2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy the Millinnials are following a 73-year-old Democratic Socialist
Last edited Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:59 AM - Edit history (1)
that most people have never heard of. This is it. Listen to them. Talk with them. These guys are so much smarter than we ever were. They're tuned in to social media and can access internet sources that most of us can't even begin to access. As such, they know bullshit when they see it and they look at all the candidates running and know they're being pandered to They know that none of the Establishment candidates mean anything they say. Bernie isn't one of those candidates and these young people are smart enough to recognize honesty and sincerity when they see it. I'm not at all surprised that they're overwhelmingly supporting Bernie Sanders.
Edited to correct spelling error in title because apparently, that's the most important thing about this OP.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)They've grown up in a world where your voice and vote doesn't matter, people take them for granted, and their future is being sold away for peanuts.
And to top it off, they're being blamed for it all. That's a really bad mix for asking them to support more of the same.
reddread
(6,896 posts)the time will come.
I hope they have their sights set appropriately.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)who appeared to be in her late teens or early 20's, saw the Bernie button on my purse, tapped it with her finger, smiled at me, and said, "He's the one".
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)of this campaign has been getting to interact with these young people. As a Boomer I feel we've carried the torch for so long and to see these guys take over just does this old hippie's heart good. And goddess are they smart!
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)The young adults are crazy about Bernie and they're surprised when they learn I am as well. It makes me feel young again.
artislife
(9,497 posts)and was still wearing my Bernie button and the young cashier said "Cool, Bernie!" I gave him the bumper sticker in my purse and told him not to forget to register and vote. He was elated!
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)I know some fantastic 20s/teens. They are smart, funny, liberal, and know propaganda when they see it. That's a big reason religion is getting rejected by Internet babies.
J_J_
(1,213 posts)n/t
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)and even younger people
senz
(11,945 posts)They are the generation who will either save us (humanity, the earth, etc.) or preside over the greatest destruction humankind has ever seen. They are uniquely positioned in time to bear an unusual amount of responsibility.
About ten years ago I started noticing that they were different in all kinds of ways. What I saw was a sunny, confident openness and lack of the hostility, distrust, prejudice, and artificial group divisions that characterize the rest of us, especially in our youth (e.g., "don't trust anyone over 30" . Sometimes when I'm talking with them it feels like they're from another planet. Their adaptability and resilience are exceptional. They are going to need these qualities when the world blows up in their face as climate change and the social upheaval of greed-driven income inequality get rolling at home and abroad.
Maybe it's the influence of instant-communication electronic media across nations and cultures, or maybe it's enlightened parenting, or some other factors, I don't know.
But it's incredibly telling, and quite beautiful, that they are turning out in droves for Bernie.
artislife
(9,497 posts)If things remain the same, their future will be one where the jobs go away, the food will be poison and the planet will be in complete collapse. They should be pissed and motivate.
We can never shake the fact that all of us, didn't give a flying eff for them. We better start doing something now!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)That would take care of the financial part of a lot of our woes. First proposed by Keynes in 1940.
Disadvantage: fewer profits for thge 0.01 % - because there would be less to speculate about.
artislife
(9,497 posts)but found this interesting article that I could follow
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/30/syriza-finance-minister-big-idea-will-germany-accept-it
hmmm
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)was his never-ending appreciation of Keynes. Mostly expressed where government anti-cyclical spending was considered, but who knows he might try to introduce a GSRM (by a different name, obviously).
Without the USA introducing a GSRM, the world economy will remain in a slump for decades to come.
artislife
(9,497 posts)What was interesting about he article I linked to, I found one before that where Varoufakis wrote about it in 2011. He being Greek, made it all the more poignant.
PatrickforO
(15,059 posts)Yes. The responsibility they will bear is right up there with the WWII generation. And Taz says above they are the generation that inherited the future no one cared about.
These are profound things. I work with many millenials and they are very smart, positive and team oriented. They have can-do attitudes and definitely, as you say, know bullshit when they see it.
If they turn out as I think they will, Bernie will win. God I hope so, because we're a few years away from irreparable harm if we stay with the status quo. I mean, the earth will be fine whether it is full of life, or whether it is a smoking cinder revolving around the sun. The question is where will WE be, and what kind of lives will we have?
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)if they did, they wouldn't be so doomed to repeat it by nominating that guy.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)SalviaBlue
(3,011 posts)vanlassie
(5,891 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)that you don't know the context or the author of the quote you're referencing. Quick, go google it!
Fearless
(18,448 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)by always being the turd in the punchbowl. It's in their nature.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)PatrickforO
(15,059 posts)What is it about Bernie's message that you disagree with? Single payer healthcare? Removing the payroll cap for Social Security to expand it and keep it solvent? Making the corporations and billionaires pay their fair share of taxes? Fixing the infrastructure?
I'm just wondering, because I've not seen one of your posts that has actually spoken of issues.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)In '72 I voted for McCarthy in the primary and McGovern in the general as was majoring in History in college.
I'd do it again.
StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)You've been a very busy poster!
EOM, n/t
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)seriously, bub, what "history"? 1972? I'd counter that increasingly historically irrelevant example with '68, when we nominated the safe, boring establishment candidate and lost.
How about 2004, when we nominated the guy who was supposed to be the "strong, smart" choice and all his "strong, smart" characteristics were used against him?
2008 when we nominated the guy who, we were assured, the American people would "never vote for in the general"... until they did?
I think people HAVE learned from History. At least some of us.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'd just love to engage with another student of history. Put forth your thesis, and let's all talk
Indepatriot
(1,253 posts)If you have a minute, please explain how nominating another Third Way Wall Street "Democrat" named Clinton would not be dooming us to repeat history...
840high
(17,196 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Were you the one who was talking in the back of class?
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Most believe that the president is a kindly dictator who doesn't need to consult, compromise, and make deals with a hostile Congress. They actually believe that all a president has to do is command and "it will be done".
Once I explain it to them, they look at me with eyes of a deer caught in headlights.
Ron Green
(9,839 posts)We may yet fail it, but if we don't try we certainly fail.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Wouldn't that be more likely if we nominated someone named "Clinton" or "Bush"?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Funny face!
I don't think ericson is a people person.
bullwinkle428
(20,640 posts)boston bean
(36,420 posts)I would assume, most are not.
But who knows!
artislife
(9,497 posts)You are not able to reach them with party or die.
They are voting on their future because in the past---we didn't care about whether they would have jobs, opportunities, clean water, fuel or even a sustainable planet. They are the ones who live out the years if we don't turn it around.
As an Xer, I have opportunity to live as the planet collapses as well, so I am not overly fond of what the quote Greatest Generation unquote, the silent generation or the Boomers have not addressed and flitted away.
senz
(11,945 posts)we didn't know what was coming. Boomers rejected "the system," agitated for civil rights, protested the war, joined the peace corps, tried to live close to the earth and without social distinctions. We were young, we were amateurs, many of us were naive (guilty as charged), and we had no idea what the big boys in think tanks were planning for this country. Where were we when Reagan began the rollback of the middle class? Youth doesn't last forever; many Boomers had launched careers, started families, become distracted -- and were also a little bewildered by what was happening to our country -- the disappearance of main street, the pop-up shopping malls with identical chain stores, the erosion of local traditions, small communities, the sheer, bland, faceless enormity of the corporate takeover.
No, we weren't perfect, we weren't even wonderful. But damn, many of us really did try.
I personally think the "Greatest Generation" were relics of a former time; they thought in terms of duty, responsibility, law and order, etc. They were tough and self-controlled. They respected institutions. The silent generation, what I know of them, were interested in private, not public, life. They either did what they were told or rebelled quietly, like the Beats. I think your generation got caught amid the sea change occurring in America and sought ways to establish personal identity in what had become an impersonal world -- piercings, tattoos, styles like punks, goths, corporate types, etc. -- But I'm sorta guessing, here...
artislife
(9,497 posts)And I know they cared a lot, but the majority of the generations were not progressives. If they had been, changes would have been made and plans for the future would have taken hold.
My point is that there are more progressives in this generation, finally.
I thank the Mud rakers, Earth Day planners, the Save our Family Farms, the people who boycotted grapes to stand with Cesar Chavez and all those who marched with signs saying "I am a Man".
It is now where the progressives are starting to have the numbers where the fight won't be so hard. The battle is pretty scary, though.
senz
(11,945 posts)I don't think we have much choice.
artislife
(9,497 posts)PatrickforO
(15,059 posts)But at stake is that we need to change our minds as a species and get in better tune with each other and with our earth. I may have said this to you before, but a friend and I were talking just Friday about how we who are descended from northern Europeans came and set up a system here and across the entire world, pretty much, that elevates the individual want above the community need.
That's the mindset we've got to overturn. We need to value each other, and our communities, and the earth itself. The reason I'm supporting Bernie is that I think he's smart enough where, when he gets elected and it gets REALLY tough, he'll do the right stuff.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Thank you
Since my grandfather ran away from the reservation at the age of 16, we didn't grow up involved in the Native ways. But he married a Mexican woman (the most wonderful soul) and she had a way of loving the land and not over using or consuming.
This HGTV and Pimp my Ride type of norms will have to end. We need to look at tiny living, but not for their awesome finishes and luxuries but for their compost toilets, solar panels and the fact that you cannot have a shopping hobby.
I lived briefly with a man who did that. I couldn't handle the fact that we had a 2 gallon water tank. I may have made it longer if we had had a 10 gallon one, but even I am too prissy for the type of living that will be coming soon.
Of course by then, I will not have the choice.
PatrickforO
(15,059 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)It is one of the reasons I stepped up my over night pet sitting business. One of the first things I would do when the owners left was take a long 10 minute shower. Because that felt like luxury!!
DonCoquixote
(13,662 posts)To be fair, those folks grew up in the great depression, the crisis so severe that the rest of America had to realize that yes, there IS such a thing as common welfare, and that yes, Wall Street tycoons like Jeb's grandpa would have gladly sold it to Germany if Washington did not put a tight leash around their little necks. They wanted security and institutions because they, like few other generations in history, knew the want of such. When the started to pack their kids into Levitt town and the other suburbs made of ticky tacky they really did think they were giving their kids the world; little did they understand that those kids saw the facade behind all the plastic and ticky tacky, and that some wanted to move beyond it.
I say some, because while there were and are fighting the good fight, who do indeed deserve praise, there were many that were simply indulging yet one more appetite and following the crowd. These often morphed into the "Reagan Democrats" the folks that talk about being liberal, but want to make damned sure society knows they are the favorite children, and that the tax man better not try to take any of their toys and candy. It is one thing to say "well those GG types voted in Raygun" Yes, but they did, and still do, have the muscle to have choked out any Republican since then, especially the two bushes.
As far as X and the Millennials, well, I can only speak for X, but the fact is nop other generation since has had the simple demographic might, and the ways to indulge it. The only reason Xers got their music played was with a new medium, MTV, and that alone changed the nature of music. By the time MTV got to the Millennials, the execs had eaten off all the meat, which is why folks like Lady Gaga had to go to social media. As David Bowie, perhaps one of the more honest voices of the Boomers put it:
"these children that you spit on, they're quite aware of what they're going through." They know that we will be footing all the IOU's for the late 20th century, whether they be financial or otherwise. The Millennials will live to see the efforts being made to keep water out of NYC, and they can already hear China, Russia and India warm up as they prepare to become the new divas on the stage to amuse the oligarchs. X and the Millennials KNOW that our old age will not be like Grandpa riding around on a Golf Cart; hell, we will be lucky if we manage to protect social security from being taken.
I know many Boomers did and still do fight the good fight, and I offer you praise. It must sadden you to see so many of your fellows, who still pat themselves on the back for chanting "AUM" a few times back in the 60's , become outright defenders of the Status Quo. How could they forget what you and they saw together;the fact that for a while, there was a window to change society, what Dr. Hunter S. Thompson described as a great wave that left a watermark when it receded? The fact is, people like you kept their eyes open, and did not look at the shiny toys Wall Street offered, and those of us do thank you for that. However, OUR waves will not be receding anytime soon, the problem is that our watermark will be stained with blood, much like the ones that are still all over New Orleans.
hueymahl
(2,636 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)salib
(2,116 posts)Our parents did better for us than we have for ours.
Yes, we have fought like hell. We have won some amazing battles.
Yet, here our children are facing potential tragedy from so many directions.
Maybe it was inevitable. Maybe there was nothing we could do.
Whatever. We failed.
So, now let's work like hell to help them clean it up. It is the least and best we can do.
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)But this millennial is here, since 10/2003, and well...
<<<<<<<<<
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)We need more young people coming here. The only thing I can add is to echo what others are saying in this thread, about the problems that our generations have left for yours. Some of us did try, at least, to change the world or at least warn of the disasters that we were creating: militarism, environmental destruction, corporatization, etc.
Keep fighting the Good Fight! We Old Farts will be with you!
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)It looks like Bernie is reaching through the generations. Go Bernie!
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)PatrickforO
(15,059 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's one of the reasons I like it here. It's one of the only places left where a gray-haired Gen X duffer like myself can still be told to "get off my lawn".
J_J_
(1,213 posts)I have learned so much from the collective wisdom here.
The millenials are on reddit, and I learn a lot from them too.
They are smart,open minded,caring about the world around them,compassionate,not judgemental...and they don't take shit from anybody.
If you get something wrong, they will let you know it with facts and intelligent responses.
This has elevated the intelligence of everyone and improved conversations tremendously.
Pretty sure that is why they are following Bernie- huge group effort to get Bernie elected
http://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident
IVoteDFL
(417 posts)Proud Bernie supporter, too.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)He is doing the same thing a little known candidate did back in 2008.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)that is only one reason. The main reason seems to be authenticity. Call it the Holden Caulfield syndrome.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)white middle class demographic. he would be the cool professor that sits in a group for chat.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)and they're mobilized via social media. I watched a 17-year-old yesterday take shots of our posters/fliers, post them on I don't know how many social media sites and almost immediately she started reporting how many "likes" or "shares" or "twits" or whatever they were. I was like, "Dayum!"
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)And we will not be marginalized by those telling us it can't happen.
Funny how Hillary is now trying to jump on board some of these issues, isn't it?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)sanders issues. they are not. when you only hear or look for the negative, then your perspective is skewed. both these have been democratic issues, not sander issues.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Most of us who have been paying attention know that is was Bernie that was out front on these issues.
Nice ploy by throwing O'Malley in the mix too though. Are you hoping his supporters will jump on the Hillary bandwagon sometime soon?
By the way, I have no problem with Hillary or anyone else supporting the same causes that Bernie brings to light. That is his intention. Bring the issues to light and force support. That is how he will win Congress over too.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)obama started the minimum wage increase, free jr college and omalley and clinton have their own plans.
start with insults, i stop reading and do not give your words consideration
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)BTW, Bernie isn't talking free junior college. He is talking free college. big difference.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)We used to have free colleges in California so it has been done before and it can be again. It is done in other countries too. An educated public can only be good for the country.
salib
(2,116 posts)In the 80s. California was not the only one.
Actually, nearly all state schools were nearly free. Just had to find a way to make room and board, if you did not have a scholarship, which is what that money went to.
So, I call BS on the claim that it cannot be done.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)starting college next year. then the first one onto further education for three years. i certainly get what is going on with all this and any way to bring it to a more reasonable cost, i am game.
salib
(2,116 posts)There is little difference in the scheme of things.
I think that is all people are saying from the Bernie side. It is possible and pragmatic to create a free educational system.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)So sick of the defeatist attitude on here. But then some of it is just an excuse to use to support centrist politicians.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)They see Bernie, properly, as a serious threat to the status quo that HRH pledges allegiance to each day: plutocratic economics, the MIC's War Forever plans, and unwillingness to take real action on the threat of climate change.
No More Turd Way. Period.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)profits at the expense of the 99%'s water supply.
I take it you are against free college and $15 min wage?
"It doesn't take much." Bingo. Just an honest politician.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Is your tired schtick some kind of surrealist performance art, like Andy Kaufman's was?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hifi, we are runnin' into each other all over, given me little taps as was pass
each and every time.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i agree with 15 an hour.
i agree more on the scale of junior college free along with clinton obama and omalley though not positive the position omalley holds.
i totally think interest rates on loans should not be profit level. incredibly low
but i resent the hell the way you talk to me. so, since you feel you must be so disrespectful in every post, do not expect me to give you the fuckin curtesy of an answer, here on out.
omg... why do you want to insult and alienate millenials? You think they're stupid and greedy?
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)i am looking at 7 yr college for one kid, he is half way thru. i have another walking into college next year. we know the reality
why do you think it is an insult stating a fact. you guys too often assign shit that is just not there because of your own messed up perceptions.
EEO
(1,620 posts)Bernie is the ONLY candidate who has a chance of fixing the rigged economic system.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)LongTomH
(8,636 posts)Same as I told a previous Millenial; keep fighting the good fight!
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)to be the establishment Dems and Republicans in Congress in order to help push Sanders' ambitious agenda through. Free college! $15 dollar minimum wage! Yeah. Not gonna happen without Congress. The reality is, no laws will pass to rein in rich people rights and nothing will be done to "fix the rigged economic system" if President Sanders doesn't have a Congress that will work with him. Those be the political realities.
At this point I truly feel sorry for Bernie Sanders. He's going to have to give his supporters a painful wake-up call should he, by some fluke, win the nom and the general election and head for the White House. Then he's going to have to explain to them that we have a government of three co-equal branches and that he's not a dictator, and then he'll have to tack to the center in order to get anything done. Cue the anger born out of disillusion.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)And I've been saying this on this and every other message board I frequent long before that OP you've provided a link to. Check my posting history if you don't believe me.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)It is such a wonderful campaign tactic to tell the people you need that they are utter morons.
I already knew he couldn't do it alone, back when he started. I'm not expecting miracles. I'm expecting my party to start giving a shit about me and my vote.
The party has spent my entire adult life saying "GenX? Yeah, we bargained away the stuff to help you. But Republicans are worse!!!!".
To you, this means I'm a moron. And that is precisely why you do not understand.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)So you're the one insinuating that I'm clueless or slow. And thus, in light of that, when you say "it's wonderful to call someone a dumbass" or "moron", you were referring to yourself as the agitator, not me, right? Because I've never even alluded to that anywhere in my post. But you have. Let's at least get that straight.
Among the Millennials and Bernie Sanders supporters, you're clearly in the minority. Early on, I supported him but then I got a reality check when I realized that the only way he can get any of his ambitious (and fair) agenda through is if we give him a Congress that'll work with him.
Then I realized, that if the American people couldn't give President Obama a Congress he could work with, what chance would Bernie Sanders have to get the Congress he needs in order to make his policies become reality? Since then, I've watched as he was skipped when it came to congressional and gubernatorial Dem endorsements. The majority are endorsing Hillary Clinton - even Vermont Governor, Peter Shimlin. That's when I knew Sanders would be made a lame-duck president, and we will most certainly lose the White House to Republicans in 2020 when U.S. M$M begin their campaign of vilifying, ad infinitum, the lack of accomplishments of a President Sanders.
My desire is to see President Obama's work continue and expand. I'm hoping Joe Biden will jump into the race because I trust that he will do just that.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)You used the same reasoning -- "political realities" - to explain away why Clinton HAD to vote for a war that killed a million innocent people BECAUSE OTHERWISE SHE MIGHT LOOK BAD..
Your "political realities" are morally bankrupt and ethically vile.
Z_California
(650 posts)The internet will finally topple corporate media.
senz
(11,945 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He will appoint responsibly to the FCC.
Thanks for mentioning this. Bernie is unlikely to sell the appointments to the FCC for campaign contributions.
Some of the other candidates ??????? Not so sure about that.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)rosesaylavee
(12,126 posts)so are probably not getting polled.
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)If you are talking about Millennials, those that became adults around the year 2000, they grew up with the internet and cell phones in hand. They know how to operate with these devices, but are often helpless without them. Their school textbooks were written by Texas creationists and revisionists. They are no smarter or dumber than any other generation.
Like all young adults throughout time, they vote less and are less aware of politics than the generations before them. In time, they will see their children through the same eyes as we see them. Wishing and hoping that they have the same ideals that one holds for themselves is an exercise in futility.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)marriage equality and pot legalization.
If you think those issues would move as much as they have if those people weren't showing up to vote, you're wrong.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:34 AM - Edit history (1)
Who knew?
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Sad little world...
I don't think that Millennials "were went" to school in Texas. Not even the "Millinnials", what ever they are
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)and there aren't any textbooks produced in, say, Massachusetts?
http://www.hmhco.com/
Whatever...
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Attack the made-up-in-your-own-head non item... I'm so not impressed.
At least when you went back and corrected your typo in your made up, whatever, you didn't get wrong again like in the OP....
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Don't blame me for your fantasies.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)Like I said, don't blame me for your fantasies.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)DrBulldog
(841 posts). . . Bernie Sanders has stood up and WALKED THE WALK straight as an arrow on the side of history his ENTIRE life and has accumulated and developed many years of sharp judgment and deep wisdom so uncommon to today's politicians. He is one of a kind. He is one in a million, maybe a billion. He may also be our nation's very last chance to save it from mud-sliding into permanent oligarchy and economic oppression.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)whathehell
(29,625 posts)I remember the press questioning Abbie Hoffman regarding that unexpected
phenomenon in terms of his famous "Don't trust anyone over 30" dictum.
He responded: "Now you can't trust anyone UNDER thirty, they're all for Reagan"!
LiberalArkie
(16,222 posts)He hooked a lot of people. But now I don't think that works as well because the youth know what that money used to go to. Now they just see it going to the banks, the military and not for the schools, or pubic needs. They are not buying the old mantra of having no taxes means a better life. They are way to smart to fall for that.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)The voted for Obama in 2008 but stayed home in 2012 because they saw the second Obama took office he took a sharp right-wing turn. You can't fool these guys and they don't have the Blind Partisan disease their predecessors have/had.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)That's a big piece that is missing from most people's calculus on "electable". They keep ignoring "the kids" because they have always ignored "the kids". So "the kids" don't turn out.
The small size of GenX meant they could be ignored. And they were. The large size of Millenials (bigger than Boomers) means ignoring them is really dumb politics.
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)Young people are on board for Sanders for the most part, although there are plenty of Hillary supporters too. But Bernie just flat out gets it on things like free college and LGBTQ rights, which is helping drive his support.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)When Bernie says the country must have a best educated work force in the world he means it because he believes it. And I do too, even though I have a rusty baby boomer brain.
We cannot afford to let all this talent sit on the side lines. The only ones that would advocate such a thing are those that could care less about the country, the same ones that want to ship the jobs overseas.
RKP5637
(67,112 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)hill2016
(1,772 posts)isn't offering free college and student loan forgiveness the epitome of "pandering"?
cali
(114,904 posts)I've heard him talk about tuition free public colleges for years at town hall potlucks and on VPR.
By the way, I think your hit and run ops really stink. Post something incendiary and then run away.
hill2016
(1,772 posts)
That is essentially what three Democratic presidential candidates are promising voters by jumping on the same populist bandwagon: lets make college free. First, Bernie Sanders said that he would find $70 billion annuallyby taxing Wall Streetto allow any kid to attend a state college for free. Then Hillary Clinton announced a $350 billion ten-year program to allow kids to enable students to avoid crippling debts. And finally Martin OMalley chimed in, Me too! A pox on all of them. They are misleading voters and are being either disingenuous, cynical, or both.
Most parents and students would love it if someone else or someone elses taxes paid for juniors college. And whether a higher education entitlement should make it to the top of our priority list is a valid topic for debate. But no candidate should debase this important discussion by deceiving the voters especially so early in the campaign.
cali
(114,904 posts)As for deceptive, that's your hilly over and over again; on the tpp and keystone, just for starters.
And I was referring to at least 2 ops you posted where you ran away, not responding once.
he doesn't have a plan to pay for it.
Show me exactly how much it costs and who's paying for it.
His numbers on financial transaction tax don't come anywhere near enough.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)she voted for it? Why is there ALWAYS multi-billions for worthless shit like the Iraq decimation but never anything for something that would actually help people, like funding education?
cali
(114,904 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Bernie doesn't have a plan to pay for it? http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/05/19/bernie_sanders_free_college_plan_make_wall_street_pay_for_higher_education.html
Now let's take a look at when Bernie's campaign called out Hillary on her plan
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-campaign-calls-out-hillarys-college-plan-disappointment-not-truly-free
"The difference between the two plans seems to be the difference between Sanders' democratic socialist worldview and Clinton's neoliberal one. For Sanders, college is a right, just like K-12 education, or police and fire services. You will get it, fully subsidized, because it is an essential. For the Clinton campaign, college is still a privilege, something you have to pay for and work for, even while you are a student. It's a consumer good. The competing plans are a microcosm of the two candidates' approach to policy."
And therein lies the difference between you and your candidate and ours.
We don't need the same old same old, we need new ideas by people who don't have more baggage than Samsonite can produce, not wishy wash answers based in which way the wind is blowing.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)One that stings for a good, long while.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Now their taxes pay for endless war and bankster bailouts.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)hill2016
(1,772 posts)are quite incomplete without the "how much it costs and who's paying for it" part.
Until Bernie gives a full accounting of the cost part, these proposals are just hopes and wishes. In my line of work, we work off hard numbers not hopes and wishes.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)It's not a "fine details" outline, because implementation of that will depend on the situation of 2017 or beyond.
What's your line of work? And what sort of income do you get out of it?
pinebox
(5,761 posts)So much so, that while you were watching Hillary, Bernie introduced legislation to make his plan a reality http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/5/19/bernie-sanders-unveils-plan-for-tuition-free-public-colleges.html
I think how it's paid for is pretty well known and covered at this point.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Crickets? I hear nothing but crickets.
With posts like yours, hil2016, it is no wonder why we are all getting fed up with the Hillary group.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That doesn't surprise me a bit, women know who walks the walk!
taught_me_patience
(5,477 posts)He's like the guy running for class president that promises 2 hour recess and pizza every day. Look at all the shit you get for free and you don't even have to pay for it! Plays well, but it it actually come to pulling the trigger, I think most will see through the bullshit.
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)had for decades.
The U.S. evolving into a modern western liberal democracy - what a terrible thought.
hill2016
(1,772 posts)but I want to know what it costs and who's paying for it first
Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts)We're working our asses off and getting spit for our efforts! Comes every 60yr. cycle and now it has come to the point where just a Dickens-Like survival alone to maintain a meager source of living has collapsed. The upper echelon has far eclipsed everyone with their abhorrent greed and sociopathy. Are You seriously worried about how we *Will* wrest their crooked take from all the years of back door dealing back into the rest of society?
I hope they will remember all about your empathy toward them when the shit starts to really hit them in the face.
But, good luck with that.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Multiple posters have provided an answer to you, with links, yet you keep posting this same thing.
There is no point to reading any of your future posts.
/bye.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)the three phrases with which they have been programmed.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Marty McGraw
(1,024 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Big freaking smile on my face...
tritsofme
(18,143 posts)Or is this just what you happen to think?
Turbineguy
(38,219 posts)the World was my oyster.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)But few people 'round here have much of a sense of humor.
K&nR!!!!!
pinstikfartherin
(500 posts)Yes, there are some who hear free college and jump on his bandwagon. But from so many I've talked to amongst my age group? We understand it takes more than a Presidential election to change this country. We're already talking about who to support locally and how to keep the enthusiasm up past the general election.
I don't support Bernie because I want something for free. I know he can't do everything he says he wants to by himself, and he will tell you that, too. Free shit isn't on my damn agenda. Taking my government back from the influence of corporate interests and the insanely weathly is my number one goal. Fuck free college. Fuck a $15 wage. Fuck single payer. None of it will ever happen and be allowed to work in the long run if we keep letting the corporations run our government. We must take our government back and make it work for the people before we even think of making good change.
I'm self employed. I pay my taxes quarterly like a good little American, so I am highly aware of my tax situation. My effective tax rate last year was 10% yet these corporations pay an effective rate of nothing? Fuck them. I'm tired of corporate welfare. I will not vote for someone who is in their pocket.
I don't give a damn how lofty Bernie's proposals are. I don't give a damn if he doesn't get free college or free anything passed. Every naysayer is throwing out the free shit line. I'm not supporting him for that. I am supporting Bernie Sanders because he has supported the average American his entire career and been consistent. I am supporting Bernie Sanders because he isn't paid for by the wealthy and influential. I am voting Bernie Sanders because he is our only chance to take this country back from the wealthy. Because he cares. Because I know what he believes and he isn't afraid to stand against the status quo. Because he supports our veterans. Because he fights for the common good. Because I agree with most, though not all, of his stances.
Fuck your free shit and don't think you speak for me. I'm informed and I'm feeling the BERN because I'm fucking angry. I want a future for my kids, and this clown car we have now isn't going to ensure that. They only care about themselves just like too many people in this country. No, I want a better future for my family and yours, whether you're a racist, gun-stroking red neck here in my neck of the woods or a deep blue lefty blinded by establishment politics. I want to believe in America again. Right now all I see is the United States of I-Bought-You.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)This deserves to be an OP!
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)You need to make this an OP. Seriously, it's your time and you guys need to be heard.
For my fellow Old Farts. Spend an hour with these guys. They will absolutely energize you!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 31, 2015, 08:19 AM - Edit history (1)
I agree with sibelian and La Taz Hot, you should post this as an op!
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)GREAT post!
mountain grammy
(27,144 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)Excellent retort to the naysayers!
gordianot
(15,460 posts)I was told much the same by some College students recently. I listened, my only response you are correct.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)ics) will be voting for Bernie in the primaries and whichever democrat emerges in the general.
To be honest I'm even to the left of Bernie and I think even if he gets elected it will be tough to get much through congress we absolutely must flip the supreme court. They've been crapping on millennial's faces our entire lives and it's time for that to change.
ever4lasting
(10 posts)I will vote for Sanders before Clinton. She will pick her rich cronies over the rest of us. We need someone to be in our corner for once. the rich are the ones that coined the phrase Socialism. I listen to Milton Friedman and he stated when the rich have to share the economy with the rest of us it is socialism , but when they take a large portion of the economy for them it is called business. The rich already take over a billion annually of tax payers money. That money should go to the tax payers and America. It is OK to spend our tax dollars for us. It is high time that the Rich start standing on their own two feet and stop living off of the tax payer.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)And welcome to DU.
mountain grammy
(27,144 posts)welcome to DU!
gordianot
(15,460 posts)Today Debs would have been able to find a home in the Sanders campaign Debs founded the Socialist Party. Still a hero of the labor movement the right wing corporate interests honed their skills discrediting Debs and what should have been populist agenda. The same old arguments will be trotted out and applied to Sanders left over from generations conditioned by the red scare. When viewed in the context of history the International Russian Communist menace has been replaced by a real, equal, or greater menace in the form of Authoritarian Corporate Oligarchs hell bent on establishing an "International" world economy. The Millennials are awake to the fact they are being thrown crumbs. In the end it was not International Communism that brought about wealth distribution but the Capitalist Oligarchs who are redistributing Middle Class comfort while the ultra wealthy keep their wealth. The Oligarchs tried to run one of their own creations for President in 2012 unfortunately for them he managed to insult those he needed for votes. This time a protected failed Oligarch Donald Trump has been trotted out as a spokesman for 100 years of voter conditioning to vote against your own best self interest. Trump is pure Fascism.
After all Oligarchs you did put tremendous social media power in the hands of children for quick profit, how short sighted of you because you did not foresee the consequences. Will the millennials get it and reject 100 years of right wing political bullshit? Will Millennials fall in line and allow themselves to become cannon fodder once again? Will they realize the real conflict is the system is being gamed and that the real threat is catastrophic man made climate change for quick profit? Is Bernie Sanders ready to counter the coming storm? By late 2016 we will know.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)He turns 74 next week, just for the record.
mainer
(12,138 posts)I know millennials from both sides of the political spectrum.
Those who are Republicans all seem to be Rand Paul supporters, and they tell me that if Trump or Cruz wins the nomination, they'll sit out this election and not vote at all. Jeb Bush bores them. They don't know any of the others.
Those who are Democrats all support Sanders. They're just not excited about Hillary.