2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat kind of jobs will Bernie Sanders create?
Manufacturing jobs? Not sure manufacturers are feeling much higher taxes as an incentive. Entrepreneurs/Start ups? Nah, they usually get their capital injection from Wall Street. Much needed infrastructure? Possibly. These are good paying jobs but they are also temporary jobs. Import/export? Might be hard with limited markets due to lack of free trade deals. Govt jobs? Possibly. These are good paying jobs as well, but might remain a net negative in terms of job gains due to slashing the defense budget which is necessary but may lead to layoffs. Green jobs? Possibly. Good paying jobs as well. This is actually a good case point, being, laid off oil energy sector workers may be able to transition into new jobs in this sector, making it a net neutral to positive gain. But where do other workers transition, like the workers mentioned above? So...where does Bernie's job growth come from? It would be great if he ever actually gets around to releasing some policy proposals so number-crunchers like myself can make informed decisions.
Bonus: Higher wages is also very much needed, but Bernie has also stated people will need to pay higher taxes. Again, it would be great if he could release some concrete policy proposals.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Fracking wells. Big gas guzzling cars. Nuclear power plants. More coal plants.
NOT.
Instead, solar power plants. And other green jobs taking care of America First!
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Last edited Sat Oct 24, 2015, 11:19 PM - Edit history (1)
More defense spending and less welfare for kids.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)It's just paper ideas. She will make sure we stay dependent on oil.
She supports nuclear waste being spread all over the world. Oh, wait, there will be many health care jobs created from that mess.
Bernie has always supported solar and clean energy. Hill's plans are just copies of his. I have been following solar for 30 years + and this is the first year I've heard Hillary talk about solar or any renewables. She's a big oil supporter. And she flies private planes all over as if they didn't help cause global warming!!! Arrrgggghhhh.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Bernie needs to put up or shut up. Hillary has a concrete plan and has voted for and sponsored many green legislation and policy. Bernie does not have a climate plan as of yet.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Bernie doesn't take money from big oil or other big polluters. Hillary does.
You say you are over the cult of personality politics but that ain't factual. You just proved it again by personally attacking Bernie with false accusations while ignoring the Truth about your personal favorite politician who has a cult like following.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Bernie's plan to cut wasteful defense spending: continue the F-35 program.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I would like to see links to your presentation of Bernie's climate change and defense spending programs that support your claim.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Well, the pentagon is going to build the damn thing, so Bernie is smart enough to get them to build it in his state.
That's a far cry, tho, from supporting the bombs being dropped on Libya, isn't it?
As for importing oil into Vermont, CITGO, a Venezuelan oil company, sent thousands of gallons of free oil to the Northeast so people could heat their homes over the winter. Surely you are not complaining about that, are you?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And that his climate plan is to "Import oil from PDVSA"?
neverforget
(9,436 posts)manufacturing of this boondoggle over many Congressional districts/states so as to make it too big to kill.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-02-22/flawed-f-35-fighter-too-big-to-kill-as-lockheed-hooks-45-states
http://www.businessinsider.com/this-map-explains-the-f-35-fiasco-2014-8
moabfan
(48 posts)From his official campaign page:
ISSUES
Climate Change & Environment
The United States must lead the world in tackling climate change, if we are to make certain that this planet is habitable for our children and grandchildren. We must transform our energy system away from polluting fossil fuels, and towards energy efficiency and sustainability. Millions of homes and buildings need to be weatherized, and we need to greatly accelerate technological progress in wind and solar power generation.
Unless we take bold action to address climate change, our children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren are going to look back on this period in history and ask a very simple question: Where were they? Why didn’t the United States of America, the most powerful nation on earth, lead the international community in cutting greenhouse gas emissions and preventing the devastating damage that the scientific community told us would surely come?
KEY ACTIONS
* Introduced the gold standard for climate change legislation with Sen. Barbara Boxer to tax carbon and methane emissions.
* Led the opposition to the Keystone XL pipeline.
* Secured $3.2 billion in the economic stimulus package for grants to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, in a program that has funded upgrades for more than 86,000 buildings and installed more than 9,500 solar energy systems.
From feelthebern.org page:
BERNIE SANDERS ON CLIMATE CHANGE
Bernie Sanders strongly believes climate change is real, catastrophic, and largely caused by human activities. He believes only aggressive immediate action can offset its future impacts. He often refers to it as the “great planetary crisis we now face”. Bernie unabashedly stands behind the findings of the National Climate Assessment and the IPCC’s fifth assessment report.
Climate Record: Bernie has held steadfast to the opinion that climate change rates are a global crisis and must be immediately and vigorously combated.
Combating Climate Skeptics in Washington: Bernie believes our children and their children deserve relentless fighters of policy that ignores or denies climate change.
Climate Record
Bernie is one of the fiercest fighters for recognition of, adaptation to, and mitigation of climate change. Few have the resolve, clarity of understanding, and guts to both stand up against global warming in Washington and play a strong role at local and neighborhood levels.
Does Bernie have experience on physical science committees in the Senate?
Yes. Bernie has served on key Senate committees such as the “Environment and Public Works” and the “Energy and Natural Resources” committees.
Fair enough. But how does Bernie stack up to other senators in terms of work on climate change?
The SuperPAC Climate Hawks Vote, whose mission is to bring attention and praise to those who prioritize and speak on the climate crisis, consistently gives Bernie a terrific scorecard. Importantly, Climate Hawks Vote measures leadership, not just voting records, tabulating actions like bills introduced, speeches given, and so forth. Notably, the organization put Bernie in the top 10 percent of senators in 2011/12, the top senator in 2013/14, and in the top 10 percent in 2015/16. Bernie also has the outspoken support of respected author and environmentalist Bill McKibben.
In 2014, Bernie attended the People’s Climate March in New York City. Watch him speak about how the influence of money in politics negatively impacts the fight to address climate change:
How well does Bernie understand the issues around and science behind climate change?
Bernie regularly demonstrates his ability to understand the science and strongly argue with climate skeptics, and is clearly not just providing talking points for headlines. When speaking about the issue, as seen in the following video from 2014 — just one of many, many instances of Bernie dropping science in Congress about climate change—, he regularly cites scientific findings and uses scientific language:
Combating Climate Skeptics in Washington
Bernie has spent hundreds of hours vigorously debating and combating climate skeptic politicians. He has long been unsettled over some of his colleagues’ responses to overwhelming scientific evidence and approaches to policies combating global warming through greenhouse gas emission reductions. Furthermore, he strongly believes the influence of lobbying is to blame for much of the climate change skepticism in Washington.
How has Bernie addressed the denial of climate change in Congress?
Bernie has repeatedly called climate skeptics out on their rejection of science. For example, during a Senate Environment and Public Works Committee in July 2014, Bernie said: “For the first time to the best of my knowledge, we have a major political party which by and large is rejecting what the majority of the scientific community is saying.”
In another instance, Bernie devastatingly compared climate change denial to tobacco-cancer denial at a marathon all-night U.S. Senate session on climate change in March 2014:
In 2015, through a “sense of congress” amendment on the early Keystone XL pipeline bill, Bernie forced fellow senators to state for the congressional record if they believe “that climate change is real, human-caused, and already creating devastating problems; that there’s a brief window to act before ‘irreparable harm’ results; and that the United States should shift to cleaner energy sources.”
How can Bernie stand up against climate change if so many corporations spend so much money trying to keep the status quo?
It’s no secret that large energy corporations like Koch Industries and ExxonMobil fund scientists who work towards emphasizing the complexity of the knowledge surrounding climate change and its contribution to greenhouse-gas emissions. They also donate a lot of money to politicians.
Bernie refuses to take money from any corporate donors. This means his ability to fight for the people is unrestrained. Bernie is one of only three presidential candidates in the 2016 race (the others being Martin O’Malley and Jill Stein) who took up The Nation’s request to refuse support of greenhouse-gas emitters.
So has Bernie ever directly attacked the big polluters, then?
Bernie has repeatedly sought to hold greenhouse-gas emitters accountable. He co-sponsored the Super Pollutants Act of 2014 to reduce “super pollutants” that speed global warming faster than carbon such as methane, leaked refrigerants, and soot. He co-sponsored the comprehensive “gold standard” climate bill that aimed to reduce GHG emissions by 80 percent by 2050, and was a congressional leader in opposing the Keystone XL pipeline in 2014 and recently applauded president Obama’s veto promise on the measure.
In July 2015, in the context of other 2016 presidential candidates’ environmental policies, Bernie said:
“It is hard for me to understand how one can be concerned about climate change but not vigorously oppose the Keystone pipeline… We must make significant reduction in carbon emissions and break our dependency on fossil fuels. That is why I have helped lead the fight in the Senate against the Keystone pipeline, which would transport some of the dirtiest fossil fuel in the world.”
Bernie further co-sponsored the Climate Protection Act of 2013 that would tax greenhouse-gas emitters directly via a fee on carbon pollution emissions, fund historic investments in energy efficiency and sustainable energy technologies (e.g., wind, solar, geothermal and biomass), and fund $1 billion a year in worker training and transition programs to help move workers into jobs in the clean energy economy. Finally, Bernie sponsored the End Polluter Welfare Act to stop taxpayer-funded giveaways to oil, gas and coal companies while saving taxpayers over $135 billion over ten years.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I see you tried once but failed, maybe you have some actual sources for them?
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Welcome back!! I look forward to debating you again. Soon, I hope!
As for Hill losing.... she did it once, she sure can do it again! Just give it time.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)This is an interesting time. We actually have a chance to have a POTUS who will appoint young, new, and exciting leftists to govern the US in his admin.
If we blow this and allow the same old same old to do the same old,... well, I fear or the future of anyone who is not in the Big Club. Uhhhh, that would be us - not in that club.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I haven't yet been able to read the TPP. I think in terms of free trade, this is an area that America can do better. But there will be no better unless we try. Every FTD needs to be a learning lesson and continue to evolve to higher standards.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Please.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Halliburton, Bechtel, whatever Blackwater/XE is called these days, and don't forget Lockheed Martin, Boeing and the other war-profiteering Merchants of Death. Profits trump peace, as someone once said.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)1. Rebuilding Our Roads
We need a major investment to rebuild our crumbling infrastructure: roads, bridges, water systems, waste water plants, airports, railroads and schools. It has been estimated that the cost of the Bush-Cheney Iraq War, a war we should never have waged, will total $3 trillion by the time the last veteran receives needed care. A $1 trillion investment in infrastructure could create 13 million decent paying jobs and make this country more efficient and productive. We need to invest in infrastructure, not more war.
2. Reversing Climate Change
The United States must lead the world in reversing climate change and make certain that this planet is habitable for our children and grandchildren. We must transform our energy system away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energies. Millions of homes and buildings need to be weatherized, our transportation system needs to be energy efficient and we need to greatly accelerate the progress we are already seeing in wind, solar, geothermal, biomass and other forms of sustainable energy. Transforming our energy system will not only protect the environment, it will create good paying jobs.
3. Creating Jobs
We need to develop new economic models to increase job creation and productivity. Instead of giving huge tax breaks to corporations which ship our jobs to China and other low-wage countries, we need to provide assistance to workers who want to purchase their own businesses by establishing worker-owned cooperatives. Study after study shows that when workers have an ownership stake in the businesses they work for, productivity goes up, absenteeism goes down and employees are much more satisfied with their jobs.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/recent-business/an-economic-agenda-for-america-12-steps-forward
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)plus the lives lost.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Not what I heard.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)would love to read what you are referencing.
hillary wants to stay invested in libya and have a nf zone over syria...not to mention that the iranians are her enemies...sounds like precursor to war
bernie says no nf zone over syria and wants no unilateral wars unless we are attacked.
seems pretty different to me....
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)
OxQQme
(2,550 posts)Just about the cost of a few of F-35's would go a long way to solving K-12 education infrastructure problems.
http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-pratt-whitney-f-35-auditors-performance-very-poor-20150427-story.html
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)She plans to set up a committee to find the money. And who will serve on the committee? Hillary's friends from Wall Street. That is not going to solve any of our problems.
Hillary thinks the fundamental problem in our economy is lack of growth.
Bernie thinks that our economy has grown but that too much of the gains from the growth have gone to the very wealthiest in America, the top fraction of the 1% in terms of income. Because of that, our economy is out of balance.
I agree with Bernie.
Growth happens when the economy is in balance. That is what happens when demand stimulates providing more supply.
Right now, we have a lot of money from the very rich being invested, but ordinary people are not earning enough to save and buy.
Higher wages that Hillary suggests will help, but the higher wages will not be enough to even out the balance in our economy because higher wages in the US will simply be a reason for the managers of companies to seek lower wages in other countries and raise the prices of products.
Bernie's solution of raising certain taxes on the very wealthiest, limiting their ability to take a larger percentage of the income from growth than is good for the country is the right policy.
It isn't about punishing people or taking what is theirs. It is about achieving a healthy balance, a productive balance in our domestic economy. We are way off balance right now although we are doing better than we did under Bush's policies and lack of oversight. If we get our economy back in balance, we will become more productive and we will have growth. No one will be hurt.
And that is another topic, Bernie will appoint people to regulatory agencies who actually audit, regulate and do their jobs. Hillary will appoint the same old, same old corrupt crowd.
Hillary does not seem to understand that to get growth she is going to have to tax the wealthy -- her friends. That is why Hillary's economic proposals will not work.
Remember. You gave me the link to her speech before the New School for Social Research. My criticism is based on her statements in that speech.
http://blogs.newschool.edu/news/2015/07/hillary-clinton-economic-vision/#.Vixd6G7Lrng
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)BTW I love your mocking tone and how high you set the bar for some but not for all.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)
SummerSnow
(12,608 posts)
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Let's start by the jobs he would SAVE by rejecting the TPP.
Then the infrastructure projects he's proposed to get people good paying jobs here at home.
Then his clean energy initiatives.
Ohh and how about breaking up monopolies... Creates THOUSANDS of jobs in your local town.
DO I REALLY NEED TO CONTINUE?
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)no. although i am sure you could 
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)Hell in the 80's when she worked for walmart, she created thousands and thousands of jobs. . . . . . In China.
840high
(17,196 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Jobs in medicine.
Entrepreneurs and start ups will result when we tax the people who are making their money by producing things and creating jobs in other countries and avoiding paying taxes here.
If tax breaks for corporations and rich people caused them to create jobs in the US, we'd have far more jobs than we do today.
If tax breaks for corporations and rich people caused them to build industrial plants in the US, we'd be a fully industrialized nation. Detroit would be roaring as would the old textile mills in the East.
Small town America in the Midwest would be busy with industrial plants.
Reagan took Carter's solar panels off the White House roof.
Bill Clinton did not put them back on. Obama did.
