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Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:11 PM Sep 2015

Joe Biden: ‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’

Vice President Joe Biden believes that life begins at conception, according to a statement he made while inviting pro-lifers to join the Democratic party in conjunction with Pope Francis’s visit to the United States.

Biden maintained that the question of when life begins is a religious matter. “I’m prepared to accept that at the moment of conception there’s human life and being, but I’m not prepared to say that to other God­-fearing [and] non­-God­-fearing people that have a different view,” he said during an interview published by America, a Jesuit-run outlet, on Monday.

“Abortion is always wrong,” Biden continued. “All the principles of my faith, {which} I make no excuse for attempting to live up to — I don’t all the time. But I’m not prepared to impose doctrine that I’m prepared to accept on the rest of {the country}.”


I have never thought of myself as a "non-God-fearing" person, but I suppose I cannot deny that label.
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Joe Biden: ‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’ (Original Post) Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 OP
ALWAYS wrong? Even in the case of rape?!? Very disappointed to hear this from Biden. Metric System Sep 2015 #1
He's always felt that way yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #51
Biden is a Catholic, so yes he believes teeny humans are created at conception magical thyme Sep 2015 #105
Reminds me of Ben CArson. How can these two men who are both SO randys1 Sep 2015 #153
He said that's his belief but he doesn't believe in imposing that on others . . . brush Sep 2015 #109
I'm aware of that. Was responding to Metric's surprise at his personal beliefs. magical thyme Sep 2015 #164
Joe, you might not always be wrong, but you're sure as hell wrong this time. nt valerief Sep 2015 #2
Why is he wrong about his personal beliefs? underthematrix Sep 2015 #7
Not playing. Ciao forever. nt valerief Sep 2015 #10
good decision underthematrix Sep 2015 #15
"Abortion is always wrong" Kelvin Mace Sep 2015 #46
Because his opinion demonstrates ignorance. Some pregnancies are destined, for example, to cause JDPriestly Sep 2015 #75
I am not surprised about the "I don't want to impose my religious views on others" statement HereSince1628 Sep 2015 #88
Well, that certainly sends a message to women. aikoaiko Sep 2015 #183
Here's the critical part: underthematrix Sep 2015 #3
THIS!!!! Raine1967 Sep 2015 #6
The OP title is the title of the article. Before saying "Biden is for a woman's right to choose," Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #16
What article? OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #27
The article linked which is the article quoted which is the title of the OP Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #29
The article from "National Review", then. OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #34
It's that mentality that I hate underthematrix Sep 2015 #18
WTF? "Bernie...had his daughter (his only biological child) by a third woman out of wedlock" beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #21
are we really going to go there? restorefreedom Sep 2015 #91
And Bernie had a son "out of wedlock" so they're not even smearing him correctly. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #103
low information poster restorefreedom Sep 2015 #115
I like it! I'm sure we'll have a chance to use it daily here. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #117
bwahahahaha, yes we will!! nt restorefreedom Sep 2015 #118
please do. I would love it. underthematrix Sep 2015 #155
:) nt restorefreedom Sep 2015 #160
So anything to say about Bernie's "daughter"? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #167
Damn, Bernie's son, Levi is a boy underthematrix Sep 2015 #168
That's the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Huckabee, take note. Metric System Sep 2015 #14
Except Huckabee never voted to overturn Roe. Biden did. jeff47 Sep 2015 #133
Yes elleng Sep 2015 #37
It's good that he added that part, but... Garrett78 Sep 2015 #84
^ YES ^ Thank you! MBS Sep 2015 #87
Except he didn't consistently support pro-choice legislation. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #99
When rights are under assault, that is not good enough. jeff47 Sep 2015 #110
Thank you. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #126
^^This.^^ Thank you, Jeff. nt historylovr Sep 2015 #127
It "only refers to him" but he can't get pregnant. arcane1 Sep 2015 #132
Biden will not impose his personal beliefs on the nation...separating religion from policy is good. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #151
He already did more than once, Fred. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #152
I guess just attacking Clinton using RW rags is not good enough for some. All Democrats are targets? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #156
What RW rag? On the issues? His own signature on the HLF amendment? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #157
Even when a child is raped and gets pregnant? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #4
it doesn't matter what Joe Biden believes underthematrix Sep 2015 #11
Yes it fucking well does when he tells women that "abortion is always wrong". beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #12
he said that it's his personal belief. It wasn't meant for you and me underthematrix Sep 2015 #19
It is meant for me, he's telling women that our choice to abort is always wrong. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #23
Personal beliefs are kept personal Kelvin Mace Sep 2015 #48
Did you miss the vice presidential debate with Paul Ryan? yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #54
No. Are you really going to lecture me on abortion? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #57
Interesting. I voted for the Obama Biden ticket yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #59
Go peddle this crap elsewhere. It's not your life on the line. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #62
I didn't start the OP yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #64
No, you're just in here lecturing women on their rights and how they should feel about them. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #65
I didn't give my opinion at all yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #68
And asking me if I knew who I voted for is what, sincere concern? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #71
The duggars are old news. We are discussing current news of the VP yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #72
Yes we are, and his lousy judgmental opinion about women and abortion. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #73
True. I never said otherwise. yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #74
i wish dems could stay on point on this restorefreedom Sep 2015 #95
They don't want us to have any options. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #101
then they sure as hell are not christians restorefreedom Sep 2015 #106
Yes they are. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #108
unfortunately the historical foundation is there restorefreedom Sep 2015 #116
I disagree with Joe but I respect his personal belief. ZM90 Sep 2015 #5
In case you haven't noticed, Joe, generally pro-lifers who CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #8
Joe Biden was in the Senate over 20 years and he never sponsored a bill to underthematrix Sep 2015 #13
I never said he did. But CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #17
what's wrong with prolifers? underthematrix Sep 2015 #20
I don't answer to you. I will not vote for a pro-lifer. Period. CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #24
Oh I see. You wear your values on your underthematrix Sep 2015 #28
Yes, how dare we uppity women get hysterical over a piddly thing like reproductive rights? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #31
Well I really stepped into a cesspool of outrage underthematrix Sep 2015 #149
NEWSFLASH: HE DID SIGN A BILL DEPRIVING US OF OUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS: beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #150
Keep your blessing to yourself, I don't believe in that stuff. CharlotteVale Sep 2015 #35
Interesting. Did you vote in 2012? yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #58
Didn't he vote for the Human Life Amendment? Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #25
The one he voted for was called the "Human Life Federalism Amendment" jeff47 Sep 2015 #187
This message was self-deleted by its author jeff47 Sep 2015 #128
Nah, he just voted for a bill to overturn Roe. jeff47 Sep 2015 #130
Who cares what Joe is prepared for, anyway? MrMickeysMom Sep 2015 #9
Sigh, it's a long time since Mario Cuomo so eloquently Gloria Sep 2015 #22
The president doesn't share you concern yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #63
Fuck the pope. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #66
Again the president doesn't share your opinion yeoman6987 Sep 2015 #69
He sure as hell doesn't agree with the pope about women's and lgbt rights. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #70
However, he made sure to say a woman should talk to their Gloria Sep 2015 #131
That is seriously fucked up too. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #134
It's called being PATRONIZING Gloria Sep 2015 #146
And for campaigning with rabid homophobes too. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #147
You should go to my blog and search Gloria Sep 2015 #189
‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’? wundermaus Sep 2015 #26
OH. EM. GEEE!! Roman Catholic espouses Roman Catholic beliefs! Alert the MEDIA! MADem Sep 2015 #30
he's allowed to have his own personal opinion if he's not legislating it, but I'm not sure how it is Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #32
Life doesn't begin at conception Major Nikon Sep 2015 #33
Exactly. Warren DeMontague Sep 2015 #39
Trying to have it both ways. Laffy Kat Sep 2015 #36
Biden on abortion: beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #38
That's not a strong pro-choice stance; I would NOT trust him to protect women's lives Liberty Belle Sep 2015 #40
Agreed. He voted to ban late term abortions. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #43
Bill Moyers has a great discussion on the effect of the Hyde Amendment on poor women Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #47
Abortion is a necessary legal medical procedure. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #49
Agreed Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #50
I do not know how many more years... Fairgo Sep 2015 #82
Thank you, you said it much better than I could. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #83
The National Right to Life Committee has a link to a document showing Biden voting to overturn Roe v Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #42
Yes, he voted for the Human Life Federalism Amendment beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #44
Unlike Hillary who has always been pro choice and will protect a woman's right to chose. Dawson Leery Sep 2015 #52
Hillary supported a ban on late term abortions too. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #53
Still, Clinton is rated 100% by NARAL and Biden is rated 36% by NARAL (I'm a Sanders supporter so Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #60
I agree she is better than Biden, a lot better. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #61
To sum this up: OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #41
So Biden lied about voting for an amendment to overturn Roe? jeff47 Sep 2015 #129
In this interview? OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #135
Your fundamental claim is that National Review is lying about Biden's record and beliefs jeff47 Sep 2015 #136
Thank you again, jeff. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #138
It's one of the subjects that really, really pisses me off jeff47 Sep 2015 #140
And I appreciate you and every other one of our other allies who fight alongside us. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #141
Are you suggesting that I'm doing that? OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #165
My "fundamental claim"... OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #142
They were not the only source at the time this OP was posted. jeff47 Sep 2015 #143
NRO was the only source I saw at the time. OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #161
Better sources than his own words? jeff47 Sep 2015 #186
Well, that is your run over before it began Kelvin Mace Sep 2015 #45
One non-dog-fearing person here! nt thereismore Sep 2015 #55
This message was self-deleted by its author thereismore Sep 2015 #56
He is a man and does not understand the. Issues that can arise in pregnancy. JDPriestly Sep 2015 #67
This is a deciding issue for me gwheezie Sep 2015 #76
You got this from the NATIONAL REVIEW? RandySF Sep 2015 #77
Lots of RW rags are being elevated to high status at DU...where else to gather the tripe? Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #154
Are you denying he said that? Or signed the amendment to overturn Roe v Wade? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #169
Aren't there some GOP candidates you could attack instead? There are a few around if one pays Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #171
No, I'm fine with calling out fake allies who think Biden's votes are acceptable. Thanks. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #172
No one doubts your sincerity! It is just the aim that seems to be all in one direction. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #173
Oh I'm aiming at the right people. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #174
Aiming only at Democratic Party candidates...like I said, no one doubts the sincerity. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #175
I'm talking about you and others who lecture women on what we should be outraged about. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #176
Now the twist to unrelated personal accusations? It is a familiar pattern we all notice. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #177
And women notice who is dismissing their concerns on DU. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #179
My work here is done. Fred Sanders Sep 2015 #181
Yes, it is. Thanks for helping out! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #182
as long as he's 100% pro choice ibegurpard Sep 2015 #78
But Biden is far from 100% pro-choice so his opinion does seem to affect his voting on reproductive Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #97
He isn't. His record has several anti-choice votes. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2015 #111
Well in that case I have a very big problem with him ibegurpard Sep 2015 #178
About the National Review RandySF Sep 2015 #79
Because Biden doesn't have a record beyond this one story. jeff47 Sep 2015 #137
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Lychee2 Sep 2015 #80
FTR: That was not my alert. OilemFirchen Sep 2015 #119
guess he is not running for president afterall Backwoodsrider Sep 2015 #81
I'm not especially concerned about what he thinks if "right" or "wrong." David__77 Sep 2015 #85
Except he doesn't. jeff47 Sep 2015 #112
I respect him for standing up for SSM, but shaming women like this is unacceptable. LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #86
He's saying he would never impose his personal beliefs on other people. I have no patience for Squinch Sep 2015 #89
Except he has only a 36% rating from NARAL, he has repeatedly voted for the Hyde Amendment, he voted Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #90
+1 beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #100
I never knew this. I took him at his word about not imposing his beliefs, but it seems that his Metric System Sep 2015 #190
And he has a history of imposing his personal beliefs on other people. jeff47 Sep 2015 #113
You're wrong, Joe (nt) bigwillq Sep 2015 #92
we just spent two days restorefreedom Sep 2015 #93
I have a real problem with LWolf Sep 2015 #94
I am of the opinion all religion is fear based don't do x or be punished by deity YabaDabaNoDinoNo Sep 2015 #98
That's not all religion, LWolf Sep 2015 #188
I just love it when wombless men tell women with wombs in_cog_ni_to Sep 2015 #96
Mr Biden fredamae Sep 2015 #102
This is why he sometimes gets in trouble because he speaks before he thinks. DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2015 #104
He didn't speak before he thought TeddyR Sep 2015 #158
"Biden hasn't tried to impose his belief on others" beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #163
Clinton is in the "safe, legal, and rare" camp, and Bernie believes women Zorra Sep 2015 #107
Preaching to the Papal chior that is just in love with the Pope right now. NCTraveler Sep 2015 #114
You think Sanders supporters are the only ones praising the pope? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #120
"You think Sanders supporters are the only ones praising the pope?" NCTraveler Sep 2015 #121
Your words: "Sure sign that one camp is about economic justice, equality for the rest be damned." beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #122
Thank you for showing the quote that proves your claim had no merit. I appreciate it. nt. NCTraveler Sep 2015 #123
Thank you for providing a quote showing how some will say anything to smear Bernie's supporters. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #124
I don't quite understand why they go in those terms. Xyzse Sep 2015 #125
I would love for abortion to happen jeff47 Sep 2015 #139
And I believe you took what I said wrong as well. Xyzse Sep 2015 #144
When you step from "glad it can happen" to "love for it not to happen" jeff47 Sep 2015 #145
Understood. Xyzse Sep 2015 #148
i don't care if he thinks that Orangepeel Sep 2015 #159
It is a problem because he has voted to overturn Roe v Wade. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #162
How and when did he vote to overturn a SCOTUS decision? Orangepeel Sep 2015 #184
He voted for the Human Life Federalism Amendment: beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #185
This is very troubling. Vinca Sep 2015 #166
It is none of his business. Hiraeth Sep 2015 #170
I hate abortion Puzzledtraveller Sep 2015 #180
Fine with me as long as he defends the legal right of choice Recursion Sep 2015 #191
I agree his personal views are irrelevant if they don't affect his votes, but his Hyde Amendment Attorney in Texas Sep 2015 #192
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
51. He's always felt that way
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:44 PM
Sep 2015

Actually nothing wrong with him having an opinion. He said the same thing during the vice presidential debate.

His issue is forcing others to believe what he does and he refuses to do that.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
105. Biden is a Catholic, so yes he believes teeny humans are created at conception
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:13 AM
Sep 2015

and that all abortion is wrong. No matter how the conception took place.

NO MATTER IF CARRYING THE FETUS TO TERM WILL KILL THE MOTHER.

NO MATTER IF CARRYING THE FETUS TO TERM WILL KILL THE MOTHER AND THE BABY.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
153. Reminds me of Ben CArson. How can these two men who are both SO
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 05:51 PM
Sep 2015

intelligent in some areas, be so dumb in others.

I am a recovering Catholic, and I know better than to hold this ridiculous view.

brush

(52,779 posts)
109. He said that's his belief but he doesn't believe in imposing that on others . . .
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:46 AM
Sep 2015

which is reasonable and unlike that kook county clerk in Texas.

He will lose much support by saying this though.

I believe Biden was signaling he won't run.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
164. I'm aware of that. Was responding to Metric's surprise at his personal beliefs.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:19 PM
Sep 2015

I oppose Biden for other issues....financial, military, national security, police.

I believe him when he says he won't impose his personal beliefs on others.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
7. Why is he wrong about his personal beliefs?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:27 PM
Sep 2015

The keyword there is personal. I'm a staunch supporter of abortion. But I'm very confidant in my choice. I don't need joe Biden to validate me. All he is required to do is keep his religion out of public spaces in his role as a government official.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
75. Because his opinion demonstrates ignorance. Some pregnancies are destined, for example, to cause
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:22 AM
Sep 2015

death to the mother and/or one or more fetuses. A categorical statement like that indicates a willingness to reach an absolure opinion on an issue without first learning all the facts.

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
88. I am not surprised about the "I don't want to impose my religious views on others" statement
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:22 AM
Sep 2015

That's pretty standard.

I am disappointed to see the "Life begins at" argument. It exploits ignorance of biogenesis to endorse a myth regarding the over-arching specialness of conception that is hypocritical and primarily applied, to deny women the right to reproductive self-defense.








aikoaiko

(34,068 posts)
183. Well, that certainly sends a message to women.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:05 PM
Sep 2015

I'm glad he draws the line between his personal beliefs on abortion and his desire to impose those beliefs, but still....

This is an example of why he will never be the Democratic nominee.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
3. Here's the critical part:
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:21 PM
Sep 2015
But I’m not prepared to impose doctrine that I’m prepared to accept on the rest of {the country}.

That right there is the way you handle your personal faith in a public space

Now the PSYOPS part of the title of this article is to pull a statement from his personal beliefs a statement that ONLY refers to him and not to the other people.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
16. The OP title is the title of the article. Before saying "Biden is for a woman's right to choose,"
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:36 PM
Sep 2015

you should read up on that position.

Biden has repeatedly supported the Hyde Amendment.

OilemFirchen

(7,135 posts)
27. What article?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:54 PM
Sep 2015

The only cite I see is one to National Review buried in some text.

Did you write this, or did you never learn copyright law?

OilemFirchen

(7,135 posts)
34. The article from "National Review", then.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:06 PM
Sep 2015

You should learn how to do attribution, counselor.

BTW, the quotes in the article are edited and contextually twisted.

Here's the PDF from which these concoctions were obtained:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B64aMhgtMmKyRDFsb1k5R0NEb0U&usp=sharing

End of page 4 to beginning of page 5.

Case dismissed.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
18. It's that mentality that I hate
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:39 PM
Sep 2015

on both sides. It's like middle school. If you don't wear the same outfit as me, it means my outfit isn't as good as yours.

Joe Biden is great on women's issues. He married all the women he had children with, which is a sign of respect for the mother and the child.

Bernie was married twice but had his daughter (his only biological child) by a third woman out of wedlock.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
21. WTF? "Bernie...had his daughter (his only biological child) by a third woman out of wedlock"
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:45 PM
Sep 2015

Jesus Christ, you don't even know what the hell you're talking about.

No wonder you're defending Joe.

Guess who this is?:


restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
91. are we really going to go there?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:57 AM
Sep 2015

"Joe Biden is great on women's issues. He married all the women he had children with, which is a sign of respect for the mother and the child.

Bernie was married twice but had his daughter (his only biological child) by a third woman out of wedlock."

wow. just wow.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
103. And Bernie had a son "out of wedlock" so they're not even smearing him correctly.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:10 AM
Sep 2015

That tells you everything you need to know about that poster.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
168. Damn, Bernie's son, Levi is a boy
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:32 PM
Sep 2015

and he's with my favorite most awesome person in the world. President Obama before he was president.

thank you for the correction

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
84. It's good that he added that part, but...
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:31 AM
Sep 2015

he's still adding fuel to the anti-abortion rights fire. Furthermore, the basis for his opposition is unscientific and has no place in public policy.

I don't understand why faith, believing in that for which there is zero evidence, is considered a virtue. Religious belief is personal, so let's keep it that way.

MBS

(9,688 posts)
87. ^ YES ^ Thank you!
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:01 AM
Sep 2015

And that's been his consistent legislative position and impeccably honorable constitutional philosophy -- and that of almost all Catholic congressional Democrats -- since forever.

He has supported pro-choice legislation consistently, not out of hypocrisy or pandering, but out of unshakeable conviction in the vital importance of the separation of church and state. Isn't this what we want, folks?

Wow, not a single debate or primary yet, and I'm already exhausted by the daily hysteria and distortions. .

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
99. Except he didn't consistently support pro-choice legislation.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:02 AM
Sep 2015

Maybe you should get all the facts before you accuse women of hysteria.

You couldn't possibly have exhausted yourself reading the thread otherwise you'd know Biden voted against pro-choice legislation.


jeff47

(26,549 posts)
110. When rights are under assault, that is not good enough.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:57 AM
Sep 2015

"I agree with them, but I'll let you plebes get away with it" is not good enough. Because we need someone to actually fight back against the gradual chipping away of Roe.

Someone who fundamentally disagrees with Roe is not going to be an effective fighter for Roe. They're going to say things like "Well, we can ban this one procedure". Or "Waiting periods are OK". They will internally excuse it by claiming women have other options. Forgetting that "women" includes more than women living in a Northeastern city with plenty of money and their own car and a job they can repeatedly take time off from during the day.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
152. He already did more than once, Fred.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 05:51 PM
Sep 2015

Keep up.

http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

Allow women to choose, but no federal funding

I remember vividly the first time, in 1973, I had to go to the floor to vote on abortion. A fellow Senator asked how I would vote. “My position is that I am personally opposed to abortion, but I don’t think I have a right to impose my few on the rest of society. I’ve thought a lot about it, and my position probably doesn’t please anyone. I think the government should stay out completely. I will not vote to overturn the Court’s decision. I will not vote to curtail a woman’s right to choose abortion. But I will also not vote to use federal funds to fund abortion.“

***

No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view

Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?

A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you’re going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Apr 29, 2007

***

Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe

Q: You supported the ban on partial-birth abortions or late-term abortions.

A: I did and I do.


***

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion. [A NO vote supports abortion rights].

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
156. I guess just attacking Clinton using RW rags is not good enough for some. All Democrats are targets?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 05:56 PM
Sep 2015

Is Obama the next meal on the plate?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
157. What RW rag? On the issues? His own signature on the HLF amendment?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 05:57 PM
Sep 2015

Do you deny he signed the Human Life Federalism Amendment?

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
11. it doesn't matter what Joe Biden believes
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:29 PM
Sep 2015

personally, the Supreme court upheld Roe v Wade which says a woman has a right to make personal decisions about her body. That's the law.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
12. Yes it fucking well does when he tells women that "abortion is always wrong".
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:31 PM
Sep 2015

I get enough of that holier than thou sanctimonious "Abortion is always wrong" horseshit from forced birthers, I don't want to hear it from the vice president.

A Democrat no less.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
19. he said that it's his personal belief. It wasn't meant for you and me
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:42 PM
Sep 2015

it's his personal belief for himself. I think you've got him confused with GOP KKKochroaches.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
23. It is meant for me, he's telling women that our choice to abort is always wrong.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:48 PM
Sep 2015

That includes children who were raped, women whose lives are at risk and women whose fetuses have severe defects.

We don't need men to tell us we should feel guilty because it's WRONG to choose to abort a fetus.


THAT IS FUCKED UP.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
48. Personal beliefs are kept personal
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:35 PM
Sep 2015

When stated publicly, they are his public belief, and they carry judgement of other people given his position in society. His "personal beliefs" on bankruptcy influenced bankruptcy law. His "personal beliefs" on the death penalty led to more death penalty crimes, "three strikes", mandatory sentencing and many other grave injustices.

He doesn't get a pass for claiming a "personal belief" exemption.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
54. Did you miss the vice presidential debate with Paul Ryan?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:49 PM
Sep 2015

He said the same thing 4 years ago. Did you vote for the ticket?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
57. No. Are you really going to lecture me on abortion?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:50 PM
Sep 2015

I voted for Obama because he is 100% pro-choice.

Shouldn't you be defending the Duggars in GD instead of telling me who and what I voted for?

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
59. Interesting. I voted for the Obama Biden ticket
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:55 PM
Sep 2015

Who knew they were separated. Learn something new everyday.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
64. I didn't start the OP
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:02 AM
Sep 2015

Perhaps you can request it be taken down if it concerns you. I see many different opinions offered here.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
68. I didn't give my opinion at all
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:04 AM
Sep 2015

I offered up proof that Biden has held these beliefs for a long time and that the country voted for the ticket anyway. In no way did I give anything more then facts.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
71. And asking me if I knew who I voted for is what, sincere concern?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:09 AM
Sep 2015

Spare me.

Someone somewhere on DU is criticizing the Duggars, maybe you should go counsel them.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
95. i wish dems could stay on point on this
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:16 AM
Sep 2015

all dems should be hammering home the point that if we had better and universal health care, more widely available contraceptives, an economy where women did not have to work three jobs to barely be able to feed their one kid and stay with deadbeat losers becsuse they have no financial freedom, where male dominance and rape is always condemned as the evil it is, that abortions would drop even further because the factors leading to those pregnancies would have been dealt with.

imo we have the financial, medical, and technological capability to make abortion necessary to save a woman's life but otherwise obsolete (because unintended pregnancies could almost disappear).

we just need the collective will. and that is what the gop doesnt get...they want to stop (most) abortions? give women proper health care and contraception, and the ability to be financially stable, and lock up the losers who rape and exploit them. lets start there, misogynistic assholes.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
101. They don't want us to have any options.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:08 AM
Sep 2015

They want to slut shame women and doom us to a lifetime of poverty when we get pregnant.

That's the Republican/Christian way.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
106. then they sure as hell are not christians
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:18 AM
Sep 2015

forced poverty is completely antithetical to the beatitudes, the words of Jesus himself.

your christians are so unlike your Christ.---gandhi

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
108. Yes they are.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:23 AM
Sep 2015

Judeo-Christian religion is full of misogyny and it's been used to keep women oppressed for thousands of years.

Liberal Christians aren't misogynists but they aren't the only ones who can claim that title.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
116. unfortunately the historical foundation is there
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:16 AM
Sep 2015

but i believe that within every religion as well as atheism, there is an option to live out the best version of that religion or the worst.

most republicans have clearly chosen the worst

ZM90

(706 posts)
5. I disagree with Joe but I respect his personal belief.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:24 PM
Sep 2015

I am also very happy that he chooses not to try to impose his personal belief on any of the population. He is separating church from state and that is good.

CharlotteVale

(2,717 posts)
8. In case you haven't noticed, Joe, generally pro-lifers who
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:27 PM
Sep 2015

think abortion is always wrong ARE intent on forcing their views down others' throats.

There isn't a tent big enough for me and for them.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
13. Joe Biden was in the Senate over 20 years and he never sponsored a bill to
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:33 PM
Sep 2015

overturn Roe v Wade. we are goverened by the rule of law not anyone's personal belief system. That's why kin Davis is such a weak crazy shit. She's like so many other weakass people who can't strong for their beliefs unless someone is agreeing with them or vaidating them. Geez.

CharlotteVale

(2,717 posts)
17. I never said he did. But
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:39 PM
Sep 2015

he did invite pro-lifers to join the Democratic Party. How much further right can it go? I will never, under any circumstances, vote for a pro-lifer no matter what letter is after their name.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
20. what's wrong with prolifers?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:45 PM
Sep 2015

The MAJORITY of BLACK people are PROLIFERS. The MAJORITY of LATINOS are PROLIFERS.

Im AA and spent my youth in church but i have always been pro-choice.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
28. Oh I see. You wear your values on your
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:55 PM
Sep 2015

sleeve and unless it's reflected on the sleeves of others, you just can't go there. Bless your heart.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
31. Yes, how dare we uppity women get hysterical over a piddly thing like reproductive rights?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:00 PM
Sep 2015

You're a real piece of work.

underthematrix

(5,811 posts)
149. Well I really stepped into a cesspool of outrage
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 05:43 PM
Sep 2015

As a 65 y/o AA woman I woud say I know a little something abot reproductive rights. i was part of the Civil Rights movement and sexual revolution. I didn't get involved in the 2nd wave feminist movement because many black women at that time were busy mocking it more in an ironic rather than mean way.

Biden would never sign a bill depriving women of their reproductive rights because his PERSONAL VIEWS differ from the majority of Americans. This is just silliness. He's a mature individual who took an oath to uphold the Constitution which includes separation of Church and State. It does not allow him to impose his PERSONAL BELIEFS on our secular gov't.

You may not like his personal beliefs but he has not demonstrated he would impose those beliefs on Amercians through policy. Never.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
150. NEWSFLASH: HE DID SIGN A BILL DEPRIVING US OF OUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS:
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 05:47 PM
Sep 2015
http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

You may not like his personal beliefs but he has not demonstrated he would impose those beliefs on Amercians through policy. Never.


http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

Allow women to choose, but no federal funding

I remember vividly the first time, in 1973, I had to go to the floor to vote on abortion. A fellow Senator asked how I would vote. “My position is that I am personally opposed to abortion, but I don’t think I have a right to impose my few on the rest of society. I’ve thought a lot about it, and my position probably doesn’t please anyone. I think the government should stay out completely. I will not vote to overturn the Court’s decision. I will not vote to curtail a woman’s right to choose abortion. But I will also not vote to use federal funds to fund abortion.“

***

No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view

Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?

A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you’re going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Apr 29, 2007

***

Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe

Q: You supported the ban on partial-birth abortions or late-term abortions.

A: I did and I do.


***

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion. [A NO vote supports abortion rights].

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm




You obviously know NOTHING about Biden and very little about who is actually fighting for our rights.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
187. The one he voted for was called the "Human Life Federalism Amendment"
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:40 PM
Sep 2015

It's the only constitutional amendment to overturn Roe that actually got a floor vote. He voted for it.

Response to underthematrix (Reply #13)

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
9. Who cares what Joe is prepared for, anyway?
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:28 PM
Sep 2015

What he thinks has ZERO to do with what any woman is prepared to do based on an informed, sensitive consultation with her doctor.

I fear Joe's imagined wisdom more than anyone's ignorance around this issue.

Joe.. STFU

Got it?

Good.

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
22. Sigh, it's a long time since Mario Cuomo so eloquently
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:47 PM
Sep 2015

talked about his beliefs vs. policy in that incredible talk he did...

No one can ever match that speech...

Certainly not Biden...

And I am so SICK of the pandering to this Pope...or any Pope.

If the Vatican is "state" and a Pope represents this entity, then its offshoots should be TAXED!! They get involved in public policy all the time...TAX all churches!!

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
63. The president doesn't share you concern
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:00 AM
Sep 2015

He has accepted the pope in the United States and has been welcoming and respectful. Thank goodness he is president.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
66. Fuck the pope.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:03 AM
Sep 2015

He's another forced birther who thinks we should be incubators for the Church.

He also thinks lgbt people are disordered and shouldn't be allowed to marry or adopt children.


Gloria

(17,663 posts)
131. However, he made sure to say a woman should talk to their
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:33 AM
Sep 2015

religious person when making a decision...as if everyone wants to do that or could do that, with the attitudes a lot of them have...

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
134. That is seriously fucked up too.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:38 AM
Sep 2015

Not as bad as the Pope but telling women who they should and shouldn't consult before they exercise their right to choose is bullshit.

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
146. It's called being PATRONIZING
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:40 PM
Sep 2015

and Obama has done that, too.

He was in bed with evangelicals and I wrote about it....never have trusted him on this issue...

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
147. And for campaigning with rabid homophobes too.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:44 PM
Sep 2015

Religious bigots usually all agree on one thing: women's and lgbt rights.

Gloria

(17,663 posts)
189. You should go to my blog and search
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 11:02 AM
Sep 2015

for Obama on preachers, Matthew, justice dept. all the deals he was making, including the big religious media people....UGH

Never gung ho on this guy from the start.....

Just google InsightAnalytical and you'll see a treasure trove of crap on Obama behind the scenes as
he was trying to get elected...Hence, the PUMAs...

MADem

(135,425 posts)
30. OH. EM. GEEE!! Roman Catholic espouses Roman Catholic beliefs! Alert the MEDIA!
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:58 PM
Sep 2015

Harry Reid has the same POV. He doesn't foist it on others, though.

He can parse, and he does.

Not sure why people are excited or annoyed by this--it's not news.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
32. he's allowed to have his own personal opinion if he's not legislating it, but I'm not sure how it is
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:04 PM
Sep 2015

a helpful contribution to the conversation while womens' reproductive rights are under attack by people who would shame and blame them.

But Biden has a lot to answer for, if he's running. If his statements around his historical support of things like the drug war or the bankruptcy bill are anything like this, I predict practically zero enthusiasm for him in the primaries.

Major Nikon

(36,811 posts)
33. Life doesn't begin at conception
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:05 PM
Sep 2015

Both the egg and sperm are in fact, human life. Ascribing some kind of completely arbitrary metaphysical properties to human tissue at the point of conception is nothing more than hocus pocus nonsense.

Laffy Kat

(16,297 posts)
36. Trying to have it both ways.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:10 PM
Sep 2015

He could have phrased it differently. Made him look like a wuss. Disappointing.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
38. Biden on abortion:
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:12 PM
Sep 2015
Allow women to choose, but no federal funding

I remember vividly the first time, in 1973, I had to go to the floor to vote on abortion. A fellow Senator asked how I would vote. “My position is that I am personally opposed to abortion, but I don’t think I have a right to impose my few on the rest of society. I’ve thought a lot about it, and my position probably doesn’t please anyone. I think the government should stay out completely. I will not vote to overturn the Court’s decision. I will not vote to curtail a woman’s right to choose abortion. But I will also not vote to use federal funds to fund abortion.“

***

No public funding for abortion; it imposes a view

Q: Are you still opposed to public funding for abortion?

A: I still am opposed to public funding for abortion. It goes to the question of whether or not you’re going to impose a view to support something that is not a guaranteed right but an affirmative action to promote.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series , Apr 29, 2007

***

Supports partial-birth abortion ban, but not undoing Roe

Q: You supported the ban on partial-birth abortions or late-term abortions.

A: I did and I do.


***

Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions.

This legislation, if enacted, would ban the abortion procedure in which the physician partially delivers the fetus before completing the abortion. [A NO vote supports abortion rights].

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm



He's mixed choice, and that's a deal breaker for me.

Liberty Belle

(9,520 posts)
40. That's not a strong pro-choice stance; I would NOT trust him to protect women's lives
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:18 PM
Sep 2015

In choosing future Supreme Court justices or vetoing say, a 20-week abortion ban, waiting periods, etc.

Hillary or Bernie are much better choices if you care about making sure women's lives, health, safety, and choices are protected.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
43. Agreed. He voted to ban late term abortions.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:21 PM
Sep 2015

His mixed choice record tells me he would probably allow his beliefs to influence his decisions in the future.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
47. Bill Moyers has a great discussion on the effect of the Hyde Amendment on poor women
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:33 PM
Sep 2015

Here is an excerpt and a link to the full article:

1. The law’s impact is limited almost entirely to poor women. The late Henry Hyde (R-IL), the conservative congressman who first proposed the amendment, acknowledged this reality during a Medicaid funding debate in 1977, when he told his colleagues:

“I certainly would like to prevent, if I could legally, anybody having an abortion: a rich woman, a middle-class woman or a poor woman. Unfortunately, the only vehicle available is the… Medicaid bill.”

2. About 42 percent of women who have abortions live below the poverty line. The unintended pregnancy rate among poor women is five times the rates for higher-income women, as is the abortion rate. One reported reason for the discrepancy is poor women’s limited access to contraception.

3. By restricting Medicaid funding for abortion, one in four low-income women who would like to obtain abortions are instead forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term. Since the Hyde Amendment was enacted more than 35 years ago, over one million women have been unable to afford abortions.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
49. Abortion is a necessary legal medical procedure.
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:39 PM
Sep 2015

It should be federally funded like any other necessary, legal medical procedure.

Depriving poor women of their reproductive choices is illiberal, anti-choice and imo despicable.


Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
82. I do not know how many more years...
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:25 AM
Sep 2015

...we have to debate this, but I am glad you are in here defending health equity and reproductive rights. "Life begins..." It doesn't matter. Its a moot point. Worse, that framing is devious politics masquerading as morality when it is mouthed by a politician speaking from their role in any venue. It's a woman's body, its her decision, and it should be available to all if available to any...without judgement or even freaking comment. Nothing. else. matters.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
60. Still, Clinton is rated 100% by NARAL and Biden is rated 36% by NARAL (I'm a Sanders supporter so
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:55 PM
Sep 2015

I'm not necessarily the person to defend Clinton's record, but she's certainly better than Biden on reproductive rights.

OilemFirchen

(7,135 posts)
41. To sum this up:
Tue Sep 22, 2015, 11:19 PM
Sep 2015

Our OP "cited" a National Review article that deceptively edited the comments Biden made in this interview:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B64aMhgtMmKyRDFsb1k5R0NEb0U&usp=sharing

The first link on that page is the PDF. Watch the interview at the second link - the discussion of abortion starts at 13:26.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
129. So Biden lied about voting for an amendment to overturn Roe?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 11:30 AM
Sep 2015
http://www.nrlc.org/archive/ObamaAbortionAgenda/BidenProofVoteForHatchAmendToOverturnRoe.pdf

Or are you going to claim national right to life is lying?

How about his repeated votes for the Hyde amendment? And repeated statements supporting the Hyde amendment? Can't have any federal money going to those icky sluts for their abortions.

Yeah, it's all about National Review. There are zero other sources on the planet. And history started when that article was published.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
136. Your fundamental claim is that National Review is lying about Biden's record and beliefs
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:36 PM
Sep 2015

because they are such an untrustworthy source.

He actually has a record. That one interview is not the entirety of his history.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
138. Thank you again, jeff.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:44 PM
Sep 2015

The attempt to dismiss criticism from women who are losing the battle for reproductive rights is pathetic.

There is a war on women, DUers either need to get on board with those of us who are fighting for our lives or get out of the way.

OilemFirchen

(7,135 posts)
142. My "fundamental claim"...
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:30 PM
Sep 2015

is that National Review, notorious for their right-wing prevarications, edited Biden's remarks to suit an agenda - as evidenced specifically by the video.

That they were the only source at the time this OP was posted is only indicative of the seminal poster's rush to attack.

Now, with the passage of some time, a few other outlets have picked up this bombshell. This might have been a better source, starting with the title:

Biden: Abortion ‘always wrong’ in Catholic doctrine

The few quotes are more complete, while still lacking the nuance of his comments.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
143. They were not the only source at the time this OP was posted.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:33 PM
Sep 2015

They were the only source you bothered to look at.

The few quotes are more complete, while still lacking the nuance of his comments.

Feel free to explain the nuance in his vote to amend the Constitution to overrule Roe.

OilemFirchen

(7,135 posts)
161. NRO was the only source I saw at the time.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:16 PM
Sep 2015

If there were other (better) sources, then the seminal poster's use of NRO is even more despicable.

Feel free to explain the nuance in his vote to amend the Constitution to overrule Roe.

There was no discussion of that in the interview. Start a thread about it and, if it's interesting, perhaps I'll participate.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
186. Better sources than his own words?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:38 PM
Sep 2015

Really?

How about these anti-abortion folks bitching about him not voting their way a few times?

But he also said he thought Roe v. Wade had gone too far — and in 1982, as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, he voted for a constitutional amendment to overturn Roe v. Wade. An objective examination of Biden’s record in the Senate (1973 through 2008) reveals him to be a long way from Barack Obama. On many key pro-life issues, including limits on late abortion and federal funding of abortion, Biden voted for legislation that is consistent with the votes cast by Paul Ryan — and in stark contrast with the extreme pro-abortion positions taken by Obama both as a legislator and as president.

For example, throughout his Senate career Biden voted for the Hyde Amendment, prohibiting most federal funding of abortion. Indeed, Biden explicitly advocated that the Hyde Amendment should contain an exception only to save the life of the mother, and he voted repeatedly against adding exceptions for rape and incest to the amendment. Biden also consistently voted for the federal ban on partial-birth abortions. He expressed concern that the so-called “Freedom of Choice Act” would go too far in overturning state abortion limitations.


Congress.gov is apparently down right now, but here's the roll call on the amendment to overturn Roe.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/97th-congress/senate-joint-resolution/110

Response to Attorney in Texas (Original post)

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
67. He is a man and does not understand the. Issues that can arise in pregnancy.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:04 AM
Sep 2015

No way could I vote for someone so lacking in understanding and compassion for women and the biological and psychological realities that are sometimes faced un pregnancy. Pregnancy is far less dangerous today than it was in the past but it can be very dangerous for both mother and fetus or fetuses and our society does little to help women who are pregnant but unable to carry or care for a baby.

gwheezie

(3,580 posts)
76. This is a deciding issue for me
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:30 AM
Sep 2015

Biden can believe what he likes. I know people who oppose abortion because they are catholic, they should not have an abortion if they feel that way.
His position wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't for the unrelenting attacks on legal abortion and the successful tactics to erode the availability of abortion we really can't give an inch on this issue.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
169. Are you denying he said that? Or signed the amendment to overturn Roe v Wade?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:33 PM
Sep 2015

Do explain why we shouldn't be upset about this, Fred.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
171. Aren't there some GOP candidates you could attack instead? There are a few around if one pays
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:35 PM
Sep 2015

attention to what is important to the Democratic Party, concentrating on the enemy and not the allies.

If.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
175. Aiming only at Democratic Party candidates...like I said, no one doubts the sincerity.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:39 PM
Sep 2015

Kudos for honesty, beam me up!

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
176. I'm talking about you and others who lecture women on what we should be outraged about.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:41 PM
Sep 2015

Because hey, it's not like YOUR life is on the line with the legislation Biden signed.

Amirite, Fred?

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
97. But Biden is far from 100% pro-choice so his opinion does seem to affect his voting on reproductive
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:25 AM
Sep 2015

rights.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
178. Well in that case I have a very big problem with him
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:44 PM
Sep 2015

Not that I was ever enthusiastic about him in the first place

RandySF

(55,978 posts)
79. About the National Review
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:48 AM
Sep 2015

National Review (N.R.) is a semimonthly magazine founded by author William F. Buckley, Jr., in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for conservative news, commentary, and opinion."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Review

 

Lychee2

(405 posts)
80. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:00 AM
Sep 2015

On Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:46 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Joe Biden: ‘Abortion Is Always Wrong’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251614713

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

The OP cites a deceptively edited article from the National Review, a right wing publication of the Heritage Foundation.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:53 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Honesty is the best policy, please leave it alone
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If there's a list of forbidden links at DU, admin will post them. Until then, I'm not going to play Joe McCarthy for your benefit.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Since the National Review links back to the transcript of the original interview and Biden seems to have actually said this Isay let it stay. Any one really interested can follow the links to the original. Not happy to give NR the clicks but it is what it is.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: National Review? I hope this OP gets removed for posting from such a source.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If someone cites an RW publication, DUers should refute it, not hide it. That's the collision of truth with error. Are we so afraid of these ogres at the NR that we hide their reactionary views from each other's eyes? Are we afraid we can't refute them? That's disgraceful.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Backwoodsrider

(764 posts)
81. guess he is not running for president afterall
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:20 AM
Sep 2015

There is little chance a democrat can live that one down. Every democrat I know is prochoice so Joe must of decided not to run or maybe he has the ability to just be him self while still possibly running for president. I think we will find out within the week

David__77

(23,017 posts)
85. I'm not especially concerned about what he thinks if "right" or "wrong."
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:35 AM
Sep 2015

I'm more interested in what he advocates to do, and why. Here, my understanding is that he supports access to abortion. I'm fine with that.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
112. Except he doesn't.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:06 AM
Sep 2015

He's got several anti-choice votes on his record. Most notably, he's repeatedly voted and stated that he does not want federal funds to pay for abortion.

"Access" includes being able to pay for it.

LostOne4Ever

(9,219 posts)
86. I respect him for standing up for SSM, but shaming women like this is unacceptable.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 03:06 AM
Sep 2015

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I would expect this type of patronizing and utterly chauvinistic view from a republican, not a liberal politician.

He needs to sit down, educate himself on the issue, and seriously reconsider his position.[/font]

Squinch

(50,250 posts)
89. He's saying he would never impose his personal beliefs on other people. I have no patience for
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:30 AM
Sep 2015

pro-life people, but I have no argument with Joe here. He's agreeing to keep his beliefs out of my uterus, so there is nothing more I need from him.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
90. Except he has only a 36% rating from NARAL, he has repeatedly voted for the Hyde Amendment, he voted
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:40 AM
Sep 2015

for the Human Life Federalism Amendment to repeal Roe v. Wade.

It seems an awful lot like he is imposing his belief on other people.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
100. +1
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:04 AM
Sep 2015

Apparently it's okay when Joe does it because he's got a d after his name.

Can you imagine the outrage if Bernie had cast those votes?

Metric System

(6,048 posts)
190. I never knew this. I took him at his word about not imposing his beliefs, but it seems that his
Thu Sep 24, 2015, 11:37 AM
Sep 2015

record contradicts his assertion.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
113. And he has a history of imposing his personal beliefs on other people.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:06 AM
Sep 2015

He's repeatedly voted and spoken for banning federal funding for abortion.

That is imposing his personal beliefs.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
93. we just spent two days
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:04 AM
Sep 2015

piling on ben carson because he tried to link a religious view with a public office and said they could not be kept apart, which most here (rightly so imo) said was bullshit

joe has said this is his personal religious conviction. if he keeps it there and does not bring it into public policy, isn't this the perfect refutation of ben carson's bigotry?

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
94. I have a real problem with
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:08 AM
Sep 2015

the idea that anyone, believers or unbelievers, are supposed to FEAR "God."

If I were a Christian following Christ, the message would not be to fear, or to judge, but to love.

I know that "fearing god" is an old testament theme. It's been used to rope the faithful into line, kind of like some people do in general elections when their corporate nominee does not inspire the masses...invoking that fear of the "other" to keep people in line.

It's also used like a parent threatening kids with punishment for bad behavior.

I don't respond well to those kinds of threats; I never have, which is something that people indoctrinated into that kind of "fear authority, and look to that authority to protect you from the other evil" kind of mindset never "get."

So there is an instant disconnect with Biden's words about "God-fearing" people. I'll damn well deny that label.

Of course, as a woman, I also don't need him to be making any judgments about my body and its reproductive capabilities. Thankfully, he also said that he's "not prepared to impose doctrine" on the rest of the country. Hopefully, that doesn't mean that someday he will be prepared.





 

YabaDabaNoDinoNo

(460 posts)
98. I am of the opinion all religion is fear based don't do x or be punished by deity
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:42 AM
Sep 2015

Fear is what keeps people in line and fear closes ones mind. Fear is why they also do good. Do y and please deity win a prize.









in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
96. I just love it when wombless men tell women with wombs
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 07:22 AM
Sep 2015

What's right or wrong to do with that womb. I wouldn't even begin to think I had any right to tell another human being what they can or can't do to/with their own body. It's offensive when men voice an opinion on abortion - UNLESS IT'S THEIR WIFE/GIRLFRIEND /SIGNIFICANT OTHER, they may have input, but it's still the woman's CHOICE.

Otherwise, it's none if your effing business what other women do with their bodies and to say flat out "abortion is ALWAYS WRONG" is just fucked up. Rape? Incest? Stillborn baby? Mother's life is at risk? Can't afford it? Doesn't want to have a baby? ALWAYS WRONG? My ass!

Do women go around giving opinions about what men should or shouldn't do with their reproductive organs? NO! We deserve the same respect. Thank you very much.

fredamae

(4,458 posts)
102. Mr Biden
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:08 AM
Sep 2015

that issue is Not yours to decide. It's mine. If you believe Abortion is Always Wrong, then.....might I suggest that You personal abstain from ever having that procedure performed on you. That is exercising CHOICE
Biden joins the attack on Women's Rights?

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,669 posts)
104. This is why he sometimes gets in trouble because he speaks before he thinks.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:13 AM
Sep 2015

There is a difference between the proverbial guy at the bar who opines on everything and POTUS.

I believe in a true "culture of life." I too oppose abortion, euthanasaia, the death penalty, and unjust war. However I realize we live in a pluralistic society where the "individual is sovereign over his own mind, body, and soul " and decisions on what to do with it should be beyond the reach of the state.

 

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)
158. He didn't speak before he thought
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 05:58 PM
Sep 2015

This statement reflects his beliefs, at least based on his record. And while I don't agree -- abortion is often wrong, but not always -- Biden hasn't tried to impose his belief on others, unlike Huckabee and his ilk.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
163. "Biden hasn't tried to impose his belief on others"
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:19 PM
Sep 2015

Yes he has, he voted to overturn Roe v Wade, ban federal funding for abortions and late term abortions.

He IS imposing his belief on me.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
107. Clinton is in the "safe, legal, and rare" camp, and Bernie believes women
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 09:19 AM
Sep 2015

have the absolute, unquestionable right to have control over their own body.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
114. Preaching to the Papal chior that is just in love with the Pope right now.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:11 AM
Sep 2015

Sure sign that one camp is about economic justice, equality for the rest be damned. I hate the praise being heaped on the Pope as he spreads hate around the world that will lead to beatings, death, and the hatred of great people. Hundreds of ops on how bad Hillary is. Dozens on the greatness of the Pope. There was even a recent post here about how Hillary evolved and it was done in a way to trash her. Same poster is praising the Pope. Really fucked up.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
120. You think Sanders supporters are the only ones praising the pope?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:22 AM
Sep 2015
Sure sign that one camp is about economic justice, equality for the rest be damned.


Way to cherry pick one group of people to broad brush.

One camp is about equality for all, the other supports a candidate who just came around to that way of thinking in 2013.





 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
121. "You think Sanders supporters are the only ones praising the pope?"
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:31 AM
Sep 2015

As usual, you start your discussion with something I never said. Really a poor tactic you have used with me time and time again. If you have to make a dishonest claim as to what others are saying in order to make your point, you might want to rethink your point. It is clear you answered without reading. That is standard for your replies to me. Have a wonderful day.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
122. Your words: "Sure sign that one camp is about economic justice, equality for the rest be damned."
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:38 AM
Sep 2015

You're the one making a dishonest claim, NCTraveler and it's not the first time you've used this "poor tactic" to attack Bernie's supporters.





beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
124. Thank you for providing a quote showing how some will say anything to smear Bernie's supporters.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:42 AM
Sep 2015

Because we're all ONLY concerned with economic justice, amirite?


Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
125. I don't quite understand why they go in those terms.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 10:42 AM
Sep 2015

To me, abortion is always a wedge issue that no one wins on except Republicans by just riling people up since they have nothing else to recommend them for.

Stating that, my stance has always been that I would love for abortion to not happen(everybody would want to avoid it to begin with), but I understand that it does.
Where, abortion is a symptom of the problem rather than an actual problem, and anti-choicers don't seem to get that.

To lessen the instances of such a thing touches many many issues that Republicans just hurt.
-Medical Care
-Cost of Living
-Cost of the Baby
-Pre-natal and Post-natal care
-Broken families
-General Instability in people's lives
-Raising a child alone, cost and time, so consider day care

In ALL of those factors, Republicans hurt families, and in fact I will blame there for any sort of rise in abortions because they create insecurity and their actions cause a rise in hardship on all the factors that would directly increase the probability of an abortion.

Joe Biden is not always the sharpest speaker, but in essence, I get where he is coming from.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
139. I would love for abortion to happen
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 12:49 PM
Sep 2015

I'm really tired of arguments that more-or-less say "abortion is icky" and then try to change to another topic.

I want every woman who wants to get an abortion to get one. Heck, I'd like them to hand out a lovely gift basket after each one.

I care about abortion and I care about proper medical care that includes contraception. There is no point in trying to couch this in "avoid abortion" language. That is just continuing the framing that abortion is a terrible thing. And that framing is the largest success of the anti-abortion zealots.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
144. And I believe you took what I said wrong as well.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 01:45 PM
Sep 2015

I know it happens, and I am glad the possibility of it happening and that it is safe and legal is great. I am happy about that. What I was saying is that I would love for it not to have to happen. I know I did not quite phrase it that way, but it is definitely hard to phrase.

What it means is, that I would love to limit the factors that come to having that decision. Meaning, if they actually care about pre and post natal care a bit more, then people have more options. If they are secure and stable, and have the facilities to take care of children, perhaps more would be influenced to keep the child rather than having an abortion.

I can see your point in the framing of the language, however, please note that many could not get to that point, so you have to find points which they might actually understand. Because not all can get to that easily, so you have to mention the factors that put a person to that choice. Then explain how Republicans are actually the ones causing those factors to become worse.

That is the only way I was able to get someone to understand why Republicans are actually worse in regards to the issue of abortion rather than Democrats. I do try to work on the common ground, and I think about the factors that influence the choice. I am very happy there is a choice, and would never wish to limit that. I work on trying to make them understand why the people they are supporting is actually worse for their issue than those who are pro-choice.

I hope I clarified things a bit better.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
145. When you step from "glad it can happen" to "love for it not to happen"
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:10 PM
Sep 2015

then that is precisely the framing I am complaining about.

That step inherently defines abortion as "bad". Which invites attacks on abortion - after all, most "bad" things get regulated in our country.

Access to contraception is good regardless of abortion. And abortion for women who want it is good regardless of access to contraception. You don't need to connect the two.

however, please note that many could not get to that point, so you have to find points which they might actually understand. Because not all can get to that easily, so you have to mention the factors that put a person to that choice.

No, we really don't.

People resort to that framing because almost no one has been pushing "access to abortion is good" by itself. Instead, people keep trying to use contraception access almost as an excuse for supporting abortion.

We don't have to keep doing that. We do not have to accept the existing framing. Yes, it will not instantly work on all voters. But someone has to start pushing the line in the other direction, or it will continue to slide towards anti-abortion.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
148. Understood.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 02:51 PM
Sep 2015

Like I mentioned, we work on different people.
I can appreciate your position, but I have found that I have swayed some to look at things a bit differently, which is important to me. Particularly as I talk to those who are religious.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
162. It is a problem because he has voted to overturn Roe v Wade.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:18 PM
Sep 2015

And he supported other anti-choice legislation too.

Orangepeel

(13,928 posts)
184. How and when did he vote to overturn a SCOTUS decision?
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 08:29 PM
Sep 2015

I'm not defending Biden. I'm genuinely curious because I don't know how that would work.

The 75% NARAL rating in 2007 is disconcerting. I'd like to know what that's about.

http://votesmart.org/candidate/evaluations/53279/joe-biden-jr/75#.VgNOl8T3aK0

Abortion and Reproductive
2008 Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Positions 100%
2007-2008 National Organization for Women - Positions 100%
2007 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 75%
2007 Population Connection - Positions on Population Stabilization 100%
2006 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 100%
2006 Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Positions 100%
2006 Population Connection - Positions 100%
2005-2006 National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association - Positions 93%
2005-2006 National Organization for Women - Positions 91%
2005-2006 Population Action International - Positions on Reproductive Health 100%
2005 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 100%
2005 National Organization for Women - Positions 100%
2005 Population Connection - Positions 100%
2005 The Population Institute - Positions 100%
2004 NARAL Pro-Choice America - Positions 100%
2003-2004 Population Action International - Positions 100%

Vinca

(50,056 posts)
166. This is very troubling.
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:21 PM
Sep 2015

There are medical problems that render a pregnant woman a living and breathing coffin for a child that will come into the world unable to survive on its own. I can't imagine carrying a child for months on end knowing the end result will be a funeral and not a birthday party. At least he is reasonable enough not to insist everyone believe as he does . . . unlike a Republican.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
180. I hate abortion
Wed Sep 23, 2015, 06:45 PM
Sep 2015

Me, my personal feelings, "personal" as in, my business only, not to be imposed on anyone else or delegated to the state to control, limit or impede anyone,s access to the "personal" care of someones health and well being.

Attorney in Texas

(3,373 posts)
192. I agree his personal views are irrelevant if they don't affect his votes, but his Hyde Amendment
Sat Sep 26, 2015, 08:50 AM
Sep 2015

votes and his other positions which have resulted in his low NARAL rating whow that his personal views DO affect his votes.

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