It's official: Hillary won the SECOND debate!

[MannyGoldstein]

I'm declaring her the winner.

Look, I'm as qualified as any pundit. And my declaration is as based on fact as is any of the current reports of Hillary's glorious victory over the Socialist.

So why not?

She clearly dominated the debate!!! Hands-down winner!!!

(Now can I be allowed to join HillaryClintonSupporters.com, please?)

[jeff47]

1. I declare her the winner of the 7th debate!!

She's such a winner, she's winning debates that don't exist!!

[C Moon]

48. :D

[Aerows]

52. And as long as hcs remains phpBB

hanging out there in the wind, we'll still get our lulz .

[Scootaloo]

2. You think that's something?

Just you wait until she sweeps the super-secret seventh debate!

[hrmjustin]

3. No.

[Fumesucker]

6. Indeed, everyone knows pundits are far more qualified than we mere proles

After all, they are Very Serious People who are Highly Paid to perform Serious Analysis.

[hrmjustin]

7. I could care less what the pundits say.

[Joey Joe Joe]

22. Then you don't agree with the pundits' analysis that Clinton is the clear winner?

Color me confused!

[hrmjustin]

29. Oh i agree she is the winner but i didn't need them to tell me that.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

58. Same reason I felt Bernie won.

[frylock]

13. Hmmmn..

hmmmn.

[Logical]

74. You make me like hillary less every day, weird! Nt

[hrmjustin]

77. There is nothing you or your friends here can say that could ever turn me off to Sanders.

You however have crossed the Rubicon with me.

Cheers.

[Logical]

78. Some of your posts are just silly! nt

[hrmjustin]

79. Some of yours are just ridiculous.

[Bobbie Jo]

80. LOL

Now there was a pot/kettle moment.

[MADem]

4. Will this feelthebern.org researcher agree with you?

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3oqax1/no_bernie_didnt_win_the_debate_last_night/

[MannyGoldstein]

17. Idunno

Why don't you ask him or her?

[MADem]

25. We'll have to wait until the next debate to do that, won't we? nt

[MannyGoldstein]

30. Why? nt

[MADem]

31. I don't think a FTB.org reseacher will answer a hypothetical question, do you? nt

[MannyGoldstein]

35. Idunno

Why don't you ask him or her?

[MADem]

36. I think you should, since you're both rooting for the same team, and all, and it's

YOUR hypothesis--not mine!

[MannyGoldstein]

38. You seem to have written a nonsequitor

Or I'm too tired to comprehend.

In any case... 'night.

[Thinkingabout]

5. Why would you even want to join?

[BeanMusical]

57. To meet nice constructive and decent people, of course.

But mostly for the free booze. (I'm Manny's official spokesperson tonight).

[Art_from_Ark]

70. The booze might be free,

but it's 100-proof rotgut.

[BeanMusical]

96. And it's spiked with meth.

That kind of mix would explain a lot of things.

[Thinkingabout]

73. We would like to maintain the nie constructive and decent.

[restorefreedom]

8. lol!! nt

[Major Hogwash]

9. You know what's funny? It's evident that DU is now more reliable than CNN is!

DU mods used to delete nasty comments at the DU forum, but now those nasty comments are just hidden from public view.
DU members can click on them to read what was said, so the author's comment is still there in case anyone is interested.

I would cast my vote in the next CNN poll, but they would just delete the whole damned thing if the end result wasn't what CNN's corporate office wanted.

It really surprised me that CNN deleted their own poll.
They want to try to keep the Democratic campaign going until we Democrats tear the party in to a million pieces.

I don't think the corporate clowns at CNN counted on Bernie being so gracious during the first debate.

[JaneyVee]

11. You're surprised they deleted an online poll?

How long is it supposed to stay up?

[Major Hogwash]

15. The old polls used to be active for 24 hours.

And then they would archive them.

But now, it's just gone.
They got out the big delete key and hit it and just like that, viola, it's gone.

[Dem2]

56. Perhaps the thousands of votes linked from just a few websites

made them realize the poll wasn't all that useful and since they couldn't think of a way to fix it, they deleted it.

[TM99]

71. You have empirical proof of this assertion, right?

Otherwise, it is merely creative speculation based on your own opinions.

[Dem2]

81. Yes

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3onmad/official_rsandersforpresident_democratic_debate_1/cvyttol

[TM99]

82. A single link on Reddit

is hardly empirical proof of your statements.

Try again when you got something more substantive.

[Dem2]

83. There are many more

It was coordinated. It's obvious. DU has been "DUing" online polls for years and then stating the results are meaningless when Freepers outdo us. Let's not pretend that online polls have any meaning. Also, demographics of the typical online voter vs. electorate.

[TM99]

85. So still no proof, only supposition.

That's fine.

I view both online polls AND pundits as being unscientific.

I can, however, view them with a social psychology perspective, and then meaningful speculation is important.

Some online polls can be gamed, some can not. Google is one such example. Focus groups are an entirely different subject, and the results from those last night across the board were far more pro-Sanders than Clinton. It is very relevant, that Sanders is now a higher hit search term on Google. Will that turn into votes? Who knows yet, but it is meaningful. The same is true for social media, which can be meaningless and banal (think silly kitty memes!) but it can also be meaningful and relevant (think Arab Spring!).

[Dem2]

87. I don't disagree - social media buzz is a good thing and Bernie will continue to win that battle.

So will Donald Trump, so let's not lose perspective on the importance of social media 'buzz'.

Will it translate into votes over the wider demographic that actually makes it to the polls in this country? I don't know.

I am actually fascinated to find out as I would be thrilled if this country was indeed ready for somebody like Bernie to be President. Certainly the Republicans have opened that door wide open with their inability to form a coalition of relatively sane special interest groups. We'll see what happens. Also, we should see if the polls change significantly after the debate. I suspect not, but I've been wrong before.

[TM99]

90. I too want to see the polls

however my studies of both statistics and psychology trend my view towards all polls as being very misleading and not always accurate, even the best ones. For example, Silver performed well for a time when he was not actually involved in punditry. Now that he is, he and his team are making mistakes. We have blurred the lines in politics too much between the subjective and the objective.

I tend to look now more at the pendulum swing of the American populace's opinion. It was pretty obvious once I saw Obama's marketing campaign (Hope & Change) in 2008 that he would win after the Bush years even if it was just a well packaged lie. I grew up in a moderate Republican bi-racial household. It was pretty easy after the Reagan/Bush/Bush II years of establishment power to see that a populist movement was developing there. The Tea Party was not surprising - the best of populism with the worst of the bigotry, religious insanity, and Randian egotism.

There is a populist movement growing on the left as well. It is very dissatisfied with the New Dems. It is rejecting neoliberalism economic policies and the leftist version of neo-conservativism in foreign policies. It is striving for a true blending of economic and social justice. And interesting article in a recent newsletter from the Mises Institute said that Sanders and Democratic Socialism are not outliers. This movement is very real, very strong, and growing within the left side of the political spectrum. Their conclusions are not mine, however, I do agree with their observations and assessment.

If Sanders does not take the White House in 2016, I am fairly confident in predicting that progressive Democratic Socialism will continue to rise. The anger and passion are there. 2018 & 2020 will see these candidates winning locally and nationally. I just hope that there is time before a Tea Partier becomes President. At this point I do not see Clinton beating the GOP in 2016.

Just some musings on the subject.

[BeanMusical]

63. The polls at the other sites are still up.

[JaneyVee]

10. What about scholars?

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/scholars-on-the-democratic-debate-hillary-wins-but-bernie-hits-a-nerve/

yes/no?

[MannyGoldstein]

16. I've published more books than those scholars

So I'm at least as qualified.

[Joey Joe Joe]

24. Ooh, what genre? n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Adult entertainment.

Well, it's technically true.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

59. I guess that makes you more qualified....

Most of them don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

[Autumn]

84. You do keep me entertained Manny and I thank you.

Signed, an adoring fan

[rhett o rick]

93. Sexting doesn't count as publishing. Sheeesh!

[JaneyVee]

27. Senator Markey?

[TM99]

72. Do you guys ever read the articles you link to?

There are three 'scholars'.

The first one is an Iowa establishment Democrat who clearly believe Clinton won.

The second one simply stated that Sanders couldn't win the GE (typical meme!) and that money is important to beat the GOP.

The third actually said that Sanders won the social media aspect of the debate and that was more important to her.

[JaneyVee]

86. Of course I read it. Seems like a fair analysis.

That's why I posted it.

[TM99]

88. Then say that instead of

attempting to push an idea that 'scholars' are locked in for Clinton when it really wasn't.

The spin sometimes gets nauseating.

[JaneyVee]

91. Did you read it? Particularly the article headline.

[TM99]

92. Obviously, I summarized it accurately

without the added spin.

[FlatBaroque]

12. her poor rivals

are just competing to lose*

(*actual CNN headline)

[Old Crow]

21. I saw that.

And even though I'm pretty even-handed about this stuff (I like to think so, anyway), that headline struck me as really, really odd. I don't know how it could've passed muster in any editor's eyes as being acceptable in tone.

[Fumesucker]

14. Not only that HRC also won the ZEROTH debate as well

[MannyGoldstein]

18. That must have been held solely for engineers.

(So I watched it, too.)

[Fumesucker]

55. I wonder who Third Way Steven thinks won?

That was a funny bit, BTW, shame it got locked.

[aidbo]

23. eventually, she will jump into the complex plane and win the i-th debate

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Hillary: "I discovered Euler's Formula" nt

[aidbo]

32. 'I have divided by zero!'

[MannyGoldstein]

34. "Without setting a flag!" nt

[aidbo]

37. look at this! people with engineering backgrounds and physics backgrounds feeling the Bern together

[MannyGoldstein]

41. You a physics person? nt

[aidbo]

43. didn't finish the degree, dropped out 3rd year. but I try to keep up w/ the times.

assumed you were in engineering w/ your comment to Fumesucker.

[MannyGoldstein]

51. Yeah, EE degree

Physics was interesting, but scary-hard math.

[aidbo]

53. My physics profs scared me away from EE with all the circuit diagraming.

I'm much more of a theoretical mind-set.

But I am still in awe of Mathematicians.

[frylock]

45. What channel is that on?

[aidbo]

49. THC, The "History" Channel. THC.

[frylock]

50. Ah. I tune in nightly!

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. I'm with you on this! (can I come to that other site too?)

[moondust]

20. Jamie and Lloyd say thanks!

Good work, Tiger! Turn in your review (leaving the usual space to fill in pertinent details later) and take the afternoon off!

Oh...and tell your friends about our incentive program!

[zentrum]

33. Very funny.

[YOHABLO]

39. I just about puked today watching Mark Halperin on MSNBC Morning Shmoe.

He said Hillary was clearly the winner of the debate and gave her an A+ and Bernie a B- I mean go figure. I am so sick of corporate media. And as for Anderson Cooper, what a d..k. (or perhaps little d..k.)

[frylock]

46. But but but it was Mark Halperin..

MARK HALPERIN!

[aidbo]

97. careful, If you say his name three times in a row he appears!

[SusanaMontana41]

40. rofl!

[sabrina 1]

42. Manny, stop grovelling, it's embarrassing! Lol!

Besides, you're NOT SCIENTIFIC like the dozen or so Corporate Talking Heads who are Scientifically Qualified to decide who the winner winner was.

How many of them were there btw? A dozen maybe?? All saying the same thing. So how could ANYONE doubt their Scientific Qualifications, seriously?

[MannyGoldstein]

44. Science is good!

especially the gut-feel kind!

[merrily]

47. Very reluctantly, I must agree with MannyGoldstein. Hillary won the second debate hands down.

(Not third way Manny?)

Fortunately, 2008 Hillary campaign co-chair DWS has ten more debates scheduled. Perhaps Bernie can make a comeback, though I am no longer optimistic.

Of course, this is of no consequence to me as I switched my support from Senator Sanders to Governor Chafee as soon as Sanders got his hair cut close to his head. I am a one issue voter who insists on backing the Democratic primary candidate with the most unusual hairstyle and, clearly, Chafee is leading the field in that respect.

[Dem2]

54. I felt that Hillary won.

But your opinion is yours and just as valid.

Both candidates impressed me in that debate.

I'm glad we have 2 really good candidates, there are significant advantages to having 2 solid candidates competing for our votes.

[jfern]

60. Hillary wins the 10 extra debates she'll get after she's behind in the polls

[zeemike]

61. Don't let it get you down.

It's just TPTB's way of telling us they have decided who will be the nominee...now all that is left for you to do is to take the oath to vote for her when she wins. Or you can vote for the GOPer if you want, makes no difference because they win either way.
All that voting stuff is just a formality.

[marym625]

62. that's nothing

Didn't you know, she won the world series!

[BeanMusical]

65. And two Nobel Prizes: Physics and Literature.

Not the Peace one, though. Which is surprising since her buddy Kissinger did.

[marym625]

66. I know, right!? she was clearly robbed!

I would have voted for her for that. That's in December, right? When we vote for that Nobel thing?

[olddots]

64. hands down winner of the third debate

[joshcryer]

67. I tried joining.

But I guess to be a Hillary Clinton supporter you have to hate Sanders and his supporters or something.

Like, I can't support both but have preference for Sanders?

[ChiciB1]

68. Oh Come On, Humpty-Dumpty Will Be The Leader

here. Let's all get on the wall with HIM!

[cui bono]

69. reccing for your question.

[Logical]

75. Perfect post Manny! The hillary fans wont get it though! Nt

[Adrahil]

76. Wow, that butt must REALLY hurt.

Put on your big boy pants fer crissakes.

Bernie did fine. Sorry (not really) this wasn't the Bernie route that Bernie fans had been predicting for months.

[99Forever]

89. Oh my.

All is lost.

[rhett o rick]

94. I hope someone wrote down a comparison of her stands on issues vs. Sen Sanders.

Where he had specific plans, her's where wishy-washy. Take SS for example, or helping college students. Also the Patriot Act. She tried to defend her actions but it still was a mistake. She admits it needs to be changed now. Something apparently she didn't anticipate when she voted for it.

[lostnfound]

95. Can Bernie win Debates # 2.718281828.. and 3.14159265359..

Because otherwise he's just so rational all the time...

[aidbo]

98. We are all getting mathy up in here!

Personally, I would hope people start teaching about tau (=2pi=6.28...). I think it is a much more intuitive way to look at the circle constant.

[CJCRANE]

99. I always believe the official story

instead of my lying eyes.

[mooseprime]

100. Manny you are THE BEST!!!!

i come to DU for your posts, thank you! this one is just tops.
(but why DO you hate the troops?!)

[Bernblu]

101. This is great news for Hillary!!!

from corporate third way Manny!

[Aerows]

102. Technically speaking

you don't have to be allowed to join, because they have their user information hanging out like toilet paper on the shoe. I've advised them to patch it because I care, and Boo Scout's site needs to be patched, too, but they are too hard headed to listen to anyone.

I am FAR from the only DUer that has noticed this, and I guarantee I'm not the only person on the internet that has noticed it.

Oh well. You can lead a horse to water, etc.