When Democrats Vote Their Conscience, Bernie Sanders Will Defeat a 'Moderate' Hillary Clinton

[pinebox]

Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

Ya ya I know, all the Hillary fans will be yelling "OMG the Goodmanz!!!111". Whatever.
Like it or not, he has a point.

This article is huge so I'm only posting a snippet.

When Democrats Vote Their Conscience, Bernie Sanders Will Defeat a 'Moderate' Hillary Clinton
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/democrats-bernie-sanders-defeat-moderate-hillary-clinton_b_8449748.html

Assuming Democrats have a progressive conscience in 2016, only one candidate will be victorious in the primaries, and I explain my thought process in this

" target="_blank">YouTube segment. In addition, my appearances on The " target="_blank">Benjamin Dixon Show and " target="_blank">The Ring of Fire also highlight the vast differences between Bernie and Hillary. There's a myth that a "moderate" Clinton and progressive Sanders are similar presidential candidates; a fable that ignores Bush's AUMF and Clinton's hawkish foreign policy, ties to Wall Street, and prison lobbyists. On issues that correlate directly to the lives of millions both within the U.S. and around the world, Clinton and Sanders go in opposite directions.

The AUMF, legislation allowing the president to unilaterally send Americans into battle for a limited time without Congressional approval, should deter any progressive from voting for Hillary Clinton. Also, a recent Black Lives Matter protest of Clinton's event highlights the fact non-white Democrats are essential to any lead in the polls. Ironically, Clinton waited almost three weeks to address Ferguson, once used a 3 AM ad in 2008 that had a "racist sub-message," and today accepts money from prison lobbyists. This speaks volumes.

No, it's not chicken or fish, unless one of the dishes was made in a prison; Hillary Clinton's campaign accepts donations from prison lobbyists. The truth is that both candidates are the antithesis of one another when it comes to the presidency. The powers directly tied to the Oval Office aren't Congressional votes. They consist of the ability to wage war, dictate U.S. foreign policy, decide upon whether or not to confront Wall Street or bailout banks, and if we're to embark upon unfair trade deals or colossal oil pipelines. Remember, you're voting for a president, not a Senator. Vetoes and a value system matter, especially when Clinton supported the TPP 45 times and once supported Keystone XL.

On foreign policy, Wall Street, war, and trade, Hillary Clinton leans towards the Republican Party. POLITICO once labeled Clinton Wall Street Republicans' dark secret and The New York Times once asked Are Neocons Getting Ready to Ally With Hillary Clinton?

[bravenak]

1. I see he completely ignored Netroots and Seattle and the crap that followed. So neutral.

[pinebox]

3. Netroots?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-landslide-victory_b_8187842.html

Hillary Clinton wasn't at Netroots.

Why?

The former Secretary of State waited almost three weeks to address Ferguson.

Why?

In 2008, the Clinton campaign ran a 3:00 a.m. ad against Obama that contained a "racist sub-message" according to Harvard's Orlando Patterson.

[bravenak]

4. Just commenting on this slanted article published to make Bernie grow a halo.

[pinebox]

6. It is what it is

Hillary has a lot of baggage, you can better believe it will be exploited especially during election time.

[bravenak]

16. So will his.

[Sheepshank]

58. it already is....it already is being exploited. What do the polls say

...about that GOP success?

[randys1]

90. Exploited during election time, like here now at DU? It is all day everyday here,

so you are right, if ALLEGED liberals and Democrats are this vicious towards her..........

[riversedge]

20. gold plated halo no doubt.

[bravenak]

21. Wearing gossamer robes and riding on a beam of sunlight.

[pinebox]

31. Gold plated halo?

Sorry but last I heard, Bernie wasn't "The anointed one". You guys can't discuss policy and anytime someone brings something up, y'all freak about it and see it as an attack. It's sad really.

[Bubzer]

114. Its an attempt to malign Bernie's amazing voting record, oddly enough.

When Hillary has nothing but the more than dubious support of big banks and corporations, as well as a less than glamorous voting record, all that's left is to attack.

[Wotas]

118. I really don't understand some of the Bernie hate

What are people so afraid of?

[DianeK]

92. I just wonder why you continue to saunter into these..

obviously pro Bernie threads..I can only conclude that you intend to throw wrenches....I do not agree with you..I will never agree with you..you will not agree with me..so why..when the title of the post is so obviously pro Bernie would you even enter?

[bravenak]

93. I do not care if you agree or if you like it. I do it for the pleasure in the doing.

Correcting the record.

[DianeK]

94. throwing wrenches...

ok..i understand so much now..

[bravenak]

95. I am CORRECTING the record. Same as you.

[DianeK]

97. you are too young to even begin to understand the record

but i appreciate your passion

[bravenak]

107. I understand perfectly well.

[mcar]

102. Pro Bernie threads that only want

Pro Bernie replies should be posted in the protected Sanders group. This is in GD . Thus it is open to all.

[Scootaloo]

53. Excellent start to a useful conversation.

[bravenak]

62. You know me. I get it done.

[rbrnmw]

66. YEP!!!!!!!!

[bravenak]

67. Notice how I can just say random stuff and people get pissed. If someone else wrote it nobody would

even notice it.
I just have to put in a bouncy. I should do it in every post for a week. I'd forget though.

[rbrnmw]

69. LOL

You just bring it out. Bravenak Darangement Syndrome.

[bravenak]

71. Seriously. I would just ignore me.

[rbrnmw]

72. Not gonna happen I guess some people

get a kick out of it

[bravenak]

73. Drawn to me, unfortunately.

[rbrnmw]

75. They love you in a twisted way

[bravenak]

76. Want to possess me like a toy and educate me fiercely.

[rbrnmw]

81. Yeah because grown women can't think for themselves

[bravenak]

82. Not the black ones. They let republican women think on their own though. No educating them!

[rbrnmw]

87. Exactly the more melanin the more the education

[bravenak]

88. We NEED it!!! They are obligated to tell us how much they do for us.

[mcar]

103. You are a magnet, brave

[bravenak]

104. Sad what I attract, eh?

[Scootaloo]

77. I still think ol' Eduard sings it better.

R.I.P. dude

[bravenak]

79. I'm always the best at all of it. Everything. Name a thing?!?! I'm better at it. Than everybody. Lol

People think I'm serious when I say this stuff. My God!
I'm almost done doing this. So boring. Too easy.

[Scootaloo]

127. Best at everything, huh?

Your move, Bravenak.

[bravenak]

128. Hell, I can put both legs behind my head if that counts? It looks weird but I can still do it.

[Scootaloo]

129. ...

[bravenak]

131. I know. It's weird. Still do cartwheels and stuff too.

It's from being a dancer. You never lose certain, um, attributes. Like I twerk all the time yo. I see a dance and I own it, immediately.

[Scootaloo]

135. I'll bet you still can't out-dance Thriller Cat

...I'm just in a giffy mood, I guess

[bravenak]

136. Prolly not, lol.

I wish I knew why that exists.

[Scootaloo]

137. The more I look at it...

The more I realize it's more like Smooth Criminal Cat, innit? He just needs to leeeeean.

[bravenak]

138. That lean had me upset for two years trying to get it down.

I think I gave up. It looks like this dance my mom does she calls the creep.

[Scootaloo]

139. It's a stage trick

He wore special shoes that basically bolted to the floor to keep him from falling over. So don't feel bad, he was cheating

[bravenak]

140. Tell my eight year old self. She still thinks about it.

[Maedhros]

2. What about Democrats who have no conscience?

For example, the ones who cheered the destruction of Libya and slavered over the possibility of intervening in Syria?

This election will tell us if they outnumber the decent, humanitarian Democrats.

[riversedge]

10. Way to diss Democrats on a Dem Board. Shame on you. Divisive post

[pinebox]

14. No not shame on him

Reality. Let's talk about the 89 Dems who voted to gut SNAP http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps
I don't give a shit what side someone is on, wrong is wrong. PERIOD.

[brooklynite]

46. I thought we were talking about "Demcrats"

You know, the 40 M who will be voting in the Primary season?

20 M of which say they support Hillary Clinton.

Conscience free?

[Tommy2Tone]

15. No kidding

Decent Democrats vote for Bernie the rest of us are the opposite of decent I guess?

[Sheepshank]

59. I was about to write that I will vote my conscience and it will be for Hillary

but now I find out that I don't have a conscience and I'm not decent either?

Perfect way to treat fellow Dems.....of course unless the people doing the talking are not really Dems?

[workinclasszero]

49. Agreed

I hate these arrogant posts that slam other democrats.

[Scootaloo]

54. He seems to have your number

After all, he's talking about a specific group of Democrats, not all.

Isn't that the logic you guys use while shitting on Sanders supporters? "Divisive," huh?

[riversedge]

61. Iowa has Hillary's number!--> PPP poll Iowa Nov 2: Clinton 57% Sanders 25%

PPP poll Iowa Nov 2: Clinton 57% Sanders 25% O'M 7%





http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/11/cruz-rising-in-iowa-clinton-back-out-to-dominant-lead.html#more

[Broward]

48. Many of these Dems you ask of are probably Republicans.

If not in name, at least in their ideology.

[Maedhros]

51. A bunch of them post here, so they at least THINK they are Democrats. [n/t]

Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

[Electric Monk]

113. Jury results (3-4), I voted to leave it

On Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:55 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

What about Democrats who have no conscience?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=757996

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is OTT talkinng to democrats on a democratic board that way

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Nov 2, 2015, 06:58 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Is the alerter one of those "Democrats who have no conscience"? If not, this post isn't about you. If so, please take a hike.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Disgusting. Hide this tripe.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[Wotas]

119. It certainly will

[upaloopa]

5. Any bit of hope helps I guess.

[pinebox]

9. Hey hope goes far

See October figures XD

[bravenak]

18. Black voters shifted to Obama.

We will not shift to Bernie. Obama also was getting delegates. Bernie is not getting delegates.
Hillary has campaigned for many who will return the favor. Bernie has not. Hillary went and listened to what DEMOCRATS want. Bernie did not. He is not a Democrat.

[pinebox]

22. You may shocked to find out

though that many indy and republican RINOs will and are supporting Bernie and that's where Hillary is lacking.
Hillary has campaigned for who exactly? Bernie has been in the senate fighting for the middle class and poor for 30 years.
Bernie isn't a Dem? So what! Honestly, that doesn't matter at all and if anything it gives him a huge edge considering the American people are completely fed up with the both parties and Washington.

Policy is MORE important than party. Period. Full stop.

[bravenak]

24. You seriously think a bunch of Republicans and Indys are gonna reregister as Dems just to

get a chance to bring more SOCIALISM to America?

Please stop!! My sides!! Hurts!!

No, seriously, who are these people who are going to help Bernie overcome the sheer number of Democratic votes in the primary? You have to get past that step first.
And policy? Like what? The stuff he cannot say how he will pass other than, "I need a Revolution!"
A revolution? Who is going to take to the streets? Occupy? Didn't even work LAST TIME. Black social justice warriors? Yeaaah, no, probably not, they like hope and stuff and Bernie is super depressing. A Dour Dan. Millennials? Us older ones are raising kids and working and cannot attend his revolution at this time in many cases. The younger ones? In the streets all day? Umm hmm. I kick it with them all the time, some will attend, most will not.

[pinebox]

36. I don't only think it

I know it. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Bernie+sanders+republican+supporters

See, there you go. Now what? That's called a "coalition" that reaches across the divide.
Yet you guys dismiss facts like how they actually helped Bernie get elected, despite all the articles out there, you defend the Flat Earth Society. Never mind that in a general, the stats are showing that Bernie does better against a Republican opponent than Hillary.
Oh and guess what Bravenak, I'm no Dem, I'm an Indy. And there's millions more like myself. We're the largest voting block in America.

Socialism you say? My response? Who the hell are Ike Republicans!?

[bravenak]

63. Nice 70 year old poster!

Once again

[pinebox]

80. Nice

ability to only deflect and NOT understand what it is you're truly saying.
Meanwhile this is happening and you just got completely reked.
Have a nice day

[bravenak]

85. Reminds me of AA for Bernie Facebook.

I wonder what a Facebook page proves? That republicans will switch parties to vote Bernie? No.

[Qutzupalotl]

101. They do in Vermont

where Bernie consistently gets 25% of the REPUBLICAN vote.

[bravenak]

106. Won't get any of them here or much of elsewhere, though sadly.

[Qutzupalotl]

108. Says your crystal ball.

I promise you he'll get a lot more crossover vote than Hillary would.

[bravenak]

110. Says actual republicans

[Qutzupalotl]

111. The ones who know him best cross over to vote for him.

[bravenak]

112. The ones I know have no abortion decals with actual dead fetus photos on their cars.

And stickers that say 'ECONOMIC FREEDOM OR DEATH!" As in NO SOCIALISM, like the sticker on their car windows.

[Qutzupalotl]

115. I think you just jumped your own shark.

[bravenak]

116. You have not met alaska republicans I gather. Lol. We had the tea party marching down the street

open carrying. We call ourselves 'The Last Frontier'. We do GUNS. We make girls get parents permission for abortions. We legalize weed. We drill oil. I don't think you know much about this place.

[Qutzupalotl]

143. We don't need the crazy Republican vote,

just peeling off a few moderates is enough to tilt the scales in some surprising areas.

[workinclasszero]

50. Bernie was always proud of not being a democrat

until recently.

[bravenak]

64. Now we Democrats are not even Democrats unless we vote Independent.

[Cha]

141. LOL

[bravenak]

142. It's crazy

[zappaman]

7. ok. n/t

[Thinkingabout]

8. I am voting my conscience because I know Bernie Sanders is not qualified to be president,

he does not have the nature to be president and he really is not willing to do the work to be president. We need a strong person who does not shout all the time.

[Metric System]

11. I think it's telling that so few of his colleagues have endorsed him. Look at the support President

Obama had from many of his colleagues when he ran in 2007-08 for comparison. It's not that they fear the Clintons (as Bernie boosters have claimed on DU). It's that they fear Sanders as nominee.

[pinebox]

13. What I think is telling

is so few outside the Democrat bubble support Hillary.
People matter, not endorsements. That's why Bernie is ahead of Hillary by almost 200,00 donors.

[Wotas]

120. She's very much establishment

[pinebox]

12. What?

He doesn't have the nature and not willing to do the work? What on earth are you talking about?
So you'll support a candidate who is basically a hawk when it comes to foreign policy, is against a $15 minimum wage and whose plan for college students STILL leaves families paying for their schooling and would require them to work?

The whole shouting thing is just stupid. Who the hell cares about that? That doesn't matter. What does is policy.

[Thinkingabout]

27. And you are supporting a candidate who is a hawk and supports the NRA and does not have foreign

Experience and living in a kibbutz is not gaining very much foreign experience to deal with world leaders.

You are right the shouting is stupid.

[pinebox]

42. Sanders is NOT a hawk

Where are you getting this from? Sorry but Sanders is quite the opposite.

[bravenak]

19. Shouting does not get anything done.

Obama is calm and gets things done. Hillary sat through a full day of testimony very calm and poised. I cannot imagine Bernie in a situation like that.

[pinebox]

23. Shouting you say?

You mean like this?

'Nuff said. Just saying.

[bravenak]

25. Umm hmm.

[Thinkingabout]

28. Did this doctored video come from Breibart? Do you have one with Sanders not shouting?

[pinebox]

29. Seriously?

You guys are honestly considering the merits about whether a candidate is "shouting" while people in my fucking neighborhood can't even afford food for their kids? You go ahead, you support your candidate that way, have at it. There's a lot more important issues to discuss with things which ACTUALLY MATTER than bullshit like this.

[Thinkingabout]

35. I did not post a doctored video. Sensitive about the shouting,huh.

Alright now that all the sharks have been said let's stay on the issues.

[pinebox]

37. A looped video?

Here, better?
Not doctored.

Everybody yells but this whole "shouting thing" is just downright stupid. We face so much as a country. We need to fight that and not bullshit. I'll say that to anybody. I don't give a crap who they support.

[Thinkingabout]

38. See, here you go, I thought you were thimking about the poor kids starving.

[pinebox]

43. I am

and wouldn't a $15/hr minimum wage help to lift people out of poverty than $12? That's a huge difference. Massive really.

[bravenak]

100. I'm a bit sensitive on the shouting too. He yells too much. Depressing.

[Sheepshank]

65. So Bernie is going to finance a chicken in every pot, every night?

I don't understand what you think Bernie will be able to accomplish if he were POTUS? He doesn't work well with other peers, he hasn't verbalized a workable plan to change your poor neighorhoods...you do realize he would not become a dictator with unfettered ability to enforce any policy he so pleases?

[bravenak]

68. Hillary poops skittles and gold dust so, A VOTE FOR HILLARY IS A VOTE FOR SKITTLES AND GOLD!

We win. Everyone likes Skittles and Gold. Since were just fantasizing anyway.

[JTFrog]

56. What is wrong with you? Seriously?

Last edited Mon Nov 2, 2015, 11:59 PM - Edit history (1)

You have trotted out every right wing or crackpot source possible to attack Hillary Clinton. If you had trotted out a bunch of right wing shit to attack Bernie you would have been tombstoned a long time ago.

Some other titles from the youtube channel you posted here: "The Young Turks DESTROYED - Planned Parenthood Videos are real", "Donald Trump's favorite jokes showing he speaks the truth", "The real reason Zayn Malik left One Direction. Demon, reptilian, shapeshifter, possessed?", "Donald Trump not scared by the Left. The billionaire clear Republican winner", etc...

I got news for you....

No one here gives a fuck what Ann Coulter, Rand Paul, Mika & Joe or any of the other assholes you trot out to bash a Democratic candidate says. Well, except those that hate hillary with the passion of a billion fires apparently.

For fuck's sake.

[Lisa D]

84. Thank you!!

[MohRokTah]

17. Voting MY conscience is voting HILLARY! eom

[riversedge]

30. Bingo!!

[workinclasszero]

70. +1000

eom

[Nanjeanne]

26. What is a Democrat?

I've been affiliated with the Democratic Party since I was eligible to vote. I have always been attracted to what I thought were Democratic party platforms. What I have increasingly gotten over the many many years is dismayed at the inability of the Democratic Party to fight for the values I once believed were central to their core. Times I've given money to the DNC. Times I've written across their appeals "grow a spine and I'll donate again". Worked very hard for Obama in the first election and dropped out of Organizing for America when he wouldn't fight for the public option. I don't call myself an independent because truthfully I cannot imagine actually voting for a Republican and independent seems to infer that I could swing that way. But I have never been a slave to the big "D" party. I'm more interested in small "d" policies. So I have no problem supporting Sanders even if it appears to be a big deal that he wasn't a formal member of the party. He has caucused solely with the Democrats for his entire career and to me, he is more of a "democrat" than a vast majority of those who carry the D next to their name.

I know if Clinton becomes the nominee - I will check her name off in the election because the Supreme Court is too important to me to run a risk that she loses. But I truly don't believe the vast number of young and new voters will make that same call. And I do wonder, if Sanders is "not electable" - but Clinton has adopted almost every one of his policies over the last few months (some say better late than never and I suppose there's some truth to that) ---- how is Clinton electable? Her policies are now just about the same. So it's obviously not policies that make Sanders unelectable to some? I'm more concerned that in September Clinton said ""You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center. I plead guilty," to the audience at a Women for Hillary event in Ohio. Then one month later she's claiming to be "a progressive". Hard to know which one to believe and therein lies the rub. My dilemma and a much bigger one than "Bernie isn't a REAL Democrat!".

[Thinkingabout]

33. Hillary has had her positions for many years, the last minimum wage increase she was a sponsor.

She did a presentation on healthcare to Congress in the 90's, she has been a long time advocate on women's rights, against violence against women worldwide, worked for Children's Defense Fund, pushed for children to have health care and education.

It is true Democratic policies have not gone far in the last few years, I will continue to fight for Democratic ideas. Thanks for supporting Hillary in the GE, she will work for us.

[pinebox]

39. On minimum wage, the differences between Bernie & Hillary

This is the differences between Bernie and Hillary on minimum wage

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/07/hillary_clinton_vs_bernie_sanders_democratic_frontrunners_disagree_on_wall_street_minimum_wage_and_trade/

More here http://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2015/07/should-hillary-fear-the-15-minimum-wage-000180

[Thinkingabout]

44. Sure isca big difference, she was a sponsor on the last national minimum wage increase and Sanders

Was not. Clinton also tried to get the minimum wage increases tied to congressional raises. My question on the $15 is why limit the minimum wage to $15?

[pinebox]

74. On minimum wage

First off, the whole "n the $15 is why limit the minimum wage to $15?" this is a very Republican and Libertarian talking point in order to justify that a raise in minimum wage isn't needed and would hurt businesses, you're aware of that, correct?

Secondly....Bernie introduced and co-sponsored the Minimum Wage Fairness Act in 2014. Provide me a link please to where Bernie didn't support minimum wage? Hillary wasn't a sponsor on this as she wasn't a Senator at the time.

[Thinkingabout]

117. You are right on the libertarian and republican talking points, I read a lot of them.

Since Sanders decided to run for president it must have dawned on him he needed to sponsor some bills on something. He has been in Congress for twenty five years, he had sponsored less bills than Clinton has in eight years and a big pile of bills in 2014 and a big pile in 2015. He has had twenty five years to get wage increases, for twenty four of those years it did not entice him to sponsor wage increases. This says a lot.

[pinebox]

132. you may want to back up

A growing number of cities—including Seattle, New York, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Newark, and others—are now led by progressive mayors. They are adopting municipal minimum wage laws, requiring developers to build mixed-income housing, strengthening regulations against corporate polluters, and enacting other policies to address the nation’s growing economic inequality and environmental crises.

What they can learn from Sanders is that good ideas are not sufficient. Creating more livable cities requires nurturing a core of activist organizations that can build long-term support for progressive municipal policies.
https://www.thenation.com/article/bernies-burlington-city-sustainable-future/

and why you repeating right wing talking points on here?

[Thinkingabout]

134. Oh, yea, the mayor in my city is only for 6 years, they dont have 25 years to learn.

[pinebox]

145. And what does that say

though about experience? A lot.

As I said, $15/hr helps to life people out of poverty much more than $12/hr. This will be an issue too and on the national stage, this is going to hurt Hillary drastically. The minimum wage is the one single issue which has a tendency to win elections. Bernie is out ahead on this.

That whole war hawk comment has me rather perplexed. You truly think Bernie is a war hawk?

[Thinkingabout]

147. I replied to your post #132, learning from Sanders who has had 25 years in congress and still does

not have very much to show for it, my mayor only as 6 years.

[JTFrog]

144. "why you repeating right wing talking points on here?"

Seriously?

You take the cake when it comes to right wing sources. Not only do you repeat the talking points, but you drag the most vile of the lot in here to atack a Democratic candidate. And you stomp your feet and scream at people to watch and listen to those fucking assholes because they all hate Hillary as much as you do.

You may want to back up and take that right turn you obviously missed. No one here is interested in your slimy right wing propaganda except your fellow haters.

[riversedge]

45. Two issues offhand in which Hillary differs from Sanders....

lst one is sanders platform says Medicare for all. That is laudable--I would want that and it is an issue would work for. Yet, I do not believe the US is ready for that. Sanders said how he would pay for it but really seems so much at this time. I see Colorado wants to put in on the ballot this fall. I hope they get it enacted--at the state level. Maybe the state level is the way to go for now. Hillary wants to expand it--like sanders, but it would be for those who need it most--such as the poor--the elderly==especially women. I forgot how paid for but it is on her website.


2nd one is College for all--as Sanders wants. Again laudable but how to pay for it is the problem. Again look at Hillary's website. She wants students to work 10 hrs weeks--a needs approach but grants expanded.

Anyway that is quick. Which brings me to your last comment. For me it is based on her experience in the wide world and SOS of working with people. sometimes one has to take smaller steps to anything done. the "....xxx for all" is entising but we have to deal Repug congress. Simple as that.



http://www.wdsu.com/politics/clinton-pleads-guilty-to-being-a-moderate/35201626

By Dan Merica
Clinton 'pleads guilty' to being a moderate
Published 12:52 PM CDT Sep 10, 2015
COLUMBUS, Ohio (CNN) —Hillary Clinton confessed Thursday to something liberals have long suspected: being a moderate Democrat.

"You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center," Clinton told the audience at a Women for Hillary event in Ohio. "I plead guilty."

The line is new for Clinton, who spent a large portion of her early campaign casting herself as a liberal fighter who has been progressive for her entire life. To many on the left, those lines never really rang true.

"I take a backseat to no one," Clinton told a New Hampshire audience in July, "When you look at my record in standing up and fighting for progressive values."

....................................

On Thursday, Clinton reiterated that willingness to compromise, telling the audience that while she would "meet anytime, anywhere with anyone to find common ground," she would also "stand my ground" on issues like abortion and women's rights, among others.

Clinton argued at the Columbus event that being in the "center" is a positive, not a negative.
......................

Before that Clinton told the audience that it was important for voters to demand specifics -- not just "broad stokes" -- from candidates.

"Some people want it to be about everything other than what they would do when they are president," Clinton said. "I think it really matters that people tell you what they will do and how they intend to do it, not just in broad stokes but in details. How are you the voters supposed to make up your minds?"
..........................
Before Clinton came on stage, Dana Ellis, a digital marketing strategist from the Columbus area, said that while Sanders has captured "the really progressive liberal arm of the party," Clinton's "more centrist Democrats understand that in order to win the White House you have to have a broader appeal."






your comment:

.......---- how is Clinton electable? Her policies are now just about the same. So it's obviously not policies that make Sanders unelectable to some? I'm more concerned that in September Clinton said ""You know, I get accused of being kind of moderate and center. I plead guilty," to the audience at a Women for Hillary event in Ohio. Then one month later she's claiming to be "a progressive". Hard to know which one to believe and therein lies the rub.



Sorry, I can not help you with this one.
My dilemma and a much bigger one than "Bernie isn't a REAL Democrat!".

[Qutzupalotl]

105. How to pay for it

Sanders wants public college paid for by a transaction tax on Wall Street, similar to DeFazio's bill. This will slow down high-frequency trading, which disadvantages small investors, most of whom cannot make thousands of trades per second.

So Sanders' plan does two things: it will help the average investor make money on Wall Street while helping more people get a college education.

[riversedge]

122. Good. thanks. Yet that

still leaves the problem of another "entitlement", which we know the Repug congress will go no where near it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. John Quincy Adams

[Pathwalker]

34. Isn't this a violation of DU copyright rules?

Which have a FOUR paragraph limit. After what happened last time, do yu really want to break this rule?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. I see 3 paragraphs among a number of disconnected sentences.

[pinebox]

41. Oh?

What happened last time? I'll gladly condense it but it's literally a snippet. The article itself is about 40 paragraphs.

[Pathwalker]

55. DU was sued by a group claiming copyright infringement.

They later won, but it was a long and expensive fight. DUers were put on notice to honor the four copyright rule. You can "Ask The Administrators" for guidance.

[Thinkingabout]

47. Yes, another article from HA Goodman, no slant to his writing, rag time.

[still_one]

52. Gee, all those Clinton supporters have no conscience. (Scarcasm)

[Sheepshank]

57. The article isn't valid...did you see what happened to prison stocks after one little Hillary tweet?

yeah, they are crapping their collective pants right now.

[Armstead]

60. I'm afraid to say it, but "conscience" has become an outmoded word these days

[Historic NY]

78. I am voting my conscience & I'll be conscious when I do it....

I'm voting tomorrow, its election day in NY.

[riversedge]

89. thank you.

[FloridaBlues]

83. Still hanging on that hope. The reality seems to be a different story tho

[riversedge]

86. State SurveyUSA #Georgia Poll: Nov 2 Clinton 73, Sanders 16

Iowa Dems just voted their conscience


PPP poll Iowa Nov 2: Clinton 57% Sanders 25% O'M 7%





http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2015/11/cruz-rising-in-iowa-clinton-back-out-to-dominant-lead.html#more

[GitRDun]

91. Fits the current theme for the Sanders voice on DU

If you have a conscience, are well informed, or some other positive characteristic, you will vote for Bernie.

If not, you'll vote for Hillary.

The arrogance of this narrative is a real turn off. Reduces the mindset to something that sounds like a cult.

Push Bernie's record as mayor. Push the constructive amendments he has pushed thru Congress....anything but inferring people who vote for Hillary are "less than", in some ways, Bernie supporters.

[brooklynite]

96. You'll let us know when that happens?

So far, it looks like the Democrats are going with Clinton.

[sadoldgirl]

98. I don't care about the writer, but

there is some truth to that statement.

In the beginning a lot of DUers said:"We like Bernie's ideas,
they are great, but he is a fringe candidate."

Next they said:" Bernie's ideas are great, but he is not
electable."

Next: "Yes, his ideas are good, buuuut what has he achieved?"
In spite of the fact that Bernie has won on a lot of amendments.

Then:" We like Bernie, but his supporters turn us off, therefore
we cannot vote for him."

By now we have reached the stage of implied sexism and
racism and other points.

So, yes, if people really agreed with his ideas and plans,
they would vote for him. Except for politics.

[BootinUp]

99. If this is from Goodman, I'll skip the whole thing. nt

[Babel_17]

109. Senator Sanders has struck a chord with discontented voters

And that sound is driving the establishment mad. MAD I say! lol

[Wotas]

121. His appeal seems to be universal

[riversedge]

123. What planet do you live on??

[Wotas]

124. I talk to a lot of people

Just regular, everyday people who aren't overly political or emotionally/financially invested in a Hillary presidency.

[Babel_17]

125. :) In some ways, discontent is universal

It's a matter of degree, but yeah, let's not rule out Sanders grabbing support from voters that others can't reach.

P.S. Welcome to DU!

[Wotas]

126. Hi, and thanks

[tritsofme]

130. Kind of reminds me of Goldwater's famous 1964 campaign slogan: "In your heart you know he's right"

and LBJ's classic rejoinder: "In your gut, you know he's nuts!"

[Koinos]

133. My conscience says O'Malley.

It just feels right.

[workinclasszero]

146. Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal.

Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal.

http://ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm