So is Bernie or bust openly advocating not

[upaloopa]

voting for the nominee in the general?
Are 1,000,000 pledges to write in Sanders in the general supposed to intimidate us ?

[Agschmid]

1. Honestly who cares?

Let's stop the division.

If that's their prerogative, go for it.

[JI7]

2. i agree

Most of these types usually want aTtention anyways

[Agschmid]

3. Yup.

[1StrongBlackMan]

4. Bernie or bust ... Brought you by the brothers Koch, the gop ...

and their useful, but principled, idiots.

[wendylaroux]

9. the kochs?

what?

[AgingAmerican]

11. Right, because the 'Ring Of Fire™' gang are the Koch brothers/GOP!

http://ringoffireradio.com/2015/07/24/bernie-or-bust-write-in-pledge-circulating-sign-up-today-and-make-your-voice-heard/

[1StrongBlackMan]

23. No ... They make up the useful idiot part ...

writing Bernie in at the G/E is stupid ... Maybe principled, but stupid, as it increases the gop's changes of winning the G/E.

[Fawke Em]

48. I consider the useful idiots the ones voting for that other candidate

who only gives lip service to progressive causes, but hops in bed with the corporations that are the root of many of those problems, myself.

That said: I'm no idiot.

I live in a red state. I can safely vote my conscience in the general election should Sanders not win the nomination. I probably will vote Green and Dem down-ticket. All my state's ECs will go to the Republican anyway, so my plan is not idiotic in the least. I simply will no longer vote for the corporate-owned candidate, no matter to which party that person belongs.

[1StrongBlackMan]

59. Your vote is your's to do as you will ...

I'm glad you plan to vote down ticket; but know, if enough vote Green or writing in Bernie (should he not be the Democratic nominee), we WILL end up with much worse than a corporate-owned President.

[randys1]

54. I had not heard of this insanity. Writing in Bernie in the GE?

Well, the good news my friend is you and I wont be talking about it together because we will be separated soon.

[1StrongBlackMan]

60. Yes ... my account was suspended earlier and I understand you might be sent to the corner, as well.

[sabrina 1]

70. I really wish Democrats would drop that term, I am no idiot, though definitely have been referred

to that way by Right Wingers, who have nothing else to offer.

Sickening really to see what is going on here. Advocate for your candidate, stop attacking other Democrats, disagree on the issues, but if the namecalling of Democratic voters doesn't stop, it is guaranteed that when their votes are needed, they just might not be there.

I wish SOMEONE in our party would realize that you 'win more flies with honey' and stop the divisive attacks on people who just might be needed not too long from now.

The Mid Terms ought to have caused people to understand that the attitude towards long time dems from within their own party is causing us to LOSE elections.

[Scootaloo]

12. Bernie supporters are "useful idiots" for the GOP?

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. Those pledging Bernie or bust ... YES! n/t

[Scootaloo]

25. Ah, okay. Do you feel the same about those who have such pledges going the other way as well?

One fellow has such as his signature, so I'm just curious if it goes both ways.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. Is there an online petition, or IRL petition urging people to write in any other candidate ...

should that person lose in the Democratic primary? ... Especially, when doing so runs counter to what that candidate stated he would not do ... for exactly the reason indicated above? I wasn't aware.

But ... I know of only one non-Bernie supporter that has made similar noises ... and, yes, I told them I thought they were making a mistake.

[Scootaloo]

36. Thanks, good to know.

[randys1]

55. IF Hillary people are pledging anything like this please inform me so I can work all day

all night for a year to stop them.

Do you have a link?

I really want to work on that.

[NCTraveler]

38. This. Nt

[PowerToThePeople]

5. It is time

It is way past time that our "representative" goverment represent us and not those which desire to harm, enslave, and/or kill us.

#BernieOrBust

[upaloopa]

7. Your 25% of the voters say it's your way or burn down the house?

Last edited Wed Nov 4, 2015, 09:49 AM - Edit history (1)

Maybe it is a repub plan to pull your string and you are being played for a sucker.

[PowerToThePeople]

8. Well considering

I was never going to cast a vote for HRC long before Sander's entered the race, I think your theory holds no water.

[upaloopa]

15. Your one person do you speak for everyone else?

[frylock]

19. Make that two people.

[JDPriestly]

30. Three. It's not anything against Hillary as a person. It is about the corruption that she

brings with her and that she represents.

I'm sure she is a loving grandmother and mother as well as a patient, loving wife.

But I will not vote for another corporate and Wall Street candidate. Unfortunately, that is what Hillary is.

I owe it to my grandchildren to vote against the corruption.

[Comrade Grumpy]

47. Four. I am not voting for Hillary Clinton.

Too hawkish on foreign policy.

Too tied to Wall Street.

If I wanted that, I'd vote for the Republicans.

[brush]

90. Think of the Supreme Court

[Dr. Doolittle]

95. 5. Those who wants Clinton can find support elsewhere.

Not from me. I've had enough of the two evils bullshit.

[brush]

89. Think of the Supreme Court

And I mean that to Hillary or bust voters also.

[brush]

88. Think of the Supreme Court

And I mean that to Hillary or bust voters also.

[frylock]

105. I dont live in a swing state.

[brush]

87. Think of the Supreme Court

And I mean that to Hillary or bust voters also.

[artislife]

33. 45%, I heard is independent.

They have decided to abandon both houses. Maybe 25% is going to join them.

Both parties should ask themselves if they make a good product anymore.

[randys1]

56. Just means you and I have less days off for the next year.

To prevent Women dying in back alleys, to prevent Women going to prison for receiving healthcare, to prevent doctors from going to prison, to prevent Black people from being told they will not vote unless they have the exact 7 forms of ID needed

To prevent this, you and I must work that much harder to cancel out those who will willingly bow out of the process regardless of the results.

[zappaman]

6. I don't think people have thought thru the ramifications of "bust".

[brooklynite]

10. Question: does advocating "Bernie or Bust" constitute violating TOS in advance of the Primary?

[ibegurpard]

27. purifying DU ain't going to change it

All you Hillary people better figure out why she's not generating any enthusiasm with a very significant slice of the electorate and get a plan in place to deal with it. Sticking your fingers in your ears isn't going to cut it. Telling people how awful the Republicans are isn't going to cut it.

Obama lost a big chunk of voters between 2008 and 2012. 2008 was a campaign run (deceptively in my opinion) on hope and change. 2012 was a campaign run on how scary the Republicans are. Hillary can't run on hope and change.

[Armstead]

13. I don't advocate that but I understand the anger behind it

The Democratic Party's only role has become to prevent the awfulness of the GOP on certain issues. And to keep the sanctimonious GOP from setting the tone.

But beyond that? The Democratic Establishment is hardly much better on actually protecting us from the monopolization of the economy and the gutting of the middle/working/poor majority.

[NCTraveler]

14. Let me see if I get this.

If Clinton wins the primary, one million Sanders supporters are going to write Sanders in? I hadn't seen this. So we would elect one of these clowns on the right and everyone would know the election was given to them. That's assuming Clinton wouldn't win anyway. If that's what they feel is in their best interests, have at it. Unfortunately the country would lurch right.

Are you sure what you are saying is really being promoted by Sanders supporters. Most of them here say they will vote Clinton in the general.

[m-lekktor]

16. I never head of it until this thread! I just now googled the phrase Bernie or Bust.

There's a facebook page and a website. Revolt against plutocracy and/or Citizen's against Plutocracy. I haven't read any of it yet but i have it bookmarked for later.

[upaloopa]

18. here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128068973

[m-lekktor]

21. thanks! i havent looked at your link yet but i glanced at their facebook page

and there are only 4000 or so likes which isn't that many and it seems like this idea has been around since last summer so it doesn't appear to have amounted to much so far.

[MineralMan]

75. That poster has been show the exit door.

a PPR was the reward for that post.

[OilemFirchen]

106. The PPR was OUR reward.

I'm gonna spend it like a crazy fool.

[upaloopa]

17. It was from a post in the Bernie group tonight

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128068973

[NCTraveler]

22. Revolution isn't suppose to be about...

Giving your strongest opposition more power. Does that need to be said out loud?

[upaloopa]

24. This might be a repub trick.

I don't think Bernie would advocate it.

[Scootaloo]

26. He's said he will not split the vote.

So no, I'm pretty sure Sanders would endorse Clinton and not support such a "splitter" movement, should he not be the nominee.

[JDPriestly]

31. He would not advocate it, but I cannot in good conscience vote to put another corporate mouthpiece

in the White House.

Corporations can be great and have their rights and their place, but they should not be running the country as they have for decades now.

[JackInGreen]

32. Honestly JD, me either

But if it came down to it I'd prefer the devil I know if our compatriots (and they are) manage to crucify the only non-devil we've got.

[brush]

92. Think of the Supreme Court

And I mean that to Hillary or bust voters also.

[randys1]

57. Well, it could work since death and destruction will occur overnight if teaparty

takes over everything.

Then and only then will people wake the fuck up.

Maybe.

[MineralMan]

78. That poster is no longer a DUer.

[SheilaT]

28. Keep in mind that the PUMA's in

2008 threatened the same thing, and much closer to the general election than we are right now. Everyone needs to chill. Everyone.

[JDPriestly]

29. I can only speak for myself. I will write in Bernie if Hillary is the nominee. I live in Californi

We vote last. The winner is usually pretty obvious by the time we vote. I will vote for all Democratic candidates, especially my wonderful member of the House, but not for Hillary.

I do not want to have voting for Hillary on my conscience.

We have a wonderful time to clean up our government and institute social programs we need with Bernie's presidency.

It would be a violation of my moral standards to vote for anyone other than Bernie in this election. America needs Bernie. I cannot settle for second best. We need Bernie.

[randys1]

58. Does that mean you can no longer post on DU? I think it does.

[restorefreedom]

62. nope.. our votes belong to us

all it means is that after the convention, if hillary is the nom, that posters actively campaigning for another ge candidate will probably be suspended.

we can still post about other issues and even the ge as long as we don't come on here and tell people not to vote for hillary (if she is the nom) or dems in other races.

kind of ironic..there is a post daily here telling people they must pledge loyalty to her yet after the primaries we won't be able to advocate for someone else....interesting....

[randys1]

65. But wait, the TOS says this

Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground.

Saying you will not vote for Hillary or write in Bernie's name, is the same as this and means anyone doing that should be permanently banned.

[restorefreedom]

68. but it was ok in 08.......

mm hmmmmm..

besides, it is not the ge yet its primary season

and du can't require loyalty oaths as much as some here would like to see it

[whatchamacallit]

81. A website trying to dictate someone's vote is as unenforceable as it is reprehensible

And that's why the TOS makes the no advocating or suppressing distinction. DU can't follow you into the voting booth or compel you to honestly state your intentions. I can see where you wanna go with this, but it's a waste of time.

[randys1]

86. All anybody is talking about is advocating on this site, some of these big supporters wont vote

regardless of who is the nominee, that has nothing to do with it

[whatchamacallit]

98. That's their right

they are simply stating their personal feelings and affirming their right to vote how they please.

[JDPriestly]

100. I will support all Democratic candidates except Hillary.

We shall have to see what happens after the election.

Are you planning to vote for Bernie?

If not, why not?

[brush]

93. Think of the Supreme Court

And I mean that to Hillary or bust voters also.

[JDPriestly]

99. Yes. Think of it. I want Bernie appointing our next Supreme Court justices.

I want Bernie appointing our next presidential cabinet.

I do not want another daughter or son of Wall Street making those appointments.

What do you have against voting for Bernie?

[brush]

102. I'm still undecided but I know I will vote for the Dem nominee in the general election

Either of our big two are hundreds of times better than Carson or Trump.

[Lyric]

35. If a pack of ignorant, privileged fools can't see a difference between Clinton and Ben Carson

then logic and reason are wasted on them. Just ignore them. Nothing can dissuade a fanatic.

[NurseJackie]

37. Mall-Rats need to be ignored.

Outside of this website is the real world. They gather and congregate here in numbers and percentages that don't exist in the real world.

Imagine being in a shopping mall that appears to be overflowing with loud and obnoxious "slacker" teens. Based on these surroundings, it would be easy to assume that ALL teens are slackers, but that's not reality. The ones you can't see, the ones who don't congregate at the shopping mall are busy doing other things. They're not being loud and obnoxious. They're not shoplifting or blocking the corridors.

Keep things in perspective, and realize that what you're seeing here does not represent reality. (At least not in the numbers and percentages that would make any difference outside of this website.)

[ibegurpard]

42. reality is Kentucky and Houston

Keep whistling past the graveyard. Hillary better find a way to enthuse disaffected voters.

[NurseJackie]

43. They're not worth my time. Why bother?

They've made their pledge and their promise, so I take them at their word.

Although, the frequency with which they announce their intentions suggests to me that they REALLY do want attention, and that they REALLY want others to try and convince them to vote anyway. People like that are feeling helpless and frustrated, so their actions and words are intended to create an illusion that they matter more than everyone else. They're fooling themselves, but they're not fooling me.

Hillary will be the nominee, and they won't vote for her. No amount of pleading or logic or rational explanations will dissuade them from their mission of spoiled-sport, sour-grapes, sore-loser revenge. Okay. I accept that and I'm fine with it.

They'll do what they need to do and they'll have no effect on the outcome of the general election.

I'll gladly take a moment to write about my take on what (and why) they behave this way, but to interact with them and try to convince them otherwise is pointless.

[ibegurpard]

46. And you will lose

How many lost elections will it take for you to get that message?

[NurseJackie]

49. Disgruntled fringe voters seriously overestimate their importance. Not worth my time.

[brush]

94. You must mean disaffected Sanders DUers as she leading big among Dems in most polls

[Sheepshank]

107. Bernie or bust vocal group encourage low information voters (which a large amount of electorate)

to walk away from the polls.....these people know exactly what they are doing and who they effectively are helping. Rove is rubbing his hands with glee.

[MoonRiver]

45. So true. And pretty soon they will just be talking to themselves.

eom

[restorefreedom]

74. keep at the rhetoric

you are just making sure that even more people assert to not vote clinton in the unlikely event she becomes the nominee

i see you read the classic "how to win friends and influence people" might want to share a copy with the campaign,...she could use the help

[brush]

96. Think of the Supreme Court

And I mean that to Hillary or bust voters also.

[restorefreedom]

101. its is an issue for sure

but i am not going to vote for an unacceptable candidate out of fear. that is how totalitarian regimes "get" votes.

if the dem party wants to win, they can stop rigging the process for a candidate that doesn't stand at all for democratic ideals but instead represents the plutocracy and the MIC. If they lose this and the Supreme Court goes down, you will need to speak to Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the party elites and ask them why they threw it to the republicans.

a captive vote does not advance democracy imo

[Lyric]

109. I'm weary of coddling crybabies. nt

[99Forever]

39. Intimidate?

Ya mean like threats of "we're gonna kick ya out of our club if ya don't take our Loyal to The Powers That Be Oath?"

How's the 1,000,000 attempts to force that on your fellow Democrats that aren't "intimidated" by your authoritarian bullshit working out for ya?

[quickesst]

63. "Loyal to The Powers That Be Oath?"

Care to link me to a copy of that, or is this more made up shit? Your quotation marks, not mine. Thanks

[99Forever]

66. I don't "care" to do jackshit for you.

In fact, if I could possibly "care" less about what you think, I would.

[quickesst]

69. Haha....

That's okay. I already knew you couldn't do it............Jack.

[LWolf]

40. I've never heard of Bernie or Bust.

As long as they are not advocating for that here on DU, though, they are certainly free to do so, just as all citizens are free to cast their vote the way they see fit.

Are you concerned?

[Bobbie Jo]

41. Yeah...

Then don't vote for her.

I don't get the need to make a big production of it.

I suppose if Skinner wants to use his bandwidth for this campaign, that's his prerogative.

[NurseJackie]

44. They're feeling helpless and frustrated. They are pouting. They're having a tantrum.

By announcing their intentions, they expect to be coddled and validated by other like-minded individuals.

Or, they're wanting to feel powerful by provoking a reaction. They want others to respond and try to convince them to do otherwise.

It's all a game that's not worth playing. They've made up their minds, and I'll happily take them at their word and move on to something that's infinitely more productive.

Just like dealing with a toddler. If they have a public tantrum, they hope to get attention (even if they don't get their way). The attention is, itself, the reward.

This "reward" only encourages the same type of behavior again and again.

Any attempts to "negotiate" or to explain and reason with them is also to acknowledge their vanity. It won't change their mind, but it WILL guarantee more of the same behavior.

[restorefreedom]

72. taking back one's democracy is not helpless, it is action

standing and watching your campaign follow the same losing trajectory it did in 08 sounds worse, hence the vicious attacks. its desperation, but not on our part.

#bernieorbust2016

[NurseJackie]

79. Okay. Follow your heart. Do whatever you think is best.

[restorefreedom]

80. i hope we all follow our hearts. nt

[brooklynite]

82. But if Clinton has a "losing trajectory", then you don't need a "Bernie or Bust" movement, do you?

This seems to come from the belief that Clinton will win unless some people threaten to hold their breath until they turn blue.

[restorefreedom]

84. never hurts to have insurance

the b.o.b movement has stated that if/when bernie gets the nom, their mission is basically moot, and that would be a good thing.

[brooklynite]

91. Sort of like a mugger putting the knife away when you hand over your wallet?

[restorefreedom]

97. use a nonpredudicial analogy

and i will be happy to answer the question

[brooklynite]

103. A non-prejudicial analogy...

...for a scenario threatening dire consequences if you don't get what you want in the Primary?

Let me think about that.

[restorefreedom]

104. it has nothing to do with what we want

that is clintonthought. we care about the country and getting it back from the corporate power mongers.

unlike clinton, sanders cares about more than getting himself into the wh

answer your question?

[Sheepshank]

50. Voter intimidation at it's finest. And you though it was only the GOP's practice.

"If you don't all vote for Bernie, you will suffer by having a Republican in the Whiltehouse."

Are we absolutely positive this movement wasn't started by Rove?

[Autumn]

51. Your concerns are unfounded.

[Cosmic Kitten]

52. Moor BASHING Bernie!!!111!1

[pinebox]

53. It's not about tantrums or being angry

On the contrary.

I myself am an Indy voter. I support Bernie and I voted for Obama.
I don't support Hillary and I don't see her as representing me at all. The issues and where she stands sounds a great deal more like a conservative Dem than anything else. She's not Elizabeth Warren and I wish people would stop trying to cosplay her as such.

I'm personally sick of the whole "lesser of 2 evils" bullshit and many of us are. For many of us, we see Bernie as a big change from the current political landscape. I myself am backlogged almost $100k in student loan debt. So far nothing Hillary says has made me change my mind. I'm also a gun owner, I live in the mountains in Colorado. Yes, guns are needed here because "Bears don't care" and quite frankly, neither do Mountain Lions. I'll tell ya, when you see a Mountain Lion at 6am watching you, you'll change your opinion quickly on guns.

I benefited from Obamacare, in fact, I have a personal letter here from POTUS after I sat down and wrote him how it saved my life. I was one of the very first people in the country to be allowed into the high risk exchanges before the ACA was even available to the public due to a very rare and deadly non smoking related lung disease. I've also lived in Germany, as I married a German and I've seen single payer in action. Guess what? It's far superior.

No, it's not about having temper tantrums, sorry. People are downright pissed and they're sick and tired of corporate candidates with special interest corporate backed SuperPACs getting them elected. We're fed up while we work our asses off and can't barely get by. Hillary wants $12 minimum wage, Bernie wasnt $15. That's a huge difference to many of us. That's $480 a month!

Sorry, this is about life. It's about who survives. It's THAT simple.

[restorefreedom]

61. it puts the onus on the centrists to unify and win

they will have two choices. They can unite behind Bernie and win it all, or they can stick with their untrustworthy nonelectable candidate and watch a Republican get into the White House. But it won't be the fault of the progressives it will be the fault of the Democratic establishment elite who tried to force a corporate owned hawk down our throats and didn't think we would fight back.

#bernieorbust2016

[brooklynite]

64. It does indeed...

...it put the onus on the Clinton supporters to build a national broad-based alliance of liberals, centrists, men, women, whites, blacks, hispanics AND appeal to sane, moderate suburban Republicans and Independents, rather than kowtow to a handful (and that's all there are) of holier than thou chest-thumpers threatening to take their ball and go home.

[restorefreedom]

67. good luck with that

most repubs i know would crawl through a raging blizzard for the chance to vote against clinton. but hey, its always good to dream......

and its not about chest thumping.lts about reclaiming our democracy from the establishment elitists who don't give a shit about us ...just the 1% and the mic.

and if you think its just a handful of us.....well i guess you will be surprised come elections day

[NurseJackie]

76. Perfectly described. And exactly that's why we will win.

They're playing power dodge-ball, and we're playing chess. They're screaming, we're thinking. They want to win an argument, we want to win an election.

[SidDithers]

71. Yes. And it goes against the TOS to do so...nt

Sid

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

73. If candidates want the votes of the Left they should appeal to the Left.

"Not as bad" has lost it's thunder.

[lame54]

77. you've been intimidated since the day he announced...

yet pretend not to be

[MineralMan]

83. Apparently it is. There is a pledge they ask people to sign.

I'd consider this to be pretty unconscionable for a DUer to advocate, and one DUer was PPRed for advocating signing that pledge already.

Such a pledge is likely to be a tipping point for DU posting privileges, I think.

[Sheepshank]

108. a pledge? OMFG, A PLEDGE!!!!!

I was told there is a vocal group here that doesn't do pledges. Now, I wonder who would be trying to implement and promote such an absurdity? Surely not someone on the Left?

[m-lekktor]

85. The person who posted that thread in the Bernie group about "Bernie or Bust"

has been PPR'd for posting it by EarlG, FYI! That might answer some questions people have!

[mkc87]

110. Bernie or Bust

I feel that Bernie or Bust means just that, after 7 years of do nothing half measures, 5% change, and government run by and for multi-national corporations. All while hearing about all the things the president can't do, while he's giving the shop away to corporations and his golden sacks buddies. I'm so sick of it. I would rather vote for Bernie Sanders as a write in than to vote again Republican Light, the lesser of two evils is still plenty evil.