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[KMOD]

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[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. Elevating?

He is the best on women's rights and on civil rights.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. He is excellent on women's issues and civil rights

[Rosa Luxemburg]

7. Across the board he is excellent

[jfern]

11. What issues are those?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

149. All

A president has to be decisive on all issues not a weather-vane

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Bernie's fought for equality for ALL people for decades

Has Clinton?

[jfern]

32. She opposed SSM at the beginning of 2013

And last year she said it should be left to the states. Most states got SSM because of federal courts.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/21/why-hillary-clinton-s-same-sex-marriage-stance-has-split-gay-supporters.html

So she's been pretty terrible there.

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Remind us... in what year did Clinton begin to approve of same-sex marriage?

[beam me up scottie]

40. Bernie can't be a first lady and Hillary marched with lgbt people while opposing same sex marriage.

[beam me up scottie]

52. I'm not being mean.

I thought it was cute.

[MannyGoldstein]

42. There's a self-delete function if you happen to

reconsider this post.

[frylock]

168. Marching for equality while opposing equality?

How does that work?

[MADem]

116. Remind us...in what year did Bernie write less-than-progressive "rape fiction?"

Oh, people can EVOLVE, you say...?

Or would that only be SOME people who are allowed to do that?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/28/politics/bernie-sanders-rape-essay-1972/

Bernie Sanders distances himself from 'dumb' 1972 essay on rape

New York (CNN)Bernie Sanders' campaign tried on Thursday to distance the presidential candidate from a 1972 essay in which he wrote -- among other things -- a women "fantasizes being raped by three men simultaneously."

Michael Briggs, Sanders' newly minted campaign spokesman, said the article was a "dumb attempt at dark satire in an alternative publication" that "in no way reflects his views or record on women."

"It was intended to attack gender stereotypes of the '70s, but it looks as stupid today as it was then," Briggs told CNN.

[beam me up scottie]

117. So he evolved as a writer, that's better than having to evolve on civil rights.

I don't see the point here.

According to your article the essay "was intended to attack gender stereotypes of the '70s".

It's not like he has "rape fantasies" like some here claim.

We're discussing who supported women's and lgbt rights for the past 40 years, not who had wrote a bad essay in 1972.

That's just silly.

[MADem]

118. Oh, he "evolved" as a lot more than just a writer. That essays was a clinker in more ways than one

He "attacked stereotypes" by insisting that women enjoyed rape fantasies.

That's a "Playboy After Dark" form of "attacking stereotypes."

Keep defending him re: this, if you'd like....even though he has had the good sense to call it a Major Turd. There's no way anyone can -- without playing the pretzel logic game--call this anything other than what it is: DUMB. Sanders gets that, why can't you?

[beam me up scottie]

119. Who's defending him? I don't think he's any less of an advocate because he wrote something stupid.

Please explain why I should be outraged over a silly essay that was written over 40 years ago.

Because I've seen it regurgitated countless times here and I'm still not hysterical about it.

And neither are any other Bernistas.

Perhaps you can enlighten us.

[MADem]

120. You are--with that "evolved as a writer" comment.

That wasn't just about "bad writing." That was about dumb-ass views re: women. Sanders was smart enough to distance himself from his own work, but his supporters have a myopic view that he can do no wrong, so they defend even the indefensible....and that piece of hack-craptastic garbage is just that.

Given the content under discussion, your use of the term "hysterical" is a bit off putting, to be kind. If you're unable to grasp why that's a poor word choice, I think "enlightenment" is a long way away for you.

Please explain why I should be outraged over a silly essay that was written over 40 years ago.

Because I've seen it regurgitated countless times here and I'm still not hysterical about it.

And neither are any other Bernistas.

Perhaps you can enlighten us.

[beam me up scottie]

122. Right, you got nothing.

So you'll understand why I'm still not buying what you're selling.

I'm a proud Bernista who knows Bernie has the best record on women's rights.

But I appreciate your being outraged on my behalf.

I think it's super that you're looking out for me.


Really.


Just awesome on every level.

I can't thank you enough for your concern.


Honest.

[MADem]

123. I was right on point. The whole "got nothing" meme is an attempt to scurry away from

sordid truth. Truth Sanders has freely acknowledged. So, I'd have to say, I sure as hell "got something" since his campaign has already called the thing DUMB, among other characterizations.

The use of "outraged" and "awesome" and "concern"and "honest" are insufficient salad to take away from that point, too--and the is also a big fail. And I'm not "looking out for" you--so why even say something like that?

Sanders admits that article was a big fuckup--you just can't admit that he's right on that score, which, in itself, is kind of odd.

[beam me up scottie]

124. "you just can't admit that he's right on that score" Bzzzzzzzzzzzzt!

Wrong again my overly concerned about Bernie but not very observant friend:


Me about the DUBM!!1! essay I'm not admitting something or other about:

Who's defending him? I don't think he's any less of an advocate because he wrote something stupid.

Thanks for playing though.


It's been a real slice!

[MADem]

125. I'm not "playing." I can see how you'd think it was a game.

I'm afraid, looking at it from that perspective, that you've still lost. It's not a "silly" essay--it's a boneheaded, dumb one. He admits it--you keep trying to fluff it away as less consequential than it actually was.

Maybe you should go read it again. It'll make your skin crawl. "Silly?" Not so much.

[beam me up scottie]

126. Why? Do you think a woman can't possibly understand what he meant when they read it the first time?

I'm afraid, looking at it from that perspective, that you've still lost. It's not a "silly" essay

you keep trying to fluff it away as less consequential than it actually was.

Maybe you should go read it again.

So either:

a) My little female brain is incapable of understanding what I read.

or

b) I did understand it and am just not properly outraged by it because I'm not sensitive enough to women's issues.


But either way I should definitely run back and read it again so that I'll see where I went wrong and exhibit the appropriate reaction.


Coming from a man I find both implications to be quite patronizing, frankly.


I read it the first two times it was posted here, after that my eyes just glaze over whenever I see a HC supporter screeching about BERNIE'S RAPE FANTASIES ARGLE BARGLE!!!


It's the same reaction HC supporters have whenever someone screeches BENGHAZI!



Keep beating that dead horse, though.


WHACK WHACK WHACK!


It may just get up and start galloping around GD P for you.


I have faith in you, MADem.

[MADem]

127. How about a third option?

C.) Even though Sanders stepped in a huge, stinking pile of shit, and he admits it is a huge, stinking pile of shit, you are so enamoured of the candidate that you think you are "helping" when you minimize, trivialize, justify, excuse and pooh-pooh boneheaded, sexist, clueless, ghastly statements by the candidate ... that even HE disavows.

When we're comparing dead horses--and that IS what this sub-thread is about, in case you have forgotten--that Sanders one is larger, smellier, and more fetid. That IS why Sanders distanced himself from it, and issued a statement saying it doesn't reflect his current views.

[beam me up scottie]

129. Nope. The thread is about Sanders' record, not MADem's outrage about a 42 year old essay.

This sub thread started because Hillary's record on same sex marriage was brought up and since you couldn't refute the facts posted you keep

WHACK WHACK WHACKING

the essay.

That I'm not appropriately outraged about.

Because you say so.



But do go on, I love seeing you try to come up with even more descriptive terms for his essay.

Let's see what we've got, so far you've called it:



less-than-progressive

'dumb'

a clinker in more ways than one

Major Turd

DUMB

dumb-ass

piece of hack-craptastic garbage

DUMB, among other characterizations

a big fuckup

boneheaded, dumb

make your skin crawl

huge, stinking pile of shit

boneheaded, sexist, clueless, ghastly

larger, smellier, and more fetid




VERY impressive.




You get a snickerdoodle!


Maybe you could call it dumb a few more times - for maximum effect.

I mean it can't hurt, right?


Maybe then I'll FINALLY start to understand how truly awful and misogynistic Bernie is and why I shouldn't support him even though his record is far superior to Hillary's when it comes to supporting civil rights.


C'mon now, MADem!

Break out that dusty old thesaurus!

Give it all you've got!

[MADem]

131. Nope, back at ya. Pull the string and see where I came into this squaredance.

My comments were in response to an attempt to --to use your term--beat a dead horse WRT Clinton's views.

So, sorry--your "c'mon now" stuff doesn't fly. This subthread is quite particularly about "dead horse beating" and invalid comparisons. That's just not up for debate, and all the bolding and emoticons in the world aren't going to change that fact.

[beam me up scottie]

134. You didn't like Manny's video so you brought up the essay for the 215471547th time on DU.

It's your go-to meme, the default position whenever Hillary's record is brought up.

HC supporters keep chanting RAPE FANTASY like it's some kind of anti-Bernie ju ju that will scare away all the wimmenfolk.

Instead of explaining why Hillary's civil rights record is better than Bernie's.

Because that would be hard.

I understand, really I do. If I was in your shoes I might just be desperate enough to keep recycling the same old memes.


But I don't have to, thankfully I've got Bernie's record to use in this kind of "debate".

[MADem]

135. Now you're starting to grasp the point--see, that "dead horse beating" thing that you were

carping about, why, that's a two way street. Yes, indeed.

If ya don't like being on the receiving end of it, it's always a pro move to eschew dishing it out in the first place. That was the point I was making, and it wooshed right over your head because you were too busy trying to be a bit too clever by half.

No one is "chanting" anything--except to point out the extreme hypocrisy of people who refuse to acknowledge that people can--and do--change their points of view. Just like Sanders and Clinton have done in the two examples noted in this subthread.

The desperation came upthread--in the post to which I replied. You failed to follow the conversation and now you're in a bit of a fix. You probably would have done well to not jump in and "help" poor Bernie defend remarks he had no desire to defend in the first place.

Bottom line, though, is that this isn't about me and you'd do well to abandon that line.

[beam me up scottie]

136. LMAO! You really think that you've brought me around?

That you've convinced me that a "dumb" 42 year old essay on gender stereotypes is in any way comparable to denying lgbt people their civil rights?

Nope.

Fail.

Again.

Good luck selling that to the next customer.

You'd better hope they're too clueless to know the difference between bad writing and telling people theyre inferior.

And you'd better hope I'm not around because every time you parrot this meme I'm going to counter it.


Having to evolve on communicating your thoughts is not in any way comparable to having to evolve on civil rights.

Repeating it doesn't make it any less absurd.

[MADem]

137. First you got personal, now you're just getting churlish.

You jumped into the sub-thread, I was polite to you, but now I'm done. Pack up your "absurdity" and take it along to someone who cares. You missed the point I was making, and now you are spinning excuses. I just don't really care about your opinion--sorry.

[beam me up scottie]

138. Now responding to someone is "jumping into" a subthread?

Am I supposed to wait for my turn?

Do I need to say please when I ask permission to speak?

I'm learning so much from you today.

Continue.

[MADem]

171. You weren't "responding" to me--I was "responding" to someone else.

And you jumped in to provide an answer in lieu of a response from the person with whom I was interacting.

So yeah--that's "jumping in." You're free to do it, but don't pretend it was anything other than what it was.

[beam me up scottie]

172. Sure I was. See first I read your post, then I clicked the reply button and voila!

I responded to you!

[MADem]

185. And now, you're, in essence, beating a dead horse. nt

[jfern]

4. I don't think anyone ever tried to elevate him over MLK

The reason people mentioned those things was because he was being protested by BLM and people were saying he didn't respond well. Of course if we want to talk about a living civil rights hero, we know it's John Lewis, Bobby Rush, or John Conyers, and not Bernie Sanders. Well, now he's met with BLM many times, has a BLM activist as his National Press Secretary, and has been working with BLM on improving his racial justice platform.

Hillary is not the MLK of women's rights, and Sanders can be as good as her there.

[jfern]

9. I'm not sure how he can't be as good as her there

And any case, regardless of this, he's much better on foreign policy than her. Sanders isn't about only certain issues.

[jfern]

16. Well

He didn't support the Iraq war. He didn't vote for Kyl-Lieberman to allow the Bush administration to wage war with Iran. He didn't support arming the Syrian jihadists. He didn't support overthrowing the democratically elected President of Honduras. He didn't support forcing other countries to frack.

Having experience doesn't mean having better foreign policy.

The idea that Sanders should only talk about the economy is laughable.

[jfern]

24. You said Hillary was better on foreign policy though

As for what you're voting for, Sanders has never supported fracking. Sanders got a clause added to the ACA that allows for a state to have single payer healthcare. I don't know how Hillary would be better on any of those issues.

[Live and Learn]

54. You do realize that 'freaking Iraq War' killed hundreds of thousands of people including women.

How is that for supporting women's issues?

[Live and Learn]

67. Really? Certainly not in my opinion.

That is precisely why I cannot support Hillary. She is not better than Bernie on women's issues or any other issues.

[Live and Learn]

152. What an odd response. nt

[Live and Learn]

162. And I responded to your post in post #161.

But that had nothing to do with your odd response of, "I don't care how you vote."

[Live and Learn]

167. Ditto dat.

I was just pointing out your silly arguments.

[Cry]

141. Sounds like a Bernie supporter to me.

[Jim Lane]

93. Praising Clinton based on her mere title, without reference to record, is truly absurd.

You ask, "And how the heck can you honestly state that a Vermont Senator has better foreign policy than a former Secretary of State."

OK, bait taken: I can honestly state that a Vermont Senator has better foreign policy than Al Haig, a former Secretary of State. I can honestly state that a Vermont Senator has better foreign policy than Condi Rice, a former Secretary of State.

No, this doesn't mean that Clinton is as bad as Haig or Rice. What it does mean is that the mere appeal to a title proves just about nothing.

What are the differences between Clinton and Sanders on foreign policy? Two big issues that immediately come to my mind are the Iraq War and the TPP. On both of them, Sanders has a better record than Clinton. That's not a comprehensive assessment of the foreign policy positions of either of them, but it's a good start.

[jfern]

64. Why? How are his positions on the issues worse?

[phleshdef]

58. As far as I know, both their voting records on women's rights are solid.

To say "no where close" is no where close to the truth. Both Bernie and Hillary get an A+ from me when it comes to women's rights.

[cascadiance]

101. No one I know claimed that Bernie was better than MLK. Many of us called ATTENTION TO MLK...

... because MLK, like Bernie today, established the need in his day that to solve civil rights issues, that we also need to address economic issues as well. Bernie and many of us having nothing but respect for him on that, and drew attention to MLK, because Bernie, like MLK, has tried to put forth that same message.

When Sanders was doing a lot of work protesting segregation back in the 60's, Ms. Clinton was campaigning for Barry Goldwater, who at that time voted AGAINST the 1964 Civil Rights Act Bill as noted here, and wasn't really big on civil rights in his day as this page notes.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2014/06/barry-goldwater-declares-that-the-1964-civil-rights-act-is-a-dire-threat-to-the-liberties-of-african-americans-and-will-creat.html

I wonder why Hillary was so drawn to him then...

[Scuba]

128. Please explain how voting for the IWR and use of cluster bombs supports women.

[Live and Learn]

161. Bernie's record is even more outstanding on Women's issues

and he didn't vote to authorize the war.

[Live and Learn]

165. His voting on a women's right to her own body is far superior to Clinton's

whether you agree or not.

[Scuba]

166. Her IWR vote is not a "single" issue for me. It's a big one, but only one of several ...

... that should disqualify her for running for President as a Democrat.

[Iliyah]

5. K & R

[beam me up scottie]

12. Hillary supported a proposed ban on late-term abortions.

I do consider Bernie to be better than her on women's rights.

Clinton Seeking Shared Ground Over Abortions

Mrs. Clinton supported a proposed ban on late-term abortions as long as it included an exception to protect the health of the mother; in turn, she has opposed such a ban when it lacked that exception. She has also supported some state parental notification laws under which a teenager must involve at least one parent in the decision -- but only when there is an exception in the laws that allows the judge to bypass the law and let the teenager obtain an abortion on her own -- a process known as "judicial bypass," which Mrs. Clinton has also supported before.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/25/nyregion/clinton-seeking-shared-ground-over-abortions.html?_r=0

[jfern]

13. Yep, Sanders has supported having no laws limiting abortion since the 1970s

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago

[beam me up scottie]

15. That link is to an article comparing his record on lgbt rights to Hillary's.

Did you have another link?

[jfern]

17. It's good here too

"Let's abolish all laws dealing with abortion, ...."

[beam me up scottie]

18. Oops, missed that!

Thank you.

Well done.

[jfern]

21. That was about "partial birth abortion"

which was a term invented by anti-abortion activists. Almost every state bans abortion after 28 weeks or earlier, so 8th or 9th month is kind of irrelevant.

[jfern]

26. Here's the limits so you can see

And this is 2 years ago, so likely fewer than the 9 states then that allowed 3rd trimester abortions.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/06/18/us/politics/abortion-restrictions.html

[beam me up scottie]

25. Women don't terminate their healthy 8 or 9 month old fetuses.

No doctor would terminate a healthy third trimester fetus. That is a right wing myth and it's insulting to women.

Why do people get late term abortions?

There are all kinds of assumptions made about those who have late term abortions – with myths of laziness, apathy, and cruelty creating the stigma – and this stigma is detrimental to those who need these procedures.

But what are the reasons people have for actually getting late term abortions?

First, I’ll tell you what they’re not.

Late term abortions are not “used as birth control,” despite this illogical cultural myth that they are.

Because really, I’ll just travel to Germantown, Maryland and spend three days and $10,000 there every time I want to take birth control. It’s that easy.

Late term abortions are not easy. First and second trimester abortions might be for those with the support and resources.

But late term abortions unfortunately aren’t. The endless barriers and challenges make them difficult, complex, and expensive procedures, thanks in part to a culture that wishes they did

...

Who is performing them?

While anti-abortion clinic harassment and violence affects every abortion clinic, clinics and doctors who perform late term abortions are frequent targets, often experiencing the most devastating violence.

For years leading up to the tragic assassination of late-term abortion provider Dr. George Tiller in 2010, anti-choice extremists engaged in constant scare tactics aimed at Dr. Tiller and his clinic in Kansas. His murder only added fuel to the fire of fear experienced by late-term abortion providers, perpetuated by anti-choice activists and a culture that supports them.

The sadness that surrounded Dr. Tiller’s murder was made worse by the fact that the world had lost not only a great man, but also one of the last remaining late-term abortion doctors.

There remain today only 4 doctors left in the U.S. who perform third trimester abortions.

That’s three clinics, meaning that when a person needs a late-term abortion, they have only three places to go in the entire country.

http://everydayfeminism.com/2014/06/truth-late-term-abortions/

I understand that some people are opposed to abortion and you are welcome to your opinion, but we're discussing women's rights here and late term abortion should be safe, legal, affordable and available to all women.

I don't need politicians telling me what I can and cannot do with my body.

[Iliyah]

27. Oh my gosh sweeite, since you do not comply with BS supporters

they will surely block, banned and delete this thread. From what I have read and witnessed on the DU, no other opinion is allowed unless its pro-BS.

K & R

I Support you!

[Jim Lane]

90. Sorry to disappoint you but....

I greatly prefer Sanders to Clinton, and I thought the OP was silly, but I was the swing vote on the jury, which voted against hiding the OP, 3-4. Not every silly attack on Sanders and/or his supporters is a TOS violation.

But, since you've raised the accusation of partisan hides... what do you think about this one? The OP featured Sanders in his own words and then Clinton in her own words on the subject of H-1B visas. The trouble is that presenting actual facts like that made Clinton look bad, and it got a hide. I'll go out on a limb and say that the votes were from Clinton supporters operating on a basis of "no other opinion is allowed unless it's pro-Clinton."

[Jim Lane]

142. In case it wasn't clear, I voted to Leave it alone.

I've frequently seen the complaint (such as by Iliyah in #27, the post I was answering) that members of the other camp are abusing the jury system by voting to hide every post they dislike, TOS be damned. Iliyah attributed this behavior to Sanders supporters; the example I gave looks like an instance by Clinton supporters.

I often vote against hiding a post I disagree with. Usually, in such cases, I use my juror comments to note my disagreement. The author of the alerted post shouldn't get the idea that a Leave-it-alone verdict means the jury agrees with him or her.

In this instance, I gather that you're grateful to three of the four jurors who voted to Leave it alone. My exclusion from your gratitude has so shaken me that I'm going to have to go look at the LOLcats to recover my equanimity. Good thing we have SCE around.

[Live and Learn]

57. I don't see that as being strong on women's rights. nt

[beam me up scottie]

49. It wouldn't just be nice, KMOD, it would be true equality.

[questionseverything]

159. i did not realize that

so many issues to keep track of

i am not a hillary supporter anyways but i find it crazy that she could climb so high in the democratic party if she supports any position that denys women the right to chose what they do with their own bodies

[Luminous Animal]

20. Links to those who elevate him over MLK. Never happened. The joke is on you for trying to

propagandize linking Bernie with Trump.

We don't buy it. The populace won't buy it.

[Luminous Animal]

33. Link. To those who elevate Sanders OVER King. You can send them via PM if you prefer.

And when I receive them. I will start an OP with a public apology.

[phleshdef]

63. You mean you have no interest in backing up something you pulled out of your ass.

[phleshdef]

72. When you accuse Bernie supporters of "elevating him above MLK" while refusing to back up your claims

...then you have lost any and all right to lecture anyone about "adult conservation".

[phleshdef]

83. Why do a "very select few" even deserve discussion?

I'm sure there are a very select few of Hillary Clinton supporters who have all kinds of shitty ideas and opinions.

[jfern]

94. They're all perfect angels?

[MannyGoldstein]

82. This is exactly the stuff that drives me nuts

They make stuff up and expect people to buy it.

What kind of people do this stuff?

[phleshdef]

86. Its just all part of the idiotic intra-party sniping we get into around here.

Personally, I'll have no part of it. I'm backing Bernie all the way but will vote for the Democratic nominee in November 2016, regardless. This petty squabbling that has nothing to do with the real issues has no place in my life for the most part. So far, our candidates have been pretty classy in regard to the way they treat each other on the campaign trail. I suggest we emulate them and stick to promoting our preferred candidates on their merits instead of trying to drag down the other candidates due to their flaws. Thats what Bernie seems to want.

[Bluenorthwest]

144. But you are the original digger and poster of this crap, your interest in it is why others are

challenging you to support your assertion. Which you are attempting to evade. You made the claim in an OP. You have been challenged. Support your assertion.

[seabeyond]

34. that article stating sanders is a better advocate for women, than clinton was written by an employee

of his

can you believe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251557253#post192

[beam me up scottie]

35. He is. And as a woman who supports Bernie I can certainly believe it.

Perhaps you'd like to discuss the reasons why Bernie isn't a better advocate.

How about some facts?

[seabeyond]

39. he PAYS her to say this shit. so ya... he is stating, in his arrogance, that he deems himself

a better womans advocate than clinton.

[beam me up scottie]

41. Stick to the facts, sea.

Tell me why Hillary is better on women's rights.

[seabeyond]

44. the fact is sanders paid a woman to tell the nation that HE, a man, is a better advocate for women

than a woman that has spent her life, traveling the world addressing women and girls needs.

[beam me up scottie]

50. Facts citing the reasons why I should believe you when you say Hillary is a better advocate.

Focus, sea.

[seabeyond]

55. i am focused on sanders paying someone to do a hit piece on clintons role as a woman/girl advocate

dismissing all she has accomplished and done. ya... i am focused. you can damn well bet i am focused. and i will continue to be focused for a while. i cannot believe the audacity and arrogance of this man paying for this article.

you know that authentic man that you all preach? he crashed and berned

[beam me up scottie]

60. That's lovely but I don't really want to hear what you think about me.

that authentic man that you all preach? the crashed and berned

But I would like to discuss the facts.

Have any?

[davidpdx]

177. When you have a CV equal to Ms. Gautney's please call me,

otherwise you have no idea what you are talking about.

Ms. Gautney's CV

Education:

BA, University of Pittsburgh;
MA, St. John's University;
PhD, CUNY, 2006

Publications:

“Occupy X: Repossession by Occupation”South Atlantic Quarterly, 111(3): 597-607.

“State” Social Text 100: 242-5.

“Between Anarchism and Autonomist Marxism.” WorkingUSA: Journal of Labor and Society, 12: 467-487.

“The Imperial Coin” (with Akim Reinhardt) Peace and Change 35(1): 146-163.

Courses Taught:

Social Movements; Transnational Social Movements; Sociological Theory; Inequality in America; Political Sociology on Film; International Sociology; Introduction to Sociology


Selected Publications (Books):

Protest and Organization in the Alternative Globalization Era: NGOs, Anti-Authoritarian Movements, and Political Parties (2nd Edition). New York: Palgrave Macmillan.

Democracy, States, and the Struggle for Global Justice. New York: Routledge.

Implicating Empire: Globalization and Resistance in the 21st Century World Order. New York: Basic Books.

[beam me up scottie]

179. Irony and sexism.

Irony: seabeyond accusing Heather of "dismissing all she has accomplished and done" while doing the same to her.

Sexism: accusing Heather of being a paid shill because you don't believe that a woman could possibly support Bernie because he's the best candidate.

So she must be prostituting herself, right?

[AtomicKitten]

173. "paid a woman" ---> Grade A jackassery

I cannot believe you have the audacity to write this straightup horseshit.

First of all here's a link to the piece you are referring to: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heather-gautney/bernie-sanders-womens-issues_b_8049572.html

Here's the author identifying herself above the title of her OpEd plain as day:

Heather Gautney: Senior Researcher, 2016 Bernie Sanders Presidential Campaign, and Associate Professor of Sociology, Fordham University

She's part of Bernie's campaign and states that clearly. Hillary regularly sends her people out vis a vis OpEds (e.g. Anthony Wiener, Howard Dean, etc.) There is NO DIFFERENCE. Yet, here you are disseminating misleading propaganda trying to make it sound like he did something wrong. I won't match your nastiness by inquiring if she pays them.

At least Bernie doesn't send drones out to frag Clinton like she has done to him via for example Luis Gutierrez and now Joaquin Castro. She and her sleezy campaign are desperately trying to turn minorities against Bernie with Kanye-caliber assertions that Bernie doesn't care about black/brown people. It's fucking disgusting, but not a surprise after watching her work in 2007/08. He's got an unparalleled record of vigorously supporting and defending civil rights and liberties dating back decades. Clinton's record pales in comparison. No contest. No comparison.

[beam me up scottie]

174. BRAVO! Anyone who pulls that shit should be called out - as loudly and often as necessary.

[davidpdx]

176. And you think if that's good, look below

I find it stupefying that someone on DU would try to make an academic with a record like hers out to be a shill.

[beam me up scottie]

178. Not surprising, they want us to believe she's a paid shill because she supports a man.

What they're saying is that she couldn't possibly believe that Bernie's the best candidate, she must be prostituting herself for money.

It's sexist and staggeringly hypocritical.

[davidpdx]

175. How dare those uppity educated Sanders supporters write stuff about him?

The fucking arrogance!

It goes to show what low class some on DU have.

Ms. Gautney's CV

Education:

BA, University of Pittsburgh;
MA, St. John's University;
PhD, CUNY, 2006

Publications:

“Occupy X: Repossession by Occupation”South Atlantic Quarterly, 111(3): 597-607.

“State” Social Text 100: 242-5.

“Between Anarchism and Autonomist Marxism.” WorkingUSA: Journal of Labor and Society, 12: 467-487.

“The Imperial Coin” (with Akim Reinhardt) Peace and Change 35(1): 146-163.

Courses Taught:

Social Movements; Transnational Social Movements; Sociological Theory; Inequality in America; Political Sociology on Film; International Sociology; Introduction to Sociology


Selected Publications (Books):

Protest and Organization in the Alternative Globalization Era: NGOs, Anti-Authoritarian Movements, and Political Parties (2nd Edition). New York: Palgrave Macmillan.

Democracy, States, and the Struggle for Global Justice. New York: Routledge.

Implicating Empire: Globalization and Resistance in the 21st Century World Order. New York: Basic Books.


Some people need to think twice before trying to make someone like this out to be a shill when that's all they are themselves.

[phleshdef]

66. Wow, you mean a supporter of a candidate would actually work for his/her campaign...

...and write blogs supporting the record of said candidate? My mind is blown, that just sounds crazy!

[seabeyond]

70. right, cause i pay for an employee to say something really stupid, like a 70 yr old man being more

an advocate for women, than a woman that has spent her life advocating for women

oh oh

how about an article from a black employee saying he is more an advocate for black people than obama?

how would that sound? how stupid would that be? you THINK he might piss off like.... a whole group of people?

[phleshdef]

73. You are being really sexist.

A 70 year old man can have just as much a solid record on women's rights as a 67 year old woman.

I don't downplay Hillary Clinton's role in promoting women's rights. Both candidates have a great record on the issue... to the point that comparing them is pretty silly.

[seabeyond]

75. clinton kicks his ASS. she has been all over the world, in the dirt dealing with this shit and

advocating and fighting for women and girls LIVES. for decades.

not even a little of a comparison. just absurd.

[phleshdef]

78. I like Hillary Clinton. I will not have an iota of a problem voting for her in November 2016...

...if she is the nominee. But I'm supporting Bernie Sanders in the primary. You can look at my posts and you will not find me trashing Hillary Clinton. I don't want to and Bernie wouldn't want me to either. I like her. I respect her. But I like Bernie's record and positions more than hers. There is nothing wrong with that.

However, some advocates for all of these candidates are and will continue to try and promote their candidate over the others on various issues. You need to have a thicker skin about it and not let it upset you so much.

[seabeyond]

88. firstly, vote for who you want. i have no say. secondly, thicker skin? what does that mean?

stay quiet? dont speak out? what does it mean when you tell me to have a thicker skin? ignore it?

no. my thicker skin would be to call it out as unacceptable, here is why.... and not take it. and deal with the inevitable backlash because i do not accept a man telling me that he has my interest more than a woman that has spent her LIFE being on my side in all ways, around the world. no

lastly, sanders pays this woman. he knows what she is writing and putting out there. it is on him. it is his campaign. it is his employee.

[phleshdef]

107. I read the article... it really wasn't that bad. You are overreacting.

[Bluenorthwest]

145. You know the L in LGBT stands for Lesbian, those are women whose right to marry Hillary opposed for

many, many years. 17 years of saying that gay women should not have equal rights because of her religious views. That's just the fact. Bernie has never been opposed to anyone's rights.
Hillary has many positives, but supporting the rights of women to marry as they please simply has not been something she stood up for. She disappointed me greatly in that.

[seabeyond]

147. no. sanders just stayed quiet and refused to answer, until speaking up in 2009. are you suggesting

that because of this, a lifetime of clintons work, world wide, aiding and protecting, advocating and standing up for women and girls is null and void because she failed to stand for marriage equality 4 yrs later than sanders? sanders, who has voted on some bills for womens issues and simply stood on the house floor a time or two advocating for women?

are you really telling me this?

it is like having his AA press relations woman writing a speech for him that he is a better advocate for black rights than obama. how is that gonna go over?

[beam me up scottie]

180. Sanders didn't stay quiet, his words and votes prove he always supported lgbt rights.

On LGBT Rights, Bernie Leads and Hillary Follows

Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.

On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.

But she isn't the only option.

Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.

Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html

Bernie Sanders Was for Full Gay Equality 40 Years Ago

Today’s Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.

Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.

There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)

In a letter he published in the early 1970’s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago

Sanders: I was ahead of the curve on gay rights

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.

Sanders’ remarks come a day after Friday’s landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.

He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.

...

Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.

“That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation,” he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.

Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Friday’s Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.

“No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court,” Sanders said.

“It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states,” he said. “The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.”

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights

Bernie Sanders was decades ahead of the country on gay rights and ending the war on drugs

Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.

In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper — which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic — Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:

These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal — which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.

...

But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.

Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights

Bernie Sanders on Civil Rights

Equal pay for equal work by women. (Mar 2015)
Bush’s tracking citizens’ phone call patterns is illegal. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)
Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender. (Mar 2001)
Rated 93% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 97% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery. (Jun 2008)
ENDA: prohibit employment discrimination for gays. (Jun 2009)
Prohibit sexual-identity discrimination at schools. (Mar 2011)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)
Enforce against wage discrimination based on gender. (Jan 2013)
Enforce against anti-gay discrimination in public schools. (Jun 2013)
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm

[beam me up scottie]

74. How insulting. That woman has every right to publish her opinion about Bernie.

And now you're dismissing her as a paid shill because she's a woman?

Maybe you want to smear this woman while you're at it?:



Do go on, sea.

Tell me how "pissed" you are at Symone Sanders.

[seabeyond]

76. the INSULT is paying a woman to write and article stating he is a better advocate than clinton.

that is the insult.

[beam me up scottie]

77. So when Symone tells us that Bernie is the best candidate she's insulting AA's?

[seabeyond]

79. if sanders paid her to say he was a better advocate for blacks than obama, the fuck ya.

[beam me up scottie]

80. You do get that Hillary hired a Latina to advocate for her in the Latino community right?

And that all politicians do the same thing?


I would hate to think you're that naive.

Hillary Clinton Hires Lorella Praeli, a ‘Dreamer,’ to Connect With Latinos



While campaigning for Democrats during last fall’s midterm campaign, Hillary Rodham Clinton was interrupted during several speeches by young Latino activists, who call themselves “Dreamers,” pressing her to take a stance on an overhaul of the immigration system.

“Hillary, do you stand with our immigrant families?” shouted one activist.

What a difference six months can make.

Just weeks after Mrs. Clinton strongly advocated for more expansive efforts to end deportation of undocumented immigrants, the Clinton campaign said on Wednesday that it had hired one of the most prominent activists among the Dreamers, Lorella Praeli, to lead her Latino outreach efforts.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/20/hillary-clinton-hires-lorella-praeli-a-dreamer-to-connect-with-latinos/

Tell me what you think about Lorella, sea.

[Cha]

98. Of course, Heather Gautney would say that. I'm not saying BS isn't good on our Issues but Hill

has a longer, better record. And, she will prevail.

mahalo sea

[jfern]

103. Sanders first ran for office in 1972

Now he didn't win, but the idea that he has a shorter record is absurd. He's spent 32 1/2 years in elected office to Hillary's 8 years.

[cascadiance]

105. I suppose she must be counting when she was elected president of College Repubicans at Wellesley...

... when she was a freshman in college!

http://www.newsmax.com/FastFeatures/hillary-clinton-college-republicans/2011/06/09/id/399505/

I suppose that makes her have a longer elected office history?...

[jfern]

108. Well, Sanders lost a class President race in HS

But it wasn't a total defeat because he got the winner to adopt his issue of money for Korean war orphans.

[Cha]

114. Don't care. Hillary is the Best on my Issues.

[seabeyond]

160. and that people do not actually see the insult. just another blind spot.

how easy would it be to say, ya... he kicks ass for women, but ya.... clinton is way beyond, having advocated a lifetime.

that takes absolutely nothing away from him. he has advocated for middle/working class a lifetime. not needing to take that from him. just a fuckin reality. that is his baby.

totally fuckin in womens face insult. and still, those so blind.

[AtomicKitten]

37. Hillary has voted for war. War disproportionately hurts women.

Your OP is a completely made-up strawman.

[seabeyond]

46. sanders has voted for wars.

[jfern]

48. Only Barbara Lee voted against Afghanistan, though

[AtomicKitten]

65. He voted for intervention in a genocide.

Not preemptive war conducted by an imbecile like Hillary did.

[AtomicKitten]

95. She gave him the green light. She gave that

... knucklehead cover to say it was bipartisan. Fuck that and fuck her. There is no expiration date on that immoral, politically movitated vote. She is a neocon on foreign policy and I don't want her anywhere near the levers of government. She needs to retire from politics and do snow angels in her pile of ill-begotten cash.

[Jim Lane]

96. You're quite inconsistent on the weight to be given to the past.

In #38 you tout Clinton on the basis of what she did as First Lady. Pro tip, that was more than a decade ago.

Your argument is that joining in a march in the 1990s is so important that it deserves mention now, but voting for an immoral imperialist war in the 2000s is too long ago to be considered.

[PatrickforO]

62. I'm not going to compare Bernie with MLK or Clinton.

The closest comparison I can make is FDR. Bernie is the populist voice we need right now, because his anger matches the anger across America. His positions are ALL supported by a majority of Americans and he's going to win the primary and then the general election. His is the best message and he backs it up with 40 years of consistency.

Bernie rocks, and we're going to rock right with him.

[BlueStateLib]

68. Bernie is more like huey long

Roosevelt initially tacked right on fiscal issues. On March 10, he asked Congress to slash the salaries of federal government employees by $100 million, with an additional $400 million sliced from veterans' pensions. This stunning cut -- total annual federal expenditures then running at $4.6 billion -- came in a measure called "A Bill to Maintain the Credit of the United States Government."

[IVoteDFL]

89. I trust Bernie immensely regarding women's issues

that is enough for me. I also believe that the economic issues are women's issues in this day and age.

[Cha]

100. I trust HIllary More!

[jfern]

104. Nope, the voters say she's not honest and trustworthy by a 61-34 margin

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2274

[Cha]

110. Yeah, you just feel confident in that poll while we forge ahead.

[jfern]

112. I'm not very confident with a potential nominee

Who has that bad a trust rating, and her 51% unfavorable, 39% favorable rating isn't much better.

[seabeyond]

148. right now sanders supporters are creating another lie/flip flop/evolving drama for clinton out of

sky.

you get gore was labeled the liar, right? the really amazing thing. in the speeches they counted the lies. gore had like one or two really weak ones like the had to ake something up. bush had a number. yet we continued with the faux outrage gore was a liar.

i watch on du time and time again, the sanders supporters creating lies for clinton to own.

i am watching one develop now. string her up.....

[jfern]

169. Gore had much better favorables

[seabeyond]

170. that really has not a single damn thing to do with my post

[Cha]

111. YES WE DO! "#HillaryMen: Why the Overhyped Hillary "Liar" Poll Is a Joke"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110717378

[Cry]

146. "HillaryMen.com".

Ok. You *REALLY* lost me.

Cult of personality, indeed.

[Cha]

115. I know, K. BS can't just be really great. his supporters have to insist he's better than MLK on

Civil Rights, Hillary on Women's Issues, etc.

It's laughable and they make a mockery of their candidate.

Thank you for your OP!

[Garrett78]

121. I don't see anyone suggesting...

that Sanders trumps (pun intended) MLK on Civil Rights or even Clinton on women's rights. Of course, aside from the occasional bit of rhetoric, I also don't understand what the basis is for believing Clinton will actually *do* something to address civil rights (for women, for persons of color, etc.). I get that there's a *perception* that she's strong on those matters, and I get that perception can be as good as reality, but that perception doesn't seem to be rooted in reality.

I don't really trust any of the candidates to address civil rights sufficiently.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

130. I would laugh at elevating him over MLK on Civil Rights too.

Comparing Hillary Clinton to MLK is just as laughable, proclaiming her to women's rights as MLK was to civil rights.

Women's rights might actually be her strongest area, but she's no MLK.

[L0oniX]

151. Elevating Hillary Clinton to FDR is almost just as laughable.

[Gothmog]

133. I like Sanders and support many of his positions but I do not think that he is viable

[brooklynite]

139. I've always supported Sanders' progressive record.

I just remain unconvinced he can get elected to implement it.

[Armstead]

140. Two points...

1)Comparison of their views and goals is not "elevation" over them.

2) in part its an answer to the distortions that have been circulated against Sanders.

[bigwillq]

143. Meh.

I have little interest in what the supporters of any candidate say or think or feel or behave.
I don't think they really matter or make a difference.
Folks are more likely to vote for a candidate on his/her merit, and not because of the supporters of said candidate.

[L0oniX]

150. Advice from someone who doesn't support Bernie. ok

Nice way of calling out members without actually naming names or pointing out threads.

[Gothmog]

181. Good OP

[FloridaBlues]

182. They have him on a very high pedestal.

Once his actual voting record good and not so good comes to light we will see how he stacks up to the pedestal.
The Bernie heads are already exploding over the slightest mention of his record or statements.
What till the real opposition research starts.

[Armstead]

183. Not perfect but a hell of a lot better than "Democrats" who make me want to throw my shoe

I've been following him since the early 90's. I agree with him on about 85-90 percent of what I have seen him say and do over the years.

That's a hell of a lot better than supposed "Democrats" like Bill Clinton, who signed a law that allowed a handful of right wing Monopoly Corporations like Clear Channel buy up virtually every radio station in the US....And passing financial "deregulation" that did not require rocket science to see the negative consequences down the road.

Sanders consistently warned about a lot of the bad things that the "centrist" Democrats (including Hillary) enabled or supported, despite the obviously bad consequences.

I'll take a candidate who speaks the truth and acts ion it most of the time, over supposed Democrats who make me want to throw my show at the TV.