Myth: Hillary used to support the Keystone pipeline

[Bounzer]

To claim she did requires rumors, spin or hearsay.

The ball is in the court of those spreading this myth.

Provide a quote or show a video or audio.
Then call her a flip flopper.

[Maedhros]

1. Myth: DU posters have claimed Hillary supported the Keystone XL pipeline

The criticism of Hillary from the Left follows from her (until today) dogged refusal to take a stand one way or another.

However, there is this:

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122147/hillary-clinton-has-hired-former-keystone-pipeline-lobbyist

Hillary Clinton has hired a former lobbyist for the company behind the Keystone XL pipeline, further upsetting environmentalists who have long been wary of her commitment to fighting climate change.

BuzzFeed’s Ben Smith reported on Wednesday that the Clinton campaign has hired Jeffrey Berman as a campaign consultant. Berman, who began working for the campaign earlier this month, once lobbied on behalf of TransCanada, the company that hopes to build a pipeline carrying tar sands oil from Canada to the southern coast of the U.S.
. . .
"For us it’s a signal that she continues to be willing to work with oil and gas interests and take money from folks who are committed to have a pathway to fossil fuels," said Ben Schreiber, Friends of the Earth's climate and energy program director.

...which nestles right in with this:

https://theintercept.com/2015/07/23/private-prison-lobbyists-raising-cash-hillary-clinton/%C2%A0%E2%80%A6

Last week, Clinton and other candidates revealed a number of lobbyists who are serving as “bundlers” for their campaigns. Bundlers collect contributions on behalf of a campaign, and are often rewarded with special favors, such as access to the candidate.

Richard Sullivan, of the lobbying firm Capitol Counsel, is a bundler for the Clinton campaign, bringing in $44,859 in contributions in a few short months. Sullivan is also a registered lobbyist for the Geo Group, a company that operates a number of jails, including immigrant detention centers, for profit.

As we reported yesterday, fully five Clinton bundlers work for the lobbying and law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld. Corrections Corporation of America, the largest private prison company in America, paid Akin Gump $240,000 in lobbying fees last year. The firm also serves as a law firm for the prison giant, representing the company in court.

Permeating her campaign with oil and prison industry lobbyists tells us what kind of President she would be. Not one that I'd want, that's for sure.

[DanTex]

4. LOL. You do realize that it's very easy to search DU and find the huge numbers of posts

accusing her of being pro-keystone. It's even part of that misleading chart that Hillary haters have posted here ad-nauseum. For example, this OP with that claim got 57 recs. Your homework assignment is to find the rest of them.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251534983

[Uncle Joe]

33. The "Hillary haters" should be more appreciative of her sense of humor and compassion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251607105

if that could be communicated to them perhaps they would just intensely dislike her instead and one day may evolve all the way up to general indifference, baby steps on the way to true love.

[George II]

14. Using your circuitous logic, I can prove that she's always been against the Keystone pipeline:

The pipeline would hurt farmers in the states that it would have run through.

Hillary Clinton eats bread, corn, and beef.

Hillary Clinton has always supported the farmers who grow wheat, corn, and raise cattle.

Hillary Clinton has always been against hurting farmers, ergo she has always been against the pipeline.

[beam me up scottie]

19. Fact: Clinton said she was inclined to support it.

Do you really think she was opposed to it?

[George II]

20. FACT: Clinton NEVER said she was for it or against it.

[beam me up scottie]

22. Of course not, it would be stupid for Hillary to take a stand on something so controversial.

Like Martin O'Malley said:

"On issue after issue—marriage equality, drivers licenses for undocumented immigrants, children fleeing violence in Central America, the Syrian refugee crisis, and now the Keystone Pipeline, Secretary Clinton has followed–not forged–public opinion,” he said in a statement. “Leadership is about stating where you stand on critical issues, regardless of how they poll or focus group."

[George II]

24. See what I mean Bounzer? For post after post this person said she "evolved" on the issue....

...until I finally pointed out unequivocably that she never expressed an opinion either for or against the pipeline.

So now the story is "Of course not, it would be stupid for Hillary to take a stand on something so controversial"

So predictable!

[beam me up scottie]

25. You really need to check which person you're responding to, George.

If you want to gang up on me with the new guy you should respond to him, not me.





Btw, I said she evolved because she declared she wouldn't tell us if she supported it or not until she was president.

And I agree with Martin, Hillary waits to see which way the wind is blowing before she takes a stand.

[JRLeft]

40. Every time democrats hire industry people, it's quite funny how we end up with pro-industry policies

or watered down policies.

[Garrett78]

2. There was already a Keystone thread, yet you start 2 more.

Why?

[Bounzer]

5. You wish my debunking got stuck deep into a comments subthread

Myths deserve their own thread for maximum exposure.

[Garrett78]

34. My only wish...

is that there weren't so many repeat threads. Every time a poll comes out, for instance, 5 different people start threads about it. Does DU not have moderators?

And you didn't just start 1 additional Keystone thread. You started 2. You really don't think you could have addressed the points you wanted to make in a single thread?

[Chan790]

36. Does DU not have moderators?

No.

Wish we did, instead we have a failed attempt at self-moderation through a jury system.

[Garrett78]

37. Thanks. That explains a lot.

The format here sucks, and the number of repeat threads makes this place almost intolerable.

[Scootaloo]

28. Gotta get that post count up to 100

[beam me up scottie]

3. Straw man.

She's was criticized for this:

"This is President Obama's decision, and I am not going to second-guess him," she said, adding: "If it's undecided when I become president, I will answer your question."

The Clinton camp doubled down soon after, with a spokeswoman saying: "...Given her former role as Sec state and having been part of the Keystone process, she believes that weighing in now could be disruptive to the process and not responsible to do. She is just in a different situation than other candidates."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/29/the-6-big-issues-where-we-still-dont-know-where-hillary-clinton-stands/

[Bounzer]

6. Not a Strawman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=613860

Want more?

[beam me up scottie]

7. Yes, a straw man. That poster never said she supported it.

[Bounzer]

8. Another one. Not a Strawman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=614079

Want more?

[beam me up scottie]

9. Still a straw man, they didn't say she supported it.

How did you figure out how to use the search function and post ops so well on your first day?

[Bounzer]

10. A third one. Not a Strawman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=614235

Want more? Keep denying. Readers are reading.
The previous said she "flip flopped" yet you argue that because the word "supported" wasn't typed then "flip flopped" means nothing.
Want more?

[beam me up scottie]

11. Where did they say she supported the pipeline?

Point it out.

Your op specifically said:

Hillary used to support the Keystone pipeline

You've failed to produce one example.



And who are these "readers" you're talking about?

What an odd comment.

[Bounzer]

15. The word "supported" doesn't have to be typed

You are saving face . You know what flip flopping means.

[beam me up scottie]

16. Yes it does when you specify it as part of the "myth" that you're debunking.

And she did say she was inclined to support it, now she changed her mind.


That's good, I'm glad she opposes it.

[Maedhros]

29. You are clearly incapable of reasoned analysis.

/bye.

[leftofcool]

35. Save yourself some time here.

Besides, it is more fun to watch heads explode when they try to defend their candidates record on certain issues.

[George II]

21. Bounzer, I've been around the block a number of times with this person....

.....you'll never "win" because the story (and truth) will change each and every time you point out the truth.

I give you a lot of credit for sticking it out, though.

[Capn Sunshine]

12. It's pretty clear to me what is happening here

Just not to DU. As firmer member of the Cabinet, you're embargoed from commenting on ongoing White House negotiations.

The fact that today she did either means a time window expired or more likely she was cleared to discuss her own opinions on the matter by the President.

[beam me up scottie]

13. Sure, whatever you say.

[jeff47]

27. Like the ongoing negotiations regarding Syria?

You know, the ones she commented on? When she said the White House was not aggressive enough?

[George II]

17. Two different threads, two "strawman" accusations tonight.

But neither were. Oooops!

[beam me up scottie]

18. Yes, they are. Neither you nor your new friend have provided proof of these mythical claims.

Especially since you claimed I said that she was in favour of the pipeline:

If that is an "evolution" then you're saying that she was in favor of it.

[Cheese Sandwich]

23. If she opposed it she would have said so earlier. She could have opposed it from the State Dept.

She would have been a big hero if she had.

Waiting until Sept 2015 to say this is a problem. Clearly she was forced to this position by the popular movement.

[jeff47]

26. "Inclined to support it" means she opposed it then?

From 2010:

"So as I say, we've not yet signed off on it. But we are inclined to do so and we are for several reasons — going back to one of your original questions — we're either going to be dependent on dirty oil from the Gulf or dirty oil from Canada. And until we can get our act together as a country and figure out that clean, renewable energy is in both our economic interests and the interests of our planet, I mean, I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone how deeply disappointed the President and I are about our inability to get the kind of legislation through the Senate that the United States was seeking."

http://uspolitics.about.com/od/CampaignsElections/a/Hillary-Clinton-On-The-Keystone-Xl-Pipeline.htm

I apologize for accurately quoting her. Clearly using her own words is a terrible, unjustified attack.

[MannyGoldstein]

31. You suck.

Quotes count as hate, I believe. Right-wing talking points, even.

[jeff47]

39. Yes, I keep launching these unfair attacks involving accurately quoting Clinton

and accurately portraying her record instead of blindly accepting the latest sound bite from her current campaign.

This makes me a terrible, terrible hater.

[AtomicKitten]

30. She not only supported it, she facilitated it on behalf of her big donors.

Hillary Clinton's Keystone XL Crony Lobbyists Problem
link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brendan-demelle/hillary-clintons-keystone_b_997523.html

EXCLUSIVE: State Dept. Hid Contractor's Ties to Keystone XL Pipeline Company
link: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/keystone-xl-contractor-ties-transcanada-state-department

Hillary Clinton's Bought-And-Paid-For Favors for Keystone XL Deal
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/hillary-clintons-boughtan_b_7489118.html

All in the Family: Bill Clinton advising Democrats to "embrace the Keystone pipeline:"

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[Uncle Joe]

32. I like your collage, Atomic Kitten.

[CharlotteVale]

41. Thank you. I knew she was full of it.

[AtomicKitten]

42. I originally posted it in 2013 because I KNEW the obfuscation would come, and sure enough it has.

--- > http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023022353

[CharlotteVale]

44. Obfuscation and lies. But it's simply unspinnable.

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. Fact: Her opposition is a brand new thing.

[olddots]

43. really slick job

[magical thyme]

45. Hillary Clinton's 5 takes on the Keystone Pipeline

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/22/politics/hillary-clinton-keystone-pipeline-history/index.html

Take 1:
October 2010: We're "inclined" to back it

"We haven't finish all of the analysis," Clinton, then secretary of state, told the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco. "So as I say, we've not yet signed off on it. But we are inclined to do so and we are for several reasons."