I am getting a bit tired of constant victim status for Hillary

[grasswire]

Yes, Hillary has been the focus of Republican attacks for decades now. I spent several years of my life defending her and Bill from the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, all over the Internets. She and Bill were victims of the haters on the right. We Democrats defended them and tried to protect them.

But now things seem different. Those who are critical of her policies and practices -- not hateful, but critical -- should be able to voice those criticisms without being called haters. Hillary should be able to defend her policies without anyone implying that other Democrats are shouting at her.

I'm getting a little sick of the people who want to portray her as a protected entity who should be considered differently because of her gender.

Today's women (and I am one of them) think women can fend for themselves, and Hillary has often proved that to be true. It's kind of sickening when she uses gender as a qualification and/or a defense.

That's my opinion.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

57. Hillary can shed crocodile tears but

she won't get the sympathy vote.

[George II]

90. She's never sought the sympathy vote - she guts it out no matter what is thrown in front of her.

[merrily]

147. She lets nothing (words) deter her from fulfilling her personal ambition. Poor thing!

[Bubzer]

188. I don't know about sympathy, but she's certainly playing the gender card.

Personally, I don't think it should matter what kind of meat-sack our candidates live in. I do care about what they've done in the past. Being buddy buddy with corporations and banks is a big negative against Hillary.

?t=1m50s

[lewebley3]

97. Hillary has never claimed victim: She is fighter: She is aware of attacks on her

Everyone knows how hateful the GOP and Fox fake news are

[merrily]

148. Oh, please. She's claimed victim for decades. Vast right wing conspiracy, media, sexism, you name it

[Orrex]

163. She was, of course, correct about that conspiracy

And about the media and the sexism, while we're at it.

She has been attacked for at least a quarter century like no other Democrat during that same span. The only ones who've suffered nearly as much wrath from the press and the GOP are Bill Clinton (though much less so since leaving office) and Barack Obama (and only since taking the Whitehouse).

In this very forum, Sanders' supporters cry "personal attack!" when someone dares to suggest that Sanders' oratory lacks polish. But Clinton has been demonstrably assailed for decades, and on those rara occasions when she mentions it, the charge is that "she's claimed victim for decades."

How many decades of attacks must someone endure before you'll them to talk about those attacks?

[merrily]

169. LMAO. No, she was not. She said that to Lauer about the Lewisky scandal.

Guess what? Bill's involvement with Monica was not a lie made up by the vast right wing conspiracy. It's hysterical that you said she was right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vast_right-wing_conspiracy

The rest of your post is almost as hilarious. Women alive today have endured sexism for decades without ever blaming anything on it publicly. Not multi-millionaire First Lady women, either. Women who desperately need that job or that raise. And, heaven knows, Hillary has done her share of unfair attacking of others, including during the 2008 primary.

[Orrex]

171. It's interesting that you would use the word "hysterical" in discussing Clinton's candidacy

The "vast rightwing conspiracy" was certainly in place, Bill's out-of-control penis notwithstanding. The Whitewater bullshit and allegations that the Clintons conspired to murder Vince Foster, for example, weren't generated by an objective panel of Leftwing investigators.

Regardless, will you vote for her? I read a lot of anti-Clinton bullshit here on DU that's more poisonous than anything running in the press. It's hilarilous and tragic to see Sanders' supporters doing the Republicans' dirty work for them.

[merrily]

173. Is it? I often use it when I find something funny. Have all my life. It's

"interesting" tho not surprising, that you would try to spin something like that into something sinister on my part.



Sorry, she coined the words "vast right wing conspiracy" when she wanted to blame the Lewinsky story on the VRWC. It has a very specific meaning. And it was pure bs.

[Orrex]

174. Hey, you pick your words for a reason.

Last edited Mon Oct 26, 2015, 10:21 AM - Edit history (1)

If you don't like what your words are saying, then pick other words.

So she was wrong about Lewinsky. Big fucking deal, frankly. Clinton was subsequently proven correct that the rightwing machinery was in place to attack, discredit and destroy the Clintons, even if the inspiration fo the term doesn't pass your purity test. How can you pretend to deny this, when it's demonstrable fact in the public record for decades?

And you didn't answer my question: will you vote for her?

[lewebley3]

193. The Vast right wring is just a fact: They have never stopped hunting the Clintons

[billhicks76]

158. She's A Liar And Its Too Obvious

Just because these Benghazi idiots are distracting from real issues. Doesn't change reality...that Hillary is as fake as they come. I hope Bernie crushes her.

[lewebley3]

103. Hillary is just well respected, Something you don't understand:

[Laser102]

167. She's also smarter and tougher than anyone running. I can't wait to see her destroy the repugs.

[lewebley3]

192. Hear! Hear! Laser 102

Last edited Mon Oct 26, 2015, 05:16 PM - Edit history (1)

[juajen]

195. correction, if I may. It's "hear, hear", as in ears, not as in "right here."

Sorry, I am a grammar freak

[lewebley3]

198. Thank-You for the correction

[NCTraveler]

2. I don't recall using names or anything like that...

With any Sanders supporters discussing issues. That includes talking about aspects of the other politicians ideology or character, within reason and reality. Most all Sanders supporters do just that.

I also think it's fair to discuss the path of what could be the first woman President. It isn't claiming victim status. No man has had to go through this shit. Think about it. There is nothing to really compare it to. The best opportunity for a woman to be President and she has to go through things that no man has had to in order to get there. Don't try to shut that very important discussion down. It isn't victim status, it's pride in supporting a woman under constant and unfair attract who takes every single punch and moves forward stronger.

The complete opposite of victim status.

[beam me up scottie]

3. Didn't you accuse another DUer of being sexist for calling Hillary a chicken?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=530253

[NCTraveler]

10. I also called a poster sexist....

For calling a female leader of industry a "shiny object" a sexist. And a poster questioning if POC were suffering from Stockholm a racist.

My reply was thoughtful.

Said person was literally calling Hillary chicken. They were calling the woman who held up to that sham of a committee a chicken. For your point here to have any merit at all, you would have to claim that is serious debate. You seem to have not read my post before your knee jerk reaction. I made no absolute comment as you are saying.

Let me highlight the line you clearly didn't read. "With any Sanders supporters discussing issues." Truly hilarious you think calling Hillary a "chicken" is a discussion of the issues. Not surprised.

[beam me up scottie]

11. So you stand by the chicken/sexist claim.

Fascinating.

[NCTraveler]

13. Take care BMUS.

My reply was thoughtful and I don't plan on detailing this op.

[beam me up scottie]

15. It was, and I don't want to upset you.

I knew you felt strongly about it at the time and wasn't sure if you changed your mind.

Imo calling a woman "chicken" is about as sexist as calling them a war hawk. So it's relevant to the discussion because we're supposed to refrain from using terms that are perfectly acceptable or else we'll be labeled sexists.

I know what sexism is, and calling Hillary a chicken isn't it.


eta: disagree about the shiny thing because I think it refers to a distraction and any performer would be one, but agree on the Stockholm Syndrome reference.

[bravenak]

151. Your reply was well thought out and written.

[L0oniX]

112. Still at it huh.

[L0oniX]

113. +1 ...yes that was me that was accused. One of the most ridiculous accusations I've ever seen on DU.

Last edited Mon Oct 26, 2015, 09:38 AM - Edit history (1)

[beam me up scottie]

114. I still don't understand it.

War hawk/chicken - what's the diff?

[hifiguy]

115. There is none,

unless one is hypnotized by the demons one sees tattooed on the inside of one's eyelids.

[dreamnightwind]

120. Why not chicken hawk, best of both worlds.

[hedda_foil]

142. Reticules? What do ladies' handbags have to do with accusations?

[L0oniX]

182. spell check malfunction

[BainsBane]

127. Whereas you call people antisemitic

for raising the discussion of Bernie's positions on the MIddle East. I learned from you that should Bernie become president, we would not be able to criticize or discuss US policy toward Israel and Palestine for the entirety of his presidency without being anti-semitic.

The fact is sexism exists, and you invoke your own position as a woman when you see an advantage in doing so. Sexism and racism are integral to the structure of American society. They are forms of power far more enduring and pernicious that any temporal political power.

Anti-semitism is indeed a problem in the world, a very serious one, but you have used it to intimidate people into NOT discussing foreign policy. By your definition, a good section of Israelis are themselves antisemitic since they do not support Likud or the pro-Likud policy of the US government.

[beam me up scottie]

128. Really? You got all that out of my op?:

Dog Whistles- an Anti-Semitism Primer (a timely repost)

Funny I don't remember seeing you weigh in BB, were you busy somewhere else that day?

Do you want me to kick it for you so you can explain how wrong I am?

How it's not anti-Semitic to accuse Bernie of having a nest egg in Israel?

Or accuse him of dual citizenship?


Please do go on and explain to me what I think, I just love it when you do that.


And how do I use my womanly charms to my advantage?

[BainsBane]

129. Not your OP

your responses to posts like the OP about someone on his campaign ejecting pro-Palestinian protestors, or bringing up his policies toward Israel. That is what I am talking about.

Given your great concern for anti-semitism, I would have thought I would have seen you denouncing the spate of posts we had about a year ago when Gaza was being bombed. I don't recall seeing you raise concern about one thread after another comparing Israelis to Nazis, or a poster who invoked the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. In fact, I remember being one of a very small handful of posters speaking out about that, as I do against Islamophobia, racism, sexism, anti-Catholicism, etc...

Yet suddenly it's a major concern for you because of Sanders? I have trouble when general principles are not in fact principles but apply to a few great men rather than all people. That is what I find disingenuous.

The other thing I observed about your responses is that you don't do what many do when they are concerned about bigotry: explain how and why something is bigoted (except for your OP, which you didn't write but merely reposted). You used it as a club. Like here, for example. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251650448#post5
Whereas when a Sanders supporter posted it a day earlier, you did not wield the club similarly. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251650448#post5(People will have to look at the first, unedited version to see what you responded to) Exact same story, exact same event, yet your responses were entirely different.

[beam me up scottie]

133. You posted the same link twice.

your responses to posts like the OP about someone on his campaign ejecting pro-Palestinian protestors, or bringing up his policies toward Israel. That is what I am talking about.

You mean the blogger who claimed Bernie didn't allow pro-Palestinian dissent at his rallies?

The one who was later proven to be wrong?

Murtaza Hussain ?@MazMHussain 2h2 hours ago

Bernie Sanders campaign called me and made clear that the ejection of the SJP students was not campaign policy. Update soon.
https://twitter.com/MazMHussain/status/651225964832141312

Bernie Sanders campaign says pro-Palestine activists should never have been kicked out of Boston rally

Excerpt:

But Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver told Boston.com Monday night that the incident ”100 percent” should not have happened and that the staffer never should have asked the students to take the sign down.

Weaver said the individual, whom he described as a “low-level volunteer,” will no longer be working campaign events.

“We’ve communicated to our staff to make sure nothing like this happens again,” he said.

Weaver also said he reached out to the three individuals asked to leave to let them know the incident should not have happened and to apologize on behalf on the campaign.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/10/05/bernie-sanders-campaign-says-pro-palestine-activists-should-never-have-been-kicked-out-boston-rally/QbqJeTYKFi4shsKlgk9fPK/story.html?s_campaign=bcom%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter

...

Given your great concern for anti-semitism, I would have thought I would have seen you denouncing the spate of posts we had about a year ago when Gaza was being bombed. I don't recall seeing you raise concern about one thread after another comparing Israelis to Nazis, or a poster who invoked the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. In fact, I remember being one of a very small handful of posters speaking out about that, as I do against Islamophobia, racism, sexism, anti-Catholicism, etc...

I don't go into I/P, ever. It is like the religion forum only worse, everyone talks past each other and blames the other side.

Once you've done a search of my posts and find something bigoted get back to me, because right now you're reaching for something and falling flat on your face.

...

Yet suddenly it's a major concern for you because of Sanders? I have trouble when general principles are not in fact principles but apply to a few great men rather than all people. That is what I find disingenuous.

Nope, not disingenuous, like I said, I don't go into I/P but I do post in GDP in defense of my candidate who is Jewish.

It actually started when Diane Rehm accused Bernie of having dual citizenship, after seeing how posters reacted to that thread I decided to speak up because not enough posters were aware of the anti-Semitism.

So I did speak up and I also posted the first op about anti-Semitism.

I spoke up and posted another op when hillarysupporters.com posted an article and vicious anti-Semitic remarks were made and repeated here.


So I can't help it if you are selective with your outrage, did you object to the anti-Semitism when it occurred there? Because I didn't see anyone call out the poster who made those claims.

...

The other thing I observed about your responses is that you don't do what many do when they are concerned about bigotry: explain how and why something is bigoted (except for your OP, which you didn't write but merely reposted). You used it as a club. Like here, for example. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251650448#post5
Whereas when a Sanders supporter posted it a day earlier, you did not wield the club similarly. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251650448#post5(People will have to look at the first, unedited version to see what you responded to) Exact same story, exact same event, yet your responses were entirely different.

That's why I posted the op, so that people could be educated if they wanted to know what anti-Semitism is. And to their credit many posted and rec'd that op, while others denied anti-Semitism exists on DU.

It's really too bad that my outspoken criticism of anti-Semitism doesn't sit well with you, nor are my numerous posts and ops about other kinds of religious bigotry good enough but like I said, once you find something bigoted in my posting history, get back to me.

Until then you're just another hypocrite who didn't speak out in those threads when you had the chance.

[bravenak]

137. Yes. I noticed that as well.

[NCTraveler]

162. They have been relentless in their personal attacks...

And unfounded accusations.

[grasswire]

24. I disagree.

Bill Clinton was the victim of attempted emasculation at the hands of the haters. He went through horrible vilification because he (they said) was a horn dog and oversexed and every other kind of awful characterization.

The "path of what could be the first woman president" has NOTHING TO DO WITH HER POLICIES.

Those of us who are gender blind take offense at any notion that a woman should be treated differently (better, or worse) than a man in any situation.

Do you want Hillary to be treated as a man would be treated? Or special?

[NCTraveler]

35. "Those of us who are gender blind"

Are missing what the first woman to have a great chance at the Presidency is having to go through.

Your Bill reference doesn't make sense as to the point you are trying to make. Initially, no one saw Bill as a victim. Just the opposite. It was the crazies on the right who brought that aspect of image into play. It was out of Clintons hands at that point. I don't know why the republicans don't learn this isn't a good strategy with the Clintons, but that part is out of the Clintons control when it gets to that point.

As to the path. Yes, it does matter. You act as if image plays no role. And here we have a woman who has influence around the world, a network second to none, who can take it and dish it like a master in most occasions. That image matters and is worthy of discussion.

[Scootaloo]

44. ...

In general, I do agree with Grasswire's point - Clinton is not a victim, you can't stand on the upper echelon of the upper echelon, see that your only unobtained goal in life is the presidency of the united States... and claim to be a "victim." her supporters, in their usual creepy, exploitative way, end up disparaging and dismissing actual victims of actual victimization. But such is their way.

But... "Gender blind?" Awww, man, really?

[grasswire]

75. despite your dislike of those particular words...

....you really do get the point I am trying to make.

[grasswire]

73. that has nothing to do with h;er qualifications to be POTUS

The fact that she is a strong woman who can take blows is not pertinent. She either is or is not qualified to be POTUS based on her POLICIES and her record, and NOTHING TO DO WITH HER GENDER and whether she rises above discrimination.

[PosterChild]

122. That isn't true....

.... being a leader involves more than articulated polices and previous legislative record. Being strong , persistent and being able to take a beating and then gives back just as good as given are qualities that are qualifying for being a leader, and especially the leader of the free world. Being a woman and having those qualities is especially so.

That's one reason why hillary is characterized as a fighter and why her suporters admire her for being so.

[NCTraveler]

164. If one is posing the question if she is qualified or not....

Their thought process would've so absurd and flawed I wouldn't take the time to give it a proper response. Anyone saying she isn't qualified is simply ignorant. Not sure as to the point of bringing that in.

[ChiciB1]

191. I So Agree With Your Statement "grasswire." I Posted A Lot

of the very same thing just now. Late reply but was a very busy day for me yesterday! I heard NOTHING that changed about what she's campaigning on presently.

[AlbertCat]

38. I also think it's fair to discuss the path of what could be the first woman President.

How about the 1st Jewish president?

[NCTraveler]

41. Without a doubt.

And as long as an op on that topic isn't hijacked, it should work in gd:p. I'm not sure what input I would have on it.

[AlbertCat]

62. Well, Sanders isn't gonna play the Jewish card.

His campaign is about issues. Issues that effect everyone.

[NCTraveler]

63. I don't see why it has...

Gone from can we discuss x, to Sanders doesn't talk about X. He isn't a duer and plenty of his supporters hold discussions on topics Sanders himself doesn't.

[AlbertCat]

65. That's all very interesting but what does it have to do with what I said?

I didn't say we can't discuss it.

[NCTraveler]

67. I said it's fine. Clearly. Nt

[passiveporcupine]

78. I understand your point

Because I felt the same way about Obama. I was not supporting him for President because he was black, but because he was an incredible person and I thought he was exactly what we needed as President (out of all the contenders). The fact that he is black was only a secondary factor that I was very proud of, because seeing a black man become President was historical and it made me proud of our growth on racism. But first and foremost, he qualified as President to me because of his character.

I know that Hillary supporters feel the same way about her, and most of them are proud she is a woman as a "secondary" factor. But...those of us who really don't want to see her win are not against her because she is a woman, but because of her character. And we try to point that out and her supporters accuse us of sexism and nasty attacks. Maybe some here are doing that, but most of us just don't want a person (regardless of gender or race) like her for President. Her gender has nothing to do with it. We want someone progressive for a change. We are tired of leaning ever more rightward economically, as a country. We see what it has done to our middle class and jobs and incomes and our position in the world, and we want change. We don't see that change coming from someone with Hillary's character or history.

Unfortunately, those who were against Obama were not against him because of his character, but mostly because he was black. Although now there are people (dems) who are against him because he wasn't progressive enough. I think they are over-reacting on that. I think he would have been more progressive if he hadn't been dealing with such a recalcitrant GOP. He was never as progressive as we thought he would be, based on his campaigning...that was a disappointment. But he is still a man of good character.

I was dismayed when Hillary used alleged victimization of Bernie's comment to insinuate he was sexist...that is something I expect from a weak woman, like Palin...not from someone who is supposedly strong enough to withstand opposition gracefully. But I am even more dismayed by her supporters continual accusations against Bernie supports of attacking her because she is a woman, and being sexist. If she is so strong, she can defend herself.

[grasswire]

104. yes, your last paragraph exactly.

It is a weak position for all women for Hillary (or her supporters) to claim gender bias against Bernie.

[Scootaloo]

45. That's why Clinton supporters are so absolutely rabid in their hatred of Sanders

They'll be goddamned if they see victory snatched away from them by another non-WASP.

They see 2008 as a fluke, and are scared to death that 2016 might make it a pattern.

[Utopian Leftist]

77. That and the fact that this is Hillary's last chance

to be President. She doesn't have another 8 years to wait, really. And some of her supporters worship her in the way that they turn around and claim that Bernie supporters "worship" Bernie.

It's similar to how RepubliCONs like to accuse the other side of doing what they themselves have done. They seem to think they get "extra points" if they accuse their opponent of something before he or she accuses them.

In Bernie's case, there are going to be a lot of fingers left without anywhere to point, LOL.

[Armstead]

85. That's not fair

I'm a Bernie guy and often critical of Clinton and her supporters. But I really don't think that's a factor in their thinking at all.

[PatrickforO]

86. Your post makes me think of Dylan's 'the times they are a-changing'

America is no longer nearly as white, as WASP as it was just a century ago. Diversity - gender, race, ethnicity, sexual preference - all these groups are, and have been growing much faster than the white population. Time definitely is on the side of the progressives. It is interesting that no Democrat that I've seen, except maybe a couple trolls on here, have even mentioned that Sanders is Jewish. It's kind of a non-issue.

On the other hand, should Bernie win the primary and face whatever Republican clown is chosen, they will make 'Jewish' an issue. They will make 'socialism' an issue (we've seen that already with Trump and to an appalling extent Chris Matthews).

But not us. The fact Clinton is a woman doesn't in the least affect her ability to be POTUS. The problem is that I don't like Clinton's stances on the issues. I think her heart might well be in the right place, but Wall Street, big oil, big pharma and all the other oligarchs and their minions have her by the pocketbook. I don't think she will do a thing to implement single payer healthcare, or fight against means testing for Social Security, or for free tuition at state colleges (though to her credit, she does seem to have a plan on this).

I'm for Bernie because of his stance on the issues I care about. Period. That is why I'm supporting him. I don't think Clinton is a bad person, but I don't think she'll represent the interests of the American people to the degree Bernie will.

[cprise]

102. Actually, they're scared to death the 2014 midterms with more 3rd Way

candidates will replay in 2016.

And I think to some extent it could. Someone with as many negatives as Clinton will have short coattails.

That means more gridlock, and more Clinton-Republican circuses to the max.

[redstateblues]

111. Absolutely rabid?? Victim Mentality again

I don't hate Bernie. I like Bernie. I just think Hillary is more qualified to President. Are you familiar with the concept of projection? The Bernistas are the rabid haters.

[Bohunk68]

159. Stop right there. I've seen it on both sides and it is time we put a stop to the name-calling.

It is about issues. A Rule that Rotten Ronnie used can be used by we Dems. Speak no ill of a fellow Democrat. And, before you jump on that, Bernie does caucus with the Dems and has since he entered the Congress.

[Jim Lane]

116. I don't think "non-WASP" has anything to do with it.

If Sherrod Brown had decided to run, and had risen in the polls the way Sanders has, I think the Clinton supporters would be reacting exactly the same way. They very much want Clinton to win, so naturally they react negatively to anyone who threatens that goal.

[NCTraveler]

166. Clinton supporter here.

Sanders is awesome and a great addition to the party.

[olegramps]

53. I don't mind her positions being criticized, but much of it is absolutely exaggerated.

[rhett o rick]

130. I doubt you will find any progressive that will not agree that HRC is tough. But tough

isn't the only criteria. The fact that she, as a women, has had to go thru trials that men haven't doesn't, in of itself, doesn't make her a better candidate. Margaret Thatcher was tough but she was not good for the 99%.

HRC accepts money from billionaire business-people for her foundation, for her campaign, and even for her personal wealth. Those business-people don't give money without expecting a return on their investment. A big return. HRC says she is for social justice but it's crazy to think that she will do anything that might impinge on the profits of those that have invested so heavily in her.

[kenfrequed]

186. Exactly

I don't need someone who is "tough."

That never works out well anyhow.

I want someone that is free from the chains of Wallstreet and someone who has been correct on things early and often. His opposition to DOMA and his opposition to the Iraq War were both the right and ethical thing to do. It has always bothered me that those of us on the progressive left are correct so often but still handed our hats and pointed toward the door by the "moderates" in the party that are so often wrong.

[rhett o rick]

189. We live in an authoritarian society where tough is more important than empathy.

How often do you hear about the kid that complains about being bullied being punished and the bully let go? How better to push American Exceptionalism than to have tough leaders. In schools, sports, the military and religions, we are taught to obey and follow our authoritarian leaders. Gone are the days where we taught people to think for themselves, to be skeptical, and to not be afraid to question authority.

Eric Fromm nailed it with "The Authoritarian Personality". http://www.scribd.com/doc/89863857/The-Authoritarian-Personality-by-Erich-Fromm-1957

[treestar]

197. Exactly and for anything. Like Obama

who had to do ten times as much to get a tenth of the credit.

[orpupilofnature57]

4. It's an insult to Women, morphing in to a Southerner when in the South, Lost Sleep, cheating hubby,

A diversion from culpability, Historically always being sympathized with, But not always from, Hillary plays the Gender card from day one .

[Fawke Em]

6. Don't forget "flat broke."

[Chemisse]

12. She seems pretty careful to NOT play the gender card

Since that would really damage her candidacy. Obama was equally careful to never play the race card.

People were very sympathetic with her when Bill cheated on her, and this week when she was being grilled for many hours. She didn't seek to have these things happen so that people would feel badly for her.

[HerbChestnut]

18. Unfortunately, she's been bringing up gender lately.

Mischaracterizing Bernie's statements on gun control is just one example.

[orpupilofnature57]

22. No please,, I'm talking about her actions, not their Witch hunt .

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

56. It was her biggest punchine in the debate!

COOPER: Secretary Clinton, how would you not be a third term of President Obama?

CLINTON: Well, I think that's pretty obvious. I think being the first woman president would be quite a change from the presidents we've had up until this point, including President Obama.

[Chemisse]

94. Ahh. The 'first woman president' card.

It is an advantage she has among some women, but it seems crass to bring it up.

[grasswire]

98. yep, that's it nt

[LoveIsNow]

72. Go back and watch the debate.

Maybe make a drinking game out of it... You'll get pretty trashed.

[grasswire]

76. wrong

She HAS been playing the gender card. Very subtly.

[magical thyme]

93. NOT play the gender card? Claimed she's a Washington outsider because she's a WOMAN.

In the debate, answered she'll differ from Obama because she's a WOMAN. Not policies. Not issues. Gender.

Direct mail of her personal favorite brands of housekeeping and cosmetic stuff to shore up the WOMAN's vote.

not play the gender card, my ass.

[Chemisse]

96. Ouch! I wasn't aware of that. n/t

[LoveIsNow]

126. Do you have a link?

I googled "Hillary Clinton housekeeping mailer " and "Hillary Clinton direct mail cosmetics" but couldn't find any reference to it.

I would get a kick out of seeing it.

[senz]

144. It's the Official Hillary Clinton Campaign Thx Box.

Not sure what's in it.

[magical thyme]

185. Hillary Clinton as a lifestyle brand?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/08/hillary-clinton-lifestyle-brand-dont-roll-your-eyes

Supporters are encouraged to hold house parties and volunteer for Clinton, but will also receive a “Thx Box” - a campaign version of BirchBox, the home delivery subscription where women get carefully curated beauty products sent to them once a month. In this case, though, supporters will get household products that Clinton likes and uses (as well as campaign merchandise of course). People who order a Thx Box will even get a bitmoji of a pink pantsuit.

[zappaman]

5. Ok. n/t

[JaneyVee]

7. Her gender is an asset, not a qualification.

[bvf]

23. Why is her gender an asset any more than, say,

Carly Fiorina's or Sarah Palin's?

Hell, do you give Lizzie Borden credit for her gender, too?

Your comment is ridiculous on its face.

[Scootaloo]

29. It's JaneyVee's way of saying they don't actually care about Clinton's policies

[bvf]

37. Sounds about right. n/t

[JaneyVee]

54. Spoke too soon.

[JaneyVee]

52. It's not different, but her vast knowledge is. The fact that she's a woman...

Just makes it that much better. Women, no matter what their socio-economic status, are oppressed and face unique challenges.

[bvf]

66. That is not merely a non-answer to a simple question,

but is also an exercise in pure gobbledygook.

[JaneyVee]

68. Sorry if reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

[bvf]

88. Re-read my initial question to you

and have another look at your response.

You're the last person around here in any position to question anyone's reading comprehension.

[Jester Messiah]

176. Less a gobbledygook than an article of faith, or a sincerely held belief.

Which is different than, say, a statement of fact.

[MohRokTah]

8. .

[cpompilo]

9. Clearly Hillary supporters have a talk-about-the-issues problem in that

most here on DU believe in the policies Bernie advocates and they have argued such here, many for years (e.g., the wars, Wall Street, big pharma, single payer, the 1%, etc., etc.). So, they make shit up about Bernie and his supporters and get all defensive instead.

[orpupilofnature57]

25. A diversion from Issues and Solutions .

[cui bono]

30. Or they just post meaningless immature emptiness like the post above yours.

[Nedsdag]

14. Well, if you think about it,

Hillary plays victim better than anyone else. It's how her political career was launched.

[A Simple Game]

46. The only reason she is still relevant in any way is because she plays the victim so well. n/t

[quickesst]

16. Your OP is laughable at best

Go ahead, pick any Hillary Clinton thread not in the Clinton group and read it. It all comes down to a bunch of people being childishly insulting, with little intelligence behind their comments. If you are not included in that description, then why do you defend those that are? I think a reality check is past due. It not only looks bad for those who do fit that description, but it also reflects poorly on those Bernie supporters who are at least civil in their comments and criticisms.

[charlyvi]

48. Here, Here!

[quickesst]

119. if I read,.....

... something as childishly vile as some of the comments I've read coming from a Clinton supporter about Bernie Sanders, I would be all over their ass. I certainly would not defend it.

[redstateblues]

135. ain't that the truth

It's amazing how mean and petty these BSers can be when they get in their echo chamber

[truebluegreen]

141. Mean and petty. Bernistas.

Definitely not something a Hillarian would stoop to.

[kenfrequed]

180. Hmm...

I prefer Sandernista myself. But I cannot count the number of times I have politely asked Hillary supporters here to stop using BS to shorten Senator Sanders name. It isn't only mean, it is a terrible disservice to an excellent public servant who has done good throughout most of his career and has been honest and honorable.

[truebluegreen]

184. Hey! I like "Sandernista" too

and the BS thing is, well, definitely BS. Good ideas all around.

[rhett o rick]

194. When our founders were also fighting for freedom their enemies, the Loyalists called them

Yankees, intending it to be pejorative. The founders wore the name with pride. I am proud to be labeled a Sandernista.

[quickesst]

145. Agree...

....but I know there are many Sanders supporters who also support the the welfare of this country, which can only be attained with a united front. There is no demand for the false meme of a "loyalty oath". It is unfortunate that there are those who cannot argue their case without injecting dishonesty into the discussion such as "it's her turn", "coronation", and of course, "the chosen one". All created to bolster vindictive egos. Those who have stated that they will not vote for Hillary if she is the nominee justify their decision with age old adages such as "not settling for the lesser of two evils". They are even bold enough to claim their conscience as justification for their decision. They fail to understand that their "conscience" should be broader than the image they see in the mirror. I like to think that my own is broad enough to include the welfare of children, minorities, women's equality, the LGBT community, and the entire human population of this planet when I cast my vote. People can do whatever the hell they want, and I'm not going to try and tell them what to do. I just can't wrap my head around the justification for some of the decisions they make.

[99th_Monkey]

17. Quite well said. I couldn't agree more.

ANY thing but the issues, unless it's to say "oh look, Hills has evolved so there is
"hardly any difference" between her and Bernie now... issues shmissues!"

[Aerows]

19. She grew up in Park Ridge, Illinois

Pretending that she was poor is silly.

The area of Park Ridge was inhabited by the Potawatomie until they were removed in 1833, after which it was settled by people of New England origin. George Penny established a brickworks in the area. In 1910 Park Ridge had a population of 2,009. In 1930 the population was 10,417. In 1950 the population was 16,602. In 1960 the population was 32,625, with 99.9% of the population white. There were five African-Americans and 31 people classed other than black or white. In 1970, the population had risen to 42,466.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

I guess whatever narrative works.

[Control-Z]

26. I see no poverty stats.

Am I missing something?

[orpupilofnature57]

31. Are you asking or telling , or neither ???

[Control-Z]

95. Ok. I'll play.

I'm telling you I see no poverty stats. I am asking you if I've overlooked something.

There. I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[orpupilofnature57]

117. Fair enough, My father was a struggling business owner, She is part of the 1% ,Those who aspired to

get there, not by birthright , not by fortune, but by every effort of their being .

[Doctor_J]

106. park ridge was and is an upper middle class suburb

It's also pretty white. I have no problem with these things, I raised my children in a similar place. I don't think they would claim to have been poor though.

[Control-Z]

109. I've never heard a poverty claim until this thread.

As far as I know, Hillary grew up middle class. Strict father. Loving mother. I've never heard her say a bad word about her family or how she was raised.

[orpupilofnature57]

27. It's all Image, but when you attach it to her actions it's confusing at best .

[charlyvi]

50. When did she say she was poor?

She said her mother was, but when did she claim poverty for herself? Her mother had a hard time growing up but overcame it. I have NEVER heard Hillary claim she grew up in poverty. In fact, her father was fairly well off.

[orpupilofnature57]

118. Pretending to have a Southern accent is a way to appease antebellum .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. The song remains the same.

As Hillary Clinton 's march to the nomination and the presidency becomes more and more unstoppable expect the attacks on her to become more vitriolic as they grow exponentially...

[orpupilofnature57]

28. " March " Megalomaniac talk is a sign of suppressed fear, I fear they'll vote without thinking .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. Who is afraid?

Thank you in advance.

[mcar]

79. Because she's ambitious (the horror)

And plays the victim card, and the gender card, and she's shrill. All this must be true because I've read it in the deep policy discussions we have here on DU.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. You are preaching to the choir...

I feel as if I am caught in a continuous loop...

That's why I copied and pasted my response.

[mcar]

82. A continuous loop indeed

I used the phrase "lather, rinse, repeat" last week to describe it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

84. ...

[Armstead]

87. Yes it does...

If Hillary Clinton 's prepaved path to the presidency makes progress, expect some of her supporters to become increasingly smug and condescending, and arrogent.

(Which is sure as shit not going to help any efforts at "lets all come together and support the Democratic nominee.&quot

[Bernblu]

161. You would think if they really thought they had the nomination in the bag they would act nicer to

Bernie and his supporters. Well, I guess they don't have it in the bag at all.

[retrowire]

21. damn right! knr nt

[DCBob]

32. I guess it appears that way when you are under constant attack.

[pnwmom]

33. What are you talking about? Hillary is NOT complaining that people are shouting about her.

Bernie was complaining -- for some inexplicable reason -- that she was shouting at him. And her response was that some people perceive women as shouting even when they aren't.

[George II]

42. I think he was projecting, and HE was hinting at being the "victim":

First, she was speaking forcefully, not shouting.
Second, she was talking about stronger gun laws and against the gun lobby.
Third, Sanders has voted against stronger gun laws and in favor of the gun lobby.

So, I guess he put one and two together and his guilty conscience about three caused him to come up with four:

"She's shouting at me"!

[pnwmom]

49. I agree. It seemed like projection,especially coming from someone who is known

-- and appreciated -- for often loudly expressing his opinions.

[AlbertCat]

59. that she was shouting at him.

No.

I can't believe everyone, including Hillary, is fixated on the word "shouting". Just ignore the rest of the statement.... about gun control, which is what Sanders was talking about, not poor poor put upon Hillary.

[Thinkingabout]

34. Hillary has taken a lot of heat, much of it not deserved but she still stands tall,

As she says she is a proud Democrat who has long advocated for those less fortunate, she will continue.

[Skidmore]

36. That pretty much made no sense whatsoever.

Reads like:

She's been the victim of attacks from haters for decades but the attacks don't mean a thing. And, ignore the fact that she's a woman fighting for the presidency in a land where women still are not equal.

Makes no sense whatsoever. How is it victimhood to speak facts.

[George II]

39. "It's kind of sickening when she uses gender as a qualification and/or a defense"????

When has that happened in this campaign?

[nolabear]

40. Oh please. Calling out strident, paranoid, speculative accusations is hardly being a victim.

Hillary Clinton is one of the least victim-y women I've ever seen. You're welcome to get up in arms over the idea but you're not watching her kids co to he same asses I am.

[grasswire]

91. ? nt

[MisterP]

47. his arm-waving is clearly a patriarchy-benefiting attempt to SEIZE the discourse and

his overcrowded stadiums are also the consequence of a culture that teaches boys that bigger is better and which silences the small and corporation-friendly style of a true fighter

[sabrina 1]

51. It's laughable. That's why I laughed when I heard it! One the most privileged, wealthy women with

one of the LOUDEST voices in the country, trying to play the 'I'm a woman so therefore I'm a victim card'?

[Phlem]

58. She has ZERO credibility.

I'm tired of that shit too. Just another way to communicate to non critical thinking children.

[redstateblues]

136. maybe to you-you are in a minority

Calling us non critical thinking children? You're the one with no credibility.

[Phlem]

138. oooh, oh my, I am just stunned by that 3rd grade retorte.

Pray tell what am I ever going to do!

Please, solidify my comment as much as you want.

[gwheezie]

60. Hillary is a strong, intelligent woman

How is pointing out being attacked and not only surviving but rising playing victim? I don't see victim, I think at this point in her life she is used to being attacked and knows just how to play it.
That being said, I think Bernie noting any policy or position differences with Hillary is expected in a campaign and doesn't make it sexist. Yelling and waving his arms around is typical for him, he's not treating Hillary any differently than he does most people he disagrees with. I support HRC but Bernie getting worked up during a campaign doesn't offend me as a female. Personally though women's issues is another area where he doesn't make a good connection. It's just my opinion so simmer.
He has many valid points about economic issues but to me he has had some difficulty getting his positions connected to social issues. Not saying I wouldn't vote for him. I find him far, far better than even many life long dems.

[stonecutter357]

61. you seem concerned.

[in_cog_ni_to]

64. It's pathetic. Woe is me! The 74 year old Bernie bully said I was shouting, so he's sexist.

It's absolutely pathetic and an affront to all women. Playing the gender card like that when it's for nothing but political points and not because of some serious personal affront on her womanhood just makes light of the serious sexist battles females really do face everyday in real life. She should be ashamed.

At least we know she'll do and say anything to win, so Bernie best remember that. She threw out the racist dog whistles in 2007 against Obama.

She plays the gender card on Bernie because he's white and she can't play the racist dog whistles on him. Can't wait to see what else she has planned. Ageism? Religion? I Put NOTHING past the woman.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[scscholar]

69. With Sanders attacking her...

people are going to feel more sympathetic towards her.

[Armstead]

89. Ooooo poor Hillary. Being picked on by that mean old man.

[99Forever]

70. Poor victim status is just another tool to use for leverage on the gullible for Clinton.

She ain't fooling anyone that cares to use their brain.

[GeorgeGist]

71. This meme is old already.

[PatrynXX]

74. Right now at a point I might just turn Independent from the vile from her camp

reminds me of a quote from Rahm Emmanuel, something about anyone against obama from the left is fucking stupid. uh yes. and we can do that..

All Hillary's camp is doing is verifying stuff we already knew and not convincing us we are wrong. Same old Hillary. I have no idea how she's #1 in Iowa. I've yet to bump into a supporter. But then again our county was one of the few that went rather Blue in 2012 and 2014 Whats that say? Bernie and Rand Paul supporters everywhere Hillary ha.. I'm gonna have a bet down on if her supporters show up late during the Iowa Caucuses They showed up about 5 minutes after it started.. Were totally shocked by the packed house. (in 2008)

[pinebox]

80. Leave Hillary alone!

You know what I'm getting sick of? All this bullshit trying to remake her image into some progressive beacon of hope when she's anything but. We all see it, the majority of American's see it and that shows in her trustworthy ratings. To quote the ever great Henry Rollins;

"You can get away with a lot of shit if it looks like it's all you know how to do."

Precisely!

[Babel_17]

83. Focus groups need to grow tired (nt)

[Thespian2]

92. K & R!!!

Excellent thoughts...

[lewebley3]

99. Doubt you have been defending other Dem's: Attacks the Clinton's are attacks on Dem's

Hillary is not a protected entity, but she is loved and respected
by loyal Dem's. What is your problem with Hillary's popularity,
she has worked for the party

[pinebox]

181. Oh please

Enough with the whole "get in line" crap. Working for the party = working against the people basically.
Against a national minimum wage of $15? You're not a friend of MANY people.

[JoePhilly]

101. That's one whiny OP.

Hillary has been defending herself for decades now.

You suggesting that she needs others to defend her, and then whining about it, is so silly that it can not be taken seriously.

On Thursday, she spent 11 hours, sitting alone, kicking Republican ASS.

She has proven she can fend for herself. And then some!

Perhaps you missed it.

[grasswire]

105. exactly

Hillary is not weak. She is extremely strong. So why does she play the gender card? Why do her supporters make her appear weak by portraying her as a victim?

[JoePhilly]

107. LOL ... She's a warrior ... kicking ass and taking names!

She is not playing ANY cards ... except maybe the, I'll kick your ass card.

The RW (and a sad segment of the left) attack her for silly stuff ... but she always stands above that silliness, and kicks ass when the time is right.

I'm not sure which Hillary you are referring to.

[tishaLA]

124. +1

[mindwalker_i]

108. Happy to be the 100th rec

[BlueCheese]

110. The comments in this thread rival the kinds of personal insults I see from the right wing.

OP, if you want to see hateful criticism, not policy criticism, you need not look farther than some of the comments on this thread.

[Enthusiast]

121. I disagree. I see the constant victim status for Hillary as an endearing quality.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[left lowrider]

123. Bernie was obviously

Bernie was obviously referring to "both sides" (including "his" side - the left- he did say "we&quot shouting about the issue rather than communicating and solving it on common ground.

Hillary couldn't possibly think that is reference to her personally. When someone says "we" how can it be about her- let alone her gender. Once again Bernie is looking at the big picture and some people can't even imagine anything but politcis as a sporting event.

[BainsBane]

125. In order to criticize a policy, one has to know what it is

and the fact is most are not even slightly interested in her policy positions and refuse, even when provided links, to look at them. Thus, how can their criticism be of policy when they don't care what she has proposed?

Hillary Clinton is NOT a victim by any means, and her supporters don't treat her as one. She is a remarkably strong person, and her supporters know that. It is not we who have devised one conspiracy theory after another to smear black activists and to pretend the GOP held 8 Benghazi hearings in order to promote Clinton and harm Sanders. We do not take to social media to attack black activists for having the nerve to interrupt our candidate, or try to cover up for her voting record by waging personal insults in stead of discussing issues.

Every time I post about a policy position, like a tax position or guns, I am told I am "smearing a good man." I had someone compare me to a Nazi and post a series of threads demanding I take down a story from the Washington Post, a story that he nor anyone else was able to refute any of, and you yourself referred to my posting the story as "disgusting." You'll have to excuse me if I see a massive double standard at work here.

I haven't referred to you or anyone else as "disgusting" for posting anything, let alone a reputable news source. What I do--once in a while--is provide Clinton's policy positions and voting record in response. They do not read them. They announce they will not read them, and they are not interested in them. And then you want to pretend this is disagreement about policy?

It is clear what you object to is that 10 percent of the site holds an opinion that you do not approve of, and now you insist we not express it in public. Rather than working so hard to keep us from expressing our views, use ignore. You need not subject yourself of the horror of dissenting thought.


This site has for years been inundated with one thread after another, invoking every RW source and meme under the sun to attack Clinton. We all know that is the way it is. But you are clearly put out that some 10-15 percent of this site dares to disagree. Rather than telling us we have no right to express our opinions, don't read them. No one forces you to.

It's incredible to me someone can post something like this with a straight face given the content of 90 percent of the posts about the primary on this site. I am tired of people who insist on stifling all dissent, who insist that anyone who dares to think in ways they don't approve of have no right to speak. I am tried of the absolute deference for Sanders and the refusal to discuss any policies, whether Sanders or Clinton. I am tired of reading posts after posts that say nothing of substance about any policy position but instead target other voters. If you care about policy, discuss it. This doesn't come close to that. .

[bravenak]

152. Awesome post!

[DrBulldog]

131. You know, when I am dealing with a total jerk, I never think about what gender I'm dealing with.

What I'm thinking about is getting the hell away from "it".

A jerk is a jerk is a jerk.

[sabrina 1]

134. You're not the only one. Women I know react to her constant 'I'm a woman' reminders with

She's no victim. But her policies have created victims, millions of them. In Iraq, among the already struggling poor, single moms, minorities and their children.

Sick to death of the 'women are victims' just 'because they are women' routine.

I AM NOT A VICTIM! It's an insult to women and I don't know a single women who doesn't agree with sentiment.

[Skittles]

139. the hysteria seems to have reached new highs since her Benghazi panel triumph

[murielm99]

140. Hysteria?

That is another word used against women to be dismissive.

[Skittles]

143. LOLOL

but it HAS OTHER USES

I am female, and that went COMPLETELY over your head

the ANTI-HILLARY hysteria

and I am by all means not a rabid fan

[murielm99]

146. When I went to reply to your post,

I saw four lines. They said,

But it has other uses

I am female, and that went completely over your head

the anti-Hillary hysteria

and I am by all means not a rabid fan

The post I saw originally showed only two lines. I am not seeing this complete thread.

And you are correct. I did not understand that you were referring to anti Hillary hysteria. If I did not get it, perhaps you should have made it more clear. Don't put your lack of clarity on the reader.

[Skittles]

150. BYE BYE

[merrily]

149. "Woman President" was the drinking game for the first debate.

I have a feeling it will be the same for the second debate.

How are you different from Obama? It's obvious. I'm a woman.

How are you not a Washington insider. It's obvious. I'm a woman.

This kind of thing embarrasses women and is so very detrimental to them.

[NanceGreggs]

153. If you're so tired of it ...

... why don't you stop pretending that anyone is "portraying her as a protected entity who should be considered differently because of her gender" - because nobody is.

You're the one promoting this meme - her supporters clearly aren't.

So why don't YOU stop saying the thing you claim to be so tired of?

[MrWendel]

156. I wonder...

If a person of color ran again for the white house on the democratic side. Should we be saying we are sick of that person playing the race card? I love the "I'm a woman, therefore I have permission and street cred to say she is trying to use her sex to play the victim." There is no Race Card or Sex card. In this world, those are the cards dealt to those people every day. Sounds similar to me like "Bernie walked with MLK, so African Americans should be beholden to him" or "How dare John Lewis support Hillary! (See his facebook page for more great commentary on that.)"

Whitesplain or sexplain, its still talking down to and explaining either way.

[AzDar]

157. K & R

[eridani]

160. But the Repubs really do victimize her

And there really is a vast right wing conspiracy. MSM assuming she is the guaranteed Dem nominee is an entirely different issue.

[Bernblu]

165. It's pathetic, sad, and disappointing

Hillary complains about how the Republicans treat her. Then she goes and demeans as sexist a man who has spent his political life fighting for woman and children for using the word "Hollering." First of all Bernie wasn't talking about her personally. I saw him use the same word and phrase in a speech he gave in Tucson. it was very clear to anyone listening that he using in the context of two sides in the debate on gun control "hollering" at each other. And even if he was talking about her, so what? What is she, a shrinking violet? For heaven's sake, she is running for the most powerful office in the world!

The equivalent meme for Bernie would be to accuse her of being anti-semite because she made a disparaging comment about his waving his hands when he speaks as many Jews and Italians do. Of course, Bernie would never do anything so ridiculous but Hillary seems to be wiling say anything for a few votes. It's pathetic, sad, and disappointing. If she keeps this up she will lose my vote in the GE if she's the nominee,

[Darb]

168. Says a tin foil wearing Berner.

All I hear from the Berners is tin foil, conspiracy bullshit. Give it a fucking rest.

[DrBulldog]

170. Exactly. Does anyone think that the real enemies of our country - whomever they might be -

are going to give a damn whether or not our President is a woman? ("Oh! The U.S. President is a woman. Oh, we shouldn't attack them should we? Oh!&quot

Of course not. Then she should be vetted just as thoroughly as any man for that office.

[MrWendel]

178. Considering she walked into the lions den...

that was the Benghazi committee for 11 hours and walked out with lion skins, I think shes more than proved that she is ready despite her sex. Did she seem like a victim to you then? Not many people Man or Woman could do what she did.

[Sunlei]

172. Playing 'defence' in politics is the losers game.

[Helen Borg]

175. Happy to switch place with Hillary any time!

...

[Myrina]

177. Agree 100%.

KnR

[Faux pas]

179. K N R

[Bread and Circus]

183. Mega rich and one of the most powerful people on the planet...but she's a poor wittle victim...

Makes me sick.

Anyone who makes a hundred thousand dollars a speaking gig should never complain, ever, about being a victim.

There is real suffering in the world and Clinton is not part of it.

So tired of the bullshit she spews. The mendacious claptrap. The lies.

In before Benghazi!!!1! 11 hours sitting in a room w/ stupid ass Republicans for free campaign advertisement isn't too bad of a deal either.

[Major Hogwash]

187. Hillary wants the Democrats to pull their punches so she can get to the General Election.

But, I think it would be a mistake for anyone to hold back now considering she lets her husband, Bill, act like a pit bull so Bill can go after any of her Democratic opponents in the primary.

The balance of power in campaigning for President is not fair because her spouse is a former President, a member of the Democratic party.
He was very popular among Democrats when he was the President.
This tips the scales in her favor.
Yet, it is precisely this lopsided affect that caused so much uproar back in 2007 and 2008 when President Obama was running for the office of President.

Now that Hillary is trying to defend her record -- as well as Bill's, by trying to rewrite the history of the DOMA law -- it is obvious that we need someone who is not as closely connected to the past history of those years that Bill was in the White House as much as Hillary is.
We have evolved since the 90s as a party, and President Obama is today more liberal than Bill ever was.
And more liberal than Hillary ever was, for that matter.

She needs to defend her own voting record, and let the chips fall where they may.
I don't think fate is going to be kind to Hillary.
It's hard to run for President and lose.
It's terrible to run for President twice, and lose both times.

[ChiciB1]

190. I've Been Unable To Find The Correct Word To DEFINE

Hillary's inquisitioners last week and those that came before the latest one regarding all things Benghazi. One could fill in numerous adjectives ad infinitum and perhaps NEVER totally capture it's essence. So I'll just let others fill in the blank for themselves as they wish.

IMO, what I think so many people might not grasp about how and why she was able to come out looking and smelling like the best thing since sliced bread. From MY perspective since this began it really turned into a "witch hunt" as Kevin McCarthy alluded to a while back. Given our past history in this country of NOT holding politicians feet to the fire for much more heinous crimes I think what anyone might have thought REALLY happened simply was lost. They ran it so far into the ground that by the time she testified last week people were just FED UP with the issue altogether! The tail had been pulled off the tiger quite some time ago so how could it have looked like anything but a side show? What was there that could have made Hillary look bad now?

For me it was a given she came in holding almost ALL the cards and all she had to do was look strong and answer multiple variations of the same questions. The hearing came off as a farce with the inquisitioners looking more like a mob of rabid idiots who's blood pressure kept rising. The length alone played in her favor because by the time it was done I feel people lost total interest other than perhaps watching the idiots and their temper tantrums! THAT was the show!

I checked out early myself. Then let's ask ourselves what all this had to do with fixing any specific problem or what solution was offered. NONE! Did anyone come away thinking a problem had been solved? I didn't. Did ANYONE offer substantive fixes to anything that's so broken in this country? I "could" have missed it, but don't think so.

So Hillary stood her ground, helped them twist themselves into a pretzel and she comes out with a gold metal. I applaud her for her endurance and performance, but there was NOTHING there that told me her policies and what she wants to do if she becomes POTUS were any different from what she's campaigning on.

So, as a supporter of Bernie's I see NO reason to all of a sudden switch my support for him when for me he's MY kind of Democrat, and one has been vilified and tagged as some sort of wild "SOCIAL-ist" anarchist! I can NO LONGER support what our very own Democratic Party has become and I see no reason that Hillary is actually going to change the course it's been on since the DLC/Third Way hijacked it! Are they or are they NOT still beholden to Wall Street, Big Pharma, Insurance Co.'s and all the rest? Are they even listening or working FOR US anymore?? If they are, I see very little of it and I refuse to lie to myself that THIS Democratic Party will see any change if she's elected. What's worse is that we STILL have Debbie Wasserman-Schultz sitting pretty and seemingly selling her soul for heavens knows what! We're so close to complete Oligarchy I wonder how many realize the true reality of what this means.

As a woman myself, it's time to elect a woman... just NOT THIS WOMAN! That's MY opinion and I want better!

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196. There never has been

The reason there never has been is that Hillary can handle it so well.

You cannot seriously claim the MSM and the press and the right wing have not gone after Hillary, and Bill, with all they've got. And she has handled it, so she comes off as the victor, not the victim.