One reason Vermont has a low black population.

[Qutzupalotl]

Last edited Mon Aug 24, 2015, 10:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Vermont is mosty white, but not because it's some sort of exclusionary country club or a Klan rally. Vermont was the first state to ban slavery in its constitution of 1777.

So Vermont has been right on the issue of slavery for hundreds of years. Can your state say the same? If more states had followed their example, we might not have the history of racial mistrust and recrimination that has followed us ever since.

Seen in this light, it's ridiculous to criticize candidates representing Vermont who inherit the state's legacy and population — especially someone like Sanders, who has always stood up for racial justice.

Don't hate a state that did the right thing.

[leftofcool]

1. So, is Bernie running for POV or POTUS?

[Qutzupalotl]

2. POTUS. But you knew that.

[leftofcool]

3. Then what does Vermont's past have to do with anything?

There are other states whose ethnic majority is made up of white people, why single out Vermont?

[Qutzupalotl]

4. Because Bernie was criticized for having a mostly-white crowd

at his announcement in Burlington. There has been a whisper campaign that he or his supporters favor whites over blacks ever since, which is ridiculous.

[leftofcool]

6. And since Burlington, how diverse have those crowds been?

[cali]

19. increasingly diverse, but still not enough. I'd like to see more diversity

[Qutzupalotl]

27. Not as diverse as they'd be without the whisper campaign.

[cali]

40. exactly

[TheFarS1de]

46. well obviously ....

seeing as you have no eyesight available to your goodself they are 100 times more diverse than a Hillary fund group . Does that help answer your "point" ?

[leftofcool]

64. Aren't you special?

And yes, I have seen the Bernie crowds. I don't see much diversity, but you keep on hoping.

[beam me up scottie]

66. LOL!

Thanks, I enjoyed that.

[artislife]

22. Sad

They think they are only playing dumb.

[George II]

33. Sanders wasn't born in Vermont, he chose Vermont.

[Qutzupalotl]

34. And Vermonters chose him.

Good people recognizing a good man from out of state, nothing sinister.

[PotatoChip]

36. Bernie was intrigued by the affordability of the land in Vermont according to the NYT

Additionally, he had attended college there, and may have decided to move to the area based on that experience as well.

But if that at all contributed to the senator’s economic populism, then his appreciation for an equal playing field was influenced by the self-regulating society of street games outside their house.

Sid Ganis, a past president of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, who lived downstairs from the Sanders family, recalled a roving gang of Jewish kids who would play stickball, marbles and boxball, all without adult meddling.

“In a way, when Bernard talks about cooperatives and so on, he is drawing on something that was real for many years,” his brother said. “That the people who did it, ran it.”

Mr. Sanders went to elementary school at P.S. 197 and spent his Saturday mornings at the Nostrand movie theater watching cartoons and serials with his brother. They took occasional trips into Manhattan, including one visit to Rockefeller Center where his brother recalled a “Vermont state propaganda place” that made the brothers marvel at the affordability of the land. When Mr. Sanders married years later, he used money from his wedding presents to buy acres in Montpelier.

[/div class="excerpt"]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/us/politics/bernie-sanderss-100-brooklyn-roots-show-beyond-his-accent.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=second-column-region&_r=0

[beam me up scottie]

38. And why was that, George?

Do tell.

You've hinted at it before, why not come right out and say it?

[cali]

41. so? what is your point?

Like most of the young people who gravitated to Vermont during that era, he was a back to the lander. You seem to be insinuating that there's something wrong with people who choose to live here.

[George II]

61. The OP is trying to convince us that it's not Sanders' fault that Vermont is about the least....

....ethnically diverse state in the country, and that's true. But it's also true that Sanders moved from an ethnically diverse and ethnically rich city (Brooklyn, part of NYC) to Vermont. It was HIS choice to live in that state.

Moreover, he wasn't "young" when he moved to Vermont, he was in his mid-30s.

[beam me up scottie]

62. So fucking what? My dad was a NYer who moved to VT too.

Like Bernie he fell in love with Vermont as a child.

Was he a racist too?

Using your logic why did Trump stay in NY?

What is wrong with people?

Bernie's a racist for loving Vermont now?

Is there no one you won't throw under the bus?

[cali]

67. disgusting and fail

He moved to Vermont in 1964. He was 23. Got that? Of course you'll probably try to twist that. And insinuating that he moved here because he wanted to live in some white enclave is vile and says a great deal about who you are. He moved here in the first crest of back to the landers. You could buy land for a couple of hundred dollars an acre.

Your habit of inferring that he's a racist is :

[beam me up scottie]

68. He's getting more desperate and is finally showing his true colours.

The mask is slipping and what's underneath is ugly.

[cali]

73. yes, it is. given the opportunity he just couldn't resist; bernie is a racist who

moved to a racist state. That's his narrative, and he's sticking with it.

[George II]

89. NOT true. The first time that he's been "documented" as a resident of Vermont.....

....was 1968, but even that is not definite.

Unfortunately his time between graduating from college and returning from his period in Israel is very fuzzy.

All that is mentioned on his website is:

"After graduating, he moved to Vermont", obviously not IMMEDIATELY after graduating. There's a large gap of specifics between his graduation from the University of Chicago and his first run for office. In fact, there is no mention whatsoever of his time in Israel.

He never "moved" to Vermont in 1964, he bought a summer home, which many New Yorkers did back then, but still lived elsewhere. Apparently he moved to Vermont full-time in 1968. So I was off by a couple of years.

Why do you have to make everything so personal and insulting? What I said is NOT "disgusting" nor "vile", nor did I ever infer that he's a racist. If you read that into what I say, that's your problem, not mine.

But, I really don't give a rat's ass about what YOU think of me. I'm very proud of who I am, what I've accomplished, and my political ideology.

[HerbChestnut]

70. It's ridiculous

Plain and simple. I grew up in Connecticut, and everybody there viewed Vermont as a hippie's paradise. It's a place where anyone can go regardless of their skin color, sexual orientation, religious views, etc. Vermonters are racists? Ha! Apparently some people have never been to some places in the deep south where the Confederate Flag is hung in every other yard.

[Warren DeMontague]

100. He moved?

Well, that settles it. How dare he.

[cali]

7. uh, he gets criticized quite a bit for being from Vermont

And Vermont gets criticized for its lack of diversity.

[cali]

5. thanks. it's more than that though. Many and perhaps most vermonters

welcome diversity. Vermont went for Jesse Jackson in 1988. Every single county in Vermont went for Obama overwhelmingly- twice. Hawaii was the only that voted more heavily for him.

Driver's licences for undocumented immigrants? Passed the legislature with ease.

Vermont welcomes refugees and immigrants. Vermont is working to address institutional racism within the state police and in local police departments. And the state police actually does some stringent screening.

The Vermont state police has been making a real effort on this front.

http://archive.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20120215/NEWS07/120215012/Vermont-State-Police-study-finds-slight-traffic-stop-race-disparity

http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/report-shows-racial-disparities-in-burlington-area-policing-now-what/Content?oid=2203940
http://www.refugees.org/about-us/where-we-work/vrrp/about-vrrp/


Yes, Vermont has racists. Yes, there is institutional racism, but there is good faith effort on the part of state government and many citizens through ngos to address these problems.

So why is Vermont so lacking in diversity? It's rural with only one small city and it's cold. Very, very few people of any ethnicity move here.

[Catherina]

12. Great post!

Cali

[cali]

17. thanks, Cat. I think people just don't know much about the state save

that it's mostly white and cold.

[Qutzupalotl]

30. Thank you, and you're right.

I grew up in Virginia, I live in Oregon now and I've never set foot in Vermont. This was a one-point OP, and your contributions are appreciated. Go Bernie!

[virgogal]

28. Vermont is no colder than Michigan which has a large minority population. Weather is hardly a

factor in upstate New York either,in cities like Rochester and Buffalo.

Vermont just likes it's picture book New England reputation.

[cali]

29. Vermont was never an industrial center. it has no cities. neverhas

It's never been a transportation hub either land or waterway.

And yes, Vermont is colder than Michigan.
http://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/US/coldest-states.php

[irisblue]

32. Michigan had lots of industrial jobs at one point

many POC came north to work in the defense and auto factories between 1942-1980.

[beam me up scottie]

42. Vermont just likes its what?

Are you actually implying we keep minorities out of the state?

[cali]

43. despicable isn't it?

[beam me up scottie]

44. Unbelievable.

What won't some HC supporters do to score points?

Just when you think you've seen everything.

[cali]

45. And they have the temerity to accuse Sanders supporters of being

every loathsome thing they can dream up all the while claiming the high road.

Sick.

[jwirr]

53. Vermont was not the center of the auto industry with a lot of jobs to

attract people. As Cali said Vermont is rural.

[demwing]

71. I hope no one alerts on your post

Last edited Mon Aug 24, 2015, 09:42 AM - Edit history (1)

I'd hate for DU to lose the opportunity to see what kind of baseless, senseless, worthless, swift boating crap gets flung at our most progressive of states, in an attempt to bring down Bernie.

No truth, no honor, and no shame.

[cali]

75. +1

[beam me up scottie]

79. Thank you for calling them out.

That kind of slander is indefensible.

[virgogal]

90. You might want to check the definition of slander.

[beam me up scottie]

97. How about I commend them for calling out your lousy smear?

Does that work for you?

Because they NAILED your post:

I'd hate for DU to lose the opportunity to see what kind of baseless, senseless, worthless, swift boating crap gets flung at our most progressive of states, in an attempt to bring down Bernie.

No truth, no honor, and no shame.

[Kurska]

82. Vermont had no industrial jobs

and very small cities and very cold, actually a lot colder than Michigan.

So no slavery plus no reason to move there is why places like Vermont, Wyoming and Montana are overwhelmingly white. It is about them being more racist.

These areas are slowly gaining minority population as urban centers grow, but it is mostly Hispanic

[mythology]

65. Research indicates that a good deal of those can be attributed to the lack of diversity

Quoting from Marylee Taylor's article How White Attitudes Vary With the Racial Composition of Local Populations: Numbers Count

Among non-Southern whites, a 10-point rise in the local percentage of blacks brings an increase in traditional prejudice greater than the decrease in prejudice that comes with three additional years of education. Interestingly, concentrations of local Asian American and Latino populations do not engender white anitpathy toward these groups.

Vermont's lack of a minority population, means there is little to no perceived threat from blacks.

But claiming Vermont has welcomed immigrants is actually just factually wrong. Vermont has about 4 percent of their population that were born in other countries. The national average is 12 percent. Additionally more than half of Vermont's immigrants are from Canada or Europe, meaning white.

Vermont does have a higher than average number of African immigrants, but given the limited numbers of immigrants overall, it's hard to claim that reflects a state-wide love of immigrants.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/story/money/2014/07/31/vermont-immigration-patterns-differ-us/13402973/

[beam me up scottie]

8. Thank you.

This Vermonster is sick of seeing her progressive home state get hit with shrapnel from the primary wars.

[cali]

9. no shit. we're not perfect but the meme that

Vermont is filled with racists because it's overwhelmingly white, just isn't true.

[beam me up scottie]

10. I didn't meet a white supremacist until I moved to the south.

The new Klan recruits at work here fer chrissakes.

Talk about culture shock.

At least most of the racists in Vermont try to hide.

Down here they're advertising.

[Chan790]

11. It's really weird but living all over the East Coast...

I've never met more organized racists (e.g. those that are members of racist groups or actively practice or preach racism) than I have in Connecticut and Maryland.

Maryland has/is way more racist than Virginia or North Carolina...and I have no idea why.

In Vermont, on the other hand, never met any.

(No real point, just an interesting observation.)

[beam me up scottie]

15. That is weird.

Around here they're armed to the teeth. It's very disturbing how bold they are.

I always assumed they'd be more secretive.

[Zorra]

13. Thanks, I didn't know that.

[sufrommich]

14. Why is your OP titled like it going to give

a reason that Vermont is white?

[Qutzupalotl]

31. I retitled my post.

Thank you for the input.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

16. So, just to be clear, you're saying the reason Vermont is

'so white' is that you banned slavery early on?

I would have thought that would actually make you the natural destination of blacks escaping slavery, and created an even larger population of black folks in Vermont.

(But Vermont is an amazingly lovely place, and certainly home to the best maple syrup ever!)

[cali]

18. I think the op just mistitled her post

[Qutzupalotl]

25. I'm a he

and I'm open to suggestions if there's still time to edit. What part is off to you?

On edit: Now I get it. There's a reason Vermont has a low black population. Will try to fix.

[PotatoChip]

20. Perhaps decent employment being found long before reaching Northern New England

in cities such as Philadelphia, NYC, and Boston during the migration from the former slave states?

It's just a guess, but speaking for Maine whose demographics and history are similar to Vermont's, I suspect that many PoC migrating from the south to escape rural poverty, perhaps did not travel all that way just to settle in another place full of rural poverty?

[Starry Messenger]

21. My state never had Black slavery.

I won't say no slavery, since we are talking about CA, and the Mission system. But it did prove to be a wartime (WW2) and post-war destination for Blacks (and others) looking for jobs and we now are a minority-white state.

(Article from 1987, tending to bolster the idea that without a lot of post-war new industry, Vermont wasn't a destination for those seeking new opportunities. http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/23/us/vermont-s-few-blacks-finding-special-problems.html)

[nichomachus]

24. Vermont is white because....

When blacks started migrating from the south, they were seeking economic opportunity. So they tended to move to industrial areas where they could find employment. Vermont, which was mostly a collection of family farms -- with very scarce industry --'didn't provide much in the way of economic opportunity for outsiders of any race.

[Qutzupalotl]

26. Thank you, excellent point.

And even if they could get on at a family farm, the work would be similar to what they were doing as slaves. I can imagine they'd want a change of occupation, despite having experience.

Edited to add: But southern cotton pickers had it worst, since the plants tore up your hands, on top of all the other horrid working conditions.

[matt819]

35. Exactly.

Pretty much applies to much of northern New England. To suggest some nefarious reason for Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine being predominantly white is ludicrous. People relocate based on where the jobs are, and New England doesn't fall into that category. The same applies to states in the west. Business owners and politicians shouldn't be faulted for demographic realities.

[HerbChestnut]

69. Be careful...

History might get in the way of some people's opinions...

[jfern]

37. The lack of slavery meant few blacks

The Dred Scott decision meant it was safest for fleeing slaves to continue to Canada, no matter how friendly a state was to them. And in the 20th century, blacks moved to large northern cities, but Vermont doesn't have any large cities.

[HereSince1628]

50. Yes, though, imo, blacks moved north to industrial jobs, heavy and light, mostly in large cities.

They moved to what turned out to become, with industrial relocation to places with cheaper labor, the rust belt.

I really don't know Vermont, but I don't think of it as one of the New England states rather than one of the "Foundry-States" that was heavily involved in one way or another, with the necessary resource extraction, steel production, and manufacture of durable goods.

[musiclawyer]

39. Constituent demographics are irrelevant to higher office

I shut people down result quick when I tell them the logical extension of that argument in that Jerry Brown can't be POTUS because his constituency is majority minority; or whoever member of congress who is black can't be POTUS because their constituency is majority AA . I don't use the world Stupid very often, but saying that Bernie is disqualified because of his constituency is stupid beyond comprehension .....

[BainsBane]

47. Ever hear of migration?

Minnesota didn't have any East Africans when it became a state, but it now has the largest population in the country, just as it was the primary home of Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Hmong refugees following the war. It has pro-immigration policies.

[cali]

48. Minnesota has cities. Vermont doesn't.

And Vermont has very pro-immigration policies.

[beam me up scottie]

51. No shit. They just won't quit with the racism claims, will they?

Attacking Bernie wasn't enough, now it's all of Vermont.

I expected better from so called liberals.

[cali]

55. Vermont used to be a liberal darling on DU, now the saintly clinton

supporters smear it up and down. I welcome minorities. These Clinton supporters? Stay the fuck out.

[beam me up scottie]

57. They're never going to rebuild these bridges.

I won't forget this.

[4Q2u2]

81. Do these people look at their own Candidate

Chappaqua, NY is 92% White, .94% AA, and the Clintons CHOOSE to live there.
Vermont is 95.3% White and 1.0% AA.

Median Income is 180,000 per year in Chappaqua with a household CDP of 162,000.
Forbes listed it as #42 of 100 Highest incomes earned in the country.

Got to love that direct representation, I always count on the rich folks to have my best interest at heart.

[PotatoChip]

95. Great point. Thank you! (nt)

[beam me up scottie]

52. What would they all do in Vermont, milk cows?

Jesus Christ that's been addressed over and over in the thread if you actually wanted to learn something.

Why not come right out and say what you want people to think about Vermont, Bane?

[jfern]

54. Pro-immigration and domestic migration are two different things

[BainsBane]

59. My post is responding to the OP

which imagines VT's population is unchanged since 1777. Migration refers to the movement of peoples within and across borders. There have been migrations of African Americans from the South--the Great Migration, I would have thought everyone learned about in college history--as well as immigration from foreign nations. The notion that VT is overwhelmingly white because it abolished slavery early is absurd. A number of states where slavery was never legal are far more diverse.

[jfern]

63. Vermont is mostly rural farms

While blacks moved more to industrial cities. Outside of the south, few blacks live in rural areas, and Vermont is mostly rural.

[valerief]

49. Wow, what an interesting fact! Thanks. nt

[frazzled]

56. I never saw anyone say that Vermont was exclusionary

My impression was that the comments regarding the state's demographics were aimed at the notion that Vermont (and by extension most Vermonters) has little experience with issues that affect African Americans (or the issues of large urban areas).

So while interesting, it would seem that this thread has little relevance. No one ever thought Vermont was white because it's racist. It's just way different than many other parts of the US.

[cali]

60. I have. including in this thread

[demwing]

72. See post 28 up thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251540326#post28

[frazzled]

88. Well, that's pretty weak broth

I don't think exclusionism or racism is being suggested there. Just that Vermonters like to think they live in happy land.

[Daniel537]

58. Vermont also has the honor of being the only state

that Shrub refused to visit during his regime. Kudos for that as well!

[Recursion]

74. So, what is the reason that Vermont has a low black population?

I don't think you said what the reason is.

(It also has a low white population...)

[gollygee]

76. The assumption seems to be that it's because they banned slavery earlier

though it was only 3 years earlier than Pennsylvania, which has a much higher African American population.

There are a lot of myths around slavery and African American migration, and I've seen one in this thread - that African Americans simply didn't move to places that didn't have industry. I'd recommend anyone who thinks that read the book Sundown Towns. African Americans who had been enslaved and were seeking a new home were largely agricultural workers, and moved everywhere, including rural areas. Many areas simply didn't allow African Americans to move there, or expelled them at some point with violence or the threat of violence. I don't think Vermont ever had a large African American population though, so I don't think too many people were expelled from there. The biggest area of that kind of problem was the upper Midwest, though it was all over the country.

And the Ku Klux Klan was very popular in Vermont, despite the OP dismissing that as a reason. In the book, they talk about one town's Klan rally that brought in twice as many people as the total population of the town.

Vermont shouldn't be singled out as the only place this happened as it was everywhere, but it was in Vermont as well as everywhere else.

The book is Sundown Towns by James Loewen.

[cali]

84. no. you are mostly wrong.

First of all, the Klan in Vermont largely directed it's animus toward Catholics, particularly French Canadians, during the 3 or 4 years that it was active in the state. There was a large influx of French-Canadian and smaller but sizable immigrant groups from Ireland and Italy, the latter, mostly skilled craftsmen who came to work in Vermont's granite and marble shops. This immigration of Catholics and non-English speakers, brought out some ugly bigotry, no doubt, and had their been a sizable number of blacks moving to the state, the animus might have been directed at them, but that wasn't the case. And there is some historical precedent to suggest that it wouldn't have been the case to the degree it was in many states.

Regarding the Great Migration: By an enormous percentage, in two waves, those people went to the industrial centers of the Northeast and Midwest. In addition, all agriculture is not the same. In Vermont it consisted of sheep farming and dairy which were virtually all family run. There were, on the larger operations, maybe one or two hired hands.


http://www.flowofhistory.org/themes/movement_settlement/immigration.php
http://vermonthistory.org/research/research-resources-online/green-mountain-chronicles/the-k-k-k-in-vermont-1924

I've read Sundown Towns. It's fascinating and important work, but Loewen admits that he had to use a lot of
guess work because the historical record in many locales was seriously lacking. (Btw, Loewen taught on race relations at UVM for many years).

It's a fascinating topic and there are historical incidences in Vermont that point to both racism and tolerance. I'll give you two, separated by many years:

Around 1830, Alexander Twilight, African-American and native Vermonter; the first AA to graduate from college in the U.S. moved to the tiny very rural hamlet of Brownington, where he built the most amazing school. By all accounts he was welcomed.

“The Reverend Alexander Twilight: scholar, husband, teacher, preacher, legislator, father-away-from-home to nearly 3,000 boys and girls, an African American and a Vermonter of great vision, whose remains today lie buried in the church-yard just up the maple-lined dirt road from his granite school, in what surely was, and still is, one of the last best places anywhere.” ~Howard Frank Mosher, 1996
https://blackhistorywall.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/february-8-alexander-lucius-twilight/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Twilight

And then there's this much more recent and ugly incident:

http://www.vpr.net/episode/51062/slayton-irasburg-affair-remembered/

I can tell you, that now, in 2015, Vermont is a pretty welcoming place. We have very pro immigration and refugee policies. There has been an active initiative to deal with institutional racism particularly in police departments and schools by the Vermont Human Rights commission, the dept. of education and other government agencies as well as ngos.

[cali]

77. as many people have noted, historically Vermont is a rural state with no industrial centers

During the great migration, blacks moved to urban industrial centers where there were jobs. And there has never been a big population influx here. There was a modest spike in the sixties and seventies- mostly hippies, and that has had a big impact.

[Recursion]

78. That's plausible, the OP just didn't make any argument at all for why

OTOH Vermont is the site of the farthest-north Civil War battle, which I've always thought was cool.

[cali]

85. please see my post #84.

Ah yes, St Albans. Such an odd little tale.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Albans_Raid

[beam me up scottie]

86. They made a movie about it too but I forgot the name of it.

Very interesting.

[cali]

87. it was based on Howard Mosher's novel, A Stranger in the Kingdom

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126680/

[liberal N proud]

80. I thought it was because black people were smart enough not to spend winter in Vermont

I have been to Vermont several times in the dead of winter and in late winter when everyone else is thawing out.

[KittyWampus]

83. What an empty opening post. It's says there's a reason VT is mostly all white

but then totally FAILS to say why.

But gee, it was right on slavery about 150 years ago.

And I haven't seen any DU'ers "hate a state that did the right thing".

Why would anyone would recommend this tripe?

[ChazII]

91. +1, I guess my mind is too simplistic.

I'd like to see a simple straight forward answer to this question. "One reason Vermont has a low black black population is___" and then give a one reason response to the OP's question. KittyWampus thank you for posting what I was thinking while I was reading this thread.

[cali]

92. here you go. The Great Migration

which was actually two waves of migration and which established a significant AA presence in many Midwestern and northeastern states, was almost exclusively to industrial cities. Vermont not only had no cities, but there wasn't any large scale farming. At those periods, the only industry of note was in the marble and granite shops. And the work available was so specialized that the majority were Italian craftsmen.

Vermont is not a magnet for anyone. Few people move here. Few ever have. It's not like the southern tier of new Hampshire, which is within commuting distance of Boston.

The only migration to Vermont occurred in the sixties and early seventies when there was a modest migration of hippie back to the land types.

[ChazII]

93. Thank you, cali.

I appreciate your help.

[cali]

94. you're welcome. I wish more people

did move here. We have, I think, one of the oldest populations of any state. Kids get a great education here and then they split.

[Turin_C3PO]

96. I would like to move up there.

I like cold and rural. Is the cost of living (outside of the two small cities) very high? I am a CNA and would like to work at a nursing home there.

[cali]

98. it's not too bad in some areas

Here are a couple of nursing homes in my neck of the woods.

http://www.greensboronursinghome.org/
http://www.craftsburycommunitycarecenter.org/

[Warren DeMontague]

99. Ben and Jerry are both white. All them dudes from Phish? White, white, white.

I rest my case.

[FarPoint]

101. I'm proud of Vermont's history.

What do people expect now...Shall we rekindle bussing African Americans into white dominate states?

Of course not......People choose to live where they want to live.I know in Vermont, all race, color and creed is always welcome. I love Vermont.

[beam me up scottie]

102. Thank you, FarPoint.

My dad moved there in the 60's because he always dreamed of having a farm.

Just like Bernie he was a native New Yawker who fell in love with Vermont as a kid.

[FarPoint]

103. My son goes to school there...

New England Culinary Institute... I have considered even retiring there myself. Love going there 3-4 times a year...

[beam me up scottie]

104. A very good friend is a graduate.

How does your son like it?

[FarPoint]

106. He loves NECi...

Life changing .....great school.... Opened up his Universe.

[beam me up scottie]

107. It is, my friend went on to a great career.

Tough school, though - he calls NECI boot camp for chefs.

[FarPoint]

108. Especially when they walk down the hill to La Brioche Cafe and Bakery at ,5 am...

Then...up the hill to school....It's a workout.

[beam me up scottie]

109. Wait til it's -20!

I used to walk a mile to work every day, it's brutal.

Hope you got him some warm boots.

[ymetca]

105. As a native Oklahoman

I must say that Vermonters should be proud of their state mostly because it's not present-day Oklahoma! Oklahoma --where the wind comes sweeping down the plains with more than a hint of fracking fluid. Our political representatives are an ornery assemblage of the most lackluster bag-o-nuts that could be found. Will Rogers and Woody Guthrie must be rolling over in their graves.