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Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:01 PM

 

Is Bernie taking a cue from Hillary?

I see a lot of folks ragging on HRC here because she has not had big rallies and has instead focused on a listening tour where she lets the people speak. I think that is respectful and a sign of a real leader.

Is Bernie learning from that, and doing the same - listening? It seems that perhaps he is. And as a result he appears to have learned something in his recent travels to SC that he says he was unaware of previously. Good for him. Sincerely.

But also scary. Is there anyone on DU that did not realize that POC get fined for silly things, then thrown in jail if they can't pay the fine? Heck, even if you didn't know before you'd have to be in a serious bubble not to know after the DOJ report on Ferguson. I would have hoped Bernie would have read that report, but how could he have possibly missed the news reporting that summarized it?

And no, this is NOT flamebait. I believe we should have serious misgivings about Bernie for reasons like these. And I think I should have a right to have an opinion about that on a site like DU.

The video is here:

https://www.facebook.com/BernieSandersSC/videos/1735149746714641/

244 replies, 20429 views

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Arrow 244 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is Bernie taking a cue from Hillary? (Original post)
MaggieD Aug 2015 OP
SheilaT Aug 2015 #1
leftofcool Aug 2015 #2
Iliyah Aug 2015 #5
leftofcool Aug 2015 #14
cali Aug 2015 #7
riversedge Aug 2015 #68
cali Aug 2015 #84
riversedge Aug 2015 #94
SheilaT Aug 2015 #11
leftofcool Aug 2015 #13
cali Aug 2015 #15
MaggieD Aug 2015 #20
questionseverything Aug 2015 #35
MaggieD Aug 2015 #37
cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #156
short circuit Aug 2015 #24
riversedge Aug 2015 #72
short circuit Aug 2015 #149
frylock Aug 2015 #89
NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #29
MaggieD Aug 2015 #38
leftofcool Aug 2015 #45
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #69
NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #111
sibelian Aug 2015 #238
NanceGreggs Aug 2015 #241
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #63
bunnies Aug 2015 #3
cali Aug 2015 #4
Scuba Aug 2015 #235
Raine1967 Aug 2015 #6
MaggieD Aug 2015 #18
seabeyond Aug 2015 #30
Raine1967 Aug 2015 #39
seabeyond Aug 2015 #44
Raine1967 Aug 2015 #79
seabeyond Aug 2015 #82
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #95
seabeyond Aug 2015 #99
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #103
seabeyond Aug 2015 #108
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #112
leftofcool Aug 2015 #123
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #124
magical thyme Aug 2015 #64
cali Aug 2015 #147
1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #80
Raine1967 Aug 2015 #83
djean111 Aug 2015 #8
Vattel Aug 2015 #9
Raine1967 Aug 2015 #26
Vattel Aug 2015 #195
Raine1967 Aug 2015 #196
Vattel Aug 2015 #215
Raine1967 Aug 2015 #234
Vattel Aug 2015 #236
bettyellen Aug 2015 #57
Vattel Aug 2015 #194
eridani Aug 2015 #10
Agschmid Aug 2015 #12
MaggieD Aug 2015 #16
cali Aug 2015 #19
MaggieD Aug 2015 #22
Agschmid Aug 2015 #23
MaggieD Aug 2015 #41
Agschmid Aug 2015 #48
MaggieD Aug 2015 #56
Agschmid Aug 2015 #67
cali Aug 2015 #49
MaggieD Aug 2015 #52
cali Aug 2015 #76
Dragonfli Aug 2015 #102
cali Aug 2015 #106
Dragonfli Aug 2015 #180
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #182
MaggieD Aug 2015 #120
cali Aug 2015 #129
frylock Aug 2015 #224
MaggieD Aug 2015 #121
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #122
MaggieD Aug 2015 #127
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #128
cali Aug 2015 #134
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #146
cali Aug 2015 #159
leftofcool Aug 2015 #126
cali Aug 2015 #141
cali Aug 2015 #131
MaggieD Aug 2015 #136
cali Aug 2015 #155
seabeyond Aug 2015 #164
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #167
seabeyond Aug 2015 #171
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #173
leftofcool Aug 2015 #198
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #203
cali Aug 2015 #175
Dragonfli Aug 2015 #133
MaggieD Aug 2015 #135
Dragonfli Aug 2015 #148
MaggieD Aug 2015 #150
Dragonfli Aug 2015 #152
MaggieD Aug 2015 #153
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #154
cali Aug 2015 #158
MaggieD Aug 2015 #161
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cali Aug 2015 #174
MaggieD Aug 2015 #179
cali Aug 2015 #184
MaggieD Aug 2015 #186
cali Aug 2015 #190
MaggieD Aug 2015 #193
Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #227
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AgingAmerican Aug 2015 #220
frylock Aug 2015 #137
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frylock Aug 2015 #140
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #142
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cali Aug 2015 #25
bettyellen Aug 2015 #34
questionseverything Aug 2015 #42
bettyellen Aug 2015 #47
questionseverything Aug 2015 #71
bettyellen Aug 2015 #115
questionseverything Aug 2015 #229
cali Aug 2015 #43
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GoneFishin Aug 2015 #199
cali Aug 2015 #17
arcane1 Aug 2015 #130
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MaggieD Aug 2015 #36
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cali Aug 2015 #46
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hootinholler Aug 2015 #61
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #75
short circuit Aug 2015 #85
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cali Aug 2015 #107
MoveIt Aug 2015 #183
MaggieD Aug 2015 #240
MoveIt Aug 2015 #242
cali Aug 2015 #87
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #88
MoveIt Aug 2015 #177
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #178
frylock Aug 2015 #97
hootinholler Aug 2015 #55
MaggieD Aug 2015 #58
hootinholler Aug 2015 #62
MaggieD Aug 2015 #73
hootinholler Aug 2015 #81
cali Aug 2015 #113
MaggieD Aug 2015 #117
cali Aug 2015 #165
GoneFishin Aug 2015 #200
frylock Aug 2015 #98
cali Aug 2015 #109
virtualobserver Aug 2015 #65
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #92
frylock Aug 2015 #96
cali Aug 2015 #110
ecstatic Aug 2015 #27
cali Aug 2015 #28
ecstatic Aug 2015 #31
Control-Z Aug 2015 #32
MaggieD Aug 2015 #33
magical thyme Aug 2015 #54
Control-Z Aug 2015 #205
magical thyme Aug 2015 #50
MaggieD Aug 2015 #59
magical thyme Aug 2015 #77
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #104
MaggieD Aug 2015 #116
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #119
riversedge Aug 2015 #66
MaggieD Aug 2015 #74
virtualobserver Aug 2015 #78
RoccoR5955 Aug 2015 #86
left-of-center2012 Aug 2015 #90
tech3149 Aug 2015 #93
beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #100
sadoldgirl Aug 2015 #105
MuseRider Aug 2015 #114
libdem4life Aug 2015 #118
Gothmog Aug 2015 #125
GitRDun Aug 2015 #132
MaggieD Aug 2015 #143
Armstead Aug 2015 #138
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MuseRider Aug 2015 #169
ancianita Aug 2015 #145
MaggieD Aug 2015 #151
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cali Aug 2015 #239
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Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #176
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HassleCat Aug 2015 #201
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wendylaroux Aug 2015 #214
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MoveIt Aug 2015 #243
Capt. Obvious Aug 2015 #244

Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:07 PM

1. Several weeks ago someone here posted

 

an opinion that Hillary should not need to go out and ask people what they care about. By this point in her career, especially as someone who'd doubtless been planning her 2016 run since 2008, she really ought to have a pretty good idea of what people think and want.

The fact that Bernie doesn't really need to do that, shows that he's been paying attention to the issues that matter to ordinary Americans all along.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:09 PM

2. So, listening to voters is bad now?

Got it.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:15 PM

5. Anything that HRC says, does, or don't do or say is BAD.

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Response to Iliyah (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:23 PM

14. Yep. I see that.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:15 PM

7. see my post #4. Bernie is doing far more listening

 

And dialogue in this campaign than Hillary is- well, except for listening to big money donors at high ticket events. Hillary does a lot of that.

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:27 PM

68. You are really silly and do not know of Hillary's continuous Town Halls.

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Response to riversedge (Reply #68)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:51 PM

84. you mean the ones with the pre-screened questions,

 

or the smaller groups with pre-screened participants?

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Response to cali (Reply #84)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:08 PM

94. Give me your references please.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:06 PM

11. No. But needing to go out on a listening tour because

 

you don't have a clue what the voters are thinking about or want, is bad. What have you been doing all along that you're so clueless?

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:22 PM

13. Like I said, Hillary listens, Bernie rants and raves.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:25 PM

15. baloney. she pontificates. And her listening tour is with wealthy donors.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:31 PM

20. No, it really isn't

 

She just did an event with a friend of mine who is not rich, and although she does have some rich friends, she also has some not rich friends, and they were there as well. In fact I would say the vast majority of the people there were not rich at all. The main thing they had in common was that they were all people who have volunteered over a long period of time, or worked at low salary non-profit social orgs.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #20)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:56 PM

35. cool

why don't you post a link with pics and stuff?

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #35)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:58 PM

37. Because I don't want my friend harrassed by Bernie supporters

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #37)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:59 PM

156. I'll buy THAT for a dollar! (laughter)

 

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:37 PM

24. The very fact that Clinton needs a listening tour

 

is embarrassing. She has absolutely no idea what it is like in mainstream America, rather than Established America™ (patent pending).

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Response to short circuit (Reply #24)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:29 PM

72. Why is it embarrassing? To who?? She listens to the people at her Town Halls! Now it seems

Bernie is also doing Town halls and listening. Good for him. Nothing embarrassing about Bernie listening is there?

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Response to riversedge (Reply #72)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:48 PM

149. She has no clue on what's going on in the heartbeat of America

 

and only goes to "town halls" full of screened loyalists.

When she starts jamming people in her rallies, needing overflow areas for the crowds, let me know - I'm still waiting for that day. The most she could muster is 5,500. I am afraid that's about the maximum she'll get until she starts showing up and talking to people.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:55 PM

89. Hillary listens..



mmm-hmmm mmm-hmmm mmm-hmmm

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:48 PM

29. I guess it doesn't occur to you ...

.. that what voters are thinking or want varies from one area of the country to another, and changes over time?

By way of comparison, what does long-time Vermonter Bernie know about what it's like to grow up black in a major city,
or the challenges that face farmers in the mid-west, or the concerns of people in Texas as opposed to those in Maine?

If a candidate thinks they KNOW all of the many things that different voters want and need, that sounds incredibly "clueless" to me.

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:58 PM

38. Exactly

 

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:05 PM

45. +1

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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:27 PM

69. Come on, Nance ...

 

what does long-time Vermonter Bernie know about what it's like to grow up black in a major city


He grew up (not) poor in Brooklyn!

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #69)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:34 PM

111. Yes, he grew up in Brooklyn ...

... over five decades ago. So there's no point in talking to the people living there now, because I'm sure nothing has changed.

I was born in Brooklyn, too - and no doubt the folks living back on my block are still concerned about the post-war housing shortage, and the loss of jobs now that the local streetcars are being phased-out.



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Response to NanceGreggs (Reply #29)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 12:54 PM

238. How could this politically insensate criticism not be applicable to ANY candidate?


What is it about Bernie Sanders that encourages you to level it at him?

"If a candidate thinks they KNOW all of the many things that different voters want and need, that sounds incredibly "clueless" to me. "

i.e. all politicians and every poster on DU is clueless.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #238)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 01:46 PM

241. I wasn't "leveling" anything at Sanders.

I was using him as an example. Obviously, the same could be said of ANY candidate; that was the point.

I was responding to the opinion expressed that any candidate who asks questions of voters must be "clueless", otherwise they would KNOW what every voter needs or wants without having to ask.

And, yes, if any candidate thinks they know - without any need to actually engage voters and get their input - what every citizen's priorities are, that candidate is foolishly relying on their own assumptions, rather than facts on-the-ground.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #2)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:24 PM

63. And there have been post after OP, lamenting, mocking and deriding HRC's use of polling ...

 

It would seem smart to me to listen to folks (face to face, if even in a crowd), then test (poll) to see if what you just heard comports with larger themes, or is it a more provincial concern. If it is part of a larger theme, you develop a plan to address it, yesterday ... and place it more prominently on your to do list. If it is a more provincial matter, you still think of the plan to deal with it; but, it doesn't have to be a high priority matter on your campaign.

I'm sorry (no, not really) ... I value information, as it allows for informed decision making. And, I value that in a politician.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:11 PM

3. Bernies been doing this since even before he decided to run.

 

I attended two such events last fall.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:12 PM

4. I haven't criticized her for not holding big rallies.

 

Can't say I think much of her so-called listening tour, stage managed as it is.

And sorry but it's a ludicrous stretch to claim that Bernie is learning to listen to voters from her. He holds.real, not stage managed events, engaging with people- listening to them and responding to questions, including hostile ones. He's done this for decades in Vermont. He's done it for years every Friday on Thom Hartmann's show. And he's done it I Iowa and New Hampshire during this campaign.

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Response to cali (Reply #4)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:52 AM

235. /\_/\_This right here_/\_/\

 

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:15 PM

6. I am actually really surprised that he asked *is this true?* and

and *What happens if you don't pay the fine?*

With all the attention the BLM is bringing to light, With the shootings of black men (in particularly the murder of Walter SCott, who very well may have run because he owed money) I find this a little unsettling.

And I am glad that he is talking to people in small gatherings, I am, but that he come across as unaware to me says he still needs to learn a lot bout a few things.

That isn't a knock on Bernie, like you, this is an opinion.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:27 PM

18. Yes, it is unsettling

 

... to put it mildly. IMO.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:50 PM

30. I can listen to omalley and he has the 'tells' that he gets women's issues.

 

This is why it is so important to hear our candidates discuss these issues.

I have felt since listening to sanders from the start that he just does not get it. He hasn't been listening and hasn't been aware. He knows he wants equality and that is as far as he has gone.

Like men say women should be equal but they don't get it cause it isn't a learning interest.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:00 PM

39. I agree.

This video made me really uncomfortable.

It's been reported that he is working with BLM, so I was very surprised to hear him actually ask if this is true. That is bothersome to me.

Anyone paying attention to the issues of AfAm's knows this is true. Bernie is listening and I think that is to his credit, but it seems a little late to be learning about issues like this that affect african Americans so very deeply.


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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #39)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:04 PM

44. Yes. My concern day one. Hence walking away. Being provided omalley stuff and saying...

 

This is what I am talking about. And remember right before I was kicked off for over two months I started a thread in omalley group and all those in the know were providing me info I needed to support the man.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #44)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:36 PM

79. Well, the group is really meant to be as informational as possible.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #79)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:38 PM

82. and you all excel. nt

 

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #30)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:11 PM

95. Video of Bernie from 2012 proving he "gets it":



You should learn about the candidates if you want to discuss the issues.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #95)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:17 PM

99. as long as we do not expect sanders to hold our hand. yes. i listened to 2012 a couple months ago

 

and applauded him on the thread that i listened to it on. thanked them for providing. gushed all over the man for three or more years ago.

what you do not do is listen.... hmmmmm. maybe a consistent characteristic. read omalleys discussion on womens issues and see the difference. you know. for education.

i wont be talking to you again. it is not a conversation you can follow and leaves me wasting a lot of my time

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #99)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:21 PM

103. Women don't want a man to hold our hand, we want a feminist who has always fought for us.

And if you weren't so busy exploiting women's issues and swift boating Bernie you would know his record is impeccable.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #103)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:30 PM

108. ya. asking he speak up for planned parenthood is holding womens hands. got it. now done.

 

this ... is why i do not talk to you. between the continually moving the bar, the flat out constant insults.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #108)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:35 PM

112. Nope, Bernie has been fighting for women for decades, just like lgbt people and poc.

Just because you pretend his record doesn't exist doesn't mean it goes away.

Proving you're wrong is not moving the bar, just like calling you out on your bullshit isn't insulting you.

But keep digging, this is fun to watch.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #112)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:21 PM

123. Tsk Tsk

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #123)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:22 PM

124. Tut tut.

Wang dang doodle.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:24 PM

64. those questions didn't bother me at all...

 

As a (former) professional writer, I would frequently ask questions when I already knew the answer, to give interviewees a chance to start talking and to state matters in their own words, or to keep them talking, to encourage them to expand on a topic and so they know I am listening closely to them.

For example, I might interview several different participants from an event. After I've talked to the first person, I have a good idea of what took place. But person #2, 3, and 4 deserve the same attention and the same opportunity to describe their specific experience of the event. I would seek everybody's input to give me a much better, richer, more rounded, more dynamic and multifaceted explanation of what took place.

It really beats saying, "Mmmm...hmmm" over and over again.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #64)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:47 PM

147. +1

 

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #6)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:37 PM

80. Perhaps ...

 

He was attempting to appear humble.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #80)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:42 PM

83. Maybe?

I just went by what I saw (and heard) on the video.

Humble is fine, asking if such an issue were true in this day and age, I just don't know what to make of it and I am not going to try to get into the candidates mind.


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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:17 PM

8. Noted. I have quite serious misgivings about Hillary, due to her quite COGNIZANT

 

votes for war and her fondness of H-1B visas, among other things.

In the end, there is no "we" when it comes to supporting a candidate. Each of us weighs the pros and cons, and makes a choice.

And I think I should have a right to have an opinion about that on a site like DU.

Of course you do! What you do not have a right to is agreement with your opinion. What you do not have a right to is no discussion, just acceptance, of your opinion. Unless you are in a protected group. That's all.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:20 PM

9. It's unconstitutional to put someone in jail as a result of his or her inability to pay a fine.

 

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Response to Vattel (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:41 PM

26. and yet it happens.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-rise-of-americas-debtor-prisons/


In his account of the experience, Thompson says he was ordered to pay $810 in fines by Georgia's DeKalb Recorders Court, an amount that was out of reach for the low-income auto shop and tow truck worker. Instead of working with Thompson to find another way to pay, such as through community service, the court handed off Thompson to a for-profit probation company called Judicial Correction Services (JCS). JCS told Thompson he had 30 days to pay the fine, but also gave him erroneous legal information, such as overestimating the cost of a public defender.

Thompson notes that the court later took up a JCS officer's recommendation to incarcerate him, resulting in a five-day stint in jail for failing to pay the fine.


John Oliver covered this as well:

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #26)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:48 PM

195. You are right that it happens. And it is disgusting when it does.

 

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Response to Vattel (Reply #195)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:54 PM

196. I wasn't sure if you posted that it does indeed happen regardless of constitutionality

.. so I wanted to make that clear: it happens.

and this is why I am sincerely befuddled at Sanders response in the video from the OP.

YOu know it, I know it and pretty much anyone spending anytime caring about social justice knows it. That he seemed surprised, well I can't make heads or tales of it.

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #196)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:29 PM

215. Yes, I see your point. In defense of Bernie, one has to keep in mind

 

that different states and different jurisdictions, and even different judges within the same jurisdiction, have different policies, procedures, and practices for dealing with unpaid fines. Sanders was not aware of how things are done in South Carolina. If he was not aware of the general problem, then that is surprising and a little disappointing, but given his enormous advantages over Clinton, it wouldn't affect my assessment of who I should vote for.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #215)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:48 PM

234. Cool. I am not trying to dissuade you of your support. I want to make that clear.

I hope you know that.

I would be asking the same thing of the candidate I support if they responded in such a way.

peace.
Raine

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #234)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 08:13 AM

236. peace to you too. One thing I really do hope

 

is that whoever we get into office ends up making criminal justice reform a huge priority.

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Response to Vattel (Reply #9)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:14 PM

57. You had no idea that this happens all the time- it was spotlighted in coverage of Ferguson. Jeeze.

 

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #57)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:46 PM

194. No, I was already aware of the issue.

 

Part of the problem is how SCOTUS's decision has been interpreted by lower courts.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 02:51 PM

10. Apparently "real people" have to go through an intense screening process n/t

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:14 PM

12. This IS flamebait.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:26 PM

16. It really isn't....

 

I cannot imagine why it should not matter if a candidate is in touch with the actual issues people are experiencing. It matters. It's an actual issue that bears discussion.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:28 PM

19. lol.

 

People here get it.

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:33 PM

22. Why personally attack the messenger?

 

Am I not allowed to have the opinion that our nominee should be very in touch with the issues we face? Why can't you understand that there are legitimate reasons many people do not find Bernie a good candidate?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:34 PM

23. And it's your job to tear him down?

People should really focus on supporting a candidate rather than trying to tear them down.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #23)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:00 PM

41. I think it is a huge factor in choosing a nominee

 

Remember how out of touch Bush looked when he was amazed by a grocery scanner? Or how about Mitt's car elevator? Or Todd Akin thinking you could not get pregnant if raped?

It is astounding that he was unaware of this problem, as he states. Would you not have to agree with that?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #41)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:09 PM

48. Pretty sure this won't be an issue with Bernie...

He shops at City Market so he has familiarity with scanners, he can't afford a car elevator, and thinks rape is bad.

So I'm not concerned, and you shouldn't be either.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #48)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:14 PM

56. Well see I DO care if he is just learning about....

 

... the issue of petty fines being used to harass POC and then throwing them in jail when they can't pay. Why don't you mind that this is apparently the first of him hearing about this issue? This is not something that is new.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #56)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:26 PM

67. Because I know he will do something about it.

Honestly it's about how people address the issues, not just whether or not they know about it.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #41)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:10 PM

49. oh you mean how out of touch Hillary was when she talked

 

about leaving the White House dead broke, in her attempt to look like she related to struggling people?

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Response to cali (Reply #49)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:13 PM

52. She DID leave the WH dead broke

 

How many millions in debt were they when they left (thanks to lawyers needed for fake scandals)? Many. Being millions in debt sure sounds like dead broke to me.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #52)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:32 PM

76. omg. presidents leave the WH with people falling all over themseves

 

to pay them big bucks. Not even remotely the same thing as regular people struggling with crushing medical debts or student debt or not being able to pay for auto repairs so they can get to work. If you actually believe they were dead broke when they left the WH, you are as out of touch as she is.

They bought their 1.7 million dollar house in Westchester in 1999 with the help of wealthy friends. Do you think that people who are actually dead broke have those resources?

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Response to cali (Reply #76)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:20 PM

102. That's weird, I thought being dead broke she must have lived in a friends broken van

like I did for over a year. Or maybe on a bench Or a box in an alleyway, like many of my peers do to this day

I guess dead broke now includes luxury housing, man I wish someone would have given me the address to mine.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #102)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:25 PM

106. it's so insulting. I hope things are better for you now.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #106)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:47 PM

180. I'm not homeless now, but since I broke my body working too long

And the SSDI is trying to stall me until I die (osteoarthritis keeps me from working as a tradesman but the Pulmonary hypertension is killing me one short breath at a time) before I get benefits I payed into for almost 40 years, I am looking at a possible eviction every month.

What a great many people don't know is that since Clinton killed welfare, they only give a guy like me about 300 bucks a month for rent, all utilities and any sundries beyond food (EBT for that). As a consequence, I no longer have natural gas and fall behind in rent about 40 bucks every month.

It is just a matter of time before my health problems kill me or my landlord gets sick of hearing I'll catch up when my benefits come through. I think SS is running the slowest in the race and will come in last, it has been four years since I became unhireable due to health and SS is geared to stall until you give up or die trying. I won't give up, but expect fully well to die while trying.

I just take it personally when rich people living in luxury downplay the life lived by the more than half of Americans that ARE dead broke, some of whom are dying because of it.

I know many people living in the streets, or not eating enough or worrying about eviction every month if they still do have a place to crash. One I knew died last winter from the cold crashing in an abandoned bowling alley (I live in Buffalo, death from cold happens here).

Things are better for me now, but extremely unstable and likely more stressful than what poor Hill went through.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #180)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:55 PM

182. I'm glad things have improved.

And I hope they continue to get better, it is unconscionable that so many people live in poverty in this country.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #102)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:10 PM

120. Having no money or a home

 

Is having no money or a home. Truman was dead broke after he left the WH too.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #120)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:34 PM

129. no it really isn't. seriously, Maggie, do you actually not understand

 

the qualitative difference? Are you that lacking in sympathy and understanding. And they bought a 2 million dollar estate in 1999. So they certainly had a home when they left the WH.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #120)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:38 PM

224. What a wonderful display of empathy.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #102)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:15 PM

121. Being Millions in debt....

 

... As the price for kicking republican ass for 8 years isnt something to be happy about either, is it?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #121)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:18 PM

122. Your comparison of millionaires to a once homeless person is disgusting.

Your lack of compassion for a fellow DUer because they don't support your candidate speaks volumes about your character.

Some people have no shame, they will say and do anything in support of a politician.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #122)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:27 PM

127. They were not millionaires - they were millions in debt

 

What is the purpose of trying to deny that factual reality?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #127)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:29 PM

128. THEY ARE AND THEY WEREN'T LIVING IN A VAN LIKE THE POSTER YOU COMPARED THEM TO.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #127)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:38 PM

134. your comment on this subject are a complete denial of reality

 

And the way you keep doubling down is just bizarre.

I hope a lot of your fellow Clinton supporters see your comments in this thread.

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Response to cali (Reply #134)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:47 PM

146. I'm bookmarking it.

For the next time they complain about Bernie's supporters and post links to other threads.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #146)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:02 PM

159. good. it's sickening.

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #121)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:27 PM

126. You are wasting your time, Maggie.

Some supporters of other candidates can't do anything but throw around personal insults. Put them on ignore and come home to the Hillary Group. These people are not worth your precious time.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #126)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:45 PM

141. do you really not understand how disingenuous and morally offensive

 

it is to say what she's saying? All bickering aside, comparing the situation of the Clintons when they left the WH with people struggling to get by, crippled by debt with no way out?

No, broke is not broke as Maggie claims.

Step away from your partisanship for a moment and have some empathy.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #121)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:35 PM

131. shame on you. just shame.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #131)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:39 PM

136. For what? Not calling her a liar when she was telling the truth?

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #136)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:57 PM

155. she was factual, not truthful.

 

She moved into a 2 million dollar estate when she left the WH. They had unlimited earning potential immediately. They had pensions, healthcare, money for staff and more. That is not what 99.9% of people think of when they think of broke.

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Response to cali (Reply #155)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:07 PM

164. everyone knew exactly what clinton was saying. they walked out of the wh broke.... in debt.

 

no more or less. yes, everyone gets the potential. everyone gets their position was not the same as a homeless in the street. that they would easily dig themselves out because of that potential. but it is the attack on maggie for a factual statement that wasnt honest. talk about disgusting, .... shame shame.... and every other attack in this little subthread.

maggie made a factual statement. clinton made a factual statement. the argument was redirected to some really ugly comments.

you say take it from partisan. well, you do the same.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #164)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:14 PM

167. Bullshit she didn't. Here's the exchange:

MaggieD (3,182 posts)

52. She DID leave the WH dead broke

How many millions in debt were they when they left (thanks to lawyers needed for fake scandals)? Many. Being millions in debt sure sounds like dead broke to me.



Dragonfli (8,061 posts)

102. That's weird, I thought being dead broke she must have lived in a friends broken van

like I did for over a year. Or maybe on a bench Or a box in an alleyway, like many of my peers do to this day

I guess dead broke now includes luxury housing, man I wish someone would have given me the address to mine.


MaggieD (3,182 posts)

120. Having no money or a home

Is having no money or a home. Truman was dead broke after he left the WH too.


Now you're defending her disgusting lack of compassion for a fellow DUer.

All over a candidate.

Pathetic.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #167)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:21 PM

171. "her attempt to look like she related to struggling people?" cali started with this. she started

 

the comparison. bullshit. she made up a jab, totally a fabricated interpretation with no substance.

this whole subthread is a fuckin manipulatio to the ugliest.....

now. i have taken my tums... i am out.

disgusting subthread.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #171)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:25 PM

173. It is a disgusting subthread because it shows how far some will go to support Hillary.

Comparing her to a homeless person is despicable.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #171)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:55 PM

198. Sea, Sea, Sea,

Like I told Maggie, don't waste your breath. People will interpret things exactly the way they want to. You and I both know what Maggie was saying and so do they. You do not need to wallow in the pit. You are far to precious to us to be baited. Get thyself to the Hillary Group immediately and PM me.

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Response to leftofcool (Reply #198)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:18 PM

203. So you're okay with what Maggie said about Campaign Zero shilling for Bernie?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #167)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:28 PM

175. unfuckingbelievable.

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #121)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:38 PM

133. Then surely, homelessness like us mere mortals was involved, missed meals too

I was only a few thousand in debt and barely ate. Why did I not live in luxury as well?

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #133)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:39 PM

135. The accusation is that she was not dead broke....

 

... but she was worse than dead broke, she was millions in debt to lawyers due to republican smears.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #135)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:47 PM

148. It is just numbers on paper to them, numbers that appear to have grown considerably

While never losing the tiniest bit of luxury.

She lived like a queen while in debt on paper and still lives like a queen after profiting greatly from influence seekers.

You must live pretty well yourself not to understand the basics of the reality of the difference of being broke and in debt and merely having a "cash flow problem" that does not affect someone's quality of life one bit.

Good for you that you live a life of comfort, I can assure you half of America has to worry about having enough food to eat or worse.

You just don't get it because of your comfort, just as she never will from her place of great wealth that goes well beyond mere comfort at this point.

If a clue could be bought, perhaps she and you might have one by now,

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #148)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:49 PM

150. I don't believe that is true at all

 

And I see no evidence that it is true.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #150)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:55 PM

152. So you do not believe she has accumulated great wealth and think she is still "broke"

You are pretty deep in denial.
Possibly clinically so.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #152)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:55 PM

153. No, I don't believe it wasn't stressful to be millions in debt

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #153)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:56 PM

154. Keep digging.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #135)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:00 PM

158. what part of a 2 million dollar estate, unlimited earning potential, a sizeable pension,

 

health insurance, money for staff, and more, don't you understand?

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Response to cali (Reply #158)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:03 PM

161. She borrowed for her home just like anyone else

 

I hear Bernie has two of them. So why is that a problem?

And how does any of the rest make millions in debt less stressful? Or less broke? Are you saying ex-presidents shouldnt get a pension or Secret Service protection?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #161)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:07 PM

163. People living in vans can't borrow millions for a home.

This isn't about Bernie, you compared a homeless DUer to millionaires.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #161)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:27 PM

174. you really, truly don't get it. They aren't like everyone else

 

Last edited Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:00 PM - Edit history (1)

And that in and of itself is not a bad thing. Her comment just made her look out of touch.

And Bernie has a one bedroom apt. in D.C. and a regular middle class house in Burlington.

And no, I'm most certainly not saying they shouldn't have what they have.





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Response to cali (Reply #174)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:41 PM

179. Why the personal attack

 

.... Simply because you disagree with me? A Hillary supporter calling a Bernie supporter "clueless" would get a hide in a heartbeat.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #179)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:58 PM

184. it is not a personal attack. if you prefer I'll change it to

 

You really, really don't show any understanding

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Response to cali (Reply #184)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:03 PM

186. I DO understand

 

I moved out of my house at the age of 17 due to abuse, and couch surfed while working 60 hours a week at minimum wage jobs. Even after I could afford an apartment I worked those minimum wage jobs for 6 years to get myself through college.

It was hard. I just don't see how being millions and millions in debt would have been any less stressful.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #186)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:10 PM

190. it is always less stressful knowing you have a safety net. that simpler

 

And a 2 million.dollar house to move into.

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Response to cali (Reply #190)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:35 PM

193. I don't think that's true

 

... When you're in the moment. They were they're own safety nets at that point. They dug themselves out of the debt the rethugs had deliberately put them in.

Is that your reasoning for inferring she lied when she said she was dead broke? That she had the ability to climb out? I had faith in myself too, but that didn't make me any less broke at the time.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #193)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:48 PM

227. They could always have filed bankruptcy, sold

their property and gone on the dole so long as they turned on their two job searches per week. Even if they did, average joe has no light at the end of that tunnel. The Clintons had powerful friends in high places. There was zero chance the missed out on any level of the heirarchy of needs. None. Average poor and broke have to choise between food water and shelter. Medications? Yeah right. You seem to need a double shot of empathy.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #121)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:03 PM

187. Please enlighted me. When was Slick Willie "kicking republican ass"? Passing the end to Welfare?

Deregulating the banks?
Passing NAFTA?
Escalating the war on some drugs with the 3 strike rule and mandatory minimums?
Please tell me how any of these help POC?

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #187)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:07 PM

188. SCHIP, lowering interest rates so....

 

.... People could afford homes, turning the Internet into a job creation machine, cutting military spending, expanding pell grants - the list is long.

What has Bernie done in 25 years?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #188)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:13 PM

192. since you seem incapable of responding to actual questions Ignore is my friend

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Response to Vincardog (Reply #187)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:35 PM

220. He kicked their ass

 

For all his faults, Bill Clinton stood with the working class when it mattered. He owned the Republicans at every turn and made fools of them when he passed his budgets with their shutting down the government. He called all their stupid bluffs and won pretty much every fight he had with them.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #52)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:40 PM

137. I used to maximize my meals by pouring a can of soup over some rice when I was dead broke..

Of course, I was lucky to have that soup and rice, and a place to heat it up. I can't envision the Clinton's ever having to resort to that.

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Response to frylock (Reply #137)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:42 PM

139. I lived on ramen noodles.

I wonder if they ever had to.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #139)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:44 PM

140. ten for a buck

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Response to frylock (Reply #140)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:45 PM

142. I bet they don't even know what food costs at a grocery store.

Not saying that there's anything wrong with being rich but they are out of touch.

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Response to frylock (Reply #137)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:03 PM

160. The same! (or sometimes beans in the rice with a flavor cube instead of soup)

The best way I know how to stretch a couple of dollars from taking back bottles and cans.
It gets a bit boring after a time however.

Luckily, I finally managed with the collective help of many neighbors to get a room and legal address and eventually received EBT. Get to mix it up a bit now, but contrary to popular belief food stamps leave an extremely tight food budget that requires quite a bit of rice and beans still (never learned the trick of eating lobster and steak as staples of a food stamp diet, that must happen in some other state, perhaps a state named bullshit).

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #22)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:38 PM

25. you can have any opinion you wish.

 

And so can I. I'm also free to correct you on facts. I actually do think there are legitmate reasons to not support Bernie, but you always manage to come up with illegitimate ones.

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Response to cali (Reply #19)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:56 PM

34. It's not funny. This is what Sanders should have learned from Ferguson if he'd been paying attention

 

Instead he suggested Mike Brown needed higher education. Which was fucking clueless.
Thank god he is starting to get it.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #34)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:00 PM

42. what was needed is the 200 bucks to pay the fine

in the example the folks gave bernie

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #42)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:09 PM

47. That is a band aid on a bigger issue- jailing people for parking tickets! Disturbing to see it's

 

Suggested that people would argue in support of the system and tell people they should just have more money. Sorry- that is ass backwards.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #47)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:28 PM

71. i am not aurguing to support this system

just pointing out when you are sitting in jail for lack of 200 bucks it is an economic issue

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #71)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:50 PM

115. Nope- the constitutional issue is greater- and would be a quicker fix than waiting for people to

 

Amass wealth, for fucks sake. I cannot believe you think people SHOULD just shut up and pay the money. That's as idiotic as suggesting women just get on airplanes to get their abortions. Shot like that would wipe out any financial gains they make.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #115)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:10 PM

229. i swear i read here on du that blm was upset that sanders was concentrating on financial matters

when they want him to concentrate on civil rights matters...i am simply trying to show they are related

while i find the jailing of citizens for non violent crimes unconstitutional,unfortunately i do not get to decide...once a judge orders a person to pay if that person does not pay they can be jailed

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #34)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:02 PM

43. I'm obviously not laughing about that.

 

And you are distorting what he is saying. I think he gets it in a way very few white people do- and in a way the clueless, morally rudderless Hillary never has and never fucking will.

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Response to cali (Reply #43)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:13 PM

53. How do you distort Sanders saying he had no idea? Seriously?!!

 

He is not well versed in the issues going on in Ferguson. And suggestions like the one above- go earn the 200$ and there's no problem- are emblematic of the thoughtlessness going on here.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #53)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:20 PM

60. I'm sorry but that one clip does not support your claim

 

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Response to cali (Reply #60)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:28 PM

70. It does on some level...

Sanders literally says "honestly it's an issue I was not aware of until [garbled]...)

That's literally what the man himself said.

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #70)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:18 PM

101. Thank you. It's unreal the flat out denial of ANY flaws that goes on.

 

Like it or not- Sanders is learning a lot about the issues right now, and that is awesome. These details are just fucking weird.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #34)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:55 PM

199. "... he suggested Mike Brown needed higher education". What was the context? Link?

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:27 PM

17. yes it is. And hardly the first from the op.

 

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Response to Agschmid (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:35 PM

130. It's not clever enough to be flame-bait n/t

 

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:32 PM

21. Looks like Hillary should be taking a cue from Bernie and Martin:



Doesn't look like she cares enough to address the issues that started the BLM movement.

So much for her "listening" tour.

Is there anyone here who doesn't realize why they're asking the candidates to take a stand and not just pretend to care?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #21)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:57 PM

36. "Campaign Zero" needs to do more research

 

Although it may be just astroturf from the BS crowd as well.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:00 PM

40. So they're either ignorant or working for Bernie?

And you accuse Bernie of not paying attention?

Wow.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:06 PM

46. unbelievable. And you have the gall to lecture Sanders supporters about BLM

 

And criminal justice issues that devastate the black community. You are making a serious allegation that is patently garbage and for which you have not a shred of evidence,out of pique.

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Response to cali (Reply #46)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:12 PM

51. She just let the mask slip.

I'm actually glad she showed her true colours.

Black lives only matter when they can be used against Bernie.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #51)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:22 PM

61. It would seem

That she has friends in that category as well.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #61)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:31 PM

75. I thought some of them might criticize Campaign Zero but to accuse them of this...

Just wow.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #75)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:53 PM

85. just stunned.

 

If that is the typical Hillary voter, no thank you.

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Response to short circuit (Reply #85)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:57 PM

91. I can't believe others in this thread aren't calling her out over this.

The same ones who screamed bloody murder when some of Bernie's supporters questioned BLM's motives.


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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #91)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:28 PM

107. of course not. HYPOCRISY writ large.

 

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #91)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:55 PM

183. 6 recs is as close to "shunning" as they'll get

 

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Response to MoveIt (Reply #183)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 01:00 PM

240. I'm not running to win a popularity contest

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #240)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 02:22 PM

242. Just trying to give HRC supporters some credit

 

I'm giving the other HRC supporters credit for not recommending an OP with wild accusations of BLM activists being secret Sanders supporters.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #51)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:54 PM

87. that happened long ago. you most have missed

 

the real jaw droppers a couple of months ago.

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Response to cali (Reply #87)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:55 PM

88. I probably did.

She's been on involutary vacation for as long as I can remember.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #51)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:28 PM

177. Who thinks they actually believe the shit they post?

 


Is there an HRC supporter leaderboard where they can see who amongst them has made the most outlandish claims?

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Response to MoveIt (Reply #177)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:32 PM

178. They should have a contest.

Among the claims of Bernie having rape fantasies, gun humping and being a racist there's some stiff competition.

And they should get some sort of prize for swift boating a Dem candidate.

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Response to cali (Reply #46)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:13 PM

97. garbage in, garbage out

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:14 PM

55. Campaign Zero is astroturf built by Bernie?



Oh wait, you're serious!

Even. More. Funny.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #55)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:16 PM

58. I think it's a subset of Bernie supporters

 

... that also seem to be self appointed leaders of BLM. Their chart is incorrect, so how else do you explain it?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #58)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:24 PM

62. Not my job to explain anything to you

It's your conspiracy theory / performance art piece.

I'm just pointing and laughing.



Oh, thanks for doubling down on the notion.

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Response to hootinholler (Reply #62)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:29 PM

73. Why do you feel the need to personally attack me....

 

... simply because I don't agree with you?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #73)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:38 PM

81. I'm not attacking you

I'm attacking the preposterous notion that you presented.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #73)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:39 PM

113. please post any evidence that your attack on black activists has any connection to reality.

 

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Response to cali (Reply #113)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:54 PM

117. What attack on Black Activists?

 

You mean that saying that chart is inaccurate? It is. That's not an attack on anyone.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #117)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:08 PM

165. uh, you theorized that they're astroturf for Bernie's campaign. that is an ugly attack

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #117)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:05 PM

200. So you think that AA are not smart enough to create an accurate chart?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #58)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:15 PM

98. So point out the inconsistencies in their chart, if you'd be so kind.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #58)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:30 PM

109. way to double down, trashing black activists for purely political reasons, mags

 

Talk about obvious.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:24 PM

65. So the Campaign ZERO Ferguson activists don't know what they are talking about?

 

You are calling them astroturfers?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:02 PM

92. Educate yourself: Campaign Zero: A 'Blueprint for Ending Police Violence'

Campaign Zero: A 'Blueprint for Ending Police Violence'

?itok=lfT9INao


On Friday, activists with the country's growing racial justice movement unveiled a new campaign to end police violence, bridging protester demands with data and policy to create structural solutions to the crisis that has gripped national attention for more than a year.

Launched as an online manifesto with an interactive website, Campaign Zero proposes new federal, state, and local laws that would address police violence and reform the criminal justice system—including demilitarizing law enforcement, increasing community oversight, limiting use-of-force, and requiring independent investigation and prosecution of police violence cases.

"More than one thousand people are killed by police every year in America," the group states on its website. "Nearly sixty percent of victims did not have a gun or were involved in activities that should not require police intervention such as harmless 'quality of life' behaviors or mental health crises."

The action plan also incorporates recommendations by the President's Task Force on 21st Century Policing as well as those of research organizations like the Center for Popular Democracy. The architects behind Campaign Zero characterized it as a project that will continue to develop over time as new solutions emerge and more supporters come on board.

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/08/21/campaign-zero-blueprint-ending-police-violence

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #36)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:12 PM

96. talk like that would have you labeled as insensitive to their plight..

wow. what a difference a few short weeks and a confrontation with your candidate of choice makes.

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Response to frylock (Reply #96)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:31 PM

110. it is insensitive.

 

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:43 PM

27. It is troubling, but I'm glad he appears to be listening and

taking it all in. He still has a long way to go, which is surprising since I learned that he's originally from Brooklyn New York, which is a lot more diverse than Vermont.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:45 PM

28. what on earth is troubling about that video?

 

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Response to cali (Reply #28)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:51 PM

31. That a man of his age and experience was that out of touch.

But again, I'm glad he's listening now. It's never too late to learn. I hope his supporters are listening / learning too.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:52 PM

32. How is it possible he didn't already know this?

It's been in the news and talked about at length. I'm glad he's aware now but have to wonder how many other democratic leaders don't know.

ETA: I don't wonder about republicans because they wouldn't care anyway.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #32)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 03:56 PM

33. That's what I'm saying....

 

I was dumbfounded by his statement in this video. SMH.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #32)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:14 PM

54. Probably most of them don't know

 

It's discussed extensively here at DU, but it's not reported at any news that I've read at length or at all.

I've learned about it here on DU.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #54)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:23 PM

205. I actually never read about it on DU.

Last edited Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:01 PM - Edit history (1)

I had a heavy workload at the time and heard it on several TV news programs that I kept on for background noise while working.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:11 PM

50. I think Bernie has done this his whole career...

 

and I don't think Hillary's "listening tours" which have been invitation only and very limited as to who gets to meet with her, serve as any "example."

I think I hear him say at the, "This is an issue I was unfamiliar with until I talked to your representatives." I don't know when he spoke with their representatives.

Understand, you will NOT find this issue in the northeast, which is why this is a new issue to many of us. There probably are other parts of the country where it doesn't happen.

I only learned about this issue on DU. I haven't seen anything about it outside of DU. It was totally shocking to me when I read about it here.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #50)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:17 PM

59. You didn't see anything about the DOJ Ferguson report....

 

.... outside of DU? Really? I find that hard to believe unless you are boycotting all forms of media.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #59)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:34 PM

77. I live rurally, I don't have tv or cable, I spend too much time on DU

 

and when I'm not crashing and burning (on DU), I'm working or taking care of my home.

I read about things on DU, follow the links, read the articles.

I'm just this summer starting to have more time off. I've been more focussed on surviving -- hanging by a thread really -- for the last 5 years, than anything else.

I only broke down and got high speed internet last year, when I swapped out my landline for a tracfone.

I pretty much do boycott much of media, especially mainstream. The only print newspaper I get is a local, free weekly. I do occasionally see other newspapers at work, but still pretty small and rural.

Since I moved up here (rural Maine), the only POC I see are mostly at work because I don't socialize at all.

I fell out of "normal" society 15 years ago when my career crashed and burned. I've never really found my way back in and now I have no desire to.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #59)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:24 PM

104. You don't even know about Campaign Zero and you're claiming others don't know about Ferguson?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #104)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:53 PM

116. Where did you get the idea I don't know who Campaign Zero is?

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #116)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:57 PM

119. From your post #36 where you called them clueless shills for Bernie, where else?:

MaggieD (3,162 posts)

36. "Campaign Zero" needs to do more research

Although it may be just astroturf from the BS crowd as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=545849


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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:25 PM

66. In reading the comments--it seems that SC Bernie fans do not know that Hillary does Town Halls

listens and asks question --all along (except for her big one in NYC).

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Response to riversedge (Reply #66)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:30 PM

74. I guess they don't know that....

 

But it is one of the things that make her such a good candidate, IMO.

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Response to riversedge (Reply #66)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:35 PM

78. they have also read that she coaches and plants questions in the crowd

 

which is like talking to yourself.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:53 PM

86. Give me a freakin break

 

Bernie has been listening to voters for MORE THAN THIRTY YEARS!!!!!

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 04:56 PM

90. no, this is NOT flamebait

Well, thank goodness for clearing that up.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:07 PM

93. Your post makes it pretty obvious you haven't been listening to Bernie for the last decade

He has been doing an hourly segment every week for at least that long. Taking calls and questions from an uncensored public. Are there any other candidates who can boast that level of interaction with the public?
Bernie's' lack of putting BLM and police abuse of power front and center is not giving an honest interpretation of what he has spent his whole life working for.
Those two issues are at the core of what he has worked to correct but it's counterproductive to focus a major issue within a narrow framework.
Another bigger picture understanding is that NO single politician can undo hundreds of years of racial bias through legislation. You can't change hearts and minds through legislation.
What you can do is eliminate the institutionalized racism by correcting policies that allow taking advantage of those with less political or economic power.
I'm sure I'll get shit for this but if you can correct some of the economic butt fucking we have all had to endure, we might just have the space to understand that the guy next to you isn't the problem regardless of the color of his skin.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:18 PM

100. Video of Bernie speaking at SCLC in July:

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:24 PM

105. Why are you concerned about it at all?

You have chosen your candidate, who would not
be effected by this.

Okay, then your concern has been noted.

If not a flame bait, then very DIVISIVE!

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:49 PM

114. Clue? Nope, not a one.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 05:54 PM

118. This is goofy. I'll bet if you asked HRC if she knew about CDOs and tranches,

 

she'd have the same look. At least I hope she would. Silliness.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:24 PM

125. Welcome back

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:37 PM

132. On the positive side

I like that he just says he was honestly not familiar with the issue. I know he should be, but at least he's not a Republican.

These kinds of things are Bernie's challenge. He can overcome over the next few months, but he really needs to get up to speed.

It will be the difference between winning and losing for him.

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Response to GitRDun (Reply #132)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:45 PM

143. Seems like a pretty big issue

 

.....for him to just be learning about it now.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:41 PM

138. I'm sure glad Sanders has stopped hobnobbing with the wealthy...

 

glad he has stepped outside of the elite bubble of DC/Wall St. he lives in. Glad he hass gotten off the golf links, and no longer has martinis with his friends at Goldman Sachs......

Maybe if he leave his privileged circle of Oligarch's that he surrounds himself with, he'll venture outside to hear what real people whp donl;t make $400,000 a speech think. He's been so insulated all these years.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #138)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:46 PM

144. He could have known about this issue.....

 

.... just by doing the job he is already being paid to do. Or picking up a newspaper.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #144)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:59 PM

157. You are distorting a lifetime of work on these issues because of a few holes of knowledge about...

 

specific situations in locations.

You claim to want a valid discussion. But you focus on one time he had a reaction that was an honest bit of startlment at one aspects of a much larger picture -- which he has addressed on many levels over the years.


Jezum. It;s like calling someone who holds a home-run record a lousy ballplayer if he has an occasional strike out or foul ball.

If you would bother to actually look at Sanders record,public statements, life and political experiences over the years, there is no way in hell you can claim that he is oblivious to these issues or "out of touch"with what people are going through.





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Response to MaggieD (Reply #144)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:20 PM

169. He IS doing his job

he is out talking to people every day. WTF do you think he is doing? Schmoozing in the gym making deals or having parties for Wall Street and Banking donors? The man is traveling all over the country to talk to people, I doubt he has much of a chance to even read a paper or watch the news. If he did not know he needs to get the staffers to keep him up. That would be the only fault I could even think of here. Jesus I could not do what he does and keep up with it.

Good lord, don't you ever look outside your room and see that he is earning this with his own sweat and blood? Do you want someone who will go to the mat for you or someone who will snap their fingers and get he and she to help you maybe?

Really, you should stop. At first I thought you were naïve now it is just getting pitiful.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:46 PM

145. You have serious misgivings because he can't be on top of everything? No one in that video had

misgivings -- because they cared that he listened and responded. They just didn't say, "our legal system aids and abets the criminalizing of poverty," which would have immediately clicked with him, perhaps. But. This has little or nothing to do with cues from Hillary.

By "having misgivings" you're casting shade based on one event. There are many such events happening across 50 states in the third biggest country on the planet.

For me and others, you'll have to do better to justify any "serious misgivings" about Sanders. What are the other "reasons like these." Or are you fishing.

All the while, provide yet another thread that -- under cover of "a right to have an opinion about that on a site like DU" -- feeds into the divisiveness of insinuating candidate deficits, shade casting on posters who go for or defend one or the other candidate.

edit: All right, I'll answer your answer...

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Response to ancianita (Reply #145)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 06:52 PM

151. I think it's a huge issue for him to be clueless about, yes

 

Like I said, I doubt there is one true liberal on FB or DU that was ignorant of what he apparently was not aware of. Not really concerned what 10 people in a room thought. Nor did they say what they thought.

Don't you think a presidential candidate should have read the publicly available Ferguson report at the very least?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #151)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:06 PM

162. Know why they're more aware than he? Because they are not out there running a campaign.

Daily briefings about national and international issues, yes.

Briefings about 50 different legal jurisdictions' practices, no.

There's nothing clueless listening, learning and thinking about what voters tell you. Notice all the praise about his approach in the Comments posts?

Implying that not having perfect command of every campaign stop's issues says way more about you than it does about Bernie.

Watch for the pattern of this to make your case. You really haven't yet, and I'm waiting to see what else you come up with.

Remember Obama's "57 states" comment? Inside your own party, don't be like those people.

I'm ready to defend Hillary against all Republican attackers. Are you ready to do the same for Bernie?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #151)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:10 PM

166. Bernie Sanders is stupid and uninformed and doesn't know or care about issues

 

There, I just saved you some time on posting.

Rinse and repeat.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #166)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:16 PM

168. You should add the sarcasm smilie or the alerters will get your post hidden.

It's a sport now, I've served on juries where the alerter lied about the post they were alerting on.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #168)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:21 PM

170. I hope the sarcasm is so obvious it doesn't need

 

one.

And if they want to hide it for lack of a large red sign to inform them, then let 'em hide it. They'd hide it anyway.

I've only had one post hidden on DU in 14 years.....If I'm going to blemish my record, it might as well be for a good cause.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #170)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:23 PM

172. Well I'm hoping any jurors will read my response to you and see through any attempt to hide it.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #166)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:59 PM

185. Never said that

 

As I've said repeatedly my opinion is that he's not one to listen much. I believe he has his own ideas and doesn't seek information because he is convinced he already knows all he needs to know.

That's a much bigger problem than being "stupid" and I don't think he is stupid.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #185)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:08 PM

189. If he didn't listen or care, he would have cashed in long ago

 

Toned down his message, become a nice nebbishy Congressman/Senator, get a nice cushy lobbyist job and enjoyed his retirement in the hills of Vermont.

Or he could have gotten on his haunches and done a Sista Soljah on BLM, and had a nice polite "centrist" message and avoid the subject of the concentration of wealth and the excessive power of Wall St. and Big Banks.

I really don't care what candidate you support, or what specific policy, message or position you might disagree with Sanders about, or raise here on DU.

But I truly object to you helping to push false memes about someone who has basically spent his whole life standing up for and with average people and the disadvantaged and minorities and women.

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Response to Armstead (Reply #189)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:12 PM

191. ^^^ THIS ^^^

But I truly object to you helping to push false memes about someone who has basically spent his whole life standing up for and with average people and the disadvantaged and minorities and women.



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Response to Armstead (Reply #189)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:23 PM

206. Actually if he cared about others opinions....

 

He would know this stuff. I didn't say he didn't care about people, period. I said he thinks he knows all he needs to know.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #206)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:27 PM

212. whatever

 

not going around this circle anymore

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #151)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:20 PM

204. oh to be a fly on the wall

 

when this meme was workshopped... LOL

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Response to MoveIt (Reply #204)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:25 PM

208. I got the vid off a Bernie supporter FB page

 

Who is a friend of mine. She shared the video. Not a "meme" - sorry.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #208)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:27 PM

211. thanks!

 

It's ridiculous on it's face but you probably got that from the reactions to this thread.

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Response to MoveIt (Reply #211)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:28 PM

213. What's "ridiculous on its face" ???

 

Did he not say, in the video, that he was unaware of it?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #213)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:30 PM

216. How about your claim that Campaign Zero is astroturfing for Bernie?

Still haven't answered for that and I gave you a link to an article about them.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #216)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:35 PM

219. I answered others on that

 

I don't think I'm obligated to repeat myself multiple times in the same thread.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #219)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:36 PM

221. Where did you back up your claim?

I just checked and I can't find it.

Link?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #213)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:30 PM

217. " Is Bernie taking a cue from Hillary?"

 

The title of this OP, is silly, flamebait despite your protestations otherwise.

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Response to MoveIt (Reply #217)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:33 PM

218. I disagree

 

I think it's a completely legit concern, and I'm far from the first person to notice this a out Bernie. YMMV.

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Response to MoveIt (Reply #204)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:25 PM

209. They had lots of time to create it.

When you're on a time out from posting you have to find something to do with all that free time.

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #209)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:37 PM

222. When I'm not on time out for daring to criticize Bernie....

 

And support Hillary instead? How progressive is that? Why is it wrong to have a different opinion than you?

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #222)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:38 PM

223. Sure, lol! That's why your posts were hidden, for "criticizing" Bernie.

What about all of the time outs you got before Bernie supporters hijacked DU and padded the juries?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #223)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:39 PM

225. I didn't have any prior to that

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #225)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:42 PM

226. No hidden posts?

Or just time outs?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #226)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:15 PM

230. Nope - not a single one

 

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #230)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:28 PM

231. And none of your posts "criticizing" Bernie deserved to be hidden?

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Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #231)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:29 PM

232. Nope

 

Not a one.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #232)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:29 PM

233. LMAO!!!

You had me going, Maggie, I actually thought you were serious for a minute there...


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Response to MaggieD (Reply #232)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 12:58 PM

239. lol. unbelievable.

 

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Response to ancianita (Reply #145)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:51 PM

181. That's a MAJOR current issue

 

Major. And IMO you'd have to be living in a huge bubble to not be aware of it prior to that vid being taken.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 07:28 PM

176. I like the way Hillary is handling her campaign, by having townhall meetings, she is able to hear

what those attending are concerned with, to respond accordingly. She also delivers her policies during these meetings. It gives a better opportunity for people to be closer to the candidate.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 08:55 PM

197. No, he isn't a weather vane

 

But thanks for trying.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:13 PM

201. Have any come right out and said it?

 

Have any of the candidates publicly stated what we know to be true? That black people get cited for a broken tail light, then have the SWAT team come to their home when they fail to get it fixed? I know all the candidates have their staff people review stuff like the Ferguson report, but which of them has come out publicly and said what you just said?

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #201)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:15 PM

202. That's not the issue here

 

The issue is him apparently having no clue the problem existed.

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Response to MaggieD (Reply #202)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:24 PM

207. OK, but you said he apparently got clued in

 

So what is he doing about it? How about the other candidates?

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Response to HassleCat (Reply #207)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:26 PM

210. He said it - not me

 

"I wasn't aware of that" - direct quote from Bernie.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 09:29 PM

214. oh maggie

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:00 PM

228. BWAHAHAHA!



You're trying to spin Bernie being Bernie into what?

Bernie has been listening to people his entire career. He does these town halls everywhere.

That Bernie wasn't aware of the particular issue before that is a little surprising to me, but judging from his reaction it will probably end up as an example in a stump speech.

The notion that he's taking a leaf from Hillary's book is completely absurd. This is what he does, always has done and it's why I know we need him in the white house.

BTW, I a little surprised that no one has chastised you for using the term ragging on. A bit misogynistic, eh? I figured some here would be all over that.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 12:47 PM

237. "I have a right to have an opinion"....


How many times do you pseudopoliticals have to be told?

It doesn't matter whether you have a "right" to an opinion, no right to your opinion protects you from being told it's shit.

I can't believe I have to keep saying this. It's like you think stating things means you're entitled to an expectation of being agreed with all the time. It's utter nonsense.

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Thu Aug 27, 2015, 09:06 PM

243. Wyclef Jean, Canibus - Gone Till November

 



this one goes out to the OP

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Response to MaggieD (Original post)

Fri Aug 28, 2015, 07:54 AM

244. Oh, don't mind me

I'm just swing by to check your transparency page.

It looks rather vanilla to me.

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