2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe Rise Of Bernie Sanders And The PANIC Of The Third Way Democratic Centrists
The Third Way Instructing Democrats........
On Wednesday morning, the think tank Third Way held a briefing in which it warned candidates that they risked personal and broadly shared electoral harm if they echoed Sanders' populist message.
The rise of Sanders, though unanticipated, has exposed familiar ideological fissures within the Democratic Party. Virtually every modern presidential election has pitted an insurgent candidate with populist appeal against a more centrist-minded or establishment alternative. Bill Clinton's win in 1992 ushered in a generation of modern, more moderate New Democrats. And when Clinton left office, several of his former staffers started up Third Way to discourage the party from reverting to its leftward ways. During the Obama era, the group issued similar warnings about the rise of Democratic populism and played consequential policy roles -- most memorably encouraging lawmakers to abandon the pursuit of a public option during the crafting of health care reform in 2010. On the eve of a post-Obama America, Third Way's role appears more defensive or, at least, complicated by the few candidates running for the White House. Far from cheerleading Hillary Clinton's presidential candidacy, it warned her not to mimic her nearest competitor.
~snip~
Though officials at Third Way warned about potential missteps Democrats might make at the presidential level, much of the hour-long briefing on Wednesday was spent arguing that the party's success in such elections has masked fundamental problems elsewhere. And on a purely numerical level, the math is indisputable. As Jonathan Cowan, Third Way's president, noted, Democrats hold the fewest offices in Congress, statehouses and governors' mansions since 1928. The factors behind this, however, are deeply disputed. In its presentation, Third Way argued that a focus on issues like a $15 minimum wage, expanding Social Security benefits and advocating for single-payer health care all create the political dynamics that make Democrats electorally vulnerable. But few Democrats have run on this platform in past races. During the disastrous 2014 midterm elections, a number of senators called for expanding Social Security benefits. But talk of single-payer health care was nonexistent outside highly progressive (and largely dismissed) quarters. And the debate at the time was about raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, not $15. Third Way itself calls for a wage floor of $10-$12, based on average hourly wages and regional cost variations.
Third Way's platform calls for passage of free trade deals like the Trans Pacific Partnership, making the research and development tax credit permanent and revenue-neutral corporate tax reform. The group advocates for raising tax rates on capital gains from 20 to 25 percent and for limiting deductions for high wage earners. But on the whole, it is the more corporate-minded plank of the Democratic platform, much to the distaste of its critics.
Michael Briggs, Sanders' top spokesman, was a touch more sardonic. "Did Mr. Daley have anything to say about all of the American factories that closed or the millions of American jobs that were lost because he pushed NAFTA through Congress?" he asked.
cont'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/third-way-presidential-campaign_563237f2e4b0c66bae5b4066
bravenak
(34,648 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Do you see it in your crystal ball?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Do they make things up?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They can never let a slight pass unnoticed. They pretend BLM endored their candidate. They start yelling race card and gender card.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Then pretend that didn't happen when their DU timeout expires.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Response to jeff47 (Reply #36)
arikara This message was self-deleted by its author.
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)them just recently in a current thread, by ridiculing and challenging them, even common sense observations. Its unreal.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)just because it says something against someone towards whom that person has an irrational hatred. In other words, they're not worried about racism so much if they have a political point they want to score.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Then they go act like the AA people are making things up. They play pretend and are terribly nasty to many AA members who post in the AA group.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)and professes to speak for all PoC as if they are a monolith and even bans or ostracizes or name calls those PoC who don't agree with the vocal AA Hillary supporters.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)They just choose to not be objective and to let OPs that are nothing but smears of Sanders and his supporters to stand.
Again, being black doesn't make you immune to criticism of how you behave as a human being.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)That same racist said a lot of racist things about Obama yet you deem it worthy to post her hate filled rant about Bernie.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)Being black doesn't make you immune to criticism as a human being.
If I posted a vile sexist's hit piece on Clinton while ranting about women's rights and how women are being attacked on DU I would sure as hell expect to be called out for it.
jfern
(5,204 posts)BLM asked for a debate, but Hillary's biggest supporter, DWS said no more debates.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)They think using McCain and his thoughts to support their candidate isn't panicking. They truly don't think questioning if LGBQT and AA are suffering from Stockholm is panicking.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I keep thinking they will figure it out soon. No. They can't.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)is brilliant political discourse. The only thing keeping a small group of them around at all at this point is a few Clinton supporters who's confidence has turned to arrogance.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)After months of turd way, corporatist, blah blah blah, people are just done dealing with it.
I think I cannot wait until this is over.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Do you remember that? Hmmmnnn?? Sure you do!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I kicked it to put it at the top of the board in case the link doesn't work for you.
How about the brilliance of "Turd Way." I remember some in grade school always laughed at the word "Turd."
I will say the image itself in the op makes me feel all warm and fuzzy if your remove the grade school banter.
frylock
(34,825 posts)PHOENIX If you think you've heard this line of attack before, there's a reason.
Republican John McCain's latest TV spot is playing off Hillary Rodham Clinton's best-known ad against Barack Obama to heighten any concerns that Obama isn't ready to take a 3 a.m. phone call that could signal a crisis demanding judgment and experience.
The McCain ad debuted Tuesday, just hours before Clinton was to address the Democratic National Convention in Denver. While she was expected to repeat her post-primary support for Obama's candidacy in an effort to bring her supporters to his side, McCain's campaign didn't want voters to forget that she had once considered McCain to be more experienced.
Opening with a scene lifted from Clinton's old ad, the McCain spot then switches to scenes of war, missiles and hooded gunmen as an announcer says: "Uncertainty. Dangerous aggression. Rogue nations. Radicalism." Clinton herself is shown saying: "I know Sen. McCain has a lifetime of experience that he will bring to the White House. And Sen. Obama has a speech he gave in 2002."
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You link doesn't flow in any way nor does it back up your comments.
Are you talking about this one that has been discussed in the conversation you have gotten into right here? I will kick it as well in case the link doesn't work for you.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251687330
frylock
(34,825 posts)Clinton and McCain TEAMED UP to go after Obama.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)"What does DU have to do with anything?"
You didn't even read the comment you originally replied to. Just jumped in to start a fight.
And you said you had a link where Clinton teamed up with McCain to attack Obama. The link you provided doesn't show that at all. That was either very dishonest of you or you used the wrong link.
Have a good day.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Really?!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)You claim Clinton worked with McCain and your link doesn't back it up. You then move the goal posts in a manner that no matter how I answer still won't back up your patently false claim. You ask what it has to du showing that you clearly didn't even read the initial post you responded to.
Have fun at whatever you are doing. It was funny for a minute.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Ignore, triangulate and prevaricate.
Soon, they'll start co-opting your statements as their own.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Third way Democrats really aren't progressives. They sort of have a different agenda with regards to energy, the ecnomy, education, and a number of other issues. They are considerably more economically conservative and Hillary was one of the founding members of the organization.
They tend to see her adopting some of Bernie's language as something they do not like. I don't think she will lead as progressively as Sanders would, or even for that matter President Obama has. In some ways, the Third Way speaking out as a seperate entity seems to be creating an illusion of a "right flank" to Hillary which is odd because she really has been with that organization the whole time. I don't think Hillary is going to stick to what she has said on a number of economic issues during and before the debate as she has already drifted back to stating she would support some kind of TPP.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It is not the same thing as third way democrats. It is about people who ignore social and gender equality in favor of economic equality but pay lip service to those things. If it does not apply, people should disregard it as it has nothing to do with them. I noticed it this summer. It fits.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Seriously Brave can we just not have a bullshit discussion and have logical "common sense" arguments to support Hillary?
Making up bullshit labels to stick on people isn't fair nor right and you being AA should know that better than anyone.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)as needed. We have more words every year.
Why should I especially know being an aa? Does being aa protect me from harassment or just add to my burdens of what I need to do? Why do you not need to know as well as I? I hated when Gaza happened and people kept saying stuff about how the Israeli's should know this or that because they are Jews mostly. Pissed me off but I was quiet on that. Next time, I'm gonna go all out on that. It's a bullshit tactic trying to put extra burdens on one group that the other doesn't have to bear. You should know better after what hapoened this summer than to chide me on behaivior unless you set tripped on the group targeting blm and other aa's. Do we not deserve fair treatment and this whatever you are giving me, in our defense?
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Did you jump in for me then?
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)You are obviously very intelligent and have the gift of writing. You dont need me to defend you but if I see an instance of derogatory labelling against you on something new I will try to speak out.
Also I think we had some nice posts to each other and I dont want to sully the spirit of those. So I do wish you well even though I may be your political adversary here for now.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)nasty stuff from their side aimed at me. Just think. Not trying to abuse you just show you my pov. And it would have been nice to have you around at that time helping out. Not for me, because you are right, I can handle it. But others were run off the board and I now only see their Facebooks.
luvspeas
(1,883 posts)Being AA does not make anyone more or less likely to know anything. Save your scolding for children who do not finish their peas. Oh and just so you know-people are entitled to their opinion and they can express it in a label if they want to. Who appointed you the arbiter of definition?
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)What you just expressed, and you did it nice and concisely.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Of ways for centuries in order to oppress them and thus should be particularly aware of the nefarious power of labels then you haven't studied history.
But yeah anyone with a brain AA or not should be on equal footing to say unfairly and derogatively labelling people in the way Bravenak has with this "Third Way Progressive" BS is wrong and a form of using language to oppress other people's points of view.
It's a label. It has a negative connotation. And it's used in a way that detracts from other on DU rahter than builds.
Stop it.
Or in Hillary's words: Cut it out!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)luvspeas
(1,883 posts)Who do you think outed the "nagee"?. Was also on time out right before you. I got this.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They alerted you to death for that.
luvspeas
(1,883 posts)There are good folks here. They need your voice.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They will honor me again I am sure.
Number23
(24,544 posts)"being AA you should know better"
cui bono
(19,926 posts)is from an oppressed group?
Reality is still reality. Facts are still facts. The Third Way is a real thing. One doesn't just get to make shit up about that, shit that makes absolutely no sense what so ever, and not get called on it. This is not based on opinion, this is about something that actually exists and contorted in an attempt to tack it on to progressives when it just doesn't apply. It's utter nonsense.
And while you're so busy trying to defend people giving their "opinions" you are trying to silence the one with which you don't agree. Hm...
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I'm sorry, but everyone I know of puts economic equality alongside social equality. To me, trying to parse them is a false-choice narrative. I am for all of that, I would just say that economic progressivism has been shunted aside for about twenty or thirty years in the democratic party.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The one who when I said I should not get crusts while they get pie, that told me 'the crusts are the best part!' To convince me to be satisfied with a smaller share than they get? That was one.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I don't know any of my progressive friends that feel that way and I have never heard anyone say anything like that before.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)The factors behind this, however, are deeply disputed.
In its presentation, Third Way argued that a focus on issues like a $15 minimum wage, expanding Social Security benefits and advocating for single-payer health care all create the political dynamics that make Democrats electorally vulnerable. But few Democrats have made their campaigns squarely about these three issues in past races. During the disastrous 2014 midterm elections, a number of senators called for expanding Social Security benefits. But talk of single-payer health care was nonexistent outside highly progressive (and largely dismissed) quarters. And the debate at the time was about raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, not $15. Third Way itself calls for a wage floor of $10-$12, based on average hourly wages and regional cost variations.
They are trying to smear progressives for the failure of their own platform and their inarticulate stuffed shirt candidates.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)Which it is.
A politician who refuses to address structural problems is the antithesis of "progressive". There is no lasting progress unless the legal and business environment is re-structured to favor average citizens.
Hillary won't even dare to use a quintessentially capitalist tool (antitrust) even while calling banks "too big to fail" herself. She wants to apply a box of "oversight" bandaids (ie. more corruption) to a structural issue that calls for banks to be split up into smaller entities and their speculative business separated from the rest.
You cannot "reform" a mixture of Savings-and-Load and market speculation in the same business because the incentives for double-dealing against the public are overwhelming.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)That is exactly what I mean. They laser focus on that so much that you cannot even discuss social justice. They just yell oligarchy. They oligarchy did not invent racism, they used it and the people were and are more than willing to accept what they see as their due. They will not diciss it social justice because to them, everything is based around money.
cprise
(8,445 posts)for reasons that are well established.
Our world has, in fact, been re-structured around money and there is now nothing that isn't considered fair game as a profit scheme, from water systems to police forces and prisons. You're not going to see much discussion about race or any other issue without reference to the extreme version of capitalism we've been saddled with.
So I'd ask you to consider to what extent the violence and repression against blacks is driven by big business. Your earlier unfair assessment of Sanders (having to be publicly shamed to act on race?) suggests to me that consideration is lacking.
Also, my understanding of racist themes (and "race" itself) is as a pseudo-scientific idea from the 1800s used to justify slavery and discrimination. Many scholars consider explicit racism a capitalist invention, and MLK himself saw economics intrinsically tied to racial justice (he thought democratic socialism may be a necessary prerequisite for racial justice; I have no doubt MLK influenced Sanders directly).
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You really do have to live it to understand it. Yes. The 'oligarchy' takes advantage of it but they are merely taking advantage of human nature and the inherent tendencies of mankind. Your academic- market-economic based explanation does not address it from our point of view. It feels like a rationalization and a justification for individuals to blame a mysterious force for forcing people into behaiviours that they would have anyway. To blame the rich for things a poor man does to another poor man feels empty and phony. The worst thing to ever be was a slave of a poor white man. To live in a Jim Crow area where you do slightly better than a poor white farmer nearby. They would poison your cows. The day to day aspects are not addressed. Some say the oligarchy is oppressing blacks through the police force to protect themselves, but really it was to oppress us for ALL white folks to be above us. So if the rich is the poor white mans oligarchy then the poor white man along with all others are the black man's oligarchy, once we help you fight them, we still gotta fight YOU for equality if you chose to ignore it and just blame the rich.
cprise
(8,445 posts)The first half of that statement, however, reeks of anti-intellectualism (against black intellectuals especially).
Capitalism is a system (not just a bunch of rich people) with a mindset that permeates our society - top to bottom. It profits by exacerbating our worst tendencies. When people always feel an overwhelming need to compete, they will first choose obvious targets (people who look different) for their fraud, aggression and dirty tricks. Where there is a dominant culture, the aggression flows primarily in one direction toward minorities and outsiders.
As to how much blame the rich deserve for racism, I think the question can be answered by looking at how responsible they are for starting wars. Its another way to get peons to fight each other. (BTW, do you really expect people regardless of color to elevate domestic racism over the spread of war?
BTW, considering partisans with a taste for for misrepresenting identity politics... I'll take "our point of view" from such individuals with a big grain of salt.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)So we get the system component, but racism is it's OWN SYSTEM. Our systems intersect but they are not identical or the same nor can racism be rolled into capitalism in that way since we are talking american RACE BASED slavery and the caste system and the fallout that has not ended. Looking at everything from only the anti capitalist perspective absolves the individual of any responsibility to make positive change on their own. They are instead told the system is at fault for all of their own actions. It is both. The system AND the individual at fault.
cprise
(8,445 posts)has ignored race, too. I'm not forgetting what it means to converse with a dishonest partisan. Bait people with falsehoods about gender, too, if you like. Nothing rude or disruptive about that...
If you looked at the most progressive sites and periodicals over the past 15 years, you would see a LOT of people (who also post a lot on boards like this) fielding stories about race and racial discrimination when most mainstream wonks were in "post-racial" denial. These unfashionable sources kept us aware of the mass incarceration trend and the large racist aspect to it. I see a lot of Bernie supporters among those people... easily most of them. The charge about "ignoring" is a lie of transference. They do NOT deserve the Circular Firing Squad treatment you are trying to serve up for them.
The best thing about CFS is, it happened in the past... read about it in the 80s and seen it first hand in the 90s. It feeds on attention-seeking trolls who "wear it on my sleeve" (to grab a recent quote). Some of these people are well-meaning, but have the antisocial streak nevertheless. It gets old pretty quick.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)I had composed a reply to that very excerpt and it somehow didn't post.
The Clintons along with a few very wealthy individuals started the DLC, which in turn has brought the Democratic Party to where it is now. The Party has concentrated all the effort and money on the WH. They left all state and local democrats to flounder. The GOP instead played at the local level and have managed to take over many traditionally democratic districts and states.
This is no longer about different party platforms. It is about (in Bernie's words) an oligarchy.
As I see it, the only difference I see between "The New Democrats" and the GOP is, while one actively calls for the destruction of our civil rights and the economy, the other just let's it happen.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... which are anything BUT progressive in their policies pushed by Third Way people to try and push things like TPP, etc. that work AGAINST what REAL progressives want.
https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2015/03/17/progressive-coalition-for-fast-track-and-tpp-appears-from-nowhere/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2445516
If you are talking about these so-called Third Way "Progressives" that really do exist, then YEP, they are panicking too!
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Mystified with your nebulous response there. These are the only "progressive" organizations of people under the Third Way (which I'm sure is also probably trade marked too).
cprise
(8,445 posts)Which is not just a river in Egypt.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Panic leads to a lot of arm waving and flailing about. It looks like that is already happening. Good.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The Conservatives don't care about the 16,000,000 children living in poverty. Their main concern is Corp-Profits, even if they pretend to support social justice.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)That is no way to raise the level of discourse. It merely invites ridicule and reactionary commentary.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)want profits and less taxes. HRC says she is willing to support social justice issues but only if the middle and working classes pay for them and not her close friends at Goldman-Sachs.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)those posing as his grassroots does not even give me an inkling that he will be responsive to our needs. Policy is not everything. How you respond to events tells alot about how you will in the future. It is a part of your personality.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)how you will in the future. It is a part of your personality." HRC betray her Party by joining with Bush/Cheney and giving speeches to help them sell their war. That's who she is, who she will always be. I wish she would have stood up to those lying Republicons.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)As he was this Summer before he even thought to put a racial justice aspect on his website.
cprise
(8,445 posts)But clearly, its Hillary who is the laggard here:
http://www.npr.org/2015/08/20/433257673/black-lives-matter-activist-hillary-clintons-racial-justice-record-is-abysmal
Though Democratic frontrunner Hillary Clinton has brought up police violence and racism in several speeches, she has yet to release a detailed platform, a fact that black activist leaders have noticed and called out.
Clinton has continued with vague platitudes and evasions about race to this day. Trying to recast this issue in her favor is downright Orwellian.
As for issues that harshly affect POCs, like the perverse incentives created by the Clinton-supported for-profit prisons... well... Clinton likes money. At least Bernie had the integrity to campaign against the structural aspects of racism to begin with.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Not at all. Just because you were satisfied with him does not mean us black folks all should be. Most of us are not, so, you must not know what we think. If you care, just ask. NPR is not the decided of what black folks think is reasonable.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Without people trying to paint him as a racial bigot.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Stop saying race card and gender card and stuff. It reflects back on his campaign. No harassing journalists. Or random black tweeters. This is the microcosm. It is not much different anywhere else that discusses politics.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I seem to recall yesterday you wanted Bernie to just drop out. Would you like people that support Bernie Sanders to just go away as well?
Despite your statement yesterday I really thought we had a good conversation towards the end but now I am starting to wonder about your intentions.
You have invented a word "third way progressive" that seems to be an attempt to shift language and you don't seem to be as interested in discussing policy. I don't even know how "third way progressive" can apply to the definition you have crafted in terms of somehow going for economic justice without social justice? I mean, if you had a term like "splitters" or something then that might make sense. No, this seems more like trying to piggyback.
As I have said repeatedly to you, most progressives I know want social and economic justice both. Just because some of us are talking about economic justice more doesn't mean we don't want both. We just feel that very few people have been talking about economic justice at all and almost no one has done anything about it.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)There is not always a sinister tone to my statements.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... because they are more directly affected by it. I think I understand completely how so many POC feel like they need higher priority on the racial bigotry that is going on and trying to solve that, when they have to deal with it so much personally and in a way that people who aren't POC can't really understand. I try to. I mentioned the other day that the people I worked with as store detectives though seeming like decent people had lived in a culture that had POC looked upon more suspiciously, even though some of our security guards were also POC too. It was a cultural thing, that I didn't care for at the time, but probably had I known more POC's experience, I would have tried to work to help deal with more than I did. That doesn't mean I don't care, but as I've always indicated here, I want to interact with and have many POC friends that I talk to to try and understand it as much as I can. Can you really expect more of us when we can't experience this directly? Yes, there's always new things and ways to deal with it to try fixing the problem, but I don't think it is an attitude problem amongst progressives, as much in some cases as it is an awareness problem.
I myself have an issue I talk about here a lot that I'd like to see get more attention in how the H-1B Visa worker program has been put together and still works to take away American workers' jobs (particularly tech workers). I have personal experience with that over the last two decades that probably many others can't understand the depth I have experienced it, and I don't claim to understand how those who actually work within this program also deal with it, but I have many Indian friends who I've talked with about this, and I've seen articles to that note that many of them resent how they are treated by this program too as indentured servants.
But just because many others don't experience it the way I do, and I at times wonder how many others care (Hillary seems to want to work against our interests on this issue by supporting H-1B - at least when she talked about it in 2007). But I welcome the many who do talk about it here, and most that support Bernie and populist movements are sympathetic too.
As for social justice issues, though I'm not someone of middle eastern descent, I lived in Turkey for five years when I was a kid growing up, and have had many Turkish friends over the years, and have worked closely with good Armenian friends too, and we've talked about the many issues surrounding their difficulties too, and I feel I have more sympathies for them and other Persian friends some of whom are my closest friends who in many ways today are treated worse in many instances than POC with the anti-Muslim hatred that exists now. I try to help them with their plight, and I would like to think many POC would also work a lot with them to help them find justice too. Do you? I love how Keith Ellison as a Muslim POC works in our congress to push progressive solutions for many different issues, and at the same time is also conscious of these social justices issues for both POC and Muslim Americans too.
In general, I think we should all push extra hard to bring attention to the issues that we feel more personally affected by, since we are more of a voice of knowledge and experience of those issues, and it does personally affect us too. But I like to try and put issues I care about a lot in context with a lot of other issues and try to help bing people together where we can all work together on the different issues we face when we can find common ground with them. I think those who support Bernie I've found most willing to take this approach, which is why I get concerned when others try to demonize them for reasons that don't seem very obvious to us. Like every crowd, there's always going to be a few that don't work with others well, and perhaps are out of step at times with the notion that we should all be working together and lash out at others when they shouldn't. But they are a minority, and I think we all should be careful not to identify so many others with the actions of a few people that don't try to represent an image of those working with others to solve problems mutually.
Many of us didn't like how we were categorized in that way by a few individuals in Seattle, but I and most of those others tried to make the effort that we didn't identify the whole group of BLM with the mistakes made there, and that I have nothing but admiration and support for many in that movement standing up to cops dressed up as military with their hands up risking their lives to try and force some change. I just hope that many of you see that we all want to help support that happening. Please don't push us away and please let's get beyond categorizing each others with names and labels.
McKim
(2,412 posts)Yes, Turd Way is not polite, but it is effective when you are out there talking to real people. I am done being polite in some ways as
our problems in this country have become more acute due to greed which is well defended by the Third Way.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Vincardog
(20,234 posts)Buying their BULL$HIT anymore and now they has a sad.
frylock
(34,825 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)FIFY.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)how you asked.
frylock
(34,825 posts)don't come to me with this shit that I TOLD you what to do. Not playing this bullshit game.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)FTS.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Third Way Democrats of the think tank variety are to the Right of the Third Way Progressives on Economics. They are mirror twins.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Third Way acquiesces to social justice because it costs them NOTHING. It doesn't effect the bottom line, and that's ALL the Third Way cares about. And I'm so fucking tired of your misrepresentation of people that took exception to #bowdownbernie and being labeled as "liberal white supremacists" as not caring about social justice. Weak fucking sauce. How would you feel if someone told Obama to bow down?!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They do not know you to have called you such. Why did you think it was about you? That is the problem. No one bothered to Google 'Seattle+whitesupremacy', otherwise they might have been able to find out why they called the crowd attending the event such, especially since they said it after cries of 'TAZE THEM'.
As far as that hashtag... It did not actually take off and I have no idea who wrote it, not man people went along with it if they did because I did not see it once. Except here from you guys. If you google it, not much comes up aside from complaints from bernie supporters. I think you guys gave it more traction than it deserved and way more meaning.
People have called obama 'piece of shit used car saleman' here and many who now support Bernie were very pleased with it, but now want all respect and adoration towards Bernie. Funny that. And they are rude to many black posters causing us to mostly go away.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They didn't just talk. They tweeted too.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)WTF are you talking about?
Turd way is just renaming DLC BLue Dogs
bravenak
(34,648 posts)tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)The Third Way is okay with certain progressive social issues because it generally doesn't affect their corporate buddie's abilities of making a profit. It's economic progressivism that they want to quash.
The last thing they want to do is level the economic playing field.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)So YES! I made up a term for it! Yes!!! I did it!! Guilty!!!
It fits.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Is that those who are proponents of economic justice, automatically are soft on social justice? That's just silly on so many levels.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I see it all the time. Did you see the pie crust thing? I said, why should I get crusts while you eat pie, theh said, the crust is the best part! Like I'm stupid. No. I want pie too. I do not want to be told to be satisfied with their crusts because I am black and female. That is a third way progressive. If it is not you the do not be bothered.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)But, let me make one other point. I agree with you that economic justice and social justice are two separate things. At the same time, the two are intimately linked: Economic justice helps realize social justice, and social justice helps realize economic justice. The two are connected in many ways.
And, no, I am not saying that economic justice addresses all social justice issues
It certainly does not.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)One won't fix the other, but I think social justice will make opportunity more equal and distribution of benefits more equal.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)it's like they are mutually exclusive concepts or something.
What I thought even more preposturous is the proposition that the alleged softness on the part of the Bernie camp is born of some gradeschool level jealousy over what the TWers are doing, or not.
That was the case made, at least by my deconstruction of that post.
I see it as support for the point the OPer was making, because "desperation" and "panic" certainly "fit" as a partial but likely whole explanation for such "arguments".
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)She knows very well that it is silly. She's just upset that Bernie Sanders supporters don't except being labeled racist or white supremacist. She's trying to get us all sent on vacation.
stupidicus
(2,570 posts)you've merely baselessly declared and haven't a prayer of demonstrating for the BS camp, is some kinda collective schoolyard-level reaction to turd weighers using their acquiescence to social reforms as a means of furthering their greed/corporatism? They ain't ALL bad, eh, like their rightwing cousins?
What is it exactly -- Bernie is a softie on social justice reforms because turd weighers aren't, or because he has to be hard on econ justice, while they aren't? This has to be one of the most laughable uses of "jealously" I've ever seen...lol
You should do a top post about this, and explain how it is socioeconomic can really only exist in the bifurcated state of econ or social justice, and you can only pick and act upon one as the turd weighers alone have done it appears.
Hell, any other humorous conspiracy theory of like kind will be appreciated.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)it doesn't matter who/what group the target of your conspiratorial effort is, the entire effort is flawed for the reasons stated/argued.
Gee what's next -- that Bernie being "soft" on issues that the AA community want addressed, hasn't been/isn't the charge?
If anyone is or has been soft on anyone or a group, I'd say it is you with your "third Way progressive" label. The "progressive" part of it gives them moral currency they've neither earned nor deserve, and is really more than anything else as far as I can tell, an effort to polish the third way turd. http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/15-ways-bill-clintons-white-house-failed-america-and-world
you weren't talking about Bernie like you aren't a HC supporter
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)any more than there is any such thing as a married bachelor. The term is an oxymoron.
What the Third Way (DLC/New Democrats) do is try to merge trickle down or supply-side economics, which is a colossal failure from the Reagan administration, with tradition Democratic concepts of social justice for racial minorities, women and sexual minorities. There is no way that one can have social equality or social justice while giving special privileges for artificial persons and the billionaires behind them, which has evolved to mean the right of banks to rob their costumers and the right of industrial polluters to trash the planet and pass the costs of cleaning up their mess on directly to the public sector. It doesn't work.
It also means that corporate interests have the right to aggressively suppress their employees who seek higher wages and better working conditions. There is no social justice in that. That kind of social injustice is a direct result of economic injustice. Whether you believe it or not that means that you and I will be together in the same leaky boat.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You are talking third way dems. I am talking brogressives.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)Using the term doesn't make one.
Please define brogressive. Thank you.
As you might suppose, I know a number a white liberals and what the BLM movement have to say about them, while an overgeneraliztion, isn't at all off the mark. I know quite a few who are well-meaning but utterly clueless. I'm at least enough aware of that to second guess myself whenever I open my mouth. Listening is a very good defense against ignorance.
I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X when I was in high school (1967-70), living in a lilly-white suburb of Los Angeles. That was a real eye-opener. I was amazed at the difference between the Malcolm portrayed in white popular culture and the Malcolm in his autobiography. I would mark my reading of that book as a major milestone in my path to being a progressive rather than a wishy-washy liberal. I got a few clues reading it. Anybody who hasn't read it really should. Another book I read about the same that also woke me up was Black Power by Charles V. Hamilton and Stokely Carmichael. Once again, there was what the white media said about the black power movement and there was what a book co-authored by Stokely Carmichael himself had to say about it. I stopped thinking that it was some kind of black racist reaction to the injustice of white racism and began thinking of it as something of which I had nothing to fear and something that even merited my personal support.
Reading those books was a valuable lesson in learning how other Americans live and think and also in how not to trust everything I hear and read in the media.
Those were good lessons to learn.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I can invent terns as I please if they apply and I define it. Trust that I can.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Third Way = Conservative, period and they are proud of it! They despise Progressives.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)when you start agreeing with lewebley3 I can no longer take you seriously.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)But, our country was founded by those that weren't loyalists.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I doubt that would have changed the history of slavery here much since England also allowed slavery at the time.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Since freedom was given for joining the red coats, yeah, Ida joined them with bells on.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)It is not too late to join them you know.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I guess Had I been there I should have fought for my right to be General Washington's slave, then?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)What issues do you think Hillary will lead the way for you on? I am being serious. I really do not understand why anyone would support her and nobody here has given me a good reason no matter how many times I ask. What will Hillary do for you or people you care about or people in general?
coyote
(1,561 posts)I have no idea why any self-proclaimed progressive or democrat, for that matter, would vote for her. I have not seen any Clinton supporter discuss the issues, but rather totally ignore them.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)and none noteworthy. Will keep trying because I would really like to know.
Here is my latest attempt or failure: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251741180#post3
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Never. It is very revealing and lets me know to run from them fast as possible and let them know what I think about it on the way out. I would suggest they never do that if they do not want stuff like black folks running away to happen next time they find the best liberal ever.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)All I asked was why you were voting for Hillary. Are you saying you are voting for her because 'white' people called you a racist?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)They were mad at the young women for calling out Seattle for white supremacy. If they were not white, why the anger? Next, I was voting for Bernie, until a self described fan sent me hate mail to my home. That shows the culture within his movement. I felt unsafe with his group after that, had to go to my storage and arm myself. I have never felt like going to pull my rifle out of storage before. But I have children and stalking me to my home is very out of the ordinary. Next, the amount of white posters who felt it was their duty to bring down BLM, they were all from Bernie's side. Plus, white folks calling me racist while they are the beneficiaries of white supremacy? If they believe that they'll believe anything. If I called just one of them a racist in such nasty descriptive and bald terms, they would still be posting ops about it. I said 'white ass crowds', and they went balistic, but they can call me race baiter, racist, race nagger, Stockholm syndrome victim, etc, and see nothing wrong with the double standard. So, why? Why not? I know I won't get hate mail from Hillary supporters, I know they don't call me names or describe they entirety of the AA population as stockholm syndrome victims. I know that.
I know that telling Bernie fans what they are doing wrong merits harassment. I know what they did to John Lewis' facebook page, schooling him on civil rights. I know many have white privilege and use it and use it and then some use it against me by force of numbers ganging up.
Nobody cares enough about the fact that hundreds to thousands of blacks have complained by blogging, tweeting, tweeting Sanders, telling his fans to please leave them alone about Dr King, black folks know our history better than them. There is such disfunction and a complete unwillingness to address it other than to say, 'it's just the internet!!' But it isn't. It happens in person too. By mail. Via email. Nobody will do anything about it, so please tell me why the heck black folks should join a revolution that treats us like THAT?
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)It is obvious that that some people here aren't really interested in the truth or justice.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)And perhaps not coincidentally, Obama at least started to become more progressive when Bill Daley left town.
He had too many campaign staffers that were from the DLC/third way mindset. He had been sold on that by some in the party that encouraged it for the sake of party unity.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)He campaigned as a progressive, but he ruled as a conservative.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)And it creates the impression that there is no way you can take the presidency without selling out to the third way sorts.
Personally I think that a lot of pundits, and experts, and lobbyists talked him into putting these people into his administration. I think it was a mistake that he took too long to correct.
I still think president Obama had very good intentions.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)really in charge explained reality to him. The NSA/CIA explained that they had personnel and programs in place that was keeping the country safe and he best not mess with that. I think the economists gave him the same talk. Not really direct threats.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)It isn't. Not even close.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And Clinton supporters seem to be quite confident. I have never been big into sci-fi.
The Turd Way. lol. There is some elementary school playground shit. Next thing you know people will start promoting McCain and other wingers thoughts here in support of their candidate. Then we will know panic and desperation.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)To respond to the use of "turd way"?
Sheesh
Yeah, it's rather sophomorish humor, but it's been used on DU for years.
Give it a rest
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Because the only way I've heard Bernie and McCain linked was on support of veterans.
Every time you attack Bernie through McCain you're attacking support for veterans. You do understand that right? But by all means keep going with that line of attack.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Democrats have dropped the ball on veterans issues for years. When they want to tear into Bernie for crossing the divide with McCain, to get veterans what they have earned, it makes my blood boil.
I hope every last one of them collapse under the weight of their own bile.
frylock
(34,825 posts)that Bernie is incapable of working with Congress. I mean make up your fucking mind!
StrongBad
(2,100 posts)By that logic, do you agree with a notion claiming "The Rise of Donald Trump"? Because he's about 10 points higher than Bernie on the Republican side.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)It's difficult to get people to listen to what you're saying when you start off with juvenile insults (i.e. 'turd' instead of 'third').
The article, on the other hand, is very good and worth ready. Thanks for posting it.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)want us to follow their pathetic lead again and I say Fuck That!
"We must garner conservative votes too, for the win!"
And we lost big time yet real progressive legislation won big.
Let them yell, kick, and scream like spoiled fucking kids.
This ends with Bernie.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)They know very well that Third Way Centrist policy is losing down ticket races. They don't care. They only care about the WH. The executive branch of the government that keeps the money flowing into their pockets. They throw us a social bone once in awhile to keep us in line.
I say: Wake up and rise up.
Enough is enough. Go Bernie.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)AGW is likely gonna heat up our politics faster than the planet, and those dinosaurs will not be able to adapt or survive in their current form.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)admitted being the ones to convince President Obama and the people working on ACA to take the public option out? That is not something I would brag about.
As to 2014 Democrats did not turn up at the polls.
This is the best indictment of a group that I have ever read. And they outright admit they did not support President Obama in because he appeared populist.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)The Democrats who did not vote in 2014.
One of the main reasons: they were smart enough to understand that when the meme is "Lesser of two evils" then just what is the damn point?
A political group can destroy the middle class bit by bit or a different political group can destroy it over night, but if in ten years, survival for the middle class has been cut away, what difference does it make which group did it?
jwirr
(39,215 posts)still active then I think it matters.
What I see happening right now is a real split in how people in the party think. I do not know what the future is for our party but I do know that this has to be acknowledged. I see the split as DLC vs FDR Democrats. FDR as in policies that worked to make our nation stronger.
And you are correct those who did not go to the polls in 2014 were not interested in more of the same. They are giving us the same choice this time.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)passed. Americans are receiving letters ending or lessening the ACA health care and a rise in the cost of Medicare without a rise in Social Security benefit checks.
We have corporatist insurance companies screwing Americans over 2016 Healthcare. Did I leave out, we have New Democrats screwing Americans in 2015-16, like they did in 2013-14.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)sounded populist. Much of what he has done from the start is corporatist and by 2014 that was clear.
In 2014 the election showed a real dissatisfaction with business as usual and that meant DLC centrist ideas. We are even more sick of them now. And yes I know TPTB do not seem to see that at all. Even the Unions.
frylock
(34,825 posts)which is why we're not falling for Populist Hillary.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)To the detriment of us all.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Vote Bernie!!
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I think you should delete that graphic, Segami...it's not nice and it's about one of our Democratic candidates running for office now. I don't really think it's necessary to call Clinton a Turd on DU.
There are nicer ways to get your point across.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Without any apology, I think the whole of the Third Way, right along with the GOP, is one giant load of crap.
I'm sorry if that wasn't nice enough. I could use a lot of pretty flowery language to say that, but I doubt those the message was meant for would get it.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)where I thought we were supposed to treat democratic candidates with some modicum of respect, even if we don't agree with them. After all, they could end up being our POTUS.
Maybe I read the rules wrong, or maybe it's OK to start posting ugly crap graphics of the two main contestants in the battle for POTUS.
Are you OK with Hillary supporters doing that to Bernie?
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Do you think Hillary supporters are ever going to be nice?
It's the Third Way along with the GOP that is killing us. I want to crush them both. Hillary just happens to be the Third Way candidate.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Calling him shit, crap, turd.
Sorry...you don't pass go. You don't collect $200.
I guess we could always just say it's OK to act like that, and we both start flinging poo. It seems that is what some people really want here. Funny how Bernie is not up for that.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Bernie is a real gentleman and class act. All that gets him is poo flung at him. Well that and millions of supporters. Millions of supporters who will react to every bit of poo flung.
They are not called Turd Wayers for no reason. Live by the turd, die by the turd.
I won't molly-coddle them anymore.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Some around here call Clinton a liar, murderer, or whore on a weekly basis, but start clutching pearls whenever someone so much as uses Sanders' initials.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Bryce Butler
(338 posts)On Thu Oct 29, 2015 an alert was sent on the following post:
The Rise Of Bernie Sanders And The PANIC Of The Third Way Democratic Centrists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251741918
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
That graphic is highly offensive. The poster could have made his/her point without the offensive photograph.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 29, 2015, 04:17 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The true can hurt those who act like they're blind
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The alerter needs to grow up.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is GD-P. Alerter needs to toughen up a lot. I see no reason to hide this.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The article is good so I voted to leave it, the graphic is not needed.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The graphic is intended to offend, but it's the language, the "turd" way bit that offends me. I don't like things like repuke or libtard either. Words meant to inflame. I hate to see DUers beating up each other. You can disagree without doing that.It's the main reason I trashed GDP.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm totally fine and not offended in the least with it.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Segami
(14,923 posts)Thanks....
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)That if you trash a forum you shouldn't be getting jury notifications for postings in that forum.
DownriverDem
(6,227 posts)Nov 2016 is all that counts. A Dem win must happen.
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)the minds of the unwashed masses
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Just imagine what it could do to the established social order, not to mention profit. Can't have it! [URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)I love the GAAH simile!
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)It's so rough being on the side of frontrunner.
Rest assured though, once she's the candidate, we'll welcome all of you with sense enough to want to see the US continue the great progressive move forward the President Obama has started.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)You don't find that s wee bit selfish? Do you think it is really well thought out? Do you think you will still be doing well when all is said and done? Food for thought.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)would be the ones starting multiple anti-Hillary threads every day.
Sid
Segami
(14,923 posts)Here,....let me help...Just for you!
That should help ease the tummy cramps.......
BootinUp
(47,138 posts)malokvale77
(4,879 posts)Looks like your thread got hijacked right from the start.
The Party (thanks to the Clintons and a bunch of 1%ers) steered all the effort and money to the WH. Local democrats were left floundering. The GOP played the long game and have taken over many once dependable Democratic seats, from the local level all the way to DC.
This has nothing to do with political platforms, and everything to do with (in Bernie's words) an oligarchy.
PatrickforO
(14,570 posts)Remember that the Third Way corporatist wing of the Democratic Party has been powerful since the early 1990s. My take on this is that Democrats hold the fewest offices since 1928 because of twenty five years of Third Way corporatism. They aren't even real Democrats. They are to the right of Eisenhower Republicans.
Free trade, cutting 'entitlements,' deregulating Wall Street, no single payer - these are EXACTLY the reason why Democrats have systematically been losing seats.
If our candidates start talking like real New Deal Democrats, then we'll start GAINING seats. Why? Because according to numerous polls, Bernie Sanders' positions are ALL favored by a majority of the American people. Even single payer.
That's why we need to ignore all the bullshit lies and distortions from the mainstream media, the ridicule from the establishment, the whole 'rat-fucking' thing, and KEEP ON WORKING TO ELECT BERNIE!!!
Forget those skewed polls. They have all the money but we each have one vote. Let's use our votes to make this country a better place for once. Let's vote in our own interests instead of Halliburton's and the Koch brothers'.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)K&R
quickesst
(6,280 posts)...and mine won't matter, but I feel compelled to contribute for selfish reasons. Here it is......
"The PANIC Of The Third Way Democratic Centrists"
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)quickesst
(6,280 posts)👍sounds good.
FloridaBlues
(4,007 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)brooklynite
(94,489 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)I am sure there are, as there probably are for Hillary but I doubt anyone here is going to search them out for you, so if this is your gotcha moment while the earth, people and nature are dying due to human greed and ignorance go for it.
brooklynite
(94,489 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:42 AM - Edit history (1)
merrily
(45,251 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/110723972
Lone Star State Poll -Hillary Clinton 59% Bernie Sanders 10%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251736969
Palmetto State Poll-Clinton -43% Sanders 6% 0'Malley 3%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251734319
International Longshoremen's Association to endorse Hillary Clinton this Saturday
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251735010
Loras College Poll (IOWA) - Clinton 62% Bernie Sanders 24% Martin O'Malley 3%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251733510
Clinton is rising in North Carolina
PPP's new North Carolina poll finds Hillary Clinton with her largest lead in the state since May. 61% of Democrats in the state support Clinton to 24% for Bernie Sanders
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110723689
BREAKING: New Loras poll gives Hillary 38 point lead over Sanders in Iowa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251732960
Two new polls give HRC huge leads in Iowa
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251732917
BREAKING: Senator Sherrod Brown Endorses Hillary Clinton for President.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251732053
Key Union Endorses Clinton - AFSCME
http://www.democraticunderground.com/110722738
Clinton Holds Massive Lead in Iowa
October 27, 2015By Taegan Goddard
A new Monmouth University Poll in Iowa finds Hillary Clinton with a huge lead over Bernie Sanders, 65% to 24%, with Martin OMalley at 5% and Lawrence Lessig at 4%.
Key findings: Clinton enjoys a large lead over Sanders among both male (55% to 33%) and female (73% to 16%) voters. She also has an edge across the ideological spectrum, leading among voters who are very liberal (57% to 34%), somewhat liberal (68% to 22%), and moderate (69% to 19%).
A new Loras College poll finds Clinton leading Sanders, 65% to 24%, with OMalley at 3%.
http://politicalwire.com/2015/10/27/clinton-holds-massive-lead-in-iowa/
The only panic I see here is coming from berniebros who knows polls and endorsements like the above spell doom for Bernie.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Thank you, Segami.
stonecutter357
(12,695 posts)Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)"Paychecks can be cancelled, ya know . . . even yours!"
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Some work towards a better future for all, some only for themselves and the CEO's they feel more affinity with than the downtrodden masses suffering under corporate rule.
Theft of democracy, theft of the commons, theft of futures, theft of change.
The more weight at the top, the more crushing the burden on those at the bottom.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)This whole thread says it all if you read it objectively. Now your team is pushing woman away like you did blm and AA in the summer. If your team wouldn't push your candidate in this manner maybe more people would be inclined to support him. How you approach people is not by insulting them and then acting victimized when they point out said insults.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)DFW
(54,335 posts)If I recall correctly, it got an appropriate response back then.
Must be some end of the month thing--this and nothing but regurgitated posts by H.A. Goodman, as in "Why President Rand Paul Will Keep America Safer Than Bush, Obama, and Hillary Clinton." THAT H.A. Goodman.
I doubt Bernie would approve. He's SO much better than this.
snort
(2,334 posts)loaded with jackasses one and all. Whomever our candidate of choice may be, I hope that they are not like us.
Mrs. Clinton leads in every poll. I do not believe that any of us are the slightest bit panicked.
Sanders is a great person, just happens to be my second choice for president, there's nothing wrong with that. I wish hi supporters were a little less demonizing of HRC supporters. We're all in the tent together here, y'know.
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)You know the saying "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win"?
Well we're three quarters of the way to winning.
Economic populism is the perfect wedge issue and is getting attention.....finally.
Of course we expect the plutocrats on the right to fight us, but the ones on the "left" from the third-way are even more strident; but the hell with them anyway. The issue stands out enough on its own to turn us hoi-polloi against the elitists. They have the $$ but we have the numbers.
Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)and the few that weren't were corporate CEO's
d_legendary1
(2,586 posts)NonMetro
(631 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid