If. Biden enters the race Sanders is History

[Ashdric]

Biden is more popular than Sanders. Plus the media will not attack Biden at all. Sanders had benefited from the fact that the MSM has always been Anti-Clinton. Biden will be favorite if he enters the race. He doesn't have an email problem.

[Binkie The Clown]

1. It's been my experience that...

... virtually every political prediction ever made is wrong. I'm sure this one will not be the exception.

[unblock]

46. uh oh! that's a self-referential statement! star trek computers frying out as we speak!

[Kelvin Mace]

62. Computer-Destroying Logic

©2266 by James T. Kirk. All rights reserved.

[Suich]

2. Uh oh...

[Warren Stupidity]

3. Polls say otherwise and Biden is a terrible candidate.

I'd say Clinton is the one who will be in trouble, mostly because the money spigot will go to Joe in an 'anyone but sanders' effort. Sanders is funded by the people so he is immune to the control of the spigot.

[Ashdric]

5. You assume that only one candidate can be in trouble

Plus, polls don't say otherwise. Explain how they do.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. No I assert that the money spigot funds Clinton and would fund Biden

if the spigot owners decide Clinton is no longer viable.

Biden's non-announcement over the last few weeks gave him a bump in the polls but that bump appeared to come from Clinton's supporters not Sanders.

[Ken Burch]

40. If Bernie were to withdraw(which he won't)following a Biden declaration

virtually none of Bernie's supporters would go to Biden(certainly no female Bernie supporters would back Biden, since they all remember how he hung Anita Hill out to dry during the Thomas confirmation hearings...something Biden has never exactly apologized for).

And if Bernie were knocked out by a Biden entry, it's hard to imagine Biden's poll numbers holding up, since most of Biden's potential support comes from conservative establishment Dems who would only back Joe to stop Bernie(and would then go back to HRC once Bernie had been seen off).

[Prairiegale]

95. Whoaaa No Bernie supporter would vote for Biden?

I would. Why? Well, there is just too much about Clinton I do not like. I am old an remember all the scandals, proved or not. My old way of thinking is that if you are in so many scandals, and are always being investigated about one thing or another.....where there is smoke there is fire. Don't like her, don't trust her. Actually, she makes my skin crawl as much as the GOP. Biden is just another inside Dem, but that is still better than Hillary for me. Just my opinion.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

100. If Bernie drops, the next closest thing is O'Malley, not Biden or Clinton. nt

[tblue37]

107. Yep. O'Malley would be my second choice after Bernie. nt

[cantbeserious]

4. Popular Or Not - Joe Biden Is Another Defender Of Crony Capitalism And The 1%

eom

[emsimon33]

28. Biden is more likable than Hillary but cut from the same corporate cloth

[cantbeserious]

29. Right You Are - Establishment Republicans - Or - DLC Third Way Dems - All Paid For By Corporations

eom

[tblue37]

112. Biden's ties to banks and credit card companies and his son Hunter's job with a

bank could cause him problems with the 99% voters:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/31/us/politics/banking-ties-could-hurt-joe-biden-in-race-with-populist-overtone.html?_r=0

"Banking Ties Could Hurt Joe Biden in Race With Populist Overtone"

(SNIP)

Not mentioned was Mr. Biden’s own history with the financial services industry, an economic power in his home state of Delaware, or the critics who saw him as too close to credit-card companies in more than three decades in the Senate.

But if Mr. Biden decides to run for the Democratic presidential nomination, his Senate reputation as a friend to financial institutions could be a significant obstacle, especially if he wants to make inroads with the party’s liberal base, which has become increasingly skeptical and often passionately hostile to anything connected to Wall Street.

(SNIP)

In the late 1990s, amid an increase in bankruptcy filings, the financial services industry began pushing for rules that would make it more difficult for consumers to seek bankruptcy protection. Among those courted by the industry was Mr. Biden, who represented the home state of a number of vested companies, including, at the time, the credit-card issuer MBNA Corporation. (Bank of America bought MBNA in 2006.) MBNA executives and employees contributed roughly $200,000 to Mr. Biden’s campaigns from 1989 to 2010, making the company his largest corporate donor during that time, according to data from the Center for Responsive Politics.

(SNIP)

At one point during the debate, Ms. Warren, then a Harvard professor, singled out Mr. Biden for what she saw as his anti-consumer role.

(SNIP)

[cantbeserious]

122. Once A 1% Minion - Always A 1% Minion

eom

[HooptieWagon]

6. You think Clinton will graciously step aside for Biden?

The civil war in the Third Way will leave Bernie unscathed. I'm loving it.

[Maedhros]

7. Maybe. We'll see.

I remember in past campaigns Biden was considered an unstable candidate because he tends to make gaffes when unscripted.

I think Biden's candidacy is mostly wishful thinking by the Democratic right wing.

[trof]

8. BWAHHAHHA

Delusional

[SonderWoman]

9. He's already in 2nd place...

And hasn't even started campaigning.

[leftofcool]

17. He sure is.

[bobbobbins01]

33. You're right, Hillary is toast if he enters the race.

She'll drop from 2nd to 3rd and Bernie will basically run away with the whole thing. It'll be a landslide. She can maybe recover from getting kicked down to 2nd place, but once she slides again that party is over. Good observation.

[SonderWoman]

48. Yeah okay. Despite all evidence, polls, and statistics...

That say otherwise.

[Ken Burch]

42. No, Biden is still in third at best.

And if you think Biden is better than Bernie, it just means you don't want Democrats to have a progressive nominee..

[Skwmom]

11. Anti-Clinton? I have yet to see her have one TOUGH interview and the amount

of fluff articles is unbelievable.

It's up to Biden whether or not he wants to enter the race.

[ZM90]

12. I predict it will make it easier for Bernie Sanders to become the Democratic nominee.

I will donate $10.00 to DU if Biden gets in and Bernie Sanders does not become the Democratic nominee but only under the condition that you must donate $10.00 to DU if Biden does get in and Sanders ends up the nominee. Deal?

[arcane1]

13. If you say so. It certainly isn't going to change my vote n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

14. a lot of people are totally uninterested in supporting Biden in the primaries.

His history as author of the drug war, supporter of the bankruptcy bill, etc.

I think your analysis is seriously off kilter.

Plus I dont think he's getting in, but if he did it would siphon support away from Hillary- who occupies a similar establishment valence- not Sanders.

[RufusTFirefly]

15. Policy-wise, Biden has much in common with President-elect Hillary

Plus, he has a personality to boot.

If Biden runs, it will be devastating to Clinton.

No Bernie supporters who have carefully compared the voting records of the two men should even consider voting for Biden in the primaries. Unless of course they've suddenly decided that the disastrous Iraq invasion and the Constitution-shredding PATRIOT {sic} ACT are good things. Don't let that twinkle in his eye mislead you. The Senator from MasterCard is basically just Hillary in a suit and tie.

And no, Bernie won't be history. He'll make history.

[cprise]

97. They're counting on the white hair confusing voters :)

Desperate, I think. But as you point out, there's really no other reason to field Biden other than "he's got personality".

Its too bad that "Biden" looks nothing like "Sanders" on a printed ballot.

[olddots]

16. may I quote you ?

[LWolf]

18. I don't think so.

Biden will split Clinton's support; he's more "popular" with her supporters, and doesn't offer what Sanders does to those who are supporting him.

It's interesting that you chose to use the word "popular." My grandson is running for class president. We spent some time today talking about his campaign, and ended with, "It's good to learn how to run a campaign. In the long run, though, too often in high school it's more a popularity contest than an election based on record or issues."

It's sad when adult campaigns that impact people's lives in a significant way are still, for some, about "popularity."

[Oldenuff]

19. Nonsense

Democrats who really want to affect change,aren't going to be persuaded to vote Biden.In fact,I will be even more determined than before to vote for the ONLY candidate that really offers anything substantive.

I'd vote Biden over Clinton every day of the week if Sanders wasn't in the race.

[HereSince1628]

20. If it makes you feel better to think that, go ahead and think that.

But the evidence seems to be Biden hurts Clinton a bit more.

Sanders loses a bit of anti-Clinton support. The left is pretty strongly linked to Sanders and Biden doesn't represent an alternative that's on the progressive pushing left.

[ms liberty]

21. Your concern is noted. n/t

[wundermaus]

22. now that's funny....

[Cheese Sandwich]

23. I think Biden is just on standby in case Clinton implodes.

Unless she crashes he probably won't even enter.

[jwirr]

24. I agree that Biden is very liked. But this is the year

of the issues. Is he going to be much different than Hillary on the issues? Being like is the new meme. But Bernie's support comes from his stance on the issues. We see him as authentic, as telling the truth and as consistently on the side of the little guy.

[restorefreedom]

32. +100 nt

[cprise]

98. If its superficial 'like' then his trajectory would resemble Clinton's

once he becomes a real candidate.

Of course, if the party brass (incl. Biden) times it so he misses most of the debates -- and IF Biden wins the nomination -- then he'll mainly have to debate a Republican and it will be on terms and assumptions that DC is much more comfortable with.

The establishment is trying to salvage their narratives. They know that in many cases its what stands between them and prison and penury.

[jwirr]

120. Yes, when it comes to the establishment the less they

expose their ideas for the future the better. So you are right. Debating the Rs would allow them to debate the issue they want to talk about.

Bernie talks about them all. We want to change the direction we have been going.

[oasis]

25. News update: Hillary doesn't have an e-mail problem.

[Pope Sweet Jesus]

49. Reality update: She's not trustworthy

[pandr32]

64. Why?

Sounds like you have been happily gobbling up the well-funded propaganda from the conservatives. What are you doing here?

[Pope Sweet Jesus]

65. Don't tell me that - tell that to the people.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2015/08/27/clinton-hits-lows-on-favorability-trustworthiness-in-poll/

Here's one dated 9/15 with graphics included.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/16/upshot/signs-of-hillary-clintons-troubles-in-charts.html?_r=0

[highprincipleswork]

26. If Biden enters the race, Hillary is history

Just as likely as what you propose.

All folks who adore Hillary better press her to call for more debates. If she cannot win this thing fair and square she may not win very much at all.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. Laugh. In your dreams.

I welcome Biden to the race, because Biden sucks down Hillary voters. Biden is nothing like Sanders, and almost entirely like Hillary. So he splits the Hillary vote and makes it that much easier for Bernie to win. If Biden enters the race, it's Hillary whose dreams go down in flames.

[MissDeeds]

35. That's exactly right

If Biden enters the race, he will draw votes from Hillary. They are both part of the Washington establishment and voters want a break from the status quo. Biden's entrance into the race would hurt Hillary and help Bernie.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. No. It will be a three way race with Hillary losing more "moderate" votes to Biden.

The Not as Bad moderates will split their votes giving the progressives a better chance to win.

[restorefreedom]

31. nope.

there have been several poll studies that show bidens presence in the race hurts hillary way more than any other candidate. they are easy to find on google if you are interested. since you did not provide a link i do not feel compelled to provide a rebuttal link but they're there.

biden might have higher name rec than sanders. very different than being more "popular". and name rec will be overcome.

not looking like biden getting in, but if he does it will be a third way slugfest between him and hillary, with bernie and om rising above the bullshit and presenting the sane alternative.

[WillyT]

34. You're New Here... Take A Chill-Pill And Get A Clue...

[tularetom]

36. Clarence Thomas, Clarence Thomas, Clarence Thomas

Plus bankruptcy "reform", the Patriot act, and lots more.

Biden has almost as much baggage as Hillary Clinton but a lot less of the stench. He won't get many Sanders voters to switch.

[magical thyme]

37. welcome to DU.

Biden will cut into Clinton's support and money, not Bernie's.

Bernie is not "unpopular;" he is unknown. The more he gets known, the more support he draws.

Biden has numerous major strikes against him on issues that are important today, that will haunt his candidacy and for which there is no good answer. The media loves to portray Biden as "gaffe-prone, Crazy Uncle Joe." His only protection will be as the 1%'s alternative to Hillary.

[artislife]

43. Hee

This made me choke on my mint ice cream!

[virtualobserver]

73. I think that you should be a little more sensitive to your fellow DU'ers

talking about ice cream at this time of night.....now I'm going to have to go get some.

[artislife]

91. Your title line set up

Oh my gosh, made me laugh harder! Can't believe the initial post got a hide.

Who says there are no more H supporters on this board!?!

[virtualobserver]

93. offensive four letter words sometimes survive a hide.....

but offensive twenty-four letter words are almost always hidden.

I am glad to hear that the scolding tone of my previous title line was sufficiently excessive....

[Nothingcleverjustray]

39. Uncle Joe's really cool,

For a really rich guy thats really not into you or your problems. Or the electorates for that matter.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. He's loaded

Uncle Joe's really cool, For a really rich guy thats really not into you or your problems. Or the electorates for that matter.

Biden's net worth is estimated to be between $39,000 and $800,000 according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/joe-biden-says-he-is-the-poorest-man-in-congress/

[underthematrix]

52. Yep. When both were in the Senate, Bernie and Joe used to compete over who was the poorest

of the two. It was a running joke. Biden has great credibility was the white working class.

[left-of-center2012]

44. If I get married again

She'll be rich, sexy, and drive a Mercedes.

[GoneOffShore]

45. Thanks for your concern.

[cali]

47. lol. bullshit.

[Garrett78]

50. Biden would hurt Clinton, Sanders and the Democratic Party as a whole.

Last edited Sat Sep 19, 2015, 10:53 PM - Edit history (1)

If Biden enters the race, of course he'll pull more support from Clinton than from Sanders, but not nearly enough to give Sanders the nomination. And Sanders will receive even less media coverage, as all the talk will be about Clinton vs. Biden. Meanwhile, Clinton (still a heavy favorite to be the nominee) is made to look weak (this is what you'll hear: "See, even Democrats don't think she can win the general election.&quot . This is why the Clintons have reportedly (and understandably) been quite agitated by all the Biden talk.

And if Biden were to manage to get the nomination, then we have a candidate who is even more objectionable than Clinton from a leftist/progressive standpoint.

No, as with all the free advertising the unanswered GOP debates are garnering for the Republican Party message, a Biden run would only benefit the Republican Party. A party whose pool of candidates are arguably even worse than they were in 2012 when Noam Chomsky called them "off the international spectrum of sane behavior." With a very favorable electoral college map, if the Democratic Party nominee doesn't win (easily) in 2016, the Democratic Party should just close up shop. No, not really. But it will have some major soul-searching to do. Will Rogers was right to say he didn't belong to an organized (or highly competent) political party--he was a Democrat.

[Attorney in Texas]

90. EXACTLY!

[onecaliberal]

51. Biden will take votes from HRC, not Bernie.

Recent polling confirms that.

[Garrett78]

54. And basic logic confirms that.

But it wouldn't be substantial enough to erase the lead Clinton has in the vast majority of states. If Clinton isn't the nominee, Biden will be the nominee. It won't be Sanders.

[onecaliberal]

55. It won't be HRC

[Boomer]

59. The lead won't hold

There is a flaw to your logic. Clinton holds the lead in states now, but only because she's a known quantity and Sanders is not. She is the default choice for Democrats who know nothing about Bernie Sanders.

As Sanders brings his campaign to each new state, his numbers go up. Once people hear his message, he gains converts very quickly, and he draws them from Democrats, Independents and even Republicans.

If anyone caught the Rachel Maddow show this past week, the polling from Vermont shows that Sanders is tied for first place at 12% with both Trump and Ben Carson among REPUBLICANS. Vermonters already feel the Bern. The rest of the country isn't that far behind.

[Garrett78]

66. There are many states Sanders simply will not win.

Vermont is not a good barometer. Look, I'm a leftist and like a lot of what Sanders stands for, but his campaign is (in his own words) an effort to launch a grassroots political movement. He is not, however, going to be nominated. That was never a realistic goal.

As I wrote in my own reply to the OP, Biden running would hurt Clinton and Sanders and the Democratic Party as a whole.

[Attorney in Texas]

89. Recent polling: Clinton - 47%; Sanders - 27%; Biden - 15% (or centrists 62%; progressive 27%). Even

if Biden takes support from Clinton (say Biden takes 15% from Clinton and 0% from Sanders so its Clinton - 32%; Sanders - 27%; Biden - 30%), that does not help get Sanders to 51% of the delegates.

For Sanders to win, it is not enough that Clinton lose support; Clinton has to lose support to Sanders. Shifting votes from Clinton to Biden (or Clinton to O'Malley) does not give the nomination to Sanders. Sanders has to be the candidate who is picking up the support that Clinton is losing for him to get the nomination. Biden makes that avenue either 10 times harder or impossible.

[Half-Century Man]

53. What happens, happens.

In spite of the predictions of anyone; I will continue to support Bernie as the best nominee for the Democratic party's candidate.

[SusanCalvin]

60. Exactly.

Que sera, sera.

Don't know why you or I even bother to reply to this stuff, as it can't possibly make any difference.

Well, I do know about me, come to think of it - I'm bored and sleepy.

[Half-Century Man]

63. I'm bored

Thats my story

[peacebird]

56. LOL! Biden draws support away from Hillary, helping Sanders!

[Attorney in Texas]

85. The progressive wing of the party is not big enough to get 51% of the delegates if Biden and Clinton

split the rest of the party.

Biden draws some support from Clinton, that's true, but unless Sanders is the one who draws that support from Clinton, Sanders has no likely pathway to 51% of the delegates.

We Sanders supporters must realize that the rationale behind Biden's hypothetical candidacy is to "rescue" the party from Sanders.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

102. Well, of course that's the rationale.

And just like the rationale behind an aggressive war in Iraq, it just isn't going to work.

If there are 3 or more people with candidates in the race, it very well may be that NO one gets 51%. In which case it's brokered convention time, with whoever has the MOST delegates sitting in good position.

[Attorney in Texas]

110. I'm a Sanders supporter, but I promise you the Democratic establishment does not pass up a sitting

VP and the candidate who has the most party establishment endorsements to pick the most progressive candidate in a brokered convention.

A Biden candidacy hurts Clinton but it hurts Sanders' chances more.

[peacebird]

113. I realize TPTB want to 'rescue' the party from Sanders, screw TPTB.

I'm voting for Bernie

[Attorney in Texas]

115. Agreed. I worry that some Sanders supporters encourage a Biden candidacy without realizing that it

is an idea born of the desire to stop Sanders.

[SusanCalvin]

57. Possibly, but he won't.

Bless his heart, I think the only reason he isn't debunking the rumors is party loyalty. (To the wing of the party that considers, Hillary the annointed candidate.)

[DhhD]

58. You've heard of Obama-Biden? Biden-Obama is nothing to worry about, for Sanders. Sanders

is already talking about the mistakes of Obama-Biden. I do not see Biden in a third term.

[Kelvin Mace]

61. Biden has the same problems as HRC

He is owned by his corporate masters and does their bidding.

[pandr32]

68. Sounds like you want to throw in unsubstantiated garbage

for us to read. Why?

[Pope Sweet Jesus]

69. Because it's the truth?

Bankruptcy Act was a huge favorite of the 1%

[pandr32]

71. Still doesn't mean he is "owned"

but that he had his reasons. Yes his son worked for a lender, but Jo Biden went out on a limb for whatever reasons he had. He is not known as a sell-out. Your statement is a gross generalization that can cut both ways, I am sure.

[Pope Sweet Jesus]

72. Excuses. Excuses.

How about the completely inexcusable RAVE Act or his act with Anita Hill, enabling Uncle Tom Thomas to have a seat next to Fat Tony and do absolutely nothing useful.

[pandr32]

81. So please tell me how the Rave Act shows Joe Biden is owned by the 1%

You know he isn't a wealthy man, but one who may have different concerns as a senator than you do as whoever. You slam him for his handling of the Clarence Thomas/ Anita Hill incident and nomination but then fail to mention that he opposed Reagan's nomination of ideologue Bork.
You may not like him, but you have not proven he is owned by the 1%.

[Kelvin Mace]

92. HRC's biggest donors are Wall Street connected

Biden is repsonsible for the 2005 Bankruptcy "Reform" Act, pretty much written by the Banksters.

The evidence is plain for those who wish to see.

[bvf]

67. The hell you say. n/t

[99Forever]

70. Kewl story bro.

Roll another one.

[madokie]

74. In your dreams

you are funny and wrong as hell

[Aerows]

75. If wishes were horses

beggars would ride.

[Motown_Johnny]

76. and they would eat a lot of horse meat.

[Aerows]

77. Just an old saying :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_wishes_were_horses,_beggars_would_ride

[Motown_Johnny]

79. I am familiar with it.

I just always thought it foolish to assume that beggars would choose to ride horses instead of eating.

[Aerows]

80. LOL!

I never thought of that.

What an interesting perspective, my friend

[Motown_Johnny]

78. If Biden enters the race, you then have 2 Party establishment candidates

and one "outsider" as the 3 leaders.


The entire dynamic of the race would change. I think making assumptions now about what would happen is foolish.


I don't really see how a sitting VP could fail to win the nomination if he decides he wants it. Especially one in an administration that has been as effective as this one, but only time will tell.

[Attorney in Texas]

83. The establishment decides who wins in a brokered convention. SPOILER ALERT - it's not Sanders

[Motown_Johnny]

84. It could be that establishment voters will split

the vote and the outsider would have the advantage.


I really do think that the sitting VP wins if he enters the race. That is just the way these things play out.

[Attorney in Texas]

87. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The nominee is who gets 51% of the delegates. If Sanders

enters the convention with 40% of the delegates and Clinton and Biden have 30% each, Sanders does not get the nomination. The people who decide brokered conventions do not choose a progressive candidate over the former Secretary of State who has almost unprecedented party establishment support and does not choose the most liberal candidate over the sitting VP.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

104. If they choose a person with significantly FEWER delegates than the one who has the most

they seriously risk having voters revolt and losing the general. Because the supporters of the person with the most delegates are not simply going to say 'great, I'll vote for the people who stole the nomination!'

[Attorney in Texas]

111. If Sanders has 40%, Clinton 35% and Biden 25%, but Biden drops out and endorses Clinton and

asks his delegates to support Clinton, then it is Sanders 40% and Clinton 60%. Same result if you flip Clinton and Biden in the hypothetical. At the end of the day, Clinton and Biden and ideologically close (Clinton is a hair better on reproductive liberty, putting families ahead of the predatory credit industry, etc., but Biden and Clinton come from the same wing of the party), and each would endorse the other before they would endorse Sanders.

[SusanCalvin]

121. Well, DWS has already shown they don't care if the voters revolt. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

109. that remains to be seen

The idea that the super delegates will overrule the will of the voters is foolish to me. Most of them depend on the voters for their jobs.

I still have faith that the system is not so corrupt that the politicians making back room deals will not over rule the voters.

Of course, I could be wrong. But any nominee who "wins" that way will be seen as illegitimate and have a real problem in the general.

[Attorney in Texas]

114. No one is going to deny the will of the voters, but if a majority of the voters fail to choose one

candidate, there will be endorsements and coalitions and this brokered nomination will not favor the ideological outlier.

We need for Sanders to enter the convention with 51% of the delegates. That is our only path to victory. A Biden candidacy is calculated to "save" the party from a Sanders nomination in the fairly unlikely event that Clinton's campaign collapses.

[Motown_Johnny]

116. the plurality would then be the will of the voters

but this is all hypothetical and not worth arguing about

[Attorney in Texas]

117. If my spouse and I both want to have dinner and the same Indian restaurant, and one kid wants to go

Star Pizza, another kid wants to go to Napoli Pizza, and a third kid wants to go to Grimaldi Pizza, I could argue that a plurality of us want to go to that Indian restaurant, but -- in your heart -- you know that is not true.

Biden and Clinton are two very similar pizza places serving the same mediocre stuff. With that said, more people currently like pizza than Indian food, which is a shame because I love Indian food.

If I am going to talk the family into going to that Indian restaurant, I need to persuade one of the kids that we have had pizza twice this week already and we're sick of pizza and we should try the Indian restaurant for a change because I know they will like it.

As Sanders supporters, it is not enough for us to win that Clinton loses support. That lost support has to come to Sanders to make a difference. If Clinton loses support, but that support goes from Clinton to Biden, we are a lost cause and it is four more year of fucking pizza.

Now let's get out there and remind those kids what a good malai kofta tastes like.

[Attorney in Texas]

82. If Biden runs, he probably stops Sanders from expanding his support beyond the progressive wing of

the party and he probably weakens Clinton sufficiently to jeopardize her chances in the general election.

In either event, he doesn't win.

Biden takes no meaningful amount of support from Sanders out of the progressive wing of the party (but he does split the not-Clinton vote which needs to unify behind one candidate if there is any hope of someone other than Clinton from getting the nomination).

Biden is too late to the game to steal enough of Clinton's support to beat Clinton among the centrist/establishment Democrats. He is wanting to keep his name out there in case something horrible happens (something so bad that Clinton withdraws from the race), but nothing horrible is going to happen.

Biden is many things:

* a loyal VP,
* a Senator who has tried to balance his Delaware corporate sponsors' desires with people's needs,
* a good father,
* a Senator who had good intentions when passing harsh criminal penalties for drug possession,
* a good husband, and
* a Senator who has tried to balance his opposition to abortion with a regard for women's rights.

There is one thing Biden is not -- he's not a Nader.

Biden is not going to run.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

86. WRONG!

most of the vote will come from Hillary and a few from Bernie.

[Garrett78]

96. Yes but that doesn't mean Biden wouldn't also hurt Sanders.

Biden would mean even less media coverage for Sanders, as all the talk would be Clinton vs. Biden. Sanders is so far behind in most states that Clinton would still be a heavy favorite. Biden would be more likely to win the nomination than Sanders.

[Ashdric]

99. Is that based on polls?

Or is your source yourself?

[BuelahWitch]

88. Leave Bernie for MBNA Joe?

No fucking way!

[Prairiegale]

94. It has only been 4 months

since Bernie has started campaigning and he does not have the name recognition. I live in a very red state and occasionally they might mention him on the 3 MSM stations. We do not have any campaign ads on TV and people out here do not know who the hell he is.
Sanders has not gotten any MSM until recently, but a few articles here and there and usually most of them were marginalizing him. This last week was better. How do I know this? I am kind of retired and am a new junkie....like hour and hours reading all kinds of new sites.
As we say out here on the prairie: "Don't count your chickens before they hatch".

[drm604]

101. I'm not too sure about that.

I think that Biden may take more votes away from Clinton than from Sanders. In which case he might actually help Sanders.

[DCBob]

106. True but it probably wont be enough to make a difference.

Also, Biden will probably be a very laid back campaigner. I think he wont attack either Hillary or Bernie. He will just rely on his name and experience and association with the President. I think his campaign theme will be if you want to have 4 more years of an "Obama-style" presidency then elect me.

[orpupilofnature57]

103. A ploy by the machine and Wasserman.

[DCBob]

105. Yes, that may be the case.

Biden gives the "anybody but Hillary" crowd a person to support that is an actual Democrat.

[orpupilofnature57]

126. Actually a 2004 article I hold as the reason I joined DU 12 yrs ago, proves Bernie is an example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/09/03_hard.html

[aikoaiko]

108. We shall see. Bernie has been defying expectations so far.

There are reasonable scenarios where a Biden run helps Sanders. If you consider Biden support to be anti-Hillary then Bernie might be able to scoop them up when Joe bails

[99Forever]

118. The Establishment DINOs are running scared.

The handwriting is on the wall.

We the People have had our fill of their bullshit and we are taking our Nation back.

Get on board or get the fuck out of the way.

The Revolution is now!

Feel the Bern.

[MoveIt]

119. Isn't the vice presidency far enough for mr credit cards?

[treestar]

123. He has other problems though

Like the gaffe issue. Though by now maybe it's not really problem. Saying crazy things seems OK now with the people.

One thing is he is not hated the way Hillary is. Those who hate her, hate her with a passion - especially the right wingers.

[ColesCountyDem]

124. Is that based on polls?

Or is that just your opinion?

[Todays_Illusion]

125. I like Joe and I don't think we have had a better VP for a while but I would not vote for Joe in

the primary.

The MSM and the political establishment are pushing because he will be more of the same., but most of all because they can't wait to unleash the negative attacks, and they will make Hillary's MSM attackers seem like Sunday School teachers when they get started on Joe.

[Doctor_J]

127. why would Sanders supporters, who are sick of dc lifers and the status quo, jump to

Biden?

Life in the Clinton bubble must be interesting.

[HassleCat]

128. So you're saying?

Biden would spell doom for both Sanders and Clinton?