Sources matter.

[MineralMan]

When crap from Reddit's sub /r/conspiracies is taken as truth, we've really slipped a long way.

That sub is populated by 4chan types and should not be taken seriously about anything.

Sorry, but I'm not buying anything from a source as poor as that.

[NurseJackie]

1. Is it allowed? Or, is it just something that critical readers should be aware of?

[MineralMan]

2. Anything's allowed on DU if it isn't hidden by a jury.

All I had to do was look at the source of that, notice there was no name attached to it, and completely disregard it.

If it shows up with some real person's name on it, I"ll take a look at it, but that won't happen.

Some people seem to think that anything they find on the Internet that they agree with for whatever reason is true. That, to me is a huge failure of common sense.

Now, someone will probably come along and hint that I get paid to post here. While I do get paid to write, I get paid way more than anyone who would offer people money to post on DU would pay. I have never been paid to write about politics. It's not that I wouldn't mind writing about politics for money, but if I did, I'd be posting under my own name and would own what I posted.

Oh, well...

[MineralMan]

3. Make no mistake: Reddit has some decent areas where truthful writing

happens. It also, though, has a wealth of crap areas, populated by wackos and disreputable Internet denizens. Some of them come close to 4chan's most rabid areas.

Anything in /r/conspiracies is bogus from the start. Almost by definition.

[Capt. Obvious]

4. ALL SOURCES MATTER

[MineralMan]

6. Actually shit sources don't matter at all.

Internet posting areas are like leash-free dog parks. Decent people bag their dog crap and put it in the trash cans provided. Assholes leave it where it lies so people can scrape it off their shoes later. Reddit's /r/conspiracy sub is like the people who think their dog's crap should be admired by all, so they leave it where the dog craps. It's a shit source, and if you go there, you'll soon be scraping smelly stuff off your shoe and realizing that you can never quite get it all off.

[beam me up scottie]

7. Only the ones MM personally finds acceptable matter!

Get with the program, Capt. Obvious!

[MineralMan]

9. I don't have a list of Internet sources that are accurate.

I look at what's on a source and then make a determination. Did you look at what's on /r/conspiracy? It's a crap Reddit sub. Anyone can post any garbage there. You think it's a good source? Remind me to skip your threads, then.

[beam me up scottie]

11. I find your selective outrage and strawman arguments amusing.

You think it's a good source? Remind me to skip your threads, then.

[MineralMan]

17. Well, I'm glad you are amused.

I didn't intend humor in this post, but if you found it there, that's great!

[Codeine]

98. #yesallsources

This place some days.

[Aerows]

100. The butt threads have been

so damn entertaining, it's a wonder that I can stop laughing enough to take a breath.

[Aerows]

5. They only matter

when you place stock in them.

Which, obviously, is alarming for those who are getting creamed by the opposition.

I'm not talking about Bernie in this particular round. The butt issue is absolutely delightful because it is so juvenile. The instance you refer to is so apparent, nobody could possibly doubt it.

Some times, I enjoy watching people squirm within the confines of what they are allowed to say and do.

It is amazingly satisfying.

[MineralMan]

12. The kicking butt issue is silly.

That metaphor is completely innocuous and just refers to normal competition. Everyone wants to kick their opponents' collective butts. This is not like that. It's simply a lie.

[Aerows]

16. Well I'm still laughing my ass off

[MineralMan]

18. Well, Art Linkletter wrote a book about that.

"Laughter is the Best Medicine." I hope you're feeling better.

[Aerows]

21. I feel amazing :)

Thank you for asking. Since I quit smoking exactly 8 months ago today, I have had boundless energy, have been working out, and generally feel like a brand new person!

[MineralMan]

22. Excellent. I'm glad to hear it.

I really should quit smoking, too. I have been telling myself that for decades.

[Aerows]

24. The only way to do it

is to want to quit so badly that you want it more than you want a cigarette. I'm absolutely sincere in this - I'll do anything to help you or anyone get off of the coffin nails. You would not believe how much better you will feel, both in body and mind.

Best of luck to you in the journey.

[dorkzilla]

40. I lost my aunt 2 weeks ago to smoking...it was not pretty

Before that I lost BOTH grandfathers to those horrid things. I was a 1-2 packer a day for a while. I quit with the help of someone (he was a psychiatrist, no quack) who used guided imagery and taught me how to do self-hypnosis. He also slowly weaned me off them one week at a time. It was very civilized.

There are still times (stress mostly) when I get a “i could go for a cig” feeling but that fact that all it does is slowly kill you and make RJ Reynolds rich is enough to keep me off those things forever (I am now 20 years smoke free).

YOU CAN DO THIS.

[Aerows]

55. I'll be honest

If *I* can quit smoking, *anybody* can.

Horrific addiction.

I still have nightmares about smoking, and then I wake up overjoyed that I didn't.

[dorkzilla]

67. Oh my god, I have that nightmare ALL THE TIME

That I’m smoking again, and my grandfather is telling me I’m going to die and I’m like “meh, at least I’m doing what I want” and I wake up thinking “thank dog I got that $%*% monkey off my back.

It is horrible, especially the way we ritualize each cigarette (1st smoke in the morning, cig with coffee, cig before bed....). Funny how such a tiny object can control otherwise intelligent people.

[Aerows]

71. I quit drinking coffee in preparation to quit.

You can't really quit two things at a time, so I gave myself the opportunity to climb one mountain at a time.

I drink decaffeinated, unsweetened ice tea instead, and since I've always love unsweetened tea, it wasn't such a horrible transition.

Well, not for me, but the people around me ...?

[dorkzilla]

80. Well I’m no longer married to the person I was when I quit

so I hear ya!

I can even have a cocktail and not want a smoke - - something I NEVER thought I could do.

[UglyGreed]

8. Yeah like

old posts from a defunct version of DU.......

[MineralMan]

10. There's lots of good stuff over at DU2.

(especially my old posts)

I never really go there any longer. It's too hard to navigate. I used to post there, though. Then, we got DU3, and I left DU2.

I like DU3 much better.

[UglyGreed]

13. Never been there

they tell me it's nice.

[Aerows]

15. Excuse me for a moment

while I laugh my damn head off at that astute and pointed observation!!!!

[UglyGreed]

19. Snark is

contagious....

[mcar]

14. They certainly do

I cannot believe the sources we are seeing pop up here lately.

[Aerows]

20. Me either.

Like when JaneyVee linked to stormfront.

[mcar]

23. And when Sanders supporters linked to

Ann Coulter, the Washington Times, Bill Kristol and Rush Limbaugh.

[Aerows]

25. I suppose that linking to any of those

is the equivalence of linking to stormfront?

Do you *know* what stormfront is? Bill Kristol is an asshole, right along with Coulter and Limbotomy, but even they refuse to go there.

The mooney paper, I'm not sure what they will or will not do.

[beam me up scottie]

26. Stormfront members have committed almost 100 murders.

STORMFRONT

Created by former Alabama Klan boss and long-time white supremacist Don Black in 1995, Stormfront was the first major hate site on the Internet. Claiming more than 300,000 registered members as of May 2015 (though far fewer remain active), the site has been a very popular online forum for white nationalists and other racial extremists. But a series of reverses — the 2008 assertion by Black’s wife that she was not a racist, a similar declaration by his son in 2010, and the Southern Poverty Law Center’s exposure of the identity of many Stormfront funders and the fact its registered users have been behind almost 100 murders — have caused a series of problems for the Web forum. Today, Black struggles with a continuing decline in site visitors, chronic financial problems and his own health issues.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/stormfront

I agree that we shouldn't use right wing sources on DU but there is no comparison, linking to Stormfront to smear Bernie trumps everything I've seen from our side.

That's why the op is so transparent, choosing one non-offensive source and feigning outrage makes obvious poster obvious.

[Aerows]

28. Which is exactly why I spoke up.

When you smear Bernie supporters as stormfront users, you have fucked the hell up.

JaneyVee did exactly that. She got a hide for it, and then another one from an equally odious white supremacist website.

Even stevenleser abandoned that one after he "questioned" why her post was hidden, and then learned what the site stood for and self-deleted.

[beam me up scottie]

29. I think linking to Stormfront should be a bannable offense.

Especially when using it to smear a Jewish candidate.

[Aerows]

30. I agree

but I guess it is easier to just ban people that aren't in the "We love Hillary" choir.

[beam me up scottie]

32. Indeed.

[azurnoir]

33. and then learned ????

[Aerows]

66. I'm pretty sure

"What is jack shit, Alex?"

[dsc]

50. are they as bad of human beings no

are they as bad of sources, yes. You don't have to be Hitler, or worship him, to tell lies.

[Aerows]

61. My apologies, but

What is this? I don't even ...

[dsc]

78. a liar is a liar is a liar

the fact that in addition to being liars, Stormfront murders people doesn't make their lies any more dishonest than Ann Coulter's.

[Scootaloo]

38. This has happened when? Where?

YUpu are the third person I've seen make this claim, and I am 100% certain you will be hte third person to refuse to back the claim up.

[Aerows]

51. Evidence was produced in this thread

and several people saw the post.

I am 100% certain that the event occurred and attempting to gaslight us into not believing something is an epic fail.

[Scootaloo]

64. I think you're mistaking me. I'm questioning Mcar's assertion

Haven't seen any Sanders supporters linking to Limbaugh or Coulter. Just clinton followers insisting that we do it "all the time!"

[Aerows]

69. Oh, I'm sorry

You are quite right.

Oops.

[JaneyVee]

34. Whaaat? When?

[beam me up scottie]

36. In August:

JaneyVee This message was hidden by Jury decision. Hide

16. Speaking of Stormfront...

Bernie oddly enough seems to have some fans over there: (deleted link)

Literally dozens of threads on him over there. Seems he has about 50% support 50% disapprove.
A Jury voted 6-1 to hide this post on Sat Aug 1, 2015, 09:10 AM. Reason: This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=486255

I edited to delete the link from your post.

[JaneyVee]

41. Thought you meant an op.

Like how Bernie fans make op's linking to racists (Saletan, Coulter, etc.) to make their point. All this proves is there is a double standard here that is allowed because this place is majority Bernie supporters and they run the jury system. Nothing more.

[Aerows]

43. Move the goldposts much? n/t

[beam me up scottie]

44. "All this proves is there is a double standard here"

So now you're a victim of Bernie supporters because your post linking to Stormfront was hidden?

[Aerows]

47. First denies it

then defends it.

[beam me up scottie]

49. The victimhood shtick got old a long time ago.

She was sent on vacation and obviously hasn't learned a thing.

It's all OUR fault.

[JaneyVee]

58. Yes, I didn't "learn my lesson".

Which is why I linked to stormfront again. Oh wait, no I didn't.

[beam me up scottie]

60. You're complaining about how unfair the jury was.

Until you take responsibility for your actions you have learned nothing.

[JaneyVee]

63. Nope, not complaining. Just pointing out the obvious.

Whatevs.

[beam me up scottie]

65. It wasn't hidden for linking to a hate site?

[JaneyVee]

70. Carry on!

Notice how the examples I gave by Bernie fans weren't hidden though. That's called a double standard. No other way around it. Kinda like if we both fatally hit someone with our cars, but I go to jail and you get off because the jury is stacked with your friends. Double standard seems like the appropriate term. We can look into real life criminal justice system and see examples of it every day. Do you deny they exist?

[beam me up scottie]

73. You gave examples of Bernie "fans" linking to Neo-Nazi websites? Where?

Until you can provide proof that they did and their posts weren't hidden your claim that there is a double standard is specious.

Nothing our side ever posted compares to linking to Stormfront.


Nothing.

[JaneyVee]

74. Saletan and Coulter are white supremacists.

Not to mention the links to National Review and others.

Whatevs.

[beam me up scottie]

75. Which of those are listed as hate groups by the SPLC?

Which are responsible for almost 100 murders?

Specious.

[JaneyVee]

77. Funny thing is...

I had no idea what Stormfront was prior to that. Learned it from the poster I was talking to. And I haven't cared about what Stormfront is since. And remember, the op that this op is about linked to a website (Reddit) that also has white supremacy sub forums, rape forums, nazi forums, and a whole lotta other violent shit. But it won't be hidden because jury system. Oh well.

[beam me up scottie]

82. You're Jewish and you didn't know what Stormfront was?

And you didn't figure it out after visiting their website?

The fact that you're comparing it to Reddit means you still don't have a fucking clue how despicable it is to associate a Jewish candidate with Stormfront.

And you're still blaming us because your post linking to a NEO NAZI WEBSITE was hidden.


Jesus wept.


Here, educate yourself and then get back to me if you ever figure out what you did wrong:

Stormfront is a white nationalist,[3] white supremacist[4] and neo-Nazi website[5] known as a hate site.[6]

Purpose and appeal[edit]

Don Black has long worked to increase the mainstream appeal of white supremacism.[30] Black established Stormfront to heighten awareness of perceived anti-white discrimination and government actions detrimental to white people,[15] and to create a virtual community of white extremists.[7][33][43][51] Black owns the site's servers so he is not dependent upon website hosting providers.[32]
Black's organization inculcates enough white pride to make "its worldwide aspirations meaningful and socially significant".[42] Stormfront keeps the rhetoric in its forums muted, discourages racial slurs, and prohibits violent threats and descriptions of anything illegal.[30][43] Site moderator Jamie Kelso is reportedly "the motivating force behind real community-building among Stormfront members" due to his energy and enthusiasm in organizing offline events.[52] Black's positioning the site as a community with the explicit purpose of "defending the white race" has helped sustain the community over its long lifetime, as it attracts white men and women who define themselves in opposition to ethnic minorities, particularly Jews.[30]
Stormfront established MartinLutherKing.org to discredit Martin Luther King, Jr.[53] In a 2001 study of white nationalist groups including Stormfront, academics Beverly Ray and George E. Marsh II commented that "Like the Nazis before them, they rely upon a blend of science, ignorance, and mythology to prop up their arguments".[43][54]

Ideology[edit]

Stormfront presents itself as engaged in a struggle for unity, identifying culture, speech and free association as its core concerns,[42] though members of Stormfront are especially passionate about racial purity.[52] It promotes a lone wolf mentality, linking to white nationalist theorist Louis Beam's influential work on leaderless resistance and offering a sympathetic assessment of Benjamin Nathaniel Smith, a white supremacist who committed suicide after a racially-motivated killing spree in June 1999.[43] Violet Jones[who?] notes that Stormfront credits its mission to "the founding myth of an America created, built, and ideologically grounded by the descendants of white Europeans."[55] Asked in 2008 by an interviewer for Italian newspaper la Repubblica whether Stormfront was a 21st-century version of the Ku Klux Klan without the iconography, Black responded affirmatively, though he noted that he would never say so to an American journalist.[56]

In addition to its promotion of antisemitism and Holocaust denial, Stormfront has increasingly become active in its propagation of Islamophobia.[57]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)

[JaneyVee]

84. You seem to know much more about it then me, so...

I guess I'm no longer needed in this conversation.

[beam me up scottie]

85. Like I said, get back to me when you figure out what you did wrong.

[JaneyVee]

88. Hilarious.

I thought liberals were all about tolerance, forgiveness, and 2nd chances.

I got a hidden post and you're acting like I bludgeoned someone to death.

[beam me up scottie]

90. You're defending your post linking to a known hate group and blaming us for it.

Until you figure out what you did wrong there is no reason to think you understand why what you did was so heinous.

Most liberals I know would admit that they were wrong.


And I don't know any liberals who would associate a Jewish candidate with Stormfront.

[JaneyVee]

93. You just completely mangled and distorted this entire discussion.

It is obvious there is no reasoning with you in any realistic way. I'm sure you will make one last comment that I won't see because you will most likely be on ignore by then.

[beam me up scottie]

95. There is no reasoning with people who think linking to Stormfront is acceptable.

And who believe that their post was hidden because Bernie supporters are trying to silence them.

It's never your fault, is it?

[Aerows]

91. Gotcha

"I thought liberals were all about tolerance, forgiveness, and 2nd chances"

Last straw argument a rw-er makes when their goose is cooked.

[JaneyVee]

96. What?

What is your deal? I was genuinely concerned about you when you were bitten by a raccoon and even after when you weren't posting for a bit. And this is the type of BS you pull? You're really this angry over a stupid hidden post on the internet?

With all due respect, buddy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025348051

[Aerows]

103. I absolutely adore it

when a poster makes a personal attack against me and I have no fucks to give

[JaneyVee]

104. It was your op. I saw no attack. Hidden post. Shit happens.

[Aerows]

107. You might want to take a nap

You are mixing up the people you are replying to. The world won't end if you take a moment to sleep and treat yourself kindly.

[JaneyVee]

108. It was a reply to you.

That's why you were notified of it.

[Aerows]

109. ?

Okay, now I officially don't know what you are talking about - hence my suggestion of rest.

[beam me up scottie]

106. She linked to what she thought was my hidden post in another forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=775534


And even if it was real, somehow this is supposed to absolve her of the blame?

[Aerows]

110. I'm damned confused now n/t

[JaneyVee]

111. Perhaps a nap would help.

[JaneyVee]

53. Who. Cares.

It was back in August. It was hidden. Move on.

It was apparently a much more memorable event for you than for me.

[beam me up scottie]

54. I care about the fact that you linked to a hate site and are playing the victim now.

And the hypocrisy of complaining about the mote in someone else's eye while ignoring the fucking Redwood forest in your own.

[JaneyVee]

59. Thank you for #caring.

[Bluenorthwest]

68. Linking to Stormfront as part of criticism of a Jewish candidate is tone deaf at best.

Nasty.

[JaneyVee]

72. Fine. But I'm also Jewish.

Well, half Jewish. My mom is Jewish. I'll accept your accusation of tone-deaf. Served my time.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. A statement of fact. Tone deaf at best. I'm not even saying you were just being tone deaf.

You are a reckless poster without any sense of community.

[JaneyVee]

87. Do you stand outside of prisons taunting newly released prisoners?

I served my time. I've moved on. And haven't had a post hidden since.

[R B Garr]

112. JaneyVee. Please just laugh at these people trying to

get your posts hidden especially calling you reckless with no sense of "community", LMAO. Translation: you need to kiss BS' s butt more. And one of your harassers here actually referenced the Starr Report when criticizing the Clinton's...so, double standards are fine for those purposes, as we've all seen.

You are a great poster and have outsmarted them all, so they follow you just to alert. Notice no one talks about WHY Stormfront loves Bernie, which was the point. And Debbie Wasserman Schultz is excoriated by the Berniebros, but that's not anti-semitic. Only challenging Bemie is anti-Semitic.

[Aerows]

99. You are not half Jewish.

You *are* Jewish because it follows a matrileneal line.

Which makes me very puzzled that such information eludes you.

[JaneyVee]

102. No, actually I'm Atheist.

Yes, it follows the mother's faith, but my father was also Atheist.

[Aerows]

83. I swear, BNW

the shit gets deeper and deeper around here.

This pretending that she didn't link to the site to associate it with Bernie Sanders, then denying she posted it at all, to defending it, to

"It's your fault I posted a link to Stormfront."

It's unbelievable.

[Aerows]

42. Thanks for that.

She scrubbed the link so she could feign that she knew nothing of it. Which obviously, the people who replied in the thread saw, so the horse is out of the barn at this point.

[beam me up scottie]

45. Love the feature that doesn't allow hidden posts to be deleted.

And it was a cinch to find, just google her name and 'Stormfront', takes you right to that thread.

[JaneyVee]

56. Cool. Thanks for the info.

You're right, it works like a charm! http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1230&pid=41097

[beam me up scottie]

57. LFMAO!!!

Look at that post again and tell me why your linking to it is so funny.

Hint: how can a post be hidden by a jury before it was posted?




Omg, you never disappoint, JaneyVee.

[Scootaloo]

46. I like how Hillary followers are clearly not held to the ToS of DU.

[beam me up scottie]

52. I noticed that too.

What I didn't notice were her fellow HC supporters calling her out for linking to Stormfront.

[Aerows]

37. Sigh.

I guess I will have bring up that post *again* since you are pretending to be incredulous.

[JaneyVee]

48. Already addressed it.

Post was from August, a life time ago in internet age. I thought you meant I started an op using stormfront as a link. And I only used it because I was told to go hang out over there. Interesting how that comment stood. Because Bernie fans run the jury system due to majority, that's how. Meh.

[Bluenorthwest]

79. August was just weeks ago and it is stunning that you are defending even visiting Stormfront

much less linking to it. 'I was told to hang out there'? By whom? What sort of person are you hanging out with? Don't you get why Stromfront and Bernie are a very ugly mix to make? Of course you do, but you are doing the coy thing. It's transparent.

[JaneyVee]

86. Ummmm, I'm referring to the hidden post.

Please read the post. A DUer HERE snarked that I go over to Stormfront. Definitely NOT someone I would hang out with.

[Aerows]

105. What is there to snark about?

You posted a link to there. I didn't post the link. Everybody in the universe didn't post the link.

*YOU* posted that link.

Facts are facts.

[MineralMan]

113. I'm very sorry this thread was hijacked to

accuse you of something. That was not my intention. My intention was to point out the poor quality of one source. Nobody has defended the post to which I referred in any real way with information. Instead attempts have been made to divert from the topic. I'm sorry you were caught in this crossfire.

[MineralMan]

114. That was an ugly callout of a poster who was not in this thread.

I don't appreciate the attempt to divert from my topic one bit.

[sufrommich]

27. Next you're going to tell me those letters to the Penthouse Forum

aren't real either.

[MineralMan]

31. They aren't?

Well, I was at sorority party back in college, and you won't believe what happened...

[Codeine]

101. You weren't in that laundry room at the YWCA

so it's your word against mine, dude.

[MisterP]

35. too bad the chronology of each new talking point and overall approach matches what we've

been seeing/subjected to on DU/Kos/Salon

sure, it's a few days ahead--but it's a few days ahead for EACH time

[Aerows]

39. It is as predictable

as gravity.

[Bonobo]

62. Agreed.

Unfortunately, for me anyway, that same admonition is appropriate with regards to your claims as well.

[retrowire]

76. lmao

haha, i know this technique.

when fact can't be debated criticize the source.

sure the reddit thing could be false. but paid informants are a real thing. Hillary buying thousands of fake twitter and Facebook followers is a fact.

so how is it a stretch of imagination to conclude that yes, she has paid online informants?

again, can't accept the (very likely) fact, so criticize the source.

[Historic NY]

89. Exactly the person alleged is on my Twitter feed.... and no doubt doesn't

know.

[merrily]

92. It doesn't even matter if that particular story is true or not. We've all been seeing te kind of

posts described in that story right here on DU for a very long time.

It's not brain surgery to know that people, including government, politicians and the DNC, pay for posters. We do know from good sources that she's paid internet followers. It's silly to argue she did that, but never paid for internet posters. And again, we've all seen the m.o. on this board. We're adults. We can draw our own conclusions.

[aikoaiko]

94. But if the paid troll story is true, what would it mean to you?

[99Forever]

97. Well damn!

And I soooooooo care about what you buy.