2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumI went to the grocery store today. A Clinton Sanders divergence.
I blurted out "you have to be shitting me" for 3.98 each for tomatoes. A nice lady I didn't know (know her now) was there and I apologized for the ugly language. We started discussing the economy.
Later, I arrived at the checkout counter, and a lovely African American lady and her child were in the line behind me.
I'm not exactly certain how we got on the topic of voting for Clinton, but the white cashier and the AA standing right by me both said they can't stand her.
I brought up Sanders. "I've heard about him, isn't he the one that is not launching negative campaigns"? I had three different people discussing how much better it would be to elect Sanders. The lady that had a book in front of me stopped and listed places where you could register to vote.
I do more every damn day without getting paid for it to get Bernie Sanders elected than a SuperPAC ever could. So can everybody else. Our daily lives - that is what he wants to improve.
To be honest, I'd be depressed as hell if Hillary Clinton was my candidate, strictly because of the maudlin air that they can't win unless they go into the gutter.
I am *PROUD* of Bernie Sanders.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)In the real world she was voted most admired women in the world 14x.
Talking to people in the grocery store is not a slice of humanity, because no one needs milk, bread and vegetables.
Try it. Stand in a grocery store line and mention Hillary Clinton.
Do it. Red State, Blue State, Purple State.
This is my challenge.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)A store where everyone of those who aren't rich have to go to get food, etc. is a better place to get a snapshot of the middle class (or those who once were part of the middle class) that is more representative of the various segments of society than a church is.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Should you be ignoring their opinion when judging what America feels by who you talk to at church? And if it is a protestant church, what about Catholics? Or if at a Catholic church, what about Protestants?...
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)I happen to be Catholic, but one might say a cafeteria Catholic.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... from those supporting Hillary to back up your claim that they support her like the ones in your church do?
The point is that when you go to places where the demographics or other characteristics of the crowd is slanted, you really can't make conclusions on how they represent the country's views.
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)The men a were work with are very sexist: but they
know that the GOP on their friends
lewebley3
(3,412 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)how anyone could think that every day encounters that you have with people is not a reflection of what they think. I'm not sorry that I didn't conduct a poll of 300 land line owners.
I just opened my mouth and asked. I'm not getting paid for it, I'm just doing it anyway.
Buzz cook
(2,474 posts)I'd say each individual store reflect the demographics of the area it serves. No one store can represent all economic, racial, or cultural strata of the US.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)don't confine it to the grocery store. Do it at the dry cleaners, waiting for your order at a fast food place, while you are getting your oil changed, or whenever you feel comfortable doing so.
DO IT.
That is the best poll you will ever get - face to face.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Sorry buddy, but everyone I know is voting for Hillary. The only people I've ever heard share vituperative sentiments about HRC are rightwingers and DU.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to bring up her name anywhere. The waiting room of the doctors office (Probably time for all of us to get a flu shot, but I digress), getting an oil change, the dry cleaners, even the place you pick up takeout from.
Discuss Hillary Clinton and her many policies.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)You're not enlightening any of us with this "revolutionary" concept of engaging in dialogue.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I don't think it's revolutionary, it's a reminder to engage in a positive conversation with people.
We all need reminders at times to be kind.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)All I heard was praise about how "presidential" she seemed at the debate, and how "overly qualified" she is. And I live in a very liberal part of Manhattan NY.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Excuse me then for doing the heavy lifting because I live on the Gulf Coast. In Mississippi, and I am still tough enough to inject some liberal into the folks around me.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)MS possibly be the reason you never hear good things about Hillary? Oh wait, your op was about Bernie. Did YOU even take your challenge?
Aerows
(39,961 posts)But I can get more Bernie Sanders votes by speaking to people than I will get for Hillary.
I have Republican folks saying he is sensible.
How many Republicans in your neighborhood have you flipped?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Not exactly a conservative bastion...and I seldom hear anyone even talking about Hillary (and if I do, it's most often some variation of "I don't trust her" . Bernie stickers seem to outnumber hers by about 5-to-1, easy. I don't think there's ever been a pro-Hillary post in my Facebook feed. I don't know where this big lead in the polls is occurring, but it sure isn't in my orbit.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)how there can be such high poll numbers of Hillary Clinton winning with so little enthusiasm among the people day to day.
You honestly can't trust the polls anymore, and I'd say that if Bernie was winning them, too.
Our press has become too compromised to trust.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The only two people I know who support Hillary here are both politicians themselves; a state representative and a city council member who also happens to be a DHS lawyer. Both part of the third way.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)There's a reason why Bernie's getting those crowds there and Hillary's campaign CAN'T get those kind of crowds supporting her. And it isn't that more people like Hillary than Bernie!!!
bvar22
(39,909 posts)and everyone I spoke to LOVED Hillary.
You just need to start hanging with some Hedge Fund Managers,
and you'll gain an entirely different insight into Hillary.
I'm just not hanging out with the right class of people. .
That pleases me.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)Yeah, I'm sure you're speaking to a broad demographic such as people making 7.25/hr with no personal savings or wealth.
Might want to try outside of somewhere property sells in 7 digit territory on the low end.
litlbilly
(2,227 posts)lewebley3
(3,412 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)And guess what, she didn't wind up as president then either did she!
Yes, keep echoing the corporate media meme that she's inevitable like they tried and FAILED to do then, when people were hoping that "Hope and Change" would change things for the better then, when things were screwed up by corporate America then too. Now people are wiser and want more depth than just nebulous promises, which Bernie is offering them.
The Republicans now are divided too, when the Tea Partiers, as deluded and racist as they are, are equally frustrated with corporate Republicans screwing them over too. We're at a time where Americans are looking for some REAL change, not just falsely promised "change" in our government. Hillary doesn't represent that change... Sorry!
grasswire
(50,130 posts)ToxMarz
(2,169 posts)Everyone knows so many truths and lies about her and her President husband. More than they even care to know and most don't know which is true and which is a lie. Not from seeking the information, it's been pounded into their heads by suppoters and detractors alike. So people's reaction will be measurably different and more intense than when compared to the reaction of "I've heard of him, isn't he the one that....".
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Just like they know all about Coke and Pespi.
Name recognition is her #1 asset.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)Bring up her name anywhere that you have to wait a minute.
See what it gets you.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)... because nobody likes her?
That's kind of along the lines of "nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded".
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)...all over again.
Everybody hates Hillary which is why she owns Bernie hard in all the polls.
Poll loser logic I guess?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... but as STATISTICS AND POLLS SHOW, she IS NOT!!! And I believe that Corporate America is far more interested in keeping Bernie down than they were Obama back in 2007, so he's not doing badly against their Citizen's United enabled power at this point.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)... not 2008. And as has been pointed out repeatedly, Bernie Sanders is NO Obama - not even close.
This notion that because Obama - an extraordinary campaigner, politician, eloquent speaker, etc - beat HRC for the nomination seven years ago means that BS will do so as well is - well, just plain silly. Different times, different players, different dynamics.
By your logic, BS should never have entered the race in the first place, because he has lost elections in the past - and, ya know, if he lost an election in the past, that means he's going to lose this one, too.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Many who voted for Obama then were disappointed when his nebulous references to hope and change about how he'd "renegotiate NAFTA" got him votes against Clinton at the time. But this time around, I think people will be even MORE on board with Sanders when they see he's got more depth in his positions and detail on how he will work to fix the broken and corrupt system that both parties have made with their bargains with the corporate devil with Koch brothers money funding both the Republicans AND the DLC that the Clintons were so much attached to during Bill's presidency then.
YOUR opinion that Sanders is nothing like Obama! Not facts!
Obama probably should be happy that Star Trek's Seven of Nine star Jeri Ryan had a big nasty split with her Republican senator hubby that opened up the senate seat for Obama to get a lot easier than if he had not been a tainted incumbent getting out of the race. He might have lost the race he had for senator then too.
When did I say a pol can't get elected when they've lost in the past? I was just trying to parallel the earlier election which had many of the same dynamics in it that this one has in it (more well known Clinton with better name recognition leading early and falling later). Just because she's ahead, doesn't mean she has it wrapped up. We haven't even had the second debate yet, let alone any primaries. That election shows that with many similarities to this one, the numbers aren't there yet to conclude that its over. Democracy doesn't work that way where decide votes before votes are cast, in case you hadn't heard, even if Clinton people want it to.
Bernie's numbers over the last few months have been growing at a faster pace than Obama's did at that time in his election. And yes, Obama can make the case that he was less opposed by corporate interests than Bernie probably is now. But the dynamics this time is that many of the voters out there of all parties are FED F'ING UP with BOUGHT politicians and the corporate corruption that exists, and that will help Sanders more than any other candidate. Trump is trying to get Republican populists to get on his bandwagon too, but ultimately that won't work for the voters at large.
NanceGreggs
(27,818 posts)Watching BS supporters claim that BS is nothing like Obama or exactly like Obama, depending on which meme is convenient at the moment.
Puglover
(16,380 posts)Very liberal city. Last Saturday we had our blocks progressive dinner. 24 folks showed up. White, Asian, AA. Young, elderly and in between.
Politics was not the main topic but when it did come up the UNIVERSAL comment was, "Yeah, like we need another Clinton or Bush."
And we don't have a Republican (that I know of) living on this block.
If Hillary's fans on DU think that EVERYONE is as "excited" about her as they are, they are kidding themselves.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)With everyone you ask. We need another Bush or another Clinton like we need an additional hole in our heads.
I do not give a fig what the MSM is pushing - real human beings, people that you talk to are inspired to choose a different candidate. Those two are more of the same.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)I've heard from random and known people and seen on Facebook, Twitter, etc:
No more Clintons or Bushes, please!
And this is across the ideological spectrum.
SusanaMontana41
(3,233 posts)No more Clintons. No more Bushes.
Then Bernie came along. Now I get to vote FOR somebody instead of voting AGAINST somebody.
HUGE difference.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)👍!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)EOM
Aerows
(39,961 posts)that doesn't actually open their mouth and discuss issues that they can be fixed.
Unless a magical candidate comes along.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I was worried about you there for a while. Hope you're doing better.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I guess I'm rabid.
To answer you, I'm doing fantastic. It was a rough couple of months, I had shots injected directly into the bite wound, but you can hardly see it, now.
I would hope that you and yours never endure anything of that sort.
But hey, use any ammunition you can to see if it hits a target?
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)I'm glad you're feeling better.
We're on each others team.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)you and I would ever be on would be ... difficult in the ability to produce the desired goals of the team.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)what's wrong with Hillary....
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Extremism in the defense of virtue is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of disingenuous acceptance is no virtue or to put it colloquially I couldn't care less what some people think of me.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I am a guy ...I couldn't care less that you thought I was a girl... I do think your observation reveals more about you, Mr. Poet, than it can ever reveal about me.
Oh, hard for me to be a Goldwater anything as I was a gleam in my father's eye at the time of his doomed presidential candidacy.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)But with you paraphrasing Goldwater, and Hillary's history, I just couldn't resist saying it.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)-John Poet
So you write things you know to be untrue?
Response to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #108)
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DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)The right to self defense is well established by custom and by law.
Thank you in advance.
I will add much of my responses are more tongue in cheek than born out of actual malice.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)And now you've answered it.
However, I may start referring to all Hillary supporters who paraphrase Goldwater as "Goldwater Girls" regardless of sex... I don't want the guys to feel left out.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)I am a fan of Stan Musial, and he was done playing baseball before I was born. He's dead now and I am still a fan
I believe he was pointing out that you were quoting Goldwater in defense of Hillary, which is sort of tragic.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I am a fan of Stan Musial, and he was done playing baseball before I was born. He's dead now and I am still a fan
I believe he was pointing out that you were quoting Goldwater in defense of Hillary, which is sort of tragic.
If ignorance was painful, the Tea Party would support health care."
-Gore1Fl
I am not a huge fan of Barry Goldwater but I did appreciate it when be basically told Jerry Falwell to f--- off, ergo:
"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."
-Barry Goldwater
I bet given enough time there is something you did I would/could appreciate.
<DSB chuckles as his fan club swells>
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)I support Hillary if she gets the nomination, for example.
I do hate it when people misrepresent Sanders or Clinton either positively or negatively. This thread is about as convincing for Sanders as the pay-for poll Hillary thread that you created a while back.
No one can predict the momentum generated in the early contests. In 2003, I wouldn't have bet on Kerry being the nominee in 2004. In 2007, I wouldn't have bet on Obama in 2008. In 1991 I wouldn't have bet on Clinton being the nominee in 2004. In 1987, I wouldn't have bet on Dukakis. In 1983 I predicted Mondale, but I didn't predict the traction Hart had. In 1975 I thought Udall had it.
Will the nominee be Clinton, Sanders or O'Malley in 2016? "There is not enough information to know now" is the correct answer.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)PHOENIX, March 21 When he said Government had no business trying to outlaw abortion, some people told him to retire from politics.
When he spoke out in favor of a new Phoenix ordinance protecting homosexuals from discrimination, and said they should be able to serve in the military, that got him in more trouble.
And when former Senator Barry Goldwater, an Arizona institution who has been compared with the Grand Canyon among this state's icons, endorsed a Democratic woman for Congress over a self-proclaimed "Goldwater Republican" in 1992, he was called a traitor. The Democrat, Karan English, won. Iconoclasm in Arizona
Now, after Mr. Goldwater said last week that Republicans in Congress should get off President Clinton's back about the Whitewater affair, critics say that the author of "The Conscience of a Conservative," the man sometimes called the father of modern American conservatism, has become -- close your ears, Rush Limbaugh -- a liberal.
...
"A lot of people who think of themselves as Goldwater Republicans do not know what it really means to be a Goldwater Republican," said Tom Paniccia, a former Air Force sergeant who was discharged from the military last year after he had proclaimed his homosexuality. "He has always had a near libertarian stance on keeping government out of people's lives."
At the time, Mr. Goldwater wrote a letter on Mr. Paniccia's behalf to Senator Sam Nunn, the Georgia Democrat who heads the Armed Services Committee and is an opponent of homosexuals in the military.
Leaders of gay groups around the country are fond of quoting a recent statement of Mr. Goldwater's: "I don't care if a soldier is straight, as long as he can shoot straight."
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/24/us/goldwater-defending-clinton-conservatives-feeling-faint.html
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)I guess she and he both "evolved" from their stances supporting Civil Rights for POC? Bernie was protesting segregation in those days in Univ. of Chicago, being that CONSISTENT politician on his stances that people like about him. We don't see him reneging on things like Obama did when he nebulously said he'd "renegotiate NAFTA and other free trade deals", as if he were going to work to get them taken down for those of us who hated them, and hate TPP now too.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Ms. Rodham, one of the schools standout debaters, was a proud Barry Goldwater supporter (she wore a hat with an AuH2O logo) and an active member of the Young Republicans. But the teacher, Jerry Baker, was intent on challenging her to argue the other side.
Always a dutiful student, she agreed, settling into the library to pore for hours over Johnsons positions on civil rights, foreign policy and health care. She prepared with such ardor and delivered such a compelling case that she even convinced herself. By the time Ms. Rodham graduated from college, she was a Democrat.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/11/us/politics/in-debate-hillary-clinton-will-display-skills-honed-over-a-lifetime.html?_r=1
As to the relative merits of the Vermont independent and Secretary Clinton I am content to let my fellow Democratic primary voters sort it out. That's how we roll in America.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)peddling influence along the wa and collecting dirty corporate money.
Kamala Harris did it in her own. So did Elizabeth Warren. They are much more deserving of our respect and admiration than someone who wears a sandwich board readin "For Sale To Highest Bidder"...
I don't know, maybe she just enjoys a good laugh as her corporate pals step on the throats of millions of poor and working class Americans... How that woman sleeps at night I'll never know.
Bernie, on the other hand, has always had the backs of the poor and working class. And he always will. Win or lose, he's not for sale, and that's what scares the GOP and corporate power brokers. They're not scared of Hillary, they already bought a controlling interest in her campaign.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and signing people up to vote is something we don't want to do?
Um, yeah. You can just fire the phone bankers, too, because they might seem like they give a crap about the election too much.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Perfect!
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)It's not as if she was destined to be a bar maid...Before anybody says that's classist, my old man was a bartender, a stevedore, and a itinerant salesperson. I worked as a bouncer and bartender to put myself through college.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)short of brilliant.
That doesn't make her beneficial as the leader of our nation. Which is the criteria under which she is being evaluated.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Her resume would be miles ahead of Bernie. Which she is according to the polls.
Response to JaneyVee (Reply #24)
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Hillary has policy proposals, union endorsements, party endorsements, civil rights hero's endorsements, and is supremely qualified. She has excoriated foreign governments about human rights abuses to their faces in their own countries and has spread diplomacy and philanthropy around the globe. She has been voted most admired woman in the world 14x. She hast vast knowledge on a wide range of global and domestic issues, and is remarkable at building coalitions. And she's a proud Democrat with experience of putting her foot deep inside Republican assholes.
Response to JaneyVee (Reply #36)
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)What have you accomplished?
Response to JaneyVee (Reply #42)
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)As far as getting past my job interview, Mrs. Clinton will not make it through the resume screening. Based on her resume, it was decided before she announced who would get my vote: not her.
It's an interesting way of thinking about a candidate's record as a resume for a job interview. Lying about your history (DOMA, guns) doesn't usually work for most jobs. The Presidency must be a singular position in that respect.
Response to JonLeibowitz (Reply #38)
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JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)But instead look at the issues and your values and see how the candidates stack up and how consistently. But that's just my method. You may have yours.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)People keep mistaking having heard of someone with actual enthusiasm.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Response to JaneyVee (Reply #1)
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Aerows
(39,961 posts)and I am not pleased with the position she takes on issues.
As I related from my experience in the grocery store, I'm far from the only one.
I challenge every single person that champions a candidate to speak about them in an everyday setting.
I choose Bernie Sanders.
840high
(17,196 posts)homework. Go Bernie.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Hillary has policy proposals, union endorsements, party endorsements, civil rights hero's endorsements, and is supremely qualified. She has excoriated foreign governments about human rights abuses to their faces in their own countries and has spread diplomacy and philanthropy around the globe. She has been voted most admired woman in the world 14x. She hast vast knowledge on a wide range of global and domestic issues, and is remarkable at building coalitions. And she's a proud Democrat with experience of putting her foot deep inside Republican assholes.
bvf
(6,604 posts)
"...with experience of putting her foot deep inside Republican assholes."
Looks like somebody's really good at copy-and-paste.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)You heard it from me on DU.
bvf
(6,604 posts)And I've heard plenty, btw. I like to refresh my sig line every now and then.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)My response was against someone's sexist statement. Cool that you take the sexists side.
bvf
(6,604 posts)Has it been two weeks already?
canoeist52
(2,282 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)It's not even close!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Her opponents tend to easily forget about that for some reason.
polly7
(20,582 posts)in Iraq and Libya? Many of those women formerly doctors, lawyers, teachers .... even just free to walk the streets now live in terror of being abducted, raped and murdered. Many are desperately sending their children on boats to who knows where, just trying to get them out of the horrific poverty and violence they've been forced into living because of the brutality of IS and other fanatics who've been allowed to fill the vacuum, as well as funded and supported by 'allies'. What were the results of the polls in those places? Honduras? Haiti? Syria?
How do you get such an accurate count, do you have any stats showing who was polled, and where?
McKim
(2,412 posts)Thank you Polly. It is because of her foreign policy decisions that I cannot vote for her. The Iraq War and Meddling Lybia and Syria has left this world a very sad place. I cannot forgive her for voting for a war that has destroyed many countries and killed people in the hundreds of thousands. Our country will never recover its moral compass now, we are lost, we should be deeply ashamed. End of story. To me, married to an oil brat who grew up in the Middle East, those brown people over there are very real and worthy of our respect. What happened to their right to life?
polly7
(20,582 posts)As hard as that is to say. 'We don't do body counts'. 'Collateral damage'. I knew from the second Iraq was attacked that the people there were not a consideration in any way, shape or form, and the destruction of Libya just confirmed it.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)...because we didn't stay out? Or because we aren't in, power vacuum and all that?
One thing to be sure of, when reading the screeds of hard-left negative nationalists, whatever the problem is, wherever it is in the world, it's the US's fault.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
polly7
(20,582 posts)Wtf are you talking about?
I asked if the polls for most popular woman in the world included any of those millions, or those in Iraq (yes, Bush, Cheney, Rummy, etc. WERE responsible for that, as well as all who voted to allow it), Honduras, Haiti, Syria? Did they?!?
Response to polly7 (Reply #113)
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polly7
(20,582 posts)Also, do a little studying of the history of the ruin of Libya.
ConservativeDemocrat
(2,720 posts)Maybe you're bringing up polls of people in reference to Canada. But this is a message board focused on a US political party, so if you're not supporting this post attacking Hillary Clinton, using millions of refugees as your vehicle for doing so, then you ought to be clearer.
But, regardless, if there has been miscommunication that you're walking back, I'll walk back any criticism that was thrown your way. I do still stand by what I said in general, though, for people of this mindset. The US is not to blame for everything bad that goes on in the world, and people who think that are kooks.
- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community
floriduck
(2,262 posts)But that's living in the past. I don't think Hill is very admired now based on her unfavorable ratings. But nice try.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)
.like this. Never happened with any other candidate. This week it was an African American woman gathering sigs for a raised minimum wage. She loves Bernie. Said her daughter in college did too. She said negative things about Hillary that I won't repeat here.
A few minutes later while crossing the street I heard some young voices talking happily about Bernie. I turned and saw 3 people in their twentiestalked to them for a whilethe male didn't know much about him and the two girls were giving him a lecture about how he needed "get informed about our guy".
This happens every few weeks, as I just go about.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)You start seeing your same model car everywhere? Yeah, like that.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Last edited Thu Nov 5, 2015, 02:26 PM - Edit history (1)
and encourage everybody else to vote for them, too?
Yeah. That's exactly what you do.
If I love my new car, I'm going to tell you why I like it. What features it has.
What I'm not going to do is tell you how crappy the owners of other cars are, and discuss how hateful that they are for buying a different car.
That is about as inspiring as beige, at best.
bvf
(6,604 posts)at an analogy.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Sometimes it's just entertaining to observe people's rhetoric, and to imagine how far along in school one was the last time one had heard anything so vapid and inane.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)It's a demonstrable fact that folks look for confirmation of their beliefs and disregard information that contradicts it. It's Psychology 101.
bvf
(6,604 posts)The two are frequently confused.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I am not a huge anecdote fan for all the usual reasons.
I can regale posters with accounts of all the HRC supporters I have met but it's pointless...This is a big effin country.
bvf
(6,604 posts)jtuck004
(15,882 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Same here. Just going about my daily business, almost any conversation has an easy opening to bring up a related issue that Bernie is on top of. Most people immediately connect.
I'm still surprised at how many don't really know who Bernie is. I explain how the mainstream corporate-owned media minimize him in favor of candidates who will take their campaign donations and favor their interests - but that Bernie won't take their money and owes them nothing.
Once I determine that they have internet access, I suggest they start at berniesanders.com and on Facebook, and go exploring to learn about who he is and what he stands for - has always stood for.
Only 4 people so far have not been receptive - all older white Fox "News" fans (3 male/1 female) - going on and on about the "lazy" poor, the evils of socialism, immigrants, Muslim terrorists, and fear, fear, fear.
Them, I don't waste my time on - just look at them pityingly, say "have a nice day" and move along.
[font color="purple"]Go, Bernie!
Demeter
(85,373 posts)I am willing to bet that in the end, even your older "Fox News" fans will come around...because they haven't got a prayer of liking the candidate they will end up with (if you will pardon the expression). I think Bernie can and will reach them, too!
silverweb
(16,402 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Not too hopeful about the Fox folks. They seem to have unremovable blinders on... but you never know. When the reTHUGs make serious moves to cripple Social Security, Medicare, SSI, and SDI, maybe the blinders will crack a bit and let some light in.
You're welcome to "steal" the gif! Find it and plenty of others here:
http://cosgan.de/smilie.php?wahl=14&ziel=musik
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)I believe you will find more and more people supporting Senator Sanders...right after they get to know him and understand that his policies provide the only hope for America...
Aerows
(39,961 posts)even here in dire red MS, the more people keep warming up to him. I take that as a positive sign, because they don't like anybody on the Republican side.
I am pretty certain that most people around here would vote for Satan instead of Hillary Clinton, but I endeavor to move past the frustration and ire.
We are in damn need of hope. That is what I get from everybody I talk to, and most of them agree that neither Hillary nor Republicans are the ones to restore it.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)the write in ticket on the GOP ballot. You heard it here, first
Demeter
(85,373 posts)The GOP has intimate knowledge of Satan, after all....
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Occam's Switchblade "If you can't figure out why someone did something, assume it is because they wanted to."
Priceless, and a very pointed bit of wisdom.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)silverweb
(16,402 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)He is very electable. Let's do it.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)My Bernie bumper sticker. I need to get some more gear to bring him along with me everywhere.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie is catching fire! Go Bernie!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!
ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)My co-workers--Nurses and Doctors and other healthcare workers are largely very supportive of Hillary, not a maudlin face amoung them. There are Sanders supporters as well, but they see him as 'that guy who yells a lot'. I saw a women during my morning exercise wearing a "Hillary 2016" shirt--we had a lovely conversation. Another co-worker says how her 10 year old daughter and her friends are deeply excited about a woman president.
I am *PROUD* of Hillary Clinton.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I mean... Jeeze.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)They were "heirloom" tomatoes.
They had better hold on to them because the day I buy a damn $4 tomato is the day I need to be freaking committed.
They had other tomatoes and I needed them for the salad I was making, so obviously I got the $1.28/lbs. tomatoes.
You could have knocked me over with a feather. I have never seen a single tomato I would pay $4 for.
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Thanks for the thread, Aerows.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Uncle Joe
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)about Bernie. Whether they want to hear it or not.
When you have a candidate that makes you feel like no other, you feel proud to discuss it with others, due to the importance of their vote, and their future.
There's no one like Bernie. NO ONE!!!
With that, I'll leave ya with some music.
quickesst
(6,283 posts)....believe you went to the grocery store.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)It appears from your avatar that you live in Arkansas,
It is tough to discuss Democrats in Red States.
That doesn't mean that we shouldn't advocate for a Democrat, does it?
quickesst
(6,283 posts)...born, raised, and proud. Thing is, I do talk politics, and I do advocate for a Democrat. But, there is a difference in my approach. Being from the south, you know as well as I do that there is ample opportunity to point out the shortcomings of the right-wing goons that are the real threat to this country. Although I prefer a certain candidate for nomination, if that doesn't happen, I'll gladly vote for, and support the candidate who does. I don't run, jumping for joy straight to the internet to relate an encounter with someone who hates, doesn't recognize, or is derogatory toward Bernie Sanders. Hillary and Bernie are our two best hopes to keep republicans from once again taking the reins, and finish driving this country over the cliff straight into what could be described as"Hell". I get that you don't like Hillary, but if I held your point of view, I would rather hold our true enemies at the gate, and not deprive those who follow the opportunity to advance the Democratic cause. I would not put them in a position of having to start from scratch. The beat goes on, and the world doesn't end when I do.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)We have had Democratic Governors,
and the Republicans gained the majority in our State House for the first time in 140 years in the last election.
There ARE solid Democratic roots in Arkansas.
A little money & some stumping from big name Dems during campaigns would help a bunch in winning a few elections around here.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Or maybe I should be asking where your live.
I live in a place that is not cheap, but I just bought four tomatoes yesterday (a little over a lb in weight) and they were $1.56 a lb. All the tomatoes in the store where the same price...so I guess I'm asking how much per pound did you have to pay for tomatoes?
And if what your saying is true (and your tomatoes are not the size of catelopes), why aren't you just buying canned tomatoes?
Now, please just ignore this rant and go back to your discussion of the candidates.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I bought the ones that were 1.27/lbs.
Who in the fuck buys a $4 tomato!?
Demeter
(85,373 posts)I knew a woman who lived in a hovel, and paid $1.35 for dolphin safe tuna from there, a 5 oz can (it was 15 years ago!)
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)I saw SIX Bernie bumper stickers. No others. TWO were in Idaho. Idaho.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)gets here, you are going to see yet another smiling face sporting a Bernie smile
I ordered it a couple of days ago.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)If Hillary gets forced on voters with a manipulated primary, say hello to 8 more years of Republican rule.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)for her loss. Gonna be such fun.
I think Bernie has a better chance in the GE against any gopper.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Did you have that before the PPR or is it in meomry of? It would be a great, though highly annoying, tribute DU posters could adopt to show how much we respected that poster.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)in solidarity
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)It drives me crazy, so I may not do the same, greatly appreciate the nod to that poster though. Sorry she stepped over the line, though it would not be my line if I were running this site. I hope she finds her way back.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)then I stopped even noticing it. But I know exactly what you mean.
SamKnause
(13,110 posts)I don't know this person well.
He is the son of the lady I bought my home from.
I stay in touch with both of them.
They have attended cookouts and met my family.
I see them maybe once every other year.
He noticed my Bernie sticker, on top of my tv, leaning up against my DirecTV box.
He picked it up and looked at it.
He looked at me and said, "I am a Republican, but I like Bernie".
My 2 cents.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)The t-shirt is perfect for inspiring random conversations. Ones that draw in others and connect us all. Gotta love Democracy!
66 dmhlt
(1,941 posts)You have a nice day now.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)her. She's quite unifying in that way.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)She can make you queasy with the way she turns to and fro on issues.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)"Anecdotal evidence! LOL"
But where's all the real world stories from Hillary supporters? I never ever see it.
Hillary supporters have corporately owned media to constantly point to...
But what else?
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)here in deep ol' red MS. I think they were just passing through, though. Still ...
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)2008:
The media loves to paint a state scarlet if it goes 50.0001% Republican.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)to turn it even bluer.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Me too.
Such a low bar "better than the Reug" to vote for.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)We have to find every possible way to inform others, then they can decide who to support. As it is, they are often deciding on Hillary by default. Thanks for chatting up Bernie, it's a heavy lift but with enough people helping, we can do it, or die trying.
Gore1FL
(21,151 posts)Turn the clock back to 2007, and the posts are almost all the same.
Hillary or Bernie have no delegates. Political momentum in the nomination contexts can move mountains relative to anything going on today.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)experience. I've had the same thing happen in different settings and it keeps my spirits high! I see poll after poll after poll and perhaps they're factual, I really don't know. But what I DO know is that your experience is growing each day. And if I've said this once I've said it thousands of times, I live in a place I call "white bread, Red, Red area in FL!"
So when I have these encounters I try to ask them if they know about how our Primary works here in Florida and how you HAVE to register by Party to vote in a Primary. I also do pitch in on the week-ends to make people aware of the Primary issue.
Bottom line is to get people of other parties informed about this ONE very important fact. It's crucial here!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I'm just Aerows.
That said, I agree with you and it is crucial to get people to register, tell them how, and how much their opinion matters. When you describe to people that they can be part of the process of changing the folks that lead our nation, many of them start to smile, and more importantly, believe that they can have their say.
I'm just Aerows, but I am damn sure going to make sure that my voice is heard in the election booth, speaking with strangers while going about my every day business, and where ever I can.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)keep our boots on and we need to shout loud and clear! Well, I lied... NOT gonna wear BOOTS down here, might have to find some flip flops that lace up my leg! LOL!
Aerows
(39,961 posts)And I was just teasing you
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)Ya NEVER know! I'll be back later this evening, have some work to do here at home.
Gamecock Lefty
(700 posts)are voting for Hillary.
They like Bernie OK, but thinks he's too angry and that Hillary acts like a leader and more 'presidential.'
I agree.
And after that first debate, the Benghazi hearings and polls strengthening Hillary's #s, ol Bernie is going gutter ball. Bernie - whatever it takes to win.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)when he won the presidency, after silently committing treason in sabotaging peace talks with Vietnam, that he was fortunate that LBJ kept quiet (that we now know about many years later).
Being president is more than just being "presidential", which is as nebulous as qualifications get.
And being angry isn't a bad thing, when many in this country can identify with this sentiment when viewing the state of our government now.
The Bengazi hearings were a corporate and Republican engineer distraction that was WORTHLESS for all of us, and take away from discussion of other more important issues, and distracted us from the issue of her judgement in the case of emails as to WHY THE F*K she *privatized* them that allowed for this whole mess to be created. Republicans and corporatists weren't going to make the "privatization" of her emails an issue, because that is what they WANT all politicians to do instead of having an accountable well functioning and secure government run IT infrastructure instead, that is more accountable to us.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)They were quite tasty, but I needed a fresh one for a salad I was making. There is no way in hell I'll pay $4 for a tomato.
I can't figure out if they were doing it to prank people that weren't paying attention into buying something or if they were serious.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Sure must be a TON of profit in those $4 tomatoes.
Sure people can grow for example, 300 bushels of corn on less than an acre of land and make several thousand selling it on a stand in front of their house. Or grow a couple thousand of those $4 tomatos and sell them for $2.
But crop growing and self employment is against the law in most local communities.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)When in the heck did that happen?
Now we aren't allowed to grow plants?
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)And it means nothing.
Our secretary at works supports Hillary, just like last time. Oh no, Bernie is doomed!
Two of my colleagues support Bernie. Oh no, Hillary is doomed?
A lady at my DD's school was wearing a Hillary button at the schools Halloween parade. Bernie doomed, again.
Some of my FB friends think Bernie is the bee's knees. Hillary doomed, this time.
Some of my students support Trump. One even likes Carson. We're all doomed!
Individual anecdotes mean nothing.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Dimmed not one notch.
Doubt? Not a drop of it.
Next?
Scruffy1
(3,256 posts)We can't change things by playing in their rigged games. What we have is ourselves, and getting away from the crap instilled in the American public that talking about politics is socially offensive. That is why negative advertising works. It was designed to alienate the public from voting so that a handful of the "faithful" can call the shots.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)and their view for the future. The advertising is strong, but at some point, you have to move beyond being force-fed a candidate.
You have to want to vote *FOR* them, not just against the monster under the bed.
japple
(9,839 posts)woman I talked to was complaining about how everything (esp. cat food) was going up except the COLA for folks who "paid into Social Security all their lives." I told her about Elizabeth Warren's bill to to grant a 3.9% one-time COLA for seniors. She was impressed. We both agreed that our cats are way too finicky, but couldn't decide how to best address that issue with our cats.
http://www.occupydemocrats.com/warren-files-bill-to-make-ceos-pay-for-seniors-stolen-cost-of-living-increase/
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)postatomic
(1,771 posts)It's not that difficult to do. Many towns have community gardens and I'm sure you could find someone hanging out that could help you.
#ittakesavillage
Aerows
(39,961 posts)tomato season here? I grew a crap ton of them.
You can thank the Gardening group.
postatomic
(1,771 posts)It was just a suggestion. Sounds like you have the whole grow thing down. Excellent.
Admonished? That's a defensive response. I'm not "attacking" you and I didn't set the price for 'maters. Nor did I question anything you said in your wonderful Grocery Story.