For someone supposedly so liberal, Hillary has a strange intolerance for civil disobedience.

[reformist2]

Despite the entire history of social & economic progress in this country, Hillary actually thinks that it was the legislative reforms that mattered more than the protests that occurred prior to them. She has shown precisely zero appreciation for what Edward Snowden did for bringing awareness to the reality of unconstitutional government snooping. One wonders if Hillary would have told John Brown to have "worked within the system"...

[1StrongBlackMan]

1. Really? Just stop. n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

39. Edward Snowden does, does not equal John Brown.

Whatever you think of where John Brown stood depends on where you stand. John Brown knew his actions would result in his death, Snowden not so much...

But this is to be expected...It's the emanations of a mindset that compares a current presidential candidate to Dr. King, Malcolm, and Muhammad Ali.

[bravenak]

2. "TAZE them!" Shouted some from the Seattle crowd.

https://news.vice.com/article/third-times-the-charm-for-bernie-sanders-and-black-lives-matter

[artislife]

13. My city gathered to hear a medicare event

I cross the street when I see gray hairs strolling with their walkers and their oversized sunglasses





They're seriously fierce.

[bravenak]

15. So, how much do you know about the white supremacy in that city?

The darker the skin the more likely a child is to be arrested at school. Check the stats for that city. Check the murder by cops. Check the poverty rates. Check to see what the outcomes were on investigations of the police department. Then look at that crowd and ask yourself how much they cared about what I mention vs. how much they cared about that event. Taze them? Why did that crowd not notice the plight of their fellow citizens. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? They are progressives!!!! Why did they not notice? Why? Why? Why? Should they politely wait for a turn with folks who never notice their plight if they are polite? Why should they wait? Why? Why? Why? Does waiting politely save our lives? Does it? Does it? Well?
http://www.seattleglobalist.com/2015/03/02/race-in-seattle-progressive-mystique-integration/34402

[SwampG8r]

19. You assume they were progressives

It was as repeatedly said an event about SS and medicare and as such would draw.a.crowd from all political walks.
To lay the reaction of the crowd on progressives or Sanders is wrong.

[bravenak]

20. The CITY assumes it is progressive. I do not think so.

[artislife]

21. Yeah, this is a white privileged city

It is like SF, filled with very monied white people, a few others and the homeless.

662,400 in Seattle.

Odd, I was just going to link to that very site. It wasn't included in your initial post.
This is when the city could no longer pretend that the police weren't anything but here to protect and to serve
http://www.copblock.org/1451/police-officer-murders-half-deaf-hobbling-native-american-man/

They have this article on what the police has become in the last 5 years..not saying that they didn't kill and single out minorities before but now they have the military gear.
http://www.seattleglobalist.com/2014/08/20/seattle-police-militarization-ferguson-shootings/28591


The greater Seattle area is shitty. It does arrest more children the darker they are, the poverty rates is sky high...if we still have anyone who doesn't work for Google or Amazon living in the city limits.

A group of people at Westlake shouted Taze them. Why didn't they notice the plight of their fellow citizens? Because they are just like most of us. They don't care that Somali's have a difficult time sending money home because the government is worried that they are sending money to "terror cells". They don't care if veterans are forced out their homes because outside money is coming in to build luxury condos. SAFE held protests in front of Bank of America for months..http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today/2014/08/disabled-veteran-evicted-from-west-seattle-home-again/
They don't care if kids aren't getting lunches at school or that bus fares rise and rise. They put tolls on roads from the cheaper areas to live into the areas where the jobs are. People are pretty myopic to what is important to them. They came to hear about Medicare. That was their topic, their issue. And two women got up on stage and they didn't get to hear what they came for. The crowd behaved like children. Spoilt children.

So as a city, we protested oil in the sound, in the artic. We do protest against ICE, for Peace, for Civil Justice, for housing. We also have a million wave at football players when they win the superbowl. It is a pile of individual, community myopic interests.

That night, in that same city, people cheered when Simone Symonds came onto a stage and talked about Black Lives Matters. Yeah, she was already hired and on board then. I saw her.

You know me, You know me.

I challenge you or anyone on this site to go back to the day(s) after Westlake and see what I posted. How I tried to get the angry mob Bernie supporters to shut the eff up and listen to BLM, to see what was the real issue that was being discussed. I stand by my posts and OP that I wrote.

Seattle isn't a little Eden. It is filled with lots of assholes. It just is slightly better than a lot of cities I can live near. Oh, I don't live in Seattle. No, I got pushed out of Belltown when it was converting from small brick apartments with artists and grunge musicians to large glass Condominiums with the "Urban life just steps away from your front door" tm . I live in a converted basement apartment on the edge of King county. And I am fucking lucky. Last year I lived in a room in a house with a 2 gallon hot water heater and no insulation for the great price of $400 plus half the utilities.

[bravenak]

22. I know what you said. I was calling you out for saying you are nice to old ladies like this was a

tone discussion. Being in crisis mean you don't have to wait until people notice you. You scream.

[artislife]

23. I said I crossed the street

Turning the idea of crossing the street when seeing young Black males on it's head.


Or at least that is what I was trying to do...

[bravenak]

24. Can you put in parentheses next time so I don't get all cray cray?

Just kidding. Not yr responsibility. Sorry.

[artislife]

25. Whew.

Sometimes, it helps if I read my posts out loud first.



And do spell check.

[bravenak]

26. Me too!

I have issues with punctuation. Bad commas can go terribly wrong.

[artislife]

27. yup.

?w=450

[Armstead]

44. I used to live in Seattle in the 70's and early 80's

I loved the place, partially because it was affordable, and was smart but humble, and people of all races and classes mingled, or at least tolerated each otehr a lot more, I lived in some great places for not much money.

Went back earlier this year, and I could sense a lot of difference. The basic intangible qualities I loved about it are still there -- but it seems to have gone in the wrong direction and become an amped up version of the divisions occurring throughout America.

Fremont, which used to be shabby and eccentric is like jeeze. Ballard, where the greyed haired Scandanavians used to live is now Yuppie heaven. The CD is starting to show signs of gentrification. Capitol Hill -- fergedabout it.

[eridani]

31. Exactly like the white supremacy in every other American city n/t

[bravenak]

48. Exactly!!! Those woman were RIGHT!nt

[leftofcool]

3. You really need to not go there.

[reformist2]

5. Where? A radical abolitionist? I'm pretty sure I know what Hillary would have said to him.

[leftofcool]

8. No, you really don't. Stop digging your own hole.

[JoePhilly]

4. Sounds like you do not know the definition of "civil disobedience".

Did Hillary kicking the butts of the GOP idiots upset you in some way?

[jberryhill]

6. Civil disobedience is a tactic, not a political program

Do you think people who hold sit-ins and block access to abortion clinics are "liberals"?

Is Kim Davis a "liberal"? Cliven Bundy?

[SidDithers]

7. Keep trying...

Sid

[reformist2]

9. You bet I will. Hillary should definitely *not* be the nominee, imo.

[Cheese Sandwich]

10. Hillary never participated in civil disobedience

Not her thing. Too busy busting unions at walmart. She's on the wrong side.

John Brown can't be called civil disobedience. Snowden neither really. I'm not going to nitpick on details tho because got the main point Hillary is an establishment type all the way, not a rebel. It's time for a rebel now.

[dsc]

11. neither of them engaged in Civil disobedience

Brown killed people, that isn't civil disobedience. Snowden fled and didn't accept the punishment for his crime, that also isn't civil disobedience. Regardless of the merits of both causes, they aren't civil disobedience.

[oasis]

12. Civil rights icon, Rep. John Lewis made Hillary his choice for president.

Contact his office and tell him why he should reconsider.

[artislife]

14. John Lewis is a great man

I am sad he endorsed Hillary but I know he appreciates Bernie, too.




I think he would rally around Sanders when he get the nomination.

[oasis]

18. Rep. Lewis, you and I all appreciate and admire Bernie.

The Hon. John Lewis accepts Hillary's "liberal" creds regardless of her views on the OP's pet issue.

[eridani]

32. What he accepts is the decision of the DNC that Clinton should be the nominee n/t

[oasis]

35. Are you implying Rep. Lewis lacked the courage to make the decision for

himself?

This is the same John Lewis who put his life on the line during the civil rights movement. He faced fierce, baton wielding, racist cops and police dogs.

Most DU members know his history and admire his contribution to the struggle for human dignity.

[SidDithers]

42. Lewis must be suffering from Stockholm Syndrome...nt

Sid

[eridani]

61. I'm saying that his decision was likely based on the "inevitability' meme n/t

[CheshireDog]

16. Attacking a policy is fine...

Trying to invent what Hillary might say to a historical figure and thinking it will change someone's mind is bizarre and kind of desperate.

Can't we stop attacking the person and focus solely on viewpoints?

[reformist2]

41. I'm not "attacking" her - Hillary is instinctively a "law & order" person - she dislikes disobedienc

[Bluenorthwest]

45. But none of that is a bit of anything but characterizations based on your opinion, characterizing

others is a right wing tactic that has often been used to smear good people so I am against the tactic itself. You know why? Because anyone can do that to anybody, at anytime based on nothing but typing. I've seen it done by the right wing to too many people.

[Gman]

17. Protests are more important than legislative reform??

Put the pipe down and step back.

[reformist2]

37. Yes. I also recognize that you don't put the cart before the horse.

[Chitown Kev]

28. You can even go back to Hillary's time at Wellesley and see it

Hillary believes that the system works OR that you can operate within the existing system to effect change.

She's always been like that; that's why I was neither surprised or offended about her LBJ/MLK comments in 2008...it's who she is.

Obama, on the other hand, can operate both inside and outside the system and be effective.

Sanders once believed solely in the idea of outside pressure but is actually very close to Hillary now as far as his views on whether the system can work...he sees some court decisions and some legislative agendas as making it more difficult to operte within the system but he still believes more in the system than on the effectiveness of outside pressure.

It doesn't take a rocket science to see this. Of those three, ONLY Obama will actually tell you to hold his feet to the fire.

[JDPriestly]

30. Sanders also tells us to hold his feet to the fire.

Of the three, Hillary is the most arrogant and least willing to listen to criticism.

[Chitown Kev]

49. Sanders' arrogance has not been as visible

over the years...but its' there.

You may also want to ask those protestors (that included Jim Hightower) about how Bernie treated them when he supported the Sierra Blanca nuclear facility.

Sanders' arrogance has simply not been as visible but he's just as high-handed.

[JDPriestly]

51. Sanders has fully explained his views on nuclear energy and on

the Sierra Blanca nuclear site.

He does not like nuclear energy because we have no good way to store the nuclear waste. The geography in Vermont was terrible for storing nuclear waste. The geography around Sierra Blanca was less likely to result in the waste reaching the groundwater.

But Bernie does not like nuclear power because of the waste problem.

I agree with Bernie.

We do need to use some nuclear materials for medical purposes. But we need to make a much bigger effort to find a way to take care of the waste without just storing it somewhere.

[Chitown Kev]

57. I know his opinions

I was talking about the way that he treated those that disagreed with him.

Nonetheless, spirits were high on Thursday morning, August 20, as the West Texans, along with about twenty Vermonters, trudged up and down the lush green hills on their way to a Springfield rally, where Bernie was scheduled to speak. They'd driven two thousand miles and walked nearly a hundred, and they'd had a wonderful time, meeting Vermonters, talking with them about the Sierra Blanca dump, and changing quite a few minds. Gary Oliver explained some of the group dynamics this way: "There'd been all this tension on the walk, because it's been planned since February, and we just got invited two months ago. But the issues [nuclear power and nuclear weapons] are two warts on the same hog."

Before the rally Sanders invited the three West Texans to meet with him privately, and the Texans eagerly agreed. The meeting was no longer than Sanders' attention span - when it comes to Sierra Blanca. "He didn't listen," Curry said. "He had his mind made up." Afterward, Bernie was giving his pro forma campaign speech, never mentioning nuclear power or nuclear waste. Sierra Blanca activist Bill Addington, who'd arrived just that morning to join the march, along with his neighbor María Méndez, had had enough, and he yelled from the crowd, "What about my home, Bernie? What about Sierra Blanca?"

Several others joined in. "What about Sierra Blanca, Bernie?"

Sanders left the stage, which surprised no one in the small Texas delegation. Earlier, he had told them, "My position is unchanged, and you're not gonna like it." When they asked if he would visit the site in Sierra Blanca, he said, "Absolutely not. I'm gonna be running for re-election in the state of Vermont."

A few people took Bill Addington to task for being so rude. Then all the marchers took the stage, to sing a unique version of "Down by the Riverside." One of the new verses was, "I'm gonna lay down my nuclear waste, down by the riverside." The West Texas marchers sang along.

Asked how he felt about the rally, Hal Flanders summed it up: "I'm disgusted."

[JDPriestly]

29. K&R.

Compared to Bernie's natural liberalism, she has a conservative personality.

If she were a Republican, she would be sitting on the committee doing the acerbic questioning.

It's not about ideology. It's about her approach to problem solving.

Her categorical condemnation of Edward Snowden lacked the slightest subtlety. It was black or white, not thought for why.

And regardless of the silliness and meanness of the repeated Benghazi hearings, something was going on in Benghazi that drew two ambassadors to risk their lives in a substandard facility in a dangerous part of the world.

It appears based on research by Seymour Hersh and the obvious history in Syria regarding ISIS, the Kurds and Turkey that what was going on in Benghazi is something that no one wants to talk about in public and that an important character in the story, Petraeus, was missing from the investigative hearings.

Hillary could have changed the course of the hearings and shed light on the truth if she had been willing to embarrass the Republicans and Petraeus and admit that our government made mistakes.

That is my analysis based on what I have been able to learn from this situation.

Hillary did well in stonewalling the Republicans and the American people. But we deserve to know what is really going on with our policy in the Middle East. We seem to be friends with some pretty shady characters there, and there do not seem to be any "good guys."

What is our goal in the Middle East other than to nose into other people's business and get our hands and our reputations dirty?

Hillary is just playing a game with everyone else in D.C. And it is called, "doing what we want while keeping the American people in the dark." That is how mistakes are made.

And if we the people put up with this game of keeping secrets so that no one gets embarrassed and so that the power remains in the control of a small clique of insiders while America pays the bills, then we are the fools.

I think it is time to elect Bernie. He has said he would audit the military. He would allow Snowden to return to the US and ask a court to consider Snowden's service in revealing the excesses of our surveillance system in sentencing him should he be convicted of a crime having to do with his whistle-blowing.

I'm with Bernie on this.

There is something rotten about our policies in the Middle East. Generally I support Obama's foreign policy, but mistakes were made with regard to Syria. I don't know exactly what they were, but we the American people deserve to be told no matter how embarrassing or complex the truth is.

Hillary and the Republicans are hiding the truth on Benghazi. It makes no sense that the two ambassadors met in that place which Hersh says was not even really at the level of a consulate. Why were they there? What was going on with the CIA post there? Exactly how did the CIA respond to the problems at the meeting place of the two ambassadors? Who knew prior to the events that the ambassadors were there or would be there? What did the Turkish ambassador do after leaving the compound?

Were we or the Turkish involved in trafficking weapons or defense equipment or other equipment to the rebels in Syria? If so, what did we know about those specific rebels?

What is our current involvement in Syria?

Before voting for Hillary, everyone needs answers to these questions. Because I do not have confidence in Hillary's foreign policy ability. I think Bernie although less knowledgeable perhaps about specific foreign policy situations since he did not serve in the State Department has a philosophy and the judgment to handle foreign policy far better than Hillary.

Bernie does not take things personally. Hillary does. Right there, that makes of Bernie a better diplomat.

Just offering this as food for thought.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. +1

Well said

[reformist2]

36. You are so right. Hillary does have a "conservative personality"!

I might add that your phrase right there is a potentially viral meme...

[99Forever]

46. Yeah but...

... her hair looks fabulous and she really kicked ass on the single digit IQ Teabagger on a "select committee."

So nanny nanny boo boo!

[Chitown Kev]

50. I think this is right...

she has a conservative personality

I do think that you are wrong about Senator Sanders though, Sanders does have a certain rigidity of thought that's both emblematic of what I associate with Marxists/socialists and a real sense of "knowing-it-all," that's quite a bit of a turnoff and is quite conservative in it's own way whereas Hillary is conservative in the sense of being a technocrat.

[kelliekat44]

33. How do you arrive at your assumptions? I marched in civil rights protests and was spit upon at

sit-ins, and picketed lunch counters in Baltimore...and I still think Snowden should have gone another rout. Does that mean I am intolerant of civil disobedience? (Went to jail but was not booked because jails were too full).

[JaneyVee]

38. Bernie had anti-war protesters arrested at his office...

Told constituents to "shut up" at a town hall, stormed off stages during BLM protests, and had pro-Palestine activists removed from event.

[Fearless]

52. You're lying again.

[JaneyVee]

53. If I prove you wrong right now will you promise to...

Never respond to me again?

[Fearless]

54. Your idea of proof is a joke.

So no.

If you don't like being called on bullshit then don't post it or ignore me.

Otherwise, any time I see you (or anyone) posting lies about someone, I will call them on it.

[JaneyVee]

55. Enjoy, buddy:

http://www.libertyunionparty.org/?page_id=363

[Fearless]

56. This is basically what I'm hearing...

[beam me up scottie]

59. Jesus Christ, will you stop linking to that site? Do you actually have any proof?

[beam me up scottie]

60. Proof that Bernie "had pro-Palestine activists removed from event"? Tia!

[randome]

40. Since the majority of Americans think Snowden should face the music...

...aren't you saying the majority of Americans are 'strange', too?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"There is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in."
Leonard Cohen, Anthem (1992)[/center][/font][hr]

[TheKentuckian]

47. It is far more critical that those behind what he highlighted face some music but many are quick to

look forward or at most call for some bullshit, feel good "Truth and Reconciliation" though we have had so much moral collapse that we can no longer even manage that weak sauce nowadays.

[sabrina 1]

43. Or the Founding Fathers themselves.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. K&R