Michael Dukakis...

[Drunken Irishman]

He sums up the image of a Weak Democrat. It's not fair, of course, but it's stuck. Hell, even Dukakis himself admits he should have fought back.

He should have. Had Dukakis gotten down and dirty with Bush at the start of the campaign, instead of waiting until October for a last-ditched effort, he very well could have won. But he didn't. He stayed above the fray. He spoke about the issues, played up his time as governor and wrongly believed the American people were more concerned about the issues than petty politics.

He was wrong. He was dead wrong and because of it, not only did he lose, he lost in a landslide. It cemented the Democrats' image as the party of lightweights, while the Republicans proved they could handily win pretty much any election against a party that was too afraid to fight back.

Bush was not a good candidate in '88. He didn't have the support of the party base like Reagan did in '80 & '84 and he was, like Dukakis, seen as a pretty weak guy all around - definitely not a tough talker. It's why, when the campaign initially began, Dukakis led handily. But Bush's handlers were good at framing Dukakis and attacking him on his record - taking his strength and making it his weakness. People forget that Dukakis turned Massachusetts around. Boston and the state as a whole had been ravaged by the decline of manufacturing and under Dukakis' watch, the state saw an economic boom that centered more and more around the tech industry and that came to be affectionately known as the Massachusetts Miracle.

It didn't matter. It didn't matter that Dukakis had turned around the unemployment rate from 12% to 3% by the time he ran for president. It didn't matter that personal income increased dramatically or that the state bucked the regional trend of hardship and struggle. None of that mattered. In the end, Dukakis was framed as the soft on crime, tax-and-spend liberal from that scary Taxachusetts.

It worked. His numbers plummeted and the rest is history.

For those saying Obama needs to pull back, or stay above the fray, all you have to do is look at '88 as proof of what retreat does for a campaign. Whether you like it or not, ugly politics works. Just ask every loser who didn't do enough of doubling down on something that obviously has traction.

Obama should continue hammering Romney the way Republicans have hammered Democrats all those years. Make Romney's name synonymous with Bain. When someone thinks corrupt, they should think Romney. When someone thinks flip-flopper, they should think Romney.

Dukakis and Kerry have both proven these types of politics works. You might not like it. You might fear they're overreaching - but it works.

[hedgehog]

1. I think those who most want Obama to stay above the fray are Republicans;

the rest of us are shouting "Give them hell, Barry!"

[russspeakeasy]

2. I don't read every post on this site, but I have yet to read a post

where someone suggests that Obama is "overreaching".

[Jackpine Radical]

4. But if we attack Romney we'll Look Bad.

Nobody cares about Bain. Who cares about outsourcing jobs or destroying viable companies in order to cannibalize them?

It's over-the-top to suggest that there's anything wrong with Swiss bank accounts or avoiding taxes or taking advantage of an amnesty to clear the record of your illegal activity.

The American people really want to hear about Obama's cocaine use and Rev. Wright and that fake Hawaiian birth certificate.

Hey, wouldn't Joe Arpaio be a great VP choice?

Hey, lookit--Shiny!

[MADem]

5. Mike Dukakis was, and is, NOT a "weak Democrat." He is an extremely principled man. He has strong

convictions, a genuine and unwavering sense of social justice, and a great deal of intellect and compassion.

Mike Dukakis was, and is, a polite man; a civil man; a decent man. He couldn't conceive that anyone could be such a miserable, lying fucker.

Well....now we know. We know that the opposition are a bunch of unprincipled assholes who will lie, cheat, steal and mischaracterize to win. We can't play that "above the fray" game with those types. The only way to prevent them from tossing bullshit bombs is to keep them on the defensive with brutal facts, as Obama's team is doing now, and brilliantly, too.

When they bring a knife, we have to bring a gun, as the film blurb from The Untouchables says.

I do understand and take your point about framing, but I don't buy the characterization of MD as a weak Dem--it is unfair to him. More Dems should be just like him.

[rox63]

6. What MADem said!

Mike Dukakis is a wonderful person, he was a great MA governor, and he would have been an excellent president. And he's a regular guy. Even in his elder years, you can still see him taking public transit around the Boston area, and shopping in his local grocery store. I saw him in 2006 at a rally for Deval Patrick's campaign. He wasn't there as a speaker or distinguished guest. He was there because he was a Democratic precinct captain, working to help elect Governor Patrick. He and his wife Kitty were just there with the rest of us supporters in the crowd. I was proud to shake his hand that day.

[MADem]

10. He really helped in a BIG way with Deval's election. He's a grassroots kind of guy.

I think he might still be teaching at Northeastern. I know they named something after him over there. I've seen him in town every now and again--he still looks great and he's gotta be, what, eighty or so?

[Drunken Irishman]

8. Hey, I agree...

I said as much in my post. Unfortunately, he ran a bad campaign and even he admits it. Dukakis would've been a fantastic president, IMO.

[Odin2005]

12. Perception is everything in politics. He was PERCIEVED as weak.

And therefor he was.

[NYC Liberal]

13. I remember in 2008 when he said he owed the American people an "apology" for not beating Poppy

which thus paved the way for Dim Son. Of course that's ridiculous and he is in NO WAY responsible for what the Bushes do or have done. But it shows you what kind of decent, honorable man he is.

"Look, I owe the American people an apology. If I had beaten the old man you'd of never heard of the kid and you wouldn't be in this mess. So it's all my fault and I feel that very, very strongly. So this is an important election for us. Let me tell 'ya."

-- Former Massachusetts Gov. Michael Dukakis, in an interview with CBS News.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3863160

[bigwillq]

7. I don't think gimmicks work in politics

I thought Kerry's "I'm reporting for duty.... line" was weak. His speech was great, but I don't think that line did anything for him.

My response is to the photo, not so much the text of the OP.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

9. Defining and skewering the enemy early in the campaign is the best

and then add to it coming at them from all angles with a central theme. Obama should keep up the pressure. Obama was already defined in 2008, stale stuff the Repubs will be throwing at him this year.

The businessman image of Romney is now tarnished.

[Odin2005]

11. If they rat-fuck us, then we need to rat-fuck them.

Call them every horrible thing in the book and make them deny it!