Bernie Sanders: My Supporters Are 'Not Anti-Hillary Clinton'. Obviously, Bernie hasn't been to DU

[still_one]

WASHINGTON -- Responding to a poll showing him surging in Iowa, Democratic presidential contender Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) argued on Sunday that his supporters are “not necessarily anti-Hillary Clinton.”

“I think the gains that we are seeing, and the enthusiasm and the huge crowds that we are seeing, this is not anti-Hillary Clinton. This is pro-Bernie Sanders and pro a message that says enough is enough. This country and our government belong to all of us, not just a handful of very wealthy people,” he told ABC’s Martha Raddatz.

A Des Moines Register/Bloomberg Politics poll released Saturday showed Sanders just 7 points behind Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton, another in a series of polls from Iowa and New Hampshire showing him within reach or even ahead of Clinton.

Many of those polls do not indicate that Sanders, seen as a progressive alternative to Clinton, is taking support away from the former secretary of state. For example, in Saturday’s poll, 96 percent of those who supported Sanders said they did so because of his ideas, while 2 percent said they back him mostly because they do not support Clinton.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton_55e31bc9e4b0aec9f35392ab

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. preference does not equal anti

that's an unfair very broad brush stroke you have there.

[still_one]

8. Really, how about a thread encouraging people to write-in Bernie's name if he isn't the nominee?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128044248

[NRaleighLiberal]

10. you didn't really hit my comment - a preference does not mean anti - it is a preference.

Yes, there are some who are clearly anti - but using such a generalization doesn't help whatever civility we have left here.

[still_one]

21. Agreed, and it does happen on both sides, but there have been some stinging threads in the last

couple of days, that have really jumped the shark.

For those so inclined, there are plenty of issues to argue and discuss the pros and cons of the candidates without resorting to these tactics.

As you said we should really try to maintain some civility among ourselves while disagreeing, and I couldn't agree more

[NRaleighLiberal]

40. .

[artislife]

31. I am anti H in the primaries

why settle for unchange when we have someone who really wants to tackle issues head on and isn't afraid to say so.

[still_one]

95. I was not referring to the primaries. However, there appear to be some here encouraging people not to

vote for the Democratic nominee, if it is not to their liking, and write, the name of the candidate in the general election that is to their liking. That kind of discourse, not only divides Democrats, but also provides a path for a Democratic loss. At the very least it is bad taste on a Democratic forum

[Trajan]

57. Still an expression of preference, not hatred ...

You have escaped my iggy bin, but no longer ...

Your specious accusations warrant removal from my day to day life .. Who needs bullshit like this? ..

Not I ... Good riddance ...

[Thor_MN]

93. How can you tell it is just a preference?

Beyond any shadow of a doubt, there are GOP trolls here. Most are too stupid and order the pizza, but there are others that aren't stupid. They want nothing more than causing divisions and fights. And in most cases, there isn't any way to tell the difference.

That said, they aren't truly Sanders supporters, but they are happy to imitate one. They definitely anti-Clinton. Probably true that there are, or will be, fake Clinton supporter trolls that would be anti-Sanders, if it appeared that he was winning.

No matter which candidate you support, if all one has to say is right wing attacks, one is anti- the other candidate. What Sanders said means to me, is that he doesn't consider people that are going negative are on his side. He is disowning them. YMMV.

[Metric System]

2. Funny and true. Also, he really comes across as a one-issue candidate.

[L0oniX]

4. "one-issue candidate" You've revealed that you know nothing about him.

Here's some help:

1. Rebuilding Our Crumbling Infrastructure
We need a major investment to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure: roads, bridges, water systems, waste water plants, airports, railroads and schools. It has been estimated that the cost of the Bush-Cheney Iraq War, a war we should never have waged, will total $3 trillion by the time the last veteran receives needed care. A $1 trillion investment in infrastructure could create 13 million decent paying jobs and make this country more efficient and productive. We need to invest in infrastructure, not more war.

2. Reversing Climate Change
The United States must lead the world in reversing climate change and make certain that this planet is habitable for our children and grandchildren. We must transform our energy system away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energies. Millions of homes and buildings need to be weatherized, our transportation system needs to be energy efficient and we need to greatly accelerate the progress we are already seeing in wind, solar, geothermal, biomass and other forms of sustainable energy. Transforming our energy system will not only protect the environment, it will create good paying jobs.

3. Creating Worker Co-ops
We need to develop new economic models to increase job creation and productivity. Instead of giving huge tax breaks to corporations which ship our jobs to China and other low-wage countries, we need to provide assistance to workers who want to purchase their own businesses by establishing worker-owned cooperatives. Study after study shows that when workers have an ownership stake in the businesses they work for, productivity goes up, absenteeism goes down and employees are much more satisfied with their jobs.

4. Growing the Trade Union Movement
Union workers who are able to collectively bargain for higher wages and benefits earn substantially more than non-union workers. Today, corporate opposition to union organizing makes it extremely difficult for workers to join a union. We need legislation which makes it clear that when a majority of workers sign cards in support of a union, they can form a union.

5. Raising the Minimum Wage
The current federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. We need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. No one in this country who works 40 hours a week should live in poverty.
6. Pay Equity for Women Workers
Women workers today earn 78 percent of what their male counterparts make. We need pay equity in our country — equal pay for equal work.

7. Trade Policies that Benefit American Workers
Since 2001 we have lost more than 60,000 factories in this country, and more than 4.9 million decent-paying manufacturing jobs. We must end our disastrous trade policies (NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, etc.) which enable corporate America to shut down plants in this country and move to China and other low-wage countries. We need to end the race to the bottom and develop trade policies which demand that American corporations create jobs here, and not abroad.

8. Making College Affordable for All
In today's highly competitive global economy, millions of Americans are unable to afford the higher education they need in order to get good-paying jobs. Further, with both parents now often at work, most working-class families can't locate the high-quality and affordable child care they need for their kids. Quality education in America, from child care to higher education, must be affordable for all. Without a high-quality and affordable educational system, we will be unable to compete globally and our standard of living will continue to decline.

9. Taking on Wall Street
The function of banking is to facilitate the flow of capital into productive and job-creating activities. Financial institutions cannot be an island unto themselves, standing as huge profit centers outside of the real economy. Today, six huge Wall Street financial institutions have assets equivalent to 61 percent of our gross domestic product - over $9.8 trillion. These institutions underwrite more than half the mortgages in this country and more than two-thirds of the credit cards. The greed, recklessness and illegal behavior of major Wall Street firms plunged this country into the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. They are too powerful to be reformed. They must be broken up.

10. Health Care as a Right for All
The United States must join the rest of the industrialized world and recognize that health care is a right of all, and not a privilege. Despite the fact that more than 40 million Americans have no health insurance, we spend almost twice as much per capita on health care as any other nation. We need to establish a Medicare-for-all, single-payer system.

11. Protecting the Most Vulnerable Americans
Millions of seniors live in poverty and we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country. We must strengthen the social safety net, not weaken it. Instead of cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and nutrition programs, we should be expanding these programs.

12. Real Tax Reform
At a time of massive wealth and income inequality, we need a progressive tax system in this country which is based on ability to pay. It is not acceptable that major profitable corporations have paid nothing in federal income taxes, and that corporate CEOs in this country often enjoy an effective tax rate which is lower than their secretaries. It is absurd that we lose over $100 billion a year in revenue because corporations and the wealthy stash their cash in offshore tax havens around the world. The time is long overdue for real tax reform.

[Metric System]

120. I didn't say he is a one-issue candidate. I said he comes across as one. Reading comprehension is

key.

[L0oniX]

121. Indeed ...if you think he comes across as a one-issue candidate you haven't comprehended the facts.

Again here's some help:

1. Rebuilding Our Crumbling Infrastructure
We need a major investment to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure: roads, bridges, water systems, waste water plants, airports, railroads and schools. It has been estimated that the cost of the Bush-Cheney Iraq War, a war we should never have waged, will total $3 trillion by the time the last veteran receives needed care. A $1 trillion investment in infrastructure could create 13 million decent paying jobs and make this country more efficient and productive. We need to invest in infrastructure, not more war.

2. Reversing Climate Change
The United States must lead the world in reversing climate change and make certain that this planet is habitable for our children and grandchildren. We must transform our energy system away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energies. Millions of homes and buildings need to be weatherized, our transportation system needs to be energy efficient and we need to greatly accelerate the progress we are already seeing in wind, solar, geothermal, biomass and other forms of sustainable energy. Transforming our energy system will not only protect the environment, it will create good paying jobs.

3. Creating Worker Co-ops
We need to develop new economic models to increase job creation and productivity. Instead of giving huge tax breaks to corporations which ship our jobs to China and other low-wage countries, we need to provide assistance to workers who want to purchase their own businesses by establishing worker-owned cooperatives. Study after study shows that when workers have an ownership stake in the businesses they work for, productivity goes up, absenteeism goes down and employees are much more satisfied with their jobs.

4. Growing the Trade Union Movement
Union workers who are able to collectively bargain for higher wages and benefits earn substantially more than non-union workers. Today, corporate opposition to union organizing makes it extremely difficult for workers to join a union. We need legislation which makes it clear that when a majority of workers sign cards in support of a union, they can form a union.

5. Raising the Minimum Wage
The current federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. We need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. No one in this country who works 40 hours a week should live in poverty.
6. Pay Equity for Women Workers
Women workers today earn 78 percent of what their male counterparts make. We need pay equity in our country — equal pay for equal work.

7. Trade Policies that Benefit American Workers
Since 2001 we have lost more than 60,000 factories in this country, and more than 4.9 million decent-paying manufacturing jobs. We must end our disastrous trade policies (NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, etc.) which enable corporate America to shut down plants in this country and move to China and other low-wage countries. We need to end the race to the bottom and develop trade policies which demand that American corporations create jobs here, and not abroad.

8. Making College Affordable for All
In today's highly competitive global economy, millions of Americans are unable to afford the higher education they need in order to get good-paying jobs. Further, with both parents now often at work, most working-class families can't locate the high-quality and affordable child care they need for their kids. Quality education in America, from child care to higher education, must be affordable for all. Without a high-quality and affordable educational system, we will be unable to compete globally and our standard of living will continue to decline.

9. Taking on Wall Street
The function of banking is to facilitate the flow of capital into productive and job-creating activities. Financial institutions cannot be an island unto themselves, standing as huge profit centers outside of the real economy. Today, six huge Wall Street financial institutions have assets equivalent to 61 percent of our gross domestic product - over $9.8 trillion. These institutions underwrite more than half the mortgages in this country and more than two-thirds of the credit cards. The greed, recklessness and illegal behavior of major Wall Street firms plunged this country into the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. They are too powerful to be reformed. They must be broken up.

10. Health Care as a Right for All
The United States must join the rest of the industrialized world and recognize that health care is a right of all, and not a privilege. Despite the fact that more than 40 million Americans have no health insurance, we spend almost twice as much per capita on health care as any other nation. We need to establish a Medicare-for-all, single-payer system.

11. Protecting the Most Vulnerable Americans
Millions of seniors live in poverty and we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country. We must strengthen the social safety net, not weaken it. Instead of cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and nutrition programs, we should be expanding these programs.

12. Real Tax Reform
At a time of massive wealth and income inequality, we need a progressive tax system in this country which is based on ability to pay. It is not acceptable that major profitable corporations have paid nothing in federal income taxes, and that corporate CEOs in this country often enjoy an effective tax rate which is lower than their secretaries. It is absurd that we lose over $100 billion a year in revenue because corporations and the wealthy stash their cash in offshore tax havens around the world. The time is long overdue for real tax reform.

[pinebox]

14. One issue?

Would that happen to be campaign finance reform, student loan debt, minimum wage, single payer health care, anti-KXL, anti-TPP, pro same sex marriage, income inequality, anti-war, overturning citizens united, women's rights, maternity leave or the countless other things #FeelTheBern stands for?

[Armstead]

22. You are either totally misinformed, or being deliberratly obtuse

He has addressed many issues, in his campaign and throughout his life.

You are welcome to disagree with him on the issues. But don't claim he has no stance on a wide range of issues...That's just being either ignorant or deliberatly disingenuous.

[L0oniX]

122. IMO it is a comprehension problem. Look up thread. There's really not enough facts yet.

[artislife]

29. Only because

you may not like the way he lines up against your candidate on all the other issues.

[Duckhunter935]

38. One issue, LOL

[StandingInLeftField]

63. "We'll just keep throwing memes against the wall….

…until we find something that sticks."

The reek of desperation.

[seabeyond]

66. i do not get your sig line. are you calling clinton a b***h? really?

[cyberswede]

70. It's "B" for Bernie trying to drag "H" for Hillary to the left.

[seabeyond]

72. i understand. are you really pretending that is not b****h?

[nashville_brook]

75. yeah i don't see that, either: Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

LERTER'S COMMENTS

sig line as cute and clever as the poster think it is, is calling clinton a bitch. this should go to administration and kicked off.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Aug 30, 2015, 02:20 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Nothing to see here -- move along ...
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: THIS HAS NO PLACE HERE
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't get why this was alerted on.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sorry I can't see a sig line on alerted on posts.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm not sure what this alert is for so leave it alone

[cyberswede]

76. Are you kidding?

Of course it's not "bitch."

Jesus Christ. Not everything in the world is a sexist slur.

I love ya, sea, but I'm seriously AMAZED that you see "bitch" when you look at that.

The "B" is physically smaller than the "H" to demonstrate how the Clinton campaign is bigger & more well-funded. Why would the "H" be bigger if the graphic is supposed to be "bitch?"

And I'm not pretending anything, but thanks for the dig. Disappointed.

[seabeyond]

78. Of course it's not "bitch." why cyber? because of course we have no one that would call clinton B?

[cyberswede]

83. I'm sure there are people who call her that. But this sig isn't calling her that.

That you assume, by default, that it *is* is a shame. I think it's preventing you from being objective.

It is clearly showing Bernie pulling Hillary to the left.

There is a specific alert option for sig lines that goes straight to Admins. Use it, if you think the sig in inappropriate.

[seabeyond]

84. right. it is a real shame to think an anti clinton would be giggling putting that together seeing

two jabs. cause it is not like we do not get TONS of sophmoric giggles on du, especially anti woman that they often get away with.

just my bad.

[cyberswede]

90. I just think you're wrong here...reading something into it that isn't there.

Look, I think sexist slurs (or even sexist critiques) toward Clinton are completely inappropriate.

I just don't think that sig is intended that way.

[seabeyond]

92. i do not know, but i suspect otherwise. throw up boobs2016, for a good giggle. b<<<<t for a

Last edited Sun Aug 30, 2015, 04:23 PM - Edit history (1)

good giggle.

but, i do know that if one was to say, do a public campaign and had a logo like that, the idea would be trashed awfully quickly. kinda like if ned and rex ran against each other and rex was black, we would not have

n<<<<<r.

right?

[TheFarS1de]

128. I never thought it was in that vein

the hint is the big arrows pointing left and right . To read that much in a simple B is ludicrous .

[BlueCaliDem]

105. seabeyond is correct...that sig looks exactly as she pointed out to me, too.

Hm.

[seaglass]

112. cyberswede, it really is a shame but I think the shame is on DU, not the way sea saw this.

Before your explanation I saw the same exact thing as sea did. Why wouldn't I, when Hillary can be called a whore and a c*nt and have many Bernie supporters and the usual suspects excuse and try to explain it away? It's not like sexism is new on DU.

You are one of the most fair-minded posters I have run across on DU and I'm really surprised that you are so casually dismissing sea's perspective, which I believe is absolutely legitimate.

[PoliticAverse]

85. Having read many of the poster's other posts I'm convinced she isn't kidding. n/t

[peacebird]

94. It's Bernie pulling Hillary to the left, clearly. Good grief. Some imagination you have going, Sea..

[seabeyond]

97. right. cause. boobs2016 isnt the exact same thing. not like pro sanders would play juvenile games.

[Autumn]

113. Her's how it goes sea, ,f you read the post watched the video you would know that BOOBS 2016

stands for Billionaires & Oligarchs Opposing Bernie Sanders. It is that group of supporters way of getting attention to Bernie wanting to tax the wealthy and break up the banks. How do you ignore what has been explained just so you can enjoy the outrage?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251557251

[seabeyond]

114. giggle giggle boobs, giggle giggle. sorry. i say fart to a couple 4 yrs olds and get the same giggle

i really have no interest in particiapting, but i know you are having a blast. so giggle away. boobs.

[beam me up scottie]

127. You said it was misogynistic, now you're admitting you're outraged because it's funny?

Let it go already.

[peacebird]

142. The graphic is just the small Bernie 'b' pulling the Hillary 'h' left... Sometimes a cigar is just a

cigar.

You are clearly stretching to try to imply it means something sexist and misogynistic, which it doesn't. This is simply you Seeing what you want to see in order to support your outrage.

[Autumn]

110. We don't have to pretend, we know it's not. It was discussed by the Sanders supporters

at length when it was first used over the ridiculousness of Bernie pulling Hillary to the left.

[seabeyond]

115. so you discussed the potential and said, ... oh, fuck it.

[Autumn]

116. No, I said we know what it stands for. Bernie pulling Hillary to the left.

None of us ever suspected some one would see that and decided a lasso thrown by a B and pulling on the H means B***H. Cause if a person lassos a horse they make the horse go where they want it to go. If anything I would have gone with BRANCH. But hey, that's where my mind goes.

[seabeyond]

117. i understand the above board meaning. i think there is a back door meaning too.

[Autumn]

118. Well I'm not one to waste my time looking for things that aren't there just to be outraged.

[bobbobbins01]

129. I'm outraged at your used of the term back door.

Extremely childish and crude. This has no place on DU. And you calling others out for boobs is just the height of irony.

[Doctor_J]

98. must find misogyny in every post on the entire internet

Must be outraged every waking moment.

When you've only got one club in your bag, every shot comes out the same

[seabeyond]

99. 97. right. cause. boobs2016 isnt the exact same thing. not like pro sanders would play juvenile

[Scootaloo]

126. You just went a long way towards proving StandingInLeftField's point

"We'll just keep throwing memes against the wall….

…until we find something that sticks."

The reek of desperation.

Now please. Ask me about my sig line, and your interpretation of it. Or my avatar / username (they're the same thing, so hey)

[RufusTFirefly]

131. Why stop at the B word? What about the rope?

It obviously advocates some sort of bondage.

ALVY
You know, I was having lunch with some guys from NBC, so I said ... uh, "Did you eat yet or what?" and Tom Christie said, "No, didchoo?" Not, did you, didchoo eat? Jew? No, not did you eat, but Jew eat? Jew. You get it? Jew eat?

ROB
Ah, Max, you, uh ...

ALVY
Stop calling me Max.

ROB
Why, Max? It's a good name for you. Max, you see conspiracies in everything.

The most disturbing thing about that graphic is the bizarre, wildly off-target interpretation of it.

[Scootaloo]

119. What one issue is that? n/t

[L0oniX]

123. There's a comprehension problem. Maybe too many facts to choose from?

1. Rebuilding Our Crumbling Infrastructure
We need a major investment to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure: roads, bridges, water systems, waste water plants, airports, railroads and schools. It has been estimated that the cost of the Bush-Cheney Iraq War, a war we should never have waged, will total $3 trillion by the time the last veteran receives needed care. A $1 trillion investment in infrastructure could create 13 million decent paying jobs and make this country more efficient and productive. We need to invest in infrastructure, not more war.

2. Reversing Climate Change
The United States must lead the world in reversing climate change and make certain that this planet is habitable for our children and grandchildren. We must transform our energy system away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energies. Millions of homes and buildings need to be weatherized, our transportation system needs to be energy efficient and we need to greatly accelerate the progress we are already seeing in wind, solar, geothermal, biomass and other forms of sustainable energy. Transforming our energy system will not only protect the environment, it will create good paying jobs.

3. Creating Worker Co-ops
We need to develop new economic models to increase job creation and productivity. Instead of giving huge tax breaks to corporations which ship our jobs to China and other low-wage countries, we need to provide assistance to workers who want to purchase their own businesses by establishing worker-owned cooperatives. Study after study shows that when workers have an ownership stake in the businesses they work for, productivity goes up, absenteeism goes down and employees are much more satisfied with their jobs.

4. Growing the Trade Union Movement
Union workers who are able to collectively bargain for higher wages and benefits earn substantially more than non-union workers. Today, corporate opposition to union organizing makes it extremely difficult for workers to join a union. We need legislation which makes it clear that when a majority of workers sign cards in support of a union, they can form a union.

5. Raising the Minimum Wage
The current federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour is a starvation wage. We need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. No one in this country who works 40 hours a week should live in poverty.
6. Pay Equity for Women Workers
Women workers today earn 78 percent of what their male counterparts make. We need pay equity in our country — equal pay for equal work.

7. Trade Policies that Benefit American Workers
Since 2001 we have lost more than 60,000 factories in this country, and more than 4.9 million decent-paying manufacturing jobs. We must end our disastrous trade policies (NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, etc.) which enable corporate America to shut down plants in this country and move to China and other low-wage countries. We need to end the race to the bottom and develop trade policies which demand that American corporations create jobs here, and not abroad.

8. Making College Affordable for All
In today's highly competitive global economy, millions of Americans are unable to afford the higher education they need in order to get good-paying jobs. Further, with both parents now often at work, most working-class families can't locate the high-quality and affordable child care they need for their kids. Quality education in America, from child care to higher education, must be affordable for all. Without a high-quality and affordable educational system, we will be unable to compete globally and our standard of living will continue to decline.

9. Taking on Wall Street
The function of banking is to facilitate the flow of capital into productive and job-creating activities. Financial institutions cannot be an island unto themselves, standing as huge profit centers outside of the real economy. Today, six huge Wall Street financial institutions have assets equivalent to 61 percent of our gross domestic product - over $9.8 trillion. These institutions underwrite more than half the mortgages in this country and more than two-thirds of the credit cards. The greed, recklessness and illegal behavior of major Wall Street firms plunged this country into the worst financial crisis since the 1930s. They are too powerful to be reformed. They must be broken up.

10. Health Care as a Right for All
The United States must join the rest of the industrialized world and recognize that health care is a right of all, and not a privilege. Despite the fact that more than 40 million Americans have no health insurance, we spend almost twice as much per capita on health care as any other nation. We need to establish a Medicare-for-all, single-payer system.

11. Protecting the Most Vulnerable Americans
Millions of seniors live in poverty and we have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country. We must strengthen the social safety net, not weaken it. Instead of cutting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and nutrition programs, we should be expanding these programs.

12. Real Tax Reform
At a time of massive wealth and income inequality, we need a progressive tax system in this country which is based on ability to pay. It is not acceptable that major profitable corporations have paid nothing in federal income taxes, and that corporate CEOs in this country often enjoy an effective tax rate which is lower than their secretaries. It is absurd that we lose over $100 billion a year in revenue because corporations and the wealthy stash their cash in offshore tax havens around the world. The time is long overdue for real tax reform.

[Scootaloo]

133. Evidently Metric system is not going to be forthcoming with what sanders' "One Issue" is

[leftofcool]

132. +1

[L0oniX]

3. You can be "Anti-Hillary Clinton" ...hold your nose and be blind folded when you vote for her.

No Bernie supporter wants a republifuck in office ...and I think you know that. But please proceed.

[reddread]

5. can you be "Anti-War" and support her?

im thinking not.

[L0oniX]

7. That is a hard one.

[seabeyond]

43. you cannot support sanders if you are anti war? he stated today, he has no problem using military

[reddread]

46. sing along

[seabeyond]

48. you cannot answer that one. gotcha.

[reddread]

49. sorry

thats as remedial a lesson as i can find

[seabeyond]

50. not interested in watching some silly video. i was interested in the lack of consistency.

[reddread]

51. better watch it a few times then

[Andy823]

135. Did you vote for Kerry? nt

[still_one]

12. Or someone can start threads encouraging people to write-in Bernie if he isn't the nominee

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128044248

Yes, please proceed

[L0oniX]

17. In Florida you can write in on the primary. Yes please assume.

[still_one]

104. Actually, I believe write-ins can be done in all states fro any election, so you are correct

[Bobbie Jo]

35. *smh*

Gee, I wonder why that was self-deleted.

That group is in my trash bin for a reason.

[djean111]

6. Clearly, DU is not the center of the universe.

Here at DU, yeah, there are those like me who do not care to support Hillary for President.
Just as any criticism of her deeds or policies are immediate labeled "smears" and "bashing", it looks like anyone who supports another candidate is anti-Hillary by default.

IMO, The millennials don't even care about Hillary. She is old guard, more of the same, why bother stuff to them.
Nothing personal. They just don't get caught up in the very coldly contrived D vs R game.
At least that is what I am told by my 20 year old grandson.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

13. Just a drop in the universe!

[onehandle]

9. The 'Not Hillary' Party won't like this. nt

[Sancho]

11. It seems clear that Bernie support is not the same as anti-Hillary...

Bernie himself is well-behaved. Many OPs on DU are out-of-control "bash and trash" rants that could just as easily be found on a RW website.

If Bernie reads DUP, he's probably ashamed.

[seabeyond]

15. "Bernie himself is well-behaved." except when he quietly pays a woman to write an article stating he

is better on womens issues than clinton.

that has kinda shifted my view on

Bernie himself is well-behaved.

[Sancho]

26. You may be correct in one way...he is a politician.

Bernie has clearly avoided a war with Hillary - likely because he thinks it's in his best interest. His supporters on DU have been pretty nasty. I guess I don't mind to much, because I think all that attack dog stuff probably loses supporters and does nothing to really harm Hillary.

I didn't know about the article. I'll look for it.

We'll see how it goes.

[seabeyond]

36. he is a politician.

i spent a couple months reading about sanders history. it was very interesting. he is an interesting man, making unusual choices, especially for his time. that being said, he has been clear where he stands. i listened, and i believe him. thru out, he has shown he is a politician, but supporters want to believe otherwise. personally, i can value the real of who he is, without creating illusions.

he is being real careful, and interesting watching him walk this. i admire he admitted and stated that much of the attack on clinton is sexism, and a man would experience. and still, he is a politician.

he wants to stay tight with the dems, he needs them and has a roe in his senate position. i do not expect to see him bern those ties.

being a politician.

and it is not an insult, in my definition, to .... be a politician. i guess that is why i do not mind when a politician, is being a politician.

the article in on this page. something along the lines as sanders is better for women than clinton or some such rot.

[cali]

20. proportionately, there are more Clinton supporter Bernie bashers on du

than the other way around. By far.

[AgingAmerican]

47. That was my first thought when I read the OP

They lack self awareness

[artislife]

25. Ha!

Though I do think if H surrogants were (*) to read here, they would be so happy at the posts made on her behalf.

[BlueCaliDem]

106. Actually, they would. But people running his campaign and trying to convince more people to support

him would be horrified by the so-called Bernie supporters on DU.

[Armstead]

30. DU is inherently not well behaved, no matter where people stand

It's a goddamn message board. People discuss and argue -- sometimes politely and rationally, sometimes angrily and emotionally.

Doesn't matter which candidate or side of an issue.

No different than a heated discussion in an average living room -- just a lot more people and more public.

[Sancho]

34. I know how to argue and discuss...

some on DU are not well-behaved. They violate the TOS, stalk others looking for alerts, and use troll-like tactics.

Bernie tends to stick to the issues as he sees them. Bernie has avoided personal attacks on other Democratic candidates.

That is in contrast to some on DU. The reason I'm not posting examples is because I choose not to expose someone in a personal attack. I'm sure you can figure it out if you wish.

[Armstead]

41. I am simply pointing out that is it not limited to any one candidate

[Bjorn Against]

16. You misquoted him in your headline and you should change it to reflect what he actually said

The article posted quotes him correctly when he says his supporters are "not necessarily anti-Hillary Clinton", why did you leave out the bolded word when that is a crucial part of the quote? What Bernie said was 100% accurate but you changed the quote to make it sound like he was referring to all of his supporters when he clearly was not.

[Motown_Johnny]

18. Most of us are not anti-Hillary

It is just that any criticism of her is considered an attack.

Case in point, many of us had been saying that her using a personal email account for government emails was a mistake. We were all attacked for that. Now Hillary herself has said the same thing.

We are not against her, we are for him.

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. Well. There was a thread ...

Pinned to the top of a certain group that would indicate otherwise.

And it got a bunch of recommendation and a lot of traffic.

[Motown_Johnny]

37. We don't trust her to be our nominee and disagree on some policies

She is a big risk. Even if this email thing blows over the next scandal could come from the Clinton Foundation, or somewhere else we can't even imagine yet.

When only about 1 out of 3 Americans think you are trustworthy you can't defend yourself from smear attacks. People just won't believe your explanation. Then when you add in things that are actually true and look bad, like this email thing or sniper gate, it makes the GOP lies look true.

Also, disagreeing with her on issues is not being anti-Hillary either. We are against the policies she supports. Her recent roll out of a plan to expand corn based ethanol is one example. Everyone knows that corn based ethanol is a terrible idea. There is no debate about it. Yet she has a brand new policy to expand it. I am against it. That does not mean that I hate her. I just hate the idea of expanding on something we know doesn't work.


Go ahead and read that OP again. I don't think you will find anything personal about it. We just don't want her as our nominee and we also feel that we can't risk her as our nominee.

[1StrongBlackMan]

39. I get all of that; but, that thread ...

was anti-HRC ... and so were many of those posting to it.

[questionseverything]

55. she wants to expand corn based ethanol?

that is something i did not know,if you have a link i would like to see it

corn ethanol takes 7 times the water to process as switchgrass or hemp would take so i agree it is a terrible idea

[Motown_Johnny]

59. Here is a link to a thread about it, which has a link of it's own

She rolled this out 4 days ago. Clinton supporters seem to have been praising her for it. Personally I am disgusted by it.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=548592

[artislife]

19. *sniff *sob

[PatrickforO]

23. I'm not 'anti' Clinton. I just think Bernie is the best candidate for me because

I agree with him on almost everything he says, particularly the bit about making corporations PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE of taxes, which Clinton has never even uttered.

The conclusion I've come to is that the establishment branches of both parties support the oligarchs, but the establishment Dems, including Hillary are just a bit more socially liberal. But that's it.

Then you've got the crazy wing of the GOP supporting Trump, who is a fascist pretty much.

And you have Bernie, who in my opinion is the next FDR.

[seabeyond]

32. i think that is it mostly in the real world. i think a lot are repugs and independents

hence it is not about clinton, but what sanders is saying, and him reaching out to them with middle class campaign.

i think du is different. i was all for sanders prior to him coming out. when he was just putting out feelers.

the big push was for warren. a large anti clinton group that do lots of anti clinton posts were not on board with sanders. they did not even discuss sanders. they were all for warren.

when he declared, sander supporters were pretty cool, then days later, the swoop from this group became sander supporters once they realized he was the man to go after clinton, warren wasnt running.

it was interesting.

the sanders supporters i know in real life are all fine with clinton, and think she will probably be inevitable, but they are having a blast supporting sanders for the primary.

so.... i agree with you and sanders.

[HassleCat]

24. How many, really?

Yes. some of my fellow Sanders supporters are pretty vitriolic, vengeful, etc. There was a post yesterday about the emails and blaming Clinton for Ambassador Stephen's death. Pretty nasty stuff. I don't think there are a large number of Sanders supporters who feel that way. Most of us will vote for Clinton if she is the nominee, and we recognize it's bad business to circulate Republican hate points here on DU. We don't appear to be the large majority because we don't stay up all night, drinking and looking for dirt.

[Starry Messenger]

27. I know he's on Twitter too.

Perhaps he doesn't hang out in subtweets much. The Sanders Twitterverse went nuts with the Sorosfail about BlackLivesMatter. I screencapped the hell out of that hilarious crap.

[pinebox]

28. Interesting

I am anti-HRC and I openly admit that. I'm also not a Dem but an indy. That being said, long ago I said my dream ticket is Sanders/Warren and I've half that complete. When it comes to the issues, I see HRC more of a blue dog DINO than anything else. Sans a few social issues here and there, she is essentially a Republican. Sure, I may get hammered for saying that but one can't help to see the reality that the abyss between Sanders and HRC and where they stand on this issues is just massive.

I want a candidate who shoots straight and whose opinion's on the issues aren't changing all the time. We all know what Hillary said a few years ago about same sex marriage for instance. During that time, Bernie supported it. The list goes on.

You have a corporate democrat vs an outsider independent who changed his party affiliation in order to win the nomination. I like people who give you straight answers that are definitive, not candidates who can't tell you where they stand and dance around issues like KXL and TPP.

He's a fresh face with fresh exciting new ideas, much of which America hasn't heard before and that is why he's surging. He simply connects with people & quite frankly, Hillary has a LOT of baggage.

[AgingAmerican]

42. As if Hillary supporters are pro-Sanders?

[seabeyond]

45. have you seen any clinton/omalley supporters state they will not supporter sanders?

[AgingAmerican]

52. Sanders positions are unassailable

What we do see are endless bullshit attack OPs against him, made up out of whole cloth, implying he is a racist and all sorts of other salacious nonsense.

Hillary supporters lack self awareness.

[seabeyond]

53. so no. you see no omalley/clinton supporters saying they will vote against sanders.

[AgingAmerican]

54. Sanders positions are unaassailable

Thus Hillary supporters constantly make things up about Sanders and his supporters.

Hillary supporters lack self awareness.

[seabeyond]

56. the simple fact he does not have follow thru puts him on the bottom of some peoples list. i disagree

[AgingAmerican]

58. So they make things up?

Hillary supporters lack self awareness.

[seabeyond]

60. i do not even get your point of this one. later dude..... you have nothing,

[AgingAmerican]

64. Hillary supporters cannot attack him on issues

So they make things up and attack him with that instead. All the while whining how unfair Sanders supporters are to Hillary. Do you see the disconnect? It's called, 'hypocrisy".

A little self awareness is a good thing.

[seabeyond]

65. follow thru is certainly a huge issue. top on my list. omalley comes in first, clinton close behind,

sanders hasnt even gotten off the blocks.

why you would not see 'can do' as a consideration tells me a how of a lot.

[AgingAmerican]

67. Another made up 'issue'

Thanks for proving my point

[seabeyond]

71. he has accomplished little to nothing in all the years in congress. fact. now done.

[AgingAmerican]

87. Another made up issue

It's all they have.

[Cry]

124. Congress.gov disagrees with you.

Co-sponsored over 5,000 bills, 235+ became law. I think he has accomplished alot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. Yes actually, both here and on Facebook, a few on twitter

they are so small that they should be considered noise... but given how ugly this campaign is turning I also expect PUMAs, we already have proto PUMAs, assuming anybody else gets the nomination from Clinton. I hope the phenomena is just as small (if noisy) as it was in 2008 though. (Somehow I expect it to be a smidgen larger, but not by much)

You asked, you got an answer, And do not ask me for links. Linking to twitter, or FB is a pain and I do not keep notebooks of DU posts.

[seabeyond]

62. havent seen it on du, you will have to prove it. 2016 pumas seems to be sanders supporters

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. As I said, I DO NOT keep notebooks of DU posters, or posts, I thought I was clear on that

it is out there, and it is thankfully ON ALL SIDES CONCERNED, extremely small, Though I was accused of being a racist here on DU. By the reductio ad absurdum that some in media (read Gawker for example) are using, should I charge the HILLARY CAMPAIGN for being responsible? Nope, I am far more responsible than that. I hold those few posters though in contempt though.

That is where we are.

But yes, some fans for ALL candidates have actually posted on different social media platforms that if the other guy\gal gets the nom, they are sitting out the election. It is what it is. This noise is a regular feature now, and should be treated the way I am treating it, useless noise, not weaponized.

Will some folks ON ALL SIDES stay home? There is no doubt in my mind either, but it will be a very small number Some will not even be becuase they posted on Aug of the 2015 they were not going to vote. It will be due to family emergencies or other unforeseen reasons that keep them away from the polls. Of the small number that NOW are saying I will not vote, most will vote anyway.

That is reality...

[seabeyond]

73. it doesnt happen. not one clinton supporter is stupid enough to not vote sanders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Except that I have seen it posted

by HRC fans in social media. They are just as small of a group as the Sanders I will not vote for her, or the rest of them.

I can count those posts, FOR ALL OF THEM, in the fingers of two hands. As I said, stop attempting to weaponize background noise. It is unhelpful.

[seabeyond]

77. on du. i am not vowing for all of the net. i do not believe you have seen one on du

now done

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Yes I have, but alas I do not keep notebooks on DU posts

perhaps you do.

The average was as good as the rest of social media and DU IS SOCIAL MEDIA...

Of course I was told this in the flesh too... but hey... it is noise... that's it.

[PoliticAverse]

86. Of course there is. n/t

[seabeyond]

89. link. i have not seen one and we have had many threads asking the question. just one

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Now this is an original take

and a lovely personal attack as well, one expected on DU.

So you think the phenomena was not real and that we should ignore that history, or all of it?

Cute though, on that scale you got an 11 out of the 1-10 scale.

[taught_me_patience]

134. Link please for DU Hillary supporters who would not support Sanders in the general

I haven't seen any.

Personally, I disagree with many of Sander's positions and I really do not like him as a candidate. He's a distant third in my mind for the Democratic primary. However, I'll happly support him if he wins the primary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. I have, and personally I was called by two members of this board

racist, and mentally unstable.

Will I hold it against the campaign they are behind, like Gawker and a few others have done with Sanders supporters? Nope. Suffice it to say I don't like these two people one bit. But I am mature enough to consider a few people posting online in suport of any candidate insulting others, or promising not to vote for them, something that does not represent ANY campaign. It is reductio ad absurdum. But I have seen this... from partisans for several campaigns... and it is less than the fingers in my two hands.



The mature way to treat this is quite frankly as background noise until it becomes more serious, which frankly I doubt it will, Even if I expect things to get that much more personal

Mind you I really do not support anybody, and when we decide, it will not be posted here. We are working media so we really do not bother telling anybody who we support, not even close family. Nor do we donate to any campaign anymore. We just cover this shit. And local races are also starting to get exciting...which makes me very, very, very happy.

[zappaman]

138. You were called "racist" and "mentally unstable" by 2 DUers?

Please link so I can send those posts to jury.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Why? I do not alert so I will not have you alert

It is that simple. I just hold these two people in utter disdain.

[zappaman]

140. Because that kind of insult should not be tolerated.

At all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. In an ideal world maybe

but this place is one where I just expect it. This is what being a punching bag is all about. And it is what it is.

[Autumn]

44. Bernie is correct. I don't like Hillary and don't want to vote for her. That is simply my prefrence

Bernie is by far the better person in my view, that doesn't make me anti Hillary. I'm just Pro Bernie.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

69. Well....this one is.

[cheapdate]

80. There is actually a sizable number of DU'ers

who favor Sanders without preaching fire and brimstone on Hillary Clinton. I see that view expressed a lot. But things being what they are, those expressions rest generally unremarked upon, while the more strident and polarizing comments draw all of the attention and replies.

[HappyPlace]

81. He is right. We are anti=establishment. Here's the poll results in Iowa.

I don't imagine DU is that far from these results, I think it's more a phenomenon of exchanges between a few here on both sides than what DU thinks or feels:

[Gman]

82. Bernie hasn't been to DU?

Fortunately, DU is far from representing the real world.

[Ino]

96. What difference does it make?!

One might whine that someone who would vote for any (D) rather than an (R) is "just anti-Republican!!!!" That they are "just Republican-haters!!!"

As if hatred takes place for no reason at all... as if there's no rationale behind being anti-someone.

What difference does it make if someone is voting FOR Sanders, or if they are voting for anyone BUT Hillary?

People have REASONS for being anti-Hillary, or anti-anyone, or anti-anything.

And "reasons against" are just as important as "reasons for." "Against votes" count the same as "for votes." That's why a candidate takes his/her negatives into account and hopefully addresses them, not just whines about them... "Oh, someone who votes for anyone but me is just a me-hater! For no reason! Nothing I can do about it! They should be ashamed of themselves! I hate them back!" LOL

I'm sure Hillary will be happy to get all the Bernie Haters' votes. Just like McCain was happy to get all the votes from the Hillary-loving PUMAs (Party Unity My Ass). You don't think the PUMAs will raise their heads again if she's not the nominee? What about all the dire warnings on DU that Sanders needs Hillary supporters' votes (so you-all better be nice to us)?

[still_one]

103. An interesting post to say the least, with a lot in it. However, after the primaries, one would

expect party unity behind the nominee, whoever it is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. As I posted above

I expect the PUMAs to be real... and real loud, and again real small They might be a smidgen larger or smaller, but they will not change any outcome. And a few, like 2008, will vote for whoever the Rs run...

I have read from all fans. ok except Webb, and also Chaffee, but those have like zero track. That they will refuse to vote if their candidate does not get the nom. This is now normal background noise. I think I have read ONE O'Malley fan post something like that. Then again that person these days is non committed to anybody. By the way, I am talking of the totality of social media I follow, INCLUDING DU. It is twitter, it is FB, it is Google Plus, it is DU... and it is really, really background at this point. It should be mostly ignored.

It is a low level hum in social media. When all is said and done most people who are posting these things are not going to sit out the election, The level of grumbling as they vote in Nov of 2016 will vary, but people who are paying attention this early are simply not going to sit it out with very few exceptions And most of those will be things like a family emergency, or something of that level.

[tiredtoo]

101. I am a Bernie Supporter

Not anti-Hillary. Just would prefer Bernie as the candidate. Like his values better than Hillarys

[still_one]

102. and hopefully that is the way most supporters of a particular candidate should feel. They should

prefer their candidate.

[MrMickeysMom]

108. If I say, "enough is enough", which includes a POTUS-HRC, that makes me nothing but...

a Pro Bernie POTUS.

I'm not supportive of her HRC POTUS. It's that simple…

…except when that constitutes clumping me into a group label where the only criteria to be is a Bernie supporter.

I supported her as much as anyone could who believed she did the best job she could, given any role she had. Her role in the Senate showed me that I'd never support her as POTUS.

This is not conspiracy, nor is it attack mode. It is, in fact a position of what is good for this country. Seems like more and more Democrats are coming to the same conclusion.

[Warren DeMontague]

109. The underlying attitude behind this is illuminating, to say the least.

Like, if you don't support Hillary, why not? The assumption is that she's automatically entitled to primary support (it's "her turn", after all) and if Democratic voters are going off-script by NOT supporting her and introducing impediments to the divinely ordained outcome, WHAT IS THEIR PROBLEM????

Can't they just get with the program, already???

[John Poet]

111. I am more anti-Hillary now than I was before I started

hanging around this place again...

... and it has nothing to do with Bernie supporters or anti-Hillary posts here.

It has everything to do with the condescension, ridicule, superiority and entitlement displayed here by many of the Hillary supporters here and on Facebook. I really, really don't like these people. After all this exposure to them, I feel that they don't deserve to see their candidate elected.

That is emotion. Logic has little to do with it, I will freely admit.

[beam me up scottie]

125. Oh yay. Another Bernie's awesome but his supporters suck op.

[Chan790]

137. I think that sentiment puts the cart before the horse somewhat.

A.) Do I think most Sanders supporters are anti-Hillary? No, I don't.

B.) I do know however this anti-Hillary voter supports Sanders. I think most anti-Hillary Democratic primary voters support Sanders as he's fairly close to their on-paper ideal candidate.

What is the gap between A and B? Most people who fall into B would not support Hillary if she was running unopposed and she has no path to win them back.

Ultimately, the total number of B and what % of the electorate they are will determine if Hillary has a chance to actually win this election. I personally believe that she does not have any chance to win the GE.