The Republicans and the DLC/Third-Way have royally @#$&ed the 99%

[MannyGoldstein]

Utterly and totally. Millions and millions thrown into poverty and into prisons thanks to abject bull@#$& "reforms", while a tiny few shovel cash into their bank accounts like meth-fueled dung beetles.

What are YOU going to do about it?

Let me guess... you'll switch candidates to back the newly-minted always-was Progressive, because the always-was always-was Progressive's supporters suck because they bring up facts (or they're dumb as a brick, and twice as thick).

It's high time to rid ourselves of the shape-shifters. ENOUGH.

[MineralMan]

1. I'm going to double down on GOTV.

What will you do, Manny?

[MannyGoldstein]

9. Different people do different things

Some people choose to do one thing, while others choose to do a different thing. There are limitless things that people may choose, and each of us has that perogative. Certainly, in my life, I have used that perogative. Because there are many things to be done, and many ways to do these things.

[MineralMan]

18. You asked. I answered.

Then I asked you your own question. You did not answer. That's OK, but the question still stands. What are YOU going to do about it? The floor is yours. I won't ask again, though.

[Autumn]

42. I see what you did there Manny

[MannyGoldstein]

52. Some people do things

As Americans, each of us is able to do what we want. But only what we are able to do, of course. Sometimes we can't do things because of laws. Sometimes due to community standards. The laws of physics also guide our efforts, and while I did mention laws before, those laws are different in that they...

[Autumn]

54. ...

[rhett o rick]

205. Please don't encourage him.

[Autumn]

208. I encourage Manny as often as I can, he always listens to me. His wife says I'm

an angel.

[rhett o rick]

209. Maybe she should be posting here. Just sayin'. nm

[Autumn]

212. Could you imagine the fun that would be?

I think she's the angel. She puts up with him. Seriously though he's one hell of a guy, we like him even with his rare little faults.

[rhett o rick]

215. Ok, maybe I agree, but let's keep it between us. nm

[senz]

219. A man who can make you laugh is almost as good as a man who can

cook. Or give massages.

So it's possible that Mrs. Goldstein is the happiest of women. Just sayin'.

[George II]

67. I think it bears repeating......What are YOU going to do about it?

[merrily]

96. I thought MannyGoldstein was the most clever satirist on DU, but you're the man, George Number II!

Bears repeating!

[senz]

117. Is that what George does? I never could understand what he does.

And I really like Canadians. Generally speaking.

But, hell, Manny and you (and bmus and the fabulous frylock and fumesucker) are way, way beyond me in the humor department.

So on your recommendation, I'll try to appreciate George's special brand of satire from here on out.

So make me laugh, George! Live up to your reputation.

(and where do you get those cutie smilies, merrily?)

[merrily]

125. You have made me smile many a time, senz. And made me think.

&quot and where do you get those cutie smilies, merrily?)"

Years ago, I was really, really into them, so I have a collection. When I came to DU, I tried to be more serious. Now, DU is so ridiculous, so wth?

[jeff47]

170. George isn't Canadian.

Part of his schtick is to put on that Canadian flag avatar, and then act incensed when people call him Canadian.

[senz]

188. I find that hilarious.

DU is an interesting place with lots of information, etc., but I'm beginning to see that the people may be the most interesting aspect.

Academics could go very meta on the whole thing -- it's a treasure trove of sociological, communication, psychological, and political raw material. I've never encountered an internet message system as intricate and history-laden as this. I'm thinking it could be addictive and have long had the sense that cyber realities can be very unhealthy. For all kinds of reasons.

Okay, jeff, I'm just thinking out loud here; don't mean to burden you with this stuff. Anyway, thanks for the heads up on one of the more interesting characters around here.

[George II]

198. I've explained that numerous times to people who feel it necessary to make such....

....gratuitous inferences.

[George II]

197. Another person coming to the false conclusion that I'm "Canadian". Are you FDR?

[senz]

202. No, but I wish I were. I also wish you were Canadian. I think you'd be happier that way.

[George II]

211. I don't need someone like you telling me how I'd be happier.

[senz]

217. Well that is, in all probability, true. However,

if you ever get an offer to, say, buy land in Canada and you can't decide whether to follow up on it, maybe you'll remember some person on DU who thought you'd be happier up there, which might lead you to make a wise decision that end ups up making you happier than you ever thought possible. And then you'll want to thank me. But you won't know how to reach me, so, just in case, you should thank me right now. Just in case.

[senz]

218. Ooo, that was my 2000th comment!

Now I'm 100% worthy to take part on alert trials.

And how ironic, as I just declined to serve on a jury because the comment that was alerted aroused feelings of horror at the sentiment expressed by the commenter combined with sympathy for the commenter's anger at the person (in the news, not on DU) under discussion. I could not resolve the two conflicting feelings and so bowed out. Which was the right thing to do, wouldn't you agree?

[Armstead]

195. People are trying tom do something about it....Ya know those whiners and "bashers" and...

gasp, supporters of Bernie Supporters.

[George II]

196. Are you speaking for MannyGoldstein now? I wonder why still hasn't answered me yet?

[Autumn]

213. Funny how that happens so often. I wonder why people don't answer me but their friends often do.

[Capn Sunshine]

68. some people write about some people doing things

and also how awful the president is. But that's why internet.

[Sheepshank]

115. And there you have it a nutshell

Emulating Bernie perhaps....lots and lots of talk. Lots and lots.

[MyNameGoesHere]

56. Rumsfeldian logic

or Rumsfeldian gibberish. Not sure which.

[BeanMusical]

62. Lol!

[m-lekktor]

73. LOL!nt

[merrily]

81. Oh, man! That's like...so...deep...and like...cool, man. I mean, I've done...like, things, too,

know what I'm sayin'? Wow. You're in like a whole other demention dimension.

[MannyGoldstein]

84. Things can be deep. And things can be cool.

Some things can be both deep and cool, like an ocean, or Jim Morrison. However, these things are deep and cool in different ways. The former has to do with properties that can be measured precisely using agreed-upon standards. The latter exhibited his thingy on stage and was arrested for that. He had violated a law, and laws are the codification of community standards.

Different communities may have different standards...

[merrily]

86. Oh, man. Like...that gave me chills, ya know?

You always take it to like....a whole other level. Divine Comedy!

[passiveporcupine]

223. Jim Morrison really did that?

Oh man, am I oblivious to most of what happens.

[pa28]

130. Many people saw what you did there and some do not.

However most do.

[sabrina 1]

172. You're GOOD Manny!

[ibegurpard]

97. you'll need to

I'll be working hard for the local DEMOCRATIC candidates that will be sunk by a Hillary Clinton nomination.

[sabrina 1]

174. What a fantastic and NOVEL idea!! Here on DU, did you know that NO ONE

ever did that before??

Everyone just sat here in 2004 and 2008 on DU wondering 'what should we do to get Democrats elected'?

DUers talked and talked about it back then but not a single DUer ever said those words: GOTV!

What did you do back then Mineral Man?

[MineralMan]

175. In 2004, I had just moved to Minnesota in time to

register to vote and was moving into a new home. I voted for Kerry, but did not have time to work on campaigns. In 2008, I was a DFL precinct chair and walked my precinct, knocking on every single door, campaigning for Barack Obama and the rest of the Democratic ticket.

I joined DU around election time in 2008.

Thanks for asking.

[cantbeserious]

2. Know Thy Enemy - Oligarchs, Corporations, Banks And Their Media Minions And MIC Henchmen

eom

[JRLeft]

5. Don't forget the PIC.

[Jack Rabbit]

82. !!

[center]

[/center][font siz="1"]In this Wednesday, Jan. 13, 2010 file photo, from left, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Lloyd Blankfein; JPMorgan Chase & Company Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jamie Dimon; Morgan Stanley Chairman John Mack and Bank of America Corporation Chief Executive Officer and President Brian Moynihan, testify on Capitol Hill in Washington before the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission. Many Wall Street firms paid big fines -- in the billions of dollars -- an expense borne by the shareholders, not the people who made bad decisions. Pablo Martinez Monsivais / AP
[/font]

[senz]

121. These guys scare me, Jack Rabbit.

They remind me of lizards, only not as sincere.

I don't know what Hillary sees in them.

[Vincardog]

225. billions of dollars is what she sees.

[Buns_of_Fire]

167. I think Lloyd is wondering if it would be a breach of etiquette

to just reach in with his finger to coax out the olive.

[merrily]

126. cantbeserious, you either belie your chosen name or are true to it and putting us on in

thread after thread. I hope it's the former. Either way, you sure are consistent and persistent.

[cantbeserious]

127. Know Thy Irony

eom

[merrily]

132. You remind me of someone who posted on YAP.

By any chance, did you ever live in New Jersey?

I swear on everything sacred to me, I am asking only out of curiosity.

[cantbeserious]

134. Damn - I Thought The Doppelganger Was A Secret

eom

[merrily]

151. Fair enough.

[sabrina 1]

176. And the Wall St Third Way Think Tank that is trying to take over our Party!

[JRLeft]

3. Perfect name she is shape shifter a grifter, she's fucking Mitt Romney.

[cantbeserious]

4. On Steroids

eom

[JRLeft]

7. She evolves daily.

[freebrew]

171. Is that an adjective...

or an active verb?

Literally? Fucking Rmoney?

Won't Bill be jealous?

WTF is Monica?

[bravenak]

6. What about Reagan? I think he started it. So many people voted for him. What a tragedy.

We should blame all Reagan voters for starting us down this road to hell. If I see a Reagan voter, I'll let them know that the entirety of this crapfest is on their heads!!!!!

[JRLeft]

8. Then HW, Bill, and then Dubya.

[bravenak]

13. Sure. Bill was far better than the rest. But Reagan. That man started the conservative revolution!

To become a Reagan Democrat just bothers me, ya know? Some dislike me as an Obama Democrat, but a REAGAN voter? I would never trust anybody that was fooled by that actor playing a President!

[JRLeft]

17. His deregulation was a major factor in the economic collapse of 07-08.

[bravenak]

20. Whose? Clinton's? I am not convinced.

[JRLeft]

22. Clinton's banking deregulation was a major contributor to the collapse.

[bravenak]

23. Not convinced.

[JRLeft]

24. The banking deregulation under Bill Clinton had nothing to do with the collapse, dude please.

"President Clinton's tenure was characterized by economic prosperity and financial deregulation, which in many ways set the stage for the excesses of recent years. Among his biggest strokes of free-wheeling capitalism was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, a cornerstone of Depression-era regulation. He also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation. In 1995 Clinton loosened housing rules by rewriting the Community Reinvestment Act, which put added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods. It is the subject of heated political and scholarly debate whether any of these moves are to blame for our troubles, but they certainly played a role in creating a permissive lending environment."

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

This was obviously great for the economy.

[bravenak]

25. He did not force speculation.

[JRLeft]

27. He's innocent.

[bravenak]

28. Glad we could agree!

[bravenak]

33. That is very rude.

[JRLeft]

34. That is very true.

[chervilant]

51. At least you won't have to tolerate that one's rudeness in this thread:

On Wed Oct 21, 2015, 05:39 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'm not surprised you support a turd way candidate, so they sell a shit and you'd gobble it
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=711411

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is rude and disgusting

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Oct 21, 2015, 05:51 PM, and the Jury voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Not the only rude and disgusting from this one...in THIS thread.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Wow! Someone is upset! And nasty! And rude!
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I agree with the alerter. It is nothing but a rude, disgusting, personal attack.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's freaking Rude and Disgusting from those who campaign in Bernie's name.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hillary haters are getting desperate as her popularity soars

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[bravenak]

58. Good jury! Thank you!

[jeff47]

35. He just said "You guys can go after this giant pile of money now"

It wast totally unforeseeable that they would actually go after the giant pile of money.

[bravenak]

36. He could not predict 08 nearly a decade before.

[jeff47]

38. Because the greediest people on the planet regularly turn down

opportunities to gather giant piles of money.

And it's utterly and completely unreasonable to look at the history of market speculators that lead to the regulation he repealed. There's no possible way the past bad results might indicate possible bad results in the future.

Just how dumb or naive do you want to make Bill Clinton out to be?

[bravenak]

40. Because it was unprecedented.

[jeff47]

45. Only the scale was unprecedented. The "crimes" had happened before.

Hence the regulation making them actually illegal.

That Clinton repealed. Letting them do the same "crimes" again. This time for more money.

[bravenak]

46. Hindsight is 20/20

[jeff47]

48. So you're arguing Bill Clinton is a moron who couldn't forsee

that repealing a regulation blocking some activities would let people perform those activities.

Seriously? THAT is the bullshit you're trying to spread around here?

[bravenak]

49. Am saying he is not prescient.

[jeff47]

53. Why would that be required? Why couldn't he read the history

of why that regulation was put in place?

Having found that out, why is it such an astounding leap to think the same thing might happen again?

"Hey...it hurt when I smashed my hand with this hammer....but if I do it again it totally won't hurt!!....OW!!!! How could I have possibly known it would hurt?!!"

[merrily]

92. He didn't have to be prescient. Plenty of people at the time predicted exactly what would happen.

[Hiraeth]

116. I saw it coming, just an average person but, when they started rgeting the poorest home owners

home owners with 125% value on their home to remortgage and put money in their pockets to boot.

and then charge them high interest rate to pay it back in thirty years ...

hell --even a blind man should have seen that coming.

Can you spell REAL ESTATE COLLAPSE. DUH.

[kenfrequed]

185. Well then

We should all be supporting Sanders then since he at least had the foresight to see the problems of money and politics.

[merrily]

93. Nope, not unprecedented either. The Crash of 1929 was the very reason Glass Steagall was enacted.

[bravenak]

99. The crash of 29 was not in the living memory of most people.

Many things have happened in history and been repeated. I blame Bush and Reagan much more than Clinton.

[merrily]

101. That has to be the most far fe'tched excuse I've read for a Clinton yet and I've read some ludicrous

ones. Obviously, you can't be serious. Then again, Manny's satiric OP's tend to inspire humorous replies, so I should have picked up on your satire.

[JRLeft]

41. Funny he was literally compensated for it.

[bravenak]

44. Link? How much was he paid? I need to verify.

[merrily]

89. Sorry, but plenty of people did predict it, including people who spoke on the floor of Congress.

[rhett o rick]

207. Speculation was separated from every-day banking in the New Deal to

prevent exactly what happened. Speculation wasn't "forced" but it was deregulated.

HRC's close ties to Wall Street almost guarantee further deregulation. The status quo has brought us 50 million Americans living in poverty and Goldman-Sachs and Wall Street don't care. Vote for a candidate that isn't sponsored by the billionaires that put us where we are.

[sabrina 1]

178. And the He got rid of the Fairness Act leading to the huge Conglomerations.

that keep progressive voices off that air.

Even Reagan or for that matter Bush couldn't have done what Clinton did re getting rid of these laws that protected the people.

[merrily]

83. Whether or not you are convinced doesn't affect anything IRL. It happened and he made it happen.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12778045

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1277&pid=9158

[bravenak]

85. Did not say it did nor happen. Just do not think Bill deserves ALL the BLAME.

[merrily]

87. Those posts speak for themselves, bravenak.

[bravenak]

88. The posts on du? YES. THEY. SURE. DO.

I have seen so many posts. I now have Stockholm Syndrome. Funny posts like that are not on your radar as speaking for themselves in a negative fashion. I wish people would spend more time correcting friends on behaivior rather than checking my posts.

[merrily]

91. The posts of MINE to which I linked you in my prior post.

[bravenak]

95. There are so many posts for you to monitor tho! Like Stockholm Syndrome posts and perhaps

Race nagging posts or posts calling black folks divisive, or the ones saying so many ugly things. I'd think those posts would be the first ones you would want to go and monitor.

[merrily]

103. O.K. nt

[chervilant]

37. You're back!!!

Good to see you contributing again!

[bravenak]

39. I'm here!

[chervilant]

43. You were sorely missed...

not only by me.

[jalan48]

55. I agree about Reagan. He was really the acting President.

His wars in Central America were devastating for that region.

[PatrickforO]

59. Nice to see you back.

Reagan Democrats bother me, too.

[bravenak]

60. They are just terrible!

[marym625]

75. a few things

1. How come regular people aren't allowed to learn and grow? Frankly, I would trust someone that voted for Nixon only to want him impeached; someone that voted for Reagan only to realize the evils there, than someone who knows the past and hasn't learned from it and plans on voting for a third way candidate

2. While Reagan sucked sweaty donkey dick, many people were tired of what they felt was an ineffectual Presidency. It was 35 years ago. Don't get me wrong, I hated him and campaigned for Carter. But I also trust that teenagers grow up and learn. (01300) guess that's really 1a.

3. Bill Clinton most certainly is a great deal of what happened in this country as far as the crash in 2007, the unbelievable amount of wealth that so few have, the incarceration of so very many people and the dwindling of the middle class. I'm pretty sure you know that so I'm not sure why you're arguing differently <-- been a while

[bravenak]

80. I have notice that many people are not allowed to change or evolve.

Take Cha for example, people pull up her quotes from 2008 against Hillary all the time to harass her. She was not a fan.

Nixon was a bit different than Reagan, he was also much smarter and had an oily way of getting folks to do his bidding. People genuinely WANTED to do Reagans.

Nixon was a racist asshole but Reagan was bold and blatant with it. Anybody hearing that rhetoric and feeling charged and fired up is someone who scares the living shit out of me. Reagan ended the mental care system as we knew it causing this problem we have with housing the mentally ill in jails. Not all of the problems came from Clinton's crime bill, Reagan voter were the catalyst to us having no safety net. Unless they have gone through a full metamorphosis, I don't see how that enthusiastic Reagan voter can have changed very much. That selfish mindset is very hard to change.

The third way stuff... It just sounds caustic at this point and usually it is being said by folks who are way more privileged and to the right of me on Racial and Social justice. Not you, really. But most who say it could give two shits about MY place in the system, they are selfishly wirried about theirs. It's one of those thing we address as WPP. If they were teenagers they get a pass. But, then so does Hillary on evolving, and the goldwater girl shit. People are only willing to give their own side a pass on evolving, others are just weathervanes, we EVOLVE! Hypocricy reigns here.


The incareceration. Everytime somebody brings it up my immediate though is Bernie voted for it, Hillary did not have a vote to fuck us over with. So much for being a civil rights guys helping black folks for fifty years. Those two ideas clash. Either he voted for the crime bill that clinton signed or he refused and stood on principle and would not allow himself to dirty his hands with helping vote that bill in. He has more guilt than her on this issue. His vote was his own. So watching the supporters of the candidate who voted for the crime bill bash clinton's wife for the crime bill just lets me know they are usung incarcerated black men for their own political gains and do not care.

I hope that explains it.

[MannyGoldstein]

90. But there's one group that truly can't evolve

People who voted for Reagan, 35 years ago.

[bravenak]

94. Yes. Jerks. Big time jerks who place social justice as less important than economics. I call them

right wing style progressives. So many are far far far far to the right of me on racial equality and social justice. They harrass black folks who don't love their guy, en masse even though they know it looks bad. They think they are right so they continue targeting black people with harassment about their guy and make insane demands and use ridicule as a tactic to get more voters. Those folks cannot change or be helped. Sad.

[MannyGoldstein]

100. Their brains quivering with hatred

Like tiny cranial microcosms of HillaryClintonSupporters.com.

Such anger, sickness, and pathos.

[Hiraeth]

114. This thread is genius. Like the onion, peel it layer by layer. wow. Thanks for this one.

Sublime. Really.

[MannyGoldstein]

118. Thanks, but I deserve no credit

The Swarm makes anyone look good by comparison.

[Hiraeth]

122. the ickyness. I feel an extreme urge to shower. then I believe I will go register some voters.

[merrily]

162. Nonsense. You deserve paeans.

The population of DU, including moi, is what it is for everyone, including moi. But you are the only one who posts brilliantly. And that's why your threads are flypaper, both to those who revel in them and to those who, well, fly to them.

Don't let this go to your head, though.

[hifiguy]

204. He really does.

Manny is an artist in the best tradition of Jonathan Swift. He's a DU treasure.

[bravenak]

124. No. Like folks who harass black folks all over the place. Those other folks are NICE to blacks.

[azurnoir]

227. aha and who 'other folks' would those be ?

[bravenak]

228. The ones who never call me race baiter or stand around while their peers do.

[azurnoir]

229. iz zat right ?

[bravenak]

230. Et tu brute?

[azurnoir]

231. I already said what I had to say about the whole mess

and for DU purposes the term is meltdown irl i'd say it another but in either case it was unfortunate 'cause the sh*t wasn't even true

[bravenak]

232. Have a nice day azurnoir.

[marym625]

98. nope. sorry

To me you just said that certain people are allowed to evolve and others aren't. That a person that voted, for the first time they're eligible, over 30 years ago, isn't allowed to evolve, but a grown woman is allowed to from just 8 years ago when you're talking about evolving about facts unchanged about the same person.

That while Hillary voted for No Child Left Behind, the war in Iraq, with the credit card companies to stop many bankruptcies, said some pretty racist shit just 8 short years ago, that did help push for the criminalization bill and "welfare reform" is a hawk of great proportions, and up until 2 years ago said "marriage is between one man and one woman," gets to evolve and is forgiven.

But Sanders, who did vote for that criminalization bill, isn't allowed to grow or change.

That the DNC, DLC, Third-way that has been a HUGE proponent of corporate socialism and so much of the problem we now have, doesn't matter because some people that are standing against, have money. (since we both know who we're talking about, you know that nothing was said to you about this last shit. And you know I know it was shit and stupid)

As far as forgiveness for the Iraq war vote, forget about No Child Left Behind because she's never once said it was wrong or bad) she may have said it was wrong but she never apologized for it. My grandmother used to say, "even God doesn't forgive without an apology."

[bravenak]

104. Does Sanders renounce his vote for the crime bill?

I don't have this belief in any body but myself to do the right thing. Period. Not a politician not regular folks. But I have opinions and no I do not believe that a rabid Reagan voter of 30 years old changed that much.

But I can fully admit to Clinton's racist bullshit and tell you that this campain has had FAR WORSE RACISM than hers. This shit was way fucking worse than 08 and pointing out her shit just magnifies the shit I have seen with my own damn eyes recently. It has not stopped from the side it has been coming from since Netroots. One thing after another, microaggression on top of microagression, CT's, harassment of black journalists, I watched them harass Goldie Taylor for WEEKS. This shit was ugly and the folks on that side all play the 'not me' game and just blame it on Randos. They would never let Hillary get away with pretending not to notice, they would blame her for her surrogates and supporters, but with the other guy, the things fokks do in his name have NOTHING To do with him. It is disingenuous. False. Not just online. In PERSON, I get stupid comments and threats of withdrawel of 'white support' from 'my causes' if I don't support Bernie. Bernie has not the leadership abilites to run his campaign in a way that is inclusive to all people.


Clinton did not vote for welfare reform though she supported it. We cannot go back. Her one man one woman shit is just as shitty as bernies gun votes in my mind. But she changed. Bernie supposedly never changes according to his supporters. On the hawk tip, I measure it like this. They all are compared to me, yes even Bernie on Israel. I am strongly opposed to his position on arming Israel. Does him with the f-35's and constant funding of Bibi's war maching make him a hawk? Imo, yes. He is far to the right of me on war issues. As she is. Who to trust? The one who funds Bibi and that f-35 just to help his state like a politician does? I trust neither on that. Wash.

So that is simply how I feel. Peopke are embuing Bernie with their own personal ideology and not seeing him for what and who he is. His good points are magnified, his bad minimized. Obama was my guy. I don't have the emotional ties to either candidate, so I don't get the hero worship.

[marym625]

110. you've lost me.

First, the vote for Reagan is over 30 years old. The voter was 18.

Do you not see you're doing exactly what you're mad at others for doing? Yes, I brought up some horrible shit Hillary Clinton either voted for or pushed for and has not ever said she was wrong or sorry. She's a warmonger and a corporatist and there's no excuse. She's also a bigot and a racist and her, "well, then I'll just talk to white people" pretty much proves that hasn't changed. That and the fact that the Black Lives Matter people said, after meeting with Bernie and Hillary separately, "Hillary didn't get it. Bernie did."

Yes,he has renounced his vote on that bill.

I have to go back and read what you wrote again because I don't remember all of it.

[bravenak]

113. Ok.

This is a bad way to discuss this issue I think.

Just saying I see many flaws in both candidates but the one side has given me an emotional response that makes me terrified of them.

[marym625]

131. Exactly how I feel. only it's not Sanders that scares the ever loving shit out of me.

[bravenak]

136. I am now only scared of republicans. Look at them. Trump. I just can't!

[marym625]

137. Trevor Noah just showed a picture of Biff in the bad future

In back to the future, and said "they predicted a Trump Presidency" hahaha! (pictures would help)

[bravenak]

138. Ha ha!! He looks like an old biff!! Eeew.

[marym625]

139. yeah, was pretty funny

Luckily, that was the bad, not real future

[bravenak]

141. It better not be our real future. Trump would sell all of us, one by one.

[marym625]

142. I don't even want to think about what he would do with young, immigrant

Women he thought were hot.

[bravenak]

144. Doesn't he ONLY marry immigrants? Um hmm. Yep.

I would not put it past him AT ALL.

[marym625]

147. EXACTLY!

[marym625]

143. well, the cubs won the world series in the bad future

And they just lost the pennant

[bravenak]

145. Awwww!

Well, at least now we KNOW which future it is. Silver lining!

[marym625]

148. LOL!

Exactly! Poor Cubs. We'll win next year!

Been saying that my entire life

[bravenak]

149. Hey!!! We don't even have pro teams really. We have a minor league thing that folks get

all stressed over. At least y'all have a team!

[marym625]

150. Chicago has great teams and THE BEST fans

Not fair weather fans either. Especially the Cubs fans. Games are almost always sold out.

I just can't and won't start being an A's or Raiders fan. Been a Chicagoan too long. Please, be an adopted Chicago fan! It's fun! Da Bears! Da Bulls! Da Hawks! Da Sox! And of course, Da Cubbies! Though, you're not supposed to be both a Sox and Cubs fan. That shit can get you killed

[bravenak]

153. I was just about to ask if you were switching to the Giants.

Are you? J/k!!!

[marym625]

154. that would just break My heart

I'm homesick.

[bravenak]

156. Are you? I get that way too.

My sister says to apply to ucla for graduate school and I'll be ready to run after I finish.

[marym625]

158. DO IT!

That's a great idea!

Yeah, more so than I ever expected. You've told me you're sometimes homesick. Sorry

I'm going to watch a little tv then go to bed. Was a long day. Sweet dreams. Welcome back!

[bravenak]

159. Goodnight! I should do my lit reading anyways!

[marym625]

128. okay, read it again.

I completely disagree with so much of what you just said. And some of it is just wrong.

Yes, not only has he changed his mind with the gun PLCAA. At their request, he's meeting with (or maybe already met with) a family whose daughter was murdered at the theater in Aurora. The family that sued and lost in part because of the PLCAA.

What you have run into personally is something I can't speak to. I can tell you people here have done the same shit to me about Hillary with the LGBT stuff as you've run into with racism.

I completely disagree with you on both campaigns and both candidates. I don't understand AT ALL how anyone can vote for Hillary Clinton.

I've been to a ton of events for Sanders and held some myself. The experience you have had is not what the people of color, almost all black people, I'm working with and have talked to, have had. I've seen some of what you're talking about here. I've also seen a lot of really nasty shit coming from Hillary supporters.

It is what it is.

[merrily]

160. This is not about facts or events IRL.

[sheshe2]

222. +1000

[sammythecat]

189. But you would trust someone

who, when the consequences for a single decision were as high as they get, was supposedly "fooled" by Bush, Cheney, et al?

[bravenak]

192. Maybe. After Bernie voted for the crime bill, I tried to trust him until the Peter Principle.

His vote was a vote for MASS incarceration of black men, women and children and he helped destroy our community, but he marched with Dr. king, so...

[MannyGoldstein]

236. BTW, do you know who was in charge of lobbying Liberals to pass the Crime Bill?

(You had to know this was coming...)



http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/hillary-clintons-criminal-justice-plan-reverse-bills-policies-117488

But I'm guessing that you don't feel that Hillary destroyed your community?

[bravenak]

237. REAGAN VOTERS DESTROYED MY COMMUNITY!

[MannyGoldstein]

238. Seems like you're changing the subject.

Do you have as much hate for Hillary over that bill as you do for Bernie?

[bravenak]

239. No. She at least admits it was bad. Doesn't yell about fighting for my right for fifty years.

Even Bill said sorry. Some people refuse to see any issue with selves or EVOLVE.

[MannyGoldstein]

240. LOL. Hillary says that she was attacked by Bosnian snipers, named after the conqueror of Everest

and all sorts of nutty stuff. Perhaps we can agree to focus on her actions, not her after-the-fact weathervaning?

Bernie voted against several similar crime bills in the early 1990s, voted for that one (along with Kwesi Mfume, head of the CBC at the time, who,I'm sure you don't hate on like Bernie) to get the Violence Against Women Act.

Let's compare Bernie's and Hillary's statements at the time:

“We need more police, we need more and tougher prison sentences for repeat offenders. The ‘three-strikes-and-you’re-out’ for violent offenders has to be part of the plan. We need more prisons to keep violent offenders for as long as it takes to keep them off the streets.”
- Hillary Clinton, August 10, 1994

[bravenak]

241. And bernies solution to black issues is money.

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/06/this-interview-shows-why-bernie-sanders-is-losing-african-american-support/

[MannyGoldstein]

242. There go leaping goal posts again. nt

[sadoldgirl]

14. Thank you for doing that. I'll join you in that effort.

[bravenak]

16. I still see him as Darth Vader. Or Darth Maul.

[Vattel]

123. I still think he is the anti-Christ. Ronald Wilson Reagan = six letters each = 666.

I hate him and I am teaching my child to hate him. Hopefully the hatred will be passed down for generations. Welcome back, btw.

[artislife]

29. This is true

Welcome back!

[bravenak]

31. Hey! I really hate Reagan. Just hate him. He's dead and I hate him. Sad

[artislife]

57. It's okay. He is worthy of your hatred.

He effed up a country with a smile and a "Golly gee willikers."

[Zany Gnome]

102. Ah, they pull this crap every other year...

[bravenak]

111. Serious. He's always on the ballot!

[MannyGoldstein]

61. Amazingly some people still can't quit his policies!

30 years later!

[merrily]

163. Phlem's posts, down thread, have related links.

[marym625]

63. except it is those who haven't learned that are helping to continue

And grow the problem. I know people who voted for Nixon who were, later, the strongest advocates for his impeachment.

Those who ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

[bravenak]

64. I have met quite a few who are still making excuses for their Reagan votes. Irritating cause I hate

Reagan.

[marym625]

65. unless you're one of the oligarchs,

Everyone does

Btw, !!!!

[bravenak]

66. Hi!!!

[Phlem]

72. Exactly.

[yuiyoshida]

106. OMG!!! YER BACK

-jumps on Bravenak, super yay!

[bravenak]

108. It's youuuuuu!!

[yuiyoshida]

109. hehehe!!

(((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))))))))))

[geardaddy]

181. +1 million

[arcane1]

10. "Thank you sir, may I have another?" gets old after a few decades n/t

[JRLeft]

15. You hate your shit sandwich?

[marym625]

11. couldn't agree more

Why do you bother with that place? She won't win so don't worry

#FeelTheBern
#Bernie2016

[merrily]

105. He must be a glutton for punishment. I heard he...well, never mind.

[marym625]

112. LMAO!

Mistress Marily

[MannyGoldstein]

120. No, that's not funny

Thank Goddess for turtlenecks.

[merrily]

129. You're welcome, but turtlenecks are not a good look for all men.

Last edited Thu Oct 22, 2015, 05:07 AM - Edit history (1)

Not to be too personal, but you could look right smart in, say, a black mesh tank top.

The Victorian Era is over. Showing a little neck in 2015 is fine, ya know.

ETA: One might even say that, for some men, it's mandatory.

For some reason I can't articulate now, I imagined you to be in that category.

Who knows? Your ship might even come in, after all. See what I'm sayin,' man?

[marym625]

133. Bawhaha

Manny's dark skin looks good in those wool Irish knit cardigans

[merrily]

155. I thought he didn't own any turtlenecks?

[marym625]

157. LOL!

I could do this all night!

Did I tell you to hit anyone? ->

I don't think so!

Ok. I have to go to bed. We'll have to play later

Night night, Marily

[merrily]

161. Marily is one and the same person.

[NCTraveler]

12. We have seen people right here...

make truly vile comments to cheers by some. Supporters of all of our candidates have made some pretty foolish political comments. Your glass house was shattered before you wrote the op. Disjointed considering the direction of your initial argument, but you got to where you wanted to go.

[DanTex]

19. Sitting out the GE and letting the GOP take over will fix everything! Go revolution! Yay McCain!

[Ed Suspicious]

179. Super convincing. Keep up the good work, noble

messenger of the third way!

[Hydra]

21. It's a war against the 99%

And we're losing...but at least more people are starting to realize they are considered the enemy by the 1%. That's big in itself.

[merrily]

107. +1

[Broward]

26. The establishment corporate Dems and their apologists are a huge part of the problem.

We must stop pretending we're on the same side. They are our adversaries and should be treated as such.

[FlatBaroque]

30. They did it in the UK,

they did it in Canada. It's just a matter of time.

[Demeter]

50. Time and righteous rage

Nothing happens automatically (except physical law)

[merrily]

152. The US doesn't have the kind of time Canada and the UK had. The Plutocracy has been much

more efficient, rapacious and enabled here.

[SunSeeker]

47. But Bernie says Republicans are not his enemy. You must be mistaken.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-praises-joe-biden-veiled-jab-hillary/story?id=34635275

[retrowire]

69. Lol, they're not the enemy though.

They're coworkers that you HAVE to compromise with.

That's how politics work. I don't think either side should get their way 100%. It's supposed to be a balance isn't it?

Problem is, it's pretty damn unbalanced these days and the Republican party is full of maniacs.

[merrily]

135. I can't tell you how many times those things got posted on this board about Presidents Obama and

Clinton.

[ChiciB1]

210. And One Of The Basic Mantras From Obama Was His Willingness

to always COMPROMISE! Did he never know of the meeting on the DAY of his inauguration by Repukes who CLEARLY stated their agenda??

I've always, always wondered about this.

[BeanMusical]

70. Kick and R

[brooklynite]

71. What am I going to do about it?

I'm going to keep the Republicans for winning, by supporting the Democratic candidate who can.

It's the least I can do.

[BeanMusical]

74. Welcome aboard!

[brooklynite]

78. I've said it before: in 2008, I switched from Clinton to Obama...

...show me hard data about Sanders winning a national election and I'll do it again

(hint: don't tell me that he's going to win 75 million Democratic votes, as one of your associates has...)

[MannyGoldstein]

76. Hillary?

What, in your opinion, were the three toughest political battles that she's won?

[stonecutter357]

169. if you were paying attention you would know.

[Ed Suspicious]

180. Games are fun. (Except this one.)

[Phlem]

77. ...

"He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it."


http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/politics/21seelye-text.html

[Phlem]

79. Feel like I haven't stopped beating the Third-Way red flag

since the midterms. They truly need to be exposed in national media. Front fucking page news!

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263

[Hiraeth]

119. blast from the past ... that link. woah

[JTShroyer]

140. My family and millions of families were lifted out of poverty in the 1990s under the Clintons:

Incomes rose at all levels in the 1990s.

[bravenak]

146. My family also.

[merrily]

164. And, by 2008-2010, millions of families were foreclosed on, forced to sell their homes

for less than they owed on them, out of work, or working three jobs, etc. But let's not worry about them. We're O.K. and that's really all that matters--to us.

[Phlem]

183. Crickets.

Proving that they care only for themselves, a perfect match.

your completely spot on Merrily.

[ConservativeDemocrat]

221. I love you guys...

With your absolute spittle-flecked hatred, you're driving people away from your preferred candidate, into the arms of the electable one.

I specifically love how you blame the foreclosure crisis - caused by Bush, therefore caused by the election of Bush, therefore caused by Naderites who did the same thing to Al Gore that you're now trying to do to Hillary Clinton - on anyone but yourselves.

You don't care about actually helping the poor. You'd rather feel sanctimonious.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[passiveporcupine]

224. spittle-flecked hatred

What depths of anger/hatred did you pull that out of?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

234. Ask Phlegm...

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[workinclasszero]

173. Best job I ever had in my life happened

while Bill Clinton was President.

A job with a strong union, true middle class pay and benefits. And its gone for good sadly.

It was destroyed and sent to China under President W.

Taught me a very important life lesson. Fight republicans with everything you got because they will kill you and your loved ones if they can.

I'm never going to waste my vote on a person I know will never win and so invite the republicans in to total control of the government they long to destroy.

[DinahMoeHum]

187. +1

[Art_from_Ark]

233. So you're going to waste your vote on someone who, in your own words,

"has no morals" and who will "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory"?

[merrily]

165. Shape-shifters. THE perfect metaphor. (Seasonal, too.) Thank you, MannyGoldstein.

[Scuba]

166. K&R especially for the Bill Clinton backer getting his ass handed to him.

"He couldn't foresee that greedy fucks would be greedy."

[stonecutter357]

168. you seem concerned

[raouldukelives]

177. Another day in the most reality shareholders can't themselves block. nt

[SoapBox]

182. Shape-Shifter!!! Perfect!

But, but, but...they are a proud Capitalist! Uhhh...Progressive! However if need be, a Moderate Centrist!

Some just say anything to get elected while others are consistent for a lifetime.

Evolution!!!

[FairWinds]

184. What are YOU going to do about it?

The fighting keyboarders will post on DU.

[Zorra]

186. Not all shape shifters are bad.

[bravenak]

191. Are u sure?

I had a shapeshifter tell me I was race nagging once. Attitudes like that have led to an increase of people feeling free to call me race baiter, and these are folks on the LEFT! Isn't that crazy?

I can see that some folks who say they are the far left are just plain rightwingers deep down inside. I'm far to the left on social justice and they are oblivious to their rightwingerhood. Crazy that. I better keep trying to MOVE OUR PROGRESSIVE rightwingers to the left on this issue. It's working to pull Bernie towards the left, I am way to the left of him on social justice and racial equality and pure economic policy, so it is my duty.

[zappaman]

200. Someone used the term "race nagging"? WTF?

No way was that on DU!
You must have been arguing on a RW site, right?

[bravenak]

201. I double checked, logged out, logged back in...

It turned out to be a self described FAR leftist. Sadly they are far far far to the right of me on racial justice. Positively THIRD WAY.

[merrily]

193. LOL!

[Skidmore]

190. Too bad we are still cleaning up

the collective messes set in motion by Reagan and the merry band of Republicans who followed. There are many progressive liberals who have been fighting that fight for decades now and Sanders is only one of them. We've had two Democratic administrations who have had to do the heavy lifting of shoveling out the dung piles left by them. Two of them had Clintons involved in the cleanup.

[blackspade]

194. Sad to see so many DUers over at that website.

It seems to be less a Clinton support site and more for Sanders supporters and DU bashing.
Pretty sad.

This can't be reiterated enough (without the editing....:

"The Republicans and the DLC/Third-Way have royally fucked the 99% utterly and totally. Millions and millions thrown into poverty and into prisons thanks to abject bull@#$& "reforms", while a tiny few shovel cash into their bank accounts like meth-fueled dung beetles."

[d_legendary1]

199. Better they air out their diatribes over there than over here

I'd go nuts if every thread down here was about how stupid (insert candidate here) supporters were for not voting for their candidate. At least here people back up their claims as to why their candidate should be considered rather than engage in name calling and making stuff up (i.e. driving Volvos). If they want to have a circle jerk there then let'em. It would not surprise me if some of the Bernie and O'Malley rumors originated from there.

[hifiguy]

203. That's what feudal lords do.

It is their nature.

And when politicians get bought, they STAY bought.

[ChiciB1]

206. Thanks For Posting This Thread, BUT I Have To Say I'm Amazed

by some comments here about Hillary vs Bernie. While some are VERY WILLING to so easily forgive Hillary regarding her positions and votes, what I DON'T understand is WHY it's so impossible to see that we have been going in the wrong direction for way too long. Obama isn't who I thought he was even though I knew he was to the right of me. BUT sadly I was unaware of just how close he was to Wall Street and it's too hard for me to over look WHY he didn't take on the criminals of the Bush Administration. Looking forward is always good, but to say he's done a GREAT job for minorities just doesn't fly with me. I think he did so much less than I felt he would and felt he SHOULD HAVE!

I'm a white woman, but not only black people but minorities of many stripes have not been fought for in a way I've felt was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!

I understand past votes, Bernie's AND Hillary's, but for me it's not the past votes that concern me about her. It's what I sincerely believe she WON'T do to change the present system we have. You can CALL yourself a Democrat, but for me DLC/THIRD Way is repulsive and that's what she's been and I don't believe that her latest statements trending left will be a reality. Bernie has not changed what he believes in and whether others like it or not, I can respect that he truly wants to make it better for "we the people" and he's going to need a whole LOT of help!

The TPTB now DO NOT want him to be the nominee and I feel in my heart I KNOW the reason why. DON'T UPSET THE CURRENT APPLE CART of the NOW Democratic Party. And a Party that I no longer feel much a part of.

But, he talks about ALL the people getting involved and no words are more powerful to me. This country has itself to blame for a great deal of how we got here, we don't vote!!!

I've had enough too, and I'm willing to try something new and from a person who has some negatives from his past, but NOTHING like the Clintons and so many of our other Democrats! The pros and cons of arguments ARE NOT equal to me, not even close!

There will NEVER be a perfect candidate, but one or two issue voters seem not to be open minded either.

Attacks welcome, I'll read them and maybe reply. I don't have time to play tit for tat with any member here. But I will read the comments.

[rhett o rick]

214. The fact that the Power That Be don't want Sen Sanders for president is a great reason to

support him.

[ChiciB1]

216. This Fact Alone Is The BEST Reason To Get Behind Him!

I have NO DOUBT about a concerted effort from them to "make him go away!" Why are THEY so afraid and UNFAIR?? Our own Democratic Party, not Repukes! Speaks volumes!

[Dont call me Shirley]

220. 1% = Meth fueled dung beetles...

[YoungDemCA]

226. ....

[BeanMusical]

235. Kick and R