I'll Ask It Again... While Avoiding Tender Feelings... Because I Really Want To Know...

[WillyT]

ANY... DUer/Democrat... who has ANY insight to the inner-workings of the DNC/Dem Party/Wash D.C.

Tell Us EXACTLY...

Why The System Works The Way It Does..

And Inform Us... As To How Voting For Lying Establishment Politicians, Media Figures, Et. Al.

Makes This Country Any Better ???

All opinions are welcome here.

BTW - I think it's all based upon an agreed upon lie...

And many of us are done playing the game.

[restorefreedom]

1. i would like to know too

my guess is a big role for money and favors for those in power

it does not help us but them

[uppityperson]

2. My question back is who thinks voting would "make this country any better"?

I vote to slow down the getting worse.

[senz]

102. First off, our Constitution makes us self-governing.

Here's a stab at the rest of it --

We govern ourselves by electing representative to enact laws to protect our rights and serve our needs and interests as citizens. An informed electorate tends to vote wisely, protecting worthwhile institutions, our rights as citizens, and the environment. An electorate is considered informed if it has 1) a basic education that includes civics, history, basic science, critical thinking, enough economics and philosophy to assess issues intelligently, and 2) unbiased exposure to current events, including the activities of our elected representatives and occurrences that effect our lives locally and in the world.

That's roughly how it's supposed to work. Voting should, under the right circumstances, "make this country any better."

Currently the system has been corrupted by money that buys off our representatives, has bought and monopolized the media, thus impacting our exposure to events that affect us, and has limited education to vocational training for the majority.

You can probably think of additional points and examples. It may seem unexciting, but this is one of the most important topics there is.

[merrily]

107. That would make an excellent OP.

I would love to hear the arguments for not voting, which I think does nothing but play into the hands of the worst people.

As if a President who will get elected by 10% of the population will care about the statement allegedly being made by those who stayed home.

I know some thing a low turnout is going to de-legitimize the government (more than when Congressional approval ratings drop to single digits?) and therefore topple it, but I think that is a pipe dream. And even it that were to happen, what would step two be?

[uppityperson]

121. Do not mistake what I wrote for not voting as that is in no way what I meant

I have been able to vote to make things better only a couple times. I always vote and get others to also, to keep things from worsening, of to slow down the speed at which things worsen.

Always vote.

[zappaman]

3. Is not voting better?

[WillyT]

6. I Did Not Say ANYTHING About Not Voting...

I have voted every time since the 22nd Amendment.

Jerry Brown for CA Gov in 1974. I was 19.

And every time since.

Not my question...

[zappaman]

10. I didn't say you did.

I asked a question.
Sorry if it stumped you.

[daleanime]

51. Yes you did....

in response to a question. So maybe if you answered first it would make things a little more plain.

[demwing]

34. Do non sequiturs order pizza?

DO they?

[zappaman]

41. Yes.

Any other insightful questions?

Here's one that seems to stump some people...
Is Sanders a Democrat?
And if he becomes one, would that make him a hypocrite since he has said it would be hypocritical of him to join the Democratic Party.

Good questions, amirite?

[daleanime]

53. Here's another.....

has the Democratic Party rejected Bernie help in the past? You know, when he was caucusing and voting with them?

[senz]

103. Did Bernie work to help elect various Democrats?

Yes he did. And vice versa.

[merrily]

110. The DNC would not allow him to run for the Dem nomination unless he is a Democrat.

Just as Webb became a Democrat to run for Senator and Chafee became a Democrat to run for President, Sanders became a Democrat to run for President.

This OP of mine explains it. http://www.democraticunderground.com/128018753

[senz]

124. Yes, I know about Bernie's decision to run as a Democrat

and have written about it several times here.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my comment or not because your reply made no sense.

[merrily]

111. Bernie a Democrat. Please see Reply 110, including the OP I liinked in 110.

[passiveporcupine]

57. he's a democratic socialist,

Which is even better than a democrat.

[Old Crow]

66. +1. The Democratic Socialists OUGHT to be one of America's main political parties.

If they were, we'd be a lot less screwed up as a nation right now.

Who knows? If Bernie gets into the White House, maybe that will happen. I certainly hope so.

[merrily]

112. Working within the Dem Party is one of its current tenets.

IMO, that is smart at this time for many reasons.

[cui bono]

70. Hm... did Hillary lie about sniper fire?

[MADem]

98. Hm...did Bernie lie about who the mother of his middle-aged, full-grown child was?

See how those things just don't pay off?

When people have admitted that they lied, or "misspoke," or "were mistaken," the classy thing to do is take them at their word that they erred, and stop beating the dead horse...else another dead horse gets dragged into the picture for a complementary beating.

[questionseverything]

119. the important part is

Martha Abbott, a founder of the Liberty Union party and longtime political ally, recalls that Sanders was devoted to Levi. He had partial custody of his son, and as a single father he struggled to make ends meet — he wrote freelance articles for publications and was for a time unemployed.

“He was very committed to being a parent,” Abbott said. “And he scraped together the money to take care of him.”

Sanders was very employable at the time, she says, but for a few years “he was trying out different things.”

“He wanted to do more writing, and I think he wanted to be there for Levi and spend time with him, and there were some choices involved,” Abbott said.

///////////////////////////////

devoted to his son,committed to being a parent, good job bernie

[Marty McGraw]

80. Not if his intentions

Are not to just 'Join' but to help in the process of restructuring more back to the heart of what it once was (and I'm not talking way.. back when it was filled with southern racists)

[demwing]

85. Yes, Sanders is a Democrat. By deeds, he is a Democrat.

Is Hillary a Democrat by deed?

[zeemike]

86. Well you don't understand what a hypocrite is then

Because a hypocrite is someone who says one thing and does another. And there are lots of examples of it with people in our party with D's behind their name that do that...and we all know it.
Sanders has consistently DONE the right thing and says the right thing, so he is not one like you say.
So your charge of hypocrisy is wrong.

[merrily]

109. Doesn't stump me. Yes, he is now. Duh. Would you rather he run third party, as did Nader?

[JaneyVee]

4. I think the country is better off now than any time in US history.

Do we still have a long way to go? Sure. But we are forming a more perfect union.

And obviously Republicans represent a clear and present danger.

[Live and Learn]

39. Seriously??? Wow! nt

[Fumesucker]

43. Depends a lot on your point of view

I could pretty easily hide the part of me that most of my fellow Americans would have loathed if they knew, praise Jesus.

Not everyone is so lucky.

[JaneyVee]

50. Give me a better time in US history.

[gregcrawford]

58. Trying to make comparisons...

... between one "time" and another isn't the point, Janey, and the future cannot be part of the discussion for obvious reasons. The problems we face transcend such distinctions as "US history". We know more now, and with that knowledge comes commensurate responsibility, and most of our elected officials, and the billionaires that own them, are not living up to that responsibility; not even close.

We are, in fact, at the most critical time in all of human history, and obscene betrayals like the Trans-Pacific Partnership, for instance, will cost us more than any corporatist or politician has any right to expect us to pay. Those who are willing to let them get away with what are literally crimes against humanity deserve whatever fate befalls them. The rest of us do not.

I'm with WillyT. I've had enough.

[JaneyVee]

77. Right, but there is a legislative process that is used to enforce any policy.

[valerief]

60. Before the Europeans showed up. nt

[shenmue]

65. So, no U.S., then.

[JDPriestly]

82. You don't like microscopes and contact lenses and eyeglasses and books and ball point pens

and cars and x-rays and all the things that Europeans developed?

Isn't it great that we no longer have human sacrifice.

Wouldn't it be even greater if we didn't have capital punishment or war?

[nolabels]

95. I am not a big Euro fan either

Many of the things they refined had their impetus from other lands in which they had conquered and ruled over for centuries

And white bread, i think was one of them

[840high]

44. You are kidding.

[JaneyVee]

49. Name a better time.

And remember, chances are pretty high the time period you come up with was only "great" for straight white males.

[daleanime]

55. So don't answer if you're a straight white male....

and don't worry about any of the problems we have right now?

[JI7]

73. what problems do you have that minorities and women don't have

[daleanime]

75. So that's a yes....

thank you and have a lovely evening.

[JI7]

78. i'm a different poster. you are the one that brought up problems of white males

so i'm asking which problems do you have that minorities and women don't .

[daleanime]

83. Your a different poster? That explains the different name....

I had wondered about that. Since you're helping me out with these sort of things maybe you could do this, show me where I asked about my problems? I don't remember doing so and re-reading the posts doesn't seem to help me out, so if you could do me the solid I would really appreciate it.

[JI7]

87. you implied that the poster said your problems didn't matter

[daleanime]

94. No, I inquired if straight white males were allowed to answer......

would it help you out if I took 'we' out of that post and put in the more explicative 'America'? Not that a straight white male can be part of anything else (just doing my best to help you out, since you seem determined to discount me some how.) Have a lovely evening!

[JI7]

96. see, you keep trying to imply others are dismissing you for being a white male

"since you seem determined to discount me some how"

[daleanime]

116. You're welcome...

glad I could help you out in some way, sorry to have tried to participate.

[mythology]

84. You can answer as a straight white male

but if you say 1950 was better, you have to account for the gains in education for women, African Americans getting the right to vote/Civil Rights Era and how difficult it was to be gay in that era.

As a straight white male myself, I can admit that whatever problems I have in life, I'm still in many ways advantaged just by the fact that I am a straight white male. So somebody going through life with all the same problems I have but are a minority, or a woman or gay, is going to have some extra burden by the fact of that status. That doesn't minimize my problems, it respects that I'm less likely to be murdered, I'm more likely to have graduated college, I'm less likely to be raped, I'm not going to be fired if my employer decides they don't like gay people, I don't have groups of people passing laws to force me to be probed for a medical procedure, etc.

[daleanime]

91. Thank you.....

Personal I think we were doing our best in the summer of 2001. Bu$h hadn't had much of a chance to wreak the country yet, in deed, he spent most of his time on vacation. Since then as a nation we seem to have gone on a killing spree. Killing untold numbers of civilians over-seas, and I seriously mean untold, no one wants to keep track, and wasting the blood of our own solders in order to protect company profits. Our police force has grown increasing military like, go a head, google 'police response' images, looks like a bad science-fiction movie doesn't? I believe the current count of deaths at/in the hands of our police is over 900 for this year, and that's with over 2 months left. And our political system has become more and more fractured. With another government shut-down looming once one of our political parties figures out who to lead it.

But I'm probably the only one who finds this worrying. So have a great night!

[Art_from_Ark]

106. Actually, Bu$h was busy doing all sorts of crazy bad stuff in early 2001

Last edited Mon Oct 12, 2015, 04:05 AM - Edit history (2)

It was all documented here on DU. it seemed like there was one travesty after another, and nothing could stop his juggernaut. But it was cause for celebration when Senator Jim Jeffords switched from Republican to Independent and started caucusing with the Democrats in May 2001, because it seemed like Bush's steamroller was going to finally be brought to a halt. Of course, the euphoria from that was short-lived.

[senz]

104. Locally owned businesses, affordable schools, strong unions, living wages, a real middle class,

public and private pensions, solid infrastructure, informative news media, steady economy, safer streets, cleaner air, pride in working class existence, optimism .....

Don't discount it, JaneyVee; it may not have been perfect, but it wasn't on the brink of disaster, either. Read up on what Ronald Reagan did to this country. Find out what we've lost. After us old people are long gone, you are going to have to figure out what to do about it.

[cui bono]

71. Then you should go back further than the Reagan presidency in history.

Wow. That's a real head shaker.

[CentralMass]

79. Here is a link to an article on where the U.S. stands on the Soclal Progress Index

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2014/04/19/how-u-s-is-lagging-on-quality-of-life/

We rank 16th, and 70th in the sub-category of health and wellness.

[zeemike]

89. If you are in the top 10% there is no doubt that it is true,

They have not had it so good sense the roaring 20s...the rest of the country not so much.

But do you realize we are in a time of danger unknown to the world before?...we are at war around the world and at the same time poking the Russian bear with a stick...and that bear has weapons that could destroy us and the world if we get into it with them or China.

And not to mention the incredible violence we are seeing right here at home...from the cops as well as the angry people.

I can't imagine how we are better off today...unless you are insulated in a bubble of wealth or something.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. It's pretty simple, Willy.

Vote for the candidate you think will make the best President.

Note sure why you feel the need to constantly seek attention.

Nobody is forcing you to vote for a candidate.

[WillyT]

9. So... Voting For Someone Who Stands By Their Convitions And Tells The Truth Is An After Thought ???

My point exactly.

[Buzz cook]

33. There are Tea Bagger who stand by their convictions and tell the truth as they know it.

John Quincey Adams was a man who stood by his convictions and spoke the truth as he saw it, and he was a lousy president.

FDR had few solid convictions and often lied, and he was a great president.

Purity tests are for idiots.

[WillyT]

36. So... We're All In Agreement... We Will Vote For The Clever Liar...

[Renew Deal]

38. Idealism does not equal accomplishment

[Fumesucker]

45. Neither does pragmatism

Both sets of words mean nothing.

[Bobbie Jo]

25. +1

My trash bin runith over with these posts at the rate of 2 - 3 a day.

[zappaman]

28. ...

[sheshe2]

72. Ha~ nt

[MineralMan]

7. If I thought you really wanted to know,

I'd respond with a serious post. I won't be doing that, though.

You can, however, read my explanation of superdelegates in this forum, and I'll be posting other explanatory posts as the campaigns continue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251662465

[WillyT]

22. Ah... The DU Voice Of "Reason"...

Thanks... I think.

[MineralMan]

24. Just a voice on DU, Willy...

I have some experience in this stuff, and am happy to share information.

[sadoldgirl]

8. I can only say this:

To quote EW: The system is rigged.

The establishment with the support of
corporations and the banksters have chosen
who is getting which position in our party.

The M$M agree and push those candidates,
who will not interfere into the limelight.

The super delegates are the result of the
McGovern loss, because the party will not
allow the riffraff to make the final decisions
at the convention ever again. No more truly
democratic conventions, because they may
disturb the pompous event.

I don't know, but that I may have forgotten
something.

[smilingwen]

11. I am not an insider

On the State level in my state( those in the know tell me that) the ones in power decide who can run. I think it is a matter of a top down system. Just like in corporations, the ones get to the top can get power hungry. They put their friends in powerful positions, they think they know what is best for the party. Sort of like union bosses endorsing a candidate whether the members agree or not.

As always, follow the money. That is why we need campaign finance reform. Without that, we do not have a democracy.

So I believe the basic structure has to become more democratic, with checks and balance to prevent cronyism from happening. Like I said, I am not an insider, but that is my opinion from what I have seen. I am not happy about it either, so refuse to give to the party and only give to my choice of candidates. That is all I can do for now, but I am involved in my town's democratic caucus and beginning to get involved on the county level to see if I can help make changes.

[Art_from_Ark]

113. Nice post!

[KoKo]

12. I'll go with the "Agreed Upon Lie."

But, sadly, I'm kind of talked out of expounding on that after 15 years on DU discussing politics.

Maybe we are at a "Tipping Point?" Those of us "Done Playing the Game" are working as hard as we can and figuring others will join us on that "Freedom/Love Train?"

Gosh I miss those ole songs from the late 60's and Early 70's. They were so inspirational. Sometimes they pop into my mind in a hopeful glow of time frozen..with the hope and freshness and optimism.

It's not Dead....It's just is being REVISITED? We CAN DO IT! 's

---------


Love Train [Original 12" Version] - The O'Jays (1972)

"Love Train" was a hit single by The O'Jays, written by Kenny Gamble and Leon Huff. Released in 1972, it reached number one on both the R&B Singles chart and the Hot 100, in February and March 1973 respectively, and was certified gold by the RIAA.

It was The O'Jays' first and only number-one record on the U.S. pop chart. The song's lyrics of unity mention a number of countries, including England, Russia, China, Egypt and Israel, as well as the continent of Africa. Besides its release as a single, "Love Train" was the last song on The O'Jays' album "Back Stabbers". This was a breakthrough album for the group, reaching the top 10 of the Billboard Pop Albums chart and selling over 500,000 copies within a year of release. It has gained the reputation as a landmark album of early 1970s soul and has been cited by critics as "the pinnacle of Philly soul".

[valerief]

64. Damn, I had to get up and dance to that song! Haven't heard it in eons. Thanks! nt

[Skidmore]

13. Have you ever heard of participating in your local

Democratic Party organization? That's where platforms are formulated and candidates gain support. Participation is a prerequiste for the system to work as intended. What level of participation have you engaged in?

[WillyT]

16. Oh... I Live In Sacramento.... I've Been To Many Dem Conventions...

There are a lot of people there to support the Dem Platform...

There are also many there who are looking for a career in politics...

The two do not necessarily have anything to do with one another.,

[MineralMan]

27. When you say you have been to conventions,

do you mean as a delegate? If so, you should know how it all works. If not, then you might not have that information. That's why I post non-partisan posts about the process. There's also lots of information on the process on the Internet.

I'm confused now about what you're actually asking, though.

[WillyT]

30. No... Never As A Delegate... Just As A Fly On The Wall...

And it was amazing what the hired hands were willing to admit.

[Bluenorthwest]

56. I remember posts from you about how your Dad was on State Commissions in CA and a media

figure, you used to stress ideas of comity in politics, even toward Republicans. I remember your stories of scampering with Ron Jr while your highly connected father and 'Momma T' tipped cups with Ron and Nancy.

"My old man, a Marine Bomber (B-25) pilot in WWII, was before and after that (plus Korea) a journalist. He wrote for a Chicago paper as a police reporter, then for the San Diego Union, the Copley News Service, Cox... and eventually was part of the California Highway Commission which built our state's freeway system. He knew, at least in the cosmos of California, all sorts of politicians, lobbyists, and movers and shakers. Hell, he'd hold cocktail parties, and I as a young tyke would spend my time stealing the onions out of the martinis of state senators and assemblymen.

Hell, when Reagan was running for re-election for governor of California, he invited the journalists covering the capitol, and their families, to the mansion for a huge BBQ complete with a cowboy on a horse doing rope tricks and such. Me and Skipper, now known as Ron Reagan, were the terrors of the dunk tank that day. And everybody, young old Republican or Democrat had a great time. My dad would not allow me to wear my Jesse Unruh button to the party, but he did get a kick out of the attempt.

My point is, from what I saw in the late sixties and into the seventies, from my youngish viewpoint, was that these guys, and they were almost always guys, seemed to actually get along no matter their party. They may have vociferously disagreed, defended their positions, their donors and their constituents, but they always seemed to like and respect each other at the end of the day.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/?az=archives&j=1874&page=1

I don't get how you can affect this persona when you grew up around more political and media power people than most folks will meet in a lifetime.

[bettyellen]

92. Hell, that's one faux- folksy and informative post, LOL.

[JI7]

99. it certainly does explain a lot

this nostaligia about the good ole days and negative view of today and towards those who are gaining in influence today who had almost no chance of doing so in those good ole days .

[bettyellen]

101. Hell, since BBQing with Bushes has been such an issue here....

you'd THINK someone would fess up they did it too. Hell, that's hilarious!

[Starry Messenger]

114. That *is* fascinating, isn't it?

O.O

[bettyellen]

120. The OP missed a whole lot of opportunities to chime in "Me too" when BBQing /w Bush pics were posted

LOL. Hell, you think they'd remember something notable like that.

[randome]

122. Um, he evolved??

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[onecaliberal]

40. Democratic Central Committees aren't any different.

Those in power decide who gets to run for elected spots. I know this first hand, in my county anyway.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. It evolved into what it is today

DLC

[grasswire]

15. you may be missing something, Willy.

I don't think you can assume that just because some people here on DU advocate voting for lying establishment politicians means that they really, truly believe that those lying establishment politicians are superior to politicians who might have demonstrated truth, fidelity, transparency, and so on.

Some citizens will sell their country's future (and even the future of the planet) for money or some other personal gain, or even for a perceived gain that will never realize.

And I believe there are some of those on DU. Either it's a cynical con meant to stir the pot and distract from the 1 percent's theft of everything.....or......well. That's what it is. TPTB are jerking the chains, and some people will aid TPTB for money.

[WillyT]

19. I Don't Give One Crap Why A DUer Votes The Way They Do... I Care About How The...

Everyday voter votes against their own interests because of the lies they've been told.

And I want the liars to be exposed. On EITHER side.

[Yavin4]

17. You don't vote to make the country better. You vote to keep it from getting worse.

Going from Clinton to Bush II made the country much much worse. Going from Bush II to Obama stop things from going to hell.

[WillyT]

23. And Therein Lies The Rub... Who Has There Better Band-Aide...

[Yavin4]

118. Depends on your perspective

If you're poor in New Orleans in 2005, would you rather have Gore/Lieberman running the country or Bush/Cheaney running the country?

If you're a woman in the U.S., would you rather have another Clarence Thomas on the SCOTUS taking away your personal choice?

If you're a serviceman in the military, would you rather have a neo-con president sending you into another war in the Middle East or a president that keeps you out of war?

Voting for president is not about creating an unrealistic world of single-payer healthcare and free college education. No one elected as president can deliver that to you. No one.

[BernieFan57]

18. It only makes the country better for the people at the top (all parties).

I'm afraid that people at the top, income and power wise, lose perspective.

I believe that it is the rare person who maintains true compassion for workers from the confines of a Gulf Stream business jet or fundraiser in the Hamptons.

I think Senator Ted Kennedy was one such man, I don't think we have anyone in the party today who fits that description.

From what I read, we are to support the leading candidate out of fear, or despair: Fear that a Republican might otherwise win and/or despair that only an insider can get inside and change things.

They can't end Super PACs, for example, without taking money FROM Super PACs.

I guess I'm stupid because I think we can.

[ucrdem]

20. Sometime you gotta get out to get in, meaning,

it really hits you how much the US has changed when you're traveling. Start with airport security, which went from insanely to moderately annoying, then the US-Mexico border, where the average crossing time has gone from 3 hours to 15 minutes, then to the general perception of the US in Europe, which is hugely positive. I first noticed in 2010 when Hillary was SoS and her smiling picture was hanging in every US embassy alongside Barack's. Say what you like about her tenure as SoS, she changed the perception of the US for the better, ditto Barack. And compared to where we were in 2008, life in the US is better -- way, way, way better.

[sadoldgirl]

31. Sorry, I have a lot of friends

in Europe as well as family. None of them show even
a bit of respect for the US. They had hope when Obama
got elected, but that has long ago evaporated -unless
of course you talk only to the conservatives there.

[ucrdem]

48. I've met a few anti-Obama ex-pats but that's about it. nt

[hifiguy]

21. Willy, the O'Jays have the answer

[KoKo]

35. Amazing Two "O'Jay's" Video posts in same thread........

Mind Meme?

Generational?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.

“Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.” ― Thomas Paine

We insist on electing "leaders" rather than representatives.

[JI7]

29. i assume this is about Clinton but whoever it's about if you don't want to vote for HEr don't vote

for her.

[LuvLoogie]

32. Face it T

It's the political zombie apocalypse. We are The Voting Dead.

[KoKo]

37. Zombie Apocalypse......"Zombie Fads Peak When People Are Unhappy"

Zombie Fads Peak When People Are Unhappy

COLUMBIA, S.C. -- Zombies seem to be everywhere these days.

In the popular TV series "The Walking Dead," humans struggle to escape from a pack of zombies hungry for flesh. Prank alerts have warned of a zombie apocalypse on radio stations in a handful of states. And across the country, zombie wannabes in tattered clothes occasionally fill local parks, gurgling moans of the undead.

Are these just unhealthy obsessions with death and decay? To Clemson University professor Sarah Lauro, the phenomenon isn't harmful or a random fad, but part of a historical trend that mirrors a level of cultural dissatisfaction and economic upheaval.

Lauro, who teaches English at Clemson, studied zombies while working on her doctoral degree at the University of California at Davis. Lauro said she keeps track of zombie movies, television shows and video games, but her research focuses primarily on the concept of the "zombie walk," a mass gathering of people who, dressed in the clothes and makeup of the undead, stagger about and dance.

It's a fascination that, for Lauro, a self-described "chicken," seems unnatural. Disinterested in violent movies or games, Lauro said she finds herself now taking part in both in an attempt to further understand what makes zombie-lovers tick.

"I hate violence," she said. "I can't stand gore. So it's a labor, but I do it."

The zombie mob originated in 2003 in Toronto, Lauro said, and popularity escalated dramatically in the United States in 2005, alongside a rise in dissatisfaction with the war in Iraq.

"It was a way that the population was getting to exercise the fact that they felt like they hadn't been listened to by the Bush administration," Lauro said. "Nobody really wanted that war, and yet we were going to war anyway."

The mid- to late 2000s also saw an uptick in overall zombie popularity, perhaps prompted in part by the release of post-apocalyptic movies including "Dawn of the Dead" and "28 Days Later."

As of last year, Lauro said, zombie walks had been documented in 20 countries. The largest gathering drew more than 4,000 participants at the New Jersey Zombie Walk in Asbury Park, N.J., in October 2010, according to Guinness World Records.

"We are more interested in the zombie at times when as a culture we feel disempowered," Lauro said. "And the facts are there that, when we are experiencing economic crises, the vast population is feeling disempowered. ... Either playing dead themselves ... or watching a show like `Walking Dead' provides a great variety of outlets for people."

But, Lauro pointed out, the display of dissatisfaction isn't always a conscious expression of that feeling of frustration.

"If you were to ask the participants, I don't think that all of them are very cognizant of what they're saying when they put on the zombie makeup and participate," she said. "To me, it's such an obvious allegory. We feel like, in one way, we're dead."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/11/zombie-fads_n_2852032.html?utm_hp_ref=zombie-apocalypse

[LuvLoogie]

42. Gory Allegory!

[haikugal]

68. +1,000...

An obvious allegory, we feel like in one way, we're dead.

It's all a sham as it is so let's quit doing the same useless shit. Voting for the lesser evil is a failure.

[pnwmom]

46. The aim is to beat the other side. Not lose in a noble cause.

Because whatever you think about most Dems, the Rethugs are a thousand times worse.

[oasis]

105. That is exactly it. So much wisdom in so few words.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

47. They MAIN lie is the ONLY alternative to rampant Capitalism is Soviet Style Communism.

[applegrove]

52. As Bill Maher said or Real Time this week: "you wouldn't want a President who wasn't calculating

at all, would you?"

[gregcrawford]

54. TELL it, Willy! YES!

[leftofcool]

59. Here's a tip: To vote or not to vote, that is your answer.

[floriduck]

61. Just follow the money.

Everyone who supports or participates in giving power to establishment people, hope to get a piece of the action in even some small way. It's trickle-down hopes that have taken over this once great country.

[BainsBane]

62. If you want to know how the US system works, read

Karl Marx, Capital.

No one forces you to vote. If you feel it so far beneath you, you don't have to do it.
I do find it interesting how "lying" has come to mean anything one disagrees with and has absolutely no relationship to evidence.


In your first version of this thread last night, I posted for the records of the two leading Democratic nominees on truthfulness as assessed by Politifact. That you repeat the same allegations tells me that you chose not to investigate the relative truthfulness of the two candidates. I would therefore suggest you think a little more carefully before throwing around the word lie and hold yourself to the same standard you expect of politicians.

I post it again, in case anyone here happens to be interested in actual evidence on the subject.



Bernie Sanders


True6 (20%)(6)
Mostly True11 (37%)(11)
Half True5 (17%)(5)
Mostly False3 (10%)(3)
False5 (17%)(5)
Pants on Fire0
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-s/



Hillary Clinton

True38 (30%)(38)
Mostly True26 (21%)(26)
Half True25 (20%)(25)
Mostly False21 (17%)(21)
False14 (11%)(14)
Pants on Fire2 (2%)(2)
Hillary Clinton's website
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

[retrowire]

63. I swear to you...

And I couldn't find the thread where I'd seen it, but there is a DUer who literally said, "What is this establishment that you Bernie supporters keep bringing up anyways?"

[shenmue]

67. You didn't avoid jack shit

"Do you still beat your wife?" would have been less of a loaded question.

[DrBulldog]

69. We are where today we are because:

1. We are too lazy or too frustrated to vote.

2. We are too lazy or too frustrated to educate ourselves on the issues and the candidates from multiple good sources.

3. We are too lazy or too frustrated to speak up in a dozen different ways so our government hears us.

Or more concisely, we are too lazy or too frustrated to act like citizens. Thus the electorate has abdicated its basic civic responsibilities and today's government is our just reward.

[Marty McGraw]

90. or you can just as well

say the opposite

1. we are burning the candles at both ends trying to keep afloat and a roof over the head.

2. trying to find reliable & adequate day care that won't run a chasm into your month to month paltry income while you work your fingers to the bone.

3. Attempting to re-educate yourself to qualify for the only lousy positions left that have not been outsourced overseas while also running down one's health due to day after day lack of sleep.

we can go on and on....

All while trying to come up with time worthy reliable sources that can fill one in to what is going on in the world - is really a deleterious luxury that many are conned out of by means of paid mis-information to keep the status quo and the people at the Top to Remain indefinitely.

This all has been thrown our way by design

[Fearless]

74. Money, and it doesn't.

[cantbeserious]

76. We Are Where We Are Today Because We Do Not Have The Courage To Vote Our Convictions

eom

[Enthusiast]

81. Thanks, WillyT! I am done playing the game.

Clear done.

[fadedrose]

88. SNL made DWS

sound and look like a, well, I'd say witch, but since I don't know what a real witch looks like, that would be wrong.

Wasn't flattering that's for sure.

[zeemike]

93. J too vote for the agreed upon lie

But I am as far as you can get from the inner circle of power so what I say is only my instinct.

[nolabels]

97. As to a reply to your question, why do think we are here anyway?

There is an unambiguous yes to your question and we don't even need anybody that has ties to any of it. We just compare notes together and come up with conclusions that sometimes more insightful than the ones who think they can pull a fast one on us.

It is said that mans greatest marvel that puts him above all else in the entire creation is his ability to gossip.

Let's keep on being living proof of that miracle

[uhnope]

100. silly question. GWBush destroyed the "both parties are the same" idea and therefore...

also the voting-makes-no-difference idea.

Come on. Are you saying the country isn't a little better now with Obamacare? Are you saying the country isn't a little better now w/o full scale war going on (which I'm convinced a McCain presidency would have continued). Do any of the positive things that Pres. Obama has done make an impression on you, and can you imagine the USA without them now? So, answer your own question.

[joshcryer]

108. First, go read the constitution.

Then, go read the federalist papers.

Hint: Presidential powers are extremely limiting and the power lies in Congress.

[Squinch]

115. Answer: Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Carly Fiorina, Jeb Bush, etc.

So fight as hard as you can to get your candidate to win the primaries.

But when the primaries are over and a candidate is chosen, shut up and vote for the Democrat and stop asking stupid questions.

[randome]

117. Voting since 1974 and you just realized now that everybody lies?

Guess you never watched House, M.D. when it was on.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[KoKo]

123. !.....