have a hard time. That kind of a barrier is really tough to cross.

It isn't just about race. It's about prejudices that we learn in early childhood about who we are and who are mothers and fathers are and where we fit into society.

As a white person, I would like to change things, but where do we begin?

I think the media can do something, but individual white people like me, where do we begin?

I want change but I feel helpless about really changing things. This is not just a matter of changing laws although work is needed there too. We could start there and see what happens but we have to have a majority in Congress as well as the White House to get anything done.

[bvar22]

51. Thought Provoking Post.

I'm still digesting it.
Thanks.

Where DO we begin?

[jtuck004]

57. I could think of a thousand easy ways to make a real impact, just starting in the schools.

On the other hand, Clinton is right. You don't change people's hearts, so the conflict it would start would be huge. But people are dying, so do they matter or not?

But to do this in mass numbers you have to get the people who are now the problem - the ones who think they are not, which is what makes the task near impossible - to recognize that they are training the next generation to be just like them. And to stop it, before those hearts are set.

The only things I can envision prompting a process like that are civil wars, famine, huge diseases, changes like the printing press maybe.

'Cause those hearts ain't ready to listen today, and barring something major, likely never will be.

[JDPriestly]

61. "f a thousand easy ways to make a real impact"

Could you please explain a few of them?

[jtuck004]

63. Tell the Texas schools they aren't going to teach that black lives don't matter by minimizing

slavery and the other lies of omission they have written into their new textbooks.

Stop the school to prison pipeline in Chicago and other places.

Equalize the funding, spend some money and don't make kids try to learn with crappy books and leaky ceilings.

Lots of things...but everyone will have all sort of reasons not to. They always have, this isn't new.

We are teaching and training the next generation to hate. Can't seem to stop ourselves.

Then again, until we stop making the planet uninhabitable and dangerous for our kids and their kids, I don't have much hope that any of the other things will get worked on all that much.

[Android3.14]

4. Besides, she is spot on

That whole "whitesplaining" thing is total racist bullshit, and I am glad she faced that attitude head-on.

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. LOL ... I don't think she meant what you heard based on the "whitesplaining" part. n/t

[whathehell]

5. Her response sounds like she was frustrated..

and I understand why.

[TexasBushwhacker]

69. I agree. However this could be her "47%" statement

Taken out of context, I think it could every bit as damaging as Romney's 47% statement. It didn't help that she kept pointing her finger at him. That comes off as rude and aggressive.

[whathehell]

70. Possible, although I doubt it..

I saw her gesturing, which is natural, but I didn't see finger pointing.

[seabeyond]

8. if have always said. christians need to speak up with christian community. men need to speak up

within male communities. white need to speak up among fellow whites.

the real fixes come in when peers challenge fellow peers.

that is how i see that conversation. and the man that said


"If you don't tell black people what we need to do, then we won't tell you all what you need to do," he told Clinton. "This is and has always been a white problem of violence. There's not much that we can do to stop the violence against us."


is absolutely right on. it IS whites job to talk to fellow whites.

yes. i think that is where clinton was going on that. she did not get to finish this point, but from what she was saying i think it would bare out. though i felt snark, and i did not like that. one can be making a point, and snark can happen. i think snark is a waste and antagonistic.

the frustrating thing about the whole thing? i would have liked to see them sit, not be rushed for time, .... and really talked. but.... i totally agree with changing hearts issue, and that would be white on white role.

[brush]

18. Yeah, that idiot aide that rushed them . . .

screwed up the whole tone of things.

There should have been more time allocated for an actual side down.

For both Hillary and the activist to essentially say that "yeah, we won't talk to each other about police violence against blacks, we'll just talk to whites and blacks respectively" was not wise.

Both sides should make efforts to communicate effectively without patronization or unnecessary confrontation.

[JDPriestly]

27. Very good post.

The problem is that only very rarely to white racists express their racism to white people.

Once I was standing in line om front of a white guy at a political event attended mostly by non-white people. The white guy behind me started talking to me about why he was supporting a candidate (local politics) who was white. Seems he was from the South. I will say no more. That was the only chance I can remember in the last ten years in which anyone dared to express racist sentiments to me EVEN THOUGH OR MAYBE BECAUSE I AM WHITE.

That is the conundrum. How do we identify and then reach racists when we live apart from them. I live in a very mixed community. Years ago an African-American moved in behind us. We always talked to him. On one occasion we had a disagreement about the trimming of a tree, but we were always friends. Suddenly, he told us that someone had put racist notes on his door telling him he did not belong in our neighborhood. That was utterly ridiculous. He was not the only African-American in the neighborhood (although other neighbors may not have realized that) and besides, our neighborhood in California is utterly mixed racially. But the notes got worse and worse. He was virtually forced to move. We never could figure out who was behind this horrible behavior. I suspect the people may not have been white themselves.

But those are two rare instances in the past 20 years in which we had the opportunity as white people to speak out against racism when it could have mattered. In the first instance, I scolded the racist behind me. He became silent, but I don't think I changed his mind. Maybe I surprised him a bit. Maybe he thought about it. I don't know. In the second case, we did not know what to do. Should we have canvassed the neighbors to find out who was writing the nasty notes? I don't know. Could we have changed someone's mind? I don't know.

But I do know that I do not know what to do about this. And it troubles me very much.

I do know what to do about police brutality. The cameras will help. Having judicial review of every instance of a death beating or even complaint about police treatment of suspects and inmates in police custody will help. Establishing stringent ethical standards and requiring constant training of police on race and the use of violence issues will help. National standards on police conduct will help. That's where I would begin with police abuse of power.

[seabeyond]

29. your first sentence jd. i totaly disagree. i think we often hear not only flat out racism

in the conversation but benevolent and also unconscious racism in conversation. and all kinds of paths are opened on how to address it for mere awareness. it is the awareness we are working on here.

[JDPriestly]

45. I live in California. I don't hear it in the social groups I belong to.

On the rare occasions that I see or hear any hint, I say something. I'm quite outspoken.

What I do see is that my neighborhood is being gentrified. People of color, mostly Hispanics, are losing their rented apartments. Those who bought here, regardless of race, are making money when they sell their houses.

So I see the economic aspects of racism. White people are moving in and Hispanics and others are moving out. It is quite a strange sight. It isn't the racism that you see in police departments. It is the economic racism. And to me it is a confirmation that the economic issues and certain aspects of racism are almost one and the same.

When I see or hear racism in my community, I say something. But then, I am very much a minority, a white minority in the community in which I live -- or at least I was until the past maybe three years. I think whites are still the minority here, but the number of white residents is increasing. Very strange situation.

When I go to the grocery store or other places, wherever, waiting for a bus, the doctor's office, I represent a minority, the white minority, not the majority of people of color in the room or community.

[GitRDun]

34. Right on!

She said the right thing..

[cali]

10. had Bernie said that, no matter the context, the shitstorm of outrage from Hillary supports

would be deafening. It was snarky and flippant and not even a little bit respectful.

[GoneFishin]

12. Absolutely. The deliberate and blatant mischaracterization and the double standard applied to both

incidences is disgusting.

It was snarky and flippant, but that doesn't fit the "Bernie doesn't get it, but Hillary does" narrative.

[randome]

13. It's the same thing with OWS and Clinton was right.

She may not have articulated it perfectly but she was right.

If we learned anything from the directionless anger that was OWS, you cannot shame corporations into behaving better. Corporations aren't even people, for Christ's sake!

And it's the same with BLM, IMO: you can't shame non-blacks into behaving better. You need to have something concrete to focus on. A direction and a goal that everyone can see and articulate.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[seabeyond]

15. what i have learned in the social justice battle, is... i cannot speak for those, i dont experience

but i can bring it to my experience with womens issues, and how i have seen activism and avocation work in this area, and talk about my personal experience in that.

that is what she brought to the table that was very interesting, that i hope will be gleamed onto.

now. we approach it in different manners depending who we are. i am more the man, saying change hearts. clinton is more the lawyer saying, fug the people that wont change hearts, change law.

we need both.

it is ALL fascinating.

[randome]

16. It IS fascinating.

And this is likely my first (and possibly last) post about BLM because I don't experience what blacks go through and like you said, I can't speak for them. But I thought it important to at least highlight the similarity with OWS.

The DU OWS forum is nearing 90 days without a single post. Surely we all don't want to see something similar happen with BLM.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[seabeyond]

17. this is why we need a strong social justice advocate. and where i was having an issue with the

strong economic advocate. i think in 2016.... it is really the time. between all we have accomplished now, i think we are sitting on the precipice that will allow us to jump off and soar, connecting a lot of dots to allow huge progression. all culminating....

supreme crt
state power
gerrymander
citizen untied

these are the areas we are gonna get things done

ows
sanders activists
blm

[randome]

19. And I really think the GOP is on its way off the stage.

Kicking and screaming every step of the way, but still...

2016 may, as you say, be the pivotal year.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]

[seabeyond]

20. yes yes... yes yes YES

doing the meg ryan, (kate and leopold) dance of yes yes.... yes yes YES!

lol. that is part of the whole of it. and the gay marriage nationwide? HUGE in the progression and what the candidates need ot jump on. the taking down the confederate flag.

and NOTHING

the opportunity they are messing in showing how we the fuckin people reallly CAN DO!

but we are totally ignoring our gains to fight over, do we even talk about it,or do we merely talk about white middle and working class.

fug that dems

run with what we excel at and what we have accomplished. and tons with black family obama in all their grace, smart and kick ass

damn.... why are we not using this

the repugs are down. dems election to when. knock 'em out!!!

[JDPriestly]

23. OWS is morphing into feeling the Bern.

That's not a bad thing. OWS has widened in the support of its core purpose I think. OWS awakened a lot of people to the fact that they were not alone in their discontent with the system that makes wealth supreme in every area of our society.

And now we have Bernie uniting us behind the realization that while wealth is OK, other values are more important.

One of those other values is racially equality and another is keeping law enforcement under civilian control and eliminating racists in positions of authority and out of police forces.

These are only a couple of the issues that Bernie's supporters are uniting around.

Fair immigration law is another. There is quite a list, but I see the uniting of these interests and concerns around Bernie's campaign.

It's a good thing. Uniting is the answer for getting all this done.

But I still don't know how to change the hearts of racists. Any ideas?????

[randome]

40. I'd say laws are more important than hearts.

But some hearts can be swayed with solid speech-writing. If Clinton is our next President, I hope she has a kick-ass speechwriter. Someone like Obama.

Numbers are good but uniting behind a focused goal is better. Whenever you have a hundred different problems to solve, it's best to focus on one at a time. Otherwise, nothing gets done.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]

[seabeyond]

46. where i think it is important, what the man might have been continuing saying, as i see it from

a womans position and what i wanted to hear from sanders, .... that i hear from clinton and omalley is...

what he wants is a representative the he HEARS they get it from the heart. cause when you have a representative that gets it in the heart, they are not just seeing it thru the brain, but the whole of the issue and they will be speaking our more and more effective, if a person just gets it on paper.

from my perspective, THAT is the importance he is talking about.

[Oilwellian]

28. Especially since the BLM activist immediately responded...

by saying "That's not what I mean. What you just said is a form of victim blaming."

I was very impressed with BLM Boston.

[Juicy_Bellows]

58. Exactly.

The double standard, willful blindness fries my ham.

[jfern]

71. Agreed

"He can't even avoid whitesplaining to BLM in a scheduled meeting. That proves he's a racist. Blah blah blah."

[whatchamacallit]

14. Spin, spin, spin... Watch her demeanor when she says it

She's testy and it's a threat.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. What's she got to be "testy" about?

Because they're taking up her valuable time?

Was she late for another $2,700 a plate dinner?

[whatchamacallit]

49. Well that's what her staffer was indicating

So, yeah.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

50. One of the oldest tricks in the book is to have your secretary claim you have to go.

[dsc]

44. But if she were a man she would have been decisive.

[whatchamacallit]

48. No, a man would have appeared just as defensive n/t

[dsc]

53. right

go ahead and believe that.

[whatchamacallit]

56. Can't speak for others

But to me, that exchange would feel the same regardless of sex.

[sibelian]

21. Where's the video?

?

[JDPriestly]

22. Racism against black people is a white problem.

As a white person who abhors that racism, I have no clue what to do about it, and I sure wish I did. Anyone with any suggestions? Cause I sure would appreciate them.

How do I and other white people change the minds of those who are racist?

I don't know what to do. Please help!

[sibelian]

31. No, it isn't at all.

There's nothing about white people that makes them inherently racist and nothing stopping black people being racist themselves.

Gay people can antisemitic. Women can be homophobic. Black people can be misogynists. The power differential is irrelevant, prejudice remains prejudice whether it's aimed to or from the dominant culture.

Experiencing prejudice is no insulation against forming prejudiced views oneself.

One may as well say that homophobia is a "christian" problem.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

33. Don't let them think it's okay with your silence....

One of the ways they used to keep fellow white people from defending black people was to accuse them of being a "ni**er lover" which they said was "worse than being a ni**er" because "you are a traitor to your race".

That might have worked 50 years ago but it's the 21st century now so when you hear a racist mouth off in public or private you get in their face.

If that doesn't work and you operate a backhoe on a job site, you can always....

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

43. It's everyones problem.

But entrenched racism won't change. These people just need to die out and hopefully their children will figure it all out, despite the parental brainwashing.

Now institutional racism is another story. Things can be done to force change. You may not change the hearts, but you can make them change their actions.

[mythology]

25. If somebody doesn't want to be part of the solution

Then let them stay out of the way. Many Black Lives Matter activists seem to have no idea of how to accomplish anything useful.

It's a shame as there are legitimate grievances that need to be addressed.

[HubertHeaver]

66. Forcing the issue into the national conscience is useful.

Now the task is to keep it there.

[sibelian]

30. Interesting that the right have picked up on it.

Let's hope that doesn't translate into black support for Republicans, eh?

[passiveporcupine]

32. Context is good

Full context is even better:

JULIUS JONES: Respectfully, the piece that’s most important—and I stand here in your space, and I say this as respectfully as I can—but if you don’t tell black people what we need to do, then we won’t tell you all what you need to do. Right?

HILLARY CLINTON: I’m not telling you; I’m just telling you to tell me.

JULIUS JONES: What I mean to say is that this is, and has always been, a white problem of violence. It’s not—there’s not much that we can do to stop the violence against us.

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, if that is the—

JULIUS JONES: And it’s a conversation and a pushback.

HILLARY CLINTON: OK, I understand. I understand what you’re saying.

JULIUS JONES: And then, we are also, respectfully, respectfully—

HILLARY CLINTON: Yeah, well, respectfully, if that is your position, then I will talk only to white people about how we are going to deal with a very real problem.

JULIUS JONES: That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean. That’s not what I mean

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2015/8/19/watch_full_video_of_hillary_clintons
Transcript provided at link.

I don't know how anyone can take this exchange as "racism" from either side. It helps to read the transcript in full, to get more of a feel of what transpired.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Better yet, watch the video

Without sound. Then with sound.

[passiveporcupine]

47. I'm going to do that...thanks

OK, so I'm watching it without sound now. I never noticed that Hillary does not seem able to look at whom she is speaking to, except for brief glances...most of the time she seems to be looking at the floor. Not sure what that is all about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. Body language is important

I admit. I noticed the nuances accidentally. My FB feed is silent. The video started running and I just watched. 90 percent of human communications is non verbal. And at one point she starts to point at them. That is considered an invasion of space. They become somewhat submissive.

I watched it a few times. Also not meeting gazes is either fear or submissiveness.

[passiveporcupine]

59. She uses her hands in a very aggressive way at times

especially when "pointing" at people, and I too noticed she invaded their space with her hands frequently (especially when pointing at them).

At the end of the video I was thinking "one of her handlers needs to tape her hands behind her back".

I know I pick up on the body language when watching people talk, but it becomes so much more obvious with the sound off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Yup

We watch pols locally and body language is always something I look at

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. Even without the text of the extended exchange ...

it is difficult to see how anyone could take this exchange as "racism" ... yet, read the thread and there they are!

[maindawg]

37. Sometimes Hillary speaks too quickly

She can be short and curt. I would like her to take a moment ,even if her aides are trying to hurry her, and use her mind to her advantage. Hillary is not a good politician. She will make a good president I think because he has so much experience and because Bill will give her good advise. I think electing Hillary will be the best thing for our country right now.
I support Bernie because he forces Hillary to the left.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

39. Nice moonwalk!

You should open a dictionary and look up the word condescending. You people are a riot!

[Juicy_Bellows]

52. I have a thread up on The Nightly Show take on it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251532853

Pretty sure they lean left.

[MoveIt]

54. dont believe the video, believe the Thought Leaders

Some unbelievably inept damage control by the Hillarians here.


Two suggestions, watch the Democracy Now interview with the BLM activists to hear their side or just accept what Hillaries Thought Leaders say you should feel about the exchange.

If you want a humorous take watch the nightly show both of which are linked Here:

Post #31 on this thread has the democracy now link.

Nightly show segment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251532853

[underthematrix]

64. This is my focus - #BlackWealth #BlackLegacy #BlackExcellence

African Americans should not get drawn into the crazy. All we should care about is strengthening our children, our families, and our communities and acting in the best interest or our fellow Americans, e.g. healthcare, safety net, education and jobs, climate change, . While we should dialogue with the presidential candidates, we need focus our energies on STRENGTHENING our community like President Obama is doing with our Brother's Keeper.

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/634380557330313216

Morehouse College a historically black college just admitted a freshman class of 900 smart fierce AA men.

[Jamaal510]

65. K&R

I heard the whole thing, and had a feeling that her comment would be conveniently and dishonestly dissected. When the whole thing is taken into context, she said nothing wrong, but some of her enemies will still use it to score political points and paint her as a racist. It's what they do.

[mcar]

67. Thank you

[Cha]

68. Thank you for the whole quotes, su. of course rw are tying to spin this negatively with their usual

bs.