2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA leader leads, a follower follows
Bernie is a leader. Clinton is a follower.
Example: Keystone. Higher education. Drug prices. TPP. Wall Street reform.
Bernie has already led by example, laid down public policies, and even introduced legislation to support his policies.
Clinton follows by changing her stance or triangulating her stance to closely match Bernie. To me, that is a follower and an imitation of what is actually working for Bernie.
That is why I'm a solid Bernie supporter, Clinton has already failed to prove that she can stand on her own.
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leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Ya know, like the Brady Bill.
Time_Lord
(60 posts)is very mainstream.
Sanders Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban
WASHINGTON, April 17 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.
“Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities,” Sanders said. “There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others,” Sanders added.
The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. “To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories,” Sanders said.
Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales – up to 40 percent of all gun transfers – at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between “family, friends, and neighbors.”
In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban
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SunSeeker
(57,917 posts)Although, he still says NRA type talking points to justify his prior stances.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Last edited Sat Oct 10, 2015, 04:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Well before Hillary ran for office so there goes that talking point.
SunSeeker
(57,917 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)So your claim that "he followed Hillary's lead" is nonsense.
SunSeeker
(57,917 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And has already been explained several time he didn't vote against the Brady Bill because he's pro-gun:
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm
SunSeeker
(57,917 posts)...is not being pro gun control.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Q: Do you support the DC handgun ban?
A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case you’re referring to is before the Supreme Court.
Q: But what do you support?
A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.
Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?
A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.
Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?
A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that they’re going to try to impose, I think doesn’t make sense.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary , Apr 16, 2008
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm
SunSeeker
(57,917 posts)She was defending a local (municipal) gun control ordinance, and in no way suggested that federal law should not apply. Indeed, she opined that courts might overturn a total ban (she was right). She never even used the words "states rights."
Bernie, on the other hand, said states, not the federal government, should decide waiting periods to justify opposing the Brady waiting period --even though Brady in no way coflicted with any law on the books in Vermont. Indeed, as far as I know, Vermont had no waiting period at all and virtually no state gun control laws to speak of. His was just a bullshit talking point to justify opposition to an utterly reasonable and commonplace gun control measure.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Someone's not an it getter and I don't think it's me.
The "gun nut" meme is dead, Jim!
Let it go!
SunSeeker
(57,917 posts)But I will grant you he was pandering to his gun loving rural constituents. I think that vote is what got him into Congress, since his opponent favored gun control and got hit with negative ads by the NRA.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)So to bring this back to the absurd claim that started all this - Bernie is not "following Hillary's lead" since his pro-gun control record predates her running for office.
SunSeeker
(57,917 posts) 
frylock
(34,825 posts)mark it on the scorecard.
elleng
(141,926 posts)'For people that have been following this race for a long time this may look like the final two minutes of the game but I think this was actually the opening kickoff. So I'm looking forward to a debate where we actually discuss the ideas. . .
I think the very fact that we're going out on that stage is a big step up. . .
Well I think we have to learn from the mistakes of our past. I think NAFTA was a huge mistake for us. As a country we lost a lot of jobs, caused a lot of displacement. I was in Newton today where you used to have all sorts of people employed at Maytag and that is no more. . .
There are aspects of this deal like the ability of multinational corporations to actually sue our government to evade labor standards, to evade environmental standards and all of this is a blind rush for cheaper labor abroad. I don't think that helps our country. . .
Henderson: Clinton is now on your side on this issue -- your indictment is --
O'Malley: Which one?
Henderson: Hillary Clinton on the TPP.
O'Malley: She has changed on a few issues. Keystone Pipeline was another one.
Henderson: So now that she is against that as well as the TPP are you suggesting that her positions are unsure, that people should look at them askance?
O'Malley: What I'm saying is that in all of my years of executive service, executive leadership, I have always understood where I stood. . .
I have always been straight with people, even on very difficult issues involving criminal justice, public safety. When I ran for Mayor of Baltimore in 1999 it wasn't because our city was doing well. We had to turn that around. And that's the sort of leadership that I think people want. And I believe that Secretary Clinton can come on this show and answer for herself why she shifted her positions on so many issues over the course of these last few months. I was against Trans Pacific Partnership eight months ago. I was against Keystone eight months ago. I have put out the most comprehensive plan for Wall Street reform that also calls for reinstating Glass-Steagall so we're not all on the hook for bailing out the mega banks when their bets go bad. She has yet to come to that position but I'm hopeful she will. I hope we forge a new consensus on this stage for any number of issues and that's what a campaign should be about. But it's also about leadership, it's about who has the ability to actually step up and do the difficult things that need to be done regardless of whether they're popular.'
http://www.iptv.org/iowapress/episode.cfm/4306/video/ip_20151009_4306
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)
Sid
Lisa D
(1,532 posts)
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)
Sid
Lisa D
(1,532 posts)On Sat Oct 10, 2015, 01:18 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=662871
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Why is Sid Dithers bothering newbies?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Oct 10, 2015, 01:24 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sid waving hello to a newbie is not "bothering" them, let alone rude or over the top. Ridiculous alert.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why is the alerter stalking Sid Dithers?
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: christ
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Are you kidding me with this alert?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: When waving smileys are outlawed only outlaws will have waving smileys YOU WILL HAVE TO PRY MAH WAVING SMILEY FROM MAH COLD DEAD HANDS
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Either "Side" edited his post, or this person is way too quick on the reporting trigger. I do wish DU would implement some limits on reporting: if they lose so many, they have that ability taken away for 30 days or something. This one is just silly.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bothering? Leave it.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)SidDithers
(44,333 posts)
Sid
BooScout
(10,409 posts) 
treestar
(82,383 posts)I'm sure Hillary is capable of thinking for herself.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)
oasis
(53,436 posts)Should he get a primary challenge from a Democrat with more vision and leadership?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Go Bernie!
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Before the first debate, or just stand on the sidelines slinging mud? A leader doesn't just point out America's problems, anyone can do that. A leader proposes solutions, something Hillary has done plenty of and Sanders has done very little of.
riversedge
(80,088 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)We chastised republicans who wanted to "repeal and replace Obamacare", yet had (still) no alternative for the replacement.
TheFarS1de
(1,017 posts)Sanders will do the smart thing and announce his proposals at the debate . We all know how much some of the other contestants are known for copying others work 
ColesCountyDem
(6,944 posts) Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)I've come to feel sorry for her. She's been waiting her adult life to be the first female president. She believed she would run uncontested and this campaign would be simply a coronation. The competition from a popular populist has caused her to come completely unglued.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)they just send out proxies like Brock and McCaskill and whistle-shrilling hall-monitor types
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Bernie says I can't do it you have to do it. That is not a leader.
Bernie is taking money to push the Democratic party (which he is not a member of) to the left then will bow out after Super Tuesday. That is not a leader.
He waited until we were sure Warren wasn't going to run because you all would follow her if she did. That is not a leader.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)Bernie says I can't do it you have to do it. That is not a leader.
No, he says that he can't do it alone, which is absolutely true. Look at everything that Obama has had to deal with during the last 7 years. After all the momentum he generated during his campaign, he finally got elected and said, "Thank you very much. I'll take it from here." Give props to the guy for trying, but without grassroots support pressuring Congress he wasn't able to achieve everything he wanted to achieve. Bernie is right. We all have to do our part during and after the election.
Bernie is taking money to push the Democratic party (which he is not a member of) to the left then will bow out after Super Tuesday. That is not a leader.
I wouldn't count your chickens quite yet. And I'm glad that the party is moving left. It needs to. Our country needs to.
He waited until we were sure Warren wasn't going to run because you all would follow her if she did. That is not a leader.
First of all, you have no proof that what you said is true. But even if it is, the only thing that says about Bernie Sanders is that he doesn't have an inflated ego. Of course progressives would have flocked to Warren. There were several political movements pushing her to run, and she was polling in the teens despite her hesitation to do so. The guy isn't delusional.
YabaDabaNoDinoNo
(460 posts)Flip Flop all day long, she will do or say anything if she thinks it will get he votes.
It is sad and pathetic she comes across as a disingenuous faux populist these days.
Everyone knows Hillary is a Moderate Corporatist Centrist at best, she needs to run like one and stop lying to the people pretending to be something she is not.