Hillary Clinton BACKS Review, NOT ABOLISHMENT Of Death Penalty

[Segami]

Clinton backs review, not abolishment, of death penalty

MANCHESTER, N.H. — Hillary Clinton does not favor abolishing the death penalty, she said on Wednesday morning, but she did back a review of the policy as it once again becomes a topic of national conversation.

“We have a lot of evidence now that the death penalty has been too frequently applied, and too often in a discriminatory way, so I think we have to take a hard look at it,” Clinton said in response to an audience question here at St. Anselm College, some of her most extensive comments on the topic in years.

“I do not favor abolishing it, however, because I do think there are certain egregious cases that still deserve the consideration of the death penalty, but I’d like to see those be very limited and rare, as opposed to what we’ve seen in most states,” she added.

Clinton has not weighed in expansively on the issue during the 2016 election cycle, though her main primary opponent, Bernie Sanders, has long stood against capital punishment. Clinton said while running for the Senate in 2000 that capital punishment policies had her “unenthusiastic support."

cont'

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/hillary-clinton-death-penalty-215254

[bravenak]

1. I have an issue where I cannot feel bad for people who rape and murder especially children.

I would not protest the death penalty for them.

[jeff47]

3. I have an issue with a country that executes innocent people. (nt)

[bravenak]

8. Me too. But if some guys dna is inside of a dead child?

I have no issue with the state taking care of him for me. I'd hate to see what I could do to him.

[jeff47]

13. Then let him rot for decades instead of ending it quickly.

There's no good reason to actually execute him. If you're religious, Hell will still be there. If you're worried about cost, life without parole is cheaper. If you're worried about being "tough", 50 years in prison is a lot worse than 10.

[bravenak]

17. I'll let the jury decide.

I have daughters and I would personally handle it and was a victim of things that make me know that they never stop. Never. If they get an overturn on a conviction? Possible another raped and murdered child. Nope!

[jeff47]

24. And when it turns out the lab screwed up the DNA test?

The success rate of the Innocence Project in capital cases clearly indicates we've executed a lot of innocent people. Especially African-American men.

If my daughter was brutally murdered, I would not be soothed by executing large numbers of innocent people.

If they get an overturn on a conviction?

And why is that only possible in a non-capital case?

[bravenak]

30. I would be soothed by the fact that the murderer could not go muder another child.

I am not against a review of dna. I think we should review it upmto the date of execution to ensure the wrong man does not die. In the case of twins, sure, unless they can tell them apart using improved dna methods? Life.

[jeff47]

38. And how would they go murder that other child from prison?

Life without parole means they're gonna die in prison, not get a chance to kill anyone else.

Overturn their sentence? There's nothing that restricts this to non-death penalty cases. Also, you can't just ask for a new trial 20 years later when the witnesses can't be found. You actually have to have some compelling evidence of misconduct or newly-available forensics.

Lastly, DNA isn't infallible. Labs are not perfect. And in many crimes, it only shows the defendant was present, not that they actually committed the crime. And that's in the cases where DNA is actually present and usable.

Executing any innocent people is too many, and we've executed thousands of innocent people over the years.

[bravenak]

41. That's why I said they should review the dna at many steps in the process.

But I am unwilling to feel sadness over Ted Bundy and the like.

[jeff47]

47. So that excuses killing Cameron Todd Willingham

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Todd_Willingham

Summary: "Arson investigator" in TX didn't actually have any formal training, nor performed any tests to back up his "poof" that the fire was arson. Willingham was executed, mostly based on this investigator's assertions.

Actual arson investigators with actual scientific evidence demonstrated every claim by the prosecution was wrong. But Willingham was already dead.

You being "unwilling to feel sadness over Ted Bundy" means people like Willingham die.

And how, specifically, did killing Ted Bundy instead of letting him rot in prison work better?

[bravenak]

50. Why are you putting words in my mouth and being so aggressive? I am done here.

[jeff47]

51. Well, you support the death penalty. Willingham's execution is a natural result of that.

You've also carefully avoided explaining how life without parole would fail to keep someone from re-offending.

[bravenak]

52. My fault, totally.

[jeff47]

54. Perhaps you should not support something if you don't like the side effects.

Also, how would life without parole fail to keep someone from re-offending?

[bravenak]

55. Perhaps we should look at jury demographics.

Many times when black men or others are falsely convicted, there is an all white jury. Look into that part.

[jeff47]

56. We could also answer why life without parole would allow someone to reoffend.

But you're continuing to avoid that question.

As for jury demographics, that also comes as a side effect of the death penalty. Another side effect is the death penalty is sought far more often for African-American defendants than white defendants.

There's also the problem that we're finding lots of things we thought were "proof" are not. There's even reason to doubt fingerprints.

Throw them in jail for life. It's cheaper, it's possible to release them if we screwed up, and it is a harsher punishment anyway.

[bravenak]

57. First the juries though.

So many convicted by all white juries.

[jeff47]

59. Because explaining your own position is hard?

Why would life without parole allow someone to reoffend? That's your claim above.

[bravenak]

60. I think all white juries are contributing to black men being falsely convicted.

Take that issue away first. Then we can talk.

[jeff47]

61. How, exactly, would I "take that away"?

I'm the one who brought up racial bias in death penalty cases, including issues well beyond all white juries.

Why are you unable to explain your own position? How does life without parole allow someone to reoffend, as you claimed?

[bravenak]

63. Work on it.

[jeff47]

64. So, time for you to run away from a position you can't support? (nt)

[beam me up scottie]

67. Well done, jeff.

The death penalty is inherently racist, how can anyone recognize that and still support it?

Makes no sense.

[bravenak]

44. Thank you for that!

Then they should review both the dna and the other evidence like hair, witnesses, confessions, video surveillance, etc..

[jeff47]

49. Recent studies have shown that "hair" evidence is actually bullshit

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/fbi-overstated-forensic-hair-matches-in-nearly-all-criminal-trials-for-decades/2015/04/18/39c8d8c6-e515-11e4-b510-962fcfabc310_story.html

A whole lot of "proof" turns out to not really be proof of anything. We don't even know if fingerprint matches are actually reliable, because nobody bothered to do a formal study to see how unique fingerprints are.

[think]

2. Map of the world in regards to the death penalty:

[arcane1]

29. We sure do keep some interesting company, don't we?

The Land of the Free, where we have more people locked up than any other county, and love to kill them too.

[think]

37. Yep. It appears we're much better at coming up with slogans than living up to the ideals

the actual words are suppose to represent....

[restorefreedom]

34. wow, aren't we the paragon of fairness and justice....

along with saudi arabia, china, and somalia.

terrific

[tularetom]

4. I doubt that she cares one way or the other about the death penalty

She assumes she has the nomination in her pocket and this posture will help her with "moderate" or "centrist" voters in the general election.

Everything she says is the result of a political calculation. She has no core beliefs, beyond getting elected.

[WillyT]

40. + 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!!

Runs in the family...

Ricky Ray Rector (January 12, 1950 – January 24, 1992) was executed for the 1981 murder of police officer Robert Martin in Conway, Arkansas, USA.

After killing a man in a nightclub he at first agreed to turn himself in to authorities, but then instead shot in the back the police officer who had negotiated his surrender. He then shot himself in the head in a suicide attempt. The attempt effectively resulted in a lobotomy.[1]

A 1991 request for a writ of certiorari to the Supreme Court was denied, with Marshall dissenting.[2]

Despite Rector's mental state, then Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton made a point of returning to Arkansas to oversee Rector's January 24, 1992 execution during the 1992 U.S. Presidential campaign.

Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Ray_Rector

[NCTraveler]

5. Where does McCain stand? Doesn't that hold weight with you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251737393

[Segami]

7. Go back to your sandbox if you have nothing to say.

[NCTraveler]

11. This is my sandbox, as well as yours.

And you are bringing conservatives into our playground to attack progressives. Seems the welcome mat is out for you to do so. Seems the welcome mat is also out for me to call it out. "if you have nothing to say." I had something to say and said it. I understand it might get hidden. You have no authority here to tell me when I can say something or what I can say. That is for a jury or the administrators of the site. You literally promoted McCain to attack a progressive. I will say I am much more in-line with the board. But to this point we are both welcome here and it is pretty arrogant of you to tell me otherwise.

[Segami]

14. Do you have an opinion on the posted article?

Very simple.....yes or no?

But, it is part of your MO to shift the discussion elsewhere.

[NCTraveler]

19. I oppose the death penalty in all situations and have said so many a time.

I was just wondering what the conservative you used to attack a progressive thought about it. You know, your mo. I think that is very fair and is not shifting the discussion in any way.

[Segami]

25. What does your so called 'conservative' have anything to do with this article

or discussion? Your actions are quite transparent....eom.

[NCTraveler]

26. I hope my actions are transparent. Not sure what you think I am trying to hide.

There isn't a conspiracy around every corner.

Check out this op.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251737393

A conservative was literally used to attack a progressive. I'm not sure what you think I'm hiding. I'm literally as transparent as can be an make sure of that. I'm very open. Strange that you take issue with transparency. Judging from the link, I can see why.

[Segami]

28. Whatever.

[think]

10. Hillary is against torture now.

[NCTraveler]

12. Please show me where I even touched on that subject.

If you are going to put words in peoples mouth you should at least have a starting point. Where is it? The op is the one who promoted McCain in order to take shots at a progressive.

[think]

15. Sory to offend you. You said nothing about Hillary's former support of torture

Nor implied anything in that regard.

[NCTraveler]

20. I was scratching my head trying to figure out how it just showed up....

with the insinuation I had said it. Not offended. It just didn't make sense. Thanks.

[arcane1]

32. You're going to actually complain that someone changed the subject on you?

[NCTraveler]

39. I'm fine with it. I really don't see much of a complaint.

Amazing how hypersensitive people are right now. You have an issue with me correcting words someone put in my mouth to the point you had to post. I even thanked the poster. Glad you got your two cents in though. It was truly informative.

I'm sure you welcome people putting words in your mouth, with respect to something that isn't even a part of the discussion, and then tell them that they are correct. lol. Emoticon goes here.

[BainsBane]

6. The president doesn't determine the Death Penalty

The Supreme Court does.

[Skidmore]

9. Indeed.

We need civics classes back in the curriculums ever so much.

[jeff47]

16. Hrm....what branch of the government prosecutes crimes

and thus determines if the prosecution will seek the death penalty?

What branch can commute every federal death sentence to life without parole?

And who nominates new SCOTUS justices?

(ETA: There's also this Legislative branch that actually writes the laws, and can remove the death penalty from them. It can also pass a law forbidding states from carrying out death sentences)

[BainsBane]

31. Is your claim that she will screen all justices for pro-death penalty views?

Based on what?

The president does not prosecute crimes. DOJ does, and the president is prohibited from interfering in prosecutions.


Amazing how when you all finally decide to discuss an issue it has nothing to do with what the president actually does.

This is an excuse, and it isn't going to change the fact that Sanders campaign is sinking.

[jeff47]

35. My claim is that the president has a considerable role to play.

Whether or not it is used to screen SCOTUS nominees is up to whomever wins.

The president does not prosecution crimes. DOJ does

And who picks the people who work at the DoJ? The president, who nominates the AG and the US Attorneys.

Amazing how when you all finally decide to discuss an issue it has nothing to do with what the president actually does.

Amazing how you think the president has absolutely no power over who works in the executive branch, or who gets nominated for federal judgeships.

[Armstead]

18. She wants to "Review" everything

That's the handy all-purpose substitution for actually taking a position

[Segami]

21. The Clinton 'one-size-fits-all' position

[Armstead]

23. I'll get back to you on that after the election

[Bread and Circus]

45. Exactly.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

22. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov

See IWR, support of torture, for further evidence of incompetency. Not to mention the questionable conscious of someone who makes "mistakes" that cost lives.

[Herman4747]

27. "Abolishment" or instead, "Abolition"...

...that is the question.

[WillyT]

33. K & R !!!

[restorefreedom]

36. review, which is code for

"i will say stuff like this until the election is mine, and then into the trash heap it goes and back to business as usual"

[Segami]

46. +1000

[Bread and Circus]

43. I am against the death penalty, period.

[restorefreedom]

48. me too. i believe it is more about us than the convicted.

as much as they might "deserve" a death penalty, and I'm not even sure how I feel about that, but I think it says a lot about us as a country when we want to give our government the legal right to kill its own citizens.

[grasswire]

53. "Beware those in whom the urge to punish is strong."

Nietzsche said that, and it is apropos here.

She's an authoritarian.

[UglyGreed]

58. Wow war, banksters

and killing prisoners. Walks like duck......

[Maedhros]

62. How much does the private prison industry charge for an execution, anyway?

That's got to bring in a pretty penny - specialized service, and all that. I doubt Hillary would bite the hand that feeds her by curtailing their profit opportunities...

[askew]

65. O'Malley rightly hits Hillary for her backwards stand on the Death Penalty

Rival Democratic candidate Martin O’Malley responded to Clinton’s remarks in a statement saying “The death penalty is racially-biased, ineffective deterrent to crime, and we must abolish it.”

“Our nation should not be in the company of Iran, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and Yemen in carrying out the majority of public executions,” O’Malley said, adding that the death penalty is “fundamentally at odds with our values.”

“As president, I would work to build consensus to end it nationally,” O’Malley said.

O'Malley abolished death penalty in Maryland and commuted remaining death row sentences to life in prison. He backs his talk with action unlike some candidates.

[mvd]

66. Not surprised

Sounds like the position she has had for a while. But it shows again how she is not a leader on enough progressive issues. Will she change on this when convenient for her? At one time I had the same position, but that was years and years ago. I am completely opposed to using it for multiple reasons: moral, always a chance that innocent people die, expensive due to needed appeals, and not applied fairly.

[Scuba]

68. Yet some still insist she's a progressive.