2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSpeculation has it that Harry Reid's Source comes from within the Mormon Church...
Harry Reid and Romney share the Mormon faith, and Reid is the highest ranking politico of that faith. Speculation has it that Reid's source for Romney's tax evasion may be within their Church.
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/08/01/harry-reid-gives-mitt-hell/
rfranklin
(13,200 posts)"Look, see, I owe no income taxes. That means I had no income. Maybe next year..."
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)"Mitt lied to God"
..if true, that is going to be a tough one to 'splain.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)if he has any designs on being a high official like his dad was or even "Prophet" like Ezra Taft Benson.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...it would be the Council of the Twelve Apostles, a.k.a. The High Command.
Mitt paints himself as a devout pillar of the Mormon faith, and worthy of the trust of the Church. Someone who is exposed as lying about tithing and cheating the church would be a modern-day pariah.
dmr
(28,349 posts)worried that he could lose his standing or whatever they call it in the Mormon Church.
His greed not only cheats America, but his church as well. Not good.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)hlthe2b
(102,341 posts)I could see how seeing those returns and knowing he was lying to the church about tithing 10% (for example) might really rankle over the years.... He might still have told a fellow Mormon, such as Reid--even though Reid is a DEM.
Retrograde
(10,146 posts)and some men high up in LDS circles don't want him that high in the hierarchy. I think he's up on his tithings, but has been using some shady means to get around paying taxes - like claiming residency in one state for tax purposes and another for voting - and if it becomes public the powers that be think it may ultimately be bad for the Church.
Would know along with xxxx group of people who selected his VP choice. It may be worth it to look at the book "Game Change" because they talking about the vp vetting process. The people they list will have direct knowledge of Romneys returns.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)Per Rachel Maddow's show yesterday, "You guys have said his wealth is $250 million dollars", Reid went on. "Not a chance in the world. It's a lot more than that."
Romney's true net worth would probably be a hot topic of conversation among Mormon insiders, if the issue of tithing were to come up.
LiberalFighter
(51,029 posts)Considering that the trust for his boys is worth at least $100 million.
Raster
(20,998 posts)....day-to-day Americans, not spoon-fed rich kids. No, the Rmoney trust fund boys will get their money the good old fashioned American way: their daddy stole it.
speedoo
(11,229 posts)No one should need any inside info to understand that.
tosh
(4,424 posts)I feel strongly that it's a B number.
Response to reACTIONary (Original post)
Deitrick Message deleted by the DU Administrators
Tom Ripley
(4,945 posts)I didn't mean to delete that troll post. Oh well...
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)...another "one post wonder" bites the dust!
enough
(13,262 posts)It's the IRS he would be hiding from, presumably, as well as the Mormon church.
LiberalFighter
(51,029 posts)How much of that money was reported and where is it kept now?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)you can legally have a ton of money and use loopholes to legally get out of paying taxes on portions of it.
but on those same taxes, it would become obvious whether he tithed 10% on all the income, part of it, or didn't tithe 10% at all.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)They even fired execs in companies they owned for not being mormon.
I'm of the opinion that being a partner of Bain probably provides more insight than being mormon.
But being mormon might have pushed the person to leak.
Mormons are expected to comply with the tax law of the country in which they resided, to do otherwise is a serious violation of church policy which can cause a member to be denied a temple recommend and to be disallowed from holding offices of responsibility in the church.
Considering that, it's possible that a mormon business partner of Romney shared knowledge of Romney's break with church policy with Reid.
LiberalFighter
(51,029 posts)That they can move up the line?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)but then there are a whole lot of creative claims about mormons.
ellie_belly
(47 posts)When I lived in SLC in the 90s I heard this. Because the church teaches not to question authority they end up being pretty good at military jobs and other "don't ask, just do" stuff. I think the Secret Service is up close to 40%.
spinbaby
(15,090 posts)Mormons have an excellent language program because of all that missionary work, they don't drink, and they usually come up squeaky clean for security clearance.
Raster
(20,998 posts)...high level positions of power for much of the same reasons.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Of all the stooges that threw their hats into the ring he was the only one close to being a normal human, so on that alone maybe he had a bit part in this as well as he is Mormon too.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)If Huntsman is the snitch, that would be deliciously ironic
elfin
(6,262 posts)It fits. Mormon, more of a straight arrow like Reid, mega rich family probably in close relationship with Bain at some point, disgusted at Rmoney's antics and lies. If not him, he's in the mix some way.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)with the average Mormon, and I would guess the upper echelon of the LDS church, I'd say this speculation is probably misguided. If anyone at the Mormon church ever saw anyone's tax return (which I sincerely doubt happens, although I've often thought it 'convenient' that the IRS office for that region is in Ogden) they sure as hell wouldn't talk about it, especially to someone whose political views don't square with theirs.
dmr
(28,349 posts)I suppose it might depend on who in the church. I don't know really, I don't understand how their leadership works.
kooljerk666
(776 posts)go read congress.org , i do not think there are any DEM LDS folks.
braddy
(3,585 posts)built for, and which average Mormons, (about 85%) are not allowed into.
As Prophet Hinckley instructed. "May I speak also of a matter pertinent to temples? I remind you of the absolute obligation to not discuss outside the temple that which occurs within the temple." "Please, brethren, do not discuss outside of the temple that which occurs in the temple."
The 10% tithing is an absolute and if needed, verified requirement for the Temple recommend and a Temple Mormon must be rechecked and interviewed by the Bishop and Stake President every 2 years.
Bishop Mitt Romney's father by the way, Bishop George Romney, tithed about 19%.
I don't think that we will see him cheating the religion and destroying his route to becoming a God and ruling a planet, I think that we will find that while minimizing his taxes, he was sending 10s of millions into Mormonism, which many of his base won't like. I think that is what will make people uneasy, brutal business in making his money, so that he could lavish it on Mormonism to convert his voter's sons and daughters away from their Christian religion.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)what Hinckley was talking about was temple rituals that require a "temple recommend" to get into. It's not that hard, just go tell your bishop that you've been following all of the rules and laws of the LDS church, and don't have any behavior that someone else knows about that can conflict with that. The temple rituals are pretty goofy, and they would cause a lot of prospective converts to really get weirded out.
I really don't think that the upper echelon of the LDS church is going to do anything to screw up Mitt's chances, frankly, I'd expect them to be sending him some deniable form of rebuke.
braddy
(3,585 posts)the religion and the wearing of the magic under garments 24 hours a day, your ID card has to be issued every year (seriously, annual ID? even the military does not do that), you have to submit to re-qualification every 2 years, what takes place in there is secret and you are forbidden to allow the knowledge to leak out to average Mormons.
It used to require personal granting from the Holy Prophet, today it requires personal interviews and receiving permission from your Bishop and then his superior, the Stake President, and all this only last 2 years, and then you have to be re-evaluated.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)only that I think there are more than 15% of Mormons willing to jump through the hoops to get the card. The only really verifiable part is the tithing, even without seeing someone's tax return, it's still possible to figure out what a worker makes to see if the ten percent is probably being ponied up.
In order to have or even witness a temple marriage, one has to at least fake a Morgasm to get in, and many Mormons are willing to do it, from what I've heard.
braddy
(3,585 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)nor have I ever been one, nor will I ever be one (I really love beer and wine too damned much) my point is only that the temple-recommended Mormons are not as elite a group as they're made out to be. Many of them are more than willing to either jump through the hoops, or pretend that they have for it to be a tiny minority of them.
Whatever you want to assert about what they think, feel, and believe is fine with me, you're probably right.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)agentS
(1,325 posts)While not a Mormon myself, I have heard some speculation online from various sources (one here on DU, and one on a MSM site, and on an Online magazine site) that having Romney become the president will negatively affect the perception of the religion. Mainly, it will ding their efforts to reconcile with gays after the Prop 8hate incident, and with a Mormon as the 'face' of the US, specifically foreign policy, it will dampen their efforts with getting converts overseas thru missionaries. Though I doubt there will be a situation where President R-Money calls down drone strikes which accidentally kills Mormon missionaries in Pakistan's tribal lands, it probably is something the Church is weighing.
Maybe they're trying to sink the guy before he damages the brand? That's my guess.
cr8tvlde
(1,185 posts)Mormons have always struggled to live in a society in which they do not fully participate as a result of their beliefs. Mormon kids have a tough time and there is always a sense of being apart from most through their strong family system, the church and their high ideals and impeccable behavior.
Mitt is making a mockery of their moral high ground. (Prop 8)
braddy
(3,585 posts)agentS
(1,325 posts)And is he regretting it now?
braddy
(3,585 posts)Money is a given, for instance to become a Temple Mormon who are the only Mormons allowed into those glorious temples that we all see.
Most of us assume those are for all Mormons, but they aren't, regular Mormons, about 85% of Mormons, are limited to the plain simple church buildings that we don't even notice, they are forbidden to enter the temples and lack the ID that is re-verified and re-issued every year and which requires personal re-examination every 2 years and being interviewed by both the Bishop and his superior, the Stake President, Mitt has held both positions, (all Temple interviews used to be with the Prophet himself when the religion was smaller).
The Romneys were converted in England and then immediately immigrated to the US in 1842 to serve Joseph Smith (roughly 50 wives, 1 was 14), the Romneys are Mormon royalty, and are very powerful, producing much of the leadership and many tens of millions of dollars of wealth for the religion.
The Romneys are a family of Tom Cruises for Mormonism, by the way Harry Reid is a part of that inner circle also, he is a Temple Mormon with the 10% tithe and magic underwear day and night, and forbidden to speak on the secrets of the Temples.
BSUbluNorange
(78 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)BSUbluNorange
(78 posts)braddy
(3,585 posts)president and received permission from the Holy Prophet of Mormonism, it might change your view of Bishop Romney?
BSUbluNorange
(78 posts)I took your comment as the Prphet approved of Mitt's run and supported it/wanted him to. I'm not familiar with this conversation between them and that's why I was looking for a point of reference.
braddy
(3,585 posts)Which is true of course.
This is from Sunstone Magazine November, 2005. (Sunstone Education Foundation, Inc., a 501(c)(3) nonprofit corporation, that discusses Mormonism through scholarship, art, short fiction, and poetry.)
"At that time, a senior LDS official close to the First Presidency said that some members of the Quorum were dismayed at Romneys position on abortion even if they understood it was consistent with the doctrine of agency.
They realized it would serve no purpose to quibblethe greater good was to get him elected, to give him a fair shot at realizing the victory his father booted forty years earlier."
(snip)
"As if to underscore his personal angst, as he has done in the past, he sought advice from the man he admires most in this world: Mormon president Gordon Bitner Hinckley.
The conversation eventually turned to whether a run for the presidency would be good for him and the Church. The specifics of the conversation are, of course, known only to people who were there. However, Romney left with the clear impression that the upbeat Mormon prophet was not worried one whit about the additional scrutiny a presidential campaign might focus on the Church and its teachings but was emphatic about steering wide of any and all partisan political involvements."
BSUbluNorange
(78 posts)Especially the last paragraph, thats what I thought a conversation of that nature should consist of.
braddy
(3,585 posts)of the Holy Prophet of Mormonism.
That last paragraph was merely speculation by a devoted mormon writer and a fellow follower of the holy Prophet, he admits that he actually knows nothing of what was said in the secret meeting as Mitt was granted permission for his effort to become President of the United States.
BSUbluNorange
(78 posts)I'd say no, it sounds like this was more counsel.. I guess i'm lost as to what point you're trying to make. If its that Mitt is a puppet of the church then i'm going to have to disagree with you.
braddy
(3,585 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)They know it will be wonderful for recruitment overseas, anybody in a Third World country that gets the notion that converting to Mormonism will grease the skids on getting to immigrate to the US will not be officially discouraged from that erroneous idea by the missionaries.
They'd love with all their hearts to have Romney win the big prize. Ever since the LDS church did a U-turn after losing in the Supreme Court in the late 19th Century, they've striven for acceptance by the larger society. They think that their stands against equal marriage put them into the mainstream of American thought, and with the ballot boxes affirming that bigotry, I guess I don't blame them for thinking that most people are on their side on this issue.
I don't think missionaries of any non-Islamic religion are allowed in Pakistan or any other severely observant Muslim nation, so there's no worry about Elder Freshface being taken out by friendly fire.
BSUbluNorange
(78 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)So what's your point?
longship
(40,416 posts)Odds on favorite, Bert, well known to be associated with Bin Ladin.
Wish I could post the pic with my iPhone.
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)shanen
(349 posts)(1) Reid might be acting on orders of the Mormon elders and this is somehow a plan to defuse Rmoney's tax-returns problems.
(2) It might be a plan something like what they did to Dan Rather where they use partial twisted truths to destroy an enemy.
The truth is clearly that Romney has LOTS of things to hide in his tax returns. If the balance of the information in the tax returns was in his favor then he would obviously release them. We already know that Romney has SOMETHING to hide. If the truth was in his favor, then the longer it's out there, the better, so we know the truth is AGAINST Romney. Again.
I hate lies and liars, and Romney is even worse than Nixon in terms of lying.
Q: How do you tell when Romney is lying?
A: His lips are moving.
Only truth Romney could tell, but he never would speak this truth. Romney believes "Vote for me so that government of the corporations, by the lawyers, for the richest 0.1% of Americans, shall rule the earth."
Oh yeah, on the Mormon topic. Let's imagine you believe in god and you believe he decided to pick a new spokesman. Don't you think he could have found someone better than the convicted con man Joseph Smith? I think the LDS was created by a liar, and Rmoney is the perfect representative.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)no further than you can throw them.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)from the LDS Church (he'd 'repent' and become a Rethuglican, if that were the case) it does occur to me that he's been used as a tool. I wouldn't put it past the fathers of the LDS church to find a way to feed him a line of bullshit that could be refuted by release of the tax returns, the same way the birthers were exposed as fools by the President releasing his BC.
If that's the case, then they really went far with it, because the most 'credible' birther out there who could always get a microphone any time he wanted it was Trump. Having Harry stand on the floor of the Senate to make his ten-years-no-taxes charge must have made the perpetrators of such a scheme giggle their asses off.
Look at it this way: We all know that Mittens is going to have to cough up tax returns in order to have a shot of winning over enough independents to pull this thing off, what if it could be constructed to really have some devastating impact? If he had released the returns when first asked, months ago, it would have probably been a ho-hum, "look at his foreign investments" story. However, if the Senate Majority Leader made an outrageous charge that was simply not true, that becomes the story, and not overseas bank accounts.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)Only time will tell. The whole thing is like a house of cards.
Kteachums
(331 posts)Harry is not a Senator who is quick to open his mouth. He has too much at stake to lie.
If those tax returns do come out I wonder if they will be doctored? He certainly has had enough time. I wish we could prove all of this without waiting. Doesn't the US Government have this information? Anyway, if Harry said it it is "right on"!
ancianita
(36,130 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)in his favorability in NV and may not even run again - think it's 2016.
that is why he doesn't give a shit that Jon Stewart or anyone else trashes him.
I will try to find the article
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)to Reid. Shit, how many Bain investers are friends with Reid and are Mormon??
It struck me that when Robme said "put up or shut up", he was more concerned about who said it than whether or not it was true.
Like he wanted the name, not the proof he didn't pay taxes
DemocracyInaction
(2,506 posts)They get a shit load of money from Romney - 10% or not - and would not cut off their cash cow. He also made a lot of those boys rich out there with Olympic contracts (how much graft was that). And he would have done their bidding as Gov of Mass. The Mormons have great ambition to get into that White House. They have infiltrated many big, big businesses in this country and you can't rise up the ladder in them if you are not Mormon. Someone in Bain, I suspect, did not like him or didn't get promotions, etc. but was in a position to see and handle Mitt's finances.
braddy
(3,585 posts)cr8tvlde
(1,185 posts)...balls. Hardball. Perhaps the Democrats will understand that "playing nice" and bipartisanship is an ancient political memory of the past. This race is so important because, if for no other reason, the SCOTUS. They never term out, die (hardly) or have accountability to we little people. Word is 3 want to retire and 2 of them from the Right persuasion, but if a Democrat is elected, they will stay on. Imagine who Mitt would send over there.
Too bad Reid is about to retire, and even worse why that was the reason he could do what he did. Questions about taxes are NOTHING, and I repeat NOTHING close to the smear websites, the joker poster, digging up deceased grandmother and mother and half brothers trampling on them, calling abominable names, gun and cross hairs, shaming Michelle and making fun of her, making fun of his religion and his pastor...ad nauseum.
Hell, one mention of great grandpas 12 wives sent Right and Left pulling up the proverbial covers to hide.
Sorry, they set the bar. Now, can we get more than Harry Reid to join in defense of anything or anyone Left of the Center Right?
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)ThomThom
(1,486 posts)to save the country when Pres.
My information is he is not.