Was Hillary Being Sexist When She Claimed to be a Victim of Men Shouting her Down?

[sabrina 1]

Since there was zero truth to her implications re Bernie, and assuming she is an intelligent woman, why would she make such a claim?

It's obvious she is one of the most privileged, powerful, wealthy women in the country, so playing the victim isn't very believable.

My answer is 'yes'!

It was extremely sexist, 'using one's gender to garner sympathy or gain political advantage'.

I'm trying to figure out what advantage politically there might be for a woman running for elected office to claim victimhood because of their gender.

I see that her remark has turned into a 'talking point' despite how untrue her claim was, by using the word 'sexist' to imply that her opponent is a 'sexist'.

Since that is obviously false, doesn't that add to the distaste originated by her claim, by showing a willingness on the part of her campaign to spread false memes regarding her opponents?

And before anyone jumps all over the notion that a woman cannot be sexist, YES THEY CAN!

How about the candidates just stick to the issues which is what the American people are interested in?

Issues like what are they going to do about rescinding the awful Welfare Reform Bill eg?

We know where Sanders stands on the legislation and we know that the last we heard from Hillary on the legislation she was totally supportive of it.

But since it has done what was predicted, plunged more women and children into poverty, has she changed her mind on her longtime support for it?

I think people are more interested in that, than in the personal feelings of candidates.

[CharlotteVale]

1. I still don't get why the word "shouting" has any gender connotation at all.

The only candidate I can think of whose campaign was derailed by shouting was Howard Dean and he's a man! Would it be reverse sexism to call him a shouter?!

I am a woman, and I think it makes Hillary looks weak when she pulls this shit. It makes her look as if she can't answer the argument (or she can, but not to give a straight answer) so she resorts to this phony victimhood. It makes me wonder what word she'll claim is out of bounds next.

And if she keeps it up, she'll just look like Wendy Whiner instead of a strong candidate.

[sabrina 1]

5. I don't either. It was phony, it sounded like an act, 'poor me I'm a woman and they shout me down'.

Like all the other negative talking points that have been tried, it has backfired. Her supporters would be better off dropping it because so long as they keep trying to dredge up a false meme re Bernie, it just reminds people that maybe a woman who feels so put upon by politicians speaking loudly to packed audiences, isn't ready to be the first woman president of this country.

That's what it reminds me of each time I see them dragging up old talking points that haven't gone anywhere.

And of course Bernie's campaign is excellent at responding to the negativity coming from Hillary's campaign.

See the $3 million dollars David Brock's backfired attempt to plant false memes in the media raised for Bernie.

Sometimes you have to let things go especially when they are hurting your own cause.

I want the first women president of this country to be free of the old 'women are victims' routine.

[Dont call me Shirley]

23. I suspect the "shouting" attack, which was brought up in Iowa, was a feeble attempt at trying to

discredit Bernie by linking him to Howard Dean's Iowa "scream" aka shout. Game plan works once, do it again.

[boston bean]

28. Because it wasn't just the word, it was the sexist characterization, most women who

are familiar with.

[polly7]

32. LOL. nt.

[CharlotteVale]

40. I know sexism when I see it. Hillary cheapened the meaning

by accusing Bernie of something that he did not do.

[boston bean]

43. Hillary didn't cheapen anything. She pointed out a sexist trope.

Which makes me very happy to see someone talk about this shit.

[sabrina 1]

90. She did the same thing to Obama also 'pointed out a sexist trope'. Same thing, different campaign.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

80. Weak is a good way to put it. The problem is Hillary can't argue against Bernie on any issue on the merits...

So, of course, she has to play the sexism card.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[bvf]

2. Yes, without a doubt.

And the underlying cynicism doesn't speak well of her regard for her supporters, either.

[MuseRider]

3. I would say no.

What she thinks he said about her is something used by sexist men to shut up women and has been used for years. As a woman she has the right to be sensitive to that. In this case she is either just wrong or using something that does occur but did not occur and that would be worse.

I refuse to call any woman a sexist for stating that something that is an actual, long term problem IS a problem. I do think we need to be responsible when we use it hosever. Not everyone is speaking to us as women or speaking to us at all as in this case.

I blame her for using a real, harmful situation that we all go through to further her goal by smearing someone who did not use it against her. THAT is where I lay the blame.

[sabrina 1]

6. When a woman is willing to falsely imply sexism against an opponent for a job, that makes ALL women

look bad.

Women want equality, not SPECIAL treatment. To me, your post implies that women should be treated differently from men EVEN whe they are being deceptive.

I don't know a single female who wants that.

Hillary KNEW she was making stuff up regarding Bernie and that is AS reprehensible and SEXIST for a woman to do, as it is for a man.

She is not victim, and Bernie is no sexist.

I truly wish we could end this 'anything a woman does is okay because they are a woman' nonsense, It so diminishes and discredits all women.

[MuseRider]

9. No, not at all and I am sorry you saw it that way.

Look, I have been at this stuff for 50 years or so. I KNOW and I agree. I was not giving her an out, I was actually calling her a liar rather than a sexist.

If Bernie had said this TO her then yes he was sexist but he is not a sexist and was not speaking to her or about her personally as you know.

I would prefer to label her a liar rather than a sexist and here is why. It happens all the time that some men will make that very comment about yelling or screaming or raising your voice. She is correct that that is something that is used against women making a point. Calling her sexist now for pointing that out will surely then be used as women being sexist when we say that making the point useless for us. It is a thing, a big thing and she has just made it a smaller thing by using it incorrectly.

We agree here. Where have you ever seen me post that Bernie was sexist? She is not a victim and I do not know how you got that from what I wrote. Please read it again, it is entirely possible I wrote it in a manner that would have you see this but I did not say that in any way, shape or form. We totally agree except I don't think she was being sexist but I DO think she was using a real thing (that did not happen to her in this instance) to gain an advantage, that I prefer to call lying.

Now, this will probably be hidden for calling her a liar but please read. I was in the exact same space you are in except for calling her a sexist.

[sabrina 1]

13. Sorry then, I misunderstood you and apologize. What I keep in mind now is that Hillary has

tons of money and Super Pacs that are being used to smear Bernie Sanders, we saw David Brock's exposed eg.

I tend to focus ONLY on the actions and words without bringing in the real history of women which is exactly what she wants.

Iow, she did lie implicitly, see Uncle Joe's post below eg. That is all we need to talk about.

What the smear campaigners, like Brock try to do is take a word out, in this case 'sexism' and tie it to our candidate. They are not interested in how it is tied, just get those two words together.

We should never use the word 'sexist' and our candidate's name together.

They are vile deceptive people, Brock eg and all those who hang around campaigns making money, like Rove et al.

I saw you post, saw the word they WANT us to use in connection with his name, and reacted, I am sorry for that

We don't have money and Super Pac paid for smear campaigners, thankfully. Nor are we organized to stop the smears. But we can turn these deceptions AGAINST them when we see them.

That is what they deserve. We saw what these tactics did to so many good Democrats. This time people have to expose them, and if they want to continue to do this rather than talk about issues, then THEY make themselves FAIR GAME to have their own dirty tricks turned against them.

Again, I AM sorry

[MuseRider]

14. Not a problem

I completely agree with you. It is disgusting but certainly expected. There will be more. Bernie is smart, I believe he tends to think and speak inclusively and because he does not always single out a specific group it is used against him as him not caring about those issues. He has picked that up and is much much better at that now. Still, the original complaints remain open and no matter what he does it will never stop those who play the game of smearing. I wonder what is next?

[boston bean]

29. What woman is falsely implying sexism?

[demmiblue]

64. +1

[questionseverything]

4. or issues like the continued failed war on mj

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/a-president-bernie-sanders-could-end-the-federal-marijuana-ban-without-congress-heres-how/comments/#disqus

half a million people in jail for simple possession and hc wants to continue it/

[Live and Learn]

7. Yes. nt

[Uncle Joe]

8. Hillary never voiced offense in real time during the debate, it took two weeks before she started

playing the gender card.

Why Did It Take Two Weeks For This To Bubble Up?

Clinton didn't initially imply the "shouting" comment was sexist. In San Antonio, Texas, two days after the debate, Clinton first talked about that moment in the debate in a speech. However, she didn't imply that Sanders had told her to stop shouting, because she was a woman.

"Now, I've been told by some to quit talking about this, to quit shouting about this. And I'll tell you right now, I will not be silenced, and we will not be silenced. We must continue to speak out," Clinton said to cheers.

It was only a week later, that Clinton added the line about some people hearing shouting when a woman speaks her mind. The revised line got significantly more attention and led to a week of discussions about sexism.

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/01/453663625/is-it-fair-to-accuse-bernie-sanders-of-sexism

This was just cynical political calculation on Hillary's part.

Thanks for the thread, sabrina.

[CharlotteVale]

10. "Cynical political calculation" = Bingo!

[sabrina 1]

11. Wow, I hadn't seen that, thanks Uncle Joe. Makes me cringe as a woman. So many women who ARE BEING

SILENCED, and to see someone with the biggest microphone in the world claiming ANYONE is silencing her, is simply ludicrous.

I have some photos of women who have been PERMANENTLY silenced by the wars she supported in their countries.

Worse, of the little children, boys, girls who will never speak again and for whom few are speaking for.

And the women who lost their safety net due to Hillary's support for the dreadful, poverty inducing Welfare Bill.

It is phony,, sounds phony, and only reminds me personally of all the women and children who have no voices at all due to many of the policies Hillary has supported.

[Uncle Joe]

12. That's a good and most profound post as well, sabrina.

[MuseRider]

15. Perfect. n/t

[Armstead]

18. Good catch. Her original distortion was bad enough since she has said the same thing

Clinton has also said the national conversation has been too divisive and polarizing and that she wants the nation to calm down and reach a concensus on guns.

But setting that aside, it is enlightening that she chose to add that little "Bernie the sexist" zinger later on.

[progree]

36. "I've been told to stop, and, I quote, 'shouting about gun violence.' It's just, when women talk...

The day after her Benghazi Committee testimony, the former Secretary of State added a new line to her stump speech.

[font color = blue]"I've been told to stop, and, I quote, 'shouting about gun violence.' Well, first of all, I'm not shouting," Clinton said to laughter at Democratic Party event in Washington, D.C. "It's just, when women talk, some people think we're shouting."[/font]

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/01/453663625/is-it-fair-to-accuse-bernie-sanders-of-sexism

[Uncle Joe]

48. The Democratic Debate was Oct. 13th the Benghazi Hearing was Oct 22nd, so Hillary first

started interjecting gender 10 days after the event, thanks for the correction, it wasn't two weeks, but it doesn't alter the point.

Hillary voiced no offense in real time during the debate but waited for 10 days before she started cynically using political manipulation on the gun issue by interjecting gender.

[sabrina 1]

77. And when men talk apparently some people think they are sexist apparently.

[hootinholler]

58. When you don't have the issues

You do what you can I guess.

[thesquanderer]

16. I agree she is "'using one's gender to garner sympathy or gain political advantage"

though I can't say that I see that as sexism per se (i.e. prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination against a gender).

[Armstead]

21. "Vote for me because I'm male and I'm stronger than my female opponent who is weak"

That would be sexism, akin to what Clinton is saying.

[sabrina 1]

92. She did the same thing to Obama. No one saw the sexism then either. Seems to be a pattern.

Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 12:12 PM - Edit history (1)

[thesquanderer]

95. She is trying to use her gender to her advantage, I agree.

One may or may not find that to be an objectionable strategy, but I would not say it is a sexist one, based on my understanding of the word sexist.

Accussing someone of being sexist is not, in itself, sexist (regardless of whether the accusation is true or false)... however, when the accusation is known by the accuser to be false, I think there is a different word for it... sleazy. But then, accusing your opponent of things you yourself don't believe to be true is about the oldest game there is when it comes to politics.

[jalan48]

17. It is humorous to hear someone from the .1% play the gender card.

[SCantiGOP]

19. No

Very simply, no, OP is wrong and doing nothing to advance his/her cause.

[sabrina 1]

89. Was Obama wrong when he responded to Hillary doing the same thing, 'playing the victim'

in 2008? Same game it appears, use gender to undermine male opponents.

So this is not the first time Hillary tried to paint herself as a victim.

Where am I wrong? There's no doubt she played the game, AGAIN, now with Bernie. The question was 'is it sexist' to do this.

[tblue]

20. Bernie has supported rights for women his entire life

Stop lying about Bernie, Mme Secretary, and I'll stop telling the truth about you.

[JTFrog]

22. I'm sure some here will make that claim.

But those same folks often dismiss any claims of sexism or misogyny until suddenly they want to claim someone they really really really don't like is sexist.

It's frustrating and hard to take seriously.

[sabrina 1]

25. Well we're not talking about anyone BUT Hillary here. She made a statement that was

then picked up by smear campaigners and turned into a would-be talking point intended to paint Bernie as something he is not.

There are all kinds of people in the world who say one thing or another. None of them are running for the office of the Presidency.

The question is, is the attempt to paint Sanders as something he most certainly is NOT, by her campaign, right or wrong?

And is it sexist to use gender, regardless of the gender of the person, when they choose this path to try to score political points?

That's the only question here. My answer is 'yes' and it should be beneath a woman and her campaign to play these games.

It was false, period.

[boston bean]

31. You could look at it from the other direction. Using sexist tropes and characterizations

to score political points.

Hell, women have been experiencing this for forever. But hey, let's just forget that relevant fact.

[sabrina 1]

91. So both Obama AND Bernie were being sexist? When a powerful, wealthy woman

makes it a practice to imply that her opponents are sexists, people begin to roll their eyes. As Obama said at the time, 'it's not the kind of thing we expect from someone running for President'.

No, it's not. We need strong leadership in this country. To do this for NO REASON, because neither Obama or Bernie were being sexist. It so discredits her and undermines women who really are victims of sexism. Totally diminishes them.

[George II]

24. Do you have an actual QUOTE from her saying that she said. ...

...she was a "victim" of men shouting her down?

[passiveporcupine]

33. from two days after the debate, in San Antonio

"Now, I've been told by some to quit talking about this, to quit shouting about this. And I'll tell you right now, I will not be silenced, and we will not be silenced. We must continue to speak out," Clinton said to cheers.

It was only a week later, that Clinton added the line about some people hearing shouting when a woman speaks her mind.

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/01/453663625/is-it-fair-to-accuse-bernie-sanders-of-sexism
This link was posted upthread by Uncle Joe.

Is that good enough George? She doesn't say 'men' shouted her down, but it's implied she is referring to Bernie.

[JonLeibowitz]

37. More than heavily implied. She even used "and I quote..." in one speech. That's a full assault. n/t

[George II]

38. Thanks for the help, passiveporcupine, but no it's not "good enough" - in fact......

.....it just confirms the reality that she never did what the subject line of the OP claimed, which was:

"She Claimed to be a Victim of Men Shouting her Down." NEVER HAPPENED.

She never claimed to be a victim of men shouting her down, her only reference to "shouting" is about HER who was the one that was shouting.

Amazing how you can pull up that quote and say it "implied" that she was the victim of being shouted down.

Care to give it another go? And I really was hoping to hear from the person who made the bogus claim to see where SHE got that "meme" from.

[JonLeibowitz]

39. See post 37. Who else could she be quoting? n/t

[George II]

41. Don't know. You posted "and I quote", so I presume you know and perhaps have the rest of...

....the "quote"????

[JonLeibowitz]

42. Your full quote

CLINTON: I’ve been told to stop, and I quote, "shouting about gun violence." Well, first of all, I'm not shouting. It's just when women talk some people think we're shouting.

TAPPER: You’re the one she’s quoting, Senator Sanders. She is suggesting in public that you have a problem with women speaking out.

Is Jake Tapper wrong? Why hasn't the Clinton campaign corrected the record (They even have a superPAC to do that!) if Jake Tapper was wrong?

Source:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/10/25/bernie_sanders_laughs_off_hillary_clintons_sexism_accusation_what_can_i_say.html

[sabrina 1]

70. Who told her to 'stop'?

[passiveporcupine]

45. Whie I agree that the title of the OP is incorrect

as nobody "shouted" her down...the point is that she is accusing Bernie if telling her to stop talking about it, which he never did. And she is accusing him of saying she was shouting, which she wasn't, and he was not referring to her with that part of his statement.

Bernie almost always sounds like he's shouting, so I suspect that is where the title came from...you'd have to ask Sabrina, but that's the way it strikes me. Because he sounded like he was shouting and Clinton said "I've been told to stop talking about this" (which never happened), it can be construed that she was saying Bernie tried to shout her down.

[HassleCat]

26. Can we stop here, please?

Before Clinton supporters respond that it's sexist of Sanders supporters to suggest Clinton is sexist when she complains about Sanders being sexist by mentioning shouting. Then Sanders supporters will have say it's sexist of Clinton supporters to respond that it's sexist of... Oh, man. My head is hurting.

[Matariki]

62. +1

Both sides are going to wake up with a terrible 'hate hangover' when this is all over.

[sabrina 1]

82. Hey, you can go back to 2008 where you will find Obama Supporters and Obama himself, admonishing

Hillary for 'playing the gender AND race card'. Seems I'm destined to be a supporter of the men Hillary implies are 'sexist'. My head is spinning, I am getting a sense of Deja Vu all over again!

I wonder, since it didn't work then, why would she do it again?

[A Simple Game]

27. Hillary loves to play the victim. It is what she does best. n/t

[eridani]

69. A lot of that is from the "vast right wing conspiracy" which happens to be real

Both Clintons have been victimized by it for more than 20 years. And they have gone after Hillary in particular in a very sexist manner. Sanders has not, and has done nothing but reaffirm Clinton's own position that people on both sides of the gun debate need to quit shouting at each other.

[orpupilofnature57]

30. Playing the gender card because she's a Woman ? No because she is by nature an opportunist, ambiguous

Heat seek missile, zoning in on sympathies and fears to evade culpability and claim credit at the same time .And why wouldn't she be adroit, a virtual morphing , ingratiating being, look at her life the last 40 yrs, a prerequisite for a quintessential demagogue, but not victim or President .

[CharlotteVale]

47. Perfect description of her and her motives.

[Blue_In_AK]

34. Results of my jury service

Mail Message
On Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:38 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Was Hillary Being Sexist When She Claimed to be a Victim of Men Shouting her Down?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251753970

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Not a discussion of the primaries. Just a rant of name-calling and personal dislike.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Nov 1, 2015, 12:55 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Of course it's about the primaries, and the post makes many valid points that I've considered myself. This is Sabrina's opinion and doesn't violate the TOS at all. The alert system isn't to be used to shut down opinions with which one doesn't agree.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Kind of marginal but not exactly over the top.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Perhaps the alerter alerted on the wrong post as there is neither name calling nor personal dislike here as they state.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.


I'm juror 1. This was a clear misuse of the alert system IMO.

[sabrina 1]

44. Wait! Someone is trying to silence me because I'm a woman? Lol, the IRONY of that alert

is beyond funny.

Thanks for posting it, Blue_In_AK!

[passiveporcupine]

46. Hey, be careful what you say...you could be called a sexist next

[sabrina 1]

53. Lol, well just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I COULDN'T be a sexist. But I definitely would

never use it for political purposes or to gain sympathy. The LAST thing I ever wanted to be was to be viewed as a victim.

I have been called a 'descendant of the enemies of women' though! Lol! I loved that one,, it was creative.

[orpupilofnature57]

54. + 1000 for Courage and Vision !!!!!!!

[sabrina 1]

74. I like your sigline, I try to live by that!

[Agschmid]

87. The perceived slight doesn't exist.

Where in that jury is someone trying to silence you because you are a woman?

It didn't happen.

[sabrina 1]

93. I wouldn't make that claim. Nor did I. I was pointing out the irony of the alert considering the

topic.

I have NEVER used being a woman to gain any advantage as I find the practice to be despicable, when completely false, as this was. Maybe I should have used the sarcasm tag but I thought it was pretty obvious I thought it was actually funny considering the topic and I, a woman, COULD, but would not, do what Hillary does, is doing and has done in her last presidential campaign

Hillary did the same thing to Obama. So apparently it is a 'tool' to use against her male opponents. And THAT angers women, because it diminishes the real issue to nothing more than a game.

[Enthusiast]

35. Kicked and recommended! No doubt. nt

[LoveIsNow]

49. Sexist? I don't know. Manipulative? Absolutely.

And she is not advancing the cause of women by using her gender as a political tool.

[sabrina 1]

75. True, but isn't sexism manipulative in itself? Using sex to manipulate someone, in this case Bernie

to me, can be called sexism. And I agree it isn't advancing the cause of women to use gender for political purposes. It really does diminish the issue to simply a political tool.

[Catherina]

50. Oh hell yes

It gives me painful flashbacks to when 2nd wave *Feminists* fighting transgender rights right here at DU were attacking 3rd wave, intersectional Feminists who supported those rights.

Ugly stuff with lots of lies, manufactured outrage and disgusting attacks. And not unsurprisingly, it's mostly the same 2nd wavers & neoliberals leading the sanctioned charge about how poor Hillary is a victim of sexism.

[polly7]

52. Remember that well.

And yes, it is many of those same people.

[azmom]

57. [phone]

[MisterP]

61. they loathe men, transsexuals, gay men, and insist that women should stick to their little sphere

and not go out into the world where swarthy types will wolf-whistle at them and molest them on the street: het sex is a dirty, dangerous, shameful near-catastrophe

the only thing that sets them apart from the Duggars is natalism and incest

[Marr]

67. I noticed that, too. /nt

[sabrina 1]

79. Yes I believe you are right. Makes you wonder, all that divisiveness AGAIN.

[Duckhunter935]

51. yes she was

and it is sad she has to do that.

[portlander23]

55. Obama to Clinton: Stop Playing the Victim

[BainsBane]

56. Yes, because men are oppressed by the matriarchy

just like white people are oppressed by black supremacy, and straight people are oppressed by homosexuality. Fox News says so; therefore it must be true.

That kind of right-wing argument is central to oppression and subjugation. Arguing that women are sexist or blacks are racist is part of the apparatus of white male power and a key trope marshalled against the non-white male majority.

Hillary Clinton didn't claim victimhood. She pointed out sexism. She didn't, for example, claim a rape victim was falling apart under the pressure of a prosecutor who, based on the victim's own complaint, sought to bring an alleged assailant to justice. She didn't claim a woman was too fragile to respond rationally to arguments, that such gendered fragility justified abusive behavior. She didn't work to pit one woman of international standing against another, in order to create an unattainable ideal type of perfection to justify shutting out women from political power. Those are all manifestations of sexism, clear efforts to hold women down. Because of the prevalence of sexism and misogyny in society, some women have learned they can gain personally advantage for themselves by working against women and gender equality as a whole. Sadly, some will always collaborate with power, and they efforts are essential in legitimating the subjugation of the many by the few. Some even show their contempt for the non-white male majority by saying, for example, that "corporations" sent women and people of color into the Democratic Party to divert it from its true purpose.

The only thing that is obvious is you are completely uninterested in the issues of the campaign--since you have pointedly refused to look at any of Clinton's policies, even when provided links--and point to any and everything what actually matters in the lives of voters, the voters you dismiss as not "real people" for failing to put the career of one politician above all else, including their basic survival. You aren't an authority on what constitutes sexism, and your proclamations that something is "obviously false" is meaningless. You insisted that the words c...t and wh...e were not sexist, words that dictionaries clearly define as insults toward women. You insist that women who object to being verbally degraded are "weak," yet you claim a man, Sanders, is victimized by a single comment about the tendency of women to be seen as shouting when they speak out.

The basic point that gender and race oppression depends on system of power based on those subjectivities is obviously lost on you. Class operates on a different axis from race and class; that you claim one negates the others is absurd and shows you've managed to avoid any understanding of literature on race, class, and gender from the past fifty years, ideas that have long filtered up into the popular press. Clinton's wealth doesn't erase the fact that misogyny and sexism are major influences in the campaign against her. That you continue to focus on gender as a weapon against her shows as much.

[sabrina 1]

81. Who was that comment intended for?

You insisted that the words c...t and wh...e were not sexist, words that dictionaries clearly define as insults toward women

IF, and I very much doubt it as not a word of it relates to me in any remote sense of the word, but IF you actually did intend it for me, please PROVE that false assertion, with links.

As for the rest of it, Obama doesn't agree with you at all.

Since Hillary has played the gender card before, and the race card, you can here HIS response to this tactic in the comment right above yours. We all remember btw, so it's becoming more than familiar. As Obama said back then 'we would not expect this from someone who is running for President'.

As for the rest to quote a woman I greatly admire who was attacking in a WSJ Op Ed by two of the founders of the Third Way 'Oh Please'!

Elizabeth Warren did NOT attribute those nasty attacks to the fact that she is a woman, she doesn't play those games, she attributed them to the fact that two very ignorant, elitist Wall St investors dared to lecture a US Senator on her 'populism'.

[moondust]

59. Quite the card player.

Victim card, gender card, you-name-it card.

Ready for...Vegas?

[Thinkingabout]

60. Since there are posts daily on the sexists charge I am convinced this was a deliberate statement by

Sanders to get the sexists charge in order to get sympathy. If not I would not be seeing the op's over and over. Sanders has made it clear he is not going to apologize for his statement which he named Secretary Clinton and went on with his shouting remark. If he had not named her, and I don't think there was any other Secretary Clintons present, he could have went on to make his statement about shouting. Since she was named she had every right to bring this into her speech afterwards. It I Sanders statement and owns that statement. All the shouting is not going to change his statement.

[sabrina 1]

72. Seriously? I think the record on this is clear now. I hope Hillary and her campaign have learned a

lesson from the reaction of the people. Don't play the female victim. We need a strong leader who is no one's victim.

[OKNancy]

63. Hillary is not a sexist and Bernie is not a sexist

Neither are racists.

DONE

[sabrina 1]

65. And yet Bernie AND his supporters have been accused, by Hillary supporters, of being both. I agree

with you btw.

[OKNancy]

66. I've never seen an outright accusation that Bernie is either

However, each group of supporters has the shit stirrers.
Those who get off on arguing, posting the same thing over and over and being obnoxious.

I'd say some people need to cool it.

[sabrina 1]

71. Well, I've seen the word 'sexist' together with the name of my candidate. I don't like that. Sorry

if I don't let these memes spread without tracking down who is responsible and correcting the false implications.

I'm for campaigns being about ISSUES.

But when I something being promoted that is false, I learned from past campaigns that we can't allow them to go unchallenged. Lots of good Democrats have been destroyed by these smear campaigns.

A very important issue, the smear mongering, much of it financed by Corporate entities, in this campaign.

The way to stop people from challenging them is NOT to do it.

[olddots]

68. no she was being Hillary

and she is perfect in every way .

[sabrina 1]

73. I noticed that those in the business of profiting from smear campaigns don't expect pushback for

some reason. They seem to believe that once they send out a talking point, bought and paid for I'm sure, that should be the end of it.

And then they inevitable happens. Their talking point gets challenged. And the weeping and wailing is amazing. I wonder WHY they think in this era they always seem to be taken by surprise when people turn their talking points upside down?

[RandySF]

76. No

[sabrina 1]

78. I disagree. Using gender to try to score political points is sexist.

[Kalidurga]

83. It was cowardly and it was backstabbing.

Bernie was talking about the debate technique used while talking about guns, both sides yell and shout past each other and few listen. That isn't going to accomplish anything. It even appeared that Hillary agreed with him on that point. And this is in the same debate where Bernie gave her a hand up, I am not sure she needed it. But we sure did cuz Bernie is right the email scandal is a RW manufactured and it isn't a serious topic for debate. So, a week or 10 days later Hillary claims Bernie is saying she personally is shouting when she talks about gunz? When did that happen exactly? It sounded to me more like Bernie was issuing an invitation to have a sane conversation about guns where people listen and don't let their passionate feelings about the issue over rule a common sense approach to the issue.

[eridani]

84. Not if it was a generic comment about how women's ideas get ignored

Unfortunately, it seems to be a campaign ploy, the point of which I can't understand. Given that there are no significant differences among the Dem candidates (the three that are left, anyway). You get commitment to equal pay, and reproductive rights.

The broader issue of rape culture is something that a mass movement has to contend with--no president is going to change it with an executive order or something of the sort. In the 1975 child rape case, she really did try to get out of defending the guy, and her job was to make the best case for the defendant. Still, blaming the victim was way out of line IMO--the forensic errors of the prosecution should have been sufficient to her objective (shades of OJ Simpson).

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-stands-by-her-defense-of-1975-rape-suspect/

In a sworn affidavit aiming to coerce a psychiatric evaluation of the sixth-grade victim, Clinton during the case nearly 40 years ago called into question the girl's emotional stability, arguing she had exhibited "a tendency to seek out older men and engage in... fantasizing." She added, citing a child psychology expert that "children in early adolescence tend to exaggerate or romanticize sexual experiences and that adolescents with disorganized families, such as the complainant, are even more prone to such behavior."

But in the recording, Clinton indicated she believed her client was indeed guilty. Heard laughing, she said the polygraph test he managed to pass "forever destroyed my faith in polygraphs."

I'm pretty sure all three Democratic candidates now support rape shield laws (and that all the Repukes, even Fiorina, oppose them). The Nolo article is a very clear summary.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/rape-shield-laws-protecting-sex-crime-victims.html

Here to Stay

Rape shield laws have brought the rules related to sex crimes in line with the rules of evidence that apply to all other criminal trials. If a defendant can show that evidence of a victim’s character, reputation, or sexual history is relevant to the charges, the court will probably allow it. For example, if the defendant claims that the alleged victim received the injuries in question during a sexual encounter with another man, evidence of that encounter might be admissible.

But getting past rape shield laws is tough because of their design—to prevent victims from experiencing public shame for having reported their ordeals.

I first heard this in 2008 from a couple of women in my precinct caucus who brought it up as a reason they would not caucus for Clinton. I was unable to find anything online at the time to verify it, and they couldn't tell me exactly where they got the information. The date on the first url is 2014.

This, Gamergate, online stalking and rape threats. Vicious misogynist judges who think kids are really trying to be "sexy." We have a hell of a long way to go here. For that reason, I'm not making this an OP, and ask others not to.

[Divernan]

96. She could easily have refused to take the case.

She was running a law clinic in a local law school, which clinic did pro bono work. I ran such a clinic for 2 years, and as director, I had total control of which cases we accepted. We had more than enough landlord-tenant, consumer protection, simple (not complex) divorce cases, disability claims - all at a level at which law students learned the basics, and very poor people got much needed legal help. The students did all the prep work, under the supervision of myself & 2 other attorneys. I point out, we had a very tight budget to cover costs like filing fees, getting copies of documents, court papers, etc. We could not afford to take complex cases requiring expert medical witnesses. I can not imagine accepting a criminal case and putting law students to work on developing a defense for a 41 year old man who admitted fondling a 12 year old girl in his car, but denied raping her, and the prosecution had DNA evidence from her panties which matched the "client".

Hillary was not ordered or forced to take on the defense of the accused rapist. She did not make any effort to get out of representing him.

As been her long time pattern, her story "evolves" as the circumstances of negative publicity dictate. Clinton, in “Living History,” said she was “appointed” to the case. During her EARLIER taped sessions, Clinton said the prosecutor in the case called her, saying the accused rapist wanted a female lawyer, and asked if she would do it “as a favor.” `
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/06/hillary-clinton-1975-arkansas-rape-victim-speaks-108124

Audio tapes were uncovered from the Clinton archives at the University of Arkansas. In the tapes, from over 30 years ago, Clinton describes how she was able to find a loophole in the system to discredit the evidence against her client. She is heard laughing as she describes the tactics she used to do so. The recordings prompted the victim of the trial to speak out for the first time in years.http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/06/hillary-clinton-dogged-by-1975-rape-case/

(We all know how Hillary laughs at incredibly offensive times - "We came. We saw. He died.&quot
How's that for FEMINISM, folks? Letting an accused rapist, whom she believed to be guilty, game the system by having a female lawyer to influence a jury? That's sexism at its very rankest, and Hill jumped at the chance and went to the most extreme of lengths to win the case. Agreeing to represent the scum was only the beginning.

Cause you know Hillary - combative to the nth degree, has to win at all costs, can never admit defeat (which is why she hid for over 30 years the fact that she failed the Washington DC bar exam, and moved to Arkansas because she managed to pass the easier Arkansas bar.) She actually went to the lengths of flying into New York City and retaining the expert witness services of a man who was a Nobel Laureate, to get him to write a letter stating that the missing piece of the 12 year old victim's panties, by which the Arkansas prosecutor had obtained DNA evidence matching Hillary's client, but which had subsequently been lost so could not be retested meant that there was not sufficient material left to retest.

Just how much of the law school clinic's limited budget did Hillary squander on obtaining this level of proof, rather than simply getting a local Arkansas forensic expert to testify to the same thing? It has also been uncontested that Hillary never provided any proof/testimony to corroborate her claims that the 12 year old had a history of promiscuity with older men.

According to an oft-quoted 2008 Newsday article (which has since disappeared from the Internet) Hillary Rodham supposedly questioned the sixth grader’s honesty and claimed she had made false accusations in the past. Rodham/Clinton implied that the girl often fantasized and sought out “older men” like Taylor. The proof of Rodham/Clinton's part is in a July 1975 affidavit signed “Hillary D. Rodham” in compact cursive.

How many of the law school clinic's impoverished clients got de minimis representation because HRC blew the budget on a hot shot New York expert?

And here's the link re her failing the DC bar exam:

Hillary Clinton failed the D.C. bar exam after law school, something she hid from her best friends for 30 years until disclosing it in passing in her autobiography, "Living History." Bernstein suggests that blow to her ego may have played a role in her decision to move to Arkansas, where she had passed the bar.

Hillary Clinton failed the D.C. bar exam after law school, something she hid from her best friends for 30 years until disclosing it in passing in her autobiography, "Living History." Bernstein suggests that blow to her ego may have played a role in her decision to move to Arkansas, where she had passed the bar.

link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

[eridani]

97. Just goes to show. Opposition research is easier to do than ever, and the Repubs are going to--

--use every smear possible, true or false, no matter who our nominee is. This case makes the 'socialism" thing look pretty tame by comparison.

[Divernan]

85. Was it sexist for HRC to call Bill's victim Monica a "narcissistic looney toon"?

Particularly if one considers Monica to be part of the larger class of young, gullible, female employees of powerful, seductive male bosses?

Was it sexist of HRC to continually excuse and enable her husband's serial adulteries by blaming the women involved?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hillary-clinton-monica-lewinsky-a-narcissistic-loony-toon/

The papers offer a look at Hillary Clinton’s mindset through some of the most difficult parts of her husband’s presidency, including the Monica Lewinsky scandal. According to the friend, Diane Blair -- a political science professor whose papers were donated to the University of Arkansas Special Collections library – Hillary Clinton credited Bill Clinton with trying to break away from Lewinsky, whom she called a “narcissistic loony toon.”

A frequent theme in the documents is Hillary Clinton’s dissatisfaction with the people around her during her time in Washington. Blair’s notes indicate Hillary thought of Congress as “a bunch of whiners” with “no courage” during the health care debate; she clashed with her husband’s staff and other administration members; thought the press had “big egos and no brains;” and that she was “furious” with Bill Clinton for “ruining himself and the presidency” during his first year in office.

“She keeps trying to shape things up, knows what’s wrong, but [Bill] can’t fire people, exert discipline, punish leakers,” Blair wrote on May 17, 1994, according to the Free Beacon. “Never had strategy for Whitewater, troopers, Paula [Jones]. … Inability to organize, make tough choices, drives her nuts.”

[Divernan]

86. Bill's female chief of staff coined the phrase "bimbo eruption squad"

Now THAT was a sexist phrase. Hillary had no problem with that designation, let alone the squad's purpose of trashing the reputations of any women claiming involvement with her powerful husband, whether when he was governor or president.

Betsey Ross Wright (born July 4, 1943) is an American lobbyist, activist, and political consultant who worked more than a decade for Bill Clinton in Arkansas.[1][2][3] She served as chief of staff to Governor Clinton for seven years. As deputy chair of the 1992 Clinton presidential campaign, Wright established the rapid response system that was responsible for defending Clinton's record in Arkansas and promptly answering all personal attacks on the candidate.[4] During the 1992 campaign, Wright coined the term "bimbo eruptions" to describe rumors alleging extramarital affairs by Clinton.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betsey_Wright

Now, here's the definition of "bimbo". (Oxford dictionary)

bim·bo
/ˈbimbō/
noun
1. an attractive but empty-headed young woman, especially one perceived as a willing sex object

and according to the Urban Dictionary, 10 words which are comparable to "bimbo" are:
slut whore blonde bitch skank stupid dumb idiot airhead tramp
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bimbo

I argue that "bimbo" is a blatantly sexist term of the most offensive degree.

[sabrina 1]

88. 'Bimbo' is sexist if other people say it, but by the rules I'm seeing, if you're Hillary, there will

be excuses made, attacks on the messengers eg.

I have just watched a video from the 2008 election upthread and apparently Hillary made similar comments regarding her being bullied by men, re Obama.

Obama was asked about it, his response was more or less how I think most people would react to a powerful woman askiing for a powerful position while claiming victimhood due to being a woman.

[JoePhilly]

94. More war on Christmas.