Would the race be over if Hillary were a white male?

[Dawgs]

@MrDane1982: @Alasscan_ I say this all the time, If Hillary Clinton was a white male with her knowledge, experience and qualifications, RACE OVER. (via Twitter)

[Juicy_Bellows]

1. I believe the white male version would be something akin to Biden. nt.

[askew]

8. Nah, people like and trust Biden.

No politician outside of Hillary Clinton has a trust problem like she does.

In all honesty, had a male told that whopper of sniper story in 2008, they would have been laughed off the national stage.

[Juicy_Bellows]

10. I know it's been posted here before.

If she gets the nomination the Republicans will flood the airwaves with that fact. It's a damning video but I am told here that it is old news and doesn't matter, she just 'misspoke'.

[TM99]

12. Indeed, if a male had told

that sniper story, it would have been considered stolen valor. He would never be running for office again.

[juajen]

19. Bullshit!

[TM99]

31. Yes, they would.

Sorry you have such love for Clinton but that was a horrid lie with no rationalizations or excuses for its telling.

[Aerows]

41. It would have absolutely been considered stolen valor.

Look at what happened to Brian Williams, and he's not an elected official.

He's still on shaky ground, and it is up in the air if he can cover anything more charged that a visit by the Pope.

A politician? That would have been the end of their career.

[artislife]

60. Look at Brian Williams

But lets face it, if s/he had been a republican s/he might have the same treatment as Billo had....which was nothing.

[TM99]

69. Brian Williams will never have

the same level of respect or professionalism ever again. He may have a limited role in the news but his lies tanked his future dramatically.

The same should have happened to Clinton for her lies about landing under sniper fire.

[juajen]

18. It's just unbelievable!

Her veracity is talked about so much, she must be the Pope. Sometimes I wonder where the Democratic Un dergroud is. I believe it has been taken over by nefarious outsiders who want to take down a woman who could become very powerful. For shame!

[peacebird]

24. For shame on Hillary for saying she was under sniper fire. She brings the distrust on herself

with her need to embellish. Saying she came under sniper fire and had to run for cover at the airport, when press was actually there recording her accepting a bouquet from a young girl...! It is just another of her self inflicted wounds. Hillary made up that whole story, the SHAME is on HER.

[Robbins]

29. No

many of us are real liberals and support someone who has been right on the issues and represent what we believe in.And that sure isn't the Clintons.

[arcane1]

33. Those "nefarious outsiders" are people who don't sell out their principles n/t

[AlbertCat]

52. who want to take down a woman

Ahhh... the gender card!

I don't think being female is the problem most people have with Clinton.


But it is a factor in the very undemocratic "She deserves it" meme.

[BlueJazz]

2. Over for him.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. couldnt possibly be about the issues that

separate Sanders from Clinton. Therefore it must be about something else.

[earthside]

4. Ask Joe Biden ...

... how that white male thing worked for him in 2008.

Sheesh.

[arcane1]

5. It wouldn't change my vote n/t

[beam me up scottie]

6. Yes because he'd be just another moderate Dem.

Her supporters keep telling us that it's time for a woman president, they can't have it both ways.

Sexism has nothing to do with why I don't support her, she's just not the best candidate.

[askew]

7. No, if Hillary was male, never would have run again in 2016.

He would have slunk back to the Senate as a loser just like John Kerry.

Hillary is being propped up by potentially being first female president and wife of ex-president. She doesn't have the character, judgment, charisma or political skills to be a top tier candidate.

[juajen]

20. What are your credentials, and why and how do you

make a difference in this country.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

48. Can I answer?

My credentials are that I'm a U.S. citizen who enjoys his First Amendment rights and will say any damned thing I feel like saying, including that your litmus test blows goats.

[Lordquinton]

49. I hope you've never accused a Sanders supporter of requiring a purity test

cause that would be hilarious if you ever had.

[artislife]

63. She owes Bubba big time. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

9. uh, no. I am a woman. I would vote for someone like Elizabeth Warren. I would not

vote for someone like Hillary Clinton. I will not vote based on gender. I will vote based on policy and voting records.

[whatchamacallit]

11. A male with Hillary's record, baggage, and personality would be just as big a fail

So no.

[jwirr]

13. Not for me. I want issues and it would depend on the issues

not the gender. If Bill Clinton had been as truthful about what he was going to do to our country when he ran I would not have voted for him either.

[juajen]

23. How strange.

I believe the general concensus is that he was an excellent President and our country prospered under hhis tutelage. Some facts, please.

[jwirr]

34. That is changing with knowledge: NAFTA, the communications

act which allowed media monopolies to happen, welfare reform that hurt many poor, tough on crime laws that hurt minorities, mass incarceration of many minorities, repeal of Glass-Steagall which combined deposit and investment banks and allowed investors to invest your deposits rather you wanted to or not, etc.

All of these actions did not immediately effect the economy. It took a while for them to unfold to their logical end. Today we can easily see that he did many things that hurt us in the long run.

Had he revealed his DLC attitudes then those of us who are FDR Democrats would have had second thoughts. Instead he played the liberal to the hilt with not intention of sticking to liberal Democratic values.

[Maedhros]

38. Excellent for whom? Big banks and the private prison industry? Yes.

The rest of us? Not so much:

NAFTA
GATT
DOMA
Welfare Reform
Repealing Glass Steagal

During Clinton's two terms, the wealth gap that began widening under Reagan and Bush got worse.

[Garrett78]

44. All true, all horrific, but not common knowledge.

You have to remember that most don't follow politics closely. That's part of the reason some honestly believe all opposition to Clinton is irrational right wing hatred. They see the 'D' or the 'R' next to a name and figure that's all they need to know. People spend far - FAR - more time watching mindless drivel on the boob tube than they do paying attention to politics.

Even people vaguely familiar with things you mentioned don't fully grasp the details. Some, for instance, think NAFTA is bad simply because it cost some Americans their job. When, in fact, there are numerous reasons why NAFTA's a disaster.

Not long ago someone on DU indicated that she thinks Democrats get all of their campaign funds from mom and pop types, while Republicans get their money from evil corporations. So I posted links to Open Secrets. They don't get that the likes of Goldman Sachs make massive "donations" to candidates on both sides of the aisle, so as to hedge their bets. There's a reason Timothy Geithner became Secretary of the Treasury.

Neoliberalism, The Powell Memo, the US's long history of supporting ruthless dictators...these are things people really ought to know about, but so many don't.

[Android3.14]

14. Yes. She only has aging white women behind her who will elect a woman regardless of consequence

If she were a white man, she'd have annoyed the senior white women demographic as much as she is annoying everyone else, and she'd be sipping mint juleps with Scott Walker right now.

[cali]

17. sexist tripe

[Android3.14]

36. If only it were so simple

Do a Google image search on "Hillary Clinton supporter" and compare it with "Bernie Sanders Supporter". The demographic in age, gender and race leans heavily towards senior white women for Clinton and a much broader spectrum for Sanders.

The only chance the GOP has of winning this season is if they can face Hillary Clinton in the GE, because her strongest supporters tend to be older white women, and that's about it. Bernie, on the other hand, enjoys enthusiastic (and growing) strength from all genders, ages and races.

I agree, and it is unfortunate it comes off as sexist, regardless of the validity of the observation, but it isn't tripe.

[jeff47]

15. Nope.

One thing that some Clinton supporters need to realize is people do not always vote for the person.

I do not support Clinton because of her policies. I don't give a damn about the human-shaped cluster of complex chemicals that comprise her.

Switch her to a man, and I still don't like those policies.

[cali]

16. no. her being female, at least in the primary, is I her favor

[Chan790]

21. Yeah, Sanders would be the solid front-runner.

A male Hillary would be basically Scott Walker (not in terms of positions, only trendlines) who started strong but is dropping out now.

[bkkyosemite]

22. Wouldn't matter I wouldn't vote for a him either...but..

Hillary's husband uh Bill ...was so mad at the fact that Obama won that he will not let anyone get in his way to make his wife president. Polls will be rigged, votes will be rigged, corporate media will only talk about her (and Trump) degrading others like Sanders....Some DNC lady will make the debates for Hillary's benefit. It's gonna be a nasty election with a lot of people pretty damn angry. But the Bush's best buddy Bill will be a happy camper.

Bush and Clinton royalty or cabal's. I'm not sure which. I'm sick of these two families that keep getting to the top because they are in with the in crowd.

[juajen]

25. For about the thousandth time, Hillary is a Rodham,

not a Clinton. Marrying a man might give you his jeans, but not his genes.

[bkkyosemite]

28. Hillary is a Rodham Clinton. Her husband wants so bad to be First Man.

You cannot separate the two. They are bent on winning and I believe they will go to all lengths to do it. He her sweetheart was fuming when Obama won.

If it was a man running instead, that man (according to the OP) would have the same values and experience that Hillary does. In bed with Monsanto and their cohorts, Wall Street and best friends with the Skull and Bones Bushes. So tired of our democracy being owned by two families.

[AlbertCat]

56. Hillary is a Rodham

Her father's name. (and genes)



I mean since sex seems to be so important here.

[delrem]

62. Two for the price of one. Remember Chelsea's genetics.

It would take a special man, married to an equally special partner, an ex-POTUS no less, who could substitute in this sex-switch.
Nah, All other things being equal I think people would be as repulsed by the one as they'd be repulsed by the other, in an equal and non-partisan manner.

[artislife]

64. So Eleanor wasn't a Roosevelt? nt

[morningfog]

26. Of course not. That is just lazy.

[Smarmie Doofus]

27. She'd be out of it by now.

But you can't go wrong here by finding an excuse to bash white males.

It's like kissing babies in the forties and denouncing communists in the 50s.

[ibegurpard]

30. yes

He would be out of it.

[hopeforchange2008]

32. From my standpoint, he'd be out because he'd have the same questionable behaviors and history /nt

[abelenkpe]

35. Yeah, it's not about the issues

It's about her gender.


Wait, no. It's about her position on the issues.

[jfern]

37. Over for said white male

[TheKentuckian]

39. Possibly, the "time for a woman"/break the glass ceiling thing wouldn't be an issue

Nor would Hilton Roscoe Clinton be able to get the wagons circling for misogyny and sexisim everytime there was push back on his bullshit policy positions.

Joe Biden has far more and deeper experience (as well as many of the same flaws) and he isn't nearly as presumptive or vigorously defended.

Hilton would get no pass on warmongering supposedly to look tough.

Hilton would be honestly viewed as a lackluster campaigner and a corporate appendage and wouldn't get the time of day. You see anyone breaking down the door to get Max Baucus a turn at bat.

There are all kinds of lame, luke warm, corporate friendly establishment white dudes with all kinds of resume and nobody gives a shit about them.

Of course it would be over, Hilton wouldn't get the time of day. He likely wouldn't have never been a Senator or SoC much less a serious candidate for the Democratic nomination.

I also wonder if old Hilton would have even been a Democrat at all.

[elana i am]

40. if clinton was a white male, even a considerably younger white male

i don't think the race would be over, but i think bernie sanders would be the undisputed front runner, possibly by a large margin.

it's the issues. there's bernie sanders, the progressive, secular, exceedingly liberal democrat that i have always hope for, and then there's everyone else. not biden, not o'malley, i don't think even elizabeth warren could possibly be an improvement over bernie sanders.

[Art_from_Ark]

70. Great post

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Hillary's not running on issues, by and large, but rather "who she is"

Many of her supporters here expressly acknowledge as much.

[artislife]

65. Yes nt

[Renew Deal]

43. I don't think so.

[Blasphemer]

45. No... there is still a fundamental rift in the party

I think part of the reason Hillary has "establishment" support was a belief that she could reach across that divide. All else being equal, a white male with her same credentials, policy positions, history of political alliances would have the same problem. That said, I firmly believe that the Clintons attract a type of virulent mudsliging and hatred (which the media has been complicit in for decades) that no other politicians have had to face as relentlessly and for such a prolonged period of time. The e-mail scandal would not have blown up as much as it did were it not for the involvement of a Clinton. So while the race would most certainly not be over, I don't think the summer would have gone as badly for someone not named Clinton.

[bigwillq]

46. No (nt)

[MisterP]

47. Clinton's not white?

[Scootaloo]

55. I wonder if anyone has told her yet n/t

[AlbertCat]

50. RACE OVER.

And Sanders would still win.

[RandySF]

51. It's already over.

Once the race moves out of New Hamphire, we will be deep in Hillary's turf.

[AlbertCat]

57. we will be deep in Hillary's turf.

Arkansas?

[RandySF]

58. The South, the West, the Midwest, California

Bernie can win Iowa, New England, Minnesota, Wisconsin, parts of the West but his wins will be few and far between. His map will be similar to Paul Tsongas/Jerry Brown's in 1992 or Bill Bradley in 2000.

[Lordquinton]

53. You are creating an impossible character, unless you mean to amend history as well

As much as people try, her past as First Lady, and being Bill Clinton's wife is a core part of Hillary that can't be ignored, without that she's a nobody, unless you mean to reverse the rolls and have her be the first male president after a unbroken streak of women leaders, and then we're right back where we started.

And you can't really play it off as Bill's husband either, what with the whole DOMA bit.

[Scootaloo]

54. If so, Biden would be president n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

59. No.

[Dems to Win]

61. Better qualified men have lost

If a candidate's resume and number of years occupying various positions was all that mattered, we wouldn't have a President Obama today.

Plus, if Hillary was a white male, she wouldn't have a spouse who is a former president ready to cash in chits and campaign on her behalf. No white men have ever been in Hillary's position, with First Lady a prominent part of her resume.

[AtomicKitten]

66. The race isn't over because not a single vote has been cast.

[longship]

67. Contrafactus?

She isn't a male. So what use is this contrafactus?

The answer is: None whatsoever.

[Live and Learn]

68. I don't know. Someone should suggest it to her campaign committee.

No reason she can't change her gender along with all her other recent transformations. It can't be any worse a strategy than her home product advice.

[delrem]

71. If Hillary were a right whale

her speaking fees would be SUCH a smaller part of her repertoire.
I'm sure Hillary would do even better if she were a right whale.
But I wouldn't want to declare the race over. Wouldn't want to seem like a fetishist.

[Curmudgeoness]

72. With her knowledge, experience and qualifications,

but add to that her baggage and the significant errors in judgment. No, I don't think that this is a male/female thing at all. I know that it isn't for me...in fact, I would love to vote for a woman to be president. I just don't to vote for just any woman just because she is a female. That is as sexist as not voting for someone just because they are a woman.