Jimmy Dore, A Comedian Who Is Part Of The TYT Network, Said It Perfectly...

[WillyT]

From memory: "Bernie Sanders is the person we thought we were voting for in 2008."

Book: http://www.amazon.com/Your-Country-Just-That-Into/dp/0762453516

Bit:

Boom...

[villager]

1. Exactly.

n/t

[Skittles]

2. mmmmm

anyone who was paying attention knew Obama was no Bernie Sanders

[ibegurpard]

15. Yes but we hoped he wouldn't be Hillary Clinton

A false hope it turned out.

[Doctor_J]

3. I hope so

[jwirr]

4. Absolutely. He has taken the message of change and

fleshed it out with concrete ideas that resonate to people who need help in the areas that he is talking about.

[pansypoo53219]

5. shit said by people WHO AIN'T PAYING ATTENTION.

hard to make change when you get blocked by the GOP AT ALL TURNS. shit. THE FILBUSTER administration. RACISM. PAY ATTENTION. GAH!

[AlbertCat]

6. PAY ATTENTION. GAH!

Well, at least Sanders doesn't admire Reagan.

[bvar22]

14. nor does he claim that his policies...

...are "Moderate Republican Policies from the 80s".

(I detested the "Moderate Republicans in the 80s", and worked HARD to make sure those policies,
the opposite of FDR, weren't enacted.... and then Bill came along as the Clean-Up Hitter for Reagan).

[Hoppy]

10. There is validity to pointing out the G.O.P. opposition to anything Obama wanted to do.

But, that doesn't excuse Eric Holder, Geithner, Emanuel and the rest of his crew.

Also, if he fought as hard for single payer as he did for the Iran deal and he is doing for TPP, we would be better off today.

[uponit7771]

7. Yeap, in the center of the Sanders movement is unreasonable Obama disappointment without the

... the realization that Sanders will have the same congress to work with and less of a mandate.

[zentrum]

8. Not true.

Obama had us at his back but he withdrew into the Washington Bubble after 2008. He left his biggest source of power which was the people who elected him.

Bernie will not do that. He is not dazzled by power or Washington. He intends to keep asking us to do the work for him by pressuring our reps.

Now that it's his second term, O is returning to campaign-Obama and his approval rating is rising. He's doing now what he should have down to begins with.

Bernie won't make those mistakes.

[bvar22]

16. The Promise of "Change".

[font color=white]......[/font][font size=4]Obama's Army for “CHANGE”, Jan. 21, 2009[/font]

[font color=white].....................[/font][font size=4]"Oh, What could have been."[/font]


The Army for Change was left standing in the streets without leadership from the guy who promised it.
They milled around for a while during Republican Town Hall Summer while the leadership was silent.

Some of them eventually got disgusted, and helped form OWS.

[zentrum]

19. Exactly right.

[uponit7771]

23. That number x 10 would've worked on the gerrymandered republican congress?! I'm really starting to

... think that either people don't know how America's government works or we're being ratfucked serious here

[uponit7771]

22. HOW!? This is one question Sanders REFUSES to address... HOW is "pressuring our reps" supposed...

... to work with a gerrymandered congress?

They don't answer to "us"...

America TECHNICALLY has not had a representative congress since 2010

any practical non platitude answer is appreaciated

[zentrum]

24. Well gee…..

…..you mean as a non-represented because gerrymandered member of a district I can't call or go to the office of the rep who got in by gerrymandering and not give him/her hell?

You mean we can only pressure and make miserable the lives of our own real reps?

And how Presidents should just stay in Washington and just endlessly extent their hands to same said gerrymandered senators and reps with us helplessly standing by for that process?

I didn't know that gerrymandering meant we have to go blind, deaf, dumb and passive.

Thanks for the head's up. Guess I'll go back to my cubby and not understand any more how groundswells, media coverage and movements are built. If it can't happen overnight or is hard or there are obstacles, I see now the people need to just give up because gerrymandering.

[uponit7771]

25. The other reps could care less about what you think?! They don't have to give a shit and they've

... showing it for the last 4 years!!!

Obama is doing signing statements now to progress his agenda, to say he's just going through the process isn't factual

and yes,

If you have an unrepresentative government you're going to go blind, deaf and dumb or damn near...

THAT'S THE CONSEQUENCES OF NOT VOTING !!!!!!!!!!!

again... I'll ask..

what NON PLATITUDE empirical actions can be taken?!

tia

[zentrum]

29. The point was...

Last edited Wed Sep 9, 2015, 04:44 PM - Edit history (2)

…that large numbers DID vote for Obama and he won. TWICE. Because we VOTED. And yes, he had to deal with a hostile gerrymandered congress BUT he also LEFT his base of power—which was the people who VOTED for him, even though there was gerrymandering. He left us.

Bernie will face the same situation that O faced in 08 and YET will NOT withdraw into Washington and will keep building the MOVEMENT started on the campaign trail. He will not be as dis-empowered as Obama was in term one because he lost touch with US. WE VOTERS WHO DID AS YOU SUGGEST BY VOTING FOR HIM. And who would have done anything he asked of us the day after inauguration.

He only had to ask. He didn't.

But by all means—have it your way—use the only tool that seems to exist in your tool box and if you can't have that tool—go ahead and believe that we only have to have a helpless President because gerrymandering.

And by the way I never said O is "just going through the process". Quite a leap on your part. He's doing good stuff because he doesn't give a damn anymore about the gerrymandered congress. He's behaving as he could have and should have in term one.

[uponit7771]

34. "left his base of power" is non descript.. I have no Idea what that means and no.. I verily disagree

... that he "left us" as if there were no other progressive tenants that weren't passed after Obama was elected.

He kept 76% of what he said he'd do and that was in the face of horrible... horrible hatred...

If someone was able to keep 3/4 of what they said they'd do with the opposition Obama faced then I would say he did 100% more than what most would do in his position.

Expecting the president to be president and a movement COORDINATOR is a obsured on its face.

None of what was posted answers the question; what will Bernie do with the same congress Obama faced beyond more non descript phrases such as "building the movement"

as if

the GOP

Gives a fuck

About the movement...

Move your state, your car, your house... hell... have a bowel movement... they don't care

He only had to ask. He didn't.

This is bull fuckin shit, the big lie Bernie Sanders is telling about Obama that is false on its face

And, above all, I will ask you to join in the work of remaking this nation

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/04/obama.transcript/

[Yavin4]

36. Bernie supporters actually think that this Congress will pass a Wall Street tax

and give everyone in America a free college education. Yeah right.

[uponit7771]

37. +1 That's because this is what Sanders keeps telling them! Sanders is disappointingly ignoring...

...congress and the effect they have on legislation also.

Then take animated wording like "fight" and shit and make it a filler for actually have to deal with GOP folk who will shut down the government for no damn good reason and cost

24 billion dollars

right after the nations worse recession since the great depression

[bvar22]

33. Instead of studying Reagan, Obama should have studied LBJ.

Read Up on "The Johnson Treatment".

"Johnson was the catalyst, the cajoler in chief. History records him as the nation's greatest legislative politician. In a great piece on the Daily Beast website, LBJ aide Tom Johnson, writes about how his old boss would have gotten a health care reform bill through the current congress. It's worth reading to understand the full impact of the "Johnson treatment" and how effective LBJ could be in winning votes for his legislation."

http://thejohnsonpost.blogspot.com/2009/08/johnson-treatment.html

...and there is this:

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/17

Conyers added ""My response to him (President Obama) is TO MASS THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN FRONT OF THE WHITE HOUSE TO PROTEST THIS."

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Rep-Conyers-Obama-Demand-by-Jeanine-Molloff-110729-352.html

President Obama NEVER called on his Army for Change to help.
Had he done so, Millions would have shown up, myself included.


The biggest problem President Obama faced was NOT The Republicans, but conservative Democrats were the major inhibitor to "change".

Have you forgotten how every President in our History maintained Party Discipline?
Let me give you a little reminder:

"So what did the Democratic Party establishment do when a Senator who allegedly impedes their agenda faced a primary challenger who would be more supportive of that agenda? They engaged in full-scale efforts to support Blanche Lincoln.

* Bill Clinton traveled to Arkansas to urge loyal Democrats to vote for her, bashing liberal groups for good measure.

*Obama recorded an ad for Lincoln which, among other things, were used to tell African-American primary voters that they should vote for her because she works for their interests.

*The entire Party infrastructure lent its support and resources to Lincoln — a Senator who supposedly prevents Democrats from doing all sorts of Wonderful, Progressive Things which they so wish they could do but just don’t have the votes for.

<snip>

What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse we’ve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, [font size=3]if the Senate doesn’t have 60 votes to pass good legislation, it’s not Obama’s fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators. It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face. [/font]

Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you don’t support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but we’ll support a primary challenger against you. Obama’s support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"

Aren't you a little embarrassed repeating that whiny excuse for being ineffective?
"We don't have 60 votes because of those mean Republicans.
What could we do?
It was HORRIBLE.
We just had to sit on our hands and watch the Republicans, with their conservative friends in the Democratic Party RUIN Health Care for everybody."


Then there is this:
"[font size=3]A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus but a molder of consensus."[/font]
---Rev Martin Luther King Jr.

[uponit7771]

35. Such is the problem with Sanders supporters expectations; they expect more theatre than actual

... work.

More speaches, more "asking for the movement to start a revolution" (or some shit) other than doing some actual work.

Activity isn't the same as progress...

[bvar22]

51. More Nonsense.

Give your pitiful excuses to LBJ if you get to meet him in the next Life.


It wasn't the Republicans that were blocking Obama the first two years,
it was THE CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS.
Presidents DO have ways of maintaining Party Discipline,
and helping obstructionists (like Blanche Lincoln) is NOT one of the methods that has ever worked.


Remember when Kucinich staunchly refused to vote for the ACA because Obama ditched the Public Option?
All it took was a little ride on Air Force One alone with the President to change his mind completely.

Too bad Blanche Lincoln or Max Baucus weren't "invited" for a little ride on AF1 too.

What happened in this race also gives the lie to the insufferable excuse we’ve been hearing for the last 18 months from countless Obama defenders: namely, if the Senate doesn’t have 60 votes to pass good legislation, it’s not Obama’s fault because he has no leverage over these conservative Senators.

It was always obvious what an absurd joke that claim was; the very idea of The Impotent, Helpless President, presiding over a vast government and party apparatus, was laughable. But now, in light of Arkansas, nobody should ever be willing to utter that again with a straight face.

Back when Lincoln was threatening to filibuster health care if it included a public option, the White House could obviously have said to her: if you don’t support a public option, not only will we not support your re-election bid, but we’ll support a primary challenger against you. Obama’s support for Lincoln did not merely help; it was arguably decisive, as The Washington Post documented today:"

[uponit7771]

52. LBJ didn't have a gerrymandered GOP congress, that's not an excuse that's facts that aren't in

... dispute.

No solutions just platitudes and a call for theatrical attitudes that don't do crap with a GOP congress that isn't putting America first

[Major Hogwash]

12. What, is that a Farside Theater reference?

"Why are you going to jump in this hole, Evil Kenevil?

"Because it's the biggest gawd damned hole in the earth and it leads to the center of the earth!"

[sabrina 1]

20. You think Bernie will appoint Republicans and Monsanto CEOs to his cabinet? Wall St execs to

Treasury? Bush appointees to Defense?

Think Bernie will try to appease the insane Repubs by offering up some of FDR's social safety nets on the table, like SS eg?

Bernie will not appease these morons. He will do what FDR did, he will go DIRECTLY to the PEOPLE every time they start their nonsense, he will fire up the people who elect him to go after them, he will NOT abandon those people as soon as he gets to the WH and tell them 'I'll take it from here'.

Bernie is a smart man. That is why he is not just running for the WH he is BUILDING A MOVEMENT and not just Democrats, he wants Repubs, Indies, non voters, Dems, Libertarians, Greens, he wants people from across the political spectrum to help him reign in those idiots.

And even I am amazed at how successful he has been so far, and how many people from all political parties and ideologies, are signing up for his Political Movement.

Obama stepped into the WH and closed the door, then he hung out with Wall St and Corporate america, and with people like Gates and Bush loyalists from the NSA.

Bernie will clean house of all those Bush hangers on, why are they still in those positions of power btw? And we the people will be helping him get it done.

[uponit7771]

46. No, I don't give a shit if he does... I care if he progresses America not if he's pure progressive

... or has to pass some silly purity test and keeps all the evil conservatives in cages.

Sanders can have an all progressive cabinet and still be ineffective seeing there's a gerrymandered GOP congress to deal with...

VERY VERY few Sanders supporters want to give details on how Sanders is going to deal with them outside of platitudes and some theatrics

[sabrina 1]

50. We know this, we KNOW he will FIGHT and if the evil Conservatives, and they ARE evil

btw, evil people lie about war and support torture among other things, like attempting to steal SS and Veterans benefits from people who earned them and keep as much as they can hoard for themselves and their buddies. I got the impression you were mocking the claim that they ARE evil.

Sanders KNOWs and so do his supporters, what it will take for him to get ANYTHING accomplished for the PEOPLE so no one is under any illusions about the takeover of our government, the buying of Politicians, or about how hard a fight it is going to be to wrestle some of what they've stolen from the people away from them.

But we sure won't be very 'effective' if we do not stand up NOW and fight them, not just to get Bernie elected, that won't do it, but every day afterwards and while we are electing him to elect actual non-owned candidates for Congress who won't take their bribes so won't be beholden to them.

That process, in case you hadn't noticed already began in two mid terms. The people will no longer support Corporate owned candidates

[uponit7771]

53. So Sanders will punch them all in the mouth!?!? NO!!! Obama "fought" conservatives and

... that never satisfied the far left...

Sanders is setting himself up to be hated by them

too

[bvar22]

54. Obama "fought" conservatives"... LOL

The first two years of his term, The Democrats OWNED the House & Senate,
and he wouldn't even fight the conservatives in his own Party.
He appointed these conservatives to positions of POWER IN the Democratic Party.

[uponit7771]

56. No they didn't "own" the house and senate, that's false on its face.. it was for 59 days due to Fran

... Franken not being in office and Obama had to deal with many blue dogs that was voted in on his coat tails.

This is winger tripe that has been front for years and it was false then and false now.

What person did you see Obama appointed in the DNC that were conservative?!

This is ridiculous

[wyldwolf]

40. absolutely true

And, mixed in with that, is the fact Sanders is unpopular with Democratic members of Congress as well.

[uponit7771]

47. Didn't know about the unpopularity, why is that? Is it because he's independent?

[Martin Eden]

9. His brother Miles is pretty funny too

I haven't met Jimmy, but Miles (a lawyer) is on old pal of one of my closest friends.

Glad to see Jimmy is doing well and knows WTF is going on!

[KeepItReal]

11. Jimmy Dore crushes it on TYT on a daily (or so) basis

He's a real gem.

[DavidDvorkin]

13. Not me

It was pretty clear in 2008 that Obama's positions were quite different from those espoused now by Sanders.

I think a lot of people voted for an imaginary Obama, the candidate the wished for, not the real Obama.

[TheKentuckian]

17. Helped along by use of open ended and neutral statements with a thin record

leaving much to the imagination. Pretty much an ink blot campaign.

[DavidDvorkin]

18. There was a lot of that

I guess I'm old and cynical enough to no longer be fooled by that technique.

[TheKentuckian]

31. It can be very effective when the audience desperately wants to believe the calvary is coming.

Also, everyone doesn't have the benefit of equal experience or having been burned.

[bvar22]

21. NO. Some of us paid attention.

It is NOT true that he made only vague or open ended promises.
He ran as a Populist on these specific promises, among others:

*Raising Taxes on the Rich

*Raising-the-Cap on Social Security

*Putting on comfortable shoes and Yadda, yadda, yadda...and walking the line.

*Immediately reform NAFTA giving protections to American Jobs

*Immediately make EFCA (Card Check) "The Law of the Land"

*Force the food industry to label our food with Country of Origin and GMO warnings

*Transparent Government with protections for Whistle Blowers

*NO mandate to BUY Health Insurance from For Profit Corporations
(Obama ridiculed and shamed Hillary at one of the debates over The Mandate,
and then explained WHY a Mandate would NOT work without a Public Option.)

....There are more...but the above are specific campaign promises,
and they are NOT "Centrist".
They are Populist,
and those, specific promises are what won my support for Obama in 2008,
and not some vague, feely thing from my imagination.

Most of us at DU pay attention TO the specifics and policy details.
I said most....not all.

BTW: I have videos in my library of all the above promises from 2008 in case you doubt my word.

[uponit7771]

26. Here here !!! out of the 1000 pledges Bernie takes he wont renege on not ONE! Wont compromise on

... shit and there wont be a tinge of nuance !!!!

well...

until there is...

[bvar22]

27. LOL.

Bernie has a 40 year record of telling the truth,
and actually fighting for the issues he says he will fight for.

Did President Obama even mention EFCA after the election?

What about the Public Option....he fight hard for that?
...as hard as he fought to get a new War On in Syria....or the TPP?


You're very funny.

[uponit7771]

28. Like he fought for single payer in VT? ... VT... not Alabama or even California... VT!!!!

[bvar22]

30. Now you are just playing the fool.

Bernie is the Senator from Vermont.
Bernie was NOT the Senator from California or Alabama.
What would you have him do in ALabama?

I DO know that during what passes for a Health Care "debate", he DID loudly and vigorously fight to expand Medicare to EVERYBODY....even Californians and Alabamans...
IIRC, Bernie introduced a bill to expand Medicare to everybody.


So, you swung hard, and missed by a mile.
I'm not surprised.

[MoveIt]

39. So you got nothing then?

except logical fallacies

[uponit7771]

45. I got irrationally high expectations of Sanders just like I had them of Obama, they fail? UNDER THE

... BUS!!!

[L0oniX]

43. It's not like he will put banksters and warhawks in his admin or make deals with big pharma.

[uponit7771]

44. Nope, he'll put people in who'll hang a bank teller if they're off a penny and people who

... will make sure to give a couple of billion to people we offend in the least kind of way cause they last guy punched everyone in the face randomly :rolleyes:

Again, the litmus being intimated by Sanders and being placed on him by his supporters is irrational

[L0oniX]

49. Oh the irony... LOL

Yeah please proceed with your rational blather:

hang a bank teller if they're off a penny

...and this blather sounds like what a repuke would say:

give a couple of billion to people we offend in the least kind of way cause they last guy punched everyone in the face randomly

Looks like you aren't worth discussing anything with. Bye

[L0oniX]

42. ^^^this^^^

[Uncle Joe]

32. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, WillyT.

[mmonk]

38. Great interview.

[L0oniX]

41. Nailed it.

[Zorra]

48. Well, at least "hoped" we were voting for. nt

[JoePhilly]

55. Ah ... so he's the new, New Messiah