Salon: What Hillary Clinton wants you to forget: Her disastrous record as a war hawk

[magical thyme]

And btw, people, wars are fought with bombs and GUNS.
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/10/what_hillary_clinton_wants_you_to_forget_her_disastrous_record_as_a_war_hawk/

Hillary Clinton announced her support for Obama’s Iran deal in a speech on Wednesday. It wasn’t exactly an act of huge political bravery. The deal is happening. It’s secured enough support from Democrats in the Senate to doom any attempts to block it. If Clinton had done anything other than endorsed the deal, she would have created a major headache for herself.

Even so, her speech about the deal highlighted what ought to be–but probably won’t be–a deeply examined part of her ideology: her hyper-hawkishness.

In the speech, Clinton spent most of her time “talking tough,” as they say. She flatly declared that the deal did not signal “some larger diplomatic opening” and insisted that she would “not hesitate to take military action if Iran tries to obtain a nuclear weapon.” (If the president of Iran casually threatened to bomb the United States, there would be hell to pay, but no matter.) She also pledged to to arm the already-well-stocked Israel even further, and to expand the American military presence around Iran. Never mind that multiple American intelligence estimates have concluded that Iran suspended its quest for a nuclear weapon long ago; we can always use more ships in the Middle East.

It’s worth remembering that while Clinton infamously voted to invade Iraq, of course, she was also notably trigger-happy during her time at the State Department. These days, you’re more likely to hear about Benghazi when the topic of Clinton and Libya comes up, but far more important was the key role she played in pushing for intervention there in the first place. (A now laughably laudatory Washington Post article from 2011 called it “Hillary’s war.”) Referring to Muammar Gaddafi, Clinton infamously crowed, “We came, we saw, he died,” which, no matter what you think of him, is quite a thing to say about the brutal killing of a political leader. Years later, it’s clear that the decision to go into Libya was an epic mistake. The country has essentially ceased to exist.

[AtomicKitten]

1. That's by far my #1 reason for opposing her candidacy.

[boobooday]

7. That goes for me as well

She lost me voting for the idiotic war in Iraq when she damn well knew better.

[reformist2]

13. Some Dems can't seem to admit their hero has become a war hawk.

As I've said before, it's a tragedy what has happened to her. She's completely corrupt now.

[Sunlei]

62. not "become" she hasn't changed much, improved & is today fairly similar to Obama policies.

I don't think she is corrupt at all, just more 'old school' government and not a Person of Peace.

American government doesn't have many, if any at all who are people of peace.

Senator Sanders has always been a Man of Peace, that's always been his government 'talk'. But he has never had the ability to get the others he has worked with for decades to agree with him and turn those words of peace into an action or two.

In my dreams Clinton and Sanders team-up, and that team would win if they could work together.

[Unknown Beatle]

75. No, she has become corrupted by money and is a known liar.

She's been bought by Wall St.

One of the biggest whoppers she's told is when she said she and Bill were not only "dead broke, but in debt" when they left the White House. Wow! Bullshit!

Remember when she invested $1000 and made $100,000 through highly speculative commodities trading?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Mine as well...NEVER forget it!

[Scuba]

56. So many good reasons, but that's number one.

[peacebird]

2. She lacks the coolhead needed to be CIC, she is too willing to use military force.

And the classless, callous & clueless comment "we came, we saw, he died" was just the nail in the coffin as far as my ever being able to vote for her.

[Az_lefty]

15. Same here, completely done with her

[TwilightGardener]

22. That breezy comment was shocking. That wasn't how a diplomat speaks.

[MisterP]

73. she's already saber-rattling for Iran

[reddread]

3. she wont be disarming the police, armed invasion forces, mercenaries, foreign thugs etc

quite the opposite.

[beam me up scottie]

4. Kosovo in 3...2...1...

[Fawke Em]

5. I just a Hillary supporter on Twitter try to argue she's not a war hawk.

[still_one]

6. Salon, you may like to rewrite history, but she was expressing support for the deal months ago, far

earlier, than the Sept. date which the article alludes to

As far as bringing up her IWR vote, that is fair game, but she wrote a book explaining that she made a mistake, and has subsequently said so. The author may not believe it, but that is what happened, and conveniently leaves her changed position out of the article because he wants to express only one point of view.

Yeah she gave a tough talk speech, and so did Obama, and Kerry, if the deal was violated. Also, Iran made some tough talking remarks also. So what.

As far as the Libya situation, the author may not realize it, but the policy of bombing Libya was the President's decision, it wasn't Hillarys

[uhnope]

37. "her IWR vote, that is fair game"

Yeah, I'm not interested in her explanation of her "mistake" in a book. I really can't believe that some people give her a pass on supporting the obvious disaster-to-be that was Iraq War. She's a dubious character without that, but with that she's totally intolerable as a presidential candidate. We elected Obama because he was against the war the whole time, not when it was convenient later.

[still_one]

44. That is fine, but I am critiquing the Salon piece, and the author for not being entirely honest. As

for you view that Obama was elected because he was against the war, that may have been your view and others, but quite a few also voted for him because of the economic disaster that the republicans left us with. It can be argued that Bill Clinton was a contributory factor in the financial melt down, due to his policies of deregulation, but whether it is fair to extend that blame to Hillary, that is what makes primaries, an effort to debate and discuss where the candidates stand on the issues.

[magical thyme]

10. Israel's #1 shill? Seriously?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/04/bernie-sanderss-27-years-of-israel-answers/
"Palestinians are entitled to a state of their own," said Sanders, "and the United States should do what it can to make sure that state has a strong economy. Israel is entitled to live in security, not be attacked." Sanders, who if elected would be the first Jewish president, got applause for saying he'd skipped the congressional address of Israel's prime minister.

#t=115

A cynic might ask if Sanders has honed his patter since then. The truth is that he's been saying some of the same things for decades. A 1988 Sanders roundtable, recorded when he was mayor of Burlington, Vt. and trying to win a race for Congress, found him trying to calm the same waters he'd be swimming 27 years later.

Sanders's criticism of Benjamin Netanyahu and his support for the two-state solution and Iran nuclear deal are all firmly in the liberal mainstream. On the left, the discussion has moved on to whether people and institutions should boycott and divest from Israel so long as it occupies Palestinian land. In 2014, when asked by the Gallup Poll about Israel's latest military intervention in Gaza, a 47-31 plurality of Democrats called it "unjustified." Sanders sided with the majority -- but as he found at the town hall in Vermont, it wasn't enough.

[Left Ear]

24. If anything at all, HRC is Israel's #1 shill.

[Duppers]

25. Thank you!

[beam me up scottie]

31. Anyone who thinks Bernie is a "shill" for Israel because he's Jewish has issues.

He has been an outspoken critic of both Israel and Palestine.

[morningfog]

48. Yeah, anti-Semite issues.

Or maybe the hate is just so strong they aren't even clear at whom to direct it.

[still_one]

46. The two state solution has also been the official policy of the United States for over 50 years

You will not find a Democratic candidate not for that policy.

Sanders has been very clear regarding his support of Israel. He backs Israel, but but believes in spending less on defense assistance to Israel. When he was asked if he was a Zionist, Sanders in an interview with Ezra Klin I think Israel has the right to exist, and the U.S. should playing an even handed role in dealings with the Palestinian community.

He went on to argue that the United States has got to work with other countries to fight for Israel's security and existence, and at the same time work toward a Palestinian state.

He also has no problem defending Israel to a hostile crowd, but will also fault Israel. In a Vermont town hall, during the Gaza conflict, Sanders was commended for not signing onto a Senate resolution that solely blamed Hamas for the conflict. This pretty much summarizes his position on that:

“Has Israel overreacted? Have they bombed U.N. facilities? The answer is yes, and that is terribly, terribly wrong,” he said.
He also said that you have a situation where Hamas is sending missiles into Israel – a fact – and you know where some of those missiles are coming from. They’re coming from populated areas; that’s a fact. Hamas is using money that came into Gaza for construction purposes – and God knows they need roads and all the things that they need – and used some of that money to build these very sophisticated tunnels into Israel for military purposes.”

Hecklers were not happy with his response, and effectively told them to shut up because he was in the middle of answering a question.

This critical but supportive posture on Israel has been consistent.


 

[davidpdx]

64. It is so nice to see Hillary Clinton's supporters openly smear Sanders

and then play deaf, dumb, and mute when it's pointing out to them.

[Duppers]

19. Wow.

Bye.

[leftofcool]

23. +1

[Comrade Grumpy]

81. You're applauding an arguably anti-Semitic and now hidden message.

It figures.

[beam me up scottie]

84. Did you see their response in my thread about anti-Semitism?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=628265

It figures is right.

[Autumn]

90. No they are applauding a now banned troll

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=326360&sub=trans

[frylock]

26. You can't spell shill without Hill..

Hillary wants to give Israel F-35s.

[beam me up scottie]

30. WTF? Bernie is "Israel's #1 shill"???

Anti-Semitic much?

[hifiguy]

9. Kick and Rec.

A war-hawk owned by banksters and the MIC.

Just what this country does NOT need.

[cpwm17]

45. You may not be that far off:

http://www.ibtimes.com/campaign-2016-hillary-clinton-pitched-iraq-business-opportunity-us-corporations-2121999

When then-U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton voted to authorize the war against Iraq in 2002, she justified her support of the invasion as a way to protect America’s national security. But less than a decade later, as secretary of state, Clinton promoted the war-torn country as a place where American corporations could make big money.

“It's time for the United States to start thinking of Iraq as a business opportunity," she said in a 2011 speech.

The quote was included in an email released by the State Department on Wednesday that specifically mentioned JPMorgan and Exxon Mobil. JPMorgan was selected by the U.S. government to run a key import-export bank in Iraq and in 2013 announced plans to expand its operations in the country. Exxon Mobil signed a deal to redevelop Iraqi oil fields. JPMorgan has collectively paid the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation at least $450,000 for speeches, and Exxon Mobil has donated over $1 million to the family’s foundation.

[KoKo]

11. The CBS Interview: "We Came We Saw...He Died" was the last straw for me...

It told me everything I disliked about her Neo-Lib/DLC policy was for a good reason. She's a War Hawk with no compassion...and shows frightening behavior in this CBS NEWS video interview.



---------------

Hillary Clinton on Gaddafi: We Came, We Saw... He died!

[FairWinds]

12. Hillary also has to answer for . .

the coup in Honduras which not only gravely weakened
the democracy movement there, but also directly led to
human rights abuses and disappearances.

[asjr]

20. And we must not forget her act in Fort Sumter

leading to the Civil War and the 600,000 men killed. And if we go back far enough we realize she was the messenger for King George of England and worked for him. The Hessians tried to knock off George Washington because of her also. She helped the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor. Most people are not aware of that but we can be sure someone who dislikes her will let it be known. She has become Public Enemy No.1.

[frylock]

27. Is Secretary of State on her resume or not?

[TheKentuckian]

42. What is the alleged correlation between a Honduras coup and Ft Sumpter?

[green917]

63. bit of a false equivalency, don't you think?

You see, sec. Clinton was the nation's leading diplomatic figure when the coup in Honduras happened so it was her responsibility to deal with the American diplomatic response to said event (which, as the person you replied to noted, she didn't handled very well). Making the false equivalency that the op you replied to is somehow blaming sec. Clinton for something she couldn't possibly have effected any change in when it was, in fact, her job to address the Honduras coup on behalf of the us. State department is ridiculous to the point of being laughable and doesn't make your argument a very effective one.

[asjr]

72. I am beginning to believe no one on DU has a sense

of humor. I just got tired of all the nasty remarks about Hillary Clinton. No one else gets the treatment she gets. So I decided to write what I did. I usually confine my nasty to Republicans. I like Hillary Clinton. She has what it takes to become a president. As does Bernie Sanders. I really appreciate him. I know nothing about O'Malley but he is a Democrat so I like him. I first came to DU in 2002 and loved it. I don't engage in it much anymore. If I do I will use the Republicans as fodder.

[Maedhros]

77. She deserves every bit of criticism she gets.

Her hands are damned bloody.

[asjr]

79. AHA! I WAS RIGHT ABOUT SENSE OF HUMOR.

[beam me up scottie]

80. Have you seen the nasty remarks about Bernie?

According to Hillary supporters Bernie is a racist, a gun nut, a Republican man with his head between women's legs, who protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies and thinks that orgasms prevent cancer.

Poll showing HC supporters think Bernie is a racist.

And the latest: Bernie is Israel's #1 shill.

[asjr]

86. I don't think I have ever seen those gutter words about Bernie

on DU. He doesn't deserve it. Maybe those were used on the days I was not on DU. I should probably quit DU as no one seems to interpret my posts as I had hoped. All I wanted to do in my original post was to slip in a little humor in a mess of derogatory about Clinton. I thought I could lighten things up. I am for whomever wins. like Bernie, I like O'Malley, I like Joe Biden. I
like Hillary. DU has changed since I first joined. But it is replies like yours and others that make me wonder why I stay.

[beam me up scottie]

87. I just wanted you to realize it isn't all one sided.

I have no problem with what you posted, humour is always welcome but in GD P the silly season isn't very silly.

My suggestion is to stay on DU but trash GD P, post in the other forums and groups - lots of good stuff outside of here.

[uhnope]

14. I will never forget and

I am voting, volunteering and donating accordingly

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. But..but..they were just "mistakes". Faux pas. Bagatelles. Momentary blind spots.

Too bad for the hundreds of thousands dead.

[SoapBox]

17. K & R

No more Hillary.

[WillyT]

18. K & R !!!

[sabrina 1]

21. You cannot say you support minorities rights and women if you support war. Our FP is focused on

countries that belong to POC. And according to World Orgs who track the victims of our Imperial wars, women suffer unbelievably, losing rights they had before, see Iraq and Libya eg, and suffering unspeakable treatment from the brutal criminals who are free to roam their streets AFTER we destroy their social infrastructure.

I never, as a woman, trusted a war hawk who claimed to be a supporter of women. The two simply don't go together.

[Maedhros]

78. Women and children always suffer the most from the depredations of war.

She chuckles and quips "We came, we saw, he died" when millions of Libyan women and children were thrust into a nightmare of violence and desperation because the United States ginned up a pack of lies to justify intervention.

Tell me again how much Hillary "cares" about women and children.

[McKim]

28. I Will Never Forget Her Iraq War Vote

I will never forget how disappointed I was in her as a woman. I will never forget the anguish and pain of the Night of Shock and Awe as my family went to bed crying that night. I will never forget the pain we feel knowing that hundreds of thousands of people have died and the rest have no real home in Iraq. I will never forget that she follows the orders of the Project for the New American Century.
I told this to the Democratic Party when they called me to support her. I said: "You know over 500,000 people are dead over in Iraq and more than 4,000 of our own, a country destroyed. That is real evil. I never vote for warmongers."

[RBInMaine]

29. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Another day, another anti-Hillary load of shit. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[HooptieWagon]

33. She's the gift that keeps on giving....

...every time she opens her mouth.
Once, she was against the Vietnam War. It appears she's 'evolved' into a war-monger now. I wonder how much her 'evolving' has to do with MIC donations.

[KoKo]

40. Indeed...it seems she has learned NOTHING...............

And, now we are supposed to Support Her because of her Power?

[treestar]

70. It's completely crap

To label her a "war hawk." They should save that for real ones like McCain and Condi.

[Comrade Grumpy]

82. Brilliant rebuttal. n/t

[PatrickforO]

34. We don't need, and cannot afford another war, period.

Too many of our children have already died and been maimed for life, and FOR WHAT???????????????????

So fucking Halliburton could make more PROFITS??????

That's just WRONG on so many levels.

That's why I'm supporting Bernie, and cannot in good conscience support Clinton. I'm too afraid she'll make a mistake and get us into another war. And the sad thing of it is, this nation could end up in total ruins, but the deep state - the military industrial oligarchs - they'll be just fine. Because their color has never been red, white and blue.

Their color is green, for money. That's all they care about, have ever cared about.

I'm sorry, Secretary Clinton, for that reason alone (though there are many others), I cannot support your candidacy for the office of president of the United States. I just can't.

[KoKo]

41. ...! We focus on Fear and War and All of us Suffer!

Too Much, Too Long and WHO BENEFITS? Not "The People!"

[ish of the hammer]

35. what I find interesting

is that Clinton is suggesting a "no-fly zone" in Syria now. The only place I've seen it mentioned is here at DU.
Is it true?

[Thespian2]

36. K & R !!!!

[Doctor_J]

38. maybe she's evolved on this issue

Like everything else

[beam me up scottie]

39. Kick!

[hifiguy]

43. It's not easy to forget when she pals around with war criminals.

[Thinkingabout]

51. It is not easy to forget someone who pals around with the sandinistas either.

[beam me up scottie]

53. Who pals around with Sandinistas?

Last edited Sat Oct 3, 2015, 01:34 AM - Edit history (1)

[hifiguy]

55. Imagine that. Wanting to overthrow

a brutal hereditary dictatorship that killed tens of thousands with the support of the CIA. Try again.

Red-bait much?

[99Forever]

47. I see who she hangs with when she isn't trying to bullshit real Democrats.

My grandchildren deserve better.

[morningfog]

49. How can we forget? Her Iran speech, her no fly zone in Syria.

She is a screeching war hawk trough and through and seemingly proud of it.

This is reason number one I will not vote for her.

[Thinkingabout]

50. Is this like the war hawk who wanted to bomb Yugoslavia?

Or the one voting to go into Afghanistan?

[beam me up scottie]

54. If you mean the man who wanted to stop a genocide that would be Bernie.

And if you mean the one who wanted to go after Bin Laden after 9/11 that would also be Bernie.

Who said "We came, we saw, he died"?

Who laughed at the thought of war with Iran?

[Sunlei]

57. She's an American and our entire country has a disastrous war record. we aren't allowed to blame

liars like bush or war profiteers (Federal money leeches) like cheney according to "Salon story writers"

[magical thyme]

58. Salon has a long history of blaming Bush/Cheney for their war

and yeah, she's an American...or did you leave out ?

https://www.google.com/#q=bush+iraq+salon (500k responses to bush + iraq + salon query)
a few current headlines
Jeb Bush’s gigantic Iraq fail: Why he’s handling his brother’s toxic legacy in just about the worst way possible
George W. Bush’s CIA briefer admits Iraq WMD “intelligence” was a lie
GOP's alarming Iraq amnesia: Jeb Bush, WMDs & the lies ...
Yes, Bush lied about Iraq: Why are we still arguing about this?
Donald Rumsfeld comes to Jesus - Salon.com
Jeb's Iraq mess just got worse - Salon.com
6 instances where Jeb Bush definitively supported the war ...
When lapdogs rolled over for Bush: The mainstream media's ...
No, Bush was not right about Iraq: How conservatives ...

a few 2014 headlines
GOP Claim Chemical Weapons in Iraq Prove Bush Was ...

2007, from DailyKos based on a Salon article
Bush Knew There Were No WMDs BEFORE Iraq War - New ...

2007 -- Salon disses right-wing ct
Right-wing blogs discover massive conspiracy to hide WMDs in Iraq

https://www.google.com/#q=cheney+iraq+salon (385,000 responses)

recent headlines:
Dick Cheney's savage revisionist history - Salon.com
Dick Cheney's despicable alternate history just got even worse
Dick Cheney's staggering Iran hypocrisy - Salon.com
Listen, it's still their f**king fault: Bush, Cheney, neo-con drivel

2014
Dick Cheney, Iraq and the ghosts of Vietnam - Salon.com

2004
Cheney's favorite leak

The vice president hails an "inaccurate" leak and provokes a new battle in the White House war with the intelligence community.

By Eric Boehlert

Jan. 27, 2004 (Salon.com) Vice President Dick Cheney's claim that a magazine article, based on leaked and unevaluated intelligence, definitively proved links between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden has triggered a new round in the Bush administration's conflict with the intelligence community.

"It's disgusting," said Vincent Cannistraro, the former CIA chief of counter-terrorism. "It's bullshit," said Ray McGovern, a former CIA analyst who served in the agency's Near East division.

[Sunlei]

59. not enough at all. they sway and write for the money. the big bucks are writing anti-clinton stories

[beam me up scottie]

60. Can you defend her vote or not? it's not Salon's fault she voted to give Bush his war.

[Sunlei]

67. No, I think all the people, millions of them who backed bush and let cheney rape americans federal f

rape americans federal funds suck.

Some suck less than others especially if now in 2015 they admit if they knew then, what they know today they would have voted differently.

[beam me up scottie]

68. Fair enough.

[magical thyme]

61. over half a million hits criticizing Bush/Iraq war, dating back to the beginning is not enough?

Ok. Whatever.

[sabrina 1]

65. Okay so you agree that Bush/Cheney were responsible for the horror of Iraq.

Great because airc, most Democratic VOTERS were almost 100% united on that. And as we know, have been proven to have been right. Airc, even morons like Bill O'Reilly promised to apologize if it turned out Bush/Cheney were lying. We KNEW they were lying so that was an easy bet. We won, airc.

Hillary however voted to give the awesome power to go to war to one of the most obviously lying Administrations in the history of most living Americans.

THAT is the issue here, and no we won't forget because we cannot continue to give such enormous powers to people who either agree with neocon policies or do not have the judgement to see what liars they were.

It's very simple, a leader needs to show characteristics such as Judgement and Foresight. That is how I make up MY mind about who is the best choice to give this powerful job to.

On so many issues, Hillary has shown herself to make wrong decisions at times when people's lives and well being were at stake. At those times she was STRONG in defending her reasons for making those decisions. Only to have to apologize hears later.

Elected office is not the place to do your evolving. Too many lives are affected by those who are not able to see the disastrous results, I consider the deaths of human beings, even a few, to be a disastrous result of a bad decision, of their opinions AT THE TIME when it will matter.

[whereisjustice]

66. lol - here they come, why does SALON hate Hillary ?

Oh, the irony.

[treestar]

69. "War Hawk" is extremely exaggerated

McCain or Cheney are "war hawks." I never do approve the need to apply the most extreme label to everything. It waters it down. Disagree with Hillary about Iraq, all she did was vote as a Senator to give the President authority to invade.

What a waste of time. It would be better to spend time proving BS would be able to handle foreign policy so well there would be no wars.

I do not believe for a second Hillary would look for a war the way a Republican would.

[whereisjustice]

74. Libya, Syria, Yemen, Hondurous and Iraq - all part of her interventionalist neo-con State Dept

She not only went looking for war - she fomented it.

[Comrade Grumpy]

83. "I do not believe for a second Hillary would look for a war the way a Republican would."

Except right now, she's aligned with Carly Fiorina, Jeb Bush, John McCain, and scary insane guy Sen. Tom Cotton on wanting to impose a no-fly zone in Syria.

And she certainly looked for a war in Libya.

And she threatens to militarily attack Iran.

Hell, who needs Republicans? We've got Hillary!

[AtomicKitten]

88. She's a neoliberal on foreign policy.

http://www.vice.com/read/hillary-clintons-foreign-policy-is-already-terrifying-812

[cheapdate]

71. There are those Americans who view many of these points

as a strength and not a weakness, even if very few of those Americans are on DU.

For instance, her assertion that she “not hesitate to take military action if Iran tries to obtain a nuclear weapon” is a strength for some voters, as is her unyielding support for Israel.

I can't say how many potential Democratic voters feel that way (I sure don't feel that way), or whether or not they are electorally significant, but they exist in places around the country.

[Faux pas]

76. Kickin'

[Uncle Joe]

85. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, magical thyme.