And the propaganda against Sanders and his supporters continues

[Skwmom]

Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2015, 02:11 PM - Edit history (10)

noun: propaganda; derogatory information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view

“I feel like they need a job. They need to enjoy America’s workforce rather than spending their time in the middle of the day doing nothing,” said one young woman, who asked not to be named. (His supporters are lazy and that's why he's getting all those big crowds, it's lazy people with nothing else to do, they want all these free handouts - ignore all the hardworking people supporting Sanders). So now people on the street are unnamed sources?

When it was pointed out that she herself was spending her time in the middle of the day doing nothing, she clarified that she works “six days a week”. (People who work hard support other candidates. I wonder if she supported the candidate that can take in more than quarter of a million for a speech).

Pelgrift, 44, is an Italian citizen and not actually eligible to vote in the US. (An illegal immigrant??)

don't take off your button, even in the shower - Think how embarrassed you would be if people were looking at you in the shower and you didn’t have your Bernie button.” (You don't want to be embarrassed when people look at you for *gasp" being a Bernie supporter, do you? Plus, I can talk stupidly to Bernie supporters, b/c well, they are stupid.. believing that our government should work for the people)

The shtick certainly seemed to be working, with buttons being handed out like candy ( like handing out candy to a baby - easy to dupe and looking for a handout)

perform “some semi-funny shtick” to convince people to hand over their money. (must be how Bernie is getting people to hand over money, his shtick)

A “Bernie 2016”-branded Tesla Model S (Still can't figure out how a guy that closed his business and went back to school can afford to do this but hey it supports the only "rich white liberals" supports Bernie false argument).

The man himself did not disappoint his followers, (not supporters but followers like cult followers).

“Plus,” the balding Weiss said, “I like his hair.” (Don't forget that wild hair. I've always wondered who made up the hair and fringe candidate image. Bernie even had to address the fringe candidate meme.)

I didn't point out everything.

And the propaganda continues.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/18/bernie-sanders-late-show-stephen-colbert-taping-crowd

If you support Bernie, you need to call out this kind of b.s.

Update: If this was the only thing I had read over the past few weeks, I would have just shrugged it off. But I am sick and tired of the continued assault against Bernie Supporters in order to paint them in a negative light. We have been ridiculed and called despicable things which I will not repeat. While there's more than one motive for this, trying to paint Bernie supporters as an undesirable group to belong to is definitely one of them.

The problem with this strategy, people can reach the point where not only will they say no to voting for your candidate, but h*** will freeze over before I vote for your candidate. And no amount of endorsement from Bernie will change that decision because contrary to your accusations, we are not cult followers. I view a political cult follower as someone that supports a candidate no matter what they do or how morally bankrupt they are. That does not describe Bernie Sanders.

[sabrina 1]

1. Actually I think this is a good sign. It shows how hard it is for them to attack Bernie on

his long incredible record, on Civil Rights, on Women's Rights, on Gay Rights, their three 'go to' issues for elections, mostly forgotten once elections are over, not so with Bernie.

His record on the Environment, on War and Peace, on just about every single issue that is important to the American people is practically unassailable.

So we noticed over the past month or so, some 'genius' in some Corporate Funded Think Tank came up with the notion that attacking his supporters was the way to go.

But like all their other attempts it merely got him MORE supporters.

This is how all that Dark Money is spent, on negative campaigning to STOP any candidate is a threat to the 1% who have spent so long setting this country up for their own interests.

But people are far more aware now of how this works and it is becoming more and more difficult for them to influence voters, see David Brocks latest attempt a smear campaign eg.

[GoneFishin]

5. "... the 1% who have spent so long setting this country up for their own interests." I believe

if the 1% lose serious ground in 2016 they will fight desperately to bottle-neck information on the internet. The internet is the key to Bernie's surge. Neither the M$M media nor snail mail would have worked.

[Skwmom]

9. It is but the internet can also be used to spread lies and distortion. n/t

[sabrina 1]

34. Sure it can, but it can also be used, as it was this week, to decimate those lies.

When all we had was the media, we had no opportunity to do that. The playing field was skewed totally towards the smearmongers. Now we have a way to be a part of the conversation and to USE their lies and deceptions against them. Again see what happened to Brock this week.

[Skwmom]

43. One small example. It is still skewed to the smear mongers UNLESS people learn to question

rather than accept at face value what is put before them.

[Skwmom]

6. Not everyone is aware of how smears are propagated by the media.

One short article said Bernie "scurried". Not that Bernie hurried but that he scurried. Hmm.. when people think of scurried they think of rat.

Journalistic integrity has gone by the way side.

[sabrina 1]

12. True, but a whole lot more people know today how they operate than

they did even a decade ago. And smears like that are often addressed as soon as they appear along with exposures of where they are coming from.

The MSM isn't where most young people go to get their news and it is much more difficult for them to do this on the internet, because when they do, unlike TV, people can go directly to them and let them know what they think of their dishonesty.

See what happened to Brock this week, eg. There was an instant response to his garbage, not just on his own site, but in donations to Bernie Sanders.

Brock is a perfect example of this kind of smear campaign, only when he started out, we did NOT know where it was coming from and could not respond as effectively as we can now.

Think about the Brock incident as an example. By the end of the day of his 'big revelations' re Bernie, NO ONE was talking about them, they were talking about Brock and how THIS is what is destroying our system of government. Dark Money, unidentified billionaires funding these kinds of smear campaigns, EVERYTHING Bernie has been talking about.

In fact it actually helped EMPHASIZE what he is talking about. And ended up benefiting HIM.

This kind of response wasn't possible a decade or so ago. See Dean and Kerry eg.

And we know they will not give up and will try to contol THIS they way they control the Corp Media.

But when they do it again, the response will be as strong if not stronger than it was this time and it will only HURT THEIR candidate as hundreds of thousands of volunteers all over Social Media USE it to demonstrate all that is wrong with the system they hi-jacked.

[KoKo]

27. ...1

[Skwmom]

40. So you think propaganda hasn't branched out to the new forms of media? It has

and that is what is so disturbing.

[MisterP]

52. I think the argument here is about the same thing--that we have a new *arena* of political fighting

for both sides: so it's great for whispering campaigns and for spreading easy-to-understand charts and graphs; and since not everyone wants to get in a fight online comment sections easily self-separate, so the echo-chamber effect can reach Khmer Rouge proportions

but what makes Sanders unique regarding the internet isn't that he's "the social-media candidate": heck, so was Paul! but people have been debunking GOP poop with Sanders videos on YouTube since 2001 and I was mentioning him to whoever I could for nearly a decade--not just because of his points but because of his different view of politics: he didn't just say "support bill X" or "vote candidate N" but showed what the country needed, how politics and the economy operated, and how that operation was wrecking things for 99.9% of us who weren't betting big on bubbles or their bursting; your asshole uncle will shake his fist and say "they're all the same" and then you send him a CSPAN video about why there's such inescapable synchrony between 80% of reps; your asshole uncle loves his Medicare and SS and tax breaks: the Pubs machine-gun "overlarge tax codes" and the Dems loot the lockbox; Sanders points out the whole webwork

and THAT'S what the internet provides

[retrowire]

31. Yep

their slings can only have the elementary substance of a playground bully.

and as a Bernie supporter, I am of a much higher grade of intelligence, being able to see this kind of quibble for what it is.

[Hortensis]

2. Well, it's been pinkie-wetting so far, and the pinkie has to find the water.

The right is giving Bernie a free ride so far, hoping he'll take out their nemesis Hillary. Of course, they did the same with Obama. But the entire hostile right, billionaires, radio hosts, half the people you work with, and your favorite waitress, will come at Bernie with incredible viciousness and unending lies if they think he can beat their candidate.

And they'd attack his supporters, of course, but by then I predict they'd be a lot more scared of them than dismissive.

[Ron Green]

4. Hillary is a nemesis only to the dumbass, Culture War right.

Last edited Sat Sep 19, 2015, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

To the 1% Ruling Class right, she's as acceptable as almost any Republican.

Bernie is the real danger to the rulers.

[Hortensis]

24. Well, if Bernie wins the primary he certainly be a much bigger nemesis.

However, Bernie's and Hillary's positions on current issues overlap very strongly, although hers are usually being quarter-ass versions, at best, of the profound reform he calls for.

The GOP positions have NO OVERLAP with those of Bernie and Hillary.
The GOP candidates actively oppose everything Bernie and Hillary want to achieve.
The GOP candidates promise to destroy all gains made under Obama's presidency.

The GOP is the party of the very wealthy, who are also almost entirely white male, and of everyone who likes today's status quo just fine. Every dollar tossed at Hillary is just bet-hedging.

[GoneFishin]

3. Yep. Ya got me. Totally nailed me.

Yep. being politically well informed is a well known side effect of being lazy and stupid.

[Babel_17]

7. They're just getting warmed up, but like comics that bomb ....

They're just getting warmed up, but like comics that bomb with their first joke, they're finding the audience primed to mock them.

David (Blinded by the Right) Brock is their headlining performer, and he bombed. He also did the equivalent of trying to bribe the reviewer from Variety, and got exposed doing it.

So their smear campaign and negative advertising has already been framed for the embarrassment to our party's principles that it is. They'll keep at it, and it will reinforce that impression.

[Skwmom]

8. But it's important to point it out when you see it. n/t

[Babel_17]

10. Absolutely! And build on the framing for it that exists. (nt)

[SonderWoman]

11. Oh no someone somewhere said a mean thing about Bernie!

They should keep it classy like Bernie supporters do to Hillary! Oh wait...

Smear campaign: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251458059

[Skwmom]

13. That was a really telling moment......

[DanTex]

19. Indeed it was. The right and the far left coming together to attack BLM.

[Skwmom]

21. I'm to tell the Black Americans who spoke out against what transpired

that they should shut up and sit down because team Clinton demands it? Really?

[DanTex]

22. Hey, if you want to keep lecturing Black Americans, knock yourself out.

It's obviously worked out great so far.

[Skwmom]

32. Like when Clinton lectured and pointed her finger at BLM?

The whole thing seemed rather condescending but she does have her concerns.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/06/24/can-clinton-step-forward-on-race-without-leaving-white-voters-behind/

Of course, they are trying to make sure that Bernie has that problem. I just love the big Bernie Group of unnamed individuals who came together because they wanted to "support" Bernie.

You know, there is such a thing as blow back. Using race for political dirty games is reprehensible.

[Pope Sweet Jesus]

48. Seeing that Bernie met with the leaders of BLM earlier this week

and they came out very impressed with Bernie.

[zeemike]

37. That's it, divide us up...it always works.

The "far left" from the left because the "far left" is helping the right...and they are white so are against black...(and we all know there are no "far left" black people. They all love Hillary)

And so it goes, and will grow as we progress.

[cui bono]

185. And even if there are far left blacks who support Bernie they are "outliers".

The bs on DU is astounding. The racial baiting taking place on here is disgusting. Especially since the AA group is a safe haven for it and allows it to stand. Sadly they seem to be against any PoC who support Bernie - their hero so much as called one a traitor to his race. Truly despicable that they want to slander such a great man and anyone who supports him after all he's done in the name of racial equality. Oh, I forgot, I'm not supposed to mention that for some reason.

[Number23]

219. What are you talking about?

Sadly they seem to be against any PoC who support Bernie - their hero so much as called one a traitor to his race.

Who is our "hero?" Who called who a "traitor to their race" and surely you'll be able to back up all of this with links??

Love all of these new fans of the AA forum. Not AA ISSUES mind you, just the forum. No wonder our block list, I mean dance card is so full.

[zappaman]

221. No kidding.

That's some prime, A-grade bullshit right there.

[Number23]

224. I can't keep up with all the disparaging name that Sanders supporters here keep calling the AA forum

and its members.

I thought Obama was our "hero?" Was he the one that called someone a traitor to his race??

[zappaman]

227. Well, at least one reply to you in this thread

shows you who one of the serial alerters likely is!

[Number23]

229. Yep. Shows that and a hell of a lot more.

[romanic]

222. Well if the AA forum wasn't filled with to the brim with tin foil

then maybe you're dance card wouldn't be so full. Just saying.

[Number23]

223. If you don't like it, that's all the proof I'd ever need that we must be doing something right.

And that's the truth right there.

[romanic]

226. Doing something right?

You mean driving a wedge between the AA forum and the rest of DU + creating a narrative that Sanders has no black/poc supporters? If so then yes, you are correct.

But actually highlighting AA issues and thoughtful discussions? Nope, that's not what ya'll are doing at all.

[Number23]

228. That wedge was not created by us. You need to read what is going on outside of this bubble

Black people all over the Internet have been discussing this for months and cataloguing the amount of attacks, haranguing and harassment they have endured.

This forum has been on DU for 14 years and we discuss EVERYTHING. How very fascinating that you have never seen fit to visit the forum in between your time outs for all of the personal attacks you have launched on black DUers.

We didn't start this. But it doesn't surprise me in the least that not only do you now know that, but you have chosen as usual to blame the black posters for this problem. Since you dislike us all so much and since I think I can confidently say that none of us have even the slightest intention of changing our belief systems or behavior to curry favor with the likes of you, I don't think any of us would mind in the least if you put every single last one of us on ignore. And please feel free to start with me. By ALL means.

[romanic]

230. I've only had one time out thank you very much

and that was from a heated argument, not so-called "personal attacks" against other black DUers (I'm biracial btw but in your eyes I might as well be a racist KKK Wizard from the Appalachian mountains because I don't toe the line with your way of thinking). I have visited the AA forum a few times but opted not to post because I don't believe DU is this bastion of racism of hate that the majority over there seem to think it is.

Anyways I don't have to explain myself to you or anybody on here really cause frankly, I don't give a shit. I will definitely put you on ignore because I don't mesh well with others who get a high off being argumentative and self-righteous.

Bai.

[Number23]

233. I don't care how we get there, as long as the end result (you leaving me alone) is the same

So if you need to project your behavior on to other people, especially the one about being argumentative as hell, not to mention BEYOND self-righteous and defensive, as your last gasp before you hit that red X and never darken my "My Post" tab again, I am okay with that.

[romanic]

234. Whatever.

[IMG][/IMG]

Convo is done, bye.

[Number23]

240. Fight the urge to get the last and ever so pointless word in and just hit that Red X.

Make it happen!!

[zappaman]

235. LOL!

"I have visited the AA forum a few times but opted not to post because I don't believe DU is this bastion of racism of hate that the majority over there seem to think it is."

[cui bono]

241. I'm talking about this...

Here is an example for you which should explain things:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251450242

That poster calls any PoC who supports Sanders an "outlier". Perhaps you thought I was using that term. Nay... that's why I had it in quotes, because it's quoting what a PoC calls other PoC. Now imagine if a white person did that. Well, since it's about Bernie supporters, I honestly don't think you would care that much. I've certainly never seen him get called on it by any of the vocal AA members.

You want to know how I feel about AA issues? Search my user name and "white privilege". Search my user name and "Ferguson". Here's a post I made about rape culture where I referenced what I think about systemic racism:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=13579

So please, do not tell me I do not care about AA issues.

What I do not care for is how the AA group has become a cesspool of Bernie hatred and smears. How Hillary supporters and the vocal AA members made a concerted effort to paint Sanders as racist at worst, tone deaf at best, but mostly as racist or not caring about PoC. Then when it was mentioned that he fought for civil rights in the 60's we were told that didn't matter, it was decades ago, what is he doing now. We were told it was insulting to mention his record as if PoC didn't know about it. Well it wouldn't have to keep being brought up if there hadn't been a smear campaign going on on DU using racism as a way to divide DU and attempt to turn DU against Sanders by making it seem as if he was racist or just stupid about race, neither of which could be further from the truth considering he has been fighting for equality for everyone for decades now.

The AA group has become "popular" because a lot of the OPs in there are/were about Sanders and went to the greatest page. I, for one, look at the greatest page when I enter DU and go from there. And the AA group hosts allow OPs to stand which are simply attempts to swiftboat Bernie - look up the one about how he supposedly said racism is over, which he never said but don't let that stop a certain someone from trying to smear him. Now this is a person who isn't a PoC, didn't post an OP about AA issues (because what they posted was not true), but simply posted a hit piece in a "safe haven". Safe for smearing Bernie I guess. The hosts should have shut that down if they had any integrity, but no, it was rec'd and allowed to stand. That OP came from the same person who posted the infamous vile "Not Enough, Bernie" OP. She is trying so hard to bring down Sanders and taking it to the AA group and ginnig up the hatred for him in there. And rather than take an objective stance on it the AA group and vocal participants went all over DU trying to paint Sanders and his supporters as "lily white" and "only for white males" creating a racial divide on DU where there really wasn't much of any. And for what? For Hillary? Or for corporatism? I don't get it. Bernie is the one who has fought for PoC for decades, so why is he the one the AA group loves to smear?

Just the other day there was an OP in there that had nothing to do with AA issues, just a smear of Bernie supporters. Again, why is that in the AA group then if you are so concerned about people showing up there who don't care about AA issues? Why not shut it down? On the flip side, why was there no big uproar when Hillary treated BLM so poorly and rudely? Didn't see all the OPs about that for some reason. So it's hard to believe that it's about AA issues when there is such a difference in treatment of candidates, especially when it's very clear that Sanders is on your side and has been for decades.

I was thinking about posting an OP in there asking why all the hate towards Bernie and his supporters but I haven't done it because I know how a lot of the vocal people in there are and felt that all that would happen is that it would get swarmed with post attempting to ridicule and that no one would want to actually discuss the issue. I think it's a discussion worth having, but I don't think it can be had on DU.

I know there have been racist posts on DU. I know that a lot of people don't understand white privilege. But I honestly feel that this current racial tension on DU was brought on by the smear campaign against Sanders that started as soon as he announced with all the comments about his "lily white" supporters and the pretend Bernie supporters expressing "concern" over his policy being only for white males. It may not have started with the AA group, but it certainly traveled into there and is left up for all to see.

Anyway, I have work to do then I have to get to bed. I hope you can see what I'm saying. I know you and I have not gotten along on DU in the past because of my being critical of Obama, but that is neither here nor there really, or at least it shouldn't be. Any politician is a target for policy criticism. But disagreement of that shouldn't make people treat others rudely and shouldn't have a group that is about a specific issue turn against a politician who is fighting the hardest for the people, for equality for EVERYONE as he has been for decades.

[Number23]

242. There is a whole lot of subject changing and super charged defensiveness in this post

And I freely admit to only reading about two sentences of this response but I don't see anything that comes even remotely close to answering my questions.

Who called who a traitor to their race? And who is the "hero" that you are talking about??

And I am really uninterested in your positions on AA or anything else. I rarely even read your posts but this one caught my eye because of the incredibly errr... INTENSITY of the aspersions you've cast about the AA forum.

I will never understand why so many in the Sanders forum are so ABUNDANTLY concerned with what we talk about in AA. Most of us genuinely and honestly could not care less about anything you guys post. And not that anyone who participates in that forum has a leg to stand on considering the amount of personal attacks on other DUers that get allowed there. 'Tis such a curious thing that you are so "concerned" with happens in AA when your own house needs a good deal of Ajax itself.

[cui bono]

281. You read two sentences of my entire post and yet feel you have the right to judge its content?

That's rich.

I'm not going to play your little internet forum game of fighting over nothing. This issue is too important to be used as a political football as is being done by Clinton supporters in/with the AA group's vocal members.

If you really want to discuss it feel free but you'll have to actually read my post. And if you are going to continue with your snark I will not respond again.

[Number23]

282. I'm not surprised you're not going to "play my game." Most people say that same thing when they've

been caught saying something they know is not the least bit true.

And thanks for responding to this post -- finally. It took four days and you still couldn't come up with anything better than "I'm not going to play this game with you."

[nadinbrzezinski]

249. Nail meet hammer

And I say the attempts have to be rejected and mostly ignored. These people are doing incredible damage, not that they will ever admit it. Hell, i don't think they even realize it. The bullshit has gotten truly personal. It is a lot of things that they will never admit to doing.

As for me, at this point all I can do is laugh. After all the bullshit will only divide and ultimately help the ones they claim to hate, that be the GOP. These are things that make you go hmmm. And the GOP should thank them as well.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

253. +1,000 n/t

[cui bono]

182. What a load of exactly the type of propaganda the OP is about.

Perfect proof that the OP is true.

And btw... it's you that is using BLM and PoC as a political football. tsk, tsk...

[LondonReign2]

14. Actually they didn't say a thing about Bernie, because they can't

Now, don't you need to get back to telling us how Bernie protects pedophiles and Bernie is a war hawk? After that you can once again repeat your Republican talking points that taxes are bad, government is terrible at running things, and we need to focus on deficit reduction.

[SonderWoman]

16. So lets see...

Taxes are good? Govt excels at running things? And we shouldn't care about debt reduction? And I'm the crazy one?

And Bernie didn't cast those votes?

[Roy Ellefson]

25. wow...

wow...yes the government does excel at running things (think Social Security, medicare, NIH, NASA etc. etc. etc.)...yes taxes are good they pay for a civilized society, and debt reduction should be the furthest thing from our minds--the federal budget is not a household budget.

[SonderWoman]

70. No, Democrats are good at running things, republicans destroy.

But we can't guarantee republicans won't be in control. And yes, taxes are good, but too many taxes are bad. And yes, govt is good at creating programs, but not so great at running them. If they were, we wouldn't even need to be talking about raising taxes to fund soc sec and medicare. Its because it got fucked by the govt.

[Roy Ellefson]

80. no

no, actually Government is very good at running programs such as Social Security, Medicare, National Institutes of Health etc. you're wrong on this. Don't you understand that Social Security is not in trouble? Social Security and Medicare are fine...just quit letting politicians use the money to go to war and give tax cuts...government runs the programs well.

[cui bono]

187. +1

I think that poster needs to change the channel on their TV! Yikes.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

30. Did no one train you not to use Republican talking points here?

You just hit the trifecta.

[JDPriestly]

38. Progressive taxation is just and used to be a part of our nation"s system.

But now, the very wealthy hire tax lawyers and accountants and POLITICIANS who reduce their tax share and increase rhe share of taxes that the less wealthy pay. Taxes pay for roads, homeland security, police of all kinds, fire fighters, schools, scientific research, parks, part of our health care, regulation of pharmaceuticals, of meats and other foods, of the media, of our elections, so many things we take for granted.

Yes, taxes are good because we get good things and services in exchange for them, and those who make the most money have to pay the largest part of them because the rest of us cannot.

Yes. Government put us on the moon. Government built and maintains our system of national highways. It is government that manages our national parks. And in some cases that park management protects us from grave dangers. One example is the national park's management of the known volcanoes in our country. For example, Mount Saint Helens. The government tracks seismic activity, tornadoes, hurricanes and wildfires and droughts. No matter where we live, we benefit from those services. Without government, those services could and would not be performed as they are because there is no profit in watching aseismic chart measuring activity under what appears tp be an inactive volcano for example.

And if wealthy people really thought debt was so evil, they would not lend so much money. Rich people get richer by lending money. What would they do without the tax breaks they get for lending money to the government. Here in California, a succession of Republican conservative governments put us in the hole, mired in debt. It took liberals, Jerry Brown and aa Democratic legislature to get our finances back in order.

Bernie Sanders is not a big spender. He is not e one with a helicopter. He is conservative when it comes to money. He voted to audit the Fed and wants to audit our military if elected.

Yes. Bernie wisely voted against the Iraq War Resolution and for auditing the Fed.

I love answering your questions. Thanks for asking.

[R B Garr]

47. Then why hasn't BS run on this platform nationally before??

If all of what you are saying is remotely viable on a national platform, then whey hasn't he convinced the rest of the country of all of this years/decades ago. If he had such a vision for this country in his 20's, why didn't he go national. Why didn't he go national in his 30's, his 40's, his 50's, his 60's,....now that he's 70-something it's a national conversation that he wants to have. That alone tells you that there was no audience for his view and/or he was unable to sell them nationally. Apparently not even in his home state of New York, so he fled for the less populated state of Vermont, which makes no sense career wise.

And that's really all that comment you were responding to was saying. Viability/electability, that's what that comment was about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Son, Sanders has been talking about this issue this way for 30 years

Of public life. There are some great videos from oh the SPAN, going back decades. He decided to run now for the Presidency since he believes this is a crisis moment. Who else did something similar, mind you that record we have in private letters, not the SPAN? FDR.

When FDR ran for the first time taxation was similar to what we have right now. Here is a little piece you might want to check. Inequality has not been this bad since 1929. Yup, this observation has been made by people like Picketti, Reich, Goobsie, and Krugman. Obama was compared to FDR by none other than Time magazine after he was sworn in. There is a reason for that. We are at one of those moments when the American people know things are not working. We get these populist moments from time to time. We are at one of them.

But to say that Sanders waited until now shows quite a bit of well...ignorance.

[R B Garr]

50. Son?? If I did that to you, my post would be hidden. HEre's REALITY:

REALITY: Mondale 1984: "I will raise taxes".

Look at the 1984 electoral map of election results, and you will see what REALITY is. Sanders was only early 40's when Mondale ran and lost, so he could have easily used the rest of his 40's, his 50's, his 60's to run for President. OF COURSE he's been :talking:, lol, and you want to give yourself credit for figuring that out... I was talking about actually running for office, not just talking from a podium in a safe, white state.

And aren't you the funny one talking about ignorance, but I can't say what I really think about you or I would get a post hidden. But do let me know....where did you get your journalism degree?

Further, that's been MY point all along with BS. His supporters want to make him out to be a revolutionary, but he's not. He's just a politician like all the rest of them -- He spotted an opportunity and he's going for it. I've been saying that for MONTHS now, so thanks for agreeing!:

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Sorry, Mondale was not campaigning in a populist moment

Clinton did, somewhat, in 1992 by the way...but far less than now.

And I just pointed to a history...we call them facts. Have an excellent day from now on talking to yourself. And I will be as condescending to you as you are to others.

By the way...I cover this shit...we support nobody. Do you understand that? Some of us though have to do our fucking homework and watch those videos, they are in the archives and searchable, and read those economists.

So I am dealing in facts, not innuendo.

[R B Garr]

53. Well then you should delete your posts where you lecture people about DIVISIVENESS,

because you just said you are going to attack people. Or maybe that means it's okay for you to attack, but not others.

I guess you're not going to tell me if you have a journalism degree..."I cover this shit." LOL,

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. You know what

This will be the most divisive campaign in living memory. It already is.

And I am still dealing in facts. You are dealing in both innuendo and personal attacks.

Feel free to have the last word.



By the way, go search the archives.

http://www.c-span.org/

Really, go search them. You might learn something.

[R B Garr]

56. LOL, I've seen your amateur attempts to hijack REAL talking points such as the BLM

activists where you wanted to make yourself a victim on par with young AA's being profiled and shot by police, , so don't talk to me about your "facts."

And the posts here are numbered. You called me a condescending, "son" and then said I was ignorant. Now you're trying to hijack what I said to you to make yourself a victim when it was you who attacked me. Did I mention the posts are numbered...so you can read them in order.

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. On the personal attack scale this rates a -100

[R B Garr]

58. So I guess you're not going to delete your lectures about DIVISIVENESS.

You were all over the place attacking people about DIVISIVENESS.

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Since you are a prime example of what and who that was directed at

Why the hell should I take orders from you? Suffice to say I will continue to be as condescending to you as you are to other posters.

Mind you, those two calls were locked by hosts as meta or something, so they cannot be deleted, and the lock was telling. Management wants this. So it is what it is.

So continue to laugh, and please another personal attack, pretty please!!!!!

Make sure you do better than lower than whale shit though.

[R B Garr]

60. Yet you are the one who attacked me. Again. You've done this before. The posts aare numbered,

so you can go back and read that you already said you were going to continue to attack me for your own stated reasons. I've already acknowledged that you can say whatever you want to me but I can't respond in kind or my posts will be hidden

Now you're talking about me as lower than whale shit. You previously posted a picture of a pig sty, but if I did that to you, my post would be hidden. I'm just finding it amusing how you try and make yourself a victim when the opposite is true.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. If you don't want people to be condescending to you

Simple, don't start...which you did in your first response to a DU friend of mine



And your personal attack was that low in the registry. Like not one bit. Try to do better.

Though this is also a low level micro aggression. Which..is to be expected. If you are going to go the condescending route, don't be too shocked when it is deployed against you.

And hidden. Unless you are planning on hitting that tool, I don't alert and I do not play juries. I I just tell people. You want to discuss issues, sure. You want to be condescending, you will get that



Have a wonderful day, the sun is out, the sky is blue...it's a really nice day.

[R B Garr]

62. I do have to laugh. Your "friend" was attacking another poster with a condescending lecture

about the benefits of taxes. My post had to do with Sanders' past. It had nothing to do with pig stys, whale shit, condescending names or calling people ignorant. Remember that the posts are numbered, so you can read back and see that.

But your self-importance is the really hilarious part. I'm just amused that you place yourself into a victim mode, including saying you are victimized by police on the level of young AA's who are racially profiled and shot dead and you want to usurp those talking points and make it about you.

So much for Party Unity. At least you've written here that you are going to attack people based on your own vendettas. Thanks for that! info

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. I understand a fact filled post might be scary

And perceived as an attack.

[R B Garr]

65. Your facts are questionable to say the least. You are not racially profiled.

That makes the rest of what you say suspect. We've already established that you can abuse me and I can't respond in kind. That's pretty evident on many levels, especially in this forum..

Do tell if you have a journalism degree. Yes or no.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. So Latinos are not racially profiled?

Hmm hmm

http://racerelations.about.com/od/thelegalsystem/a/Latinos-On-The-Receiving-End-Of-Racial-Profiling-And-Police-Brutality.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/01/racial-profiling-in-drug-stings_n_3690551.html


https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/race-and-criminal-justice/racial-profiling

M'kay

And personally I was never challenged on my citizenship status...ok.

If you prefer to live in that reality. I fear a scanned copy of my now way out of date Mexican passport or my long form birth certificate would not be enough for some here. By the way, what you are doing is a classic of not recognizing somebody else's experience. It is quite ugly by the way.

But you are correct, you should correct the Federal Courts and the ACLU for starters.

[R B Garr]

68. So is it a "fact" that you are a degreed journalist?

Yes or no. You don't have to say where you got your degree.

And I never said anything about "Latinos" I was talking about *you* in the context of how you've presented yourself as a victim on par with young AA's who have been racially profiled by police.

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Alas like most people working in media

Keep the micro aggressions coming

They are great. Very revealing too.

[R B Garr]

75. lol at the way you make yourself a victim. Very reavealing, indeed.

so you don't have a degree in journalism. Also very revealing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Like most people working in media

And doing analysis. Many come from history, law and political science. I am a trained historian and working with living history is about the same.

Very revealing you are proven wrong as to Latinos actually being profiled and you turned this into more micro aggression attacks.

This continues to be extremely revealing. Oh and before you do it, I expect you to tell me that I did not go to college either. Some of your friends have as well.

The echoes of another place online are eerie. They do this shit in their fantasy writing often. I recommend you stop doing that without at least a good, stout safety line.

[R B Garr]

77. LOL at your amateur attempts to usurp talking points.. Now you're a victim of your own

making because I typed something on the internet and you want to twist it about Latinos . This is just internet bullying , but you like to make yourself a victim of it when it is really you who is perpetrating it. Very revealing, indeed.

And the internet is full of "trained historians."

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Nah this whole thing reveals you

For the bully you are. Facts are ignored and instead you make this about me.

It is to the point of being damn well... Comedic

The fact you do that, and not just to me, but often. .. Tells me you are not into issues but into attacking people.

Go ahead. Tell me once again how I am playing victim while you are doing a fine job of an attempt at bullying. I say attempt because the tricks usually work. Must be rather frustrating when they stop working

And you first refusing to admit Latinos are profiled is racist, there I said it. You telling me I am not what I am I called it. Why? Because your type does this. I have a very good idea why after talking to experts in well, yes, bullying behavior.

To be honest at this time not only it is predictable but rather cute.

[R B Garr]

81. The posts are numbered. Go back and read them from your first post, and

especially your subsequent parts where you said you would continue attacking me because of your "friend".

LMAO!

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Attacking you is different from being condescending

They sell dictionaries still this is not an attack. It is pure condescension

[R B Garr]

84. The posts are numbered. You can go back and read what you wrote from your

first post. No dictionary needed.

I've already acknowledge that you can abuse me, but I can't respond in kind. It's all in the numbered posts.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

114. +1 n/t

[demtenjeep]

284. because there is no degree

she evades, ignores or accuses of being bullied when one asks for a simple truth

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. I was going to ignore this

But while I don't get profiled all the time...has to do with melanin content. I do get profiled for the heavy accent. We Latinos do not have it as bad as AA do, but as PoC we do get it. None was trying to hijack a thing, but denying that this happens not just to blacks is ignoring the real elephant in the room...I suppose it is the T-Rex, racism is structural, and not just limited to just one group.

This is also a textbook example of a micro aggression. And until all minorities work together (which in my town we are) the divide and conquer will continue to work like a charm.

[R B Garr]

79. omg, now you were profiled because of what you sound like?

Talk about aggression -- putting that on the level of young AA's who are pulled over and racially profiled because of the color of their skin is beyond "micro aggression: and inexcusable on any level. And very revealing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. Oh my god I was questioned on my citizenship

Status. Which is profiling.

This happens to minorities at the polls, not just African Americans.

Gasp, I know. Pesky facts!

[R B Garr]

85. omg, how can you intelligently compare being questioned on your citizenship as

in any way being comparable to young AA's being racially profiled because of their skin color. How ridiculous. We've ALL been questioned about our citizenship. If you live in San Diego and cross the border for any reason, you are questioned about your citizenship. I've been there, and I was questioned, too, zOMG

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. First you deny that it did not happen

Then minimize it and claim I said it is the same. This is coded racism right there.

By the way, to start you on some not learning go argue here

https://www.sonoma.edu/tah/lessons/protest/voting/mexican_american_docs.rtf

There are even gasp books on this.

Oh and red lining is also a reality for other minorities as well as really bad loans.

It is not to the same level, but do continue to deny that it happens.

[R B Garr]

87. Thanks for your random thoughts, lol. What I said was that you have not

been racially profiled on par with what the BLM activists and the rest of the national are finally acknowledging happens with AA's racial profiling and police violence. If anything, your comments are coded racism because you are trying to minimize and normalize their experience, when in fact, it doesn't happen to you.

Being questioned about your citizenship isn't racial profiling. Everyone is questioned about their citizenship. It's very revealing that you want to make yourself a victim.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. You keep gnawing that bone if it keeps you happy

And misinterpreting what you are told. Or plain out lying

It is ugly. It is racist and it is bullying.

[R B Garr]

89. Except that the posts are numbered. You can go back and read your first post to me

and the subsequent posts where you said you would keep attacking me because of your "friend."

I already acknowledged that you can attack me however you want, but I can't respond in kind. It's all in the numbered posts. That is bullying, but now you are just trying to usurp talking points to make yourself the victim. Ihe numbered posts will show that.

Being asked about your citizenship is NOT racial profiling. I have been asked about my citizenship in lots of circumstances. trying to make yourself a victim on the level of young AA's shot by police is what is ugly. It's very strange, and it's very ugly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Have fun

And I told you I would be rather condescending. I have. I have not crossed likes you have.

They are red lines.

But keep gnawing on that bone

[R B Garr]

91. You have indeed crossed lines by trying to make making yourself a victim. You do that a lot.

And thanks for acknowledging that you said you would continue bullying me because of your "friend." So much for your lamentations about DIVISIVENESS and so much for your "facts."

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. I call bullies in their behavior

And you keep up the micro aggressions. Enjoy them, they obviously give you some kind of pleasure.

[R B Garr]

93. But the numbered posts show you who started bullying. You do this a lot.

It's all there in the numbered posts.

My first post was in response to your "friends" post about the benefits of taxes. Nothing in my post was personal like you have done regarding me being lower than whale shit, pictures of pig stys, you calling me ignorant.

It was just a response to a post.

The rest is your own meanderings and trying to make yourself a victim of your own admitted attack on me, lol.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. But the numbered posts

I was condescending to you. Obviously that word has no meaning to you. It is obvious you will keep the micro aggressions. They are cute. I came due to a micro aggression or two

But what can you do? When people love to deny folks their identity and experience and education and cross those lines it is cute.

Keep it up. I am sure you will. These micro aggressions give you pleasure. It is what bullies do.

[R B Garr]

96. The numbered posts show your first response and now you admit you will continue

attacking me. It's all in the numbered posts. I knew it was only a matter of time before you called me cute and adorable.

All I did was respond to a post in this thread. I just find it amusing how you try to make yourself a victim out of your own admitted attack on me. it's obviously a tactic to keep people from posting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. Once again I was condescending to you

Not attacking you.

This is an attack, mild as it may be, you need to learn the meaning of words. You might want to invest in a copy of Websters.

[R B Garr]

98. The numbered posts show your line of attack, including admitting you attacked me

because of your "friend."

Look at the numbered posts. You started calling me lower than whale shit and ignorant. We've already established that you can do that to me, but I cannot respond in kind. That's classic bullying right there. Now you keep trying to make yourself a victim of your own planned attack on me. lol. Once again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Keep at it

Must give you some pleasure.

I got better things to do now. So as they say, have a good day but I also recommend highly you use the ignore feature if you do not want to be called on your condescension. It drips.

[R B Garr]

105. Oh it's definitely you who "enjoyes" it. So much so that you go out of your way to make

yourself a victim on so many levels.

and you and your "friend" were rude and condescending to sonderWoman, who is a Hillary supporter, so it's obvious you are trying to shut people up.

At least we've fully established that you are going to continue attacking me. Of course, you can do that, but I can't respond in kind, so that makes you the bully.

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. My lord you have been crossing BRIGHT RED LINES left right and center

and you do not consider what you have done attacks? Like denying I have actually been profiled, meets the ACTUAL DICTIONARY DEFINITION. Or that I am actually by multiple definitions a MINORITY and a PoC. Telling me I do not have a history degree (masters if you must ask) from an actual university in the United States, and questioning what I do for a living. If I posted the media pass from my local police department, like the passport, and birth certificate, I suspect it would not be enough.

By the way I called you on your condescension, Your friend and supporter of HRC has the same exact problem by the way. It drips.

At this point this has to be some kind of performance art. As I said, you obviously are getting some kind of weird pleasure from it. Me, just pointing it because at this point it is down right well, comedic.

[R B Garr]

111. No, wrong again. You are still just trying to usurup talking points about racism so you

can minimize someone else's experiences. That's attention seeking and performance art to the max. I saw you were banned from the AA group when you followed some posters in there to browbeat them with this same nonsense. So it is you who is getting the enjoyment. BRIGHT RED LINES there!

Again, look at the numbered posts. Go back and read where you attacked SonderWoman by calling her a right winger. Then your "friend" attacked her with a condescending ditty about the benefits of taxes. I think it's very kind of Skinner to allow you to run his readership off this site by harassing them when you have said you, yourself, IP ban people from your own blog for any perceived slights. Such double standards!

Go back and read the numbered posts to see that you never answered my questions about your education until this last post, and now you say you have a Masters degree. I'm still curious about that because your handling of prepositional phrases is usually ironed out early in college English classes.......hmmm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. You need a dictionary BADLY

can minimize someone else's experiences. That's attention seeking and performance art to the max. I saw you were banned from the AA group when you followed some posters in there to browbeat them with this same nonsense. So it is you who is getting the enjoyment. BRIGHT RED LINES there!

You think the VRA only applied to the African American Experience? NOPE

Here is a direct link that is relevant


http://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/latinos-1965-voting-rights-act-impact-came-decade-later-n404936

There is even more, You can go search in the archives, but I did tell that story on Nov of 2004 here on DU. since it was not just insulting, but hurtful. It is not coopting an experience that is also happening to my people, me far less I don't have the melanin content to experience it too often and only happens (and it does) when I open my mouth. I understand, for crass political reasons, which are WRONG, some African Americans cannot recognize their experience is mirrored to a lesser degree among OTHER MINORITIES

You should go and READ ABOUT THE OTHER CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, the one they don't teach in school that much, that is CESAR CHAVEZ. In the south west the majority minority population is not black. It is hispanic, it is latino, it was segregated, (still is for the same structural reasons as African Americans). It is still discriminated against, It is redlined too. Schools. like the Lemon Grove system were segregated and children of both Kumeyaii and Latino origin were not permitted to speak their native languages either in the 1920s and 30s. This is still a group that as a whole is still stopped and frisked, and profiled by police departments. The data from San Diego PD shows that it is a lesser extent, for example, but that is just a matter of degree.

Fortunately my African American local community and Latinos are not just marching together, but recognizing each other's experience and pain. You might want to follow that lead. What you are doing is extremely ugly, and yes racist. There I said it.

None is trying to subvert anything, except in your imagination and by the way, the GOP loves this, self done divide and conquer. Congratulations, continue to play into their game. And with that I expect you to keep on numbered posts shitty game and racist diatribe and denying that this profiling also happens to people like me.

Here are more articles since of course you will not take this from somebody who has experienced this. The fact that you need to be shown this is not just ugly by the way, but rather telling. Especially since the Florida 2000 voter purge included voters of ALL MINORITIES not just African Americans.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/emlj57&div=36&id=&page=

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/rutlr64&div=37&id=&page=

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ZXg8J5ixlc0C&oi=fnd&pg=PA1958&dq=latino+voter+suppression&ots=gJDbcgUyFQ&sig=d5lmow3nJ9UN12bHZf6mP2IaGCs#v=onepage&q=latino%20voter%20suppression&f=false

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/wajlp22&div=8&id=&page=

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/jls8&div=11&id=&page=

By the way I do not expect you to believe any of this, or for that matter care. As of now I believe you do not care. In fact, you have proven to me that it would be best if we did not raise our voices and point out this crap is happening as well.

Oh and here is the stop data for San Diego PD, not going to bother you with the link to the article, just the raw data.

http://docs.sandiego.gov/councilcomm_agendas_attach/2015/psln_150225_3.pdf

Granted they did not do this for a few years, and the Chief was not particularly happy to be challenged and told to do this again. Hell I am sure I am not in her Hanukah list for multiple reasons.

Oh and here is policing in the 21st century where they do talk about race relations, they include latinos by the way, again the raw data.

http://www.policemag.com/resources/documents/21stcpolicingtaskforce-finalreport.pdf

And I will add for you, since our PD has had a few issues, the PERF report, not my reporting on it, the damn raw data. you can argue with the raw data

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/cops-w0756-pub.pdf

Yes, race relations, in this city the majority are latino, and actually AA are one of the smaller minorities, is highlighted as something the report did find even though they did not quite were looking for it. It is in there, including the feelings that ALL MINORITIES feel targeted.

And some of that OTHER CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, the one that ran in parallel.

http://www.amazon.com/Crusades-Cesar-Chavez-Biography-ebook/dp/B00IE3DM6E/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442761794&sr=1-3&keywords=cesar+chavez

http://www.amazon.com/Organizers-Tale-Speeches-Cesar-Chavez-ebook/dp/B001R6OTD0/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442761794&sr=1-6&keywords=cesar+chavez

http://www.amazon.com/Sal-Puedes-Escape-You-Can-ebook/dp/B00HXIUDRW/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442761840&sr=1-1&keywords=cesar+chavez+and+civil+rights

And to quote Chavez, si se puede, in this case take those blinders from your eyes.

First you were saying that latinos face nothing, you were shown to be wrong, and now essentially you are telling me that latinos do not face any racism I do not know what is sadder, you denying my experience for I do not know what reason, or you playing into the hands of the GOP.

As I said, locally multiple minority communities are working together. My local power elite is not happy. They should consult you as to how to open those scabs once again, the ones they built and relied over decades, to keep minorities at each other's throats.

And with that, I do not expect you to even get to the end of this post. Keep it up. At this point you are doing a great favor to the GOP. Congrats.

Si se puede! Reach understanding and to acknowledge each other's experience. Yes, Latinos do not have it as bad as African Americans. But they do not have it easy and stating that they face racial profiling, and discrimination is not coopting anybody else's experience.

By the way, this is one factoid you might want to internalize about mass incarceration as well.

The most disturbing feature of this trend, activists have long said, is that those most targeted for arrest and harsh sentencing are African-Americans and Latinos. Law professor and civil rights activist Michelle Alexander has gone as far alleging that the mass incarceration of black Americans is tantamount to a contemporary manifestation of Jim Crow—a method of racial control far more subtle than its predecessor. She isn’t the only black leader to condemn pervasive imprisonment resulting from draconian drug laws—voices as mainstream as Oprah and Will.I.Am have also taken to public channels to protest the merciless aggression with which the criminal justice system has decimated families and communities.

http://www.latinorebels.com/2014/01/07/latinos-and-mass-incarceration-the-dust-under-the-rug/

First off, the racial bias in marijuana arrest rates is likely even more pronounced than what we reported last week. In The War on Marijuana in Black and White, we found that Blacks are over 3.7 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession – a staggering racial disparity that exists nationwide. But consider this: most Latino arrests were likely counted as "white" arrests, meaning that the white arrest rate was artificially inflated. If Latinos also have a higher arrest rate than whites (which we suspect they often do), the disparity between Black and white arrest rates would likely have been even larger.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/war-marijuana-has-latino-data-problem

And then there is this graphic from the ACLU





Oh and I expect you to again to the numbered list, and keep actually crossing those bright red glowing lines. You think you are hurting me. that is what bullies believe, but you are hurting yourself. And you are making sure that I do discount anything you say from now on. I am sure that all you will say is tinged with pro GOP talking points, and some racism. It is ugly, The mirror is over there, I recommend you use it.

[R B Garr]

116. What a ridiculous red herring. I love how you are pretending to be an expert

on things that are basically common knowledge. My husband is Hispanic, born in East L.A. You aren't going to lecture me with this nonsense. LOL. I have to laugh that you said you were discriminated against because of the way you sounded. My husband doesn't have an accent. How do Hispanics sound? How do AA's sound?? How do white people sound?? That right there shows your own prejudices, RED FLAGS there.

And your so-called experiences with racism are not life or death like those the AA's have experienced and are being highlighted by BLM. So what if you have to show Proof of Citizenship. Anyone crossing the border has to provide Proof of Citizenship. That is just a pro forma government requirement. You are not being stopped while driving so a cop can find out if you are Jewish.

Serious, just stop this nonsense. You said about 40 posts ago you were going to let me have the last word, but here you are still responding. You must really ENJOY this!

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. I see you coninue to discount my experience

I see.

Please proceed governor, I love the coded racism against an immigrant

(For the rest that is where the accent comes from, I guess my counterpart also lacks reading comprehension skills Yes this is a mild attack)

And a final edit, there is no way she read any of the links, Just the PERF reports takes a good 2 hours.

[R B Garr]

119. Like I've said, you continue with amateiur attempts to usurip talking points about racism

to bring attention to yourself. It's quite bizarre, actually, how you continue to throw yourself into a victim mode, but it's obviously attention seeking and performance art.

And you've already said you will continue attacking me, nothing mild about what you said, lol.

And why would I read your red herring links. Your goal with that SPAM was just to try and establish some control over me by trying to establish yourself as a phony expert. I have to agree that this is now just hilarious.

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. Since I have experienced it in the flesh

you tell me about my amateur experience.

You discounting it is well ugly, if not outright RACIST.

[R B Garr]

122. You keep trying to usurp talking points about racism.

It is very UGLY and frankly unacceptable to keep comparing your inconveniences about showing Proof of Citizenship to young AA's being racially profiled and pulled over by police and dying violent deaths at their hands. It's really UGLY what you are doing. edit: although it's probably to get posts hidden..

Anyway, this line started when you tried to establish control over me previously by saying it was a "fact" that I am lower than whale shit. LMAO. Of course, if I said that to you, my post would be hidden.

So much for your "facts"....

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. I have experienced it in the flesh

do you tell victims of rape they are usurping talking posts as well?

Of course your attack was indeed lower than whale shit, but right now you are behaving in a very racist manner.

[R B Garr]

126. I've seen what you've written to AA's here, and it's really UGLY what

you are doing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. You mean reports from the courts on the 182.5

or defending myself from the personal attacks from two people there? Or just being told to just sit down and shut up like you are doing right now and going NOPE, it is ugly?

By the way dear, since you are in California, you do know what criminal code 182.5 is? Of course, it is much uglier to be told by a minority to shut up, since I am one. That is what was ugly,

Fortunately I do not take the hurtful words of a few AA (and mostly their white allies) to be all of it. What I originally posted in that group was indeed horrible, such as reports from the streets on the BLM marches, including the march though Horton Plaza last November, the marches though city heights, and of course what has happened with the CRB. You know what a CRB is and why you need a good one right? Maybe not.

What I have found is that some folks here are willing to shut up OTHER MINORITIES and do not pay attention to things like historic marches from the NAACP, or the fact that there was a settlement in Baltimore with the Freddie Gray Family, or the fact that the cops did not have their venues changed.

It was quite obvious where the priorities are. Suffice to say, they are far from the priorities in my local streets or for that matter the larger BLM movement.

But you keep telling a minority to shut up for your political goals. It makes you look grand.

And please do tell me how my experience of profiling due to that status as a LATINA and IMMIGRANT is just coopting talking points. It makes you look more and more well, racist.

By the way, many of us just decided to stop posting any of these issues HERE... we keep the conversation elsewhere. and it has been quite revealing.

[R B Garr]

139. The posts here are numbered. IN none of them have I told you to sit down

and shut up. You keep trying to make everything about you and to make yourself a victim of your own planned attack on me. it's all here in the numbered posts.

Quite revealing. Revealing. Revealing. Soool revealing. Yawn.

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. You have

at least now you are not denying the profiling, it is coming AGAIN I am betting though.

[R B Garr]

149. lol, what I'm noting are your phony attempts to make yourself a victim.

And I'm married to a Mexican-American man, so take your phony "profiling" shit elsewhere. Hilarious, but sad, actually.

Who cares about your laundry list of people and groups you hate on this website. Yawn.

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. Again, do you tell rape victims they were never victims

because you are telling a victim of profiling and racism that she is making this up. It is racist. And I agree with you, what you are doing is INDEED SHITTY.

Why do you need to deny somebody else's experience? What do you gain from it?

(for the record the 2004 election one was the most obvious, micro aggresions happen every day... congrats for denying that)

For the rest of the class I was born in Mexico City, so yes, I am Mexican American, and actually also LATINA, since I did come from Latin America.

[R B Garr]

153. You keep trying to make yourself a victim of your own planned attack on me.

Now you're trying to one up my husband who was born in East L.A. Now you're in competition with my Mexicqan-American husband to usurup racism talking points. This is really sick.

And "for the rest of the class". LMAO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. I am making myself a victim? Actually you are correct in revealing

of not so coded racism. It is quite vile.

I am not competing with your husband, I am telling you what I AM. So you also deny I was born and raised in Mexico City? It is not that I have ever made a secret of that. VILE.

And that my dear, that racism, you did yourself. You built that!

At this point it is kind of tragic, but self reflection i don't think is your strong suit.

[R B Garr]

160. You have already **revealed** that you are doing this to attack me.

You stated that was your goal early on. Now you're trying to one up my Mexican_American husband by continuing to attack me on a message board. He's apparently unimportant now, which is VILE.

Your interpretations about most everything else come from your own head. Just like the previous threads that were posted where you said you were insulted, but no insults were present. That's how you roll.

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. At this point there are no attacks

you are revealing yourself as utterly racist.

[R B Garr]

164. You have aleady reavealed yourself.

You said you were going to keep up attacking me. It's all here in this thread.

[nadinbrzezinski]

168. Continue to do what you are doing

you are doing just fine

[R B Garr]

175. Yes, I will continue to point out that your stated goal was to attack me,

and that is all you are doing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

177. Nah was not, but you exposed your racism

GOOD JOB

Please do proceed.

[R B Garr]

178. i've exposed that you said you would attaack me, and that is what

you are doing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

179. Please do continue believing whatever you do believe.

You were the one who repeatedly denied my experience of race in the United States

I expect you to say I am playing victim, but people like you do that.

[R B Garr]

183. "experience of race" What you have described is a document process,

a pro forma document process. I have not denied that it was inconvenient for you, and I've said nothing else than it is not racial profiling, especially to the level that the BLM activists are protesting. And I doubt you are being pulled over by cops to see if you are Jewish. If so, then that would be a great story for you to write for your blog. You can detail your traffic stops, Police harassment is a big public issue now.

And it's obvious that you are trying to make yourself a victim of your own planned attack on me, which you announced in this thread.

[nadinbrzezinski]

189. So you are challenged on your citizen status and

they demand a passport or birth certificate from you often? It is good to know you do

So you know, the person who did that, is no longer working in any capacity at the registrar and I have only been asked for PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP ONCE. that was 2004...

For the record, passports are one of the documents the registrar will indeed take, but they will also take a drivers license. A drivers license was NOT SUFFICIENT in this case. We did talk to the Registrar who also agreed that was NOT PROPER.

So perhaps you need to go have that discussion with the registrar.

And please do continue to deny my experience. It is really becoming, and at this point even more revealing.

There is a saying about digging holes. At this point I think your intention is to go to the core of the planet. Please do continue.

[zappaman]

167. I was called "mentally ill" by this poster, so

You are getting off easy, son!

[nadinbrzezinski]

169. It is a she, if you bothered to read all of it

which I don't expect you to.

And I was wrong to call you that. Not that I expect you to accept any apologies, i do. It was wrong, but hey, things got a tad hot and I lost my cool which I should never do with you

I just don't expect you to accept it.

For the record I was called far worst than that a few times already... and have had my identity as a minority and PoC denied on this very thread, as well as many others.

I suspect some of you do not even believe I live where I live. And that is very much YOUR ISSUE.

[zappaman]

170. I know, kiddo...I know.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=606211

[nadinbrzezinski]

171. She revealed this well into the conversation

like well into it.

But I also expected the call out from you, That is all you provide to these discussions.



So the bat signal did go up, so who else is showing to this party?

[zappaman]

172. Sorry, but I was just following your condescending lead.

My apologies since I did not realize only you are allowed to be condescending.

[nadinbrzezinski]

173. I told her that this is exactly what I was doing since she is quite condesceing

to other posters, like you are... so we are good.

[R B Garr]

192. lol, it is actually pretty easy...

not much challenge except that old laptop putters out a lot.

Sorry to hear about the names you were called, but that's what these bullies do...

[nadinbrzezinski]

196. And that is what you are doing to me

we are even, and good, and worst than just bullies. Why is that?

[R B Garr]

198. Once again. The posts are numbered. Read through them in order,

starting with you calling me ignorant. Then you said it was a fact that I am lower than whale shit. You can read them in the order you posted them. If I called you those names, my posts would be hidden. Congratulations are in order for you!

[nadinbrzezinski]

199. We passed that shit the moment you

denied my identity, my degrees, my profession and my national origin.

Me calling you son, was mild. This is vile.

[R B Garr]

202. The numbered posts don't show that. Read back through them. They show

that you stated you were going to attack me, and that is what you are doing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

204. I did not say that

I said I was going to call you on your condescension. You are the one who went full on racist

Keep digging

You are not even though the mantle yet.

[R B Garr]

206. You said you were going to keep attacking me, which is what you are doing.

Keep digging yourself. everything about racism you've already tried with others here, and it's really ugly.

[nadinbrzezinski]

208. I said I was going to call you on your condescencion

I did not expect you to go full on racist though. That was kind of surprising in the first post you did that, then I remembered some folks are committed to it. I will be nice now, and will call it unconscious bias

Here, might be faster though

[R B Garr]

210. I like how you are still trying to make yourself a victim of your own planned attack on me.

I predicted that about 100 posts ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

212. It is you who keeps denying what you have done

and you still tell victims of rape that they were not raped too?

But you know what? As much "fun" as it is playing with a racist, I do indeed have better things to do today, and for the next week or two or three,

I will remember now that you are what you are, and it is neither progressive or nice.

I will leave this though.



You seem to insist on digging that hole. This is one of the largest industrial diggers in the world. Not the largest mind you, but I think you still want some of a challenge.

[R B Garr]

213. Once again, you are just trying to usurp racism talking points to make things about

you. You even throw my Mexican-American husband under the bus so you can continue this phony attack on me.

And once again, if I could respond to you the way you respond to me, including vile insults and pictures, my posts would be hidden.

[zappaman]

214. Yes, there is a good reason why that poster was banned from the AA group.

[R B Garr]

215. Yes, indeed. I read through that and was disgusted.

I appreciated your input in those threads and this one, too.

[treestar]

131. Yes, I was giggling at how long ago you were dismissed

I could see the list of posts on the board so I knew it was nowhere near over!

Nadin always claims personal experience or even expertise, and that's the club to be used in the argument. It comes off condescending and annoying. Talk about not being a good advocate. Making it about her and whether she is being bullied never convinced anyone on an issue, but DU is full of nadin claims to be bullied and claims to have experience or expertise that her debating partner should defer to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

144. So you are also telling me, expected by the way,

that a minority cannot be profiled becuase you do not like that minority?

First you question my intelligence for having a heavy accent

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=608205

by the way it is an area of research and it is well known as a racist cudgel

http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1009&context=aalj

But at the same time you tell me somebody else's experience is valuable. That is the kind of argument that makes me say, both cannot be true. If you think my experience is not valid, neither can anybody else's

[R B Garr]

147. lol, it really is giggle worthy. That's a lot of effort to go through to

make herself a victim. She's not convincing anyone, though. lol, I can't say much else because of the alert police, but you've nailed it about the phony expert game and who the actual bully really is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. My point is not to convince you, but in the process you have exposed yourself

as you say.

[R B Garr]

151. It was actually *you* who exposed herself.

It started from the beginning where you said you were going to attack me It's all there in the numbered posts. All of what you have written about me has come from your own head.

Just like the threads posted where you said you were insulted, but you weren't insulted. Just like that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. You are the one who keeps saying my experience with profiling is not real

by that you have exposed yourself as a racist my dear.

There is a mirror over there, So congrats on doing that.

And yes, I was insulted, Once again, do you tell rape victims they were not raped? That is what you are doing here. It is vile. It is racist...

[R B Garr]

154. Now you're trying to one up my Mexican-American husband with racist talking points.

This is really sick. You tell the AA's here that their experiences are not important, and you say that I am "profiling" when I'm married to a Mexican-American. This is some sick shit you have going here.

And LMAO, I KNEW it was just a matter of time before you called me a racist. That was the plan all along, just like I said. Usurp talking points so you can make yourself the victim. SMH, but not surprising.

[nadinbrzezinski]

157. Not only do you deny the racism I experience

but my identity, VILE

[R B Garr]

158. What's VILE is to say the pro forma voting requirements regarding Proof of Citizenship

so you can vote here is in any way racial profiling. It's not. You are just trying to make yourself a victim of your own planned attack on me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

159. Again, I was challenged due to that accent

on my citizenship status by a precinct staff, That staff no longer serves anywhere in the county,

The fact that you still deny my experience continues to be extremely vile even when called on your racism.

[R B Garr]

162. i have only restated what you said was your "experience"

You were inconvenienced about Proof of Citizenship so you can vote. Uh huh. How....inconvenient for you. That's what you describe.....inconvenience. And I'm not denying that you were inconvenienced. I'm sure you were.

That's not racial profiling, especially on par with what BLM is protesting. I'm sure the rest of the "class" sees that, too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

166. So your husband carries a passport? You too?

it is ugly what you are doing and racist to boot, You have exposed yourself It is vile.

You keep at this... and the laughing tract is even more funny. This is the kind of shit that is allowed on this site, it is vile, it is not progressive and YOU are revealing yourself for somebody that I would not do a think for.

I do not alert, but you are a racist

[R B Garr]

174. I've already predicted this was your goal all along. You just want to make yourself a victim

of your own planned attack on me. You revealed yourself already that you planned to attack me.

And a passport is a pro forma i.D. document. it is not racial profiling. Every person has to have one to cross the border now or to travel abroad. you should take your own advice and self-reflect on what you are actually saying, because it makes no sense.

[nadinbrzezinski]

176. Planned my ass

but you keep denying my actual identity and experience with racism

You must believe, (your fantasy) that I am posting somewhere in a basement in Iowa and I am quite the lovely WASP.

Hey, there is another group committed to that kind of fantasy writing. So if that is the fantasy you want to have, by all means.

For the moment. you are a racist... that is what you are. This is not fantasy, this is what you have revealed yourself to be, and it is vile. So continue on this vein. The exposure is great.

[R B Garr]

180. It's noted you throw my Mexican-American husband under the bus becuaes you can't

get my posts hidden from your previously stated planned attack on me and 100 nonsense posts that have followed from when you first announced that in this thread.

It's also noted there were threads last week where you accused others of insulting you,, but the posted threads revealed no such insults.

[nadinbrzezinski]

181. I am not throwing your husband under any bus

you are throwing me under the bus.

I have no idea why. It is your business...

By the way, if anybody else alerts, that is their business. I really do not alert. Never mind there is some vile posting here from you, that is quite well racist. But if you are thinking that, perhaps you are realizing you are wrong.

[R B Garr]

184. "alerts"

So this is about "alerts"??? No kidding...!

[nadinbrzezinski]

186. What part of I DO NOT ALERT

not do I play jury, are you purposefully missing?

[R B Garr]

190. Yet you obviously know that other people alert because you mentioned it.

And you've already said in this thread that you would attack me so....

[nadinbrzezinski]

191. I do not control other DU'ers or their actions

if they decide that any of this (and that includes my posts) are alert worthy, they will.

It is YOU who raised that. Ergo you must be feeling a tad guilty. If that is the case, I recommend a massive self delete.

[R B Garr]

194. All of this are your own thoughts you've come up with to attack me.

You said you would attack me, and you have filled in the blanks with all your own meanderings. It's going on over 100 posts now. You have said you were attacked before,, but the posted threads showed no attacks.

[nadinbrzezinski]

197. So you denying my identity as a latina

comes from that? WOW! So your open hate and racist posts come from that? Impressive.

Keep digging

[R B Garr]

200. I'm saying you announced that you would be attacking me and this is your method.

I said that about 100 posts ago.

[nadinbrzezinski]

203. So I wanted you to deny that I am an actual minority

there is some planning in that indeed!!!!

Or like my friends at the cave, you have quite the imagination.

[R B Garr]

207. Oh, the imagination is all yours. All of what you have conjured up about me has

come from your own imagination. I like how you co-opt my words now too. They are obviously effective.

[nadinbrzezinski]

209. I made you go all out racist

and deny my identity?

WOW! I did not know I was that powerful and cunning...

I take my unconscious bias words back now.

And I wanted to be nice.

Here you will need a few of these, remember the core is hot.

[R B Garr]

211. But the numbered posts don't support what you are saying. You filled in the blanks,

and I predicted how you would proceed, which is what you did.

And just like a couple other threads where you said you were insulted, but the threads didn't show any insults. You are very predictable.

[Number23]

250. NAILED IT.

"You are very predictable"

Among many other qualities.

[zappaman]

163. Yes, I'm sure that's why they asked for your ID...

That's what polling places do, kiddo.
You weren't singled out for being Jewish or Latin.
Get over yourself already.

[nadinbrzezinski]

165. That is why she said I could not be a US Citizen and wanted **PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP**

not just a drivers license KID

Did the bat signal go out and would I add you to the list of racist, just wondering to save some effort here.

[davidpdx]

245. Sorry but you are 100% wrong on this one

Being questioned about your citizenship isn't racial profiling.

Latinos are profiled and harassed as to whether they are citizens, especially in the southwestern states.

I urge you to watch the documentary 9500 Liberty, which was done by a woman who's name is Annabel Park, a Korean-American who immigrated to the US with her family. When she saw the injustice going on in her neighborhood she began a documentary.

If after watching that you come back and tell me the same thing, then I truly feel sorry for you.

[R B Garr]

246. LOL, it's hard to believe that you are serious, My comment didn't have to do with "Latinos"

it was about that specific poster. It's actually there in my post what I was talking about. Getting documentation for Proof of Citizenship isn't like being shot by police.

And I see that you live in Portland...? And in Asia...? I actually live in Southern California, so I really don't need to be told how it is here, lol.

Let's be honest: this is just a way for BS supporters to claim racism talking points to even some scores.

[nadinbrzezinski]

248. I am press, I live in San Diego

and you do carry a passport when you go vote because you have been told you are NOT A CITIZEN and a license is not enough of an ID? Now you are again tripling down on telling me that it did not happen.

By the way, my candidate is BIG MONEY... I do not support anybody so try that tired micro aggression somewhere else.

You keep also telling me I am not latino, or immigrant. I suppose that my long form birth cert from the Estado de Mexico, issued by MEXICAN authorities would NOT be sufficient for you. Nor would be the MEXICAN PASSPORT issued by the Foreign Office. For that matter the naturalization certificate issued by Immigration and naturalization service would be insufficient for you. The US Passport really shows no data as to being an immigrant.

Your racism, and yes it is exactly that, reeks.

Nor have I said at any moment that being profiled by a WHITE old lady in San Diego is the equivalent of getting profiled by San Diego PD in places like Lincoln Heights or Mt Hope, that is also one thing you have, and continue to make up. Why is that. I have no clue, nor care, but you have revealed yourself to be one nasty person.

For the record SDPD does profile heavily in those neighborhoods, and engages heavily in stop and frisk polices, as well as gentrifying areas like City Heights and North Park,. They do, far less, in mostly white Middle and UPPER class neighborhoods. I gave you the stop data, RAW, from the department. I suppose you will not believe that data either,

[R B Garr]

252. You're just trying to pin a hide on me, so you know I can't answer this bullshit

for what it is. Your meanderings about racism are just a way to gain control over the topic to even some scores. You can't be taken seriously when you compare having an accent to being raped. You sound racist yourself when you say that black lives don't matter when you compare your accent to young blacks being shot in the street. You are just trying to make things about you for your own control issues. Your dialogue about it is just not to be taken seriously,

Hence,

Who care if you are press. I've known real [press, and I'll stick with them.


Look at your continued dishonesty: no one said you are not Latino. I live in Southern California, and I've lived in San Diego. It is very diverse, and no one would accuse you of not being Latino. I'm married to a Mexican-American. No one doubts that you had trouble at Immigration.

Please explain how your trouble getting your paperwork through Immigration or having an accent is like getting raped. You are just trying to insert yourself into a dialogue to make things about you so you can talk about racism so you can shut people here down. It's very transparent what your motivations are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

259. Walk back now somewhat

You keep telling me that I have not been profiled. Just because it was during voting in 2004 does not mean it did not meet the definition from not just a fucking dictionary or for that matter the Registrar.

You keep telling me until now, that this did not happen. It did.

There are other micro aggressions that happen every day.

It is not dishonesty to note it.

It really it is not. After all racism and profiling are not just done by cops or involve guns. And for the record, Latinos are also at a higher risk than whites of getting stopped and frisked and shot by cops. Less than AA. You keep though driving those stakes

The ones who win with this divide and conquer is the GOP and ultimately white supremacists

[R B Garr]

262. Your entire input has been about me personally.

I'm not interested in feeding your ego. That looks like the real problem here. I'm bored with it. You are just trying to make yourself a victim so you can diminish racism talking points for your "friends" who objected to the BLM activists. That is truly vile. Own it.

[R B Garr]

254. You sound racist yourself when you imply that Latinos have accents.

That is a very racists statement. Latinos don't have accents. My husband is Mexican-American and he doesn't have an accent. I know many, many, many, many Hispanics in Southern California, and they don't have accents. It's racist to ascribe those attributes to people, which is what you have done.

Now, how would I know if you have an accent. I don't know what you sound like, but if you say you do, fine. Talk about a nasty person; you are just trying to pin a hide on me when you know I can't respond. I know exactly where this comes from because of your comments about PUMA's and something I said to you about that, but since you use it so often, I didn't realize that YOU meant it as an insult. So basically,, YOU can insult people, but you don't like to be insulted. That's just bullying.

Your passport issues don't amount to racial profiling. You should look up definitions for racial profiling. I could link things here, but I'm sure you will just try to get my posts hidden, which is what this is about.

I see now why you weren't taken seriously with your question IN ATA some time back. It's been a real mistake to ever have given you the benefit of the doubt. I see for myself what you are.

[nadinbrzezinski]

256. What part of I do as an immigrant are you still missing

[R B Garr]

258. You've made about 100 posts about me personally,mostly vile comments,

so I doubt this is about you being an Immigrant.

[nadinbrzezinski]

261. Well you say I said Latinos have an accent

You keep building that.

I have an accent since English (or American for that matter) are not my native tongue.

And I am pointing out your ignorance if I were to be nice

[R B Garr]

263. How the fuck would I know what you sound like.

Your only claim to victimhood is that you have an accent. That's vile. Own it.

This is REALLY boring. You haven't gotten a post hidden, so move on. And if you do, big whoop. That's what this has been about anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

265. I said I was profiled due to my heavy accent

About 100 posts ago

One of your "friends" treestar, even went far more racist and was hidden after another poster alerted her.

Reading comp also matters

The straw you have built is the size of Everest

[davidpdx]

251. I am from Portland and live in Asia, but that is neither here nor there

My point is ALL PoC face harassment and abuse by police. I simply pointed out the name of a good documentary. Watch it, don't watch it. I don't care. It really is your loss.

[R B Garr]

255. Really? If I linked to wiki on who Martin Luther King is, you would probably think it

maybe...pedantic or condescending. I know PoC experience discrimination, especially from police. That was pretty much my point. The poster who is just trying to get my posts hidden in this thread is comparing her experience at the Immigration office about someone giving her the stink eye about her accent is equivalent to young AA's being pulled over or targeted by police merely because of the color of their skin. She just wants control over the racism topics so she can diminish them for her "friend's" candidate.....she mentioned that from the beginning. It's really transparent what her motives are.

ISo, it's not an honest conversation in this thread, and I think you were being honest but didn't realize the context, so thanks for that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

257. None is trying to have nothing hidden

Last edited Tue Sep 22, 2015, 02:41 PM - Edit history (2)

If I were would be alerting I am not. You are posting pretty racist crap. Own it

Oh and edit history number 2.

It was not at immigration, but at the local precinct

Again, reading comp

That said, la migra has a well earned reputation for racism. But hey, neither here or there.

[R B Garr]

260. Own it youself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. And another micro aggresion,

[treestar]

133. you claimed you have or had a heavy accent

and yet claim so much expertise, experience and general brilliance! I find that inconsistent! Please explain.

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. Keep the micro agresion,

for the rest of the class, this confounding of heavy accents with intelligence is not just a micro aggression, but racist.

Very, very, very revealing.

[treestar]

138. Learning a language is an intellectual exercise

so the less the accent, the more the learning. You claim to be smarter than others, so it follows you'd lose the accent the fastest. I did not say people with a heavy accent were dumb, as you insinuate. In fact, I admire them for functioning in a second language. But among such people the smartest among them would lose their accent the fastest. And that would have to be you. I consider it inconsistent with your claims about your expertise, experience and abilities.

This is a major aggression as I may have caught you making an untrue claim in order to make yourself a bigger victim.

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. You keep with this line of racist reasoning

and attacking me for claims i have not made, but obviously are in your imagination.

Please, this is extremely revealing to the rest of the class.

The racism just well, oozes, so now I will think of you and your friend as racists.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

145. I agree completely.

Gandhi's accent shows he was a complete simpleton.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

155. I do not alert, even on racists,

but you are exposing your own ignorance, as well as your character. Take a time out and contemplate your ethnic and linguistic ignorance. There is no correlation between accent and intelligence. I will try to focus on loving you, sister. I really will.

If you reply, I will not see it. I am too disgusted right now to remain on DU. I am going to take a shower and get ready to go to a Bernie meetup in a couple of hours. No more hate for me today, thank you very much. Thank Goddess for love, joy and Bernie's campaign. Over and out!

[brooklynite]

231. Talk about a flame war...

[Admiral Loinpresser]

243. yes, it's shameful n/t

[blackspade]

267. I'd like to see the data to back this up.

Cultural assimilation is an asymmetrical process at best.
I have several friends that have been in the US for decades and still have thick accents, two are PhDs.
Are they outlyers in the study your are quoting?

[artislife]

271. Explain Henry Kissenger then.

Booyah.

He is the bff of your candidate.

[demtenjeep]

283. because there is none

haven't you figured that out yet?

[Admiral Loinpresser]

113. Raising taxes on the rich

is one of Bernie's biggest applause lines. Reaganism has been a complete and dangerous failure. People don't buy that neoliberal bullshit anymore.

The era of big, planet destroying capitalism is over.

[R B Garr]

120. Applause lines are great. I love them, too.

Reality is something else. I doubt we would see a bloodbath like the Mondale electoral college, but it's still unknown how touting raised taxes will go over on a national level. You must know that to be true because Sanders himself hasn't bothered with it before now....

Pro tip: calling people names probably won't go over very well outside your echo chamber.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

123. Last I checked,

a majority of Americans are in favor of raising taxes on the filthy rich. I am proud to name call the rich. As a class they are generally stupid, racist and vote against their own economic interest, in favor of unsustainable insanity.

[R B Garr]

124. Yes, those sound like great applause lines!

[Admiral Loinpresser]

135. These applause lines are backed by the majority. n/t

[treestar]

140. I'd need a cite to that

That a majority support raising taxes on the rich. There are so many voters who don't want that because they think, delusional, that they are going to be rich one day.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

141. Sure thing.

Here's a smattering from a casual search:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/05/05/gallup_52_percent_of_americans_think_we_should_use_heavy_taxes_on_the_rich.html

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/03/14/most-in-u-s-favor-raising-taxes-on-the-rich-poll-says/

http://www.gallup.com/poll/182987/americans-continue-say-wealth-distribution-unfair.aspx

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/polls-show-most-americans-support-raising-taxes-on-wealthy/

[blackspade]

268. Raising taxes on the rich is a winner among the 99%

Progressive taxation is what gave us the best and most secure economic years within the capitalist system.

It gets applause because it resonates with those that aren't rich.

[R B Garr]

270. Yes, and it would have been great if Bernie had run for President much earlier

and he would have been elected no problemo if he had just explained all that to us 30 years ago, but he didn't run. I wonder why, hmmm.

[blackspade]

273. So, are you for progressive taxation or not?

Most people are.

That is why speeches about correcting wealth inequality resonates with large segments of the electorate.

[R B Garr]

277. Here's Clinton talking about the billionaire class at the 2008 Democratic Convention

Great applause lines! The poster Vanilla Rhapsody posted this recently, and I really enjoyed seeing it again. To answer your question, yes, Bernie has some great ideas about taxation, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=hRPCkyqJT14#t=6

[blackspade]

280. I'm asking you what your opinion is.

Not Clinton, not Sanders, but you.
Are you for progressive taxation?
Do you think that the top marginal tax rate on income should increase?
How about for dividens?
Raising the SS cap?
Eliminating corporate loopholes?

Take a stand.
Or are there other platform planks you think are important?

[cui bono]

193. Um... because this is the first time he's running for a national office???

As to speaking to all the issues, he has done that. He was on the streets in the 60's fighting for civil rights, got arrested for it. He has railed against all of this on the house and senate floors. He runs on all of this when he is up for re-election in NH. He talks about all of this at his town halls and when he goes door to door in his constituency. He's been ranting about all of this inequality for decades! He's on a national tour about it now because he's running for national office. Not sure what you are complaining about or why you seem surprised/confused.

And no, the comment JDPriestly was responding to was not saying what you say at all. It was simply Republican talking points/positions and questioning why Bernie's voting record didn't line up with the Republicans.

[R B Garr]

216. Um, there are reasons BS has not run a national campaign as a socialist before

and the reasons are not hard to figure out. And that's not at all how I read JD's post. How lame to say that anything you disagree with about Bernie is a Republican talking point.

[cui bono]

217. LOL... those are Republican talking points. I'm not the only one who mentioned it.

Doesn't want taxes, thinks govt can't run anything well and thinks reducing the debt is important. So yeah, Republican talking points. Or if you are just being technical, Republican positions.

I didn't see where that poster said anything about Bernie that I disagreed with. What point about him are you referring to?

So how many members of the house run national campaigns? How many senators? Please provide links to examples of this. Thanks!

[R B Garr]

218. LOL yourself. List Sanders previous national campaigns, thanks.

List reasons Sanders hasn't run as a socialist on a national stage until now, Thanks.

List reasons how so-called "progressives" can throw key voting blocs of Democrats under the bus to prop up Bernie. Thanks.

LOL

[cui bono]

236. Do you not understand that he hasn't run for national office yet? Wow. I explained it already.

WTF are you going on about now? What does this even mean?

List reasons how so-called "progressives" can throw key voting blocs of Democrats under the bus to prop up Bernie. Thanks.

LOL

And I take it you concede the fact that that poster listed all Republican talking points. We're making progress, let's not stop there. Re-read my post where I explained the whole Sanders not running for national office, and if you think he was supposed to go national with his campaigns where he ran for representative of Vermont and for Senator of Vermont, then please provide examples of others having done the same. I don't know if you didn't understand my post or if you are being obtuse on purpose, but you were the one demanding others only post reasonable responses or leave, so why don't you try being reasonable. The post you just made is quite silly and either you intended that or you just didn't bother to read my post that you responded to.

[R B Garr]

237. Wow yourself

List reasons why Sanders didn't run for President in 1980 as a socialist. wow. thanks.

List reasons Sanders didn't run for President in 2012. wow. Thanks.

[cui bono]

238. I don't know why. How and why should I know?

What does it matter? He's been working for all these issues for decades. He's been arrested for protesting for civil rights, he's ranted on the house floor and senate floor for decades.

1980 was before Reaganomics, before "trickle down" and before the income disparity began to slide so far off the scale. I'm sure he didn't feel the need then. I don't think he particularly wants to be president so much as he feels he NEEDS to be. No one else is fighting the fight for the people. Hillary sure isn't, she's a centrist/corporatist.

I believe that he's running now because the corporate greed has gotten out of control and the Dem Party has in large part gotten in bed with the banksters and large corporations. He most likely feels he is the only one willing to take them on and speak for the people and so he's out there doing it because he feels the country needs to be saved.

What's wrong with that? Why should he have run for president in 1980? Why didn't Hillary run in 1980? Why didn't Biden (maybe he did, I don't remember)? What does that have to do with anything?

Why do you keep rolling your eyes when you are the one demanding reasonable discourse?

[R B Garr]

244. List reasons Bernie didn't run for President in 1992.

List reasons Bernie didn't run for President in 1996.

List reasons Bernie didn't run for President in 2000

List reasons Bernie didn't run in 2004.

List reasons Bernie didn't run for President in 1988.


When you look at what you wrote, it's not that different than what I was saying. Edit: And quit the BULLSHIT. The MAIN reason you want to interpret the comment you keep dwelling on is to perpetuate the Clinton-is-a-Republican" fucked up talking point. So fucking sick of it.

Now what's REALLY funny is to look at the title of this thread and its subject matter and there is no denying how BS's supporters nasty reputation has come about.

is very appropriate. sick of this shit. I've never seen anything like this kind of hostility and just sheer bullying over a 74-year-old man who has never bothered to run for President before.

Now maybe you can get this post hidden since you BS supporters like to shut people up as per threads in the BS group of how to target people. UGH!!

[cui bono]

266. Your post makes no sense at all.

I have no idea what the hell you are even trying to say. You don't seem to have any point to make. If you do, get to it, don't ramble about nonsensical things like why Bernie didn't run for president earlier. What does that have to do with anything?

And how did you come up with this? Please connect the dots for me:

The MAIN reason you want to interpret the comment you keep dwelling on is to perpetuate the Clinton-is-a-Republican" fucked up talking point.

I'm pointing out that the post in questions is right wing talking points simply because the post in question is right wing talking points. And not just talking points, but policy positions. Are you welcoming of right wing policy positions being touted on DU?

And read your own post if you want to see nasty posts on DU. Your hatred of Bernie supporters is really ugly. I don't understand it at all. Talk about hostility. It's not coming from Bernie supporters in the way it is coming from you and a bunch of HRC supporters.

But anyway... what is your point that you keep failing to make? Surely it must have something to do with what we were discussing. Hopefully you can make it without descending into another hostile rant like the one above.

[R B Garr]

269. I have to laugh again at this thread title and the contents of the thread.

This kind of stuff is now all over the net.

Did you read the OP? Read the OP.

[cui bono]

279. So you can't explain what your question of why Bernie hasn't run for president before

Last edited Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:24 PM - Edit history (1)

has to do with anything?



Oh, and you didn't show me how what I've said was whatever you accused it of being, my MAIN point of saying that post was right wing talking points or something. Please, enlighten me.

[artislife]

272. No it doesn't

He was politically active his entire career.


Liberty Union campaigns
Mayor of Burlington
U.S. House of Representatives
U.S. SenateBudget
Senate Budget Committe
Committee assignments
2016 president run


Some people might say he has "experience".

The fact that he didn't run before isn't that he didn't have a national platform, it means NO ONE at this time has one that is good enough. There have been 44 presidents in the history of this country. That should tell you something.

I doubt it will, though.

[R B Garr]

274. lol, I never said he doesn't have "experience."

I'm not sure of the point you're making about the 44 prior Presidents. I'm just saying that some people might wonder why, given the 30-plus years of experience that he hasn't run for national office before. Why did he wait so long. And he is an Establishment candidate himself with all his years in Washington, but he apparently didn't want to run with the big dogs, so he's been complacent in Vermont.

[artislife]

275. "Some" people. Got it. nt

[R B Garr]

276. I counted about 9 elections he could have campaigned in

but he didn't. Clinton and Obama both ran when they were in their 40's.

Bernie was 39 in 1980, and there have been NINE elections since then.

[artislife]

278. And EVERYONE must follow the formula. nt

[R B Garr]

247. .........

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. You feel ok? You missed a turn at Albuquerque?

You sure you are at a progressive site? That was the RW trifecta of talking points.

[rhett o rick]

73. Seem you can't make statements but just frame everything in the form of questions. nm

[Scootaloo]

127. Wow. Just wow.

[cui bono]

188. So let's see...

Questioning the benefit of taxes... Republican talking point. Check.

Govt is bad... Republican talking point. Check.

Need debt reduction... Republican talking point. Check.


Yes, you are either the crazy one or you need to turn off Faux News. No wonder you are anti-Bernie.

[LondonReign2]

15. Yeah, classy

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251549982

[SonderWoman]

17. A channel 4 nbc news report from Vermont. The horror!

At least I don't link to white supremacist sites like I've seen here.

And whose hidden post was posted first?

[cui bono]

205. Wow. You really are a GOP operative, aren't you?

I really hope you are not a Hillary supporter with all your Republican talking points above in this thread and that OP you posted. That would almost be taking it to a new low, but I'm not sure that was lower than our infamous "Not Enough, Bernie" low point, but I think it is lower than the OP that attempted to swiftboat him claiming he said racism is over. So bravo... You're earned a spot alongside the person who posted the most vile OP ever on DU, and that one, I think, is actually a Hillary supporter, not sure though, since they are attempting to destroy the person who best serves the interests of the poeple. Congrats!

[beam me up scottie]

66. Heh heh. Well played!

[rhett o rick]

72. Do you support the for profit prison industry? nm

[MoveIt]

112. havent you offended 5 juries yet?

[treestar]

137. and expect to run for President

without anything mean ever being said, even lies and propaganda? Not very likely.

[99Forever]

18. Camp Weathervane talks their asinine shit...

... and their candidate keeps dropping support. Dirty politicians campaign dirty, it's in their DNA.

Bernie talks issues and keeps climbing. The Revolution is now.

[senz]

45. +100 Sums it up.

[DanTex]

20. LOL. An overall positive article about Bernie's enthusiastic supporters is "propaganda" because

they dared quote one person who had a different view?

Thou shalt not question the great leader!

[Skwmom]

23. It's much more than the one quote. It's the word choices which have been a continuing

theme for weeks now. And no it isn't an overall positive article.

[R B Garr]

95. It is lol. Really unbelievable. And in the meantime, some crank on the internet

writes a Twitter comment about Hillary's campaign being in disarray and there is a 150 post thread about how erudite and accomplished that so-called "writer" was. LOL,

[HassleCat]

26. I cry for journalism

Infotainment. They don't even bother to get eligible voters for these "person on the street" things.

[Skwmom]

28. It's not just infotainment. It's a means of propaganda, totally lacking in journalistic integrity

and ethics.

[HassleCat]

29. Probably

They always hew to the conventional wisdom. Many of them do work for the largest corporations in America.

[senz]

44. There is a big difference between working for big corps and owning/managing big corps.

Hillary supporters like to pretend that her "corporate support" is from the worker bees.

[brooklynite]

33. So a liberal UK newspaper is part of the evil corporate media conspiracy now?

Are there membership cards?

[Skwmom]

35. The trash I've read in Mother Jones has taught me that labels are meaningless.

Writing that Sanders is "exploiting" progressives without even trying to support that statement is b.s.

[Eric J in MN]

36. That article is a light-hearted piece about a crowd

...which gathered to see Bernie Sanders.

There was only one negative quote.

[Skwmom]

39. No it is not. n/t

[senz]

42. Uh huh, move along...nothing to see here...

[PosterChild]

102. Absolutely ! If this count as propaganda . .

... waiting till they real shut huts the fan.

[senz]

41. Anything but the truth. The truth is their enemy.

And that's why Bernie, who speaks the truth, scares them.

[Zorra]

55. It's scary to get a look inside the juvenile, unbalanced minds of those spewing

that type of idiotic propaganda.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Alas that can be said for both campaigns

Some fans are, well... I will take the fifth on this. But my irl experience is with HRC supporters. I do not hold the campaign responsible for either the RL fans, or the online personas

[frazzled]

99. Quick! The smelling salts!

Some Italian lady who doesn't even vote here said something to a UK newspaper!

[PosterChild]

104. We've got some pretty sensitive flowers here....

....wonder how they're going to be able to take it when the real shit hit the fan.

[LuvLoogie]

101. Fortunately, Senator Sanders and his supporters

will not have had to surpass over two decades of negative propoganda, smear campaigns and frivolous congressional hearings by the time Bernie endorses Hillary with enthusiasm at the Democratic National Convention next year.

Chin up skwmom. This thing is just getting started.

[workinclasszero]

132. I wish super tuesday would hurry up

and get here.

Then all the MSM BS horserace crap will be out the window finally.

[PosterChild]

103. LOL - if you think this,..

.... softball fluff piece is negative propaganda m wait till the real shit hits the fan !

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. I cannot wait for the real stuff

which will include some coded and not so coded antimsemitism.

Oh and forgot

[PosterChild]

108. No doubt about that,.

... and as they say on the infomercials....

[nadinbrzezinski]

109. Yup, the civil war here is already hotter than it was in 2008

this is where a lot of the talking points are tested, as well as the tear downs, at least in my observation.

[Skwmom]

110. I've been reading negatively slanted articles against Sanders for weeks

and have had my fill of it. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

118. "If you support Bernie, you need to call out this kind of b.s. " - I agree - who wrote the following

"An illegal immigrant??"

No, obviously not, since the article says "Pelgrift, 44, is an Italian citizen and not actually eligible to vote in the US. “But I can promote,” she said. “We average half a vote,” her American husband, Robert, chipped in." So who is making the misleading and libelous comments such as "an illegal immigrant"? They are a master of selective quoting. Where did you find this?

[treestar]

134. Propaganda against the supporters?

Poor things! I guess this will hinder them in convincing others to vote for Bernie. Poor Bernie! this may get in his way. And they say Hillary is "entitled." I guess Bernie is entitled to run under conditions that never ever existed in the history of American elections.

[TheFarS1de]

225. No ...

Your thinking of Hillary and her coronation . Unfortunately Democracy seems to be getting in the way . Gotta hate those voters .

[NCTraveler]

146. Propaganda in politics. No. It can't be true.

Like the propaganda used when someone fought for and brought a known failed military project to their state. Propaganda is everywhere in politics from the candidates to supporters. The whole purity and clean hands argument some are making doesn't pass the honesty test at face value alone.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

220. Ethics because of the F-35?

I disagree.

Here is the relevant information from a a Bernie advocacy group:

Well, I’ve heard Bernie supports the F-35. What is the F-35 and why is it so controversial?

The F-35 Lightning II is a single-engine, single-seat, stealth fighter plane produced by Lockheed Martin, which advertises the aircraft as advanced and affordable, and crucial to maintaining air superiority as U.S. fleets get smaller and older. It has been called the most expensive weapons system in the world.

The major point of controversy is that the project has not been as efficient as Lockheed Martin promised. The cost of the planned 2,457 planes totals $391.1 billion dollars, which is almost twice the initial estimate. In addition, there have been numerous delays and malfunctions during testing.

As such, the F-35 has been the subject of criticism from politicians and government reports. An April 2015 Government Accountability Office (GAO) report notes that “the [F-35] program has experienced significant cost, schedule, and performance problems.”

So is it true that Bernie supports the F-35?

Yes and no. The idea that Bernie supports the F-35 program stems from his positive reception to part of the F-35 fleet being stationed in Vermont.

Nonetheless, Bernie is highly concerned “about cost overruns on the plane.” In June 2014, Bernie called the F-35 program “incredibly wasteful.” Ultimately, however, Bernie realizes that the plane is going to be a reality, and concluded that “as long as the F-35 is deployed anywhere, I believe we should strive to protect the Vermont Air National Guard’s mission and maintain hundreds of jobs here in Vermont.”

While members of Congress have received over $8 million collectively from the F-35’s manufacturer since 2001, Bernie has not accepted any Lockheed Martin contributions.

http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-military-and-veterans/

Notice that Bernie has done nothing unethical here. If he had taken money from Lockheed Martin (he has not, although other members of Congress have), that would be corrupt. Unfortunately, the F-35 simply appears to be boondoggle pork. But since Bernie apparently has no control over the existence of the F-35, he gets some of that pork for his state. As president, I would expect him to try to kill the program. If he didn't I would be disappointed, but I don't begrudge him fighting for the economic benefit of the state he represents now.

[merrily]

195. "If you support Bernie, you need to call out this kind of b.s" Do we really, though?

[still_one]

201. Actually it is a two way street

[brooklynite]

232. "propaganda" implies intent...please share your evidence (preferably not "we all know"...)