Deuteronomy 10:17-22

[NCTraveler]

“For the LORD, your God, is the God of gods, the LORD of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who has no favorites, accepts no bribes; who executes justice . . . and befriends the alien, feeding and clothing him. So you too must befriend the alien, for you were once aliens yourselves in the land of Egypt . . . . and now the LORD, your God, has made you as numerous as the stars of the sky” (Deuteronomy 10:17-22).

I began attending church a while back. It has never really been a part of my life. I must say it has changed me for the better in so many ways. Each week I become more and more involved.

This week a group of Hillary supporters and I met afterward and discussed Deuteronomy 10:17-22. We looked at it in the scope of how important it is to continue the sea change created by Obama. Interestingly enough, everyone in the group mentioned Obama's early days in the White House and how concerned they were over some of his outreach to republicans and the appearance that he truly trusted them. We all came to the agreement that he clearly had a plan as the rhetoric and direction today is in complete contrast to where we were a decade ago. We have gone from fighting Bush to inner fights about how far left we can go. That in itself was viewed as a huge victory and a sign of the current in this country. We are making progress in almost every area and brutal conservative ideals are often being dismissed for progressive ideals by so many segments of society.

All of the talk about reigning in Wall Street, enormous and abundant additional regulation place on them over the last seven years, and a society waking up to the fleecing. People get that it doesn't simply have to be like this. Hilary is one of the most recognizable people in the world and we all love how she is taking the economic and social issues to the populace. She is being heard and is promoting the continuation of the great evolution started by Obama. We all discussed immigration and it's connection to this verse. We discussed how close we were in '07 to bringing over ten million people into the sunlight, but it just wasn't their day in the eyes of republicans and the Lord. We will still keep fighting. Our pastor directly discussed this in service and touched on the brutality of the realities many face.

This has been such a wonderful thing for me. Another group that I just recently joined they call their Social Justice Warrior Group. Instead of watering things down, they decided to make minor criminal offences their issue, mainly marijuana. They lobby to turn what are minor criminal arrests into citations. In our area these minor offenses are strongly disproportionate in their application with respect to the AA and Latino communities. I am so excited to be a part of this group and to learn their direction and begin to lobby with them. One interesting note, they are very clear that their largest support outside of the church to this point has been law enforcement themselves. We discussed the verse above during service with respect to this aspect. We must work towards a just society. It is our responsibility as individuals and a group.

People, join groups in your area. I'm not saying a church, find one that works for you and speak with a similar voice as you. Collective bargaining isn't just for unions, it's how society runs. Your voice turns in to the voice of hundreds in an instant. It also makes a difference in your local community and can be rewarding.

[riversedge]

1. Beautiful. I am so glad you found a place where you feel you can make a difference.

in solidarity.

[NCTraveler]

2. Thank you riversedge.

I am not a religious person and still claim that. Yet this is one of the most beautiful groups of people I have ever been associated with. They simply want to promote change for the better, mainly in our local area. It is simply a push for progress, all positive, with no ego's. I have to say it was very strange walking in the first time knowing my thoughts and beliefs in the area of religion. Within the first minutes of listening to the pastor on my first visit, I was sold. Not sold on religion. Sold on the community they had built and are continuing to build. It blew me away. It is a Christian Church yet they pride themselves on acceptance of diversity in religion. Looking through their past activity I see that they have had guest speakers from other religions, agnostic persons, and athiests join them for service and speak to groups afterward.

[riderinthestorm]

3. This belongs in the religion group nt

[NCTraveler]

4. A discussion about the primaries as a group in a local community belongs in the religion group?

I have seen numerous discussions with respect to Sanders and religion in this forum. Never have I seen you make this claim in any of them. Local communities working for a dem primary candidate and working to promote progressive change belongs in the religion group?

[Bluenorthwest]

5. If the Bible is your guide, as DOMA folks like to claim...

Hillary cited her Christian faith as reason to oppose equality for years and years then can we discuss the verses in the Old and New Testament that say women should not speak in public, not seek power over men, remain subservient to males and ask questions only of their husbands alone at home? Because I have heard so many assertions that religion and the Bible are great guides when folks want to attack LGBT but often the attackers are women who are in breach of the Bible themselves by speaking in public and running for office and usurping power.
It's not my Bible. It's Hillary's. And it says those things. She has cited it against LGBT, but it says she should not even stand for office much less hold one. That's just the fact.

So for years Hillary and Democrats have insisted that the Bible is their guide to anti equality policy, DOMA, travel bans, you name it. 'I'm a Christian, Sanctity, it says in the Bible'. But I know what else it says.

Hypocrites are hypocrites. Cherry picking situational ethics are not ethics at all.

[NCTraveler]

6. I never said the bible was my guide at all.

Not even close. One doesn't even need to read between the lines to see that. I mentioned a group I am a part of and the work they are doing. Numerous members of the church aren't Christians. I brought up the topic we discussed this Sunday. It went far past the scope of the bible and that can be seen in my op itself. Maybe you just read the first part and stopped there.

"but it says she should not even stand for office much less hold one. That's just the fact." Not one single aspect of that is a fact. Truly goes completely against the idea of what a fact is.

"Cherry picking situational ethics are not ethics at all."

I fully agree with that. I also made zero claim as to Clinton's perfection as you seem to be insinuating.

I have shown strong opposition to most organized religion on this site. That includes bringing in bigots for brownie points during campaigns. That goes for all candidates. Not selective choosing.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Uh Deuteronomy is perhaps the most anti gay book in the Bible, your title highlights it.

The New Testament does in fact say women should not even speak in public and never take power over males, it just does. The fact that you don't like that does not mean it does not say it, I don't like it either.
1st Timothy verses two through nine:
Likewise the women are to dress in suitable apparel, with modesty and self-control. Their adornment must not be with braided hair and gold or pearls or expensive clothing, 10 but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God.
11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first and then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, because she was fully deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But she will be delivered through childbearing, if she continues in faith.

Those verses are more clear that the 'anti gay' verses every politician in the US has barfed up.

[NCTraveler]

14. Yet there we women were. Speaking.

We must not be good listeners.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. What does that mean? I cited to you verses you said were not there.

There are many, many others. Another poster is already on the Titus verses. Where were 'we women, speaking'? Timothy says he did not allow that. Where is your citation? Being snarky and dismissive is not really communication. You claimed there were no such verses, you got shown the verses. So you make snark.

[riderinthestorm]

16. Titus 2: 3-5 is also cited as proof God wants women to stay home

and not work.

To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

If we're going to bring Bible verses to bear on the campaigns I can cough up too many to count.

Raised as a Fundie and was an Awana superstar!

[Bluenorthwest]

22. I can do the same

Folks get upset that I can do that....heathen are supposed to be ignorant of all world religions.

[NCTraveler]

11. I want to add that I really do appreciate your post here.

I always do in this area. While I take issue with that validity of a part of your response, I also agree with much of it.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. That's very kind of you, you too. I have cited verses from 1st Timothy about the role of women

according to the NT voices who say 'gay is bad'. I strongly disagree with all of those teachings. Not just the parts about LGBT but also the parts about women. I have spent years amazed that women like Hillary cite that book against LGBT rights when it says what it says about women, but they do. Obama did the same thing. 'Gays are bad because the Bible, now here is my wife to teach a group of men while wearing clothing forbidden to her by the Bible'.
The rules are for thee, never for me. That's not in the Bible but Christians think that it is.

[NCTraveler]

21. What you mention here is why I would never support organized religion.

I actually do believe it to be the greatest evil of society. I find this group to be so much different. For the reasons I stated, I still don't monetarily support this group. I will monetarily support certain actions they take. That includes housing people to lobby an so forth.

I also want to recognize my hypocrisy in this post alone. The claim I don't support organized religion, yet I only see myself supporting where I was at this weekend. I am simply blown away by what they are doing. It goes completely against all I previously thought. I really try to self reflect and be consistent. I do recognize my inconsistency here. Yet all actions I have seen them take over the months fall in line with my beliefs.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Dueteronomy is very hardcore stuff for a Monday moring, and I probably judged too harshly a group

taking study from a book that says I should be killed....if they seek to be inclusive of LGBT they might want to be more 'Sermon on the Mount' oriented. I see Deuteronomy and I run for safety!

[NCTraveler]

24. "I see Deuteronomy and I run for safety!"

You see Deuteronomy and rightfully put it in its place. I am woefully uneducated on this topic when compared to yourself. I mentioned what I was a part of. It really feels good. Your thoughts on the matter are excellent for personal reflection for myself just as the weekend was. The book has been used to kill people I love. It is serious. I truly see and respect that.

[riderinthestorm]

7. I interpreted your post as a commentary of how the Bible verse applied

to Obama's actions, to your own actions, HRC's, immigration, law enforcement etc

Only in your final paragraph did you exhort DUers to become active in a community group which seemed more of an afterthought and not the real purpose of your post. The rest of your post seemed to me to be about that verse.

I'm not on DU 24/7. I'm sorry if I've missed other posts in GDP that were/are religious. I'd suggest they belong in the religion group too if I'd seen them.

[NCTraveler]

10. There is a process set up at du for you to address your grievance. nt.

[riderinthestorm]

12. I can't remember the last time I sent an alert.

And I just don't care enough to do that with this post.

[NCTraveler]

15. Would have been quicker and more effective than what you did do. nt.

[riderinthestorm]

17. I have no idea what you think I did

I merely pointed out I thought your OP belonged in a religion group.

[riversedge]

9. Then make sure you post all Paul Ryan posts in Religion group

[JaneyVee]

8. K AND R! Good for you.

[oldandhappy]

19. Thank you, nice encouragement.

I have become active in a local Dem club for the opportunity to talk with like minded folk and to do some of the doing together. Nice.