Is Bernie and his supporters tough enough to face the Republicans and the corporate establishment?

[AZ Progressive]

So far, it doesn't look like it. They can't even around questions of Democratic Socialism and the appearance that he's unelectable. In America, your toughness is tested, this is a rugged country culturally after all. Bernie and his supporters have to face the test and prove everyone wrong.

[Snotcicles]

1. Let me be the first to unrec this thread. nt

[treestar]

2. Yes, stop saying he can't win!

We can't handle hearing this!

And there have been posts hidden where all they did was set forth his votes, let alone contain the slightest mild criticism.

[Autumn]

3. Well since we won't know the outcome of your...

little test for a while yet we don't know if he is unelectable or if Democratic Socialism really is the root of all evil and a deal breaker with the American voters. Bernie and his supporters have the stones to face face the Republicans and the corporate democratic establishment all day long every day. That results of your test will be be done when the 2016 nominee is chosen and that's not today,m which may very well be a sad thing for Hillary and her supporters.

[restorefreedom]

4. the better question is hillary ready for the endless

dissection of all her baggage? poll after poll shows SHE is the one who can't win a ge

unrec.

[AZ Progressive]

11. Republicans have been doing that for the past 20 years. She has nothing.

She is cleared, Bernie isn't.

[restorefreedom]

12. whether or not she has been"cleared"

she certainly has not been cleared when it comes to low info voters, the same ones that might be affected by a Bernie slam. So they are both at risk in the general election except that Bernie's "socialist" ideas have really started to take hold and are gaining popularity. The socialist boogie man is dead. Anybody who falls for that BS would not vote for any Democratic candidate anyway no matter who it was.

and regarding the issue of electability, many people on Du have said that they know conservatives and Republicans who expressed interest in Bernie. There are no Republicans for Hillary, and they would crawl over broken glass during a blizzard to get to the polls to vote against her. She has no crossover appeal at all. She will lose to Trump, and Bernie will beat him handily.

[AZ Progressive]

17. The Democratic Party is a party of minorities and Hillary has their support

Appealing to white liberals is not appealing to the base. Hillary has the support of both married and single women, blacks, and latinos.

[artislife]

37. Not all of us

Single Latina here and working to educate my people

[restorefreedom]

55. i don't disagree

but in a ge, she will need the white working class white guys, and they might like trump. she is having trouble with the "biden" contingent.

[brooklynite]

15. Based on 11 hours of testimony on Benghazi? I'm thinking "yes"

[restorefreedom]

16. can she go toe to toe with them?

i have no doubt. The real issue is going to be can Republicans convince the American public that Hillary is not trustworthy not electable and will change positions on a whim. I believe they can sell that enough that she will not win the general election.

it's not whether not she can stand her ground, is whether the Republicans can sell the American people on all of her negative baggage, and I believe that they will try very hard and succeed in doing that.

[brooklynite]

21. Where as a self-identified socialist will be teflon-coated?

They certainly attack Hillary Clinton. But the are, surprisingly, Republicans who aren't Tea-Party Bible thumpers and don't get all their information from Fox News. Given the choice between Hillary Clinton and, say, Ted Cruz, I think a lost of suburban moderate Republicans (particularly women) will happily vote for her.

[restorefreedom]

56. probably so, and truly if any dem cant beat cruz,

we might as well kiss the country goodbye. then again, if half the country sees fit to nominate such an extremist wing nut, well i don't even want to know how that would bode for congressional races..

cruz gives me the willies...

[Agschmid]

27. This.

[deutsey]

5. Are Bernie and his supporters tough enough?

Last edited Sat Oct 24, 2015, 05:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie has certainly demonstrated time and again his toughness and tenacity and willingness to speak bluntly about things that really matter to people.

Not knowing all of the Senator's supporters, of course, I can't speak for them all. Speaking for myself, I don't ever shy away from advocating for Democratic Socialism as an alternative to our current form of casino capitalism, or explaining what it is, its history in America, etc. I can also say that I'm not seeing the strawmen supporters portrayed here as being among the actual Bernie supporters I know.

Love him or hate him, Standers' message has resonated with a lot of people. Will that translate into electoral victory and, more to this OP's question, an ability to "face the Republicans and corporate establishment"? I don't know. These interests have such a tight stranglehold on the political discourse and system in this country, anything short of the political revolution Sanders talks about will likely not succeed.

Frankly, I don't see enough people willing to help make that happen, unfortunately.

[demwing]

6. As George W Bush asked

"Is our children learning?"

Apparently the answer is "Yes, they ARE!"

Bernie is doing just fine "arounding" questions of Democratic Socialism:

Posted last night on GDP by thesquanderer
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251717274

Dems now view Socialism more favorably than Capitalism
from https://today.yougov.com/news/2015/10/17/debate-recap-most-americans-agree-bernie-about-hil/

Socialism remains less popular than capitalism in the United States: only 25% of adults have a favorable opinion of it, while 48% view capitalism positively. Among Democrats, however, the balance is flipped, with 49% favorable to socialism compared to 37% for capitalism. In May, capitalism and socialism were tied at 43% favorable. What’s more, more Democrats say Sanders’ “democratic socialist” label makes them more likely to support him (20%) than say it would turn them away (6%).

The times they are a'changing...

[restorefreedom]

13. +1 nt

[brooklynite]

22. You know, they let Republicans vote in the General Election...and not all of them are from Vermont.

[Dawgs]

36. You mean the people she considers "the enemy"?

I'll put money on Sanders getting more support from Republicans than Hillary.

[artislife]

39. I had a scary post show up on my wall

A business networker aquaintance liked a page that explained the whole Benghazi affair with Hillary as one of the major architects of the Global government and end times.

The responses of praise under it were spew inducing. They do NOT like hills at all.

It was rantings of unfit minds. I don't think they would vote for Hilary at all.


Nope.

[COLGATE4]

47. Yep. They're going to line up for hours to vote

for a Jewish Socialist from the NorthEast. I can almost visualize the long lines in Alabama, Mississippi, S. Carolina, etc. etc. right now.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

50. LOL, Dubya immediately came to mind. "What a waste it is to lose one's mind"!

[Half-Century Man]

7. He and we are doing exactly that right now.

Bernie Sanders is always on message against corporatized agendas. He goes as far as to call the republicans corporate lackeys. He constantly speaks out against our corporitized political donation structure.
Every single question about Democratic Socialism has been answered repeatedly.
He has constantly been elected and re-elected for decades despite being "unelectable".

As to toughness, he has been doing it as an Independent is what is basically a two party system for thirty plus years.

We are facing the test and we just want everyone else to admit they have gradually drifted too far right. That we are running a country, not a corporation. We are not serving the investor class; there is no stock. We can't fire anyone for perceived incompetence. We can't fire anyone for insubordination.
The most disenfranchised, disease ridden, freezing cold bum living under a bridge is a part of our society; just by being here. And as one of us, that person deserves help if they will take it.

[AZ Progressive]

10. Bernie hasn't faced intense opposition on the national stage. Vermont is a small state and

is not real competition compared to more conservative states.

That thus counts for little.

Why doesn't Bernie have a simple to understand definition of Democratic Socialism that the average american with a low attention span can understand? After all, highly intelligent people are a small fraction of the American population. You have no chance of winning if you only target highly intelligent people. Americans are especially dumb when it comes to politics after all, most don't even understand how the federal government works.

[Half-Century Man]

25. Merely because Corporate/republican interests have kept the American public ignorant

Doesn't mean they are collectively less intelligent that the rest of the world. Democratic Socialism has been repetitively explained and it will take time until the message filters down through years of propaganda. It is especially hard on people brought up through the cold war era. It is especially hard on people who rely on mainstream television.
The largest voting block, the Millennials, have no such handicap. They see what Social Democracy is through unprogrammed perceptions.

Bernie Sanders has been fighting intense corporate backlash since he started running. At the moment it is from the corporate interests within the Democratic Party, and the conservative corporate mass media. He is holding his own. Or rather, we are holding our own.

[artislife]

40. Pfft

Watch a few videos and see how he isn't afraid to stop someone in their tracks.


He is no wilting violet.

[haikugal]

57. No he isn't..and neither are his supporters!

Welcome to the revolution!

[Bluenorthwest]

58. Just maybe Bernie does not think of other people as 'low attention span average' and struggling

to comprehend simple things so he speaks to them like adults engaged in democratic government. The sort of elitist attitude you express is a formula for failure in mass communications.

[AgingAmerican]

8. A string of insults

How old are you?

[moabfan]

9. Unrec. This assumes that getting news only from M$M.

Sorry, the Bern is strong with this one.

[deutsey]

42. It also seems to assume

that co-opting and slightly watering down Republican/corporatist policies and philosophies is the way to go.

The Neo-Liberal Democrats may do a good job of "facing" down the loonies' agenda on the extreme Right in Congress, but they tend to do what I say above when it comes to the corporatist agenda.

[AZ Progressive]

14. Everyone here unrec'ing this can't stand criticism and thus is weak and not tough enough to win

Politics is tough! You have to show that your rugged!

[olddots]

20. last word ?

[deutsey]

43. No, they forgot to add "So nyah!" n/t

[olddots]

19. I wish we had a special ignoe section for the clueless .

Nice flame baiting skippy .

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. A helluva lot tougher than Hillary and triangulation.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

24. No, we're weak, but we do have subject-verb agreement nailed.

[arcane1]

28. .

[demwing]

31. Yes we does!

We can also show our rugged

[deutsey]

44. Is our children learning?

Apparently not.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

60. What with all the food on my family, it's hard for me to expend the effort to see if they's learning

[arcane1]

26. He's been doing it his entire life!

[Broward]

29. Tough enough to stick to his principles and not vote yes

for a war based on trumped up charges.

[PatrickforO]

30. I remember one especially poignant moment in the 2008 Democratic primaries, when

this quote came out from an 'anonymous' Clinton official.

Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and former President Bill Clinton are making very direct arguments to Democratic superdelegates, starkly insisting Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., cannot win a general election against presumptive Republican nominee, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.

Sources with direct knowledge of the conversation between Sen. Clinton and Governer Bill Richardson, D-N.M., prior to the Governor's endorsement of Obama say she told him flatly, "He cannot win, Bill. He cannot win."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/02/hillary-clinton-barack-ob_n_94770.html

So, my question to all of you is, what is different now? Of course Clinton's going to put that out. It's a campaign tactic.

[Ed Suspicious]

32. With the backing of hardened, battle tested Hillary supporters, he sure as hell is.

[Bernblu]

33. Yes, Bernie is tough. Are you tough AZ Progressive?

By your name I see you are a progressive. Don't you want to fight for a real progressive rather than a third-way Democrat like Clinton who will pretend to be progressive but work with the Republicans on the things their Wall Street donors want.

Bernie is tough and what's more he has integrity, authenticity, and a moral center. Even some Republicans respect him and that is why he get 25% of the Republican vote in Vermont. He will fight for progressive ideas, the middle class, working people and even people with no voice in the political system. If progressives like yourself support him we can defeat the Republicans. Alternatively you can back Clinton and fight for the status quo.

[LWolf]

34. Sure. We are.

Can you go back and edit your post so that it makes sense?

[artislife]

35. Ha ha ha ha

Bernie has been standing against the "go along to get along" patsy congress for his entire career. He has been fighting blue dog Dems, probably the slickest, slimiest and shape shifting bunch of people in politics. They don't have the honesty to stand where they stand and declare it.

You stand in line for hours, crowded into an over stuffed place and not bring home an iPhone or some Black Friday purchase.

We are there because we say "Fuck that Shit!"

[MohRokTah]

38. Nope, he's never faced real competition before this primary. eom

[HerbChestnut]

52. Really?

He's run as an Independent his entire life, and yet he's never faced real competition? How about when he defeated the Republican *and* Democratic parties during Burlington's mayoral elections and won by only 10 votes? How about his multiple campaigns against both parties for Congress? Bernie had nothing but next to impossible elections until he finally was elected as Vermont's lone representative. From there on out people like him so much he never had much of a challenge. He even went on to win the Democratic primary as an Independent when he ran for the Senate. The guy knows how to win elections, and he has a great staff around him. Don't count him out yet.

[liberal_at_heart]

41. trashing thread.

[Motown_Johnny]

45. ~370 views and 1 rec. I think that says it pretty well.

Your views on this subject are roughly in the furthest 0.25%, even on a progressive message board.

[jfern]

46. If we're tough enough to face Hillary and her corporate establishment

then we're tough to face the Republicans and their corporate establishment.

The polls show Bernie doing better in the general election than Hillary. It's the primary that has the odds against Bernie.

[mythology]

48. I believe Sanders is

I don't know about his supporters, but I think Sanders can defend his record and history just fine.

I don't hold his supporters against Sanders, but I think a lot of them are not the most effective advocates.

[99Forever]

49. Oh good grief.

This shit again?



It was extra fucking lame the first 50 times it was barfed out here.

[AzDar]

51. I don't know. Is we?

[rogerashton]

53. Yes, we is! eom

[WorseBeforeBetter]

54. There's a whiff of Herbert Hoover in your OP...

plus full-on George Dubya Bush.

Impressive.

[haikugal]

59. Stinky bait....more stinky bait.