2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAt this point, it doesn't matter if Hillary is or is not guilty of security breaches,
Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)
politically, she's toast. Seriously, the MSM has got it's bone and they're not going to let go of it and the Republicans will run with it. It's all we're hearing about her now, what will it be like if she were to get the nomination? The right wing crazies will be out in droves to vote AGAINST her in the General. Just one more reason she absolutely should NOT be the nominee.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)This just another "supporter" so concerned as to give such sincere advice for Clinton to quit while the quitting is good, apparently not being aware the election is NEXT YEAR post is exactly why DU sucks so much, lately.
LuvLoogie
(7,496 posts)on "better not vote for Hillary and here's why" threads here. What a waste of bandwidth.
These OPs...
tularetom
(23,664 posts)One scandal after the other. Rumors and allegations every day.
In spite of Clinton's appeasement of the right wing, it never stopped.
It isn't just republicans who don't want to go back to that.
She might be able to buy the nomination but she's dead meat in the general election.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)her long, less-than-stellar history. Both Hillary and Obama were corporate friendly but Obama didn't come with Hillary's baggage. That baggage hasn't gone anywhere and with this new e-mail "scandal," it just reinforces people's prejudices against her. And you're right, it's not only Republicans who will remember that history.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...so I'm guessing they saw something worthwhile.
frylock
(34,825 posts)That's the only reason she looked good on paper.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Right, let's go with that one.
frylock
(34,825 posts)you recall what happened in those states, don't you?
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Cosmocat
(14,897 posts)was the moment she lost the 2008 primary.
If she didn't sell out that day, BHO's never would have had the air to beat her ...
leveymg
(36,418 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)but Obama had no real track record,
So most of America took a chance, and voted for the guy we didn't know instead of the Hillary we DID know.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)That's kind of sad when you think about it. It also makes the prospect of having her as our nominee more than just a little alarming.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)..a vote AGAINST Hillary.'
I fought "Moderate Republican Policy" all my life.
Why should I vote for it now?
LuvLoogie
(7,496 posts)I voted for Barack Obama 4 times as well. I was torn in '08.
I am really looking forward to voting for Hillary Clinton.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)And even then, the second time, was very reluctantly.
840high
(17,196 posts)DURHAM D
(32,825 posts)I guess you like Republican and media liars across the board. Congratulations.
Hope no one ever tells a lie about you as it seems you would just accept it is fact and go hide under the bed.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)of the OP. It's this: IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S TRUE OR NOT, THE PERCEPTION AND SENSATIONALISM IS WHAT MATTERS. I find it ironic that I'm having to point out reality to the "reality-based" community.
DURHAM D
(32,825 posts)I assume you think President Clinton should have resigned the moment the House passed articles of impeachment.
You are the one in a fact free zone.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)The fact is that this "scandal" is hurting her candidacy. The fact is that trajectories don't lie, particularly consistent ones.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I disagree.
Economic policy that reverses the transfer of wealth from the Working Class & Poor to the BILLIONAIRES
is what matters.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)they'll just let Bernie Sanders coast to the Presidency. Just look at the birther stuff with Obama or the swift-boating of John Kerry.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)(and she keeps handing it to them). She can't run from the scandal-ridden history, fairly or unfairly, the media is using it to boost ratings, the Republicans will use it to whip up votes. Neither Bernie nor O'Malley have anywhere near that much ammunition to give them. I don't know enough about O'Malley but the worst thing they have on Bernie is the socialist label and that has been wholly ineffective.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)and I truly believe they've reached it.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)The right is ignoring Sanders because he is getting smoked by Hillary. Hard to imagine Hillary having such a lead with so much baggage.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)and even that is slipping.
All the s won't help her in the general.
1: The one thing that will bring RWers to the polls is their mutual hatred of the Clintons.
2: The left wing of the Democratic Party are getting tired of having to hold their nose to vote.
Tommy2Tone
(1,307 posts)Latest polling shows Hillary with over 80% support with Dems..Not sure Bernie's fans are Dems?
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Yes Bernie supporters (fans according to you) are Democrats (and Independents and disappointed Republicans).
PS: Thank you Laura Miller (former Democratic Mayor of Dallas) for not letting Jerry Jones and his Dallas Cowboys franchise rape the taxpayers of this city.
cannabis_flower
(3,831 posts)Her making jokes about it just makes her seem flippant. Like she doesn't take the issue seriously.
840high
(17,196 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)That's the end of it.
And even if it doesn't matter to the general public l, good lord stand on your morals have it matter to you.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)That's why I could never personally support someone who voted Yes on the IWR, who voted FOR the Patriot Act, who supports the TPP and the XL Pipeline, who supported NAFTA and Welfare Reform and who had to "evolve" on marriage equality.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)No one is perfect, but it appeared you are willing to believe a lie.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)"I believe that marriage is, not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman . . ." or any words to that effect?
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)and that includes Bernie Sanders. That speech of hers is a disgrace and she can't run from it.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Everyone evolved, to pretend otherwise is rediculous.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I know a lot of people who didn't have to evolve on this isse. And you're certainly free to call "bullshit" to anything but to be believable you really should have proof. Now, I proved that Hillary, had to "evolve" by providing a link. Feel free to provide some proof that some of us didn't have to evolve. I've been on this board since 2001. Feel free to link to any post of mine that proves differently or a link wherein Bernie Sanders claims marriage should be between a man and a woman. If you can't, well, then, bullshit indeed.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)We have all evolved. And I'm not about to search your posts this isn't just about you.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Ever since I learned as a child that gay peole couldn't get married I was a supporter of same sex marriage.
Unless you have a problem with lgbt rights why wouldn't you?
Control-Z
(15,684 posts)1990?
Life did not begin in 2001.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)But then again, I've always had a different perspective.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)Sorry to jump in here but I am personally aware of 4 people 40+ that have always been for marriage equality. They are homosexuals, perhaps that may be where your blinders are.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)No blinders.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)No offense meant, in my circle we've all been very passionate about marriage rights for as long as we can remember.
Cheers!
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Some of us always believed in "equal rights".
PS: in order to rediculous, you must first diculous.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)It's all a decision at one point, we all made it.
Clearly some of us made it at different times, but I don't deserve "street cred" for getting there first.
Guess what no matter what candidate we elect on our side, it's a whole lot better than what the other side has to offer.
I don't look diculous or rediculous I'm stating a fact, we all were raised by someone, and someone helped us become the people we are today.
I'm gay, and I had to fight years of homophobia both external and internal in order to be comfortable with who I was... I evolved. So did you, and for that matter so did everyone else.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Must be nice.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)i have lived in poverty from the get go. It's not all that nice, but I have survived.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)However, when people here genuinely tell you they have always felt for marriage equality you should extend the possibility they're being genuine. People live through many different lenses. For some it's a slow burn, for others it's an explosion. I feel they're both real and both valid.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)tblue37
(66,035 posts)an aide remarked that the smear was a lie, Johnson said, "I don't care. I just want to see all the headlines saying, 'X denies that he f***s pigs' "!
The constant attacks on Hillary for so many made up "scandals" lead some people to blame her for all the noise about scandals (classic victim blaming). Some also buy into the notion that all that smoke must mean there really is a fire somewhere, but that just means that if the (very real) vast RW conspiracy slings enough mud, some will stick no matter whether, as you say, it is true or not.
But just because you spot a huge pile of BS, that doesn't mean there must be a bull in there somewhere.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)Perception is everything. too many low info voters who are only seeing the headlines.
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)What kind of nonsense is thst...defeatism is not a liberal ideal.
Seems certain "supporters" are doing a lot more attacking, including such great "concern" as expressed, than much supporting!
musiclawyer
(2,335 posts)I would vote for her of course if need be, but it's not necessary and too risky to risky to nominate her. Shitty uninspiring candidate, horrific campaign, pit bull media, and RW rage = bad outcome.
Bernie + O'Malley = blowout of whoever the GOP nominates ...
All her defenders will cry its unfair and the RW and MSM will go after whoever we nominate with equal venom. Yeah, all true. But fairness is irrelevant here, and both BS and MOM have thimble size baggage, are much more trusted, and are way better at shutting down media spin . And Bernie on any ticket free of HRC brings Obama 2008 level enthusiasm +
oasis
(51,483 posts)he has a "thimble size" war chest to match. He won't be able to deal with the GOP tsunami of cash in the GE.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)With centrist pragmatics: they do not believe in DEMOCRACY they believe in MONEY
oasis
(51,483 posts)"having a thimble sized war chest". I never "claimed" anything else, other than his baggage matched his war chest.
Try winning the GE without slugging it out, toe to toe, against GOP campaign ads.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Be on the right side of history?
oasis
(51,483 posts)The continuous flow of GOP ad money.
I'll stick with Hillary, like her, I'm in it to win it.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)oasis
(51,483 posts)A constant tsunami, but well worth the effort.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)If so, perhaps you need to step back and think long and hard about the implications for what's left of our democracy.
oasis
(51,483 posts)ruling is in the driver's seat as far as campaign contributions are concerned. Hillary is forced to accept mountains of cash because that's what it will take to win.
RufusTFirefly
(8,812 posts)Sorry, but I'm not buying that. (Literally. Or figuratively.)
That's right up there with "We had to burn the village in order to save it."
oasis
(51,483 posts)You don't need to buy reality, it's free.
So is fantasy.
Bye now
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)The Republicans tried this with the Benghazi thing, but they peaked way too early. They figured there was enough material they could draw it out, releasing one little daily tidbit after another. The email thing is following the same pattern, with some "new and shocking revelation" coming at us every two or three days. My hunch is the Republicans have miscalculated again by starting too early. By next October, we will be asking Trey Gowdy why he leaked classified information to Breitbart, and Clinton will be in the clear.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)is her candidacy status. No one but hard right wingers were interested in the Benghazi stuff but as a candidate for her party's nomination, the email "scandal" is garnering more widespread scrutiny. Fairly or unfairly, it's hurting her candidacy.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)I just don't like Hillary. I don't want her to be the nominee. She's not what this country needs at this time, imo.
LuvLoogie
(7,496 posts)So you guys should stop wasting bandwidth. We get it...
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)should quit wasting bandwidth. We get it...
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)it would affect her in the General should she become the nominee. Technically, I couldn't tell you thing one about the subject because I'm just not interested.
randome
(34,845 posts)You're not fooling anyone.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)thinks they have any clue as to other peoples' motivations over the internet.
My interest is exactly as stated. If you want to manufacture sinister motivations that's on you.
LuvLoogie
(7,496 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)I count that as a negative.
Harkin is the man behind factory Farming of Pigs, mono cropping of GMO corn, and containing "pig waste" in million gallon ponds,
and those were the qualities President Obama was looking for when he appointed Tom (Mr Monsanto)as the Sec. of Ag (USDA).....top dog.
If you care what you eat....Harkin is NOT your guy.
LuvLoogie
(7,496 posts)She's 20 points up in Iowa, before Tom Harkin's endorsement. The OP is about FUD affecting voters.
Hey! She even beat Bernie in the "Corn Poll" after all...
Why don't you open another thread about Hillary, Tom and Monsanto?
(Iowa is the first caucus/primary, BTW)
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Because Tom Harkin, factory Pig Farming, and mono-cropping GMO crops are all part of the same Monsanto scam.
You can't talk about Tom Harkin without talking about Millions & Millions of Gallons of Pig Shit being "held" in retaining ponds.
Tom Harkin and Pig Shit are inseparably entwined.
LuvLoogie
(7,496 posts)Try to set aside that it bothers you.
Lisa D
(1,532 posts)The MSM *always* have a bone--especially with Democratic front-runners. Anyone who thinks the MSM or Republicans will be all sweetness and light with *any* Dem front-runner isn't dealing with reality.
The sky is *not* falling
oasis
(51,483 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)Every time I see it, I imagine that the Q has outfitted HRC with a tactical pantsuit...
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Done. Although I'd love to blame it on a typo, I have to admit to the misspelling.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)She will not draw new voters. She will not draw the disgusted voter.
I don't see how she wins the general.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)There is not enough there to get the turnout necessary for a Dem win. I have however heard from some of my moderate republican friends and family that they could get behind Sanders if they do not like the republican nominee. I only mention that to illustrate that even when getting crossover votes I do not think Hillary could pick up any. I do not think republican females would vote for her just because if anyone is putting eggs in that basket they can forget about it. My wife doesn't even like her, a solid Democrat.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Ain't gonna happen. She will energize the tea party to come out for whatever the R are running.
I simply don't see how she wins the general election.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Of the females in my family (13 that I communicate with), none (D or R) like HRC.
Of the males (too many to count) only one would consider her.
When it comes to friends it is pretty much the same.
My question is, how long does the DNC think we will hold our noses?
Like the BLM movement, I think many of us are ready to tear it all down.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)and why is now a right-wing smear? Interesting
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)candidate cause the rw lies about her.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I'm saying she's radioactive at this point. It's why the DNC is courting other candidates.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)active kinda sorta like, needs to be dumped, dontcha think?
who is saying it?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)what that means.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)That's the criteria. Everything else is conjecture.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)understood what sea means?
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
HFRN
(1,469 posts)all criticism of her sell out of tech workers with the H-1b visa program is racism and xenophobia
they have no case for her, only labels for anyone who doesn't support her
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)I guess it is just to hard to understand that some of us just don't like what she is about.
short circuit
(145 posts)Just Democrats are not going to be enough. Independents are going to take a look elsewhere, if Bernie is not the nominee because they see Clinton as the status quo and have no real reason to vote for the same as usual. Bernie offers an opportunity to get all kinds of crossover appeal, and he will get them if he is the nominee.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)pnwmom
(109,435 posts)and paying attention, and still has a memory, hasn't forgotten that witch-hunt.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)you tried to pretend that had a thing to do with this election cycle.
If I wanted to give the GOP fodder, I would point them to pnwmom on DU.
pnwmom
(109,435 posts)in their continuing efforts to take down HRC.
Forewarned is forearmed.
Either you didn't understand what I posted or you are one of the haters ready to take down HRC.
Yes indeed, "Forewarned is forearmed".
Zorra
(27,670 posts)and independents/other will never vote for her.
Younger voters will just stay home, because as POTUS she offers them nothing but increased hopelessness.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)"bashing or hating" ... that's a reactionary tactic in and of itself. Right now, in this moment, with the information and time that it is, I don't see either of them the party's candidate.
And in Hillary's behalf, perhaps, none of the "scandals" have ever been proven, to my knowledge. But the general voter may research and listen to logic, but votes with their emotions. That's where perception counts.
dsc
(52,550 posts)just what do you think the media and Republicans will do next? Really, just what do you think they will do? Here is a big fat hint. Bernie will be the next person who will have a great big naughty scandal. And it won't matter if it is true or not he will be toast. Then when he drops out, O'Malley will have a great big naughty scandal. And it won't matter if it is true or not, he will be toast. Then it will be Chaffee and so on.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)She needs to do whatever she thinks is right and, as far as I can tell, she wants to be president no matter what the cost to the nation or the world -- much like her husband. But that's just my own assessment. The fact is that the MSM has been demonizing the Clintons for decades now, rightly or wrongly, and it brings in ratings when they do. For the Republicans it's fodder. That's the history of the Clintons. Neither Bernie nor O'Malley have that kind of history.
dsc
(52,550 posts)until he actually started beating Republicans. Before Clinton it was Carter who was public enemy number one and before him Johnson and before him Kennedy and before him Truman and before him FDR.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)It was her downfall in 2008 and it will be her downfall this time. Deny it all you want but it's the reality, fairly or unfairly.
dsc
(52,550 posts)Bernie will be next to go. We were told all through the primaries in 2004 that Dean was responsible for his bad relationship with the press and that Kerry would be immune to it. Yea, that worked out so very well.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)dsc
(52,550 posts)and the oh so pure Kerry didn't, and that worked out oh so well. I am sure that the GOP won't make hay of a socialist who literally honeymooned in the Soviet Union. No, not at all.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)who was supposed to take out the chicken hawk Bush. And it was also his "turn" in 2004. I'm sure that the Democrats who took out Dean thought he had "baggage," but they really thought they could win better with a war hero.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)As you said, "whether true or not", many voters are seeing Hillary as dishonest and arrogant. Will they still vote for her despite those qualms?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Not to threadjack my own thread but I just saw your Tom Waitts sig line. LOL! I've always loved your posts but a Tom Waitts fan too?
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Agreed, Hillary is toast. Her support is dropping as she is now fully marred in controversy. She's a completely polarizing figure and as much as I hate to agree with Ann Coulter, she is correct in her assertion that a HRC nomination would bring out the GOP base in droves and how Sanders is the real threat.
I see her as a corporate blue dog and nothing less, whose big donors are wall street and banks. Her voting against minimum wage while a senator isn't going to help her either and her support of TPP, KXL and NAFTA also won't. I wasn't for her when she was running against Obama and I'm not for her now against Sanders. She isn't what we need as a country and the majority of American's now see her as untrustworthy.
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)Get your hawkeyes to the internet and find it. She introduced and sponsored bills to increase the minimum wage 5 times.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)puzzling, is't it?
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
MoveIt
(399 posts)than I trust you.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)lewebley3 knows what?
This Dem trusts Bernie Sanders over the DNC chosen one.
I am not alone.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)endorsements of 118 current Congressional members and 15 former Congressional members.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)are in the single digits, right. I'm not sure how beneficial Congressional endorsements are these days.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Congress' on the whole.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Congressional endorsements in the fist place or did you forget?
NowSam
(1,252 posts)I am sorry if this aggravates but I have to ask: Her voting record - has it been consistently in accordance with your values? If so, which issues? Is she a dynamic, inspiring leader? If so how?
I see Bernie's record and see someone who has always voted in the best interests of the people. He speaks truth, off the cuff, doesn't require polling or gauge the political winds before speaking on any issue.
I just don't see the appeal at all of HRC. I am so sorry if this aggravates her fans.
My vote would have nothing to do with the email thing at all. Just on the issues and who I think has our back as a nation. So you know its Bernie for me.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Most people I know who are close to Clinton ideologically vote republican.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)On the Issues:
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Yep, pretty much in accordance with my values.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)Have been consistently correct while Hillary voted for the war, evolved on marriage rights, can't make a decision on her opionion of TPP, She supports off shore drilling, supports the keystone pipeline, she supported the unfortunately titled patriot act, etc etc. Why would you prefer her over Bernie who is so much more in tune with the philosophies that benefit the 99%?
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...Clinton will have the financial resources and the political skills to win a national election with Republicans and Independents voting. Nobody's shown me a framework in which Sanders can win, rally crowds notwithstanding.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)And could very well spend the super pac fortune she is raising from the same folks who support Jeb only to lose to Jeb and then we have another Bush.
I see Bernie as a true alternative to the same old same old and I think he can win. If it does end up being Hillary I would probably hold my nose and vote for her and if my man wins the primary than I hope you will vote for him.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Then explain it to me. Which States does he win? Where does he get the resources? How does he counter the billion in Republican funding that'll be thrown against him.
NowSam
(1,252 posts)I wish I knew answers to your question. Maybe someone here will provide some supporting evidence. I think the huge crowds and support he is getting from the people and the fact that he has in fact won the internet shows he has the will of the people behind him. Nothing is as powerful as an idea who's time has come.
Anyway, if you had satisfactory explanation of how exactly he can win this thing, would you then join Bernie? Or would you continue to support HRC?
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)...but that was based on hard analysis, not platitudes like "his message will resonate with the voters". My impression of Sanders today is that he taps into a disaffected share of the Party, but that share has a cap. And his approach to fundraising simply won't produce the assets he'll need after IA and NH are gone. Think of Super Tuesday, with ten States in play, including Texas, which is geographically immense, and where he'll need to attract 1 M votes.
As for the huge crowds, I look at Howard Dean and Ron Paul. Attracting enthusiastic followers doesn't translate to turning out voters.
You comment: "Maybe someone here will provide some supporting evidence". I've been asking for that, without success, since April.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Just have somebody do an audit of each candidates campaign contributions.
Whoever has the most $$$$$ becomes POTUS.
So the only reason you support Hillary Clinton is that she has tons of money.
That's pitiful, I'm pretty sure Trump has more.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)I think about thr voters in key states, and whether they're likely to vote for a midlle of the riad candidate or a leftist, self described Socialist.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)How the fuck do you know? There hasn't been an actual leftist running in, um, EVER.
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)I'll refer you to Dennis Kucinich in the 2008 Primary and George McGover in the 1972 GE.
In any event, given the possible alternative, I won't take the risk until someone gives me a convincing explanation of how Sanders DOES win.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Direct quote.
pnwmom
(109,435 posts)It sounds like you're advocating buckling under to the Rethug vendetta of lies against her.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)I'm stating the obvious.
pnwmom
(109,435 posts)except to people who never trusted Hillary in the first place.
Those of us who have supported her as she survived unfair attack after attack don't share your opinion.
Cosmocat
(14,897 posts)such time as Bernie becomes the democratic front runner and is trashed over an endless stream of bullshit, too ...
pnwmom
(109,435 posts)And if he doesn't, they'll drum some up.
And he's an atheist!
And he'll say, so what?
But to all the same Rethugs who hate Hillary, it will matter.
And to the people who don't hate Hillary, it won't matter.
Haters gotta hate. We'll never find a candidate to suit them.
I will vote berniein the primary, but dont see hill as the devil in the context of politics in this day and age, and sure as fuck have no tolerance in letting the rs dictate who we elect because they throw an endless stream of shit at them.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)She's vulnerable big time.
And I think that's why there is all the Biden chatter.
Replace one Corporatist with another.
oasis
(51,483 posts)The Clinton machine will bulldoze this to the side of the road and keep on trucking.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And that is EXACTLY why change is needed and we need to be done with the Clintons.
No more Bush...No more Clinton.
oasis
(51,483 posts)Hill will get past this latest GOP and media manufactured bullshit in time to gear up for the GE.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)We cannot allow the GOP and MSM to dictate who our candidates will be based on ridiculous attacks. We must learn to defend our candidates against these kin of attacks. These kind of attacks don't work on Republican candidates but they do on Democratic candidates. Why is that?
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)it has to do with perception of the American public. They're not political wonks like DUers are. They don't question, they don't research, they let the MSM do their thinking for them. She has no populist message, she comes with incredible baggage and people already don't like her (see her disapproval ratings). She's a liability.
pnwmom
(109,435 posts)among other ridiculous charges.
The people who like her are used to her being attacked. Unsupported accusations won't change their minds. And the people who hate her are used to hating her, and this won't change their minds.
HFRN
(1,469 posts)Clinton's free-trade advocacy is hitting labor where it lives
Competition helps both sides, she says. A Buffalo deal yielded a few jobs.
July 30, 2007|Peter Wallsten | Times Staff Writer
BUFFALO, N.Y. To many labor unions and high-tech workers, the Indian giant Tata Consultancy Services is a serious threat -- a company that has helped move U.S. jobs to India while sending thousands of foreign workers on temporary visas to the United States.
So when Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) came to this struggling city to announce some good news, her choice of partners was something of a surprise.
Joining Tata Consultancy's chief executive at a downtown hotel, Clinton announced that the company would open a software development office in Buffalo and form a research partnership with a local university. Tata told a newspaper that it might hire as many as 200 people.
The 2003 announcement had clear benefits for the senator and the company: Tata received good press, and Clinton burnished her credentials as a champion for New York's depressed upstate region.
But less noticed was how the event signaled that Clinton, who portrays herself as a fighter for American workers, had aligned herself with Indian American business leaders and Indian companies feared by the labor movement.
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/30/nation/na-buffalo30
"Outsourcing will continue. There is no way to legislate against reality. We are not in favor of putting up fences."
Hillary had said on Feb 28 in India, according to a report by the Asia Times. Kirwin also cited her position as co-chair of the Friends of India Caucus in the Senate, a group of senators that supports issues important to India, including outsourcing and H-1B and L-1 visas, as another reason behind the ITPAA's decision to give the award to the prospective Democrat presidential nominee.
(Press Trust Of India, 3/5/05)
NowSam
(1,252 posts)I think the people have had enough of being duped with bait and switch candidates.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)I seriously doubt she would be prosecuted though since this administration has a record of not prosecuting the powerful/wealthy. I also seriously doubt she will drop out even if Biden does enter the race. She is more likely to go all the way until the last vote is cast in June 2016 because, "You know, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June."
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Here:
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Oh, who am I kidding...
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)We tried!
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)...the sun, the moon, and the truth."
Buddha.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)In a filmed meeting with editors of a newspaper in South Dakota, which holds the final primary of the Democratic race on June 3, Clinton hinted that she might not concede the nomination to Obama until the August nominating convention.
"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?" Clinton said. "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it."
from the Guardian - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/may/23/hillaryclinton.barackobama
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Speaks volumes of their morality .
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)It's mind blowing to me to see her Kennedy comment completely dismissed as if it isn't troublesome.
Cheers!
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)No, but it's heavily implied. You can choose to say her Bobbie Kennedy comment was just some benign musing but you can't honestly believe that 100 percent. Let's be honest. She later apologized for it so even Hillary felt it was inappropriate.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)most other are pretty clear on the natrure of Hillary Clinton's political ambitions.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)She earned my irrevocable utter disdain during that primary.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)I think that Bobby Kennedy quote was when my opinion of her went from "meh" to
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)And it didn't help when her husband, disbarred lawyer Bill Clinton, tried to influence Ted Kennedy to support her by making some crude racist joke about Obama. Kennedy to his credit told Clinton to knock off the crap or he'd support Obama. Of course Clinton couldn't shut his piehole and Kennedy did in fact endorse Obama.
Hmm, I wonder if her cute little Bobby Kennedy remark came after Ted endorsed Obama?
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)I'm simply not excited by Hillary. I think she's a better candidate than Bernie, and might be the Democratic nominee, but I have real concerns about whether she can win the GE. Frankly, history is against whomever the Dems end up nominating.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)TeddyR
(2,493 posts)TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Cause you know , we must do what's best for the party and forget about your own actual needs in life . Support this ideal at all costs etc .
morningfog
(18,115 posts)she is not the Democratic nominee.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)brooklynite
(96,882 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)It doesn't matter if allegations against a Democratic candidate are true or false. As long as the media has its bone and the Republicans run with it, we have no choice but to submit.
That's a pretty weak and pathetic argument.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)GD is actually somewhat nice with all the main disruptors in here yanking Sanders voters chains. At least they are in this forum pretending to care about whatever it is they hate about Sanders and not doing their SSDD disrupting of GD.
All HAIL GD-P!
Now, as far as HRC goes...I still don't see the huge impact of these emails on her private server hurting her in the longrun. Not when Jeb Bush has the same (actually much worse) a problem.
If it was JUST HRC and no other person, I would say she is in trouble...however they can bury this story with the FACT that her main rival has the EXACT same problem!
still_one
(95,621 posts)didn't work out for the MSM or the right wingers either
Next
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)You ma'am are correct. As I've said before this is a big distraction from the real political discourse she wants to engage in. Instead she's got to deal with a mess she started and she has no one to blame but herself. I'm tired of all these apologist blaming the right wing and MSM for something SHE DID as Secretary of State. They didn't plant the server anymore than she deleted emails about Benghazi (I'll add this for people who think the last line is for real). She violated set policy that she and her supporters are going to have to accept (whether they want to or not). Denying that any wrong doing was committed is a dog whistle for the right wingers and the media to go after her.
Quite frankly I'm tired of hearing about that stupid server.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)or Walker or Jindal or Perry since all of them also used private email servers). Once you have called the Republican nomination process, too, let's decide the general election as soon as possible (I'm so tired of actually waiting on voters).
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)[/center][/font][hr]