Some of the things said about Bernie supporters make me sick

[DemocraticWing]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Sissyk (a host of the 2016 Postmortem forum).

I was reading a certain other website that just trashed Bernie supporters up and down. I think everybody here knows what I'm talking about, but I see it on social media and even on DU too. We're accused of being Republicans, right wingers, racists, sexists, and homophobes. For supporting a candidate who is, get this, an actual socialist who supports full and uncompromised equality for women, racial minorities, and LGBTQ people.

I really have to scratch my head in confusion. Somebody actually said Bernie doesn't care about LGBTQ people. Yet he's had our back on marriage for a long time, at least back to when voted against DOMA. He's had our back when it comes to our people who put our lives on the line in the military, all the way back to when Don't Ask Don't Tell was put in place. He's had our back on nondiscrimination protections, all the way back to the 1980s when was mayor of Burlington.

When the Equality Act was introduced, I made it a point to find out where Bernie stood. I wouldn't vote for him if he didn't support it. I contacted his office right away, and was told he was going to cosponsor it. Of course he's going to stand up for LGBTQ rights! It's just what he does! He isn't "put off" by LGBTQ activists. He doesn't think gay people are "acting out." He's never given a speech in the Senate about how marriage was only for men and women, and the pesky gays shouldn't violate that "sacred bond."

I've supported a lot of Democrats over the years. I've had to support every homophobic piece of shit that landed on the ballot in Kentucky for my whole life, including a man who was elected Lt. Governor in 2007 after having been the sponsor for our state's gay marriage ban. I had to sit idly by while John Kerry said marriage was not for gay people, while Barack Obama said "God was in the mix," while Obama shared the stage and promoted hate-filled bigots during his campaign and inauguration. I remember two years of the most ardent Obama (and now Hillary) supporters saying even on DU that LGBTQ activists should stop "whining" because wanting to be treated like human beings was "begging for a pony."

I don't forget this shit, and I don't forget what portion of the Democratic Party was holding it all up for years and years. The moderate/Third Way/Centrists who would go out of their way to thrown LGBTQ people under the bus whenever it became convenient were almost as damaging as the Republicans. Sometimes still I wonder if Democrats aren't just taking LGBTQ people for a ride, pointing out how much better Democrats are than Republicans while never truly caring. But I overcome that to do everything I can for this party, and will keep doing it.

But I don't want to hold my nose and worry about getting stabbed in the back. I trust Bernie Sanders.

[leftofcool]

1. Here is a tip. Don't read any other opinions about Bernie except those you like.

[JDPriestly]

8. Information is our friend.

Those of us who support Bernie have informed ourselves about Hillary's and Bernie's histories and stances. And we have chosen Bernie.

Hillary is the best known candidate and therefore an easy choice for people who do not inform themselves about the facts about the candidates.

Bernie has the best stances in my opinion -- best stances on each and every possible issue.

My decision to back Bernie is based on solid research. I'm so happy to have found a candidate I can agree with on every issue. It's a first for me although I have gladly supported all previous Democratic candidates.

[OilemFirchen]

45. Nothing elitist nor condescending about this post.

Hillary is the best known candidate and therefore an easy choice for people who do not inform themselves about the facts about the candidates.

Nosiree.

[Fearless]

9. It's spelled H-I-L-L-A-R-Y not B-E-R-N-I-E

At least that's what it seems like.

Would you like to discuss any issue that either of these politicians supports?

[sabrina 1]

16. Well since most of what is available on Bernie is so very positive, it's hard to find much NOT to

like

Btw, what issues do you not agree with Bernie on?

And re the OP, the attacks on Bernie's supporters make me laugh. It's clearly from some Corporate funded think tank since they reallly can't go after him on the issues, without risking comparisons between exemplary record and Hillary's. So some genius thought up the notion that attacking Bernies daily growing army of supporters might reflect on him LOL!

[Hortensis]

30. Only some Bernie supporters are misbehaving so badly that

they pose a threat to his chances, Sabrina. Most are not, including very large numbers who are relatively quiet. They are not criticized.

If you want to help get him elected, you might want to not encourage bad behavior. It's easy to do and very easy to spot. Only discuss on posts about ISSUES. Pass on by if you see the kind of vulgar, offensive, highly aggressive statements that people would never indulge face-to-face. Unless they wanted to get fired or removed from invitation lists, of course.

When people google the web to find criticisms, lies, and negative comment against Bernie and bring them back here for a crowd-fest of anger: Definitely pass on by. Copying lies on this site and linking Bernie's name to them over and over and over again is incredibly stupid. What uncommitted people who read this stuff go away with is,
"Gee, other people don't like him. Maybe I shouldn't either."
"I didn't realize he's a Jew. Huh. People still don't like that, I guess."
"I wonder if he really is a bigot, warmonger, ___, ___, ___. (Fill in the slur his enemies WANT you to spread around.)

And right now, Bernie's candidacy is still an asset to corporate interests because he's chiseling away at HRC's support. You are right in that that will change big time if he wins the primary, but until then they're sitting back watching and smiling, maybe even helping out Bernie a little here and there.

Eye on the prize: 2016!

[sabrina 1]

43. This isn't the 'nineties or 2008. The more negative Hillary's camp goes, the more likely she is to

lose. There is no Corporate Funded Super Pac for Bernie sliming Hillary with someone with as little credibility as Paula Jones' old friend David Brock.

That only helped Bernie, helped him raise nearly $2 million dollars. Why? Because people are SICK to death of these nasy unethical people involved in our electoral system.

And since Bernie is RUNNING on that issue, WHEN Hillary's camp goes negative rather than discuss issues that helps those of us who support him to USE it, which I will definitely be doing re Brock's nasty attack eg, as an example of what Bernie is talking about.

You might not be aware but attacks on Bernie and his supporters started almost as soon as he announced.


And no, I am not worried about it, look how little effect they've had.


Hillary's numbers has plummeting, everywhere, so maybe you should give that advice to Hillary's supporters.


Her campaign's negative non-issues oriented campaign has and will only hurt HER.

[HooptieWagon]

56. I'm not seeing it.

I haven't seen any nastiness or name-calling from a Sanders supporter. I have not seen any smearing of Clinton...pointing out her record is not a smear.

Can't say the same about the Clinton supporters...one only has to read the cess-pool they've crawled into to see their true nature, when they're not afraid of DU juries.

[LondonReign2]

62. Only discussing posts about issues would be fantastic

However, best of luck getting any Clinton supporter to discuss issues. The vast majority are like the first responder to the OP -- they will never engage on policy comparisons.

the quickest way to end the discussion with a Clinton supporter is to ask them where they stand on policy X, Y, or Z.

[Aerows]

23. Here's a tip

Don't say awful things about fellow DUers and expect that you will get absolutely no pushback.

It's like crap out of Conservative Cave, except this is by DUers.

Clearly you all are ashamed of yourselves enough that you locked down the forum and the Grumble wing that had the tawdriest of insults.

I prefer that my "friends" tell me that they think I'm an asshole to my face, because my enemies at least do me that favor. When my "friends" do it, that means they just think I'm a sucker.

I'd prefer someone that honestly disagrees with me rather than a person that calls me a sucker and makes fun of what I stand for behind my back.

[stevenleser]

38. No, one cannot do that, and that's the point. Sanders supporters control the juries here so those

folks who don't support Bernie or object to how some of his supporters act here cannot say so because it will result in a hidden post.

So no honest disagreement can be voiced. The Sanders alert stalking brigade here has seen to that.

The off-DU Hillary forum is the result. What I find interesting is that some Sanders supporters are so obsessed with controlling what other people say, they aren't satisfied with alert-stalking people off DU, they want to control the conversation at the Hillary site.

That is pretty strong evidence to me that the issue is not with Hillary supporters.

And by the way, I give it a 50-50 chance that this post is hidden for all the reasons I have been saying. We cannot have an honest conversation about this. Too many Sanders supporters here are determined to use the jury system to silence any dissent against them and against Bernie.

[Prism]

40. At what point are people calling Skinner a liar?

Much has been made about juries and alert stalking. The topic has been addressed in ATA several times, where both Skinner and Earl dug into alerts and juries. They say there isn't a problem. And given that at least Skinner is upfront about being a Hillary partisan, I see no reason why they wouldn't highlight this targeting and problem if it did in fact exist.

I don't mind off-DU sites. I went to one myself after I was royally pissed about the gay purge. I certainly talked smack about the DUers who were harrassing the LGBT community. So, I'm not going to be all, "Oh, this is the worst thing ever!" (Although, I never posted or tolerated racist or anti-semitic things off site, so there's that).

That aside, do you just not believe the admins of this site when they say they don't see validation of the claims being made about alerts and juries?

[stevenleser]

41. He's not a liar, he is measuring it incorrectly, and I have said this several times.

He and EarlG point to daily alert stats to try to explain away the alert stalking.

You have to take the last four months of data and analyze who is being alerted and by whom. That is going to tell the story.

[Prism]

52. I have a hard time believing they haven't looked into it

Imagine you were the owner of a website, and that website started being totally overrun by people who don't share your opinions. In fact, many claims were being made that people who share your partisan sympathies were being stalked and run off.

You wouldn't take a gander at the accused offenders to see if that is what was happening?

But, not being partisan either way, I just haven't seen it. The alert marytrs generally deserved their time-outs. A lot of those posters ran around throwing haymakers. I saw one poster come in from a time out and get sent right back out again in the space of a week or two, because they just could not stop leveling crazy attacks on people. That person is now "silenced" and "targeted" and being "stalked". Hell, another example I saw just yesterday was a poster who isn't even at 1,000 posts who, from day one, started shitting on as many people as possible. Also being cited as a martyr.

DU is easy. Don't be an asshole. If you're an asshole, you're going to get hides. In the past year, I've gotten one hide - one I went into the post knowing I was going to get. I have strong opinions. I have some unpopular opinions. Yet I'm still here. So are you, for that matter. So are a lot of people. Why?

Because we exercise discretion and self-control. The people who don't get nailed. That's how it is on DU, and that isn't even a secret. It's what Skinner's been telling people. It seems to me people confuse "truth-telling" with being an abrasive jerk.

Abrasive jerks don't last around here for long without getting hides. After three years of the current system, I just don't understand what's so very confusing about that.

[stevenleser]

53. I can only go by what they have presented every time they have addressed it. The stats for

individual single days.

[Prism]

55. Have you asked them for a more encompassing analysis?

They might oblige.

[stevenleser]

59. I did once, I believe. I think they know exactly what is going on but they are stuck.

Here is the kind of stuff you get when a question is asked: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=8579

[mhatrw]

29. By any chance do you keep a list of prominent LBGT people who support Hillary?

Do LBGT folks count as one of the minority groups you wish to confront Clinton?

[JackInGreen]

10. I've always called it

"Living bullet proof". The haters can go on at length, our integrity maintains us.

[sabrina 1]

18. No, it's an attack and exactly what the OP is talking about. But keep it up, we know that the 'let's

attack Bernie supporters' routine is a tactic, most likely paid for with Dark Money. Because really, they are getting desperate and know they can't attack him on the issues.

How do we know this is a 'talking point'? Not hard to figure out. Same as the 'he has a problem with minorities' nonsense, another talking point.

So, I actually laugh when I see these two 'memes' repeated over and over even as Bernie continues to become known to minorities and increasingly is attracting more and more AAs to his campaign, the 'operatives' don't see it, but then operatives have a goal which often causes a certain blindness to reality.

I hope they keep doing it. As we can see, the more they do, the more support Bernie gets. Eg, I use these attacks as examples of what Corporate money does to our electoral system when signing people, mostly non voters, up for Bernie. They 'get it' right away and it makes them angry and ready to get back in the system to vote for Bernie.

[sabrina 1]

21. Like I said, they have two talking points, nothing else to try to undermine one of the best

candidates on the issues Dems have had in the living memory of many of us.

And the more negative THEY become, the more they are turning people off. People are sick to death of this kind of garbage, even people I know who were supporting Hillary are angry about the negative campaign she is running, while not talking much at alll about issues.

The reason I don't care what they say is because I know it is all working in Bernie's favor. It sure isn't stopping his remarkable momentum so let them waste all the Dark Corporate Money, we will simply use it for Bernie's benefit as happened with the despicable David Brock. He made nearly 2 million for Bernie.

[Aerows]

24. And don't go to an offsite

and proceed to slander the character of people on DU, call them every name in the book, then slink back in here like you are our friends.

A real friend will tell you to your face that they disagree with you.

You folks could have gotten a lot further if you had just stabbed the people you dislike and disagree with on DU in the front.

[beam me up scottie]

37. I don't think Agschmid belongs to that website.

He's not a Hillary supporter and it's not his style.

[madaboutharry]

3. Very well said.

[virtualobserver]

4. perfectly and reasonably stated

[beam me up scottie]

5. Bernie's always had our back and now we've got his.

Well said, DemocraticWing.


And I'm sorry you had to read those things.


Don't let it get you down.

[rusty quoin]

6. We put up with Rahm Emanuel. I trust Bernie too. He is the true Democrat.

At least he is my idea of a real Democrat. It's been 30 years plus since we had anyone like him. It's been by whole adult life. Go Bernie.

[Segami]

7. BAM!...Well said!

Don't EVER feel you need to hold your nose ever again because you would be doing a great disservice to yourself.

Trust what you see before you.....those who live the way they preach.....actions over words.....TRUST BERNIE SANDERS!

[JDPriestly]

12. We have no way of knowing whether the people using monikers used on DU

are really the same people who use those monikers on DU.

I refuse to jump to conclusions on that. I realize that it is likely, but it is not certain.

[840high]

17. It's 99% likely.

[sabrina 1]

19. Well, I haven't seen and am not really interested in wasting time looking at what people are talking

about. But I go by what I've seen 'monikers' say and do right here. They can always clear things up and state it is not them, but frankly I don't care much either way.

I'm busy getting people excited about Bernie and they ARE once they learn about him.

So much that is positive, I tend to avoid the sad, negative, hateful people in this world they have a tendency to drain precious energy and I got over trying to reason with that mindset a while ago

[JDPriestly]

22. Great post. Thanks.

People have lots of opportunities to change their minds. And I expect many will.

[Aerows]

25. They have already admitted it

In several threads.

They aren't hiding it.

They are actively defending their involvement. Hell some of them have their pictures up on the site.

They RESPOND to people on DU because they can't post here.

I understand that you might not be caught up on all this, but it's already a known fact.

[sabrina 1]

42. What a waste of energy that COULD be going to promoting their candidate.

[merrily]

26. People have posting/writing styles as well as screen names.

[Aerows]

27. And pictures.

And replied to members on DU because they can't post here.

[beam me up scottie]

36. They admitted it and related personal exchanges that happened on DU.

And some of them are over here defending their behaviour.

The site administrator even bragged about it in a thread here the other night.

[Fumesucker]

13. The increasing cognitive dissonance in some posters has been a wonder to behold

I'm mildly surprised some of them don't just "pop" disappear into the aether the cognitive dissonance is so incredibly powerful.

Now they have done the next best thing.

[BeanMusical]

14. Very well said!

[Live and Learn]

15. +1 nt

[pnwmom]

28. You could have written pretty much the same post and substituted the name "Hillary"

in the subject line.

Everybody seems to hate each other now, even though the candidates themselves are not far apart on the issues and are trying not to tear each other apart.

It's very sad.

[Le Taz Hot]

31. Do you own a mirror?

Because you have contributed mightily to the rancor. I'd check my own behavior before I started checking someone else's.

[pnwmom]

47. Ditto, Le Taz Hot. Where have I disparaged Bernie the way you've disparaged Hillary? n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

48. I'm not the one complaining that people aren't playing nice.

[pnwmom]

49. That wasn't what I said. n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

50. . . .

"Everybody seems to hate each other now, even though the candidates themselves are not far apart on the issues and are trying not to tear each other apart."

DU's Bernie supporters aren't the ones who started a hate site. Again, look in the mirror.

[beam me up scottie]

35. Except we didn't start a website to hate on Hillary and other DUers.

And post anti-Semitic garbage about the Jewish senator from Vermont that wouldn't get by here.

Do you participate there, pnwmom?

How do you feel about what was posted by other DUers?

Should we not call them out for it?

Just curious how far you're willing to go to excuse that kind of behaviour.

[TBF]

57. "Not far apart on the issues"

It is true that Bernie and Hillary have kept it civil - but I can't agree with your statement that they are "not far apart on the issues". These are just a few of the glaring differences between the third way candidate (Hillary) and the progressive/socialist candidate (Bernie):

[DianeK]

58. Thank you for posting this

It very clearly shows the real differences between the two candidates. When I hear some say that Hillary is similar to Bernie on issues it is frustrating because I can clearly see how she is trying to co-opt Bernie's consistent message of 30 years as her own.

[Hortensis]

60. Please don't defame "everybody," PNW. Just a few on each side are hateful.

[pnwmom]

64. Did you say the same thing to the OP?

[Betty Karlson]

32. Couldn't say it better myself. n/t

[99Forever]

33. The more they attack us...

... with their sleazy Rovian tactics, the more adamant and determined we become.

I WILL NOT hold my nose. Ever again. That much is an absolute certainty.

[bigwillq]

34. Politics is a dirty game

Names will be called. Get used to it. #thickskin

[NCTraveler]

39. I was just called an anti-semite by a Sanders supporter here.

They refuse to back up their claim in any way. That is every bit as bad as what you are saying yet no one here says a thing. That is what is occurring on the board you are currently posting on. Yet crickets from you.

[beam me up scottie]

46. You were? Post the link please.

I do believe you were asked if you were okay with the Anti-Semitism at that website.

Is this the post?:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=621352

Tia!

[DianeK]

51. wow

you got busted

[polly7]

54. Where exactly were you called that? nt.

[SwampG8r]

61. Those crickets you hear

Seem to be as imaginary as your claim

[beam me up scottie]

65. Hello? Did you post the link yet? All I see are these damned crickets.

[hifiguy]

44. Well said, indeed.

[dorkzilla]

63. Well said!

I am straight but growing up in NYC and working mainly in the arts all my life, I have a LOT of gay friends. Actually I probably have more gay than straight friends.

Lest anyone need a reminder of how long its been that Bernie has been standing up for the LGBTQ community, here is 20 year old video of Bernie speaking up:

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4542435/house-floor-may-11-1995-rep-cunningham-homos-military-sensanders-insulted-thousands-men-women-put

[staggerleem]

66. Dems taking LGBTQs for a ride?

You mean like the Rethuglicans are doing with the "Right To Life"-ers?

[Sissyk]

67. Locking.

No disruptive meta in GDP. Please read the SOP for this Forum.

Thank You!