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Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:08 PM Aug 2015

Why the Millinnials are following a 73-year-old Democratic Socialist

Last edited Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:59 AM - Edit history (1)

that most people have never heard of. This is it. Listen to them. Talk with them. These guys are so much smarter than we ever were. They're tuned in to social media and can access internet sources that most of us can't even begin to access. As such, they know bullshit when they see it and they look at all the candidates running and know they're being pandered to They know that none of the Establishment candidates mean anything they say. Bernie isn't one of those candidates and these young people are smart enough to recognize honesty and sincerity when they see it. I'm not at all surprised that they're overwhelmingly supporting Bernie Sanders.

Edited to correct spelling error in title because apparently, that's the most important thing about this OP.

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Why the Millinnials are following a 73-year-old Democratic Socialist (Original Post) Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 OP
The mellinnials probably know that they are not the priority of the status quo Hydra Aug 2015 #1
Occupy is going to have to bring it reddread Aug 2015 #2
Yesterday a young woman working in a restaurant, Zorra Aug 2015 #3
One of the complete surprised and delights Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #4
I've seen the same thing here in SW Virginia Oilwellian Aug 2015 #156
I had just come from the July 29th meet ups artislife Aug 2015 #10
I love this Millennial generation and the one following that generation. Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #5
+100000 J_J_ Aug 2015 #86
That's true Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2015 #6
I believe you're right, Le Taz Hot. Millennials are going to be key to everything. senz Aug 2015 #7
They got left with the future no other generation cared about artislife Aug 2015 #13
Care to introduce a Global Surplus Recycling Mechanism? Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #117
Didn't know what it was artislife Aug 2015 #118
The one thing about Mr. Sanders that I liked before the campaign started Betty Karlson Aug 2015 #119
We need to change the world economy for sure. artislife Aug 2015 #121
'They are uniquely positioned in time to bear an unusual amount of responsibility.' PatrickforO Aug 2015 #46
Wow! Great post! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #60
its because they don't know history ericson00 Aug 2015 #8
Well, aren't you just a little ray of sunshine. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #9
Bernie is the new FDR. n/t retrowire Aug 2015 #19
Now he's some history I hope we are doomed to repeat. SalviaBlue Aug 2015 #41
K&R! RKP5637 Aug 2015 #73
+1,000,000 vanlassie Aug 2015 #122
lol. awful broad brush you're wielding. and why do I suspect cali Aug 2015 #21
I don't know whether to laugh or cry Fearless Aug 2015 #22
Me too. Enthusiast Aug 2015 #62
Some live their lives hifiguy Aug 2015 #169
Oh my ... nt Live and Learn Aug 2015 #30
Why do I think you're not really for Hillary, maybe not even a Dem? PatrickforO Aug 2015 #49
I'm 71, know history, and will vote for Bernie. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #66
991 posts since July 20, '15? StandingInLeftField Aug 2015 #74
Yes, we never should have nominated Franklin Pierce. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #80
This one knows lots of history. Try me, ericson00 Scootaloo Aug 2015 #89
Could your real name be Eeyore? Indepatriot Aug 2015 #107
I know history. Go Bernie. 840high Aug 2015 #109
You showed a little bit of your own history... MrMickeysMom Aug 2015 #110
And they don't understand how our government actually works. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #112
Bernie's candidacy is a test for America. Ron Green Aug 2015 #144
Can't and won't argue with that. eom BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #153
How would nominating Bernie be repeating history? Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #124
Well, I'm sure insulting them will convince them to vote for your candidate. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #134
LMAO! beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #135
Kind of like our history of never electing a person of color as President? bullwinkle428 Aug 2015 #146
I wonder how many millenial Bernie supporters are on this site? boston bean Aug 2015 #11
You are correct artislife Aug 2015 #14
The Boomers (many of us) tried like hell, but senz Aug 2015 #28
There have been progressives in every generation artislife Aug 2015 #32
Yes, scariest battle there is...but senz Aug 2015 #38
It is do or die for sure. nt artislife Aug 2015 #44
Yes artislife, it will get very rough. PatrickforO Aug 2015 #57
Yes, you responded to my OP about the Ojibwas artislife Aug 2015 #61
Geez. A 2-gallon water tank? God forbid it should come to that! PatrickforO Aug 2015 #64
I never felt clean artislife Aug 2015 #69
The Greatest generation DonCoquixote Aug 2015 #133
Really great post. Thanks. hueymahl Aug 2015 #149
This Boomer thinks that is one helluva fine post. hifiguy Aug 2015 #171
Yep. We have failed our children. salib Aug 2015 #100
Can't speak for any of my peers... DRoseDARs Aug 2015 #29
Believe me, you're appreciated! LongTomH Aug 2015 #65
Probably not many and yet Bernie support is through the roof even here. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #33
Right here. DemocraticWing Aug 2015 #47
Not many millenials here, I expect. Most of us are baby boomers probably n/t PatrickforO Aug 2015 #51
DU skews fairly old, in my experience, compared to other parts of the internet. Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #78
noticed that too, but that is why I love it J_J_ Aug 2015 #84
I am a millennial IVoteDFL Aug 2015 #103
He can win! Puzzledtraveller Aug 2015 #12
free college and 15 an hour does it for them. doesnt take much. nt seabeyond Aug 2015 #15
from what I've heard in real life, and read online cali Aug 2015 #17
yes. they do like his tone. for sure. from day one i said he would get the university, seabeyond Aug 2015 #26
Yeah, but they outnumber us Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #18
yes. again. day one, i said social network would work well for sanders. i agree. nt seabeyond Aug 2015 #27
LOL That is precisely the point. None of us are asking for much just fairness in the system. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #37
she and omalley have been forefront on these issues, you are just uninformed thinking they are seabeyond Aug 2015 #40
I think you are seeing things through Hillary colored glasses. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #48
ya, see. i stopped reading at the insult. i support omalley firstly. secondly get your facts seabeyond Aug 2015 #53
If I did that, I would nevr get to read your posts. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #54
yes. and most of us are pragmatic enough to call the bs on that. seabeyond Aug 2015 #59
Sounds more like defeatism than pragmatism. Live and Learn Aug 2015 #63
I went to The Universuty of Texas for what was basically free salib Aug 2015 #104
i grew up in calif. college was certainly affordable. i am putting one thru college now and one seabeyond Aug 2015 #105
If we can get it down to "reasonable cost" we can make it basically free. salib Aug 2015 #170
+1 cui bono Aug 2015 #129
The status quo serves many quite well. hifiguy Aug 2015 #172
Not like the other side that drools at the prospects that fracking will increase oil company rhett o rick Aug 2015 #94
i am really fuckin tired that people cannot have a fuckin conversation without fuckin insults.... seabeyond Aug 2015 #97
Well, YOU certainly expressed yourself there with restraint and eloquence. hifiguy Aug 2015 #173
i know. i hear ya. i am all grace...... yup seabeyond Aug 2015 #175
"I take it you are against free college and $15 min wage? " no, i do not buy into free college. yes seabeyond Aug 2015 #98
LOL cui bono Aug 2015 #128
no. i have them all around me. i think they are desperate, smart, and kick most of our ass. seabeyond Aug 2015 #143
I am a Millenial, and my friends and family Millenials are tired of being fucked by rich people. EEO Aug 2015 #16
+1 nt Live and Learn Aug 2015 #36
Believe me, you're appreciated! LongTomH Aug 2015 #67
+++ 1,000,000 +++ n/t RKP5637 Aug 2015 #75
With what Congress? I look forward to Millenials recruiting House Reps and Senators BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #113
Well, if you actually paid attention, Sanders is already saying he can't do it alone. jeff47 Aug 2015 #151
No. *You* finally are. Understanding political realities is why I won't support Bernie Sanders. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #152
Ah, isn't it wonderful to call someone a dumbass? jeff47 Aug 2015 #159
What the heck?? Who's calling whom a dumbass? Your words: "Well, if you actually paid attention..." BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #167
More "political realities" LondonReign2 Aug 2015 #181
The jig is almost up Z_California Aug 2015 #20
Which is why we need to protect net neutrality and stop any assault on open, interactive media. senz Aug 2015 #31
^^This nt artislife Aug 2015 #35
+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #68
Another reason to vote for Bernie. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #42
+100%! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #70
And they don't use landlines rosesaylavee Aug 2015 #23
What is a Mellinnial? Pretty sure you aren't referring to Melanin. Thor_MN Aug 2015 #24
Actually, you can thank Millennials for the dramatic sea change in public opinion on things like Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #79
so you're saying all Millennials were sent to school in Texas? magical thyme Aug 2015 #137
Hmm... You think textbooks can't be shipped across the country? Thor_MN Aug 2015 #141
attack the typo...I'm so impressed. So you think all schools buy their textbooks from Texas magical thyme Aug 2015 #145
Where did I say all textbooks come from Texas? Thor_MN Aug 2015 #182
um, your words: Their school textbooks were written by Texas creationists and revisionists. magical thyme Aug 2015 #183
Again where do you see all in that? Thor_MN Aug 2015 #184
it's implied. but you knew that. nt magical thyme Aug 2015 #185
No, you inferred it, but you knew that, Thor_MN Aug 2015 #186
Thanks. Amazed it took so many posts. Dawgs Aug 2015 #142
Maybe the young are starting to realize that . . . DrBulldog Aug 2015 #25
+ 1000! senz Aug 2015 #34
K&R. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #39
Wow..A welcome change from 30+ years ago when 20 somethings started supporting Ronald Reagan whathehell Aug 2015 #43
Ronnie got the young vote by talking about the 30% being taken out of the pay check. LiberalArkie Aug 2015 #77
But will they get out and vote? We need them to vote!! Elmer S. E. Dump Aug 2015 #45
I think they will. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #52
We have mass numbers of citizen volunteers working on it. Join us! Zorra Aug 2015 #82
For Sanders, yes. It will be difficult for Clinton to get them out. jeff47 Aug 2015 #157
We want Bernie. DemocraticWing Aug 2015 #50
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Aug 2015 #55
. . . Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #56
Well said, Le Taz Hot! Enthusiast Aug 2015 #58
I'm a Millennial, but I seemed to age overnight! RKP5637 Aug 2015 #71
The saying, "they do not suffer fools gladly" often paraphrased from Corinthians comes to mind. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #72
Time for me to make another one of my donations to Bernie! n/t RKP5637 Aug 2015 #76
who says Sanders isn't pandering? hill2016 Aug 2015 #81
no. fail. bzzzt. he's been proposing these things for decades cali Aug 2015 #83
I'm coming back aren't I? hill2016 Aug 2015 #85
lol. he's been proposing this for decades and he has a plan to pay for it cali Aug 2015 #87
nope hill2016 Aug 2015 #101
How much did the Iraq invasion and slaughter cost? Was Hillary concerned about its cost Arugula Latte Aug 2015 #123
provide links. I certainly wouldn't dream of taking your word for it. cali Aug 2015 #140
Sanders EDU plan vs Hillary pinebox Aug 2015 #160
Whoa! That should leave a mark. hifiguy Aug 2015 #179
Guess what? Their taxes (and other peoples' taxes) USED TO pay for college eridani Aug 2015 #130
Do you oppose these proposals? If so, please articulate why. n/t Scootaloo Aug 2015 #90
these proposals hill2016 Aug 2015 #102
Except he's already outlined how he plans to pay for it. You even quoted it, in brief Scootaloo Aug 2015 #158
Sanders miles ahead pinebox Aug 2015 #162
Do you oppose these proposals? If so, please articulate why. n/t Scootaloo Aug 2015 #91
Do you oppose these proposals? If so, please articulate why. RobertEarl Aug 2015 #92
Not just millennials. Fast growing Sanders constituency group on facebook is WOMEN Catherina Aug 2015 #88
Of course it is! beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #95
What's not to love? taught_me_patience Aug 2015 #93
He is ike the guy running for class president who wants what other modern high schools have Douglas Carpenter Aug 2015 #96
I like free pizza too hill2016 Aug 2015 #99
Free? Marty McGraw Aug 2015 #114
"HE WANTS YOUR MONEY!" - CALLED IT. sibelian Aug 2015 #131
You are being deliberately ignorant. Maedhros Aug 2015 #177
The parrot-bots can't do anything but squawk hifiguy Aug 2015 #180
A Man Of The People - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious Aug 2015 #106
Are "Mellinials" children of Mel Gibson? jberryhill Aug 2015 #108
Ha! Marty McGraw Aug 2015 #115
Smile... MrMickeysMom Aug 2015 #111
Is there actually any data out there showing Sanders overperforms among millenials? tritsofme Aug 2015 #116
When I was 24 Turbineguy Aug 2015 #120
I had over a dozen really good jokes on this subject postatomic Aug 2015 #125
Speaking as a millennial, to all the negative responses.. pinstikfartherin Aug 2015 #126
.... sibelian Aug 2015 #132
Oh yeah!!! Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #136
***THIS***THIS***THIS*** beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #138
I want to believe in America again too! RiverLover Aug 2015 #147
Good post. mountain grammy Aug 2015 #154
Oh man, your post gave me goosebumps Oilwellian Aug 2015 #161
YES. gordianot Aug 2015 #164
Wow. That was wonderful! hifiguy Aug 2015 #174
I agree deserves on Op AuntPatsy Aug 2015 #176
Well said! [n/t] Maedhros Aug 2015 #178
Kick and R. Great post. BeanMusical Aug 2015 #127
This older millennial (sometimes a millennial, sometimes an xer according to people who do demograph MillennialDem Aug 2015 #139
Rich coined the word socialism ever4lasting Aug 2015 #148
Excellent points. Le Taz Hot Aug 2015 #150
Nice post.. mountain grammy Aug 2015 #155
We have come a long way since Socialist Eugene Debs at the turn of the twentieth century. gordianot Aug 2015 #163
74 frazzled Aug 2015 #165
Either Bernie Sanders or ... Rand Paul. Those are the millennials I know mainer Aug 2015 #166
On what do you base "THE" Millennials following a 73-year-old Democratic Socialist? George II Aug 2015 #168

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
1. The mellinnials probably know that they are not the priority of the status quo
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:19 PM
Aug 2015

They've grown up in a world where your voice and vote doesn't matter, people take them for granted, and their future is being sold away for peanuts.

And to top it off, they're being blamed for it all. That's a really bad mix for asking them to support more of the same.

 

reddread

(6,896 posts)
2. Occupy is going to have to bring it
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:22 PM
Aug 2015

the time will come.
I hope they have their sights set appropriately.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
3. Yesterday a young woman working in a restaurant,
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:28 PM
Aug 2015

who appeared to be in her late teens or early 20's, saw the Bernie button on my purse, tapped it with her finger, smiled at me, and said, "He's the one".

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
4. One of the complete surprised and delights
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:31 PM
Aug 2015

of this campaign has been getting to interact with these young people. As a Boomer I feel we've carried the torch for so long and to see these guys take over just does this old hippie's heart good. And goddess are they smart!

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
156. I've seen the same thing here in SW Virginia
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:57 AM
Aug 2015

The young adults are crazy about Bernie and they're surprised when they learn I am as well. It makes me feel young again.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
10. I had just come from the July 29th meet ups
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:56 PM
Aug 2015

and was still wearing my Bernie button and the young cashier said "Cool, Bernie!" I gave him the bumper sticker in my purse and told him not to forget to register and vote. He was elated!

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
5. I love this Millennial generation and the one following that generation.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:39 PM
Aug 2015

I know some fantastic 20s/teens. They are smart, funny, liberal, and know propaganda when they see it. That's a big reason religion is getting rejected by Internet babies.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
7. I believe you're right, Le Taz Hot. Millennials are going to be key to everything.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:39 PM
Aug 2015

They are the generation who will either save us (humanity, the earth, etc.) or preside over the greatest destruction humankind has ever seen. They are uniquely positioned in time to bear an unusual amount of responsibility.

About ten years ago I started noticing that they were different in all kinds of ways. What I saw was a sunny, confident openness and lack of the hostility, distrust, prejudice, and artificial group divisions that characterize the rest of us, especially in our youth (e.g., "don't trust anyone over 30&quot . Sometimes when I'm talking with them it feels like they're from another planet. Their adaptability and resilience are exceptional. They are going to need these qualities when the world blows up in their face as climate change and the social upheaval of greed-driven income inequality get rolling at home and abroad.

Maybe it's the influence of instant-communication electronic media across nations and cultures, or maybe it's enlightened parenting, or some other factors, I don't know.

But it's incredibly telling, and quite beautiful, that they are turning out in droves for Bernie.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
13. They got left with the future no other generation cared about
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:00 PM
Aug 2015

If things remain the same, their future will be one where the jobs go away, the food will be poison and the planet will be in complete collapse. They should be pissed and motivate.

We can never shake the fact that all of us, didn't give a flying eff for them. We better start doing something now!

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
117. Care to introduce a Global Surplus Recycling Mechanism?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:55 AM
Aug 2015

That would take care of the financial part of a lot of our woes. First proposed by Keynes in 1940.

Disadvantage: fewer profits for thge 0.01 % - because there would be less to speculate about.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
118. Didn't know what it was
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:11 AM
Aug 2015

but found this interesting article that I could follow

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/30/syriza-finance-minister-big-idea-will-germany-accept-it

Keynes’s proposal for curbing the problem was to create global rules that would place equal pressure on both creditor and debtor nations to adjust their respective trade imbalances, helping to ease the burden shouldered by debtor nations. He suggested that any nation that failed to ensure its trade surplus did not exceed a particular percentage of its trade volume would be charged interest, compelling its currency to appreciate. These interest payments would help to finance the second arm of Keynes’s proposal: the creation of an International Clearing Union. The ICU would act as a sort of automatic “global surplus recycling mechanism,” to use Varoufakis’s term.


As Varoufakis has emphasised, individual nations do this internally. They disperse their own wealth, either through direct transfers (paying unemployment benefits in Glasgow or Idaho through taxes raised in London or New York), or through direct investment – purposefully building more factories and infrastructure in depressed regions.



hmmm
 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
119. The one thing about Mr. Sanders that I liked before the campaign started
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:19 AM
Aug 2015

was his never-ending appreciation of Keynes. Mostly expressed where government anti-cyclical spending was considered, but who knows he might try to introduce a GSRM (by a different name, obviously).

Without the USA introducing a GSRM, the world economy will remain in a slump for decades to come.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
121. We need to change the world economy for sure.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:27 AM
Aug 2015

What was interesting about he article I linked to, I found one before that where Varoufakis wrote about it in 2011. He being Greek, made it all the more poignant.

PatrickforO

(14,678 posts)
46. 'They are uniquely positioned in time to bear an unusual amount of responsibility.'
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:04 PM
Aug 2015

Yes. The responsibility they will bear is right up there with the WWII generation. And Taz says above they are the generation that inherited the future no one cared about.

These are profound things. I work with many millenials and they are very smart, positive and team oriented. They have can-do attitudes and definitely, as you say, know bullshit when they see it.

If they turn out as I think they will, Bernie will win. God I hope so, because we're a few years away from irreparable harm if we stay with the status quo. I mean, the earth will be fine whether it is full of life, or whether it is a smoking cinder revolving around the sun. The question is where will WE be, and what kind of lives will we have?

 

ericson00

(2,707 posts)
8. its because they don't know history
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:49 PM
Aug 2015

if they did, they wouldn't be so doomed to repeat it by nominating that guy.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
21. lol. awful broad brush you're wielding. and why do I suspect
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:10 PM
Aug 2015

that you don't know the context or the author of the quote you're referencing. Quick, go google it!

PatrickforO

(14,678 posts)
49. Why do I think you're not really for Hillary, maybe not even a Dem?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:07 PM
Aug 2015

What is it about Bernie's message that you disagree with? Single payer healthcare? Removing the payroll cap for Social Security to expand it and keep it solvent? Making the corporations and billionaires pay their fair share of taxes? Fixing the infrastructure?

I'm just wondering, because I've not seen one of your posts that has actually spoken of issues.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
66. I'm 71, know history, and will vote for Bernie.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:29 PM
Aug 2015

In '72 I voted for McCarthy in the primary and McGovern in the general as was majoring in History in college.

I'd do it again.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
80. Yes, we never should have nominated Franklin Pierce.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:39 PM
Aug 2015

seriously, bub, what "history"? 1972? I'd counter that increasingly historically irrelevant example with '68, when we nominated the safe, boring establishment candidate and lost.

How about 2004, when we nominated the guy who was supposed to be the "strong, smart" choice and all his "strong, smart" characteristics were used against him?

2008 when we nominated the guy who, we were assured, the American people would "never vote for in the general"... until they did?


I think people HAVE learned from History. At least some of us.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
89. This one knows lots of history. Try me, ericson00
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 06:19 PM
Aug 2015

I'd just love to engage with another student of history. Put forth your thesis, and let's all talk

 

Indepatriot

(1,253 posts)
107. Could your real name be Eeyore?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:58 PM
Aug 2015

If you have a minute, please explain how nominating another Third Way Wall Street "Democrat" named Clinton would not be dooming us to repeat history...

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
110. You showed a little bit of your own history...
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:47 PM
Aug 2015

Were you the one who was talking in the back of class?

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
112. And they don't understand how our government actually works.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 11:57 PM
Aug 2015

Most believe that the president is a kindly dictator who doesn't need to consult, compromise, and make deals with a hostile Congress. They actually believe that all a president has to do is command and "it will be done".

Once I explain it to them, they look at me with eyes of a deer caught in headlights.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
124. How would nominating Bernie be repeating history?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:54 AM
Aug 2015

Wouldn't that be more likely if we nominated someone named "Clinton" or "Bush"?

boston bean

(36,281 posts)
11. I wonder how many millenial Bernie supporters are on this site?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:56 PM
Aug 2015

I would assume, most are not.

But who knows!

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
14. You are correct
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:03 PM
Aug 2015

You are not able to reach them with party or die.

They are voting on their future because in the past---we didn't care about whether they would have jobs, opportunities, clean water, fuel or even a sustainable planet. They are the ones who live out the years if we don't turn it around.

As an Xer, I have opportunity to live as the planet collapses as well, so I am not overly fond of what the quote Greatest Generation unquote, the silent generation or the Boomers have not addressed and flitted away.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
28. The Boomers (many of us) tried like hell, but
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:35 PM
Aug 2015

we didn't know what was coming. Boomers rejected "the system," agitated for civil rights, protested the war, joined the peace corps, tried to live close to the earth and without social distinctions. We were young, we were amateurs, many of us were naive (guilty as charged), and we had no idea what the big boys in think tanks were planning for this country. Where were we when Reagan began the rollback of the middle class? Youth doesn't last forever; many Boomers had launched careers, started families, become distracted -- and were also a little bewildered by what was happening to our country -- the disappearance of main street, the pop-up shopping malls with identical chain stores, the erosion of local traditions, small communities, the sheer, bland, faceless enormity of the corporate takeover.

No, we weren't perfect, we weren't even wonderful. But damn, many of us really did try.

I personally think the "Greatest Generation" were relics of a former time; they thought in terms of duty, responsibility, law and order, etc. They were tough and self-controlled. They respected institutions. The silent generation, what I know of them, were interested in private, not public, life. They either did what they were told or rebelled quietly, like the Beats. I think your generation got caught amid the sea change occurring in America and sought ways to establish personal identity in what had become an impersonal world -- piercings, tattoos, styles like punks, goths, corporate types, etc. -- But I'm sorta guessing, here...

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
32. There have been progressives in every generation
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:45 PM
Aug 2015

And I know they cared a lot, but the majority of the generations were not progressives. If they had been, changes would have been made and plans for the future would have taken hold.

My point is that there are more progressives in this generation, finally.

I thank the Mud rakers, Earth Day planners, the Save our Family Farms, the people who boycotted grapes to stand with Cesar Chavez and all those who marched with signs saying "I am a Man".

It is now where the progressives are starting to have the numbers where the fight won't be so hard. The battle is pretty scary, though.

PatrickforO

(14,678 posts)
57. Yes artislife, it will get very rough.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:17 PM
Aug 2015

But at stake is that we need to change our minds as a species and get in better tune with each other and with our earth. I may have said this to you before, but a friend and I were talking just Friday about how we who are descended from northern Europeans came and set up a system here and across the entire world, pretty much, that elevates the individual want above the community need.

That's the mindset we've got to overturn. We need to value each other, and our communities, and the earth itself. The reason I'm supporting Bernie is that I think he's smart enough where, when he gets elected and it gets REALLY tough, he'll do the right stuff.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
61. Yes, you responded to my OP about the Ojibwas
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:25 PM
Aug 2015

Thank you

Since my grandfather ran away from the reservation at the age of 16, we didn't grow up involved in the Native ways. But he married a Mexican woman (the most wonderful soul) and she had a way of loving the land and not over using or consuming.

This HGTV and Pimp my Ride type of norms will have to end. We need to look at tiny living, but not for their awesome finishes and luxuries but for their compost toilets, solar panels and the fact that you cannot have a shopping hobby.

I lived briefly with a man who did that. I couldn't handle the fact that we had a 2 gallon water tank. I may have made it longer if we had had a 10 gallon one, but even I am too prissy for the type of living that will be coming soon.

Of course by then, I will not have the choice.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
69. I never felt clean
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:32 PM
Aug 2015

It is one of the reasons I stepped up my over night pet sitting business. One of the first things I would do when the owners left was take a long 10 minute shower. Because that felt like luxury!!

DonCoquixote

(13,617 posts)
133. The Greatest generation
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 05:28 AM
Aug 2015

To be fair, those folks grew up in the great depression, the crisis so severe that the rest of America had to realize that yes, there IS such a thing as common welfare, and that yes, Wall Street tycoons like Jeb's grandpa would have gladly sold it to Germany if Washington did not put a tight leash around their little necks. They wanted security and institutions because they, like few other generations in history, knew the want of such. When the started to pack their kids into Levitt town and the other suburbs made of ticky tacky they really did think they were giving their kids the world; little did they understand that those kids saw the facade behind all the plastic and ticky tacky, and that some wanted to move beyond it.

I say some, because while there were and are fighting the good fight, who do indeed deserve praise, there were many that were simply indulging yet one more appetite and following the crowd. These often morphed into the "Reagan Democrats" the folks that talk about being liberal, but want to make damned sure society knows they are the favorite children, and that the tax man better not try to take any of their toys and candy. It is one thing to say "well those GG types voted in Raygun" Yes, but they did, and still do, have the muscle to have choked out any Republican since then, especially the two bushes.

As far as X and the Millennials, well, I can only speak for X, but the fact is nop other generation since has had the simple demographic might, and the ways to indulge it. The only reason Xers got their music played was with a new medium, MTV, and that alone changed the nature of music. By the time MTV got to the Millennials, the execs had eaten off all the meat, which is why folks like Lady Gaga had to go to social media. As David Bowie, perhaps one of the more honest voices of the Boomers put it:

"these children that you spit on, they're quite aware of what they're going through." They know that we will be footing all the IOU's for the late 20th century, whether they be financial or otherwise. The Millennials will live to see the efforts being made to keep water out of NYC, and they can already hear China, Russia and India warm up as they prepare to become the new divas on the stage to amuse the oligarchs. X and the Millennials KNOW that our old age will not be like Grandpa riding around on a Golf Cart; hell, we will be lucky if we manage to protect social security from being taken.

I know many Boomers did and still do fight the good fight, and I offer you praise. It must sadden you to see so many of your fellows, who still pat themselves on the back for chanting "AUM" a few times back in the 60's , become outright defenders of the Status Quo. How could they forget what you and they saw together;the fact that for a while, there was a window to change society, what Dr. Hunter S. Thompson described as a great wave that left a watermark when it receded? The fact is, people like you kept their eyes open, and did not look at the shiny toys Wall Street offered, and those of us do thank you for that. However, OUR waves will not be receding anytime soon, the problem is that our watermark will be stained with blood, much like the ones that are still all over New Orleans.

salib

(2,116 posts)
100. Yep. We have failed our children.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:02 PM
Aug 2015

Our parents did better for us than we have for ours.

Yes, we have fought like hell. We have won some amazing battles.

Yet, here our children are facing potential tragedy from so many directions.

Maybe it was inevitable. Maybe there was nothing we could do.

Whatever. We failed.

So, now let's work like hell to help them clean it up. It is the least and best we can do.

 

DRoseDARs

(6,810 posts)
29. Can't speak for any of my peers...
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:42 PM
Aug 2015

But this millennial is here, since 10/2003, and well...
<<<<<<<<<

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
65. Believe me, you're appreciated!
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:28 PM
Aug 2015

We need more young people coming here. The only thing I can add is to echo what others are saying in this thread, about the problems that our generations have left for yours. Some of us did try, at least, to change the world or at least warn of the disasters that we were creating: militarism, environmental destruction, corporatization, etc.

Keep fighting the Good Fight! We Old Farts will be with you!

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
33. Probably not many and yet Bernie support is through the roof even here.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:45 PM
Aug 2015

It looks like Bernie is reaching through the generations. Go Bernie!

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
78. DU skews fairly old, in my experience, compared to other parts of the internet.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:29 PM
Aug 2015

It's one of the reasons I like it here. It's one of the only places left where a gray-haired Gen X duffer like myself can still be told to "get off my lawn".

 

J_J_

(1,213 posts)
84. noticed that too, but that is why I love it
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:37 PM
Aug 2015

I have learned so much from the collective wisdom here.

The millenials are on reddit, and I learn a lot from them too.

They are smart,open minded,caring about the world around them,compassionate,not judgemental...and they don't take shit from anybody.

If you get something wrong, they will let you know it with facts and intelligent responses.

This has elevated the intelligence of everyone and improved conversations tremendously.

Pretty sure that is why they are following Bernie- huge group effort to get Bernie elected
http://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
17. from what I've heard in real life, and read online
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:07 PM
Aug 2015

that is only one reason. The main reason seems to be authenticity. Call it the Holden Caulfield syndrome.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
26. yes. they do like his tone. for sure. from day one i said he would get the university,
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:26 PM
Aug 2015

white middle class demographic. he would be the cool professor that sits in a group for chat.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
18. Yeah, but they outnumber us
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:07 PM
Aug 2015

and they're mobilized via social media. I watched a 17-year-old yesterday take shots of our posters/fliers, post them on I don't know how many social media sites and almost immediately she started reporting how many "likes" or "shares" or "twits" or whatever they were. I was like, "Dayum!"

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
37. LOL That is precisely the point. None of us are asking for much just fairness in the system.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:50 PM
Aug 2015

And we will not be marginalized by those telling us it can't happen.

Funny how Hillary is now trying to jump on board some of these issues, isn't it?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
40. she and omalley have been forefront on these issues, you are just uninformed thinking they are
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:55 PM
Aug 2015

sanders issues. they are not. when you only hear or look for the negative, then your perspective is skewed. both these have been democratic issues, not sander issues.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
48. I think you are seeing things through Hillary colored glasses.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:07 PM
Aug 2015

Most of us who have been paying attention know that is was Bernie that was out front on these issues.

Nice ploy by throwing O'Malley in the mix too though. Are you hoping his supporters will jump on the Hillary bandwagon sometime soon?

By the way, I have no problem with Hillary or anyone else supporting the same causes that Bernie brings to light. That is his intention. Bring the issues to light and force support. That is how he will win Congress over too.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
53. ya, see. i stopped reading at the insult. i support omalley firstly. secondly get your facts
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:09 PM
Aug 2015

obama started the minimum wage increase, free jr college and omalley and clinton have their own plans.

start with insults, i stop reading and do not give your words consideration

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
54. If I did that, I would nevr get to read your posts.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:13 PM
Aug 2015

BTW, Bernie isn't talking free junior college. He is talking free college. big difference.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
63. Sounds more like defeatism than pragmatism.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:26 PM
Aug 2015

We used to have free colleges in California so it has been done before and it can be again. It is done in other countries too. An educated public can only be good for the country.

salib

(2,116 posts)
104. I went to The Universuty of Texas for what was basically free
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:10 PM
Aug 2015

In the 80s. California was not the only one.

Actually, nearly all state schools were nearly free. Just had to find a way to make room and board, if you did not have a scholarship, which is what that money went to.

So, I call BS on the claim that it cannot be done.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
105. i grew up in calif. college was certainly affordable. i am putting one thru college now and one
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:15 PM
Aug 2015

starting college next year. then the first one onto further education for three years. i certainly get what is going on with all this and any way to bring it to a more reasonable cost, i am game.

salib

(2,116 posts)
170. If we can get it down to "reasonable cost" we can make it basically free.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:38 PM
Aug 2015

There is little difference in the scheme of things.

I think that is all people are saying from the Bernie side. It is possible and pragmatic to create a free educational system.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
129. +1
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:54 AM
Aug 2015

So sick of the defeatist attitude on here. But then some of it is just an excuse to use to support centrist politicians.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
172. The status quo serves many quite well.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:54 PM
Aug 2015

They see Bernie, properly, as a serious threat to the status quo that HRH pledges allegiance to each day: plutocratic economics, the MIC's War Forever plans, and unwillingness to take real action on the threat of climate change.

No More Turd Way. Period.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
94. Not like the other side that drools at the prospects that fracking will increase oil company
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:29 PM
Aug 2015

profits at the expense of the 99%'s water supply.

I take it you are against free college and $15 min wage?

"It doesn't take much." Bingo. Just an honest politician.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
97. i am really fuckin tired that people cannot have a fuckin conversation without fuckin insults....
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:50 PM
Aug 2015
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
173. Well, YOU certainly expressed yourself there with restraint and eloquence.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:57 PM
Aug 2015


Is your tired schtick some kind of surrealist performance art, like Andy Kaufman's was?
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
175. i know. i hear ya. i am all grace...... yup
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:22 PM
Aug 2015

hifi, we are runnin' into each other all over, given me little taps as was pass

each and every time.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
98. "I take it you are against free college and $15 min wage? " no, i do not buy into free college. yes
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:55 PM
Aug 2015

i agree with 15 an hour.

i agree more on the scale of junior college free along with clinton obama and omalley though not positive the position omalley holds.

i totally think interest rates on loans should not be profit level. incredibly low

but i resent the hell the way you talk to me. so, since you feel you must be so disrespectful in every post, do not expect me to give you the fuckin curtesy of an answer, here on out.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
128. LOL
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:52 AM
Aug 2015

omg... why do you want to insult and alienate millenials? You think they're stupid and greedy?

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
143. no. i have them all around me. i think they are desperate, smart, and kick most of our ass.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:20 AM
Aug 2015

i am looking at 7 yr college for one kid, he is half way thru. i have another walking into college next year. we know the reality

why do you think it is an insult stating a fact. you guys too often assign shit that is just not there because of your own messed up perceptions.

EEO

(1,620 posts)
16. I am a Millenial, and my friends and family Millenials are tired of being fucked by rich people.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:05 PM
Aug 2015

Bernie is the ONLY candidate who has a chance of fixing the rigged economic system.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
67. Believe me, you're appreciated!
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:31 PM
Aug 2015

Same as I told a previous Millenial; keep fighting the good fight!

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
113. With what Congress? I look forward to Millenials recruiting House Reps and Senators
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 12:06 AM
Aug 2015

to be the establishment Dems and Republicans in Congress in order to help push Sanders' ambitious agenda through. Free college! $15 dollar minimum wage! Yeah. Not gonna happen without Congress. The reality is, no laws will pass to rein in rich people rights and nothing will be done to "fix the rigged economic system" if President Sanders doesn't have a Congress that will work with him. Those be the political realities.

At this point I truly feel sorry for Bernie Sanders. He's going to have to give his supporters a painful wake-up call should he, by some fluke, win the nom and the general election and head for the White House. Then he's going to have to explain to them that we have a government of three co-equal branches and that he's not a dictator, and then he'll have to tack to the center in order to get anything done. Cue the anger born out of disillusion.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
152. No. *You* finally are. Understanding political realities is why I won't support Bernie Sanders.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 10:46 AM
Aug 2015

And I've been saying this on this and every other message board I frequent long before that OP you've provided a link to. Check my posting history if you don't believe me.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
159. Ah, isn't it wonderful to call someone a dumbass?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:10 AM
Aug 2015

It is such a wonderful campaign tactic to tell the people you need that they are utter morons.

I already knew he couldn't do it alone, back when he started. I'm not expecting miracles. I'm expecting my party to start giving a shit about me and my vote.

The party has spent my entire adult life saying "GenX? Yeah, we bargained away the stuff to help you. But Republicans are worse!!!!".

To you, this means I'm a moron. And that is precisely why you do not understand.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
167. What the heck?? Who's calling whom a dumbass? Your words: "Well, if you actually paid attention..."
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 12:07 PM
Aug 2015

So you're the one insinuating that I'm clueless or slow. And thus, in light of that, when you say "it's wonderful to call someone a dumbass" or "moron", you were referring to yourself as the agitator, not me, right? Because I've never even alluded to that anywhere in my post. But you have. Let's at least get that straight.

I already knew he couldn't do it alone, back when he started. I'm not expecting miracles.

Among the Millennials and Bernie Sanders supporters, you're clearly in the minority. Early on, I supported him but then I got a reality check when I realized that the only way he can get any of his ambitious (and fair) agenda through is if we give him a Congress that'll work with him.

Then I realized, that if the American people couldn't give President Obama a Congress he could work with, what chance would Bernie Sanders have to get the Congress he needs in order to make his policies become reality? Since then, I've watched as he was skipped when it came to congressional and gubernatorial Dem endorsements. The majority are endorsing Hillary Clinton - even Vermont Governor, Peter Shimlin. That's when I knew Sanders would be made a lame-duck president, and we will most certainly lose the White House to Republicans in 2020 when U.S. M$M begin their campaign of vilifying, ad infinitum, the lack of accomplishments of a President Sanders.

My desire is to see President Obama's work continue and expand. I'm hoping Joe Biden will jump into the race because I trust that he will do just that.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
181. More "political realities"
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 04:51 PM
Aug 2015

You used the same reasoning -- "political realities" - to explain away why Clinton HAD to vote for a war that killed a million innocent people BECAUSE OTHERWISE SHE MIGHT LOOK BAD..

Your "political realities" are morally bankrupt and ethically vile.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
31. Which is why we need to protect net neutrality and stop any assault on open, interactive media.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:44 PM
Aug 2015

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
42. Another reason to vote for Bernie.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:57 PM
Aug 2015

He will appoint responsibly to the FCC.

Thanks for mentioning this. Bernie is unlikely to sell the appointments to the FCC for campaign contributions.

Some of the other candidates ??????? Not so sure about that.

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
24. What is a Mellinnial? Pretty sure you aren't referring to Melanin.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:25 PM
Aug 2015

If you are talking about Millennials, those that became adults around the year 2000, they grew up with the internet and cell phones in hand. They know how to operate with these devices, but are often helpless without them. Their school textbooks were written by Texas creationists and revisionists. They are no smarter or dumber than any other generation.

Like all young adults throughout time, they vote less and are less aware of politics than the generations before them. In time, they will see their children through the same eyes as we see them. Wishing and hoping that they have the same ideals that one holds for themselves is an exercise in futility.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
79. Actually, you can thank Millennials for the dramatic sea change in public opinion on things like
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:33 PM
Aug 2015

marriage equality and pot legalization.

If you think those issues would move as much as they have if those people weren't showing up to vote, you're wrong.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
137. so you're saying all Millennials were sent to school in Texas?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:28 AM
Aug 2015

Last edited Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:34 AM - Edit history (1)

Who knew?

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
141. Hmm... You think textbooks can't be shipped across the country?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 08:47 AM
Aug 2015

Sad little world...

I don't think that Millennials "were went" to school in Texas. Not even the "Millinnials", what ever they are

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
145. attack the typo...I'm so impressed. So you think all schools buy their textbooks from Texas
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:33 AM
Aug 2015

and there aren't any textbooks produced in, say, Massachusetts?

http://www.hmhco.com/

Whatever...

 

Thor_MN

(11,843 posts)
182. Where did I say all textbooks come from Texas?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:05 PM
Aug 2015

Attack the made-up-in-your-own-head non item... I'm so not impressed.


At least when you went back and corrected your typo in your made up, whatever, you didn't get wrong again like in the OP....

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
183. um, your words: Their school textbooks were written by Texas creationists and revisionists.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:07 PM
Aug 2015
back at ya.
 

DrBulldog

(841 posts)
25. Maybe the young are starting to realize that . . .
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:25 PM
Aug 2015

. . . Bernie Sanders has stood up and WALKED THE WALK straight as an arrow on the side of history his ENTIRE life and has accumulated and developed many years of sharp judgment and deep wisdom so uncommon to today's politicians. He is one of a kind. He is one in a million, maybe a billion. He may also be our nation's very last chance to save it from mud-sliding into permanent oligarchy and economic oppression.

whathehell

(29,273 posts)
43. Wow..A welcome change from 30+ years ago when 20 somethings started supporting Ronald Reagan
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:59 PM
Aug 2015

I remember the press questioning Abbie Hoffman regarding that unexpected

phenomenon in terms of his famous "Don't trust anyone over 30" dictum.

He responded: "Now you can't trust anyone UNDER thirty, they're all for Reagan"!

LiberalArkie

(15,868 posts)
77. Ronnie got the young vote by talking about the 30% being taken out of the pay check.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:24 PM
Aug 2015

He hooked a lot of people. But now I don't think that works as well because the youth know what that money used to go to. Now they just see it going to the banks, the military and not for the schools, or pubic needs. They are not buying the old mantra of having no taxes means a better life. They are way to smart to fall for that.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
52. I think they will.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:09 PM
Aug 2015

The voted for Obama in 2008 but stayed home in 2012 because they saw the second Obama took office he took a sharp right-wing turn. You can't fool these guys and they don't have the Blind Partisan disease their predecessors have/had.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
157. For Sanders, yes. It will be difficult for Clinton to get them out.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:02 AM
Aug 2015

That's a big piece that is missing from most people's calculus on "electable". They keep ignoring "the kids" because they have always ignored "the kids". So "the kids" don't turn out.

The small size of GenX meant they could be ignored. And they were. The large size of Millenials (bigger than Boomers) means ignoring them is really dumb politics.

DemocraticWing

(1,290 posts)
50. We want Bernie.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:07 PM
Aug 2015

Young people are on board for Sanders for the most part, although there are plenty of Hillary supporters too. But Bernie just flat out gets it on things like free college and LGBTQ rights, which is helping drive his support.

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
58. Well said, Le Taz Hot!
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 03:19 PM
Aug 2015

When Bernie says the country must have a best educated work force in the world he means it because he believes it. And I do too, even though I have a rusty baby boomer brain.

We cannot afford to let all this talent sit on the side lines. The only ones that would advocate such a thing are those that could care less about the country, the same ones that want to ship the jobs overseas.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
81. who says Sanders isn't pandering?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:19 PM
Aug 2015

isn't offering free college and student loan forgiveness the epitome of "pandering"?

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
83. no. fail. bzzzt. he's been proposing these things for decades
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:36 PM
Aug 2015

I've heard him talk about tuition free public colleges for years at town hall potlucks and on VPR.


By the way, I think your hit and run ops really stink. Post something incendiary and then run away.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
85. I'm coming back aren't I?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:40 PM
Aug 2015
http://observer.com/2015/08/candidates-should-stop-pandering-about-debt-free-college/


That is essentially what three Democratic presidential candidates are promising voters by jumping on the same populist bandwagon: let’s make college free. First, Bernie Sanders said that he would find $70 billion annually—by taxing Wall Street—to allow any kid to attend a state college for free. Then Hillary Clinton announced a $350 billion ten-year program to allow kids to enable students to avoid crippling debts. And finally Martin O’Malley chimed in, “Me too!” A pox on all of them. They are misleading voters and are being either disingenuous, cynical, or both.



Most parents and students would love it if someone else – or someone else’s taxes — paid for junior’s college. And whether a higher education entitlement should make it to the top of our priority list is a valid topic for debate. But no candidate should debase this important discussion by deceiving the voters – especially so early in the campaign.
 

cali

(114,904 posts)
87. lol. he's been proposing this for decades and he has a plan to pay for it
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 05:51 PM
Aug 2015

As for deceptive, that's your hilly over and over again; on the tpp and keystone, just for starters.

And I was referring to at least 2 ops you posted where you ran away, not responding once.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
101. nope
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:02 PM
Aug 2015

he doesn't have a plan to pay for it.

Show me exactly how much it costs and who's paying for it.

His numbers on financial transaction tax don't come anywhere near enough.

 

Arugula Latte

(50,566 posts)
123. How much did the Iraq invasion and slaughter cost? Was Hillary concerned about its cost
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:52 AM
Aug 2015

she voted for it? Why is there ALWAYS multi-billions for worthless shit like the Iraq decimation but never anything for something that would actually help people, like funding education?

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
160. Sanders EDU plan vs Hillary
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:17 AM
Aug 2015

Bernie doesn't have a plan to pay for it? http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/05/19/bernie_sanders_free_college_plan_make_wall_street_pay_for_higher_education.html

Now let's take a look at when Bernie's campaign called out Hillary on her plan
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-sanders-campaign-calls-out-hillarys-college-plan-disappointment-not-truly-free

"The difference between the two plans seems to be the difference between Sanders' democratic socialist worldview and Clinton's neoliberal one. For Sanders, college is a right, just like K-12 education, or police and fire services. You will get it, fully subsidized, because it is an essential. For the Clinton campaign, college is still a privilege, something you have to pay for and work for, even while you are a student. It's a consumer good. The competing plans are a microcosm of the two candidates' approach to policy."

And therein lies the difference between you and your candidate and ours.
We don't need the same old same old, we need new ideas by people who don't have more baggage than Samsonite can produce, not wishy wash answers based in which way the wind is blowing.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
130. Guess what? Their taxes (and other peoples' taxes) USED TO pay for college
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:57 AM
Aug 2015

Now their taxes pay for endless war and bankster bailouts.

 

hill2016

(1,772 posts)
102. these proposals
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 10:05 PM
Aug 2015

are quite incomplete without the "how much it costs and who's paying for it" part.

Until Bernie gives a full accounting of the cost part, these proposals are just hopes and wishes. In my line of work, we work off hard numbers not hopes and wishes.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
158. Except he's already outlined how he plans to pay for it. You even quoted it, in brief
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:02 AM
Aug 2015
First, Bernie Sanders said that he would find $70 billion annually—by taxing Wall Street—to allow any kid to attend a state college for free.


It's not a "fine details" outline, because implementation of that will depend on the situation of 2017 or beyond.

What's your line of work? And what sort of income do you get out of it?
 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
162. Sanders miles ahead
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:27 AM
Aug 2015

So much so, that while you were watching Hillary, Bernie introduced legislation to make his plan a reality http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/5/19/bernie-sanders-unveils-plan-for-tuition-free-public-colleges.html
I think how it's paid for is pretty well known and covered at this point.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
92. Do you oppose these proposals? If so, please articulate why.
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 07:25 PM
Aug 2015

Crickets? I hear nothing but crickets.

With posts like yours, hil2016, it is no wonder why we are all getting fed up with the Hillary group.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
93. What's not to love?
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 07:31 PM
Aug 2015

He's like the guy running for class president that promises 2 hour recess and pizza every day. Look at all the shit you get for free and you don't even have to pay for it! Plays well, but it it actually come to pulling the trigger, I think most will see through the bullshit.

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
96. He is ike the guy running for class president who wants what other modern high schools have
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 09:44 PM
Aug 2015

had for decades.

The U.S. evolving into a modern western liberal democracy - what a terrible thought.

Marty McGraw

(1,024 posts)
114. Free?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 12:46 AM
Aug 2015

We're working our asses off and getting spit for our efforts! Comes every 60yr. cycle and now it has come to the point where just a Dickens-Like survival alone to maintain a meager source of living has collapsed. The upper echelon has far eclipsed everyone with their abhorrent greed and sociopathy. Are You seriously worried about how we *Will* wrest their crooked take from all the years of back door dealing back into the rest of society?

I hope they will remember all about your empathy toward them when the shit starts to really hit them in the face.

But, good luck with that.
 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
177. You are being deliberately ignorant.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:04 PM
Aug 2015

Multiple posters have provided an answer to you, with links, yet you keep posting this same thing.

There is no point to reading any of your future posts.

/bye.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
180. The parrot-bots can't do anything but squawk
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 04:44 PM
Aug 2015

the three phrases with which they have been programmed.

tritsofme

(17,796 posts)
116. Is there actually any data out there showing Sanders overperforms among millenials?
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 01:53 AM
Aug 2015

Or is this just what you happen to think?

postatomic

(1,771 posts)
125. I had over a dozen really good jokes on this subject
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 02:57 AM
Aug 2015

But few people 'round here have much of a sense of humor.

K&nR!!!!!

pinstikfartherin

(500 posts)
126. Speaking as a millennial, to all the negative responses..
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 03:10 AM
Aug 2015

Yes, there are some who hear free college and jump on his bandwagon. But from so many I've talked to amongst my age group? We understand it takes more than a Presidential election to change this country. We're already talking about who to support locally and how to keep the enthusiasm up past the general election.

I don't support Bernie because I want something for free. I know he can't do everything he says he wants to by himself, and he will tell you that, too. Free shit isn't on my damn agenda. Taking my government back from the influence of corporate interests and the insanely weathly is my number one goal. Fuck free college. Fuck a $15 wage. Fuck single payer. None of it will ever happen and be allowed to work in the long run if we keep letting the corporations run our government. We must take our government back and make it work for the people before we even think of making good change.

I'm self employed. I pay my taxes quarterly like a good little American, so I am highly aware of my tax situation. My effective tax rate last year was 10% yet these corporations pay an effective rate of nothing? Fuck them. I'm tired of corporate welfare. I will not vote for someone who is in their pocket.

I don't give a damn how lofty Bernie's proposals are. I don't give a damn if he doesn't get free college or free anything passed. Every naysayer is throwing out the free shit line. I'm not supporting him for that. I am supporting Bernie Sanders because he has supported the average American his entire career and been consistent. I am supporting Bernie Sanders because he isn't paid for by the wealthy and influential. I am voting Bernie Sanders because he is our only chance to take this country back from the wealthy. Because he cares. Because I know what he believes and he isn't afraid to stand against the status quo. Because he supports our veterans. Because he fights for the common good. Because I agree with most, though not all, of his stances.

Fuck your free shit and don't think you speak for me. I'm informed and I'm feeling the BERN because I'm fucking angry. I want a future for my kids, and this clown car we have now isn't going to ensure that. They only care about themselves just like too many people in this country. No, I want a better future for my family and yours, whether you're a racist, gun-stroking red neck here in my neck of the woods or a deep blue lefty blinded by establishment politics. I want to believe in America again. Right now all I see is the United States of I-Bought-You.

Le Taz Hot

(22,271 posts)
136. Oh yeah!!!
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 06:58 AM
Aug 2015


You need to make this an OP. Seriously, it's your time and you guys need to be heard.

For my fellow Old Farts. Spend an hour with these guys. They will absolutely energize you!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
138. ***THIS***THIS***THIS***
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:38 AM
Aug 2015

Last edited Mon Aug 31, 2015, 08:19 AM - Edit history (1)

I agree with sibelian and La Taz Hot, you should post this as an op!


gordianot

(15,326 posts)
164. YES.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:52 AM
Aug 2015

I was told much the same by some College students recently. I listened, my only response you are correct.

 

MillennialDem

(2,367 posts)
139. This older millennial (sometimes a millennial, sometimes an xer according to people who do demograph
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 07:53 AM
Aug 2015

ics) will be voting for Bernie in the primaries and whichever democrat emerges in the general.

To be honest I'm even to the left of Bernie and I think even if he gets elected it will be tough to get much through congress we absolutely must flip the supreme court. They've been crapping on millennial's faces our entire lives and it's time for that to change.

 

ever4lasting

(10 posts)
148. Rich coined the word socialism
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 09:52 AM
Aug 2015

I will vote for Sanders before Clinton. She will pick her rich cronies over the rest of us. We need someone to be in our corner for once. the rich are the ones that coined the phrase Socialism. I listen to Milton Friedman and he stated when the rich have to share the economy with the rest of us it is socialism , but when they take a large portion of the economy for them it is called business. The rich already take over a billion annually of tax payers money. That money should go to the tax payers and America. It is OK to spend our tax dollars for us. It is high time that the Rich start standing on their own two feet and stop living off of the tax payer.

gordianot

(15,326 posts)
163. We have come a long way since Socialist Eugene Debs at the turn of the twentieth century.
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 11:39 AM
Aug 2015

Today Debs would have been able to find a home in the Sanders campaign Debs founded the Socialist Party. Still a hero of the labor movement the right wing corporate interests honed their skills discrediting Debs and what should have been populist agenda. The same old arguments will be trotted out and applied to Sanders left over from generations conditioned by the red scare. When viewed in the context of history the International Russian Communist menace has been replaced by a real, equal, or greater menace in the form of Authoritarian Corporate Oligarchs hell bent on establishing an "International" world economy. The Millennials are awake to the fact they are being thrown crumbs. In the end it was not International Communism that brought about wealth distribution but the Capitalist Oligarchs who are redistributing Middle Class comfort while the ultra wealthy keep their wealth. The Oligarchs tried to run one of their own creations for President in 2012 unfortunately for them he managed to insult those he needed for votes. This time a protected failed Oligarch Donald Trump has been trotted out as a spokesman for 100 years of voter conditioning to vote against your own best self interest. Trump is pure Fascism.

After all Oligarchs you did put tremendous social media power in the hands of children for quick profit, how short sighted of you because you did not foresee the consequences. Will the millennials get it and reject 100 years of right wing political bullshit? Will Millennials fall in line and allow themselves to become cannon fodder once again? Will they realize the real conflict is the system is being gamed and that the real threat is catastrophic man made climate change for quick profit? Is Bernie Sanders ready to counter the coming storm? By late 2016 we will know.

mainer

(12,087 posts)
166. Either Bernie Sanders or ... Rand Paul. Those are the millennials I know
Mon Aug 31, 2015, 12:01 PM
Aug 2015

I know millennials from both sides of the political spectrum.

Those who are Republicans all seem to be Rand Paul supporters, and they tell me that if Trump or Cruz wins the nomination, they'll sit out this election and not vote at all. Jeb Bush bores them. They don't know any of the others.

Those who are Democrats all support Sanders. They're just not excited about Hillary.

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