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Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:17 AM Aug 2015

At this point, it doesn't matter if Hillary is or is not guilty of security breaches,

Last edited Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:07 PM - Edit history (1)

politically, she's toast. Seriously, the MSM has got it's bone and they're not going to let go of it and the Republicans will run with it. It's all we're hearing about her now, what will it be like if she were to get the nomination? The right wing crazies will be out in droves to vote AGAINST her in the General. Just one more reason she absolutely should NOT be the nominee.

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At this point, it doesn't matter if Hillary is or is not guilty of security breaches, (Original Post) Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 OP
Your concern is noted. Metric System Aug 2015 #1
Indeed...the "give it up because folks can not see through so many lies and smears" is a special "concern"! Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #7
A lot of energy spent LuvLoogie Aug 2015 #8
Voters who can remember the 90's will avoid her like the plague tularetom Aug 2015 #2
Which is how she lost to Obama the first time -- Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #9
...and yet she got as many Primary votes as the "baggage free" Barack Obama brooklynite Aug 2015 #44
Obama sandbagged it toward the end of the primaries.. frylock Aug 2015 #47
So your explanation is that Obama allowed millions of Clinton votes to go unchallenged? brooklynite Aug 2015 #52
Correct. And then, of course, there was MI and FL.. frylock Aug 2015 #53
A reminder that Florida and Michigan were discounted and Clinton STILL got as many votes... brooklynite Aug 2015 #69
and still lost. frylock Aug 2015 #114
90s had jack to do with her losing - October 11, 2002 Cosmocat Aug 2015 #78
In a nutshell, that's the bottom-line. She's can't be the D candidate under these circumstances. leveymg Aug 2015 #117
In 2008, we KNEW who Hillary was, bvar22 Aug 2015 #198
Yes. In some respects, votes FOR Obama were actually votes AGAINST Hillary RufusTFirefly Aug 2015 #202
My vote for OBama waqs indeed... bvar22 Aug 2015 #204
I remember the 90s and voted for Bill Clinton 4 times counting primaries. LuvLoogie Aug 2015 #11
I'm half as guilty as you, I only voted for disbarred lawyer Bill Clinton twice tularetom Aug 2015 #20
Constant baggage and I'm tired of her. 840high Aug 2015 #54
It does matter. DURHAM D Aug 2015 #3
I think you and Hillary's other supporters missed the entire point Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #10
Facts and fighting back is what matters. DURHAM D Aug 2015 #16
Tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #18
Facts and fighting back are what matters???? bvar22 Aug 2015 #199
And our point is that Republicans will go after whoever is the nominee. It's delusional to think Metric System Aug 2015 #21
But with Hillary they have abundant ammunition Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #25
All I know is that the Clintons are still standing after years of "scandals." They are battle-tested Metric System Aug 2015 #40
And I know that there is such a thing as critial mass Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #43
So true Tommy2Tone Aug 2015 #158
Her lead is with Democrats... malokvale77 Aug 2015 #164
Slipping with Dems? Tommy2Tone Aug 2015 #175
I have no idea where you are getting that number from. malokvale77 Aug 2015 #178
I agree and also... cannabis_flower Aug 2015 #27
The cloth comment made her look stupid. 840high Aug 2015 #56
It should matter. Agschmid Aug 2015 #93
I do stand on my morals. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #97
Everyone "evolved" on marriage equality, and to pretend otherwise is rediculous. Agschmid Aug 2015 #119
When did Bernie Sanders ever state, Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #127
Everyone evolved on that issue. Agschmid Aug 2015 #130
Some of us didn't have to evolve Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #142
I call bullshit. Agschmid Aug 2015 #144
I've ALWAYS been for marriage equality. Always. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #145
No. Agschmid Aug 2015 #146
Bullshit indeed. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #147
That is bullshit. I never needed to "evolve" on marriage equality. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #150
When were you born? Control-Z Aug 2015 #157
1955 Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #161
I don't think that is true. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #149
I'm gay. Agschmid Aug 2015 #155
You weren't always for marriage equality? Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #163
No, not everyone evolved. malokvale77 Aug 2015 #165
Yes everyone. Agschmid Aug 2015 #169
Nope! nt malokvale77 Aug 2015 #173
I'm glad you've been able to have a life that was that simple. Agschmid Aug 2015 #188
Yes it has been pretty simple. malokvale77 Aug 2015 #190
I hear you and appreciate your comments. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #195
Thank you. Agschmid Aug 2015 #196
Lyndon Johnson once said he wanted to accuse his opponent of f***ing pigs. When tblue37 Aug 2015 #131
Yes and I hope her campaign pulls all the stops to nip this in the bud. Mojorabbit Aug 2015 #137
Nonsense...I hear your ludicrous and illogical "point" a lot from certain "supporters"..."forget they are all lies and smears, there are too many to fight"? Fred Sanders Aug 2015 #4
Amen musiclawyer Aug 2015 #5
True, Bernie has "thimble size baggage". Trouble is oasis Aug 2015 #73
You claim the fact that Bernie can not be bought is a NEGATIVE? That is the problem Vincardog Aug 2015 #128
To most readers, "having a thimble sized war chest" means oasis Aug 2015 #133
I stand ready to help Bernie do just that. Why not join the revolution and Vincardog Aug 2015 #134
All the enthusiasm in the world is no match for oasis Aug 2015 #135
Enjoy the ride when the tsunamie hits you. Vincardog Aug 2015 #136
When you roll with the Clintons it's oasis Aug 2015 #138
So, you concede that dollars -- not votes -- win elections? RufusTFirefly Aug 2015 #203
Don't matter what you or I think, the Citizen's United oasis Aug 2015 #206
Oh, I see. The Devil made her do it. RufusTFirefly Aug 2015 #208
You don't buy it? Ha! oasis Aug 2015 #212
Over a year to the election HassleCat Aug 2015 #6
The difference between Benghazi and the email issues Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #14
I care little about the email scandal bigwillq Aug 2015 #12
And THAT"S what really matters. That you don't like her... LuvLoogie Aug 2015 #15
I don't like Hillary. bigwillq Aug 2015 #19
Maybe you guys who like her... malokvale77 Aug 2015 #166
I care about the email scandal only in how Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #17
Sure. You're just interested in other people's interest. randome Aug 2015 #31
I find it amusing that someone Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #33
Quick! Better tell Tom Harkin... LuvLoogie Aug 2015 #13
LOL...an endorsement from Tom (Mr Monsanto) Harkin????? bvar22 Aug 2015 #118
He is Iowa's favorite son. And that probably matters to Iowa voters and the caucuses. LuvLoogie Aug 2015 #132
Why don't I open another thread? bvar22 Aug 2015 #201
Does Harkin's endorsement help Hillary in Iowa? LuvLoogie Aug 2015 #209
This place is full of Chicken Little posts. Lisa D Aug 2015 #22
Chicken Liittle had no hidden agenda. oasis Aug 2015 #65
Would you mind fixing the typo in your post title? winter is coming Aug 2015 #23
LOL! Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #26
She will not draw the marginalized voters hootinholler Aug 2015 #24
You nailed it. Puzzledtraveller Aug 2015 #103
No R is going to cross for Hillary hootinholler Aug 2015 #109
Right here... malokvale77 Aug 2015 #171
rw smear rewarded with unelectability? lets just roll over in a submissive pee all over ourselves. seabeyond Aug 2015 #28
Doubt about Hillary's electability in the general Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #35
no. right here on du, a dmeocratic oard, we are being told we are suppose to dump our democratic seabeyond Aug 2015 #60
Who said anything about dumping? Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #63
"I'm saying she's radioactive at this point." lol, well. hm. radioactive? i dunno, something radio seabeyond Aug 2015 #66
Absolutely no idea Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #68
"63. Who said anything about dumping?" you. she is after all. radioactive. seabeyond Aug 2015 #96
Direct quote. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #98
oh my god.... you actually made me laugh. ok. whatever seabeyond Aug 2015 #99
Has anybody ever... malokvale77 Aug 2015 #176
What's a dmeocratic oard? BeanMusical Aug 2015 #90
brilliant. you took me down.... seabeyond Aug 2015 #92
Not as brilliant as your word salad. BeanMusical Aug 2015 #94
blah blah blah seabeyond Aug 2015 #95
heh Bobbie Jo Aug 2015 #141
all criticism of Hillary is a right wing smear, misogyny, or just 'Hillary-Hate'(tm) HFRN Aug 2015 #104
Yeah... malokvale77 Aug 2015 #180
Fine - you tell me what political spectrum Clinton will attract in the GE short circuit Aug 2015 #115
"what political spectrum Clinton will attract in the GE" L0oniX Aug 2015 #214
She murdered Vince Foster, too. We must never forget. randome Aug 2015 #29
You're the only one bringing up Vince Foster. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #36
I thought of Vince Foster independently. Anyone who was awake back then pnwmom Aug 2015 #84
But yet... malokvale77 Aug 2015 #183
It shows the depths to which the haters will sink, pnwmom Aug 2015 #185
OK malokvale77 Aug 2015 #187
She'd be a lame duck nominee. The RW crazies will come out in droves, Zorra Aug 2015 #30
I don't think it's just Hillary fatigue, it's Clinton/Bush fatigue. Nor is it libdem4life Aug 2015 #32
So let's say you are correct and she drops out tomorrow dsc Aug 2015 #34
I never suggested she drop out. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #39
Newsflash Clinton didn't have that history either dsc Aug 2015 #46
Hillary brings baggage. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #48
and again as sure as the sun rises in the east dsc Aug 2015 #57
And again you avoid the key word here and that is "baggage." Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #58
well Dean had baggage we were assured dsc Aug 2015 #59
Dean was taken out by the Democrats. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #62
No, you mis-remember. Kerry was a war hero BuelahWitch Aug 2015 #140
It's the perception of dishonesty and arrogance that counts. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #37
. . . Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #41
A great writer and performer of songs for the discerning. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #50
Indeed. nt malokvale77 Aug 2015 #186
Correct pinebox Aug 2015 #38
When did she vote against the minimum wage? OKNancy Aug 2015 #42
She also voted against the Bush Tax Cuts for the 1% brooklynite Aug 2015 #45
Hillary wil be the Dem nominee: Sanders is not Dem: Dem's cannot trust him or his campaign lewebley3 Aug 2015 #49
The People Trust Bernie - The Party Does Not cantbeserious Aug 2015 #79
I trust Sanders more MoveIt Aug 2015 #113
Because... malokvale77 Aug 2015 #189
With a choice of the two, Hillary or Bernie, I prefer a mover and shaker, one who has the Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #51
You do know that Congress' approval ratings Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #55
Sure do, the approval ratings is about Bernie also, don't think I would push this issue. Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #102
Actually, Bernie's individual ratings are much better than Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #105
He is a part of a low rated congress, not a feature I would promote. Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #107
You were the one promoting Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #108
Even without the email thing what is the appeal of HRC? Seriously NowSam Aug 2015 #61
The question of the year Doctor_J Aug 2015 #64
Right? Because her votes in the Senate served their agenda NowSam Aug 2015 #67
A pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-environment, pro-immigration, anti-Bush Tax Cuts Democrat? brooklynite Aug 2015 #70
Bernie is all of those things and his votes on the issues that have impacted the world NowSam Aug 2015 #72
Because if Bernie loses, then I get none of those values... brooklynite Aug 2015 #74
Well I sure don't think HRC is inevitable NowSam Aug 2015 #110
"I think he can win" brooklynite Aug 2015 #111
If you believed he could win would you support Bernie instead of HRC? NowSam Aug 2015 #116
In 2008 I switched from Clinton to Obama when I became convinced HE could win... brooklynite Aug 2015 #121
Why have an election at all? tularetom Aug 2015 #153
No, but thanks for your steteotypes... brooklynite Aug 2015 #181
Yeah god forbid anybody would ever vote for a (gasp) LEFTIST!! tularetom Aug 2015 #191
Such language! brooklynite Aug 2015 #192
We should cower before the RW and GOP apparently. JoePhilly Aug 2015 #71
Well, if that's what you feel you must do. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #75
Except I'm not the one recommedning that course of action. JoePhilly Aug 2015 #77
Exactly where did I say that? Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #87
You're the one saying her campaign has already been lost. pnwmom Aug 2015 #85
I'm not advocating anything. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #91
You're stating your opinion, which is not obvious pnwmom Aug 2015 #101
I am sure you will think this is a valid POV Cosmocat Aug 2015 #76
He has Communist connections! pnwmom Aug 2015 #88
Yep Cosmocat Aug 2015 #197
Fully agree. SoapBox Aug 2015 #80
The Clintons have weathered 20+ years of swiftboating. oasis Aug 2015 #81
Hmmm...just like Teflon Ron! SoapBox Aug 2015 #86
The media has fueled itself in its dislike for the Clintons. oasis Aug 2015 #100
I have to disagree. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #82
It has nothing to do with "allowing" Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #89
Yeah, it does matter. She's already survived accusations of murdering Vince Foster, pnwmom Aug 2015 #83
She sold out tech workers HFRN Aug 2015 #106
Not surprised NowSam Aug 2015 #112
She may have violated the Federal Records Act and FOIA. AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #120
Are you implying that "they" would assassinate Bernie Sanders? brooklynite Aug 2015 #122
No, I'm saying she implied that in '08. AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #123
And who made THAT implication? brooklynite Aug 2015 #124
She did. <nt> AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #125
Care to show us the evidence? brooklynite Aug 2015 #126
Her words. I posted the video above. <nt> AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #139
I gave the printed link, not sure if it matters. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #152
"Three things cannot be long hidden, AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #154
Here ya go - Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #151
Nice.... TheFarS1de Aug 2015 #174
I wish we could reach some agreement here. Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #194
Point to the comment where she thought Obama would be assasinated brooklynite Aug 2015 #182
Did she point blank say it? Juicy_Bellows Aug 2015 #193
The only person you are kidding is yourself FlatBaroque Aug 2015 #207
Holy. Shit. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #167
She's a peach! AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #168
God, I completely forgot about THAT little gem!!! tularetom Aug 2015 #156
My regard for her was irreparably damaged by that primary. AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #159
You got that right, the whole primary was a CF for her tularetom Aug 2015 #162
As a lifelong Democrat TeddyR Aug 2015 #129
Facts never mattered to Hillary bashers, so this OP is not the least bit surprising. DanTex Aug 2015 #143
What facts did the OP get wrong here? TeddyR Aug 2015 #148
The fact that they are'nt towing the official party line . TheFarS1de Aug 2015 #172
Hillary Clinton will never be president. Let's hope, for our sake, morningfog Aug 2015 #160
Bernie Sanders will never be President. See? Opinions are like assholes... Metric System Aug 2015 #170
Indeed. Point to any evidence that Sanders has a BETTER chance than Climton. brooklynite Aug 2015 #184
So what you're saying is that we have to let the media and the GOPers pick our candidates Cali_Democrat Aug 2015 #177
Don't stop...belieeeeevin'! alcibiades_mystery Aug 2015 #179
I wish they could have a GD-P forum all year. Rex Aug 2015 #200
Yup, that is what happened with Ayres and Reverend Wright in regard to Obama.... Oh wait, that still_one Aug 2015 #205
Plain and simple Server Gate is Hillary's Monica Lewinsky moment right now d_legendary1 Aug 2015 #210
If it is already over, where is the victory party? Who won on the Republican side (I assume not Bush Attorney in Texas Aug 2015 #211
You Third-Wayin', Authoritarian Fascist! randome Aug 2015 #213

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
7. Indeed...the "give it up because folks can not see through so many lies and smears" is a special "concern"!
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:29 AM
Aug 2015

This just another "supporter" so concerned as to give such sincere advice for Clinton to quit while the quitting is good, apparently not being aware the election is NEXT YEAR post is exactly why DU sucks so much, lately.

LuvLoogie

(7,222 posts)
8. A lot of energy spent
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:29 AM
Aug 2015

on "better not vote for Hillary and here's why" threads here. What a waste of bandwidth.

These OPs...

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
2. Voters who can remember the 90's will avoid her like the plague
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:24 AM
Aug 2015

One scandal after the other. Rumors and allegations every day.

In spite of Clinton's appeasement of the right wing, it never stopped.

It isn't just republicans who don't want to go back to that.

She might be able to buy the nomination but she's dead meat in the general election.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
9. Which is how she lost to Obama the first time --
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:29 AM
Aug 2015

her long, less-than-stellar history. Both Hillary and Obama were corporate friendly but Obama didn't come with Hillary's baggage. That baggage hasn't gone anywhere and with this new e-mail "scandal," it just reinforces people's prejudices against her. And you're right, it's not only Republicans who will remember that history.

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
44. ...and yet she got as many Primary votes as the "baggage free" Barack Obama
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:33 PM
Aug 2015

...so I'm guessing they saw something worthwhile.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
47. Obama sandbagged it toward the end of the primaries..
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:38 PM
Aug 2015

That's the only reason she looked good on paper.

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
52. So your explanation is that Obama allowed millions of Clinton votes to go unchallenged?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:54 PM
Aug 2015

Right, let's go with that one.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
53. Correct. And then, of course, there was MI and FL..
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:00 PM
Aug 2015

you recall what happened in those states, don't you?

Cosmocat

(14,660 posts)
78. 90s had jack to do with her losing - October 11, 2002
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:46 PM
Aug 2015

was the moment she lost the 2008 primary.

If she didn't sell out that day, BHO's never would have had the air to beat her ...

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
198. In 2008, we KNEW who Hillary was,
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:41 PM
Aug 2015

but Obama had no real track record,
So most of America took a chance, and voted for the guy we didn't know instead of the Hillary we DID know.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
202. Yes. In some respects, votes FOR Obama were actually votes AGAINST Hillary
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:12 PM
Aug 2015

That's kind of sad when you think about it. It also makes the prospect of having her as our nominee more than just a little alarming.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
204. My vote for OBama waqs indeed...
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:28 PM
Aug 2015

..a vote AGAINST Hillary.'

I fought "Moderate Republican Policy" all my life.
Why should I vote for it now?

LuvLoogie

(7,222 posts)
11. I remember the 90s and voted for Bill Clinton 4 times counting primaries.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:32 AM
Aug 2015

I voted for Barack Obama 4 times as well. I was torn in '08.

I am really looking forward to voting for Hillary Clinton.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
20. I'm half as guilty as you, I only voted for disbarred lawyer Bill Clinton twice
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:51 AM
Aug 2015

And even then, the second time, was very reluctantly.

DURHAM D

(32,657 posts)
3. It does matter.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:25 AM
Aug 2015

I guess you like Republican and media liars across the board. Congratulations.


Hope no one ever tells a lie about you as it seems you would just accept it is fact and go hide under the bed.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
10. I think you and Hillary's other supporters missed the entire point
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:31 AM
Aug 2015

of the OP. It's this: IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S TRUE OR NOT, THE PERCEPTION AND SENSATIONALISM IS WHAT MATTERS. I find it ironic that I'm having to point out reality to the "reality-based" community.

DURHAM D

(32,657 posts)
16. Facts and fighting back is what matters.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:38 AM
Aug 2015

I assume you think President Clinton should have resigned the moment the House passed articles of impeachment.

You are the one in a fact free zone.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
18. Tell yourself whatever you need to tell yourself.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:43 AM
Aug 2015

The fact is that this "scandal" is hurting her candidacy. The fact is that trajectories don't lie, particularly consistent ones.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
199. Facts and fighting back are what matters????
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 03:53 PM
Aug 2015

I disagree.
Economic policy that reverses the transfer of wealth from the Working Class & Poor to the BILLIONAIRES
is what matters.

Metric System

(6,048 posts)
21. And our point is that Republicans will go after whoever is the nominee. It's delusional to think
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:56 AM
Aug 2015

they'll just let Bernie Sanders coast to the Presidency. Just look at the birther stuff with Obama or the swift-boating of John Kerry.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
25. But with Hillary they have abundant ammunition
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:06 PM
Aug 2015

(and she keeps handing it to them). She can't run from the scandal-ridden history, fairly or unfairly, the media is using it to boost ratings, the Republicans will use it to whip up votes. Neither Bernie nor O'Malley have anywhere near that much ammunition to give them. I don't know enough about O'Malley but the worst thing they have on Bernie is the socialist label and that has been wholly ineffective.

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
158. So true
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:03 PM
Aug 2015

The right is ignoring Sanders because he is getting smoked by Hillary. Hard to imagine Hillary having such a lead with so much baggage.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
164. Her lead is with Democrats...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:45 PM
Aug 2015

and even that is slipping.

All the s won't help her in the general.

1: The one thing that will bring RWers to the polls is their mutual hatred of the Clintons.
2: The left wing of the Democratic Party are getting tired of having to hold their nose to vote.

Tommy2Tone

(1,307 posts)
175. Slipping with Dems?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:45 PM
Aug 2015

Latest polling shows Hillary with over 80% support with Dems..Not sure Bernie's fans are Dems?

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
178. I have no idea where you are getting that number from.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:02 PM
Aug 2015

Yes Bernie supporters (fans according to you) are Democrats (and Independents and disappointed Republicans).

PS: Thank you Laura Miller (former Democratic Mayor of Dallas) for not letting Jerry Jones and his Dallas Cowboys franchise rape the taxpayers of this city.

cannabis_flower

(3,783 posts)
27. I agree and also...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:11 PM
Aug 2015

Her making jokes about it just makes her seem flippant. Like she doesn't take the issue seriously.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
93. It should matter.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:14 PM
Aug 2015

That's the end of it.

And even if it doesn't matter to the general public l, good lord stand on your morals have it matter to you.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
97. I do stand on my morals.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:20 PM
Aug 2015

That's why I could never personally support someone who voted Yes on the IWR, who voted FOR the Patriot Act, who supports the TPP and the XL Pipeline, who supported NAFTA and Welfare Reform and who had to "evolve" on marriage equality.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
119. Everyone "evolved" on marriage equality, and to pretend otherwise is rediculous.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:41 PM
Aug 2015

No one is perfect, but it appeared you are willing to believe a lie.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
127. When did Bernie Sanders ever state,
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:56 PM
Aug 2015

"I believe that marriage is, not just a bond but a sacred bond between a man and a woman . . ." or any words to that effect?

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
142. Some of us didn't have to evolve
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:05 PM
Aug 2015

and that includes Bernie Sanders. That speech of hers is a disgrace and she can't run from it.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
145. I've ALWAYS been for marriage equality. Always.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 05:50 PM
Aug 2015

I know a lot of people who didn't have to evolve on this isse. And you're certainly free to call "bullshit" to anything but to be believable you really should have proof. Now, I proved that Hillary, had to "evolve" by providing a link. Feel free to provide some proof that some of us didn't have to evolve. I've been on this board since 2001. Feel free to link to any post of mine that proves differently or a link wherein Bernie Sanders claims marriage should be between a man and a woman. If you can't, well, then, bullshit indeed.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
150. That is bullshit. I never needed to "evolve" on marriage equality.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:27 PM
Aug 2015

Ever since I learned as a child that gay peole couldn't get married I was a supporter of same sex marriage.

Unless you have a problem with lgbt rights why wouldn't you?

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
149. I don't think that is true.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:22 PM
Aug 2015

Sorry to jump in here but I am personally aware of 4 people 40+ that have always been for marriage equality. They are homosexuals, perhaps that may be where your blinders are.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
163. You weren't always for marriage equality?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:43 PM
Aug 2015

No offense meant, in my circle we've all been very passionate about marriage rights for as long as we can remember.

Cheers!

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
165. No, not everyone evolved.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:52 PM
Aug 2015

Some of us always believed in "equal rights".

PS: in order to rediculous, you must first diculous.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
169. Yes everyone.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:29 PM
Aug 2015

It's all a decision at one point, we all made it.

Clearly some of us made it at different times, but I don't deserve "street cred" for getting there first.

Guess what no matter what candidate we elect on our side, it's a whole lot better than what the other side has to offer.

I don't look diculous or rediculous I'm stating a fact, we all were raised by someone, and someone helped us become the people we are today.

I'm gay, and I had to fight years of homophobia both external and internal in order to be comfortable with who I was... I evolved. So did you, and for that matter so did everyone else.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
190. Yes it has been pretty simple.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:41 PM
Aug 2015

i have lived in poverty from the get go. It's not all that nice, but I have survived.



Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
195. I hear you and appreciate your comments.
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:39 AM
Aug 2015

However, when people here genuinely tell you they have always felt for marriage equality you should extend the possibility they're being genuine. People live through many different lenses. For some it's a slow burn, for others it's an explosion. I feel they're both real and both valid.

tblue37

(65,831 posts)
131. Lyndon Johnson once said he wanted to accuse his opponent of f***ing pigs. When
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:13 PM
Aug 2015

an aide remarked that the smear was a lie, Johnson said, "I don't care. I just want to see all the headlines saying, 'X denies that he f***s pigs' "!

The constant attacks on Hillary for so many made up "scandals" lead some people to blame her for all the noise about scandals (classic victim blaming). Some also buy into the notion that all that smoke must mean there really is a fire somewhere, but that just means that if the (very real) vast RW conspiracy slings enough mud, some will stick no matter whether, as you say, it is true or not.

But just because you spot a huge pile of BS, that doesn't mean there must be a bull in there somewhere.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
137. Yes and I hope her campaign pulls all the stops to nip this in the bud.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:45 PM
Aug 2015

Perception is everything. too many low info voters who are only seeing the headlines.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
4. Nonsense...I hear your ludicrous and illogical "point" a lot from certain "supporters"..."forget they are all lies and smears, there are too many to fight"?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:26 AM
Aug 2015

What kind of nonsense is thst...defeatism is not a liberal ideal.

Seems certain "supporters" are doing a lot more attacking, including such great "concern" as expressed, than much supporting!

musiclawyer

(2,335 posts)
5. Amen
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:28 AM
Aug 2015

I would vote for her of course if need be, but it's not necessary and too risky to risky to nominate her. Shitty uninspiring candidate, horrific campaign, pit bull media, and RW rage = bad outcome.
Bernie + O'Malley = blowout of whoever the GOP nominates ...

All her defenders will cry its unfair and the RW and MSM will go after whoever we nominate with equal venom. Yeah, all true. But fairness is irrelevant here, and both BS and MOM have thimble size baggage, are much more trusted, and are way better at shutting down media spin . And Bernie on any ticket free of HRC brings Obama 2008 level enthusiasm +

oasis

(50,445 posts)
73. True, Bernie has "thimble size baggage". Trouble is
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:41 PM
Aug 2015

he has a "thimble size" war chest to match. He won't be able to deal with the GOP tsunami of cash in the GE.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
128. You claim the fact that Bernie can not be bought is a NEGATIVE? That is the problem
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:00 PM
Aug 2015

With centrist pragmatics: they do not believe in DEMOCRACY they believe in MONEY

oasis

(50,445 posts)
133. To most readers, "having a thimble sized war chest" means
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:27 PM
Aug 2015

"having a thimble sized war chest". I never "claimed" anything else, other than his baggage matched his war chest.

Try winning the GE without slugging it out, toe to toe, against GOP campaign ads.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
134. I stand ready to help Bernie do just that. Why not join the revolution and
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:31 PM
Aug 2015

Be on the right side of history?

oasis

(50,445 posts)
135. All the enthusiasm in the world is no match for
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:42 PM
Aug 2015

The continuous flow of GOP ad money.

I'll stick with Hillary, like her, I'm in it to win it.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
203. So, you concede that dollars -- not votes -- win elections?
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:28 PM
Aug 2015

If so, perhaps you need to step back and think long and hard about the implications for what's left of our democracy.

oasis

(50,445 posts)
206. Don't matter what you or I think, the Citizen's United
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 06:53 PM
Aug 2015

ruling is in the driver's seat as far as campaign contributions are concerned. Hillary is forced to accept mountains of cash because that's what it will take to win.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
208. Oh, I see. The Devil made her do it.
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 07:21 PM
Aug 2015

Sorry, but I'm not buying that. (Literally. Or figuratively.)

That's right up there with "We had to burn the village in order to save it."

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
6. Over a year to the election
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:29 AM
Aug 2015

The Republicans tried this with the Benghazi thing, but they peaked way too early. They figured there was enough material they could draw it out, releasing one little daily tidbit after another. The email thing is following the same pattern, with some "new and shocking revelation" coming at us every two or three days. My hunch is the Republicans have miscalculated again by starting too early. By next October, we will be asking Trey Gowdy why he leaked classified information to Breitbart, and Clinton will be in the clear.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
14. The difference between Benghazi and the email issues
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:35 AM
Aug 2015

is her candidacy status. No one but hard right wingers were interested in the Benghazi stuff but as a candidate for her party's nomination, the email "scandal" is garnering more widespread scrutiny. Fairly or unfairly, it's hurting her candidacy.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
12. I care little about the email scandal
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:33 AM
Aug 2015

I just don't like Hillary. I don't want her to be the nominee. She's not what this country needs at this time, imo.

LuvLoogie

(7,222 posts)
15. And THAT"S what really matters. That you don't like her...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:36 AM
Aug 2015

So you guys should stop wasting bandwidth. We get it...

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
17. I care about the email scandal only in how
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:39 AM
Aug 2015

it would affect her in the General should she become the nominee. Technically, I couldn't tell you thing one about the subject because I'm just not interested.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
31. Sure. You're just interested in other people's interest.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:13 PM
Aug 2015

You're not fooling anyone.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
33. I find it amusing that someone
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:17 PM
Aug 2015

thinks they have any clue as to other peoples' motivations over the internet.

My interest is exactly as stated. If you want to manufacture sinister motivations that's on you.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
118. LOL...an endorsement from Tom (Mr Monsanto) Harkin?????
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:31 PM
Aug 2015

I count that as a negative.

Harkin is the man behind factory Farming of Pigs, mono cropping of GMO corn, and containing "pig waste" in million gallon ponds,
and those were the qualities President Obama was looking for when he appointed Tom (Mr Monsanto)as the Sec. of Ag (USDA).....top dog.

If you care what you eat....Harkin is NOT your guy.

LuvLoogie

(7,222 posts)
132. He is Iowa's favorite son. And that probably matters to Iowa voters and the caucuses.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:20 PM
Aug 2015

She's 20 points up in Iowa, before Tom Harkin's endorsement. The OP is about FUD affecting voters.

Hey! She even beat Bernie in the "Corn Poll" after all...

Why don't you open another thread about Hillary, Tom and Monsanto?

(Iowa is the first caucus/primary, BTW)

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
201. Why don't I open another thread?
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:07 PM
Aug 2015

Because Tom Harkin, factory Pig Farming, and mono-cropping GMO crops are all part of the same Monsanto scam.

You can't talk about Tom Harkin without talking about Millions & Millions of Gallons of Pig Shit being "held" in retaining ponds.

Tom Harkin and Pig Shit are inseparably entwined.

Lisa D

(1,532 posts)
22. This place is full of Chicken Little posts.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:57 AM
Aug 2015

The MSM *always* have a bone--especially with Democratic front-runners. Anyone who thinks the MSM or Republicans will be all sweetness and light with *any* Dem front-runner isn't dealing with reality.

The sky is *not* falling

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
23. Would you mind fixing the typo in your post title?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:01 PM
Aug 2015

Every time I see it, I imagine that the Q has outfitted HRC with a tactical pantsuit...

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
24. She will not draw the marginalized voters
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:03 PM
Aug 2015

She will not draw new voters. She will not draw the disgusted voter.

I don't see how she wins the general.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
103. You nailed it.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:39 PM
Aug 2015

There is not enough there to get the turnout necessary for a Dem win. I have however heard from some of my moderate republican friends and family that they could get behind Sanders if they do not like the republican nominee. I only mention that to illustrate that even when getting crossover votes I do not think Hillary could pick up any. I do not think republican females would vote for her just because if anyone is putting eggs in that basket they can forget about it. My wife doesn't even like her, a solid Democrat.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
109. No R is going to cross for Hillary
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:57 PM
Aug 2015

Ain't gonna happen. She will energize the tea party to come out for whatever the R are running.

I simply don't see how she wins the general election.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
171. Right here...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:33 PM
Aug 2015

Of the females in my family (13 that I communicate with), none (D or R) like HRC.

Of the males (too many to count) only one would consider her.

When it comes to friends it is pretty much the same.

My question is, how long does the DNC think we will hold our noses?

Like the BLM movement, I think many of us are ready to tear it all down.



 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
28. rw smear rewarded with unelectability? lets just roll over in a submissive pee all over ourselves.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:11 PM
Aug 2015
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
60. no. right here on du, a dmeocratic oard, we are being told we are suppose to dump our democratic
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:12 PM
Aug 2015

candidate cause the rw lies about her.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
63. Who said anything about dumping?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:17 PM
Aug 2015

I'm saying she's radioactive at this point. It's why the DNC is courting other candidates.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
66. "I'm saying she's radioactive at this point." lol, well. hm. radioactive? i dunno, something radio
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:28 PM
Aug 2015

active kinda sorta like, needs to be dumped, dontcha think?

who is saying it?

 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
104. all criticism of Hillary is a right wing smear, misogyny, or just 'Hillary-Hate'(tm)
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:43 PM
Aug 2015

all criticism of her sell out of tech workers with the H-1b visa program is racism and xenophobia

they have no case for her, only labels for anyone who doesn't support her

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
180. Yeah...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:08 PM
Aug 2015

I guess it is just to hard to understand that some of us just don't like what she is about.

 

short circuit

(145 posts)
115. Fine - you tell me what political spectrum Clinton will attract in the GE
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:20 PM
Aug 2015

Just Democrats are not going to be enough. Independents are going to take a look elsewhere, if Bernie is not the nominee because they see Clinton as the status quo and have no real reason to vote for the same as usual. Bernie offers an opportunity to get all kinds of crossover appeal, and he will get them if he is the nominee.



 

randome

(34,845 posts)
29. She murdered Vince Foster, too. We must never forget.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:11 PM
Aug 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

pnwmom

(109,178 posts)
84. I thought of Vince Foster independently. Anyone who was awake back then
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:01 PM
Aug 2015

and paying attention, and still has a memory, hasn't forgotten that witch-hunt.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
183. But yet...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:16 PM
Aug 2015

you tried to pretend that had a thing to do with this election cycle.

If I wanted to give the GOP fodder, I would point them to pnwmom on DU.

pnwmom

(109,178 posts)
185. It shows the depths to which the haters will sink,
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:19 PM
Aug 2015

in their continuing efforts to take down HRC.

Forewarned is forearmed.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
187. OK
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:28 PM
Aug 2015

Either you didn't understand what I posted or you are one of the haters ready to take down HRC.

Yes indeed, "Forewarned is forearmed".

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
30. She'd be a lame duck nominee. The RW crazies will come out in droves,
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:11 PM
Aug 2015

and independents/other will never vote for her.

Younger voters will just stay home, because as POTUS she offers them nothing but increased hopelessness.

 

libdem4life

(13,877 posts)
32. I don't think it's just Hillary fatigue, it's Clinton/Bush fatigue. Nor is it
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:15 PM
Aug 2015

"bashing or hating" ... that's a reactionary tactic in and of itself. Right now, in this moment, with the information and time that it is, I don't see either of them the party's candidate.

And in Hillary's behalf, perhaps, none of the "scandals" have ever been proven, to my knowledge. But the general voter may research and listen to logic, but votes with their emotions. That's where perception counts.

dsc

(52,264 posts)
34. So let's say you are correct and she drops out tomorrow
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:17 PM
Aug 2015

just what do you think the media and Republicans will do next? Really, just what do you think they will do? Here is a big fat hint. Bernie will be the next person who will have a great big naughty scandal. And it won't matter if it is true or not he will be toast. Then when he drops out, O'Malley will have a great big naughty scandal. And it won't matter if it is true or not, he will be toast. Then it will be Chaffee and so on.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
39. I never suggested she drop out.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:27 PM
Aug 2015

She needs to do whatever she thinks is right and, as far as I can tell, she wants to be president no matter what the cost to the nation or the world -- much like her husband. But that's just my own assessment. The fact is that the MSM has been demonizing the Clintons for decades now, rightly or wrongly, and it brings in ratings when they do. For the Republicans it's fodder. That's the history of the Clintons. Neither Bernie nor O'Malley have that kind of history.

dsc

(52,264 posts)
46. Newsflash Clinton didn't have that history either
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:37 PM
Aug 2015

until he actually started beating Republicans. Before Clinton it was Carter who was public enemy number one and before him Johnson and before him Kennedy and before him Truman and before him FDR.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
48. Hillary brings baggage.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:40 PM
Aug 2015

It was her downfall in 2008 and it will be her downfall this time. Deny it all you want but it's the reality, fairly or unfairly.

dsc

(52,264 posts)
57. and again as sure as the sun rises in the east
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:07 PM
Aug 2015

Bernie will be next to go. We were told all through the primaries in 2004 that Dean was responsible for his bad relationship with the press and that Kerry would be immune to it. Yea, that worked out so very well.

dsc

(52,264 posts)
59. well Dean had baggage we were assured
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:11 PM
Aug 2015

and the oh so pure Kerry didn't, and that worked out oh so well. I am sure that the GOP won't make hay of a socialist who literally honeymooned in the Soviet Union. No, not at all.

BuelahWitch

(9,083 posts)
140. No, you mis-remember. Kerry was a war hero
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:56 PM
Aug 2015

who was supposed to take out the chicken hawk Bush. And it was also his "turn" in 2004. I'm sure that the Democrats who took out Dean thought he had "baggage," but they really thought they could win better with a war hero.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
37. It's the perception of dishonesty and arrogance that counts.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:24 PM
Aug 2015

As you said, "whether true or not", many voters are seeing Hillary as dishonest and arrogant. Will they still vote for her despite those qualms?

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
41. . . .
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:31 PM
Aug 2015

Not to threadjack my own thread but I just saw your Tom Waitts sig line. LOL! I've always loved your posts but a Tom Waitts fan too?

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
38. Correct
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:27 PM
Aug 2015

Agreed, Hillary is toast. Her support is dropping as she is now fully marred in controversy. She's a completely polarizing figure and as much as I hate to agree with Ann Coulter, she is correct in her assertion that a HRC nomination would bring out the GOP base in droves and how Sanders is the real threat.

I see her as a corporate blue dog and nothing less, whose big donors are wall street and banks. Her voting against minimum wage while a senator isn't going to help her either and her support of TPP, KXL and NAFTA also won't. I wasn't for her when she was running against Obama and I'm not for her now against Sanders. She isn't what we need as a country and the majority of American's now see her as untrustworthy.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
42. When did she vote against the minimum wage?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:31 PM
Aug 2015

Get your hawkeyes to the internet and find it. She introduced and sponsored bills to increase the minimum wage 5 times.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
189. Because...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:33 PM
Aug 2015

lewebley3 knows what?

This Dem trusts Bernie Sanders over the DNC chosen one.

I am not alone.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
51. With a choice of the two, Hillary or Bernie, I prefer a mover and shaker, one who has the
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 12:50 PM
Aug 2015

endorsements of 118 current Congressional members and 15 former Congressional members.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
55. You do know that Congress' approval ratings
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:04 PM
Aug 2015

are in the single digits, right. I'm not sure how beneficial Congressional endorsements are these days.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
61. Even without the email thing what is the appeal of HRC? Seriously
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:14 PM
Aug 2015

I am sorry if this aggravates but I have to ask: Her voting record - has it been consistently in accordance with your values? If so, which issues? Is she a dynamic, inspiring leader? If so how?

I see Bernie's record and see someone who has always voted in the best interests of the people. He speaks truth, off the cuff, doesn't require polling or gauge the political winds before speaking on any issue.

I just don't see the appeal at all of HRC. I am so sorry if this aggravates her fans.

My vote would have nothing to do with the email thing at all. Just on the issues and who I think has our back as a nation. So you know its Bernie for me.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
64. The question of the year
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:21 PM
Aug 2015

Most people I know who are close to Clinton ideologically vote republican.

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
70. A pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-environment, pro-immigration, anti-Bush Tax Cuts Democrat?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:32 PM
Aug 2015

Yep, pretty much in accordance with my values.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
72. Bernie is all of those things and his votes on the issues that have impacted the world
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:38 PM
Aug 2015

Have been consistently correct while Hillary voted for the war, evolved on marriage rights, can't make a decision on her opionion of TPP, She supports off shore drilling, supports the keystone pipeline, she supported the unfortunately titled patriot act, etc etc. Why would you prefer her over Bernie who is so much more in tune with the philosophies that benefit the 99%?

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
74. Because if Bernie loses, then I get none of those values...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:42 PM
Aug 2015

...Clinton will have the financial resources and the political skills to win a national election with Republicans and Independents voting. Nobody's shown me a framework in which Sanders can win, rally crowds notwithstanding.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
110. Well I sure don't think HRC is inevitable
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:01 PM
Aug 2015

And could very well spend the super pac fortune she is raising from the same folks who support Jeb only to lose to Jeb and then we have another Bush.

I see Bernie as a true alternative to the same old same old and I think he can win. If it does end up being Hillary I would probably hold my nose and vote for her and if my man wins the primary than I hope you will vote for him.

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
111. "I think he can win"
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:03 PM
Aug 2015

Then explain it to me. Which States does he win? Where does he get the resources? How does he counter the billion in Republican funding that'll be thrown against him.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
116. If you believed he could win would you support Bernie instead of HRC?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:25 PM
Aug 2015

I wish I knew answers to your question. Maybe someone here will provide some supporting evidence. I think the huge crowds and support he is getting from the people and the fact that he has in fact won the internet shows he has the will of the people behind him. Nothing is as powerful as an idea who's time has come.

Anyway, if you had satisfactory explanation of how exactly he can win this thing, would you then join Bernie? Or would you continue to support HRC?

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
121. In 2008 I switched from Clinton to Obama when I became convinced HE could win...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:43 PM
Aug 2015

...but that was based on hard analysis, not platitudes like "his message will resonate with the voters". My impression of Sanders today is that he taps into a disaffected share of the Party, but that share has a cap. And his approach to fundraising simply won't produce the assets he'll need after IA and NH are gone. Think of Super Tuesday, with ten States in play, including Texas, which is geographically immense, and where he'll need to attract 1 M votes.

As for the huge crowds, I look at Howard Dean and Ron Paul. Attracting enthusiastic followers doesn't translate to turning out voters.

You comment: "Maybe someone here will provide some supporting evidence". I've been asking for that, without success, since April.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
153. Why have an election at all?
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:51 PM
Aug 2015

Just have somebody do an audit of each candidates campaign contributions.

Whoever has the most $$$$$ becomes POTUS.

So the only reason you support Hillary Clinton is that she has tons of money.

That's pitiful, I'm pretty sure Trump has more.

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
181. No, but thanks for your steteotypes...
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 09:14 PM
Aug 2015

I think about thr voters in key states, and whether they're likely to vote for a midlle of the riad candidate or a leftist, self described Socialist.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
191. Yeah god forbid anybody would ever vote for a (gasp) LEFTIST!!
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 11:37 PM
Aug 2015

How the fuck do you know? There hasn't been an actual leftist running in, um, EVER.

brooklynite

(96,548 posts)
192. Such language!
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 12:23 AM
Aug 2015

I'll refer you to Dennis Kucinich in the 2008 Primary and George McGover in the 1972 GE.

In any event, given the possible alternative, I won't take the risk until someone gives me a convincing explanation of how Sanders DOES win.

pnwmom

(109,178 posts)
85. You're the one saying her campaign has already been lost.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:02 PM
Aug 2015

It sounds like you're advocating buckling under to the Rethug vendetta of lies against her.

pnwmom

(109,178 posts)
101. You're stating your opinion, which is not obvious
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:36 PM
Aug 2015

except to people who never trusted Hillary in the first place.

Those of us who have supported her as she survived unfair attack after attack don't share your opinion.

Cosmocat

(14,660 posts)
76. I am sure you will think this is a valid POV
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:44 PM
Aug 2015

such time as Bernie becomes the democratic front runner and is trashed over an endless stream of bullshit, too ...

pnwmom

(109,178 posts)
88. He has Communist connections!
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:05 PM
Aug 2015

And if he doesn't, they'll drum some up.

And he's an atheist!

And he'll say, so what?

But to all the same Rethugs who hate Hillary, it will matter.
And to the people who don't hate Hillary, it won't matter.

Haters gotta hate. We'll never find a candidate to suit them.

Cosmocat

(14,660 posts)
197. Yep
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 10:52 AM
Aug 2015

I will vote berniein the primary, but dont see hill as the devil in the context of politics in this day and age, and sure as fuck have no tolerance in letting the rs dictate who we elect because they throw an endless stream of shit at them.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
80. Fully agree.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:55 PM
Aug 2015

She's vulnerable big time.

And I think that's why there is all the Biden chatter.

Replace one Corporatist with another.

oasis

(50,445 posts)
81. The Clintons have weathered 20+ years of swiftboating.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:57 PM
Aug 2015

The Clinton machine will bulldoze this to the side of the road and keep on trucking.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
86. Hmmm...just like Teflon Ron!
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:04 PM
Aug 2015

And that is EXACTLY why change is needed and we need to be done with the Clintons.

No more Bush...No more Clinton.

oasis

(50,445 posts)
100. The media has fueled itself in its dislike for the Clintons.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:31 PM
Aug 2015

Hill will get past this latest GOP and media manufactured bullshit in time to gear up for the GE.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
82. I have to disagree.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:59 PM
Aug 2015

We cannot allow the GOP and MSM to dictate who our candidates will be based on ridiculous attacks. We must learn to defend our candidates against these kin of attacks. These kind of attacks don't work on Republican candidates but they do on Democratic candidates. Why is that?

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
89. It has nothing to do with "allowing"
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:07 PM
Aug 2015

it has to do with perception of the American public. They're not political wonks like DUers are. They don't question, they don't research, they let the MSM do their thinking for them. She has no populist message, she comes with incredible baggage and people already don't like her (see her disapproval ratings). She's a liability.

pnwmom

(109,178 posts)
83. Yeah, it does matter. She's already survived accusations of murdering Vince Foster,
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 01:59 PM
Aug 2015

among other ridiculous charges.

The people who like her are used to her being attacked. Unsupported accusations won't change their minds. And the people who hate her are used to hating her, and this won't change their minds.

 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
106. She sold out tech workers
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 02:47 PM
Aug 2015


Clinton's free-trade advocacy is hitting labor where it lives
Competition helps both sides, she says. A Buffalo deal yielded a few jobs.
July 30, 2007|Peter Wallsten | Times Staff Writer


BUFFALO, N.Y. — To many labor unions and high-tech workers, the Indian giant Tata Consultancy Services is a serious threat -- a company that has helped move U.S. jobs to India while sending thousands of foreign workers on temporary visas to the United States.

So when Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) came to this struggling city to announce some good news, her choice of partners was something of a surprise.

Joining Tata Consultancy's chief executive at a downtown hotel, Clinton announced that the company would open a software development office in Buffalo and form a research partnership with a local university. Tata told a newspaper that it might hire as many as 200 people.

The 2003 announcement had clear benefits for the senator and the company: Tata received good press, and Clinton burnished her credentials as a champion for New York's depressed upstate region.

But less noticed was how the event signaled that Clinton, who portrays herself as a fighter for American workers, had aligned herself with Indian American business leaders and Indian companies feared by the labor movement.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jul/30/nation/na-buffalo30


"Outsourcing will continue. There is no way to legislate against reality. We are not in favor of putting up fences."
Hillary had said on Feb 28 in India, according to a report by the Asia Times. Kirwin also cited her position as co-chair of the ‘Friends of India Caucus’ in the Senate, a group of senators that supports issues important to India, including outsourcing and H-1B and L-1 visas, as another reason behind the ITPAA's decision to give the award to the prospective Democrat presidential nominee.”
(Press Trust Of India, 3/5/05)

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
112. Not surprised
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:03 PM
Aug 2015

I think the people have had enough of being duped with bait and switch candidates.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
120. She may have violated the Federal Records Act and FOIA.
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 03:42 PM
Aug 2015

I seriously doubt she would be prosecuted though since this administration has a record of not prosecuting the powerful/wealthy. I also seriously doubt she will drop out even if Biden does enter the race. She is more likely to go all the way until the last vote is cast in June 2016 because, "You know, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June."

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
151. Here ya go -
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:38 PM
Aug 2015

In a filmed meeting with editors of a newspaper in South Dakota, which holds the final primary of the Democratic race on June 3, Clinton hinted that she might not concede the nomination to Obama until the August nominating convention.

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?" Clinton said. "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. I don't understand it."

from the Guardian - http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/may/23/hillaryclinton.barackobama

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
194. I wish we could reach some agreement here.
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:51 AM
Aug 2015

It's mind blowing to me to see her Kennedy comment completely dismissed as if it isn't troublesome.

Cheers!

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
193. Did she point blank say it?
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 04:46 AM
Aug 2015

No, but it's heavily implied. You can choose to say her Bobbie Kennedy comment was just some benign musing but you can't honestly believe that 100 percent. Let's be honest. She later apologized for it so even Hillary felt it was inappropriate.

FlatBaroque

(3,160 posts)
207. The only person you are kidding is yourself
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 07:00 PM
Aug 2015

most other are pretty clear on the natrure of Hillary Clinton's political ambitions.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
156. God, I completely forgot about THAT little gem!!!
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 06:56 PM
Aug 2015

I think that Bobby Kennedy quote was when my opinion of her went from "meh" to

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
162. You got that right, the whole primary was a CF for her
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:42 PM
Aug 2015

And it didn't help when her husband, disbarred lawyer Bill Clinton, tried to influence Ted Kennedy to support her by making some crude racist joke about Obama. Kennedy to his credit told Clinton to knock off the crap or he'd support Obama. Of course Clinton couldn't shut his piehole and Kennedy did in fact endorse Obama.

Hmm, I wonder if her cute little Bobby Kennedy remark came after Ted endorsed Obama?

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
129. As a lifelong Democrat
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 04:00 PM
Aug 2015

I'm simply not excited by Hillary. I think she's a better candidate than Bernie, and might be the Democratic nominee, but I have real concerns about whether she can win the GE. Frankly, history is against whomever the Dems end up nominating.

TheFarS1de

(1,017 posts)
172. The fact that they are'nt towing the official party line .
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:38 PM
Aug 2015

Cause you know , we must do what's best for the party and forget about your own actual needs in life . Support this ideal at all costs etc .

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
160. Hillary Clinton will never be president. Let's hope, for our sake,
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 07:20 PM
Aug 2015

she is not the Democratic nominee.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
177. So what you're saying is that we have to let the media and the GOPers pick our candidates
Sat Aug 22, 2015, 08:51 PM
Aug 2015

It doesn't matter if allegations against a Democratic candidate are true or false. As long as the media has its bone and the Republicans run with it, we have no choice but to submit.

That's a pretty weak and pathetic argument.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
200. I wish they could have a GD-P forum all year.
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:07 PM
Aug 2015

GD is actually somewhat nice with all the main disruptors in here yanking Sanders voters chains. At least they are in this forum pretending to care about whatever it is they hate about Sanders and not doing their SSDD disrupting of GD.

All HAIL GD-P!

Now, as far as HRC goes...I still don't see the huge impact of these emails on her private server hurting her in the longrun. Not when Jeb Bush has the same (actually much worse) a problem.

If it was JUST HRC and no other person, I would say she is in trouble...however they can bury this story with the FACT that her main rival has the EXACT same problem!

still_one

(93,552 posts)
205. Yup, that is what happened with Ayres and Reverend Wright in regard to Obama.... Oh wait, that
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 05:30 PM
Aug 2015

didn't work out for the MSM or the right wingers either

Next

d_legendary1

(2,586 posts)
210. Plain and simple Server Gate is Hillary's Monica Lewinsky moment right now
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 08:16 PM
Aug 2015

You ma'am are correct. As I've said before this is a big distraction from the real political discourse she wants to engage in. Instead she's got to deal with a mess she started and she has no one to blame but herself. I'm tired of all these apologist blaming the right wing and MSM for something SHE DID as Secretary of State. They didn't plant the server anymore than she deleted emails about Benghazi (I'll add this for people who think the last line is for real). She violated set policy that she and her supporters are going to have to accept (whether they want to or not). Denying that any wrong doing was committed is a dog whistle for the right wingers and the media to go after her.

Quite frankly I'm tired of hearing about that stupid server.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
211. If it is already over, where is the victory party? Who won on the Republican side (I assume not Bush
Sun Aug 23, 2015, 08:20 PM
Aug 2015

or Walker or Jindal or Perry since all of them also used private email servers). Once you have called the Republican nomination process, too, let's decide the general election as soon as possible (I'm so tired of actually waiting on voters).

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
213. You Third-Wayin', Authoritarian Fascist!
Mon Aug 24, 2015, 07:36 AM
Aug 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]“If you're not committed to anything, you're just taking up space.”
Gregory Peck, Mirage (1965)
[/center][/font][hr]
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