War Is Coming To The Democrats: Why Clinton vs. Sanders Is About To Getting <sic> Very Ugly - Salon

[WillyT]

War is coming to the Democrats: Why Clinton vs. Sanders is about to getting <sic> very ugly
A pro-Hillary super PAC has introduced a new level of hostility to the 2016 campaign. What's next?
Jack Mirkinson - Salon
Tuesday, Sep 15, 2015 12:30 PM PDT

<snip>

A couple of weeks ago, I wrote about how Hillary Clinton’s vow to avoid negative attacks against Bernie Sanders would evaporate if Sanders starting causing Clinton any real problems. Sanders is now sailing past Clinton in some key polls, and so the attacks have begun.

Correct the Record, a pro-Clinton group which—despite the laughable lack of information you will find about it on its website—is run in coordination with the Clinton campaign by Media Matters chief David Brock—has started going after Sanders. That’s not too surprising, but what’s notable is the way Correct the Record is doing it: by trying to link Sanders to Jeremy Corbyn, the newly elected leader of the Labour Party in Britain.

Correct the Record sent a detailed email to the Huffington Post yesterday about just how similar it thinks Sanders and Corbyn are. From the HuffPost account:

“The email, sent to a Huffington Post reporter in response to an article about Corbyn and Sanders without any agreement that it would be off the record, was meant to flag Corbyn’s “most extreme comments”…The email uses those comments to pivot to “similarities” between Corbyn and Sanders…The “similarities” between the two, according to the email, include Sanders’ introduction of legislation to terminate the United States’ nuclear weapons program, comments that NATO’s expansion into former Soviet states is dangerous because it could provoke Russia, opposition to more U.S. funds for NATO, and saying he “was concerned” that proposed new NATO members had shipped arms to Iran and North Korea.”

It must be noted that there are some fundamental differences between Sanders and Corbyn: The latter has been a truly radical activist politician and a thorn in the side of his party for decades, whereas Sanders, while a stalwart champion of progressive causes, has stayed much more resolutely within the lines of the Democratic hierarchy. Despite the email’s attempt to link them on foreign affairs, they diverge on key issues there too—especially on the question of Israel. Corbyn is a staunch pro-Palestinian, while Sanders has struck a decidedly more cautious path.

But what’s most revealing is how much the Clinton campaign’s first line of attack against Sanders reflects her hyper-hawkish foreign policy. What’s more, she’s essentially aligned herself with David Cameron’s Conservatives, who have warned that Corbyn represents a threat to national security, and with the right-wing press in Britain, who have been battering Corbyn relentlessly.

That Clinton’s instinct is to reach for the same sort of invective as Rupert Murdoch’s tabloids says quite a bit about her campaign’s values, and her own. It also gives us a good sneak preview of what’s to come if Sanders continues his unexpectedly robust challenge to her quest for the Democratic crown...

<snip>

Link: http://www.salon.com/2015/09/15/war_is_coming_to_the_democrats_why_clinton_vs_sanders_is_about_to_getting_very_ugly/

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. Obviously, you haven't got your Hillary Box of Cosmetics. K&R

[WillyT]

2. And Boy Am I Pissed...

[Fawke Em]

15. Just don't get the household cleaners confused with the perfume

once you get it or you WILL be pissed!

[abakan]

42. I love your little

Bernie. He is really cute. As for the Clinton wars, I have no doubt she and her minions will show their true colors more and more. Bernie will take the high ground and show them for the fools they are.

[Fawke Em]

78. Thanks.

That's the Reddit Bernie.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident

It's modeled from their regular logo:

[liberalmike27]

125. Hillary Shows Right-Wing Positioning

I find it interesting that suddenly Hillary finds that she and her SuperPAC feel that she needs to remind everyone of the fact that she's a right-of-center, NeoLiberal type, the type of Democrat that loves burning oil, loves shipping jobs away with poorly negotiated trade agreements that are anything but fair with American labor, and doesn't support or ever mention the actual "poor" in society.

As IF, that was the problem with her campaign. If anything, this points out exactly what her weakness is in the campaign. It clearly delineates why Bernie Sanders solid lifetime positions are the ones we want, and why we all love Sanders, and have begun to HATE this NeoLiberal wing of "Same as Republicans," Democrats.

Anyway, thanks for the confirmation of everything that is wrong with you, and everything that has been wrong with your husband, and Obama for that matter, always compromising with radical republicans, and ending up with "solutions" or "progress" that ends up being much further to the right, than a compromise with a real Democrat, like Bernie.

[passiveporcupine]

66. Maybe it's one product that is multi-purpose!

[KoKo]

182. OMG: Could I sue her if I used the "household cleaner" on my face!

Will Amazon put a special "low wage team force" in place to make sure the directions are included...just in case the contents get mixed or look alike? What about that Pink Pantsuit Emoji ....WTF is that?

[roguevalley]

17. you have to donate to get it, my dears. Just saying so. $40-$250 or more will do it

I wonder if they give you a turkey leg if you go over 250$? Just asking.

[arcane1]

4. .

[HooptieWagon]

7. ^^^^

[BuelahWitch]

26. Cosmetics?! I thought they were cooking utensils!

Dammit, I want a spatula in Pantsuit Pink!

[Ichigo Kurosaki]

32. You just reminded me of the movie UHF

[Babel_17]

98. And that reminds me of this one

[m-lekktor]

30. I thought it was household cleaning supplies!nt

[grasswire]

92. hahahahaha!

I wonder why these boxes aren't getting any ribbing from the media.

[azmom]

3. Good luck with that. People are

Sick of war. Many have not known peace in their life time.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

5. "...says quite a bit about her campaign’s values, and her own."

Yes, it does. It said a lot in '08 and it says a lot today. And it was one of the main reasons I filled in the bubble for O during the '08 primary -- I had been fairly indifferent to both candidates until the dog-whistling got started.

[ibegurpard]

24. She has none

Or if she has she doesn't want to let us know about them.

[840high]

77. Values - Hillary????

[merrily]

129. .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777603

I was already for Obama when it started. However, if I hadn't been, I would have changed at that point as well. Maybe not the first dog whistle or two, but when it got to Cuomo and Ferrara, I would have been so done.

[HooptieWagon]

6. We all knew she'd eventually go ugly,...

...because her 'vote for me, I'm republican-lite' message just wasn't going to resonate with voters in 2016. She is tone-deaf to the fact that voters are fed up with the status quo she represents.

[Betty Karlson]

116. What is different is the overwhelming majority of DU-ers rejecting her.

Back in '08, DU was pretty much split right down the middle between Obama and Hillary. This time, Clinton's supporters are outnumbered by a lot. - or at least so it seems.

[Arugula Latte]

131. She seems to have learned nothing from the last campaign...

...another reason she evokes frustration in a lot of us.

[Gore1FL]

145. ^^This^^ n/t

[restorefreedom]

8. her campaign's slimy tactics

and bernie's ability to stay above the bullshit illustrates the difference between them perfectly and is one of the main reasons why he will be the nominee and she will not. People of had enough of this bullshit.

enough is enough!
bernie 2016

[Maineman]

44. My thoughts exactly.

[Champion Jack]

59. Bingo

[99th_Monkey]

68. Nicely said. Voters' back-bones are straightening as they Feel the Bern. -nt-

[restorefreedom]

75. i think people are coming around....bern notice! nt

[99th_Monkey]

89. You saw that too.

One of Cenk's better moments.

[restorefreedom]

91. cenk was one of the first casualties of corporate m$nbc. nt

[99th_Monkey]

117. OMG. I remember that.

I'd almost forgotten, as that was awhile ago, but yep,
and then there was Dylan Raddigan (sp?) ..

He used to go on some awesome rants, as I recall.

[restorefreedom]

118. yeah, they really cleaned house

and not in a good way

[merrily]

122. Phil Donahue 2002

MSNBC program
Main article: Donahue (2002 TV series)

In July 2002,[citation needed] Phil Donahue returned to television after seven years of retirement to host a show called Donahue on MSNBC.[18] On February 25, 2003, MSNBC canceled the show.[citation needed]

Soon after the show's cancellation, an internal MSNBC memo was leaked to the press stating that Donahue should be fired because he opposed the imminent U.S. invasion of Iraq and that he would be a "difficult public face for NBC in a time of war."[19] Donahue commented in 2007 that the management of MSNBC, owned by General Electric and Microsoft, required that "we have two conservative (guests) for every liberal. I was counted as two liberals."[20]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Donahue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Donahue

[restorefreedom]

123. yes merrily he was the original trailblazer

cuz he didn't want to carry water for darth's war.

another loss for m$m

[merrily]

124. Donahue, Olbermann, Cenk, Schultz and demotion for Sharpton.

Whatever the establishment line du jour is, follow it or you're archives.

[restorefreedom]

126. and joy reid

i always thought alex wagner and toure had potential to be anti establishment, but i guess we'll never know.

[merrily]

128. I'm sorry I forgot her. She's so brilliant and amazing. I was so happy when she got her own show.

But, I've seen her on TV recently. Did they keepher on as a regular guest on other MSNBC show? Or did I see her on another network?

[restorefreedom]

134. i think they kept her

as a "special reporter" or something.

more control that way. can't give these "renegades" their own audience to speak freely, right?

[merrily]

135. Yes, the host of the show will set the message. Besides, she's been duly chastised. She knows the

score now: "Get with the program (literally) or you'll be gone entirely."

[restorefreedom]

136. sadly, i see that in rachel now too

she got the memo. ari is holding his own....for now.

[merrily]

138. I've seen it in her for quite a while. In the bargain, her style wore thin on me.

I have not been a regular viewer of MSNBC in a good while. I think the real break came in my mind when all the show hosts, including pro-union Schultz, crossed a picket line.

I don't sleep a lot, so I will watch MSNBC overnight, when it replays some of the prior day's shows, including Rachel's. I

I don't even know who ari is.

In their defense, a job like that does not grow on trees.

[restorefreedom]

146. i used to watch rachel more....

now, i almost never tune in to m$nbc. and matthews, who i liked at one time, makes me want to vomit.

ari melber was on the cycle. he is an attorney who is pretty straightfoward and seems unpartisan, other than probably being dem. he does news and such in the afternoons and sometimes subs for lawrence.

[jwirr]

133. Your last sentence discribes Chris Hayes and Rachel

to a T.

[philosslayer]

151. You know why people ultimately go negative?

Because it works.

[restorefreedom]

160. that has been the traditional conclusion

i do think in this antiestablishment "we have had enough" cycle, there may some new rules written.

[ancianita]

9. Sanders is constitutionally incapable of being ugly, but he'll damned sure tell the ugly truth about

her.

And he's damned sure not going to let her surround him with jackals.

She might use more money bullets, but if it's war she wants, all he needs is his usual dead aim.

[hifiguy]

13. I suspect that the Sanders campaign

has carefully studied the art of political jiu jitsu. And this may well be an exploding cigar Camp Weathervane willingly smokes, much to their eventual regret.

[ancianita]

14. I love your optimism.

[hifiguy]

16. It's only optimism in part.

The tone-deafness of HRH and her campaign staff of left-handed football bats is mind-boggling. I think they could foul up a two-car funeral on a one-way street even if they were spotted the hearse.

She seems to be tuned to the political landscape that existed when Bill left the WH.

She simply doesn't get it.

[SoapBox]

21. hifiguy...

Boy are you correct...tone deaf.

That campaign is a mess...and I hope they stay that way.

Hey Hill...we're all waiting for your next "vow"!

[merrily]

139. "We were dead broke when we left the White House." Tone deaf attempt to respond to rising populism.

So was hiring over 200 advisors to help her address the rising populism without "scaring" the wealthy.

[A Simple Game]

60. Hillary won't make it to the first primary if Biden gets into the race. n/t

[roguevalley]

18. This is so well planned, his campaign, that I have great faith in him prevailing. After all,

he has been called a commie all his life. He knows how to hand that back and his lazer focus is key to his success. He gathers amazing individuals both by hiring them and having them flock with their optimism and great talents to assist his ascent. He also has our love. She doesn't. Ever. Never. Ad infinitum. This shit is so low I don't think I can even look at her anymore. This is the last Clinton straw for me. My state got oil from Venezuala for the bush because people were freezing. Fuck this if that's a crime.

[Volaris]

33. I cannot believe she isn't smart enough to know this wouldn't backfire...

Either she approves (which calls into question her political intelligence), or she doesnt, will claim ignorance of the planning and execution of this attack and denounce it immediately as the politics of the past that people don't want anymore, and she understands why.

SOMEONE was dumb enough to let themselves get baited into this. That person needs to be fired and then left out for The Public to have Their Way with.

If shes the frontrunner, if she's the 'incumbent', NEVER PUNCH DOWN. People don't like it when you kick the underdog.

[AgingAmerican]

155. I believe at this point

that they are throwing turds at the wall trying to make something stick. She tried taking his positions. Folks didn't buy it. Now she is going 'moderate' whatever that means, and attacking him from the right.

Instant backfire. What next?

[Volaris]

159. I don't work for her campaign

But if I did, what's next would be one big-ass mea culpa along the lines of:

In the past, being a liberal was pretty politically dangerous in DC land. Doesn't mean I wasn't one, but we had to be careful picking our battles. Also, taking wall streets campaign money WAS the only way to stay compete THEN, and thank god that seems like it might be changing. I played the game to the best of my ability, and by all accounts played it WELL. I understand that there's a new game coming. I like bernie, I agree with him and I'm glad he's on Team Dem. But I want a shot at playing the NEW game in town, because I bet I'd be pretty damn good at it.
She's been accused of being a political animal through and through ( all of the usual bad ways). I dont blame her for that, that was the Game she taught herself to play. I want to see how that's going to be a good thing for American Liberalism, instead of just a good thing for Hillary.
THAT would sell me
=)

[6chars]

85. His Super-PAC could go very ugly

If he had one.

[PATRICK]

10. To most US voters

comparing Sanders to Corbyn in the first place is obtuse. It's Israel more than England that is a campaign issue and despite the heady enthusiasm of Foggy Bottom to take on Putin there are not many other issues the vast majority of voters care that much about, especially if they veer toward war, fear, economic ruin. Perhaps the attempt at all costs to avoid homeland bread and butter issues is inspiring these weak attempts to claim the foreign policy crown, but there is not much at present to excite voters about our successes or responsibilities or fears in any camp.

An attack is an attack. The media doesn't have to coordinate ITS efforts with the PACs, but it does to the detriment of course of our endangered, corruption-riddled democracy. I don't fault Hillary for projecting power this way- if it is the best she can do.

[Doctor_J]

11. Clinton will get ugly. Bernie will not

[hifiguy]

12. Revolting, but entirely expected.

The truthlessness and ruthlessness of the Clintons is suficiently documented to fill several library bookshelves.

The final proof that she's nothing but a Turd Way lapdog of the banks and the MIC.

[MisterP]

19. she's about to run on invading Syria and Iran? good luck with that

Sanders will just talk past her campaign and damn any invasion of Syria+Iran, or siding with IS, or setting up PMOI and then fighting that

[noiretextatique]

20. getting ugly?! it's been ugly

the hysterical hyperbole, the ridiculous accusations, and the complete lack of honesty and/or integrity...all right here on DU.

[SoapBox]

22. Ditto that!

[merrily]

121. Sing it!

[erronis]

23. Be careful. Remember the negative psychology tricks to convince you that something is one way

But is the other.

Always doubt the provenance of anything said on any social media site. Many of you "know" the other posters and trust them. Not all of us are so knowledgeable and we may also be more accepting of spouted wisdoms.

The "psyops" work hard to mask their intentions and may start false-flag discussions to divert attention.

Just be aware that all comments/responses are not up front and honest.

May the best Democrat win!

[Skwmom]

25. They cited a poll today about how a majority approve use of military, etc. It was on MSNBC

I think. Can't find it on line.

[PatrynXX]

27. I saw that. I ignored it as more Conservative BS

face palm. okay fine make it extremely obvious Hillary is a very red Conservative smh how does that help anything

[jfern]

28. The Hillary campaign is definitely taking the low road

With using the WSJ to lie about single payer.

[Jester Messiah]

150. I don't think the high road even shows up on their GPS. [nt]

[elleng]

29. Sounds pretty silly to me,

talking about Senator Sanders and bring in a new name entirely, from a different party/country/continent. CONFUSING at best.

[fredamae]

31. Clinton will do more harm to

herself in the long run.
And yeah-whatever on the "not coordinating" bs. I think it has been clearly illustrated just exactly how that works by now,

[Lorien]

99. Indeed. Her campaign continues to make all the same

bluders that it made in 2008, and that Kerry made before her. Running to the right, avoiding direct answers to direct questions, behaving as if she's entitled to the Presidency and doesn't have to work for it, being entirely dismissive of the Left. Listening to professional image makers instead of the people. It won't end well for her.

[Arugula Latte]

132. I get the sense they thought Obama was a fluke, and they could go back to the old ways

that they're so comfortable with. Well, it ain't the 90s anymore, Hil. People aren't buying what you're selling.

[peacebird]

34. This is not going to go well for Hillary. Bad form, yet again.

[HereSince1628]

37. I -try- to lean to rational understanding, and to Sanders, help me understand why you think that...

historically, negative campaigning has been effective in the past, why would using it go less than well for H>

[peacebird]

51. Because turning off Sanders supporters by slinging mud is not a way to get their vote should she

Manage to get the nomination.

More to point, there is a large online coalition of Sanders supporters, mostly young, who are VERY turned off by politics as usual and negative ads.

But I understand, going negative is second nature to old time politicos (except Bernie, who has NEVER run a ngative ad), she tried it against Obama and it backfired on her there too. Some people are slow learners. Too bad, so sad for Hillary.

[HereSince1628]

56. Of course, the 3rd way/DLC dems are pretty open about saying the left has no where to go

They promote and hide behind the meme that every republican candidate is worse that any democrat.

To me, this shows another example of a personality trait of Hillary Clinton. She acts like Saul on Breaking Bad, and legal types I was raised to consider schister lawyers... she uses the law to expose loopholes and exploit them. This testing of the envelope is what leads to much of her trouble needing to fend off scandals...she behaves in ways that look bad.

In this case, Super pacs have been banned for a long time from coordinating with campaigns--It's the thing that led to all the John Doe investigations of Scott Walker-- and the Clinton campaign has come up with a work around and is happy to tell us it's doing what is broadly seen as criminal.

[Historic NY]

79. Sorry most of the Sanders support won't vote for her anyway

so what does that matter....its like ones that are suddenly here on DU they will be gone well before Super Tuesday. As Bernie himself said most of his supporters aren't Democrats. I believe him because he isn't either.

[peacebird]

80. I am a Dem, and have voted as such since 1975. However I WILL vote for Bernie, but NOT for Hillary

Not even in the general. She considers Kissinger a friend??? She supports fracking. No way I will vote for her.

[merrily]

142. You pulled that right from your ear. A few DUers does not = most of the Sanders supporters.

[McKim]

157. Mud? Corbyn is Gold to Me: Corbyn? Bring it On!

Poor Hillary what she doesn't realize is that Corbyn is well respected here by the Left. What an idiotic "attack". Corbyn, Oh the Horror!

[Scootaloo]

90. She lost the last primary she ran in. And she lost it without any semblance of grace.

THis time around, the shit-slinging has been launched before even the first debate. That reeks of a desperate attempt to just stay above water.

If this is how the Clinton campaign is going to run, it won't last til March.

[HereSince1628]

93. I agree about 2008, I am not sure she's at the point of desperation...yet.

But I think she's feeling threatened by a message that isn't working and by all the talk of Plan B.

Bidens ride up the polls on the hot air of all the Plan B talk, is strategically bad because a three-way contest lowers the threshold for winning a plurality of elected delegates.

The tough part is that there is not much day-light between Clinton and Biden and opening that up would likely require her to drive a wedge between herself and Obama. Such a wedge would probably cost her a lot of AA voters. That's what's known as a Hobbs' choice.

[Scootaloo]

104. I hope Biden doesn't jump in

Even though I agree, it would be to Clinton's cost.

Biden simply has no chance of winning. First off, as you say there is no useful difference between him and Clinton on anything whatsoever. He won't pull the Left; Bernie has us locked down, with O'Malley being our "option B"

Second, because he's the Vice President, he'll actually have to run against Obama. That's not gonna go well with anyone - including Biden himself, I'm sure.

And he'd be a late entry. everyone else has grown their roots in, and he's just sort of coasting in in his trans-Am or something.

If Biden jumps in, he's going to burn a lot of money, a lot of effort and emotion, and sadly a lot of goodwill.

[HereSince1628]

106. Biden is 'married' to Obama's presidency there isn't divorce from that.

I don't see coming in late as a problem with voters. He's well known. The bigger problem would be money he'd compete heavily with Clinton's sources.

[merrily]

143. If Biden went in with at least the tacit blessing of the other party PTB, I think donors would

flock to him like bees to heirloom roses.

[HereSince1628]

170. Re the powers that be... the Clinton family be a lot of that power.

I can't see H> letting that go without a fight or one helluva a buyout.

[merrily]

171. Yes, they are, but that did not entirely do the trick in 2008. Reid, Daschle, etc.

persuaded Obama to run. They thought she had too much baggage. With her unfavorabilities going up and losing ground even on the women's vote, the signs are not good for the general. I think her match ups are dicey, too. They are not going to settle for President Trump or President Sanders without a fight.

As far as a buyout, that might tempt Joe, but can it match up for him against the Presidency? Besides, even at this point, his speaking fees aren't going to be too shabby.

[HereSince1628]

172. What I meant to suggest is H> would have to be bought out, not Biden

As it is, Biden's decision making has gone on to long to sustain poll participants enthusiasm for the idea of a Biden presidency. His polling numbers are falling back.

Clinton worked many years putting all the infrastructure in place to support her dominance. Although she's sinking in the polls, much of the infrastructure is intact, grand pooh-bahs of the Party not withstanding.

We're just beginning to see the opposition surrogates attempt to leave permanent scars on Sanders.

[merrily]

173. I don't think Biden is decision making. He's campaigning. We can see that.

Behind the scenes, he's probably conferring with donors and super delegates to see what's what. If he thinks he has a shot, he'll go for it. JMO.

[HereSince1628]

175. He's fishing around looking for support but the poll responders are moving away just like earlier

this year.

Biden talk bumps him up a bit in the polls and then he doesn't act and it fades.

The good news for Biden supporters is he's got to make a decision in time for getting his name printed on primary ballots.
Those deadlines start blossoming mid November

[merrily]

178. I think his poll numbers will drop further after he announces.

Right now, he's a Vice President in a popular (relatively) administration whose sign recently died, after asking him to run for President. Once he becomes Candidate Biden, everything changes.

[HereSince1628]

180. I think that's true.

Especially since distinguishing herself from Biden really is pretty hard to do, and would involve running against Obama/Biden.

As it is, she doesn't have to run against Obama, and so has no risk of offending many AA's. Sanders can be marginalized as an "anti-military socialist Jew"


.

[merrily]

181. I meant his numbers, but, yes, hers too. She'll run against Obama if she gets to the general; she'll

do her best to avoid that in the primary. I think if she could marginalize Sanders he'd be marginalized already.

[Lorien]

97. We really don't have to "fight back" at all

She's doing a great job of ruining her chances all on her own.

[merrily]

140. .

Americans don't like negative campaigning but....they sometimes reward it.

Bill Clinton

The more her numbers went down in 2008, the more clear the dog whistles became. I predict we ain't seen nutthin' yet.

[Ron Green]

35. I've finally got to say this:

If she knows about these attacks, and does not decry them, Hillary Clinton is a nasty piece of work.

[in_cog_ni_to]

43. She absolutely knows about them.

She'll do ANYTHING to win...just like her supporters. They've been posting RW crap all day. They're following her lead.

[hifiguy]

46. Any Clinton has only one core principal:

Self advancement by any means necessary, fair or foul. Their ruthlessness and truthlessness is a matter of historical record. Much like this fellow's, to whom her resemblances grow stronger every day:

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. TRUTH.

:thumbs up:

[m-lekktor]

54. I agree! nt

[Ino]

71. Tricky Hilly...

[hifiguy]

73. OK, that actually made me LOL. DUzy!

[Lorien]

100. Bingo!

Exactly this!

[merrily]

141. I really, really want to be the first woman President seems to be the theme.

[Aerows]

177. While Bernie's theme seems to be

I really, really want to be an honest President.

[merrily]

179. I see his theme as These things must be done and no one else seems willing to do them.

I don't think he ever wanted to be President or he would have run before this.

[GoneFishin]

36. This slimy dirtbag behavior is exactly what I expected from her. She did not disappoint.

[Ferd Berfel]

38. Bernie simply has more Class

[Iwillnevergiveup]

39. Good find, WillyT n/t

[in_cog_ni_to]

40. Our younger generations aren't going to buy her shit slinging.

They know policy and they know Bernie. They trust Bernie and they do NOT trust warmonger, wall street Hillary. OWS? HELLO!

They also happen to want a clean planet and Hillary's support of the TPP, XL PIPELINE and FRACKING loses her the Millennial vote. They're also sick of wars!

Let her sling her shit. She'll bury herself in it.

[Eleanors38]

41. Ah, Mediamatters. Another centrist gun-prohibitionist agitprop outlet.

You can expect that outfit to bring up the gunz, gunz, gunz issue repeatedly.

[merrily]

127. MM founder and PACer Brock thinks it's a weapon against a man

who got an F and a D-rating from the NRA. So, he'll harp on it, much like many DUers of late.

Soooo transparent.

They spend years telling us not to be purists or one issue voters, but as soon as it's not a DLC/DNC candidate, we're supposed to be purists and one issue voters.

I'm so confused.

[Eleanors38]

162. It puzzles me how/why Brock was in posession of 400k (from Joyce Fnd) which...

necessitated arming (under or in violation of D.C. law) a MM employee to serve as a bodyguard in the first place. Does Joyce use cash?

[merrily]

166. I don't know. Reading Brock's wiki is very puzzling.

[Ned Flanders]

45. lol, defending Hillary against baseless attacks

According to Correct the Record's website, they were formed to be "a strategic research and rapid response team designed to defend Hillary Clinton from baseless attacks."

Oh, the irony.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

55. That is funny as all get out. nt

[merrily]

144. Even funnier: read his wiki.

[jfern]

64. They are such liars

"Defend Hillary Clinton from baseless attacks" means create baseless attacks against Sanders.

[Maineman]

48. That clinches it for me: I will not vote for Hillary if she happens to get the nomination, which

I doubt will happen.

[MerryBlooms]

52. If she secures the nomination and you disavow her here in print, you'll be banned per the TOS.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

[A Simple Game]

58. Add me to your list, I have been saying I will not vote for her for months. n/t

[MerryBlooms]

62. I've seen posts about making a list

it's going to get ugly.

[jfern]

65. Ditto here

If Hillary gets the nomination, put me on the ban list for not voting for her losing campaign.

[ancianita]

67. Guys. Let's not go down that road.

No one is a true Bernie supporter or Democrat to think say stuff like that when we haven't even hit the stretch.

Just step away and get a grip. Things are going to play out worse before the general and we need people who'll stay as calm as Bernie does. You can't win for the party by footstomping during the primaries.

[A Simple Game]

87. I'm sorry if I gave the impression I'm excited, well I am excited about Bernie,

but as far as not voting for Hillary? I'm as calm as can be. That decision was made long before this election cycle and she can probably do nothing to change it.

If anyone thinks banning from DU or being chastised be anyone will scare me into saying I will vote for her, they don't know me very well. Little on the internet scare me nor do I take anything on the internet personally. I know no one on DU personally and DU for all the hype is just a web site, there are a million more.

Now it's not all bad, I will soon become a member of the Democratic party again though probably only long enough to vote for Bernie in the primary. But who knows, if Bernie wins the nomination and the Presidency he will be the leader of the Democratic party and I may stay on for a while. Other than that I don't vote for a party, I vote for a person.

[ancianita]

107. Say she makes it past Bernie. Seriously, who would be the best person?

[jeff47]

120. "None of the above". (nt)

[jeff47]

82. Uh, no. And you've been here long enough to know better.

The way that is enacted is you can't advocate for voting against Democrats in the "election window". You can actually vote for whomever you want.

[restorefreedom]

112. glad someone pointed that out

we are free to vote any way we like. it sounds like once the conventions are over, we cant use du to try and convince someone not to vote for the dem nominee

if they make a list of non hillary voters and ban us because of something we said about our vote before the nom is complete, du will be a much quiter place imo

[fbc]

49. It's Hillary "Rezko" Clinton so it's only going to get uglier

[Gman]

50. Is Sanders' counter strategy

To whine that he's getting bullied? Or is it just his supporters?

[ibegurpard]

61. I think you mistake whining

For knocking someone's teeth out who slaps you. There will be no whining.

[Lorien]

101. Ha!

Yep!

[Fawke Em]

81. Nope.

This is his strategy:

I don’t have a Super PAC, Fawke Em. I am not going to travel around the country begging millionaires and billionaires for money. That’s just not going to happen.

But the success of our campaign certainly has the billionaires' attention.

Yesterday, one of Hillary Clinton’s most prominent Super PACs attacked our campaign pretty viciously. They suggested I’d be friendly with Middle East terrorist organizations, and even tried to link me to a dead communist dictator.

It was the kind of onslaught I expected to see from the Koch Brothers or Sheldon Adelson, and it’s the second time a billionaire Super PAC has tried to stop the momentum of the political revolution we’re building together.

They’ll keep trying … unless we make them pay a price for their attacks.

Make the Super PACs pay for attacking us by making a $3 contribution to our campaign today. Let’s send a powerful message that we have had ENOUGH of the billionaire class buying elections.

If we stand together to fight back against these ugly attacks, we can ensure this election is about who has the best ideas, and not who has the biggest donors.

They should not underestimate us

Bernie Sanders

And these folks:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident

And all the people on social media who have been "berning" all Faux News-loving shitheads who've been posting BS all day with facts.

[frylock]

110. There's an entire sub-forum dedicated to whining and meta..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1107

[Gman]

115. LOL!

[Renew Deal]

53. National security will be a major issue in 2016 and Hillary cannot afford to look weak or dovish.

So it is in Hillary's best interest to not give ground on those issues. She is at greater risk of losing by being a dove in the general election than by being a hawk in the primary.

[99th_Monkey]

69. A chameleon can only turn different colors so many times

before voters begin to notice.

And I think this horse has Left the barn.

[hifiguy]

72. Left the barn?

That horse is two or three jurisdictions away by now.

[99th_Monkey]

74. I stand corrected.

[malthaussen]

161. I think this chameleon's problem is that the carpet is plaid. n/t

[LondonReign2]

94. Right, better to support the wrong thing than "risk looking weak"

I've seen this excuse numerous times here for Clinton's Iraq vote. See, she had to vote with Bush to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9-11 resulting in the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and $3T wasted, or she would risk looking weak.

Political calculus of the vilest sort.

[Lorien]

102. Hey, what's a million dead civilians, over 4k dead troops, and 3 Trillon

dollars when her personal political ambitions are on the line?

Priorities.

[frylock]

111. Yeah, because that's what all the kids say they care about

[dicksmc3]

57. Hillary must respond

If Hillary let's this Brock e-mail go without a response she will kiss her ass good bye in this election just like the last.
Her response should include an apology and a promise as Bernie has, to NOT USE NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING!
Also the jerk Brock should be told to shut the fuck up!! He's hurting Hillary and no one else.

[Sunlei]

63. Salon tries to start a war.

"we have differences" said Senator Sanders.

I'd much rather have D candidates continue to state their differences and exactly what they will do soon as they take office, then have some media declare an ugly 'war'.

smearing, and birther type crap is way to republican for me.

[99th_Monkey]

70. I don't think -- by reporting this accurately -- Salon is "starting a war"

It's called reporting, and this report is -- if accurate -- very telling, in many ways.

To know this as a reporter and make a point of NOT reporting is, would be tantamount
to self-censorship.

[Sunlei]

76. yes, Tabloid has to work on the headlines to get the words sanders, clinton and Ugly War

linked together better.

Maybe a quote from each of the actual candidates would help. A real 'reporter' would contact them.

[99th_Monkey]

88. Since when is Salon a "tabloid"? Oh snap! never mind. I know

it's the minute Salon publishes something Hillary people would rather not
see in print anywhere.

[jeff47]

83. That messenger must be slaughtered!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (nt)

[Sunlei]

84. no violence just remove the extra words the tabloid added, like war, ugly

[jeff47]

86. And attacking Sanders for preventing poor people from freezing to death

is not ugly?

Methinks you need to calibrate your "ugly" meter.

[Sunlei]

114. I love Senator Sanders, we all need to listen to him.

[merrily]

130. I served on a jury this morning where the alert was based solely on a link to an alleged rw source.

Trying for a hide, not on the falsity of the statement, mind you, just, purely, as you say, on the messenger.

Whatever happened to just posting, "That's a right wing source" and allowing discussion of content?

And the alerter didn't even bother to provide any proof that the source was in fact right wing. I guess jurors are presumed to know every website on the internet or just take an anonymous alerter's word.

Unreal.

[Lorien]

95. For someone who has spent a lifetime in politics

she sure does have lousy political instincts! This will backfire on her horribly.


I ran into one of her trolls today on FB. The young woman used every Fox "news" talking point against Sanders and Democratic Socialism that she could dig up. Her insults and projection of "nastiness" were classically right wing. I was surprised that she couldn't see that what she was doing was only harming her candidate.

[WillyT]

96. That's An Increasinly Alarming Problem...

[HooptieWagon]

103. The PUMAs have come out of hibernation.

[portlander23]

105. dark money

[WillyT]

109. Yep...

[grahamhgreen]

108. Nah. They both play well with others.

[MrMickeysMom]

113. Big UGLY K&R for UglyVision...

It's what desperate PUMA eat their dinner by

[Android3.14]

119. She'll destroy the country in order to win

We know what you stand for, Hillary. Please sit down.

[hifiguy]

169. As I have repeatedly noted,

the resemblances between HRH and Richard Nixon grow more apparent each day.

When your only principal is personal advancement at any costs, there's only one road there travel, andit was paved by Richard M. Nixon.

[L0oniX]

137. So she by remote control is saying Bernie is not a warhawk. More reason to vote for Bernie.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

147. I suppose next Hillary will go on "Fox and Friends" to show her legs and talk about bombing Iran.

[november3rd]

148. Freedom

Freedom is coming, freedom is coming, yes I know. Oh yes I know.

[d_legendary1]

149. Its starting to look like 2008 all over again

for HRC. Wonder if she'll start calling Sanders an elitist just like she did Obama.

[ibegurpard]

152. Oh that's already started

Doncha know that Sanders support consists of a bunch of Volvo-driving latte-sippers?

[d_legendary1]

154. I thought Sanders supporters wanted free shit

like unicorns, fairies, and bundt cake. At least that's what a few malcontents keep posting anyways.

[bowens43]

153. There was never any doubtt that Hillary would use ugly tactics...that's how she rolls.

The only thing Hillary cares about is Hillary and there is no tactic so vile that she won't employ it to get what she feels entitled to...

[emsimon33]

165. If you are merely a puppet of the power elite

Then all you have is deflection because you are actually like the emperor with no clothes.

[billhicks76]

156. Clintons Are Not Good For Our Party

They should all do us a favor and fade into obscurity. Go give your expensive speeches and let us climb out of the status quo without their boot on our necks.

[Keep-Left]

158. Well Sanders needs to be able to handle the attacks if he wants the office

Part of the primary is to be tested. You don't think Republicans will come at him with all guns blazing.

I personally like the idea of Hillary or anyone playing hardball. I want someone who will fight for it and I know will fight back at the Republican attacks.

Did we all forget how Kerry didn't fight back with the swift boat adds?

[emsimon33]

164. It is good practice for the general election for Bernie

With the Hillary people throwing mud now, by the general election Republican mud against Bernie will be ho hum. Like moneys in the zoo, the Hillary machine will be great at throwing its own poop at any threat, but it is their own poop and all Bernie has to do is duck and tell the truth.

[KoKo]

174. Bernie can Deal with Donald Trump....Both are New Yawkers

They Know How to FIGHT!

My odds are on Bernie because he has "Truth to Power" on His Side. Trump has Braggadocio and Entitlement....which isn't exactly what most of us "Commoners" are excited about at this point in our lives given what we've been put through in the last Decades with the "Boom/Bust" philosophy of Wall Street and Corporate Military Industrial Control of our Lives from Birth to Death.

Our Children and Grandchildren and our Very Lives are at Stake Here!

Feel the Bern!

[emsimon33]

163. Tell me again why we want this craven woman for president?

[imthevicar]

167. This will not end well for Ms. Clinton!

[Javaman]

168. polics 101: when bereft of substance, attack. nt

[Aerows]

176. Thanks for the link! n/t